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Quest Means Business
Disney to Take $1 Billion Stake in OpenAI Licensing Deal; NASDAQ Slides After Disappointing Oracle Results; Venezuela Calls U.S. Seizure of Oil Tanker an Act of Piracy. Ukraine Ramps Up Attacks on Russian Energy Assets; Klarna Partners with Privy to Develop Crypto Wallet; Flight- Tracking App Flighty Becoming a Key Travel Tool. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 11, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:18]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": There is the bell ringing on Wall Street. The market has been up for the whole solid
session and all sorts of factors underneath it. We will get to the reasons in just a moment.
So hit the gavel, sir, please!
One. Oh dear, oh! Well, that got a little bit more robust as it went on, but it wasn't much to write home about. And like the markets themselves,
which are strong and thorough, those are the markets, the events we are talking about.
Disney says its characters are coming to OpenAI as it announces a landmark deal with the company. Why?
Delta's chief exec tells me low cost travel has contributed to a lack of manners on board the aircraft. And I will speak to the CEO of the flight
tracker app that I rarely fly without using Flighty. The CEO is with us tonight.
Live from New York on Thursday. It is December the 11th. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.
Tonight, we begin with a watershed moment for Hollywood, as Disney has joined forces with OpenAI. The agreement, Disney will take a $1 billion
stake in OpenAI and it will license its iconic characters to Sora, the OpenAI's short form video app.
Not just Mickey and the Gang, but also the favorites from Pixar, Star Wars and Marvel comics. For its part, OpenAI will offer Disney generative A.I.
tools and products. Disney's CEO has described A.I. as an important moment in the film industry.
Brian Stelter is with me.
They are either, Brian, they are either being exceptionally genius and savvy, or they are dancing with the devil because they have no option.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: Oh! I thought you were going to say maybe they were digging their own grave. Yes. This is so interesting for so
many reasons, Richard.
Disney, looking at the generative A.I. arms race, feeling it has little choice but to participate in some way. It has to get on board in some way
and to do so in a way that it believes is beneficial to the media company. Disney shares up about two percent. Some investors were interested in and
enthused about this deal today, and I do think we will see other media companies look to cut similar deals.
You know, in some ways this is about having to adapt or risk being left behind, because if you're using Sora, if you're using other apps like this,
if you're engaging in this kind of new era of generative A.I. content, and you're not able to create a Mickey Mouse character or create a Buzz
Lightyear character, then you're probably going to go and create some competing company's character instead, right?
So Disney feeling it has to be engaged in this in some way, but Hollywood studios, excuse me, Hollywood unions, lots of other parts of Hollywood are
very nervous about this, very anxious about this and we are going to hear a lot about that, I think in the period of time to come.
It is also notable that Disney is going to publish some of these generative A.I. videos, fan created videos on its own platforms, on Disney+. That also
shows the pressure that Disney is under from the likes of YouTube to be creating user generated content.
So I think that's a really interesting angle here, too, Richard.
QUEST: Right, but I don't fully understand how it works. So OpenAI and Sora has the right to use these characters. Does that mean that we create a
Brian Stelter interacting with Mickey?
STELTER: Well, yes. Number one, I want to do that. Yes, I want to try that. I am a big fan of the Disney parks, so I think about how you could be in
the parks and then be putting yourself into a virtual world. There is a lot Disney could do here and this also applies to Universal and to other media
companies, including CNN's parent.
There is a lot of potential here for the entertainment industry, but we've already heard from some of the unions today that are concerned and most
notably, Disney is not allowing voice or likeness of actors so you can become Darth Vader, but you can't become one of the stars of Disney
Channel's show in Sora, you know, in this user generated app.
QUEST: Disney is notorious for guarding jealously its I.P. and its copyright of its characters, particularly Mickey and gang. So it is almost
promiscuous to then be opening it up like this, which comes back to my point from Bob Iger.
It is either a genius move by him or he is dancing with the devil.
STELTER: Well that's why you said this is a landmark agreement. Everybody in Hollywood is going to be studying this, including the detailed kind of
plan that Disney has come up with, with OpenAI for guardrails, so that these characters cannot be engaged in sex or violence or drug use.
Whether those guardrails get broken, whether users find a way around them - -
QUEST: Of course, they will.
[16:05:09 ]
STELTER: Those are going to be some of the tests going forward. There is going to be a lot of people pushing on this, trying to break it now. Yes.
QUEST: Before I leave you and let you go, any news on our on our parent? Any news on what is happening with us? WBD?
STELTER: WBD stock continues to rise on the expectation that Paramount is going to continue to pursue the company, that the bids will be sweetened,
that $30.00 a share is not going to be the final price. But right now, we don't know. And the WBD board is expected to weigh in next week, saying it
is still siding with Netflix.
QUEST: Brian, thank you very much. I always love talking about our own company. It is one of the few chances one gets.
Okay. Thank you, sir.
OpenAI has just launched its latest artificial intelligence model, GPT 5.2, sexy name. The company is in fierce competition with Google's Gemini at a
time when A.I. investors are questioning whether their bets might pay off.
Oracle shares down 11 percent after its revenue forecast fell short. Its quarterly results are reigniting fears about whether companies will
generate money from their massive investments on A.I.
NASDAQ slipped lower on otherwise strong week. Anna is with me. Anna, I heard you're talking to Max and the downside -- look the miss on
expectations was minuscule compared to the total revenues. So why is that? Why has Oracle fallen out of bed?
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Well, Richard. You're right. $16 billion worth of revenue in a single quarter is not too shabby.
Most companies couldn't even dream of that, but this is a sign of just how nervous investors are.
Any slight sense of weakness is taken as a big sign of, you know, is really affecting investors. They head for the exits. And this is because a lot of
money is invested in future potential. And Oracle is one of those companies that's investing billions in these data centers on the promise that there
is going to be a lot of money down the line. There is this massive reported deal with OpenAI ChatGPT's maker a few months ago.
Now, OpenAI doesn't yet turn a profit and that, combined with the amount of debt that Oracle has loaded on itself, over $100 billion worth, that is
making investors very nervous.
QUEST: If we look at the way the Oracle share price was there a second this isn't its first tumble, is it? Well, you know, it has had a couple of
tumbles. Larry Ellison who was for a brief second the world's richest man, it has come down. Is this considered to be Oracle's problem or, you know,
unique to Oracle or Oracle is just doing badly or is this system wide?
COOBAN: This is not a unique problem to Oracle. We've seen a lot of volatility in A.I. recently. A lot of ascending these huge -- it is getting
these huge heights, NVIDIA the chip maker becoming a $5 trillion company a few weeks ago, but they've been falling back from that since.
This is a system-wide problem, and there are a lot of these deals between these companies. It is all incredibly cozy, Richard, and we have a chart
actually showing the circularity of these deals that show that one company is investing in the other on the promise that that company will then buy
its stuff. And the problem with that, Richard, is that if one of these companies is to post bad results, disappointing results, that company
itself won't be the one that's going to send investors to the exit. It is going to be all of them that are going to be affected because all of their
financial fates are seen as being very closely tied together.
QUEST: But we know that A.I. is coming. We know that it is going to have productivity gains. We heard yesterday the Fed Chair speak on that issue.
So is this a case of, once again, the markets being too early, looking for profits and gravy now when we are really just getting started.
COOBAN: I think many tech companies -- tech company heads would say yes. They'd say just hold on for the promise of future growth.
QUEST: Right!
COOBAN: But this is very similar to what we saw in the late 90s with the dot-com bubble and eventual bursting of that bubble. The internet, you
can't say, isn't a revolutionary technology, but there were many companies that weren't posting profits, and that eventually failed to take their
share and the gains of that.
QUEST: Unfortunately, I actually remember the dot-com boom and bust and all its horribleness. Thank you very much, Anna. Good to see you.
The seizure of an oil tanker is dramatically raising tensions between the U.S. and Venezuela. The White House now says the tanker, which is carrying
sanctioned Venezuelan crude, will travel to an American port and that U.S. authorities plan to keep the oil. The Venezuelan opposition leader, Mara
Corina Machado says President Trump's actions against Caracas have been decisive in weakening President Maduro.
She is, of course, in Oslo. She has been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize yesterday. Stefano Pozzebon is in Caracas. He is with me.
It is all a bit strange, isn't it? Because you have all this event in the Caribbean, all with -- you know, with the tanker being seized. You've got
Machado over freezing in Oslo, and yet you've got Caracas and Venezuela just seemingly continuing.
[16:10:16]
STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, seemingly continuing and Nicolas Maduro, the authoritarian president of Venezuela, showing no sign or no
indication that he would be prepared to step down of power, despite the fact that he spoke with several world leaders in the last few days,
including Vladimir Putin and the Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva.
Richard, I want to go back to the seizure of oil tanker because I feel that everyone, every time I speak with you about Venezuela, we end up talking
about oil, because if you come to Venezuela, from an international point of view, it is very hard to put it into context how much this economy, how
much this government in particular are dependent on the exports of oil.
We are talking about more than 90 percent of the foreign income of this entire nation, depending on those exports according to some estimates. And
this is why I think that dramatic escalation is, you know, for lack of better words, exactly how we should describe this new tactic employed by
the United States and in particular by The White House and by Kristi Noem with the idea that the United States could indeed start seizing further
tankers, more tankers that are used to carry sanctioned black market oil, that is traded to countries that are not afraid of breaking with U.S.
sanctions.
I am talking about China, Iran, U.S., India, Russia, for example. This episode, if it is repeated and it becomes not just a one off, but actually
a pattern of seizures from the United States could well indeed precipitate the situation here, because at the end of the day, Nicolas Maduro is an
authoritarian leader who has been able to remain in power despite everything that the United States and other countries have thrown at him
because he is the guarantor of stability here in this country, especially for the coalition of powers that support him.
I am talking here about the military, the judiciary, the Parliamentary, the traffickers, the gold miners. There is a whole galaxy of nefarious
activities that are going on in Venezuela and who depend on Maduro for guaranteeing the stability.
That stability comes because no matter how many sanctions the United States have put on the Venezuelan oil, he has always been able to sell this oil
and so to guarantee a flow of money to the people who are surrounding him and to the rest of Venezuela. If suddenly that flow of money is stopped
abruptly because we see that the U.S. is now sending Blackhawk with SWAT teams rappelling down on any tankers that is leaving these shores, well,
definitely you will see that Maduro will be far more rattled than any action that the U.S. has taken against the speedboats, allegedly for
narcotrafficking -- Richard.
Stefano, I am grateful. Thank you.
In a moment, the chief executive of Delta Air Lines, he tells me why he is not worried about the competition.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:16:42]
The chief executive of Delta Air Lines says he is relying on the loyalty of his customers to weather the competition from United and American, although
most seem to agree that that's a long way back.
I was talking to Ed Bastian and we were at the Hartsfield for this, the Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, that's its official name.
Anyway, we are talking about Delta's rivals, the culture and the thorny issue of whether to wear pajamas on planes.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED BASTIAN, CEO, DELTA AIR LINES: Everyone is moving at their own pace and doing what they can to be able to develop that higher end experience.
Candidly, probably, it will take United less time to get there than it took us because we were out there as pioneering and they've seen some of the
strategy, they've seen the -- they've seen the road that we've taken. I think there is plenty of room and I am not going to judge who is where on
that path. The only thing is, I know we are going to keep the lead.
QUEST: Right.
BASTIAN: And the more we keep the lead, the better it is going to be for our customer.
QUEST: So how'd you do that? What is the secret sauce?
BASTIAN: Well, customers are not up for grabs at all times. Many of our customers are very loyal and we also talk about the loyalty to the brand,
not just the premium of the experience, and that loyalty builds on itself.
So our most loyal customers are not out there trying to compete one to the next. They're very committed to maintaining that relationship and what we
are looking to do is bring more and more customers into that committed loyalty. So it is building the lounges like we have here on Concourse D in
Atlanta. It is creating -- this month, we just certified our 1,000th plane with free fast Wi-Fi.
You listen to some of the other guys and all the press releases, you think they -- none of them even have Wi-Fi free on their planes yet, the big
guys.
QUEST: Pajamas, one, the Transportation Secretary -- when I heard what he said about pajamas and slippers and things, I think he has got a point. I
think he is actually on to something. Now, I am not saying we should all dress up in our Sunday best, but if you do smarten up a bit, it does create
a culture, an air, don't you think?
BASTIAN: Absolutely. And when we look at what happened over time, you know, back in the days when we were regulated, back 35, 40 years ago, everyone
dressed up in their Sunday best and we had steak on board and caviar.
Well, the reality was, is that the price points were so high because it was government regulated that the masses couldn't afford to fly there. And so
the planes were also half full, which no one talks about. Today, we continue to build that luxury experience and give people the ability to
enjoy and be themselves with us. But we have to -- the thing he mentioned was about civility.
You know, just because, you know, we are in a public space on board an aircraft, we have to remember that we are all there in one place together,
and our number one mission is to get there safely, is to get there with a smile on our face and to follow the instructions of our crew or the
airport's authority and we've lost that.
And I think a lot of that has been the expansion of low cost travel, you know, bringing price points so down that people, you know, during COVID,
many people were flying for the very first time because the prices were so cheap and they didn't even understand what flying -- the flying experience
was about.
So I think, you know, kind of setting that bar out there. Now, no one is going to legislate that, but setting the bar, the example I think will
hopefully help people to follow in line.
QUEST: I've asked a lot of your employees in the last few days about you and many airline employees love to attack the boss. The boss is always --
but this is not the same for you. Overall praise. Everybody loves -- everybody thinks you've got a great handle on it. You took over the
airline, you've managed it very well successfully. Youve taken them to the next level.
You're fair and you're approachable. Now, I am not saying that to make you blush. I am sure you --
BASTIAN: Of course, you are!
QUEST: I am sure you've heard all this in staff surveys before, but I would say you shouldn't underestimate the role you've played in getting Delta to
where it is today.
BASTIAN: Well, thank you.
You know, I have -- I've had great mentors. I've had great leaders, whether its Jerry Grinstein or Richard Anderson or folks that have gone -- the
fellow who founded Delta, Mr. C.E. Woolman, said, take care of your people first and they will take care of your customers.
[16:20:08]
We live in a world that's customer obsessed, and I think a lot of leaders forget the fact that if you're not taking care of your own and making
certain that they feel like they're -- I want them to feel like I am their customer or they're my customer and I am taking care of them. That then
unlocks the ability for them to go with my full backing, to do the great job they do in a very hard industry where every day they are on stage.
QUEST: I get really annoyed when airlines call me their guest. I am not their guest.
BASTIAN: Exactly.
QUEST: I am not your guest. I am your customer.
BASTIAN: You're paying.
QUEST: That's much greater than your guests, don't you think?
BASTIAN: Absolutely. You'll never hear me say that word. You'll never hear me say that word. But if our people feel like I am focused and obsessed on
serving them, as I tell them, I can't fly the planes, I can't fix the planes. I have a hard enough time getting through airports as you see, from
time to time.
But taking care of them, listening to them and being there for them and being their voice and being accessible to them. One of the little trick I
used, I started many years ago was my e-mail and my cell phone, it is all accessible, and by the way, other people don't answer it. I answer it
myself and I only have one.
And so nonstop, I am always getting feedback from people as to how we are doing, and I have people that support me in getting, you know, information
back. But the reality is, I am in touch. And I think the world where trust is one of the biggest challenges we have, it doesn't matter whether its
A.I., whether its employee relationships, whether its geopolitical. Trust is your most important currency.
And if we can maintain that trust, we are going to do great.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Chief executive, Ed Bastian talking to me earlier in the week at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson international. You get the idea.
The Director General, the D.G. of IATA, that's the aviation body that represents the airlines says that generally the industry airlines are in
good health despite looming supply chain issues, which are delaying the delivery of engines.
But bearing in mind the supply chain issues and how bad particularly as relating to engines, I asked Willie Walsh if he expects those issues to be
resolved next year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIE WALSH, DIRECTOR GENERAL, IATA: No, I don't see them getting worse, but quite honestly, at this point in time we don't see a path to
significant improvements in 2026 and maybe not even in 2027, and the problem I see at the moment is the urgency on the people who are delaying
deliveries to the airline industry, and particularly the engine manufacturers.
There is no real incentive for them because, you know, if again, if I look at G.E. engines, they've increased their margins by two points this year
versus last year. You know, if they were suffering the way we are carrying massive additional costs, then I think you'd see some real effort to try
and speed up the recovery.
But I don't see it happening in 2026.
QUEST: On this point of supply chain in this, one airline CEO said to me that he was going to an air show for the sole reason because he wanted to
be the squeakiest wheel to the OEMs for his engines. The only way to actually get engines was to go there and be a bloody nuisance.
WALSH: And that's exactly it and he is not alone. You know, there are -- every single airline CEO that I speak to is expressing real frustration
about the delays and the good thing is that we haven't accepted it. You know, we are just sitting -- we are not sitting back and saying, okay, we
will tolerate this. You know, we are pushing back and we need to push back because it is completely unacceptable that we have the disruption that we
are seeing.
And yes, there is real reasons behind some of it, but I think the OEMs could be doing a lot better than they have been doing to date.
QUEST: Are there still too many airlines? Do we need to reduce them either through consolidation or some will eventually just go out of business? Are
there too many airlines chasing too little yield?
WALSH: I think in Europe that is the case, despite the fact that we say Europe is going to lead in terms of profitability this year, you know,
there are some very big airlines doing well in Europe and many airlines struggling.
You know, if I look at IATA, you know, we've got about 370 members, 144 of those are in Europe, you know, much greater than any other part of the
world. So the industry in Europe is very fragmented. There is definitely scope for consolidation and that will help. And I think, you know, we will
see some of the smaller airlines. We've already seen them this year, I suppose this year, disappear as we go through 2026, but there is still room
for some, good merger activity in the year ahead.
QUEST: I almost hesitate to ask on sustainability, SAF and all of these sort of issues because, frankly, there is so -- I mean, the airlines are
doing what they can. They're buying as much SAF as they can. It is ridiculously overpriced and regulators seemingly have no -- I feel I am
doing your work for you here, Willie, but I just don't think that there is a question I can ask that actually advances the argument any further.
[16:25:21]
WALSH: No, I think making statements makes it easier for me than questions. But, you know, it is disappointing where we are. We are clearly not seeing
the level of production of sustainable fuels that we need. It is really annoying that we see fuel companies making greater profits on the back of
this sustainability push, because what we've seen in Europe in particular, you know, the fuel companies are adding what they call compliance fees to
drive up the price in anticipation of the extra cost that they're going to face.
So what we are seeing is artificially high SAF because of the mandates that have been introduced in Europe and I think the regulators really do need to
stand back, look at what has happened and correct it, because it is just ridiculous that we see this price gouging going on, on the part of the
people who are causing the problem, the fuel companies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: There we are. Strong and straight talking from Willie Walsh, head of IATA.
Now, it has launched a new crypto coin and now making the wallet to go with it. Klarna is moving beyond its buy now pay later roots, and its chief
executive will be with me in just a moment to explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello, I am Richard Quest. We have a lot more Quest Means Business. Ukraine says its struck a Russian oil platform in the Caspian Sea for the
first time. It is seeking to cut off Russian energy funding for the war and the chief executive of Flighty. It is the AV geek app. Look, I will
confess, I use it all the time. I will explain why and we will put it to the test with the chief. Before that, though, this is CNN and here, the
news comes first.
A federal judge has ordered Kilmar Abrego Garcia to be released from custody immediately. Earlier this year, the Trump administration mistakenly
deported Abrego to El Salvador. He was returned in June to the United States. The judge says after returning, Abrego Garcia was re-detained
without lawful authority.
Venezuela's opposition leader says her country needs the support of all democracies in the world to fight against President Nicolas Maduro. Maria
Corina Machado calls the U.S. actions in the Caribbean decisive. She is in Oslo. The new Nobel Peace laureate accused maduro of doing business with
other authoritarian regimes.
Heavy rain in Gaza are adding to the misery for those living in its tent cities. The winter storm caused flooding and health officials say one child
died from exposure in the cold temperatures. One aid agency said no building materials have arrived in Gaza since the ceasefire was reached in
October.
[16:31:20]
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says the U.S. has proposed creating a free economic zone in parts of the eastern Donbas region. He says the
idea is for Ukraine to withdraw its troops from that area as part of a peace deal with Russia. President Zelenskyy says questions remain about who
manages that territory and whether Russia would also withdraw from some areas.
Today, the Ukrainians met with European allies after giving Washington a counterproposal. In the meantime, Kyiv has been stepping up its attacks on
Russian oil platforms.
CNN's Clare Sebastian reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's been going on for an hour, says the voice in Turkish. They hit the refinery, they hit the boat.
The video, shot from a nearby ship as air defense fire rains down on Russia's biggest Black Sea oil port shows the first of three attacks on
Novorossiysk in November alone. Clear evidence Ukraine's gloves are off in its energy war with Russia.
HELIMA CROFT, HEAD OF COMMODITY STRATEGY, RBC CAPITAL MARKETS: I don't think the Ukrainians have any intentions right now of pulling back from
these attacks because they are essentially becoming the enforcer of sanctions.
SEBASTIAN: Data shows Ukraine has dramatically escalated attacks in recent months. A new concerted effort that gathered speed in August and continued
to accelerate, fueled in part by a shift from the White House as direct talks with Russia fell flat.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's let me down. He's really let me down.
SEBASTIAN: And Ukraine's strategy is not just about hitting targets at ever greater distances, but crucially now hitting the same targets multiple
times, reducing the time Russia has to repair, increasing disruption. This one of five hits on the massive Ryazan oil refinery since August.
SERGEY VAKULENKO, CARNEGIE RUSSIA EURASIA CENTER: If somehow Ukraine would manage to hit these refineries faster than Russians managed to fix them,
this indeed could render the refineries inoperable.
SEBASTIAN: And now Ukraine is expanding the types of targets. This, the fifth attack on the Druzhba pipeline since August, ferrying oil to Hungary
and Slovakia. For the first time this week, a source in Ukraine's security services says they hit an offshore drilling platform in the Caspian Sea.
And Ukraine is increasingly targeting the ships that carry the oil. This was the third attack on a sanctioned oil tanker in the last two weeks using
sea drones.
RECEP TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRESIDENT: We cannot condone these attacks.
SEBASTIAN: All of this raising the geopolitical stakes of this strategy.
VAKULENKO: I think with this, Ukraine doesn't earn any sympathies and might incur some costs.
SEBASTIAN: Russia is definitely incurring some costs. Clips spread online of cars lining up for gasoline. Ukraine's attacks triggering shortages in
some regions and Russia forced to ban gasoline exports until the end of the year. And with new U.S. sanctions and lower oil prices also upping the
pressure, Russia's oil and gas revenues, the biggest source of state income, fell 34 percent in November.
How much would Ukraine have to step up its attacks to really bring Russia to the table?
CROFT: The combination of infrastructure attacks focused on export targets and the staying power of blocking sanctions, I think that could potentially
drive Russia back to the table, but it has to be a longer duration event.
VAKULENKO: If push comes to shove, Russia could probably survive with a half of its oil and gas exports.
[16:35:05]
SEBASTIAN (voice-over): And yet with attacks now almost a daily occurrence, Russia's limits are being tested.
Clare Sebastian, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The digital bank Klarna is expanding, announcing research partnership with Privy, a leading wallet infrastructure platform. Now,
Klarna is hoping to build its own wallet after recently announcing its own stablecoin, KlarnaUSD. The chief executive Sebastian Siemiatkowski of
Klarna is with me.
Sir, it is good to see you in Stockholm tonight. What's this all about? I mean, I get stablecoins, I get crypto. How do you imagine we're going to
use it?
SEBASTIAN SIEMIATKOWSKI, CEO, KLARNA: It's funny you ask that because that was always my skepticism. You know, I always thought about like, OK, it's
great. We can put -- make some rocky motions to the central banks and threaten the monetary systems. But my mom doesn't really care. She just
wants it to be cheap, fast and safe. But I think now what we're seeing is that this technology has really matured, and it's actually allowing us to
offer it to make things cheaper, more efficient, faster. And some people also like to trade us -- trade it as an asset.
QUEST: Yes. But how? I mean, why is it cheaper, quicker, faster, better in a sense than anything? I understand the principle of a stablecoin. It's
backed by the dollar. It's, you know, there's a certain security and safety within it. I'm not sure it's an asset class, but we can argue about that
another day.
SIEMIATKOWSKI: Well, I think, yes, exactly. So stablecoin is clearly, I mean, especially if you look at the corridors between smaller currencies
like take the Swedish Sek compared to Brazilian, for example, reais, and so if you look at these different currencies then you can see that that
actually -- but really, to be fair, there is no good reason why it's costly to move money. It's not costly to send an e-mail.
It shouldn't be costly. And these technologies are breaking that apart, making it cheaper and faster. On the crypto and bitcoin, that's obviously
to a lot of people today a valid asset that they trade just as everything else and every asset, I mean, gold, all the assets that humans have are to
some degree the accumulation of the amount of people that are willing to think that it's worth something. Right? We decide what we think is worth,
and all assets work the same.
QUEST: This is an argument for another day when it comes to crypto. This is a discussion that we have to have. Look, on this, how do you expect -- I
mean, Klarna is very well known. And last time we spoke you gave me the numbers for the sheer number of people who have your cards. And it is
frighteningly large in a sense of the infrastructure that you've got. And now there's this development towards a wallet. How big do you expect this
aspect to become?
SIEMIATKOWSKI: Well, look, it actually comes back ironically now with A.I. going around. 10 years ago at that point of time we were competing with the
(INAUDIBLE), with the Stripe and the (INAUDIBLE) of the world, and we were losing. So we had to pivot. We sat down and ask ourselves, what's the
future of financial services? We said, well, at some point in time, in the future, you wake up in the morning, your digital financial system will have
analyzed your mortgage, realize you're paying too much, and on all the negotiation for you, and ask you if you want to switch to save $40. And the
only thing you need to do is say yes.
And we said, well, that's the future of financial services, just like self- driving cars. I don't know when, but eventually. And I was in San Francisco and it was amazing. So the same is going to happen to financial services
and what that meant to us already then we said, look, what do you want to be then? You want to be a balance sheet or you want to be the digital
financial system? We want it to be the digital financial assistant, but to be so it's all going to be about scale.
These industries have made a fortune, excess profits en mass. And the same thing that happened to the airlines when low cost came around it's going to
happen to banking now. And we can either just sit there and try to protect high profits too long, or we can become one of the disruptors, and that's
what we're doing. So we're taking these technologies and we're pushing ahead to make sure the number one priority for us was to be big in number
of users.
QUEST: Right. But --
SIEMIATKOWSKI: And we are now 115 million. So that was number one. And then the other one is to extend the number -- the type of services that we offer
to these customers.
QUEST: How -- one of the crucially important things about banking, of course, as you know better than anybody, is trust. Trust, security. And it
is balancing that boringness. Solid but boring with something. I always think -- I mean, the big banks, you know, the JPMorgans, the Chase. That
they've got sort of long history of reputations behind them that every time you go into something new, you're history goes with you.
Now, Klarna, you have a good history and a good reputation, and you've got to guard that jealously surely.
SIEMIATKOWSKI: Yes, absolutely. And I think actually the best way we do it is to offer affordable products.
[16:40:02]
So a lot of people talk about credit buy now, pay later. The truth is, you know, in the U.S. now we're hitting $1.2 trillion record credit card debt.
And people on average on the credit card have $6,000 in debt. With Klarna, they carry, on average, a balance of $90. So people -- and it's zero
percent interest, right? And fixed term installments, none of that revolving stuff and eternal loans. So to us we've seen that you build trust
by simply offering products that are easier to use, doesn't try to push you into debt, and that are easy to pay off and don't charge, you no high fees
or, you know, late fees of very high values and stuff like that. And I think over time that's actually paying off.
QUEST: Good to have you, Sebastian. Thank you for joining us in Stockholm. Is it very cold in Stockholm at the moment?
SIEMIATKOWSKI: It's been the worst ever. It's like three weeks of just gray and rain, which is great because we work a lot, which is bad for you
competitors out there because we work a lot.
QUEST: It's cold in New York as well, so don't think about that. All right, sir. Good to see you. Good night. Thank you.
And just a moment we're talking about aviation. Just then I'll be speaking to the brain behind Flighty. It is the ultimate companion app for avgeeks.
In fact, although it's quite distressing when it told me how much I've flown so much this year, the Flighty CEO, after the break.
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Across India, monsoons that once sustained life now flood communities intensified by climate change and the loss of natural
reservoirs. This week on "Call to Earth," we're going to follow the environmentalist Arun Krishnamurthy's fight to restore these vital water
bodies, reconnecting lakes and the rivers to people who rely on them. It's all part of the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAIN ASHER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rainy morning in Chennai. Known as the gateway to South India, the tropical coastal city,
once a tapestry of lakes and wetlands, has rapidly changed.
[16:45:03]
From 2015 to 2020, it lost roughly a third of its water. Industrialization paving over much of its natural water network.
Chennai is also the hometown of Arun Krishnamurthy, who works tirelessly to bring neglected water bodies back to life through his organization, EFI.
ARUN KRISHNAMURTHY, FOUNDER, ENVIRONMENTALIST FOUNDATION OF INDIA: This is our 19th year in 2025. We've so far touched close to 657 water bodies. This
includes lakes, ponds, stepwells across 19 states in the country.
ASHER: The scale of this mission keeps him on the road three to four days a week.
KRISHNAMURTHY: We are on our way to Hanumanthapuram, a village where EFI took on the responsibility of restoring four water bodies. When
urbanization catches up, these lakes are also a victim of it. Garbage, sewage, encroachment, et cetera.
ASHER: Arun says this is one of EFI's largest projects this year, influencing the lives of nearly 3,000 residents. He comes back often,
watching the transformation unfold and hearing how the restored water bodies are reshaping everyday life.
RAJALAKSHMI, VILLAGE HEAD, HANUMANTHAPURAM VILLAGE (through translator): This being a flat, barren, waterless lake area, the community was impacted
without water. Now because of EFI's efforts, there is a lot of water accumulation.
ASHER: EFI cleared garbage from the land, restored natural islands and embankments, and deepened the lake to increase storage capacity.
RAJALAKSHMI (through translator): The lake used to overflow during floods. Despite that, the area would never fill up. It would just escape this area.
KANNAN, ORGANIC FARMER (through translator): We used to farm only one crop. Now with surplus water availability, we have the opportunity to cultivate
more crops. Because of the double yield, our income has doubled overall.
ASHER: Their story echoes across many communities that EFI has touched and highlights a larger trend about the delicate ecology of India. For
centuries, seasonal monsoons were its lifeblood filling reservoirs like these to sustain life through the dry months. Today, these floods are
overwhelming cities with climate change intensifying rains and fewer water bodies to capture them. What remains is overburdened and polluted. A
fragile network struggling to hold back floods and also refill wells.
KRISHNAMURTHY: The greatest challenge in this 19 years of work is to definitely take everybody on board. So bringing the resources, getting the
permissions, convincing the community. All this has to happen.
ASHER: None of this would be possible without his dedicated staff.
KRISHNAMURTHY: Nicely put. Bamboo and palm seeds also we'll bring.
ASHER: Like Shri Krishna who's been with EFI for 15 years.
SHRI KRISNA MINAPALIT, CHIEF ADMIN MANAGER, ENVIRONMENTALIST FOUNDATION OF INDIA: I joined EFI when I was in school. Mr. Arun, he had come to our
school for a school orientation program. So I joined right then. I joined as a volunteer.
ASHER: Shri Krishna exemplifies the impact that youth engagement can have on shaping the next generation of environmental stewards.
KRISHNAMURTHY: Water always runs from an elevation to a deep point, correct?
ASHER: EFI often brings students into the field for real hands on work, like planting saplings so they can watch the impact of their efforts as the
trees take root.
KRISHNAMURTHY: I am of the very strong belief that nothing is happening because of me. I'm just a tiny speck of a tool in the larger plan that the
universe has.
And let's plant more. Keep coming. Thank you, thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, sir.
KRISHNAMURTHY: Thank you, thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: That's fascinating. It's a small speck in the greater scheme of things. A bit like us all.
And you can watch this weekend the full documentary, "Reviving India's Waters." It's CNN and only on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:51:36]
QUEST: It's no secret, the frequent flier. In fact, the program that we've done from so many places. One app is pretty essential in all my travels
these days. Flighty, now the Flighty app you may have heard about. It gives a huge amount of information, including not only obviously when the flight
is leaving and what gate, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, but also an entire forecast and review of my entire year.
It gives the planes' times and plans a breakdown of recent delays. And have a look at my all-time Flighty passport. Apparently I've flown nearly 2.5
million miles flown over -- I've lost 230 hours from various delays.
Ryan Jones is the founder and chief executive of Flighty.
I have to confess here, you know, a straightforward conflict of interest in that I use the app and I love the app. So, look, but I am curious. You're
not an avgeek yourself. The way this started was not because you sort of had jet fuel running through your veins, is it?
RYAN JONES, FOUNDER AND CEO, FLIGHTY: That's right. I came more from the app side and the product side. Just loving, making great experiences. And
as a nerd 10, 15 years ago when I started flying, I got -- I dug into how come these information wasn't super available? How come people couldn't
figure these things on their own? And all the information was out there, and we were kind of the people to productize it and put it together in one
-- into one thing.
QUEST: What is the thing that -- I'm just opening up the app now and I can sort of see that it's got all my flights for the next few weeks. What is it
that people actually treasure most about it? What's the one thing? Why are you different? Or I mean, obviously you'd say better, but why are you
different than, say, TripIt?
RYAN JONES, FOUNDER AND CEO, FLIGHTY: It's a great question. Thanks for asking. I think there's three main things. One is we extremely focus on
accuracy and speed. So we consistently hear that our alerts and our data is anywhere from two to -- two minutes to two hours faster than even the
airlines themselves, which is critical for people like yourself who are flying often and want to rebook, or just people who like to know what's
going on when they're at the airport.
The second one is design. We all -- the three original founders came from a product design background. And that's really you can -- if you open the
app, hopefully you can see it right away. And it's very user friendly. We don't have any ads. We don't require you to give us your e-mail address.
It's all focused on just making the best possible experience. And then the last thing is one you've already mentioned, which is the passport.
People love to just take your flights, put them in there, we'll alert you about delays or cancellations before anybody else. You can add your spouse.
They can see all your flights without you sending them back and forth and saying, I actually switched flights. I'm late, I'm early. And then it all
flows into a passport, which gives you a annual or in your case, a lifetime review to see how long you've been delayed.
QUEST: All right. Well, the thing I find most useful is this bit that actually tells me where it says overall the likely forecast over the last
60 days of a flight. And I find that particularly useful. It's quite hard to find in other parts.
[16:55:01]
I mean, yes, it is available, that information, obviously you get it from the various authorities. But it gives me a really good idea of whether I'm
going to be able to make a connection. If something is 70 percent of the time, early or early-ish, you will be unlucky if it's not. But on this next
flight, for example, I see that more often than not, it's late, which is not necessarily a good idea. This is not good.
JONES: That's right. And we also have, as of about six months ago, a new connection assistant feature. So when you do have a connection, we'll show
the exact amount of time between the two gates, show you on the map. Here's one.
QUEST: Right.
JONES: Here's where the next gate is. And then we've used the official NCT times, which is a nerdy way of saying exactly how much time the airline
will allow between connections when you're booking.
QUEST: Right.
JONES: And we show you is this, you're really risking it here. Do you have a relaxed connection?
QUEST: Can I --
JONES: You can know exactly, am I sprinting or am I walking?
QUEST: Right. Can I just ask you, at the moment you own the company, at the moment it's yours and a few others who invested, when are you going to -- I
mean, do you plan to sell to something bigger? Is this your cash out and move on?
JONES: No, this is kind of I feel like my life has been building to this moment. You know, I had previous apps and the two co-founders you mentioned
both had super applicable experience. We're all -- the two, other two of them are extreme aviation lovers. And I've been kind of indoctrinated into
it through this. But we're self-funded. We're about six years old, fully profitable, have a team of seven super dedicated people. We'd like to keep
a small team and just focus entirely on the product.
QUEST: I'm grateful to have you on the program. It's not often I get to speak to the chief executive of something I actually not only use but value
sharply. Thank you very much, sir, for joining us tonight. Thank you.
JONES: Thank you, Richard.
QUEST: We'll take a "Profitable Moment" after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment," I don't know why I care so much about this information. My shortest flight has been 68 miles, Oman to Tel Aviv.
My longest flight has been London to Sydney, nonstop, 10,500. The newest plane I've flown was only seven months old, an A-220. The oldest plane I
had flown was 33 years. And that was a 767. I've been to 175 airports. I've flown 80, and so on and so on.
The sheer amount of information this gives, I don't know whether I should be impressed or horrified, but I do know that it's just good fun to know,
since one does spend so much time in the air. But I can also tell you that that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest in New York.
Yes, I remembered it. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's profitable. You and I hopefully back tomorrow.
END
