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Quest Means Business
Unemployment Rate Hits 4.6 Percent In November, A Four-Year High; Trump Adviser, Kevin Hassett Defends Fed's Independence; L.A. Officials Give Update On Rob And Michele Reiner Murder Case; Australian PM Says Bondi Beach Attack Apparently Inspired By ISIS; E.U. Discussing Use Of Frozen Russia Assets To Help Ukraine; Crackdown On Opposition Sparks Outrage Ahead Of Uganda Election; Interview With Barnes & Noble CEO James Daunt. Aired 4- 5p ET
Aired December 16, 2025 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:18]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The bell is ringing. Closing bell on Wall Street. It has been a down session across the
board as you can see, down all the way. We've just had a bit of a rally coming up towards the end, but not much. And, Madam, please do the
business.
One, two, three solid! A solid end to a miserable day on the markets, but the events that well be talking about, let me brief you on. Any moment now,
we are going to get an update on the investigation into the murders of Rob Reiner and his wife, Michele and we will bring you that news conference as
soon as it happens.
One of the front runners for the Fed Chair, Kevin Hassett, says being close to President Trump should not count against him.
And the art of the holiday read, the chief executive of Barnes & Noble and Waterstones, James Daunt, is on the program and we have the book that you
might want to read over your festive greetings.
We are live tonight in New York. It is Tuesday, it is December the 16th. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.
QUEST: Good evening.
The U.S. unemployment rate ticked up last month to a four-year high. The November report was muddied and muddled by the government shutdown, which
prevented some of the data from being collected. Even so, it showed the unemployment rate climbing to 4.6 percent. The last time we got a number
back in September, put it at 4.4 percent.
So this report showed the economy lost about a hundred thousand jobs and gained some more, about 60-odd thousand in November. You take some and you
lose some as you can see from that chart.
But again, you're having numbers skewed by the shutdown and by job cuts in the federal government.
Jennifer Hunt is with me, chief economist at the -- was the chief economist at the U.S. Department of Labor, now Economics Professor at Rutgers
University. Let me just apologize in advance. We are waiting for this news conference into the investigation to the Reiners' murder. So I will
apologize if I have to interrupt you, so we can go live to that.
But while we wait for that news conference to get underway, let's talk these numbers. It is very difficult to know exactly what is happening on
the jobs front.
JENNIFER HUNT ECONOMICS PROFESSOR, RUTGERS UNIVERSITY: That's right. I think the best thing to do is to look over the last six months. We actually
had new information today about the last four months, and if you look over the last six months, there has been essentially no job growth, and there
are three reasons for that -- immigration, DOGE and tariffs.
So since the beginning of the year, 270,000 people have left the federal workforce. There are 150,000 fewer immigrants and if you think about
tariffs and you look at manufacturing and you look at the last six months, 56,000 fewer jobs in manufacturing, probably affected by tariffs on inputs.
And you mentioned the increase in the unemployment rate, which is a sign that the people who have left the U.S. are not simply going away and
leaving the people behind equally well off.
QUEST: You see, the difficulty for the Fed, as we heard in the last meeting, is cutting interest rates will not necessarily increase employment
because of the very reasons that you've just given. Those reasons are not cyclically adaptable, if you will, to monetary policy.
HUNT: That's right. They are in a terrible position also because although, as you know, the new inflation numbers will only come out in two days, we
do know based on the September numbers that inflation back then was 0.7 percent higher than it would have been without the tariffs, so 2.9 instead
of 2.2 percent.
And so if they leave interest rates the same or loosen them, thinking about the job side, they will also increase inflation, which will erode peoples'
wages and then there is also the factors that you mentioned. If the recent employment is falling as you're removing the people, yes, that stimulating
the monetary supply won't have the usual effect.
QUEST: So in this scenario the Fed -- we all got -- it was very clear from Powell, I thought, it is a wait and see situation at the moment, isn't it?
[16:05:10]
And they've built in three or four cuts in rates, then monetary lag now has to sort of do its business, they dare not do more with inflation at this
elevated level.
HUNT: I think that's likely, although one of the things they were waiting to see were the numbers from today, but as you say, also monetary policy
works with a lag, so they are also waiting for that. They will be waiting for, Thursday's inflation numbers. But yes, in a way I don't envy the
people making decisions on monetary policy.
QUEST: Can I just ask you, we are going to be talking about Kevin Hassett and the Fed in just a second. The concern is that he could be too, too pro-
Trump, too willing. He is about to tell us that he is not going to be. We are seeing a sort of Fed that we've never seen before if that is the case.
HUNT: That's right. I mean, of course all economists would weigh inflation versus unemployment slightly differently, but we would be very unusual to
have someone installed who is so closely related to the current administration.
QUEST: Thank you for joining us tonight. I am grateful we were able to talk to you. We've got our -- we've got our chat in before anything happened
from Los Angeles. Thank you, ma'am, for joining us.
On that story of the economic advisor, Kevin Hassett. He says the Fed has room to cut rates further. Now Hassett, of course, besides being the
economic advisor at The White House, is the leading candidate to replace Jerome Powell.
And on this allegation or suggestion that his relationship with the President, the closeness of the two would harm the Fed's independence, he
had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN HASSETT, DIRECTOR OF THE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: The job of the Federal Reserve Chair is to run the Federal Reserve independently. It is
also the job of the Federal Reserve to be nonpartisan and to focus on monetary policy, and I think that one of the things that the President has
been disappointed in is that the Fed has been quite partisan, cutting rates right before an election, focusing so much on issues other than monetary
policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, according to the President, there is another Kevin who is in the running. The other, Kevin is a former Fed Governor, Kevin Warsh.
With me is a third Kevin.
Kevin, I don't believe you're in the line for running for the Fed Chair, but you never know. You're with us. It must have been a good year for the
Kevins when they came out with that one.
Look, this was -- this was Hassett saying I shouldn't be penalized because the President likes me.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and I think you've heard him kind of come out more vehemently in the last, three days or so
talking about this idea that he might be too close to the President because you've heard, you know, people on Wall Street, other economists suggest
that that would make him a poor fit for the Fed Chair, that essentially the markets would see the Fed's independence eroding and that could potentially
lead to economic fallout.
And so you've heard Kevin Hassett come out more and more. He was on the Sunday shows on Sunday. He was out today saying that yes, I am close to
President Trump, but that shouldn't necessarily prevent me from being appointed to this top job.
I think the reason he might be doing that is some of that criticism has been making it to President Trump himself. You know, Hassett was viewed
pretty widely as a shoo-in for this job, but you're getting indications early this week that the President's mind may not be made up. He is talking
to Kevin Warsh. We also understand that tomorrow, he is interviewing a third name, not a Kevin, unfortunately, Christopher Waller, who is a Fed
Governor.
So I think it is all pointing in the direction of the President still coming up with what his pick will be. But, you know, for all this talk that
Kevin Hassett's closeness to President Trump could erode the independence of the Fed, I don't think you can look at anything President Trump has said
over the last 10 months that suggests he places that as a huge priority. You know, he has talked about firing Jay Powell. He has called directly for
cutting the interest rates, which is something no President really does before that.
So if we are talking about the independence of the Fed, I am not sure that President Trump has demonstrated that that's a huge priority of his in this
term.
QUEST: Let's just say, on this, Hassett is clearly qualified. And if the -- you know, the rubric, the President is entitled to have the person that he
wants. So it would be a very specific reason why he would not be, confirmed if that were the case, because he is most definitely qualified for the job.
[16:10:08]
LIPTAK: He is qualified and he has the President's ear, and by all accounts, he has the President's trust. I think the President --
QUEST: Kevin, can I interrupt you? Kevin, forgive me, you can see what I can see out the corner of your eye and I am grateful, sir.
Let's go to the Reiner news conference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to from the Chief of Police, Jim McDonnell from the Los Angeles Police Department and the District Attorney, Nathan
Hochman.
I just want to level expectations. We will allow some time for questions, but because of this is a preliminary investigation, still very active, it
is being filed as we speak, there is not a lot we are going to be able to say right now.
Also, if you would, please put one question at a time so that we can hear the question and answer it appropriately, so if we could have that decorum
in here.
D.A. Nathan Hochman.
NATHAN HOCHMAN, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: My name is Nathan Hochman. I am the District Attorney of Los Angeles County.
Today, I am here to announce that our office will be filing charges against Nick Reiner, who is accused of killing his parents, actor/director Rob
Reiner and photographer/producer Michele Singer-Reiner.
These charges will be two counts of first degree murder with a special circumstance of multiple murders. He also faces a special allegation that
he personally used a dangerous and deadly weapon, that being a knife. These charges carry a maximum sentence of life in prison without the possibility
of parole or the death penalty. No decision at this point has been made with respect to the death penalty. We have requested, and currently Nick
Reiner is being held without bail.
Now, before -- in announcing these charges, I also want to announce that they are just that, they are charges. Charges are not evidence. Evidence is
something that we will be presenting in a court of law to meet the standard of proof we meet in every criminal case which is beyond a reasonable doubt
to 12 jurors who will unanimously have to find that we've met that standard to prove the charges we bring to court.
Right now with respect to the process, Nick -- once these charges get filed this afternoon, Nick Reiner will be then brought to court. He is going
through medical clearance, something that everybody who goes -- who gets arrested and gets held in a Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department Jail
goes through. Once he is medically cleared, he will be brought to court to be arraigned on these charges. At that point, he will enter a plea of
guilty or not guilty.
Now, prosecuting these cases involving family members are some of the most challenging and most heart wrenching cases that this office faces because
of the intimate and often brutal nature of the crimes involved.
Rob Reiner was a brilliant actor and director, an iconic force in our entertainment industry for decades. His wife, Michele Singer-Reiner, was an
equally iconic photographer and producer. Their loss is beyond tragic, and we have we will commit ourselves to bringing their murderer to justice.
I want to thank LAPD Chief McDonnell, who is here today, along with Deputy Chief Alan Hamilton from the LAPD and LAPD Captain Scott Williams and the
entire Robbery Homicide Division, who literally has been working around the clock to gather the evidence that have led to the charges we are going to
be filing today.
Also from my office, I have Assistant District Attorney Maria Ramirez. I have Director of Specialized Prosecutions John McKinney. I have our Head
Deputy of Major Crimes, Craig Hung, and I have the two prosecutors who will be leading the prosecution in this case, Assistant Head Deputy of Major
Crimes Habib Balian and Deputy District Attorney for Major Crimes Jonathan Chung. They will bring their decades of experience to holding this murderer
accountable for his actions.
At this point, again, you will hear in the media rumors, you will hear speculation, you will hear hearsay. What I am asking everyone to do is to
rely on trusted sources. If it doesn't come from the District Attorney's Office, from LAPD, from the Coroner's Office, or from the courtroom itself,
then there is a good chance you are hearing misinformation because at the appropriate time, the actual evidence involved in this case will be
presented in a court of law. So I ask for your patience until that is done.
[16:15:10]
But again, please do not rely on rank speculation, rumor or hearsay to believe that you understand anything about what went on in this case.
I'd Id now like to turn it over to Chief McDonnell.
Thank you.
CHIEF JIM MCDONNELL, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, good afternoon and thank you all for being here today and it is deep sadness that I
address the tragic loss of Robert and Michele Reiner.
On December 14th, 2025, LAPD officers from our West Los Angeles Division responded to a death investigation at the 200 Block of South Chadbourne
Avenue, which is in the Brentwood section of Los Angeles. Upon entering the residence, they discovered the bodies of Mr. and Mrs. Reiner.
Detectives from our Robbery Homicide Division, Homicide Special Section immediately initiated a comprehensive investigation. The evidence gathered
led to the arrest of their son, Nick Reiner, who was taken into custody later that night without incident in the Exposition Park section of our
city.
Today, the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office has formally filed charges against Mr. Reiner for the murder of his parents. This case is
heartbreaking and deeply personal, not only for the Reiner family and their loved ones, but for our entire city. We extend our deepest condolences to
all of those who are affected by this tragedy.
I want to take a moment to recognize and thank our criminal justice partners. The District Attorney's Office, led by D.A. Hochman, and everyone
who worked tirelessly on this investigation. Their swift action, professionalism and commitment to justice have been instrumental in
bringing clarity and accountability to this case.
The LAPD remains steadfast in our mission to protect life and uphold justice. We will continue to support the Reiner family, ensure that every
step forward is taken with care, dignity and resolve.
Thank you.
HOCHMAN: We are now going to take some questions. Yes, right here in the front.
REPORTER: Could you talk about why you feel this case rises to special circumstances?
HOCHMAN: So special circumstances is a situation where one of the enumerated factors that lead to elevating, in some ways, a first degree
murder case to a special circumstance, first degree murder case occurs.
One of those special circumstances is called multiple murders. Here we have two, and it qualifies under the definition of multiple murders to allege
the special circumstance in this particular case.
Let's go over here.
REPORTER: How was Nick Reiner found and was there any evidence on him indicating the crime? Did he say anything?
MCDONNELL: Yes, he was found with good, solid police work, investigative tools used by robbery, Homicide and Gang and Narcotics Division detectives
with the U.S. Marshal Service Task Force involved as well. So we are thankful for the work that was done. I won't go into talking about what was
found or anything that could potentially taint the investigation.
REPORTER: Given Nick's history of drug use, was there any indication that he was under the influence at the time of his crime?
MCDONNELL: Now, thank you again. That's another question I can't touch.
REPORTER: Is there any medical illness in his background?
HOCHMAN: I am sorry. Please repeat the question.
REPORTER: Is there any evidence of mental illness in his background beyond the addiction?
HOCHMAN: The evidence -- any evidence, if there is any of mental illness for his background, will be coming out in the hearings to -- that will
occur. We anticipate again after the arraignment, the process will go through the normal process a case like this goes through.
At the appropriate time, if there is evidence of mental illness, it will be presented in court and in whatever detail the defense seeks to do that.
REPORTER: Mr. Hochman!
HOCHMAN: Yes --
REPORTER: Are you anticipating any kind of significant delay in bringing this case to trial on the basis, perhaps, that Nick may have to undergo
significant psychological evaluation, which would also give your people what they need in the way of background as to what might describe why his
actions happened the way they did.
HOCHMAN: We don't anticipate any significant delay more than is involved in a first degree murder case with special circumstances. These are some of
the most serious charges that a D.A.'s office can bring against anyone, and we anticipate that the discovery that we will produce to the defense will
be robust. It will be very involved. They will want adequate time to review it.
Again, they will want to go through every single factor that they can ascertain in the defense of Mr. Nick Reiner. So again, this will proceed
along the tracks that many of the first degree murder cases proceed. Do I anticipate it being particularly fast? No, I anticipate it being very
thorough.
Yes, right here.
REPORTER: Cause of death? Time of death? Is there any information? Can you share anything about that?
[16:20:12 ]
HOCHMAN: We are not at this time.
Yes, right here.
REPORTER: Have the members of the Reiner family helped with your investigation so far and did they provide any information or assistance
which led to Nick being arrested?
HOCHMAN: Let me defer to the Chief on this.
DEPUTY CHIEF ALAN HAMILTON, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: I am Deputy Chief Alan Hamilton, Chief of Detectives. We don't have any specific information we
are going to release at this time regarding the family's information they provided.
As we move forward, that information will be discussed in the appropriate venue, which will be the court.
HOCHMAN: Yes, in the front here.
REPORTER: For the chief, can you talk anything more about just the condition that Nick was arrested in his residence? Was he walking around?
Was he observed by the neighborhood? Like anything -- any information --
HAMILTON: So, specifically he was arrested in in public area in the Exposition Park area near the University of Southern California campus. He
was approached by the officers and he was arrested without incident. There were no indications that -- there was no indication that he was going to
resist or anything like that. He didn't flee or anything like that.
He was taken into custody without issue and he was transported to our police headquarters facility.
HOCHMAN: Take a question back there. Yes.
REPORTER: Was the murder weapon found?
HOCHMAN: He has been alleged -- one of the special allegations is that the murder was committed with a deadly weapon or a knife, as to where and how
the weapon will be -- was located or will be located, that will actually be evidence, we will present in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got two more questions. Two more questions.
HOCHMAN: Let me take a question over here.
REPORTER: Can you give us a timeline of when you think the murders occurred? Because now we know that there was an altercation on Saturday
night at a party. Do we know that this happened Saturday night at a party. Do we know that this happened Saturday night or maybe Sunday morning?
HOCHMAN: I will defer to the chief on this one.
MCDONNELL: Yes. We don't have. I am sorry. We don't have that kind of specificity yet. We are awaiting the coroner to be able to try and
determine as best they can at this point, time of death.
REPORTER: Chief, who called 911.
REPORTER: Chief McDonnell, who called 911?
REPORTER: Mr. Hochman, can I ask --
HOCHMAN: Let's -- we will take the question back there.
REPORTER: Yes. Can you tell us who called 911?
HOCHMAN: Chief, if you --
HAMILTON: Okay, in terms of how the Los Angeles Police Department became aware, it was a request from the Los Angeles Fire Department who responded
to the scene first.
We responded to their request for assistance at the scene of the incident. Our initial West L.A. officers that responded determined that a crime had
occurred, and they immediately notified our Robbery Homicide Division. They responded and they have taken over the investigation since that point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, everybody.
HOCHMAN: Should we take one more?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One more.
HOCHMAN: One more question. I will take it right here.
REPORTER: So talk about sensitive evidence, but based on the evidence collected to support these charges, did that include an admission by the
defendant to the alleged crimes?
HOCHMAN: So any statements made by the defendant at any point in time would be the type of evidence we will be presenting in court. Let me take -- I
will take one last question right here.
REPORTER: Sorry, I have a question.
HOCHMAN: Hold on one second. I just identified this gentleman.
REPORTER: Oh, I thought you were pointing at me.
HOCHMAN: Sorry.
REPORTER: Do we have an estimated time for completion of the autopsy and the information coming from your office and to the detectives in the case?
HOCHMAN: We do not have the estimated time that it will take. We know that they are working on it expeditiously, but as to when they deliver it, we do
not have that estimated time.
I will take that one last question back there.
REPORTER: Sorry, I was just wondering. I know these types of cases are especially difficult. How much do you take into account what the family
wants when it comes to charges when you're dealing with a domestic situation like that? And does that factor into whether you will go after
life with parole or possibly the death penalty.
HOCHMAN: In these cases, like any of these cases, we will take the thoughts and desires of the family into consideration in making our decision.
Thank you all very much.
QUEST: So there we have a news conference. The headline of which is pretty straightforward, that Nick Reiner, the son, who is alleged to have murdered
his parents, has now been charged with first degree murder of both his parents, multiple murders.
Elie Honig is with me to go through, and, I mean, we didn't get a huge amount of information other than there are these special allegations. A
knife was involved. It is multiple murder allegation.
[16:25:05]
And there was no trouble or no issue when they came to arrest.
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Richard, so I think you already hit on what the biggest takeaway is, confirmation of what we already knew
and suspected, which is that Nick Reiner has now been charged with the murders of both of his parents.
Now, as to those -- he has been charged, by the way, with a first degree murder in California, which means it was intentional and deliberate and
premeditated. In other words, it was not, according to the prosecutors, arguably some sort of act of self-defense or some sort of accident. So none
of that is surprising.
As to those special circumstances, legally and the D.A. was asked this question, but he kind of dodged it. Legally, what those special
circumstances, the fact that there were multiple victims, the fact that a knife was involved, what they do is they make the case technically,
technically eligible for the death penalty, not just life without parole but the death penalty.
However, California has had a moratorium on the death penalty since 2019. To me, there is very little chance they actually do seek the death penalty
here, but technically those special circumstances could make it eligible to seek the death penalty.
QUEST: What do you think they are not telling us in a sense? They obviously know a lot more, I mean, indeed, for example, the way in which Nick Reiner
was located, the fact there was no struggle. The question of the murder -- what from your experience, what are we not being told here?
HONIG: Well, they are very explicit about what they're not telling us. To their credit, they were clear about, we will answer this, we won't answer
that. You know, in a case like this, from a prosecutor's perspective, you have to balance competing concerns.
On the one hand, as the D.A. acknowledged, there is enormous public interest in this case, in this murder and they do want to make sure they
can tell the public something about it. On the other hand, you have to be very careful from a prosecutor's podium about what you say.
First of all, you don't want to do anything that could jeopardize or undermine your investigation. Second of all, you have the bizarre, but I've
been in situations somewhat like this, situation with an intrafamily murder where you have victims, you have people who are part of that family, the
surviving brother, the surviving sister, other relatives who are also victims in this case and so you have to be extra sensitive. They are the
victims of the decedents. They are also related to the actual defendant who is now facing the possibility of life behind bars without parole.
The other thing is, Richard, you don't want to say anything from that podium as a prosecutor that might poison a jury, that a defendant might
point to down the line and say, judge, they made this outlandish, inflammatory statement, true or not, that the whole world watched on CNN
and that could have poisoned our jury pool. So you have to be careful of that as well.
QUEST: I am grateful, Elie. Thank you very much indeed. Elie Honig joining us.
HONIG: Thank you, Richard.
QUEST: The European Union wants to use frozen Russian assets to help Ukraine. So it is all very complicated the way they're hoping to do it. The
objections that are taking place. I mean, it really is a labyrinth of regulations and procedures. We will discuss it in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:31:22]
QUEST: Australia's prime minister says the father and son accused of carrying out this weekend's massacre of Bondi Beach were motivated by
Islamic State ideology. The police say two homemade ISIS flags were found in a vehicle registered to the younger suspect. They also say the gunmen
targeted Jewish Australians celebrating the first night of Hanukkah, killing 15 people.
CNN's Will Ripley now reporting on the newly released video of the attack.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New dash cam video reveals the first minutes of the Bondi Beach massacre and two
bystanders bravely trying to stop the attack. A husband and wife confront the older gunman, the father, Sajid Akram, leaving his car, rifle in hand.
Watch closely, the man in the purple shirt drags the attacker to the ground, wrestles for control, rips the gun out of his hands, swinging it
almost like a bat. The gunman takes another rifle from his car, opening fire on the man and woman. Australian media is identifying them as possibly
the first two victims of Sunday's attack.
The video also reveals a crucial piece of evidence. Look at the windshield. You see that black flag bearing what appears to be the logo of the Islamic
State?
ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: It would appear that there is evidence that this was inspired by a terrorist organization, by ISIS.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Investigators are now looking beyond Australia. Police say the shooters recently traveled to the southern Philippines, a region
long plagued by ISIS inspired violence. Philippine officials say the pair arrived on November 1st for military style training, leaving nearly four
weeks later. Returning to Australia just over two weeks before opening fire on Bondi Beach.
More than 24 hours after the shooting, Bondi Beach remained an active crime scene. Yet police tape blocking off the whole area. There's this outdoor
cinema where people basically drop their stuff and ran. The whole area kind of feels eerily frozen in time.
NAVEED AKRAM, BONDI BEACH ATTACK SUSPECT: This will come for you on the day of judgment.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Video is also emerging of the gunman, the son, Naveed Akram.
AKRAM: Allah will reward you for whatever action you do in his cause. Inshallah, this will save you on the day of judgment.
RIPLEY (voice-over): A Sydney based Islamic Street preaching group confirms Akram appeared in a handful of videos in 2019, handing out pamphlets during
public outreach. The group says Akram was just 17 at the time. They insist they've had no contact with him since.
In a statement, the group says it's horrified by the attack and appalled by the actions of both father and son.
LACHIE, SUSPECT'S FORMER COWORKER: You're allowed to have strong views, but to go and do that, like, it's just wrong.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Lachie told CNN affiliate Nine News he's a former coworker of the younger shooter he calls Nav. He says Nav quit his
bricklaying job about a month ago and often talked about his love of hunting.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It looked like he could handle a gun.
LACHIE: Yes, yes, well, he had, like, we used to talk about going shooting down at Crookwell and he'd say -- he actually said to me once, I said, oh,
we should go for a shot down there one day. And he goes, oh, I don't know if that'd be good for you. And I thought, well, OK, that's a bit weird.
But, yes, he was a bit of a weird cat.
RIPLEY (voice-over): Will Ripley, CNN, Bondi Beach, Australia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now the bystanders confronting the gunman, the ones you saw in that report, they are Boris and Sofia Gurman. The family members say their 35th
wedding anniversary was coming up. Sophia's 62nd birthday would have been tomorrow. A GoFundMe has been set up to help the family. So far, more than
$217,000 has been raised.
[16:35:00]
Other victims of the massacre, now we know, includes a 10-year-old girl named Matilda. Her family emigrated from Ukraine. She's believed to be the
youngest of the victims. And Alex Kleytman, an 87-year-old Holocaust survivor killed while shielding his wife from bullets.
European leaders are holding talks this week on how to pay for Ukraine's reconstruction. The diplomats say they're making progress on using frozen
Russian assets for the purpose. President Zelenskyy was at the Hague, where he helped launch an international claims commission that's aimed at getting
compensation for Russia for the damage that's been done to this country during nearly four years of war.
I'm joined by Nicolas Veron, senior fellow Bruegel and the Peterson Institute for International Economics.
We look at this use of assets that have been frozen. Sir, it is the most mind bogglingly difficult thing that I've come across. I mean, first of
all, they're not confiscating. There's some sort of loans or interest free loans being structured, and then you've got to give guarantees to the
Belgians against -- I mean, it's very complicated this. No wonder it's taking a lot of time.
NICOLAS VERON, SENIOR FELLOW, BRUEGEL AND PETERSON INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: Well, European decision-making is often
complicated, but this is actually a big deal. What's at stake is providing as much as 210 billion euros, that's about $250 billion, for Ukraine, for
its defense, for the functioning of its government over the next few years.
So what is at stake beyond the complexity of the financial engineering is finding money for Ukraine while at the same time respecting the
international rule of law, because the European Union is committed not to confiscate these Russian assets, even though Russian is behaving, to say
the least, very aggressively with European countries these days. That's the balance they're trying to find, and I think it's likely that they will find
it.
QUEST: So the idea is that you get the money and you make interest-free loans, which are then used, but at some point, one imagines, many days,
many months, many years in the future, Russia gets the money back in some shape or form.
VERON: Well, we don't know how this war ends. And depending on how the war ends, whether Europe and Russia are on speaking terms at this point,
whether Russia pays or not reparations to Ukraine as a compensation for all the aggressions that they have done to them, depending on many different
parameters, you have to factor that in, in the financial engineering of this transaction.
And I think the schemes that is proposed by the European Commission does that. It preserves different options for the reimbursement of the loan
going forward. But more importantly, it makes all that money available for Ukraine's defense at a time when Ukraine really needs it.
QUEST: A lot of us may just say, hang on, just take it. I mean, just use the money. At the end of the day, you know, we're all sort of dancing
around it. But Russia launched the war. There are hundreds of thousands of dead. Ukraine's economy is in the toilet and is an absolute basket case.
And whatever peace is finally put together, Europe will never be the same again. And we're all worried about whether Russia gets miffed over this
money.
VERON: Well, it's simply not true that Ukraine's economy is a basket case. Travel to Ukraine is safe in many regions, and you will see that they have
kept their economy going despite the Russian aggression under very difficult conditions. So I don't think you can really say that. But more
importantly, these are foreign reserves of the Russian central bank. They belong to the Russian people. Even if there is regime change in Russia,
these money will remain the property of the Russian people. And I think, you know, as long as we're not, as Europeans, the European Union is not at
war with Russia, we have to respect that.
Otherwise, every time we have a difference with a country, we can say we confiscate the money. That's not the recipe for sound global financial
system.
QUEST: You see, you've just put your finger on the "Alice in Wonderland" nature of this, sir. You just said as long as the European Union isn't in
quarrel with Russia, but the European Union is in quarrel with Russia. That's exactly what this is all about.
VERON: It is. The European Union may have differences and quarrels with Russia, and it's actively helping Ukraine. Let me remind you that the
European Union is providing funding for Ukraine's defense at a time when the U.S. no longer does that. What the European Union is not is at war with
Russia, and war creates a different legal situation that would indeed call for different measures.
So there are many political differences in the world. The U.S. has political differences with many countries. They don't confiscate their
assets held in the U.S.
[16:40:05]
QUEST: I'm grateful, sir. Thank you for joining us tonight. Kind of you. Thank you.
Now, to Uganda, in a moment, where many are hoping for political upheaval. We'll be in Kampala, as the country prepares for a general election.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: A month ago, before Uganda's general election, the musician and the opposition politician Bobi Wine is once again attempting to unseat
President Museveni. Now the elderly president has been in office since 1986.
CNN's Larry Madowo joined Wine on the campaign trail, and to see for himself the obstacles that the challenger faces.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the man seeking to remove President Museveni from power after 40 years. He has incredible support
among the young people.
As Bobi Wine arrives, so goes a crowd. There is nothing like it.
(Voice-over): Bobi Wine wants Ugandans to sing a new tune. The musician turned politician is running for president for a second time. Nearly twice
his age, President Yoweri Museveni is also running for a seventh term. When the former general came to power after a civil war in 1986, Bobi Wine was
just 4 years old.
ROBERT "BOBI WINE" KYAGULANYI, UGANDAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I believe that General Museveni largely views Uganda as his personal property, as his
family property, and he views us as slaves.
It is our time to change our future.
MADOWO (voice-over): Bobi Wine accuses security forces of using violence to stop him from campaigning. At the stop in Northern Uganda, supporters
formed a protective shield around the candidate as military officers whipped them. One of his closest aides was wounded.
[16:45:02]
KYAGULANYI: Look at what the police and the military are doing to us for no crime whatsoever.
MADOWO (voice-over): The Electoral Commission condemned the incident that is now under investigation. He says more than 450 members of his party and
supporters have been imprisoned during the campaign, others tortured or disappeared.
KYAGULANYI: For some people have been shot dead at my rally, and I know the regime has me as the main target.
MADOWO: Why won't you be allowed to campaign freely?
KYAGULANYI: Well, I believe it is fear. It is fear that General Museveni knows that he has no support. Every time I go out to campaign, I know that
somebody is going to be beaten, somebody is going to be killed, run over by the police, shot with live bullets, and all that.
MADOWO (voice-over): The U.N. Human Rights Chief has condemned widespread arbitrary arrests, detentions and the use of unnecessary or
disproportionate force against the opposition. CNN filmed hundreds of police, military and special forces at Bobi Wine's rallies in the capital
Kampala. They blocked him from using some roads, beat up some supporters and tear gas bystanders.
Everywhere Bobi Wine goes, there are dozens of police officers, soldiers. It always ends up in a scuffle. Right now they're blocking his way from
coming into a rally venue. And that's tear gas. Before he's even inside, we're hearing that sound like live shots, tear gas in every direction. Tear
gas in every direction. Tear in every direction. It's really become a chaotic scene. And this happens at every Bobi Wine --
(Voice-over): Police told CNN that they were forced to use tear gas here to disperse people and clear a busy intersection. They have repeatedly denied
that they're specifically targeting Bobi Wine or his campaign.
RUSOKE KITUUMA, UGANDA POLICE SPOKESPERSON: We all benefit from coming out of this election with the most minimal damage on individuals and property.
MADOWO (voice-over): There are six other candidates running for Uganda's top job, but January's election is largely a rematch between the president
and the pop star.
In a free and fair election, can you beat President Museveni?
KYAGULANYI: If 2021 was a free and fair election, I would be president already.
MADOWO: Will this be a free and fair election?
KYAGULANYI: This is not an election to begin with. This is war.
MADOWO (voice-over): Uganda's electoral commission has asked law enforcement agencies to exercise restraint and stick to the law while
dealing with candidates.
Larry Madowo, CNN, Kampala.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Now, in just a moment, books, books and more books. Earlier this year, I sat down with James Daunt, chief executive of two great
booksellers, Waterstones and Barnes and Noble, and they had some -- he had some very ambitious plans for 2025.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES DAUNT, CEO, BARNES AND NOBLE: I think that's a facile narrative, which has been -- has actually proved to be wrong that Amazon hasn't killed
off the good bookstore at all. And bookstores are now thriving both independents and chain booksellers. We're going to open 60 stores this
year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Sixty. How they're faring, after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Regent Street, Oxford Street, London is looking at its very best, as indeed at most places. Carnaby Street, by jingo.
Curling up with a good book and a cup of holiday cocoa is one of life's great pleasures. That and listening to the king's Christmas message. Now
Waterstones has named its Book of 2025. It is "The Artist" or "The Artist and the Feast," in some places, by Lucy Steeds. Waterstones' head of books
called it a gorgeously escapist novel, which is a perfect opportunity to talk to my next, guest, James Daunt, who is the CEO of Waterstones and
Barnes and Noble.
When we met earlier in the year, sir, which is a great privilege and pleasure for us to be with you, you were talking about all the stores that
you were going to open, and I mean, how is it all going?
DAUNT: We opened a lot. We opened 67 in the United States and 10 in the United Kingdom. So a decent number. In fact, more than has been open for a
very long time. And I think back in the early 2000s.
QUEST: Good, good. That's a lot of stores, which just, I mean, wonderfully proves that, you know, talk of the book's death is greatly exaggerated, as
they say.
DAUNT: We've been having a very, very nice time, really, since COVID. I mean, we were doing fine at Waterstones before COVID, but less so at Barnes
and Noble, which was in a big mess. But since COVID and we've opened up -- we've had three straight years of nicely growing sales and don't seem to
show any sign of that dropping away.
QUEST: Each time, James, I read about your philosophy, which is essentially make the place look nice, have nice people serving, you know, and being
nice, and have good products and good books. It all sounds so, you know, as we used to say when growing up, it all sounds so bleeding obvious, and yet
at the same time, it's the simplicity that makes it so difficult to get right.
DAUNT: I think it's that interesting. The bookshop teams to get on and run their shops to their best effect, and, you know, understand who their
customers are, understand how the team works, the dynamics within it. And as you say, present a nice shop, get the right books in front of your
customers, and be really nice and pleasant to them.
It is quite simple, but it's difficult for corporate booksellers to sort of stand back and let that happen. But I'm quite good at it. The less I do,
the better it goes.
QUEST: And as we look towards next year and beyond, what do you think is the corporate structure going to be for Waterstones and Barnes and Noble?
DAUNT: Well, we're, I mean, on a corporate level, we'll carry on doing what we're doing, which is increasingly learning from each other, understanding
what the best books are, working closely with publishers and investing in our shops, both in opening new shops, but also in investing and making
smarter and better and altogether more pleasant our existing shops. And we'd be doing a lot of that.
QUEST: Are you wrestling with A.I.? And I mean in terms of the books, the content it's creating, and have you made peace with it?
DAUNT: No. We try and keep it outside of our world. We go to great efforts to not have it represented in our Web site. But, you know, some of it
creeps through because the Web site has everything on it. But we have, I think, vanishingly little inside our shops and assume that that will remain
the case. But, you know, as ever, we sell the books that publishers publish. And above all, we sell the books that our customers, our readers
want to read, and should that involve A.I., well, you know, as long as it clearly states it's A.I., we won't have a problem with that.
QUEST: And this book by Lucy Steeds, which I'm just sort of discerning whether to settle down with over Christmas, worth it?
[16:55:09]
DAUNT: You certainly should. It's lovely. I mean, it's just one of those really good books, and you stick your nose in it and you're not going to
take it out again. It may make you a little bit antisocial over the Christmas period. So perhaps wait until, wait until everyone else is doing
something else.
QUEST: Oh, don't worry about that. I'm happy to be antisocial with a cup of cocoa and a mince pie.
James, thank you very much for joining us. May I wish you and your family all the very best, sir, over the festive season. Thank you for joining us
tonight. It's great to have you.
DAUNT: And to you and yours. Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you.
And on Friday, QUEST MEANS BUSINESS comes from Highclere Castle. We are very much looking forward to that. I'll give you more details of it.
Highclere, of course, is Downton where Lady Carnarvon, as you know on this program, several times, she was always inviting us. And this year she said,
come along, come to Highclere. We've got the Christmas tree up, the mince pies, and there might be a bit of a dram or two for those that want a wee
toddy, and so we said, yes, thank you very much.
We will be with you, Your Ladyship. I think she might have bitten off more than she could chew. Anyway, we'll be at Downton on Friday, and you'll be
there, too. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'll have a "Profitable Moment" after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment." Hassett, Waller or Warsh? Sounds like a firm of lawyers, but it's not. They're the three main contenders that we
believe to be the next chair of the Fed. And today, Kevin Hassett, who's the economic adviser, basically came out and said, listen, I am my own man.
Fed's independence is important to me. And, you know, don't penalize me because Donald Trump likes me. But what's interesting about it is he is
saying essentially that previous Fed chairs have lowered interest rates for, or raised rates for political purposes, not based on strict monetary
policy and therefore that the cuts he would want to see are because the U.S. economy needs monetary easing.
I'm not sure many people agree with him on that outside of a relatively small circle. Inflation is still too high and shows no sign of really
coming back to target. Yes, unemployment is rising, as we saw from the recent numbers, but that's for other reasons than anyway. Monetary policy
wont deal with that.
So was it Kevin, or is it Kevin or is it Christopher? We'll find out in the new year. It'll be a good one to watch.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this Tuesday night. I'm Richard Quest in New York. I will be in London tomorrow. And whatever you're up to in the
hours ahead, you know the rest. I hope it's profitable.
END
