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Quest Means Business
Davos Begins With West In Turmoil; E.U. Considers Trade Bazooka In Response To Trump's Tariffs; USA House's Prime Promenade Location Grabs Attention; Schneider Electric Leveraging A.I. For Energy Efficiency; At Least 40 Killed In High-Speed Rail Collision; Edelman: Insularity Has Emerged As Next Crisis Of Trust; Oduwole: We Are Witnessing A Renewed Global Order. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 19, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:16]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": U.S. markets are closed for a federal holiday, Martin Luther King Day. In Europe, well,
as you can see on the screen, it was a down day. Worst losses were seen in Paris. All the markets were lower.
And as we go through the program, you'll understand why. The main event that we are talking about tonight. Europe is readying its trade bazooka as
President Trump threatens tariffs over Greenland.
Davos begins with the Western turmoil. WEF president tells me the Old-World order is over, whatever that means.
And you'll hear from CEOs on Europe and the U.S. on the escalating trade battle. Telefonica, Schneider Electric and Edelman are all with me tonight.
We are live in Davos. It is Monday. It is January the 19th. I am Richard Quest and yes, we will show you the snowman later. I mean business.
Good evening.
We begin tonight here in Davos. A week of turmoil. The U.S. and its NATO allies are now trading threats. People here say it is the worst it has been
since the 1940s or earlier. As leaders here were making their way up the Swiss mountain. President Trump was stoking the flames of a trade war with
Europe over his desire to acquire Greenland.
He wrote in a letter to Norway's Prime Minister that he no longer feels bound to think purely of peace after failing to win the Nobel Peace Prize.
It comes after Mr. Trump said he would impose new tariffs on European countries unless a deal for Greenland is reached.
Keir Starmer, the British Prime Minister called the threat completely wrong.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: And so any decision about the future status of Greenland belongs to the people of Greenland and the Kingdom of
Denmark alone.
That right is fundamental and we support it.
The use of tariffs against allies is completely wrong. It is not the right way to resolve differences within an Alliance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now Europe is considering a range of responses. It is also thinking of its trade bazooka, the E.U.'s anti-coercion instrument. It was created -
- the ACI, as we will call it from now on -- it was created in 2023. It was China that was in mind. It allows the bloc, a range of measures to include
actually shutting off access to European markets, imposing export controls, et cetera, et cetera.
They would have a particularly severe effect on the U.S. tech industry and companies that operate in Europe.
Joining me is Gillian Tett, "Financial Times" columnist, a member of its Editorial Board.
Did you ever think -- you and I have been around this table a long time?
GILLIAN TETT, EDITORIAL BOARD CHAIR AND US EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "THE FINANCIAL TIMES": Absolutely.
QUEST: Did you ever think we would see NATO allies threatening each other like this?
TETT: I mean, I think we've done probably about a dozen Davos at this point and the answer is, this is the craziest Davos we have ever been to, not
just because of the logistics but just because of the scale of threats, counter threats and the sense of people just do not know where we are going
to be in three months, six months' time.
Maybe this will blow over like so many of Trump's threats, but maybe there is talk right now about us sliding towards serious conflict.
QUEST: Which you see, if it does blow over, let's take the best-case scenario. It blows over. The damage has been done. The trust, which was
already evaporated from Venezuela, from the earlier threats of tariffs, the whole trade policy.
TETT: Yes. I mean, as any family therapist would say, faced with a dysfunctional family, once trust is broken, it is very hard to restore. And
the problem right now is there is a sense that the transatlantic relationship is, if not completely broken, then seriously frayed. And
putting that back is going to be very, very hard.
QUEST: Listening over the weekend to those like Scott Bessent, Europe is weakness, America is strength. Europe will eventually give in. They won't
have the stomach for the fight. That's what people are saying here, that Europe -- I don't want to use the word capitulate, but that Europe hasn't
got the wherewithal to see this out.
TETT: Well, that is the big question right now. I've just come from a dinner, and there were a number of people there saying, well, in fact,
there is going to be a deal cut for Europe essentially to give Greenland to President Trump --
[16:05:08]
Maybe in exchange for some support in Ukraine or something like that, but Europe just has not got the strength. However, the question is -- the
question is, though I've also been speaking to some European leaders today, and what they were saying is that this time actually is a bit different.
There is a sense of red line being crossed and so the question really now in the next 24 to 48 hours is will the European leaders come together and
actually show sufficient resolve to stand up to a bully and to try and punch back?
QUEST: But then who is the person that stands up to him? Because as long as you've got a commission and the council and this and that.
TETT: It is really going to boil down to Macron, Starmer and Merz, those are the three key figures at the moment. And the reason is this, if Europe
hits back with some kind of retaliation, tariffs on goods are not the critical issue. It is really about services.
Digital services and financial services -- for that, you need the British involved. You probably need to have France and Germany working together
very closely. So, the key question is, can you get a joint front from the British, French and Germans together to talk about services, not just
traded goods?
QUEST: All right, well, you get a chance to join our board. We decided -- look, we decided we'd had enough pessimism. So, the question we are asking
this year, and also most people wouldn't want to answer just how bad the situation we are in. What gives you hope?
TETT: What gives me hope?
QUEST: Right here. Come on. Choose your color.
TETT: Okay, all right. Im going to choose red because everything is red.
QUEST: Yes.
TETT: It is realism.
QUEST: Oh wow!
TETT: Because here is the issue. Europe has been living, frankly, in Cloud Cuckoo Land for too long. And if nothing else, there is a silver lining on
these horrific events right now, it is twofold.
Firstly, it actually is making Europeans wake up and realize they need to get their act together and come together and show strength. And secondly,
you're beginning to see elements within the Republican Party, within Trump's entourage, actually beginning to say, maybe this is not right. Why
are we doing this to Greenland?
QUEST: It is good to see you. Have a good Davos, as best you can.
TETT: Thank you.
QUEST: There you have the wording that of the day.
Now --
TETT: Thank you.
QUEST: The Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said Europe is too weak to guarantee Greenland's security. Speaking on NBC News, he said only the U.S.
is powerful enough to deter Russian or Chinese aggression.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT BESSENT, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Make it part of the United States and there will not be a conflict because the United States right now, we
are the hottest country in the world. We are the strongest country in the world.
The Europeans project weakness. The U.S. projects strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: So there you are, Europe -- the U.S. Treasury Secretary. I am just trying to paraphrase what he says.
Nic Robertson is in Nuuk in Greenland. He joins me. Now, you must be watching the events taking place elsewhere with something approaching agog
and amazement.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, it also sounds -- I listened to Scott Bessent a little bit like a paler version of Stephen
Miller just a week or so ago, saying this is -- you know, the iron laws of the world and the power projects, and there is that sort of "Game of
Thrones-esque" quality to the terminology used.
Frankly, that scares the living daylights out of people here. They are worried. They're not cowering and they're not crouching and they had their
protests at the weekend, and they had their unity as the Prime Minister said today and they do feel that they have this unity and backing of
support in Europe.
But to your last guest's point, they worry about the realism. They worry about whether or not Europe will find that it actually doesn't have the
stomach to go all the way toe-to-toe, more out of diplomatic field into something worse with the United States.
But I think the gut sentiment at the moment here is -- and I've got this from business execs here who know Steve Witkoff and know folks like J.D.
Vance in The White House and actually approve and appreciate some of the sort of business first policies and attitude of President Trump. They still
feel, the United States is not going to walk away with Greenland. That's where the sentiment is here right now.
QUEST: Nic, the difficulty is how everybody rows back. Greenlanders really don't have much. I don't want to be disrespectful. They're caught in the
middle and don't have much say in that sense, because it is now really, as you said, the "Game of Thrones," the battle between the two.
ROBERTSON: Look, I think the rhetoric is loud, the anger is loud. This is the biggest potential rift or we are witnessing the biggest rift in recent
history between the United States and the European Union. It is not done yet and this is a red line that is set by Denmark at the moment.
[16:10:17]
Look, this is why people are worried because they don't know which way it is going to go. They worry here that they are going to wake up, and quite
literally, there might be United States troops here tomorrow and then they find that they are Americans all of a sudden.
But to me being here and of course, Greenland is very disconnected from the rest of the world and I think that isolation creates perhaps a false
perception of how they can be separated from the realism that might descend upon European countries, but the way that this is being framed at the
moment, that President Trump has to have this for security, Europe right now stands looking at having part of its western flank and its eastern
flank.
Ukraine lopped off by President Trump and genuinely a worry about where does it stop after that? What does Putin decide to do? So you may find
realism actually, is Europe really putting its foot down and this may have some way to run yet.
QUEST: Nic Robertson, I am grateful. Nic Robertson who is in Nuuk in Greenland, where it is 7:10 in the evening. Thank you.
Now, the economic and possible military threats that are flying in the face of this year's theme of Davos' spirit of dialogue, which almost sounds like
it is laughing in the face of the reality.
Here at the World Economic Forum, for the first time, its CEO, Borge Brende told me, this theme is more important than ever.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BORGE BRENDE, CEO, WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM: I think dialogue is a necessity, not a luxury. So, we are trying to get the key people here. We have more
than 65 heads of states and governments here to even find common ground in a time where everyone looks after their own self-interest.
QUEST: Isn't there an element of the emperor's new clothes about it? We all know that a lot of the troubles today stem from the policies of the United
States, and particularly Donald J. Trump, even today, his letter to Norway's Prime Minister, considering your country decided not to give me
the Nobel Peace Prize, I no longer feel an obligation to think purely of peace. Why does Denmark have a right of ownership? There are no written
documents -- I mean, it is -- how do you have dialogue with somebody who writes this?
BRENDE: I think if we are going to find solutions on Ukraine, Gaza, also Sudan and the big challenges that we are faced within the world, we have to
try. But, you know, we can only bring the horses to the well. We cannot force them to drink the water and it doesn't seem like they're very thirsty
today.
QUEST: And that's the problem.
BRENDE: It is. But we are more like a glass half full than half empty organization, so we will continue to try, but we are now operating in a new
context. The Old-World order is not there anymore, and we can see the contours of a new one. But hopefully it's not a jungle growing back.
We have to fight for some rules and ways of interacting, and the start is dialogue.
QUEST: Let's talk about WEF itself. Obviously, since Professor Klaus Schwab left and you've had the investigation and there is no wrongdoings, but WEF
itself now has to work out how to chart its new course, don't you?
BRENDE: We are not a multi-lateral organization based on memberships from countries. So, the way that we are impartial, I think we still can bring
people together. We have the Chinese Vice Premier, probably one of the most influential in China and then we have Donald Trump, but we also probably
here will have six out of seven G-7 leaders.
QUEST: Do you think there is a possibility that the organization became arrogant? Became hubristic?
It sort of threw its weight around, in a sense, and believe we are WEF, we do what we like in a sense, and it has learned its lesson. It is about
membership. It is about, you know -- nobody has given you the right to exist.
BRENDE: So, I think we need to be humble in this new context, but we also have to be ambitious because we will need to push the envelope to try to
recreate some dialogues. But I think, it is important, as you indicate, the World Economic Forum has never had a mandate from countries.
We are not the U.N. We are a membership-based organization.
QUEST: I am suggesting it forgot that.
[16:15:00]
BRENDE: So you know, I want to look forward and what we are -- this can now be our strength in the new context since there is trust in our platform.
But, you know, we are not a fixer. We are an enabler on our platform. I think that is very important to underline.
QUEST: The one concern -- I am walking around the Congress Center last night, it has got bigger, it feels bigger. But I wonder whether talking to
the point that you've just said, do you have to refocus back to that core mission?
BRENDE: So, I think we have to innovate at the core, I totally agree. But we are not bigger in the sense that we only have or we do have 3,000
participants that we have had in the last years, but we have now upped our game on the level.
We have now the technology people back. You know, we have also Jensen Huang and NVIDIA here, we have Tim Cook and Apple, they haven't been here for
many years. And then we have also on the head of states and governments, we have higher representation.
QUEST: Let me put this down and we decided to be optimistic this year. The question is what gives you hope? Write your answer on the board.
BRENDE: Wow.
QUEST: It could be one word, a sentence.
BRENDE: You know last year, we were so worried that the geopolitics would kill economic growth and the economy is still growing pretty strongly, like
the U.S. economy, we are discussing whether it is going to be hard landing, soft landing, and there is no landing yet, even with all the turmoil. So I
would say the economy.
QUEST: Come on!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The economy, stupid! That's my words, not his and that's what you'll be seeing as we put on our board here in Davos and we will show you -- we
will try to, as I say, have a bit of optimism about it all. Goodness knows, over the next few days, we will need a little bit of hope.
Now, this is roughly I think my 25th or 26th Davos. I've lost track over the years and there is nothing else really like it. And if you want to know
why people come back year after year, take a look at this moment from my live stream on CNN All Access this morning.
The experience was something that could only be described as "A Davos Moment" --
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: And the thing about Davos is you never know who you're going to meet. For example, hello!
KEVIN RUDD, AMBASSADOR OF AUSTRALIA TO THE UNITED STATES: How are you handsome?
QUEST: How are you sir?
RUDD: I am alive.
QUEST: That's a good thing. Sorry, we are just live streaming at the moment. Good to see you. This is the Ambassador of Australia to the United
States.
RUDD: Good to see you. Because I am Australian and diplomatic and it is not a non sequitur. I won't be saying anything.
QUEST: Good to see you, Ambassador.
He is, of course, also the former Prime Minister of Australia.
Oh, and look at this! Good to see you! Head of the World Bank.
AJAY BANGA, HEAD OF THE WORLD BANK: Hello!
QUEST: There we go. You see, you know that bit -- where is that part in the world where they say if you sit there for your life, you'll meet everybody?
BANGA: Yes.
QUEST: THIS is it.
BANGA: This is the place.
QUEST: How are you, Mr. Chair.
BANGA: I'm very good. So nice to see you again.
QUEST: Busy days?
BANGA: Yes.
QUEST: Busy days.
BANGA: Lots of things.
QUEST: Good to see you.
BANGA: See you on the course of the day.
QUEST: Absolutely. Absolutely.
So there you are, you see. You've had the former Prime Minister of Australia, the president of the World Bank, by the way, he is also the
Ambassador from the United States. And that in a nutshell, better than anything else I can show you is why you come to Davos.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: And I call them "Davos Moments" because you just never know who you're going to meet.
I mean, you could meet for example the Chief Executive of Telefonica, the Spanish telephone company. I guarantee you, you will meet him after the
break.
Donald Trump's tariff threats are fueling uncertainty for European companies. So, we will have his take on the current situation? QUEST MEANS
BUSINESS live up the mountain tonight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:42]
QUEST: Oh, I love a bit of yodeling. Unfortunately, we haven't got a lot of snow as you can see from there. We might get a bit later in the week, but a
bit of yodeling, bit of snow and a whole heap of trouble on a mountain. That's this year's Davos.
And the U.S. influence is already pervasive at this year's conference. President Trump will be here Tuesday, speaking on Wednesday and very
likely, possibly maybe on the promenade, he will visit the USA House.
Now, the USA House, which seems to be a first, stands out. It is prominent. You can't miss it. Well, I know because I went to take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: There are big houses and small houses. Along the promenade, everybody seems to be here, and this year there is the USA Davos House,
right at the top of the promenade.
America's presence is impossible to miss.
But you might wonder why now?
THOMAS CRAMPTON, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, NARRATIVE ALPHA: So this is the free evangelical church of Davos, a landmark of Davos and just a few
meters from the security zone leading straight into the Congress Center.
QUEST: Correspondent to correspondent, am I making too much? Youve got Donald Trump and Greenland. Our hemisphere, Venezuela, U.S. marching round
the world. And then all of a sudden, we have a presence in Davos that we've never seen the likes before. It looks as if it is all coordinated and
orchestrated.
CRAMPTON: So this is not an initiative of this White House or this administration. This is an initiative that began in the last administration
by a private U.S. citizen who is very proud of the United States and wanted to show a U.S. -- a unified U.S. presence here, which made the U.S. the
first OECD country with a so-called "house" in Davos.
QUEST: With houses serving as platforms for business, identity and politics, it feels sometimes as if the attention has shifted from the
Congress Center, where the official business takes place to the promenade.
EDIE LUSH, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, HUB CULTURE: I think that when you walk down the promenade, you see where the power is so South Africa still here, but
remember when they used to just have the bar at The Belvedere? Now, they've got their own place.
Last year, we had Indian states. They all had their own place on the promenade. Now, it is all about the Middle Eastern states. We've got Saudi
House, Qatar House, we've got the UAE House.
QUEST: Does that -- isn't that just a product of who can spend the money? Does it give them real power to have the presence there?
LUSH: There was one year when everybody was crypto. It was crypto blockchain -- all of that has totally disappeared and that was what
dominated the conversation. So yes, it is where who has the money? It is also where the information or the intention and all the attention is
flowing.
QUEST: There are other newcomers to the promenade, Nigeria House.
OMOWUNMI IMOUKHUEDE, STRATEGY AND EXECUTION LEAD, NIGERIA HOUSE, DAVOS: I think we need to take it up a little bit.
QUEST: Having put the finishing touches, this is the first year the country has had such a presence.
IMOUKHUEDE: We are bringing a piece of Nigeria all the way out here to Davos, and we want everybody to sort of experience Nigeria in its way.
[16:25:09]
And understand our culture a little bit better, get to know our people.
QUEST: So, it's not just a place to come and enjoy your Nigerian booze.
IMOUKHUEDE: No, you're going to have that, you know, and you're going to have Nigerian jollof as well. It is a place for you to come and understand
all aspects of Nigeria and what Nigeria stands for as of today.
QUEST: And so the scene is set. The messages are clear. WEF 2026 is about to begin. Who knows what happens next?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The issue, of course, is how to deal with everything when Trump's latest threats are creating such uncertainty for European executives.
My next guest is Marc Murtra. He is the chairman and CEO of the Spanish telecommunications company, Telefonica.
Good to see you, sir.
And let's just begin.
MARC MURTRA, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, TELEFONICA: Good evening to you.
QUEST: Let's begin properly and correctly with condolences for those who lost their lives in the Spanish train disaster today.
MURTRA: Thank you very much. My heart and our hearts go out to all of those trapped in this horrific accident and to their families and friends. It is
terrible what has happened.
QUEST: And obviously, you know, for a company like yourselves, which is essentially the backbone of telecoms in the country, the ability to provide
services, assist the emergency services, have communications for those that need to know is crucial.
MURTRA: That's exactly right. We have activated our emergency team, have moved our mobile equipment there, and our assistance in every way the
authorities ask us. And actually, the zone is now -- has now got good coverage. So, we are supporting in any way we can all the emergency
services operating there.
QUEST: So, let's turn our attention to here and the difficulties. You've come to Davos as a senior executive, well, one of the most important
companies in Europe. And you find that we are in this bizarre situation vis-a-vis the United States where, you know, you have assets and you have
strong relations over there as well. How do you manage this? How are you balancing this?
MURTRA: So, we believe we are in a very new era where Europe is going to have to take very seriously the idea of strategic autonomy. So, we are in
an era where after 25 years of all these huge digital products that have been created that include hyper scalers, search engines, system operators,
cybersecurity and even artificial intelligence, and all of these technologies have been created in the U.S. We need to replicate these
technologies in Europe.
QUEST: Can we do that? I mean, the impossibility, my word, not yours, of replicating it, where clearly, we can't even agree on which national heroes
or champions to promote.
MURTRA: Yes, so it is very difficult, but Europe has the GDP. The instruments are there and the diagnosis is there. There is unanimity with
regards to the Draghi Report. Now, we need execution, which is a big deal, which is a big deal.
But can it be done? We see that China has jumped in 30 years and created all of these technologies. So, it can be done. Will it be done is a
different question.
QUEST: But it had to be done requires leadership and the different branches of the European community do not lend -- let's take a look at the bazooka,
the trade bazooka. Could be a month, three months before it could be used. It could be quicker.
What I am saying is, do you now sense that urgency to make the system work better?
MURTRA: So to make a drastic change, you usually need to be one step ahead of an emergency or one step after the emergency. And right now, I think we
are in the middle of the emergency. I think the sense of urgency is starting, but it is not quite there, but the sense of emergency if I might
say, it is not only for leaders, but it is for opinion makers and it should be therefore citizens also.
QUEST: Right, on that point, the Googles, the Metas, the hyper scalers, which are creating such data demand, demand for electricity and all of
these other things, do you see them as fair game in a trade battle if Europe has to do this? I mean, because part of the bazooka is to go against
them.
MURTRA: Yes, so I don't read it as fair game or not fair game. I believe that Europe has a future and Europe has to lead its own way, now that we
have a new relationship with the United States.
[16:30:02]
And with that, Europe has to analyze its own assets and see what assets the United States has and we do not have tech giants.
So, we need to see these wonderful, innovative, gigantic tech companies as companies that are part of the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Right. OK.
Now, come over here, sir. Choose your -- whoopsie-daisy. I got levelled with ludi (PH) You can't really bend down in the cold. It all gets very
unpleasant.
Go on. Choose your color, sir.
MURTRA: Green.
QUEST: Of course. Why not? What gives you hope?
MURTRA: One thing gives me hope, and I think it is what has transformed humanity for the better.
Reason.
QUEST: Oh.
MURTRA: Yes.
QUEST: Well, that's very philosophical.
MURTRA: Well, reason led the enlightenment. Reason has changed humanity. And whatever may people might think, reason is still a powerful instrument
to sway opinions.
QUEST: I am so glad that you are with us tonight, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
MURTRA: Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you very much indeed.
MURTRA: Thank you, sir.
QUEST: Another European business facing potential fallout from Donald Trump's tariffs is the French multinational Schneider Electric.
Now, you may not have heard of it, but it provides far to homes, businesses and data centers. The CEO, Olivier Blum joined me and told me A.I. will be
the key to achieving energy efficiency.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OLIVIER BLUM, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, SCHNEIDER ELECTRIC: A.I. is what takes us from a technology standpoint to the next level of digitalization.
We, Schneider Electric, I can tell you, we said 10 years ago, the world will be more efficient from an energy standpoint. The day you have
electrification everywhere, automation, digital.
A.I. is helping you, really, to bring the full solution to your customers. So, now, if I go in your direction, A.I. means more compute. More compute
means more energy. But this is what helps us, Schneider towards the next level of energy intelligence. So, on one side, of course, it's an
attractive market for Schneider, because there is a lot of infrastructure to be built.
On the other side, we are the first one to benefit from A.I.
QUEST: But this is the difference between smart solutions, in a sense, and intelligence solutions.
BLUM: You are absolutely right.
In the past, we thought automation and digitalization would make energy smarter. Now, when we say intelligence, imagine your home. You have an
electrical panel somewhere in your home. One day, if your home is completely connected, we can extract the data and we can put A.I. agent to
make sure we manage your consumption. We save up to 20 to 30 percent of your energy consumption.
QUEST: But we're -- but we are spending such huge resources on these data centers, which may or may not be necessary. But we don't have the fuels
necessary without resorting back to fossils to create all of this. And the United States seems to be hell bent on taking us back towards greenhouse
emissions.
BLUM: You know, the good news of any intelligence, you have a large part of energy generation that come -- can come from decentralized energy. That
could represent 30-ish percent of energy in the world today. By leveraging digital technology, you can make energy more flexible.
So, you don't need even to go to fossil fuel to meet the demand of the data center in the next 10 years. We have been, you know, white paper that
demonstrates what could be the scenario.
QUEST: Are you concerned, as a CEO, about what's happening in the United States at the moment?
BLUM: As multinational, we like to unite people. We are one company delivering solution to our customer. So, we are always concerned, not only
in the U.S., when there is things that create uncertainty. And of course, the multiple our world in which we are since a couple of years is creating
huge uncertainty.
QUEST: The core point is that the United States under Donald Trump seems to be heading in a totally different policy direction than anything we have
seen before, and that's created a level of unease and business risk that we have not seen before.
BLUM: Yes. You are absolutely right. I've been in business, you know, for 32 years. I've been living for 20 years of my life in China, in India. Now,
I'm based in Middle East. I see that. You are right, but that's not new. We had those uncertainty coming from different part of the world.
Now, we are going to a different level, again, which is not easy when you are leading a very large company. Now, I can tell you that create also
opportunity for multinational to find a different recipe on managing your company, and that creates opportunity to be different in the market in
front of our customer.
QUEST: You don't feel that you have just been told your world is flat.
BLUM: I see a huge opportunity for multinational to build a different operating model. I feel an operating model where we go to next level of
regionalization. We have been all teach that globalization was the answer. I think it's wrong.
Now, whether it's a U.S., India, Middle East, China, or whatever, we are going to -- into a world which is more fragmented.
So, it's for us, multinational to become more regional and to be more agile in this new environment. And my job is not to be in politics. My job is to
create value for my customer, my employees and my shareholders.
QUEST: So, that's a very, very honest way of saying you will have to live with whatever the weather.
[16:35:03]
BLUM: Absolutely, but that's a reality.
QUEST: Choose your color.
BLUM: Green, because, you know, Schneider is committed to green and sustain --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes. Don't worry. Even as I say, chose a color, I thought what a stupid question.
BLUM: You knew which one I would take for sure.
QUEST: Right. What is giving you hope?
BLUM: Technology. And I believe technology can bring progress for whole, and that's my belief.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Technology.
Coming up next, Nigeria's Minister of Industry and Trade. We'll talk about what the country's first year at Davos in terms of Davos house means for
its economy.
I wonder if they yodel in Nigeria. What a do now, been a yodeling for you. Welcome to Davos. It's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, live stuck up a mountain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. Together, we have a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, and Nigeria's trade minister will be here. Corruption is a thing
of the past, she tells me, in her country.
And Richard Edelman, it's that time of the year. The trust barometer is going to tell me why society is moving beyond grievance and now has reached
insularity. So, he says --
We'll get to it in just a moment, because this is CNN. And before Richard Edelman comes along, we have the news as this always comes first.
The Danish Foreign Minister says U.S. President Trump can't go further down this road in his push to take over Greenland.
Mr. Trump is not showing any sign of backing down on his demands. Officials from NATO, Denmark, and. Greenland, met on Monday to discuss what they are
describing as collective security.
Spain's Prime Minister is promising to find out the cause of the country's worst train crash in more than a decade. We now know, at least, 40 people
have died on Sunday, when two high-speed trains collided near Cordoba.
[16:40:06]
The crash overturned several carriages on both trains.
And Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has declared three days of official mourning in Spain.
The iconic fashion designer Valentino Garavani has died. Valentino dressed the rich and the famous for more than four decades, from Jackie Kennedy and
Audrey Hepburn, to Julia Roberts and Jennifer Lopez. Valentino retired from the fashion industry in 2008. He died at his residence in Rome. He was 93
years old.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Now, let me give you more details on the tragic train crash in Spain. The country's prime minister has vowed to get to the truth of what
happened, as families grieve the loss of their loved ones.
Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has canceled his trip here to Davos. He was scheduled to give a keynote speech later in the week.
Pau Mosquera reports from Adamuz, Cordoba in the scene of the crash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAU MOSQUERA, CNN SPAIN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A high-speed train collision in southern Spain, the country's deadliest rail disaster in more
than a decade. Dozens were killed and many more injured when two trains collided at speed near the town of Adamuz.
Officials say a northbound high-speed train operated by private rail company Iryo, was traveling from Malaga to Madrid with 371 passengers on
board when its rear three carriages derailed and slammed into the front of an oncoming state operated train.
The impact violent, both trains overturned, sending some carriages plunging down an embankment, according to news agency, EFE.
Video verified by CNN shows passengers scrambling out through windows, others climbing onto the roof to escape. Rescue crews worked through the
night in near total darkness, cutting through twisted metal to reach those still trapped inside.
Survivor, Anna (PH), was pulled from the wreckage through a shattered window by fellow passengers who had already made it out.
ANNA (PH) (through translator): Some people were fine and others were really bad, and we had them in front of us and you could see them dying and
you could do nothing.
MOSQUERA (voice-over): Abdulrahman (PH) said he rushed to the scene after learning of the crash, searching desperately for his sister-in-law, Amir
(PH), who was traveling on one of the trains.
ABDULRAHMAN (PH) (through translator): They say they don't know anything and there are people who are missing and suffering. We went to the civil
guard and they also don't know anything. They are doing DNA tests to find out where she is, but they don't know anything about her.
On top of that, we are here with her little girl. We are tired and haven't slept.
MOSQUERA (voice over): Spain's transport minister says the cause of the crash remains unknown. Noting the collision happened on a straight stretch
of recently renovated truck.
OSCAR PUENTE, SPANISH TRANSPORT MINISTER (through translator): The accident is extremely strange. It happened on a straight stretch of track.
All the railway experts who have been here today at this center and those we have been able to consult are extremely surprised by the accident
because, as I say, it is strange. Very strange.
MOSQUERA (voice over): Andalusian officials warned the death toll could rise. Forensic teams work to identify the victims, as families anxiously
wait, fearing the worst.
Pau Mosquera, CNN, Adamuz, Spain.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: This is CNN. We'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:46:22]
QUEST: Oh, you got to laugh. That's why you pay your electricity bill. We are here at the mountainside (PH) in Davos city, the start of the World
Economic Forum.
I wish I had more snow to show you, but I don't. We might get a bit later in the week.
Now, our next guest is, I was going to say a tradition. Richard Edelman, the trust barometer. It wouldn't be wet if we didn't have the trust
barometer, because it measures society's attitude towards powerful institutions, and it warns.
Now, look at that. That tells us trust is dangerously low.
According to the survey, we've moved beyond grievance, where people are angry at elites. In our sense, we have reached insularity and unwillingness
to cooperate with people who have different worldview.
Richard is with me. Good to see you, sir.
RICHARD EDELMAN, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, EDELMAN: Hey, pal.
QUEST: This is really serious stuff now, because the trust barometer, which, by the way, people are quoting, to me here, more and more people are
quoting. But they are saying the evidence of its truth is what we are seeing say, for example, from Donald Trump.
EDELMAN: So, I think the observed truth is we are narrowing our friend groups. We are narrowing our information sources. We are becoming hardened
in our attitudes. We have moved from polarization, which is political, to grievance, which is demonstrating, to now a solid acceptance of the truth
of being divided.
QUEST: Right. But that is very difficult to reverse, because it's hardening.
EDELMAN: So, I actually think that business has to take this very seriously, because you see a huge rise in nationalism. In fact, like 30
points difference between a domestic company and a multinational company in trust. Also, you see A.I. aversion, like, in developed countries, two-
thirds of people say, I don't want A.I.
Lastly, you see a huge decline in optimism about the future. Literally, not a single developed country has over 20 percent belief that their families
are going to be better off in the next generation.
QUEST: Right. So, but the CEO of Telefonica standing just there, the Spanish telecoms company, he is basically saying that one of the problems
in Europe is we have to build our own large tech companies.
The world has become too reliant on the U.S. Too reliant on the U.S. companies. And what this trust barometer shows is that when it turns
against you, you are left naked.
EDELMAN: But insularity is also a psychological state. We are narrowing our world view. We are having fewer sources of information. And what we need to
do is have my employer actually step up and convene. Be a trust broker, get people to talk, not try to change their minds, but have them discuss these
issues at least within the four walls of the company. And then, we should build trust from the bottom up.
QUEST: Doesn't that require bravery and courage?
EDELMAN: It does. And I actually think business has it. We have had our heads down for the last 18 months, and we waited for the storm to pass, but
that time is up. Business has to take this very seriously. It's the only institution both competent and ethical. And when you realize that business
has this privileged position, business has to lead.
QUEST: Is anyone listening?
EDELMAN: CEOs are listening because they are seeing their workforces really discombobulated. One of the side effects of insularity, in fact, is they
won't follow the leader. If I don't agree with you on your values, the workplace doesn't work that is inherently dysfunctional.
QUEST: Come over to join me at the board. Let me get the different colors. You can choose which color you are going to go for. There we go.
What gives you hope, Richard? Choose your color. Oh, there we go. Black one. It's rather nice.
[16:50:03]
Oh, (INAUDIBLE). History.
EDELMAN: Yes.
QUEST: But that could be good or bad.
EDELMAN: For me, the history of mankind is we have challenges, and we surmount them. And I believe that we are going to get optimism back.
I think that A.I. is going to pay off, and I think that trust will be restored.
QUEST: I hope you are right, sir. Good to see you as always. And thank you for the trust barometer.
EDELMAN: Thank you.
QUEST: Thank you, sir.
Now, as we continue tonight, trust is rising in developing countries like Nigeria, you are going to hear from Nigeria's Minister of Industry and
Trade and why she is optimistic and see what she puts on the board.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: So, earlier in the program, we were privileged to bring you Nigeria and its first house here at Davos. It was meant -- well it is going to help
attract global investment and strengthen the Nigerian reform agenda.
Here, I spoke to the Minister of Trade and Investment and industry, Jumoke Oduwole about a renewed sense of trust in the Nigerian economy, where all
the indicators, she told me are moving in the right direction.
JUMOKE ODUWOLE, MINISTER OF INDUSTRY, TRADE, AND INVESTMENT, NIGERIA: The growth is over four percent and projected to continue growing strongly by
the World Bank, not us, highest in over a decade. Inflation has been halved between 2024 and 2025. Several economic indicators.
But what I would like to even showcase is that the investors, Nigerian businesses, the domestic investors, are reinvesting into the economy across
key sectors, and you also have international capital rushing in for a key project.
QUEST: Do you believe and can you say that the trade -- the environment, the business environment is more transparent, that there is less
corruption, that it is more open?
ODUWOLE: I can say that it's slow work. You know, I worked on business climate reforms for nearly a decade, So, I know that it's a sustained
intervention, indeed. That's why I got this job.
And so, when you think about, for instance, trading through the ports. We have a single window project that's going live at the end of this quarter.
When you talk about investors coming in, the decisions that they are taking are based on the fact that they can do business with the Nigerians.
QUEST: We talk now -- I mean, we cannot avoid the issue of tariffs and the United States and the difficulties.
I mean, how difficult is it now for you?
ODUWOLE: Well, you know, to be honest, we are staying the course.
[16:55:00]
The United States remain our strong strategic partners. We launched a commercial investment partnership in June last year. U.S. businesses work
very closely with Nigerian businesses. And, you know, businesses just want to do business.
QUEST: Do you worry the deteriorating global situation at the moment?
ODUWOLE: You know, what we are witnessing is a renewed global order. I think every country has to look at what is best for them. We look at
Nigeria first.
QUEST: Isn't that new global order also a race to the bottom?
ODUWOLE: Only if you let it.
If you are reactionary, yes. But if you are focused, you have a plan, and you are executing. You see the Nigerian government, last year, we signed a
CEPA, our first Comprehensive Economic Partnership Agreement with the UAE. We've been cultivating that relationship for quite a while. You have seen
us in Brazil, you've seen us in the U.K. So, new friends, old friends. The point is that we need to look at what is important. We need investment for
our infrastructure.
We need a market access for our normal exports. And so, we are focused on what it is that we want to deliver.
QUEST: The one problem with Africa has always been the lack of ability for free trade, the protectionism between -- and by the way, there is all the
right policies in place, just people don't follow them.
ODUWOLE: It takes countries like Nigeria, big economies, taking the agreement seriously and leading the way.
We have opened the air cargo corridor with 13 African countries, southern and eastern African countries with Uganda Air, which halved the cost of
freight for exporters from Nigeria.
So, those kinds of connectivity is actualizing free trade across the continent practical steps. That's what's going to deliver the promise of
that agreement.
QUEST: What gives you hope? Write it here.
ODUWOLE: OK.
QUEST: Don't worry, we're not looking at your handwriting.
Oh, cheap shot.
ODUWOLE: Yes, yes, yes.
QUEST: Cheap shot --
(CROSSTALK)
ODUWOLE: You know, you asked me about Africa, what gives me hope? The African continental free trade area, Nigeria paving the way. Nigeria
pushing on all exports. I know no exports --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: You never missed the opportunity, do you?
ODUWOLE: 20 percent off.
QUEST: I'm going to charge you for the (INAUDIBLE).
They never missed a chance to get the promotion, do you?
Nigeria. What gives her? Well, you can't blame her. She is the minister. We'll take a PROFITABLE MOMENT after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:00:09]
QUEST: Tonight's PROFITABLE MOMENT, this year, we decided you should join in what gives you hope, as we are here in Davos.
END
