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Quest Means Business
E.U. Leaders Hold Emergency Meeting on Greenland; Spanish Foreign Minister: We are Doing More for Ukraine than Anyone Else; Interview with BBVA Chair Carlos Torres Vila; Interview with Croatian Prime Minister Andrej Plenkovic; Interview with Allianz CEO Oliver Bate. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 22, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:29]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Closing bell ringing on Wall Street. Trading coming to an end. The markets are high. No
records. Not exactly a bumper day overall.
Hit the gavel. Trading is over. Those are the markets and these are the stories tonight we will be following for you.
President Trump meets President Zelenskyy and afterwards, Zelenskyy tells Europe without the U.S., you are lost. European leaders are in Brussels for
an emergency meeting, trying to work out what does the framework for Greenland mean?
And Donald Trump suing JPMorgan an and its chief executive, Jamie Dimon for $5 billion. He claims they unlawfully debanked him.
We are live tonight at the World Economic Forum. I am Richard Quest. It is Thursday, January the 22nd, with my good friend, Colin Colander. Together,
we mean business.
Good evening.
It is our final day here in Davos. Air Force One left hours ago and Europe has been left reeling after the roller coaster visit from the U.S.
President. The parties may be winding down here, although perhaps not. You can certainly hear them sounding like a live band in a bit of a hoopla
going on over there.
But I have foregone all of that to be here with you, because on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we have our own party and we are getting warmed up on tonight's
program. We have Spain's foreign minister and the Prime Minister of Croatia. We have the chair of the Spanish banking giant, BBVA and the chair
of the Dubai developer, DAMAC, the Donald of Dubai, as he is known, Hussein Sajwani, close friend of President Trump.
Now, Ukraine was back in focus on Donald Trump's final day in Davos. The President met with President Zelenskyy earlier. The Ukrainian President
said documents to end the war are nearly ready.
And now tonight, the U.S. Special Envoy, Steve Witkoff said negotiations are down to one issue. According to European officials telling CNN that
issue is territory and it is believed that Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are actually in Moscow tonight and have just landed there a short time ago.
President Zelenskyy also took aim at Europe during his address to Davos saying that without the U.S. they look lost.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Europe remains a beautiful but fragmented kaleidoscope of small and middle powers. Instead of taking the
lead in defending freedom worldwide, especially when America's focus shifts elsewhere, Europe looks lost trying to convince the U.S. President to
change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Well, Jamil Anderlini is POLITICO's regional director for Europe. He is with me now.
Good to see you, sir.
JAMIL ANDERLINI, POLITICO'S REGIONAL DIRECTOR FOR EUROPE: Good to see you.
QUEST: Thank you very much indeed.
ANDERLINI: Thank you.
QUEST: This second to last, well, this last day, so to speak. How do you make -- what do you make of it and how it all came together?
ANDERLINI: I would say that Europe and Davos got a real taste of The trump show this time.
QUEST: Right. But in what sense? Obviously, we saw it all here. We saw the massive hoopla, but what do they make of it? I mean, it is almost as if
they were stunned into it all.
ANDERLINI: I would say that's exactly right. So, in our reporting leading up into this week, we heard that the plan was for a peace deal between
Ukraine and Russia to be signed here in Davos. Of course, once Trump arrived, once the entourage, the traveling circus arrived, all the talk was
about Greenland and a bit of Iceland and everything got distracted.
The whole messaging was all about this, and he used his escalation dominance to get everyone to sort of cower before him. And Ukraine is an
afterthought, as you mentioned. Witkoff -- Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner are on the way or --
QUEST: They have arrived in Moscow tonight.
ANDERLINI: Yes, they are in Moscow tonight, but that was supposed to be this week during the meeting itself.
QUEST: So, when we listen to President Zelenskyy, it was interesting, his speech was almost a version of Donald Trump, in a sense, of I am going to
give it to you right between the eyeballs, along with a bit of Mark Carney, I am going to tell you that you can't keep doing this and hope to get away
with it.
[16:05:12]
ANDERLINI: Yes, well, obviously he doesn't want to offend Donald Trump or the U.S. administration. That's very clear. He is very careful about that.
He takes every opportunity he can to meet with the U.S. President. He, on Tuesday said he wasn't going to come, and then Donald Trump said, I am
meeting him, so he then did come. And it is a bit easier to take it out on the Europeans than it is to take it out on Daddy Trump.
QUEST: Right. But now, we've got the Europeans somewhat confused, betwixt, between. They've been really hit over the head. They are still reeling from
Greenland and trying to work out what they're going to do, but now they have to get back onto the agenda with Ukraine.
And it is not quite -- I couldn't really see here, obviously, what they are going to do?
ANDERLINI: And I think the same applies from their perspective. They're sitting in Brussels tonight, lamenting this week, I think. They got a taste
of not statecraft, but real estate craft this week from Donald Trump. And, I think that Europe is in again, once again in a very difficult position.
Europe doesn't function the way that the U.S. White House, the Trump White House does. It is a consensus arrangement. It is a slow and steady process,
and they're just not used to this. They're bamboozled.
QUEST: Right. Let's finally talk about Greenland and wrap it up with all of that, because goodness knows. I mean --
ANDERLINI: Your guess is as good as mine.
QUEST: You know, I watch -- I was in the Congress Center last night and I saw Mark Rutte on the phone talking to everybody. I saw Donald Trump giving
his statements. I've spoken to him gazillion as you have European leaders and they really have sort of stuck to the sovereignty line, but they don't
really know what to make of it all.
ANDERLINI: They really don't. And what I would say about this Davos, you've been coming for many years. I've been coming for many years. I think this
was a very, very symbolic Davos. I think this is the one where we realize - - the world realizes -- certainly the Europeans realize that the multilateral world order that we have gotten used to since World War II,
certainly since the fall of the Soviet Union, is done.
The whole, you know, one hour and 45 minutes, mocking Macron's accent, this was the most symbolic Davos I've ever been in.
QUEST: Right. But you see, I'm not -- I agree with you on all of that. But I still think that the European leaders are in the seven stages of grief. I
don't think they've got to acceptance yet.
ANDERLINI: Well, but they probably will in the next few days, I would say.
QUEST: You think so?
ANDERLINI: Yes, I do.
QUEST: Good to see you. I'm very grateful. Thank you very much indeed.
ANDERLINI: Thank you.
QUEST: Now, I asked Spain's Foreign Minister about President Zelenskyy's criticism of Europe. Jose Manuel Albares told me Spain and the E.U. are
doing all they can for Kyiv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSE MANUEL ALBARES, SPAIN'S FOREIGN MINISTER: Ukraine is existential for us, for Europeans. We must do as much as we can. That's for sure, because
what's at stake in Ukraine, it is important for the Ukrainians, but it is also the future architecture of security of Europe.
QUEST: Right, now, take that statement, sir. And now extrapolate it further on. It is important for Europe, therefore, is Europe doing enough now?
ALBARES: We, as it comes to Spain, and also to E.U. as an institution. When you see the level of funding and the level of weapons that we are doing, we
are doing more than anyone else in the world. Maybe we should do more and that's to President Zelenskyy to tell us he is the one that he is --
QUEST: He is.
ALBARES: I know.
QUEST: Sorry, sorry. That's exactly what he said. I need more. I need you to do more.
ALBARES: We tried to do as much as we can because the fate of Ukraine is also our fate. What is at stake there is whether the security of Europe is
guaranteed or not, or whether democracy is what will prevail in Europe or not.
QUEST: Listening to President Zelenskyy, he was very harsh on Europe. He was in a polite way, but basically saying, we are talking this year about
the same things we were talking last year. People don't want to spoil the mood. People don't want to, you know, it's time to do something and move
something.
ALBARES: I really think Europe should move forward. I'm saying it in the last few weeks. I think it's time that Europe takes its own fate and its
sovereignty in its own hands. And that means really removing all of the obstacles of the single market, making sure that we have the right trade
partners in this moment in which people start to talk about tariffs and that we have also our deterrence in our hands, our own security,
integrating our industries of defense and moving towards a European Army.
QUEST: President Trump, he is threatening Spain. He says everybody is paying fie percent but Spain. I don't know what's happening with Spain. Why
would they not do that? They want a free ride.
[16:10:06]
We're going to have to talk to Spain.
ALBARES: I think we are a reliable ally, and our commitment to Euro- Atlantic security is out of question. We have a historical deployment of troops in the eastern flank, 3,000. Our airplanes are providing security
for the Baltics. We have had in the past, ships in the Black Sea, and we have raised our Defense expenditure from 0.8 percent to two percent. And
the NATO organization knows that we are going to provide with the capacities that we have been requested.
QUEST: But is there a problem with the five percent number? Because I remember when it came out, your Prime Minister was very dismissive on the
question of a of a target of five percent.
ALBARES: We think that the right way of making planning is we see the threats. We decided what capacities we need to meet the threats, and then
we quantify in a budget. How much cost those capacities.
For us, the capacities that NATO has is 2.1 percent.
QUEST: But that's not the way NATO works. NATO works by the collective agreement on a target number, and everybody provides in some shape or form
to that target number.
Now, they haven't reached that target, but that's how it works. That's the system.
ALBARES: But the collective agreement means all the allies, Spain included.
QUEST: So, you're not going to go for five percent?
ALBARES: We were very clear. We will give the capacities and we need 2.1 percent in order to do that.
QUEST: What's your understanding of the framework for Greenland?
ALBARES: I don't really know. The only thing I know is the announcement that was made yesterday. But what's important for me is the principle and
what the people of Greenland have said, and they have been very clear, they want to be part of Denmark, they want to be part of an E.U. member state,
and sovereignty and territorial integrity is a principle that if we don't uphold, the world will be completely at unstable.
QUEST: But it does sound like Mark Rutte has done a nifty bit of footwork to try and, you know, get around this and to try and find a solution that
everybody can sign on to.
ALBARES: If we discuss that into the NATO Council and if this principle of sovereignty of Denmark is respected, we will be happy. But at the end on
Greenland, it is only to the people of Greenland and to the Danish people to decide and to say.
QUEST: Come and join me over here, sir. All right. First of all, I am trying to think what is the color of the Kingdom of Spain?
ALBARES: It is red and yellow.
QUEST: We haven't got any yellow. We've got red or you could always do another color.
ALBARES: Red is perfect.
QUEST: Red, okay.
ALBARES: So, I will make this one and I will write my own.
QUEST: Oh, a twofer. What can one say?
ALBARES: Multilateralism.
QUEST: Multilateralism. Oh, that's very good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: I can tell you I wouldn't like to be writing multilateralism on a board bending over, and it would be difficult for me.
All right, E.U. leaders tonight holding an emergency summit on the future of Greenland and how to work with the U.S. going forward.
Greenland's Prime Minister says he is still in the dark about the framework for a deal announced by President Trump and Mark Rutte.
Nic Robertson asked Jens-Frederik Nielsen if Greenland is safe from U.S. ownership.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENS-FREDERIK NIELSEN, PRIME MINISTER OF GREENLAND: Nobody else than Greenland and the Kingdom of Denmark have the mandate to make deals or
agreements about Greenland and the Kingdom of Denmark. Without us, that's not going to happen.
We have said from the from the beginning in Greenland, we have some red lines. We cannot cross the red lines. We have to respect our territorial
integrity. We have to respect international law, sovereignty.
We are ready to cooperate more in economics and in other areas, but that's something we have to talk about in mutual respect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Clare Sebastian tonight joins us from Brussels, where the E.U. meeting is underway. Good evening to you, Clare.
It could be a late night. It could be a long meeting, and we still don't know, maybe you can tell me more about exactly what the deal is.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, on Greenland specifically, I think it is clear and certainly, this is what we were hearing from a
senior E.U. official, Richard, ahead of this meeting today, that we are still at the beginning of a process here.
The way they laid it out was there are essentially two tracks that were agreed between Donald Trump and Mark Rutte. Number one, of course, the
bilateral track between the U.S. and Denmark, with Greenland ironing out issues potentially around things like military bases. Weve heard from other
sources, mineral rights could be on the table there as well.
And then there is the other NATO related track, and we heard the Danish Prime Minister, Mette Frederiksen, arriving at the summit here this
evening, saying that she is looking for a bigger NATO presence in the Arctic region and specifically around Greenland as well.
So, that is what they are working on.
[16:15:18]
But they do see it as the very beginning of a process right now. And of course, that isn't really the biggest issue that they're discussing here in
Brussels this evening. The biggest issue is the impact that these six days of turmoil since Trump announced those potential tariffs on some E.U.
members last week, and the impact that that has had overall on the transatlantic relationship.
Take a listen to Kaja Kallas the E.U. Foreign Policy Chief as she arrived here this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAJA KALLAS, EUROPEAN UNION'S HIGH REPRESENTATIVE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS AND SECURITY POLICY AND VICE-PRESIDENT OF THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION: The
transatlantic relations have definitely taken a big blow over the last week, but I think in this one year we have learned that these relations are
not the same as they were.
On the European side, we are not willing to junk 80 years of good relations, and we are willing to work for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEBASTIAN: So look, I think it is clear that over the past week, the Rubicon have been crossed, right, with the potential for an annexation by
the U.S. of Greenland, then the tariff threat; now all of that off the table. But we know of course, a large portion of Trump's speech at Davos
dedicated to lambasting Europe for various reasons, and now they have to chart a path forward through this, through this new reality, said a senior
E.U. official ahead of this summit.
Are they on the same page? Is this a force for unity within Europe and therefore more decisive and quicker decision-making going forward? I think
that remains to be seen, but we will be looking for clues, Richard, as the evening progresses.
QUEST: Now listening to Donald Trump last night and indeed whenever he's been talking and in his interviews he's done during today, he is using a
phrase along the lines of right to access, talking about unlimited access.
This seems to be the sort of phraseology, the word ownership has gone. Now, it is all about unlimited right of access. In other words, finding some way
to allow the U.S. to have the sovereignty to do what it needs or wishes to do, but not the sovereignty over the land.
SEBASTIAN: Well, look, I mean sovereignty very clearly for Greenland and for Denmark is a red line here. This was reiterated again by the Danish
Prime Minister this evening in Brussels. As to what they can negotiate within the existing 1951 agreement, well, she is certainly prepared to talk
about that.
But again, we're at the beginning of the process here, Richard. And I think while it is clear that whatever was negotiated in the room between
President Trump and NATO Secretary General, the idea of ownership, he has now backed off that, but is looking for potentially the next best thing.
QUEST: Clare Sebastian in Brussels late night for all. Thank you.
When we return, President Trump is suing JPMorgan and its chief executive, Jamie Dimon. They are alleging that they debanked Mr. Trump in 2021. I will
explain in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:14]
QUEST: President Trump is suing JPMorgan Chase and its chief executive, Jamie Dimon, for dropping the President as a client back in February 2021.
The suit is alleging the decision was politically motivated and therefore it was improper. He was debanked in a sense.
It also alleges that JPMorgan placed President Trump, along with his family and businesses on a blacklist, a decision it says was personally authorized
by Mr. Dimon.
Kristen Holmes joins me from The White House.
Just before we get into The White House's view. Of course, JPMorgan, the bank says nothing like it. They were following rules that they had to
follow. They say that this is the same sort of procedures under both administrations. They're wanting to change the rules, but they had no
choice.
This is not going to be easy all around.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No. And they also said that we respect the President's right to sue us and move forward. But
again, as you said, they believe that this is in their policies and regulations that they had to follow.
Now, of course, as you mentioned, this is all related to JPMorgan Chase closing several bank accounts belonging to President Trump in February of
2021 after January 6th attacks and President Trump and his team are alleging that this was done for political reasons, that essentially the
socialized tide -- the social tide at the time was shifting away from President Trump. And so politically, it was not good for them to be having
him bank with them.
Now, this isn't really new when it comes to conservatives. It is new to actually sue, but conservatives have long said and accused banks of
essentially discriminating against them because of their political beliefs. And in fact, just last summer, President Trump signed an Executive Order
ordering regulators to look into banks that would -- potentially closing down accounts or debanking people based on their political beliefs.
So, this is something that he has talked about extensively. He actually even mentioned it last year at Davos when he spoke, but of course, he is
now taking action in the tune of more than $5 billion filed in Florida.
QUEST: The other aspect in all of this of course, is the rather fractious relationship that sometimes exists between Jamie Dimon and President Trump.
Jamie Dimon is one of the most outspoken chief executives. Even here this week, he has been talking out about against some of the policies of the
administration.
And I guess, it is the way that politics has well and truly intruded into this. I mean, the two men have known each other and sparred over many
years.
HOLMES: They have sparred a bit at times. They've also gotten along. It's not been all toxic, although, of course, what we've seen of late has been
President Trump at one point was basically commenting on a story that was a rumor about Dimon being considered for Fed Chair, but really amplified that
story because you could tell that he was angry that it was even out there as some kind of a suggestion.
He has blamed Dimon's wife, saying that she is liberal at various times. But they've also -- we've also seen them together and seen them have
conversations at other points during not only his tenure, but his time in politics.
I do want to go back to one thing you said, though, because this is true of everything that President Trump does, is that it is all rooted in politics.
I mean, we were talking a lot today about the hearing with Jack Smith, that is also rooted in politics. This idea that everything is intertwined
politically and President Trump was angry at that time after January 6th, when he wasn't just that these bank accounts were being closed, it was
essentially a time in which lawmakers and institutions turned their back on President Trump because of what happened, the insurrection that happened at
the Capitol.
[16:25:06]
And he is now kind of trying to turn the tables in this position of power and get back at them in some way.
QUEST: Kristen, thank you very much indeed. I am very grateful. Grateful for you all week, as I see we have been here in the freezing cold in Davos
and you of course, with what is happening in Washington.
Thank you for joining us.
Now, let's go to talk to the man known as the Donald of Dubai, since we are talking about chief executives and those who get along particularly with
Donald Trump.
The chair of DAMAC, the very large UAE property company developer, says he doesn't discuss politics with President Trump.
Now, I spoke to Hussain Sajwani about his relationship with the President. Just remember, look, there you are. He spent -- that's him on the far
right. He spent New Year's Eve at Mar-a-Lago just a few weeks ago. He is a member of Mar-a-Lago and before the President took office Mr. Sajwani had
announced a $20 billion investment building U.S. data centers.
I asked the Chair about the data centers and how he views President Trump's actions this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HUSSAIN SAJWANI, CEO, DAMAC: As you appreciate, I am not a politician. When I am with him, I avoid anything to talk about politics. But the world is
full of issues, and it is interesting to watch and see.
I am still very optimistic that things will get sorted out one way or another.
QUEST: If we look at what where you are putting your real estate investments and indeed your building firepower, you've built a lot of
buildings.
SAJWANI: Yes, a lot.
QUEST: lot of apartment buildings.
SAJWANI: We have delivered 50,000 luxury units so far. Another 50,000 under construction now.
QUEST: Really?
SAJWANI: Yes.
QUEST: But that's not really where your focus is at the moment, is it? Your focus is very much on data centers.
SAJWANI: Well, DAMAC Properties, no question. It is a well -established company and doing very well. And we just announced our results of last
year, sold more than $10 billion, you know, with a healthy margin. But yes, our new expansion is in data center. We are in 12 countries.
We made a press conference with President Trump to commit $20 billion. We are already almost there. Now, we have land bank of a thousand megawatts,
which ones get built in the coming two years will be $12 billion. So, we are almost halfway there.
QUEST: Now, I know that it is not your responsibility, but you're the builder. But these buildings are turning into a controversy, not just
because of the building, but because the electricity demand, the footprint of the buildings, the sheer number of them that there is going to have to
be and arguably, the oversupply of them that we're building more than we might need.
SAJWANI: You ask two questions A: About the environment sustainability. Now, we are focusing very much in Nordic. So, we have quite a big land we
bought in Finland and Sweden, and there, there is clean energy and you know, the electricity is more clean. So, we are quite conscious about the
environment.
Yes, in some countries, they are putting pressure on the grid and governments are finding solutions. Like anything else in life, it will be
supply and demand. But the A.I. is the beginning. I mean, yesterday I was with one of the top, the largest company of, you know, data center in the
world. You know, during the reception of Mr. Trump and he told me one of his customers want two gigawatts, another customer want three gigawatts.
The demand is huge, it is huge, and it is going to continue at least another three to five years.
QUEST: You'll have to help me.
SAJWANI: Sure.
QUEST: What does two or three gigawatts mean?
SAJWANI: I am no different than you. I am no different than you. But maybe two or three gigawatt can probably give power to a medium sized city. It is
as big as that.
QUEST: How much of all of this did you have to learn?
SAJWANI: Oh, a lot. I will tell you, when I first started, I called the top consultant from the U.S. and I brought them to Dubai and I kept him with me
one week, every day after office, 4:00, we go until 10:00. Every day, six hours, he explained to me, item by item.
I am not an engineer, but I want to learn. I hate when my manager tells me a story and I don't know what they're talking about. I need to know the
basics. I don't need to know all the details.
QUEST: But that's really given you quite an achievement and an advancement over others.
SAJWANI: Yes, because I go to the minutest detail in my business. I am a very detailed man, and a lot of people criticize me for that, but that's my
strength.
QUEST: So, when you're sitting with the President in Mar-a-Lago, are you having sort of debates and discussions on buildings? You know, the
President saying, now come on and say, no, that's too many. And you say, no, I think it needs to have that. No --
SAJWANI: I will tell you a story.
QUEST: You know, you both speak the language of the developer.
SAJWANI: I will tell you a story, last year, not in 2025, in 2024 and during New Year, I was there the New Year night. So, as I walked in from
outside around 5:00, he is standing on the terrace where the two staircases going with the manager of Mar-a-Lago giving him direction where the
barbecue should be, where the stand should be, and after he finished, I said, Mr. President, you are now the U.S. President-elect. I said, you're
President-elect. He goes, but the carpet is done wrong here.
So I said, you are a developer. You're not going to change. So when he walks and he sees something wrong, he will ask you to fix it.
[16:30:25]
QUEST: Come and join me over here.
SAJWANI: Sure.
QUEST: What gives you hope? There you are. Find some space somewhere on what gives you hope.
SAJWANI: Nothing left for me in space.
QUEST: There's a bit there. There's some there. There's some there. What would you -- what gives you hope? What gives you hope?
SAJWANI: What gives me hope?
QUEST: Yes.
SAJWANI: A lot of good people in this world. A lot of opportunities.
QUEST: Sum it up in one word.
SAJWANI: Good people. The world is still full of good people. You're one of them.
QUEST: You're too kind.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: There you are. I want to just show you exactly how we are here at QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in Davos. This is the way it all looks. If you take a
-- if you look this side, there you are. That's the board behind me. My dear colleagues who are all trying to keep warm as best they can in very
difficult circumstances. It's cold. What can I say? It's here in Davos. But that's what it's like. Warts and all, as they say.
Coming up on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, the chair of BBVA, the only foreign banks operating in Venezuela, says the U.S. arrest of Maduro has created
new opportunities there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. There's a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS tonight from Davos. Croatia's prime minister will discuss the fading unity
among NATO members and whether it can all be pulled back together.
[16:35:00]
The chief exec of the German insurance group Allianz tells me despite global uncertainty real progress is being made. And we'll get to all of
that only after, yes, you know that, the news, because this is CNN and here, the news always comes first.
The Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, is describing his latest meeting with President Trump as positive. The two leaders met at the
sidelines here where Mr. Trump called negotiations to end Russia's war in Ukraine an ongoing process. President Zelenskyy says talks between Ukraine,
Russia and the U.S. will be held in the UAE, and that begins on Friday.
The U.S. vice president is blaming unrest in Minnesota on a lack of cooperation between state and federal officials. J.D. Vance went to
Minneapolis to speak with immigration officers and local authorities, where he defended the immigration -- the administration's crackdown, and said an
investigation is underway into the deadly shooting of Renee Good.
The former special counsel who indicted President Trump says he stands by that decision. Jack Smith has been testifying before the House Judiciary
Committee. Mr. Smith led the investigation into Donald Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. Republican lawmakers accuse him of
overreach. Smith said there was evidence Trump committed a crime.
The chair of BBVA is the only foreign bank operating in Venezuela, says the U.S. arrest of Maduro has created new opportunities in Venezuela. Carlos
Torres Vila spoke to me here about Venezuela's business climate, and particularly who is in charge, calling the shots, if you will. Is it
Caracas or Washington?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARLOS TORRES VILA, CHAIR, BBVA: We are the only foreign bank in Venezuela. We're quite large. We have 24 percent of the market, excluding the state
owned bank. 16 if you include it. So we're quite significant there. But for the last 25 years, what we have been doing is giving service to the
population without much return. Now there's a window of opportunity.
QUEST: So as best as you can tell us, are you in touch with the U.S. administration?
TORRES VILA: We have contact with the U.S. administration. I cannot give any details.
QUEST: OK.
TORRES VILA: But certainly all the companies that are operating in Venezuela, the foreign companies, have to do banking with us because we're
the only foreign bank with international standards. So as new investment might come in, and again, we need to be patient. We are in a good position
to exploit that. We have a retail bank, but also a commercial and corporate bank.
QUEST: Who do you regard as being the authority that you really need to be in touch with and to be in tune with, the local government there or the
U.S. administration?
TORRES VILA: No, the rules are very clear. We are operating in the country of Venezuela, operating under the rules and supervision. In that respect,
nothing has changed. So the bank continues to operate and give service, which is quite an essential service. What we have now it's the opportunity
for more investment to come. And in that respect, more companies are looking at Venezuela.
What I think might happen is that the companies that are already present are going to be the ones who are going to invest more quite quickly. So we
might see a ramp up of production of oil, for example, from Repsol, from Chevron, from any. But for new companies to come in, it might take a bit
longer for conditions to stabilize or to be have more visibility.
QUEST: But you're in a very, very strong position because you can, well, you've already joined up the dots between, say, for example, New York
banking, European banking, Venezuelan banking. You're already got the money flowing between all the necessary financial centers.
TORRES VILA: It is what it is. Also, it's a small operation because the country, it's GDP has come down significantly over the last decade and a
half. But the future is quite brighter if things normalize.
QUEST: So when you look at the disruption at the moment, what Mark Carney calls the rupture of the transatlantic relationship, or even the North
American relationship between the three countries, Canada, U.S. and Mexico, how is this affecting you, this disruption?
TORRES VILA: There was and continues to be a lot of uncertainty, but the uncertainty has materialized in a much less negative impact than
anticipated in general, globally, and the world's economy is growing quite nicely and is growing nicely in the countries where we're present. Now.
Mexico is in a particularly strong situation because it provides competitiveness to the U.S. market.
So as the U.S. trade war continues, or the need for the U.S. to be more autonomous, they rely --they must rely on Mexico so there's a lot of
investments. Value chains are quite integrated. And we are of course, this is a year in which the U.S., Mexico, Canada trade agreement will be
reviewed, but we expect positive news coming from that.
QUEST: Right. Come over here, do join me at the board. Join me at the board.
[16:40:00]
TORRES VILA: So we're quite positive about the impact A.I. will have in the world. But it also comes with challenges. Challenges around how wealth is
going to be distributed.
QUEST: Very important.
TORRES VILA: Because as we shift value from labor to capital, capital accumulates with capital. So that leads to inequality. We need to figure
that out. We need to figure out also a very important challenge that comes with A.I., which is the role of humans.
QUEST: Right.
TORRES VILA: In an age in which the machines can do basically everything we do today. So my source of hope or what gives me hope is the inventiveness
of people.
QUEST: Inventiveness.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Oh, I can honestly say I had my heart in my mouth when he was writing inventiveness. I wouldn't like to have to write inventiveness and
spell it on television in a language that wasn't my first language. But there you get the idea.
Prime Minister Mark Carney's speech on Tuesday was a Davos moment for world leaders. I spoke about it to Croatia's prime minister. You'll hear that
interview after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: When we look back at the weekend, what a week it has been, the week's defining moment arguably wasn't President Trump's speech on
Wednesday. Now, it was the words of the Canadian prime minister, Mark Carney, the day before. He put the world on notice that we are witnessing
the end of a rules-based order.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: In 1978, the Czech dissident Vaclav Havel, later president, wrote an essay called "The Power of the Powerless."
And in it he asked a simple question, how did the communist system sustain itself? And his answer began with the greengrocer. Every morning the
shopkeeper places a sign in his window. "Workers of the world unite." He doesn't believe it. No one does. But he places a sign anyway to avoid
trouble, to signal compliance, to get along.
And because every shopkeeper on every street does the same, the system persists, not through violence alone, but through the participation of
ordinary people in rituals they privately know to be false. Havel called this living within a lie.
[16:45:03]
The system's power comes not from its truth, but from everyone's willingness to perform as if it were true. And its fragility comes from the
same source. When even one person stops performing when the greengrocer removes his sign, the illusion begins to crack.
Friends, it is time for companies and countries to take their signs down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Mark Carney's words left an impression on the Croatian prime minister, Andrej Plenkovic. Referenced that story when I spoke to him a few
hours later. He made a similar observation about the fading unity amongst NATO members. The prime minister told me that strong transatlantic
relations must be restored.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREJ PLENKOVIC, CROATION PRIME MINISTER: I think there were all occasions that we have seen in the past where there was a NATO loyalty and
solidarity, whether the opinion of the president today is that today the leaders of the allied countries would not stand for any of the other
partners, I simply don't see that atmosphere now. What I see is the need to calm the relationship between the United States and the European partners,
and go back to the fundaments of the creation of the free world, post-war 1945 because transatlanticism is a backbone of everything that we are
living today.
QUEST: Privately, large numbers of people are saying they very much agree with Prime Minister Mark Carney's speech, which basically said -- talked
about the rupture in the transatlantic alliance and went on to say, you cannot just keep ignoring what's taking place. Do you sign on to that?
PLENKOVIC: We have seen that the second mandate of President Trump is more assertive when it comes to the handling and the methodology of, let's say,
protecting or fostering the American interest in the international relations. But I think there is no other solution, medium term, long run,
except for the partnership between the U.S. and Europe. And this is essential.
We are not ignoring it. We are aware of it. Everybody is seeing the different style, a different way of coming to the political objectives.
QUEST: Right.
PLENKOVIC: But I think that the comparison or metaphor with the grocery store in Czech Republic that Havel explained from the communist times in a
way is not something that we can today really say that we are all ignoring the new policy. We are seeing it, but we need to talk to the United States
despite that.
QUEST: Turning to Croatia, the economy is doing well.
PLENKOVIC: Economy is doing well. 20 semesters of continuous growth, investment rating, high employment, low unemployment, wages and pensions
going up.
QUEST: Where do you stand on E.U. enlargement now?
PLENKOVIC: Well, I think the principle which we always advocated when it comes to the enlargement, that was to evaluate every country that has the
ambition to join on its own merits, on the fulfillment of the criteria.
QUEST: Right.
PLENKOVIC: What we now see is a more geopolitical strategic approach, especially when it comes to Ukraine, given the fact that there are efforts
for the peace agreement and whether in this context, a faster pace of accession negotiations to the -- to Ukraine would go.
QUEST: Sure.
PLENKOVIC: Which of course we expect -- we extended always solidarity to Ukraine. But then the same approach should go also to all the others,
especially our neighbors, especially Bosnia and Herzegovina, where Croats are one of the constituent peoples.
QUEST: Right. But come over here, sir. What gives you hope? Just right in where you feel appropriate.
PLENKOVIC: In this context?
QUEST: Any context you like. Any context.
PLENKOVIC: I would say.
QUEST: Choose your poison, as they say.
PLENKOVIC: This is something everybody should be currently thinking about. Very important.
QUEST: I suppose the hope is that we've got some.
PLENKOVIC: That was the point.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The board is full of reasons why our guests this week have hope. I'll look back later at their answers, but just look at the variety that
we've got. It's a fascinating look at what people are thinking, in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:51:43]
QUEST: We were just saying it's a little bit warmer tonight here in Davos. At least I can manage to unbutton my coat and don't feel like a bit of
freezing off. But whether or not the weather is a little bit warmer, there's a certain lot of uncertainty in the air. A huge amount. Greenland,
the threat of more tariffs, the global economy. And still the CEO of the German insurance group Allianz is optimistic.
Oliver Bate says global uncertainty is casting a shadow, but the progress is still there and progress is still being made.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OLIVER BATE, CEO, ALLIANZ: I'm optimistic about some things and we'll talk about, you know, what makes me optimistic.
QUEST: Go on.
BATE: The one thing that we're seeing that institutions that do the right thing, that we are trying to do, get the trust of their constituents,
whether that's their customers or whether their employees, right? Our customer satisfaction, Richard, at this point in time, has never been
higher as long as we've been measuring it, that's more than 25 years.
QUEST: What are they saying? What's driving that customer satisfaction?
BATE: Because we promise something that we can deliver so we try not to overpromise and then we work on it every day that we do not promise
something that we don't deliver. It starts with that. And that we have employees, by the way, we have the highest employee satisfaction in the
world that are proud for the companies that they work for.
QUEST: You know, you talk about higher satisfaction, highest appreciation. What's worrying you most then about it all?
BATE: If I was worried, if the question is what's the other side of the coin that keeps me awake at night.
QUEST: Yes. Yes.
BATE: Other than geopolitics and all the other things?
QUEST: Yes. Yes. Because you can't control those.
BATE: No. I think something that's very specific to our business.
QUEST: Yes.
BATE: That's called affordability of our products.
QUEST: Meaning?
BATE: The last 50 years, the insurance premium that you would pay as a median household would be 6 percent to 8 percent of disposable income.
QUEST: Right.
BATE: And because of massive inflation in health care costs, in spare parts for cars, the cost to repair a house, the share of disposable income that
we are consuming as an industry is constantly going up. And we used to make money by being better than the other guy, right? So we have lower cost,
better service.
QUEST: Right.
BATE: But everyone, you know, makes a certain marginal rates. But our customers are getting poorer. So we need to change our industry. It's very
fundamental, by the way, to say how can we reduce Richard's cost of risk?
QUEST: But that's really difficult because the risk is still the same and the risk is still the same.
BATE: Yes.
QUEST: Your costs are still the same. The liability that you're taking on is still the same. You just can't get as much money out of me.
BATE: We can for now. But we're trying to save -- change the equations. If you are insured with us, let's say in Germany, and you have an accident,
and you trust us to take care of this process, we save, on average, 18 percent to 25 percent of the repair cost because we negotiate better prices
for you, better service, and that we can pass on as lower premium.
QUEST: Got it.
BATE: And we do this for any service that we want to offer prospectively. So we are changing the equation from we are better than the other guy to we
actually reduce the cost of risk for you.
QUEST: Choose your color.
BATE: Blue. Allianz blue.
QUEST: Trust. Whose trust?
[16:55:01]
BATE: The trust of our people, our shareholders and their goal. If you do the right thing, people start to trust you and then good things come from
that.
QUEST: And if you don't?
BATE: You lose.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Well, that's one way of putting it. But there you are. There's the trust from Allianz. All the other people who have been on the board, Ngozi
even writing over here, and it's all very -- it was lovely.
So what gives you hope? For Christine Lagarde, it was her grandchildren. Carlsberg suggested it was a pint and a good bite. And Latvia's president
said keep calm and carry on. A full board of views and differences of opinion, and another successful Davos.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The question is, what gives you hope? I'll give you a choice of color. Here we go. You get to choose your poison. Write your answer on the
board any way you like.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Economy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll be a little bit unoriginal and circle economy.
GARY COHN, VICE CHAIRMAN, IBM: Technology.
TORRES VILA: What gives me hope is the inventiveness of people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stability.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Human adaptability.
QUEST: Oh. That's good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shared interests.
QUEST: Oh. Interesting.
DICK SCHOOF, DUTCH PRIME MINISTER: Cooperation.
QUEST: Oh. That's a good one.
SAJWANI: The world is still full of good people.
QUEST: Madame President, choose your color.
Christine Lagarde: The blue of Europe.
QUEST: Blue of Europe.
LAGARDE: Yes. Yes. Voila.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is what has transformed humanity for the better. Reason.
QUEST: Trust.
PLENKOVIC: Something everybody should be thinking about. Very important.
QUEST: That's very good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to relax. I mean, everyone gets so excited here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will join those who said history because things are moving in the right direction.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The word calm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Multilateralism.
QUEST: Multilateralism. Oh, that's very good.
NGOZI OKONJO-IWEALA, DIRECTOR-GENERAL, WTO: Nigeria paving the way. Resilience.
JACOB AARUP-ANDERSEN, CARLSBERG GROUP CEO: I can tell you what gives me hope. I want drinks always. Beer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: The thing I noticed most about this is all I seem to do was make the noise, oh, oh, oh, ah, oh. But look at it. And you trust the world to the
people who wrote all of that.
"Profitable Moment" after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment" here in Davos with Colin Collander. It's been a Davos like none other. Let's be brutally honest about it. The
way in which Donald Trump arrived here took over. Other things were discussed, to be absolutely honest. There were things on the promenade with
A.I. There were people here who were dealing with all sorts of other issues, the sort of things of poverty, water, women's health.
The agenda did continue, but there's no doubt the whole Donald Trump visit, Greenland, it absolutely dominated. And it took the oxygen from other
issues that perhaps arguably do need to be looked at. Whichever way you look at it, I've got a question. I've got a thought. What gives me hope?
Let me leave you with this thought. What gives me hope is that each year you and I, sir, are here to enjoy it. Thank you.
Because that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this Thursday night. I'm Richard Quest in Davos. Whatever you're up to the in the hours ahead, I hope it's
profitable. I'll see you next week.
END
