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Quest Means Business
Trump Angers Allies with Swipe at NATO Troops in Afghanistan; Anti- ICE Protesters Urge Economic Boycott in Minnesota; TikTok Now Run by Joint Venture Backed by Oracle; Others; Forrest: The World Will Be A Different Place By 2030; Fortescue Aims To Become Fully Green Mining Company; Heathrow Airport Eases Rules On Liquid Container Limits; Standard Chartered CEO On Digital Transaction Evolution; Professional Climber Assesses Risks Of Alex Honnold's Taipei Climb. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 23, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:18]
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: U.S. stocks are closing out the session in the red there, you can see stocks down almost 290 points there.
Bringing an end to a wild week for the U.S. stock market. Those are the markets. And these are the events.
NATO allies are furious at President Trump's claim that they avoided the frontlines in Afghanistan.
In Minneapolis, shops are closing their doors to protest the immigration crackdown. We are going to speak to a member of the business community.
And Netflix is set to broadcast a live, free solo climb of Taiwan's tallest skyscraper. That's just a few hours from now.
Live from Atlanta. It is. Friday, January 23rd. I am Lynda Kinkade, in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
A very good evening to you, President Trump outraging many U.S. allies yet again with his comments disparaging the role of NATO forces in Afghanistan.
The U.S. leader has downplayed the importance of the alliance for weeks as he pushed to take control of Greenland.
Speaking to Fox News Business, Mr. Trump said he wasn't sure NATO allies would be there militarily if the U.S. ever needed them, and he suggested
that NATO troops had little involvement in the actual fighting in Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We've never needed them. We have never really asked anything of them. You know, they'll
say they sent some troops to Afghanistan or this or that, and they did. They stayed a little back, a little off the frontlines.
But we've been very good to Europe and to many other countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Well, the U.K. suffered the second highest number of military deaths in the Afghan War, and the Chair of Britain's Foreign Affairs Select
Committee called Trump's comments an absolute insult, a sentiment shared by the country's Prime Minister.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Let me start by paying tribute to the 457 of our Armed Services who lost their lives in Afghanistan. I will never
forget their courage, their bravery and the sacrifice that they made for their country.
There were many also who were injured, some with life-changing injuries, and so I consider President Trump's remarks to be insulting and frankly,
appalling. I am not surprised they've caused such hurt to the loved ones of those who were killed or injured, and in fact, across the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Britain's Prince Harry is defending the role that U.K. forces have played in the war. In a statement, the Prince, who himself served in
Afghanistan, said "... In 2001, NATO invoked Article V for the first and only time in history. It means every allied nation was obliged to stand
with the U.S. in Afghanistan in pursuit of our shared security, allies answered that call. I served there. I made lifelong friends there, and I
lost friends there. Thousands of lives were changed forever. Mothers and fathers buried, sons and daughters. Children left without a parent.
Families are left carrying the cost. Those sacrifices deserve to be spoken about truthfully and with respect. And we all remain united and loyal to
the defense of diplomacy and peace."
Well, Our Nic Robertson joins us now from Nuuk, Greenland.
Nic, good to have you with us.
So those comments by President Trump were not only offensive, they are false, and this coming from someone who had avoided military service,
citing medical exemptions.
You have reported from Afghanistan. What did you witness on the ground?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, I was with Lithuanian troops in Chaghcharan not long after September the 11th with you
know, the German troops were there, and Taloqan, that's with Italian troops in Herat in the East, where British troops are sort of in the center and
south in Helmand Province, which was very dangerous.
Musa Qaleh, one of the most dangerous places for British troops, towns like Gereshk, on the main highway between Kandahar and Herat. Kandahar, where
there were Canadian forces as well. There were many nations there, as well as U.S. troops, and I got to spend time and report on them, and some of the
very far-flung and furthest reaches of a war that didn't really have frontlines, because the Taliban were mixed in with the population.
[16:05:09]
And a definition of that sort of implies frontlines like the First or Second World War with clear lines and trenches, that defies the logic and
the reality of how the war was fought in Afghanistan.
So, I can see how for all the different nations serving, it would be particularly painful to hear this and I've heard that from Danish
commanders here who have served in Iraq and seen their troops die in Afghanistan per capita, more Danish troops died in Afghanistan than U.S.
forces.
So these comments by President Trump do bite deep at a time when people are focusing on and President Trump is talking about as well, NATO Secretary
General talking about, an uptick of NATO's presence here in the Arctic Region, NATO nations working together, Denmark spending more money. We've
heard the commitments in that direction to provide the sort of level of Arctic security from a threat that President Trump has said is heavy in the
area.
And this is something that -- people Friday night here -- I think, is the best way to interpret what's happening at the moment. But back to the point
here, there is a strong feeling that what President Trump is saying doesn't bear witness to what so many people have witnessed.
But troops on the frontline fight for the soldier next to them. I think this is something that will frustrate and anger families of troops who have
lost or still have maimed soldiers that they're trying to take care of at home, all of those sorts of scenarios for troops on the frontline, they
will still be, I believe, in any NATO environment looking out for each other, as they always do.
KINKADE: And just quickly, Nic, the leaders of Denmark and Greenland met in Nuuk where you are today. Do they trust the U.S. right now after Trump
earlier this week said he would take control of Greenland and is now talking about some long-term framework deal?
ROBERTSON: We've heard from the Prime Minister here and he has said he accepts what president trump is saying about not coming with a military
force, and he takes that at face value as the President says it.
But I think as you step out of the sort of corridors of power where the politicians are being careful and diplomatic with their language, people
here absolutely do not trust President Trump one little bit. They are afraid and really believe that this could all circle and spike back up when
President Trump changes his mind, when he doesn't think he is getting what he wants through diplomacy.
They feel that he will come back and go hard and heavy on the annexation and possibly ramp up the sort of rhetoric that is not taking hard moves
like military action off of the table. So, that's a very real concern here.
And obviously, anything that undermines NATO and undermines the commitment of their nation's troops by another leader, that undermines people's
willingness to sort of believe in this case, President Trump.
KINKADE: Nic Robertson, great to have you there on the ground for us in Nuuk, Greenland, much appreciated.
Well, businesses across Minnesota have shut down for the day in protest against an immigration crackdown in that state. Local faith leaders and
unions organized an economic blackout. Many businesses put up fliers saying "ICE out!" Demonstrators are holding a rally in freezing temperatures.
Multiple people were arrested at one protest site in Minneapolis Airport, and many of them are angry about a five-year-old boy who was taken into
custody. We are told that Liam Ramos and his father are being held at a detention facility in Texas.
A local pastor says the boy's pregnant mother is still in Minneapolis. The U.S. Border Patrol's commander-at-large says that authorities are taking
care of the child.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGORY BOVINO, U.S. BORDER PATROL SECTOR CHIEF OF THE EL CENTRO SECTOR IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: We are experts in dealing with children. Let me say
that again, experts in dealing with children, not because we want to be, but because we have to be, a challenge any other law enforcement agency,
anywhere nationwide to show me the fantastic care that ICE and U.S. Border Patrol provide children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Omar Jimenez is in Minneapolis at one of those rallies, so, these rallies are happening despite the bitter temperatures right now.
Just talk us through what you're seeing about the scale and size of these protests.
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we are well into the negative degrees below zero Fahrenheit and as you can see, you still have got a lot of
people marching through the streets here in Minneapolis.
Now, look, the theme of this protest has remained the same really, since even before Renee Good was shot and killed here in Minneapolis.
They want federal immigration enforcement to the degree that we've seen it to this point here in Minneapolis, to get out of this area and to get out
of the Twin Cities as they describe it, Minneapolis and St. Paul.
[16:10:09]
Now, you've heard a little bit from what the Border Patrol Commander-at- large Greg Bovino has said, that they are not going to quit, that they're going to stay in these communities, and a lot of what people are protesting
is not necessarily about some of the worst people that are taken out of the communities, those with criminal histories and things like that, but it is
more about the methods in which many of these Patrol agents and ICE agents have used to go about enforcing some of those actions, efforts that at
times have led to chaos in the communities, efforts that at times have led to detained U.S. citizens.
And this has been the result, and I will say, this is honestly one of the largest protests we have seen. I've been in and out of the city here since
back on January 7th, this is one of the largest protests I have seen to date here in Minneapolis, and it is happening on what is, without a doubt,
the coldest day that we have seen to this point as well.
So clearly, not deterring the people here on the streets of Minneapolis, Lynda, as they continue to march through Downtown Minneapolis here.
KINKADE: Yes, just incredible sight there, as you say, all of those people out there, thousands of people out there in the cold, and many of them,
Omar, are angry about the way this case was handled with this five-year-old boy, Liam Ramos.
What more are we learning about his case? Because we have heard from his family's attorney, who seems to say that this was a family doing everything
right by the book to seek asylum in the U.S.
JIMENEZ: Yes, and that's what his family has been pretty quick to come out and say. Now, you know, the Department of Homeland Security has said that
they were targeting his father and that the father fled and that they were only staying with the five-year-old to make sure that he was taken care of.
Now, the family and others in the community allege that the DHS used that five-year-old as bait when they brought him up to a door where there may
have been family to take him in, but regardless, he was taken with his father and is now being held at a detention facility down in Texas right
now that typically sees families.
Now, one of the things that has been interesting, you look at these protests is that image that has gone very viral of that of that five-year-
old boy being handled or at the very least with immigration enforcement presence around him has invigorated a lot of the protests. We've seen
drawings of that particular picture inscribed on some of the signs out here. That image has obviously spread far beyond the Twin Cities,
Minneapolis and St. Paul here.
But you can't go far without seeing people posting about it, people talking about that particular case and really using that image as really the main
sort of motivator as to why some of these folks don't want immigration enforcement to the degree that we've seen in this area, because it could
ensnare a five-year-old, in this particular case.
We are still trying to learn more about the particulars on when that family came into the United States and otherwise, but that image, regardless, is
really motivating a lot of people that have come out onto the streets on a day as cold as this.
I mean, you even see, you know, all of these signs, including this one, "Families Belong Together," a little bit of an allusion to what I was just
talking about, that dynamic since his attorneys say that there are family - - there is family here where that five-year-old could have stayed with, but obviously that didn't end up the case -- Lynda.
KINKADE: Yes, he is now out-of-state, in Texas, in a detention facility. Omar Jimenez, thank you for being out there in the cold for us to give just
a perspective from the protesters.
JIMENEZ: Of course.
KINKADE: We are going to stay on this story.
Russ Adams is the manager of Corridor Recovery Initiatives for the Lake Street Council, a nonprofit that advocates for its community in
Minneapolis. He joins us now live.
Thanks for your time today.
RUSS ADAMS, MANAGER OF CORRIDOR RECOVERY INITIATIVES FOR THE LAKE STREET COUNCIL: Thank you, Lynda, it is good to be here.
KINKADE: So, right across the city and even in some respects across the state, we are seeing this economic blackout, shops just shutting up shop
essentially. Just explain the rationale for that.
ADAMS: Well, for today, it is a form of support, it is a signal that they are sending to the folks who are standing out on the coldest day yet this
year in our winter, that they agree that we need a better way forward in terms of dealing with immigration or pursuing folks who may have stayed too
long.
Our businesses are hurting. It is not business as usual on a commercial corridor like Lake Street. We estimate just monthly drops in revenue of 40
to 80 percent, some shops are closed. There are about a thousand businesses on the Lake Street Corridor, and we are projecting that they are going to
see a drop of $30 million collectively in revenue.
[16:15:10]
KINKADE: Wow! And these protests --
ADAMS: Just monthly.
KINKADE: That's incredible. These protests we are seeing are both inside and outside right now. Thousands of people taking to the streets, wanting
ICE effectively out of the city.
Just explain for us what sort of impact these ICE raids have had on the immigrant-owned businesses.
ADAMS: Well, you know, there are some workers that are afraid to show up, and we are not talking about undocumented only. We are were talking about
U.S. citizens that are afraid of just getting picked up. Too many people have sort of disappeared into these cars. They are held for days, sometimes
transferred to other states. They are not allowed to call lawyers.
So you can imagine the climate of fear and intimidation that is surrounding these businesses.
Some of the businesses we work with have people that are working double shifts. They are reducing their hours. They are doing all kinds of
promotions to drive customers to these stores. Anything from one for one giveaways, I've got a card right here from one of our wonderful businesses
that is trying to do that to fundraising events.
We did what we called a cash mob. Youve heard of flash mobs? We did a cash mob just two days ago to one particular Mexican restaurant. And you know,
the increase in revenue was startling to them. They thanked us profusely.
We had over a hundred people signed up and probably 200 showed up to give some help to these businesses. That's the real story here is that
Minnesotans are rallying around our immigrant communities, the children, the schools, places of worship and the business corridors. We don't like it
and bullied and we don't like being intimidated.
We will sit down with anybody and work out a good public policy that is logical and makes sense, but we are not going to get pushed around.
KINKADE: Yes. Just as you were speaking, Russ, we are seeing live images of this protest. One of the signs that caught my eye was "Justice for Renee."
It is three weeks since that 37-year-old mother, a U.S. citizen, Renee Nicole Good, was shot by ICE officers, fatally shot.
Trump expressed some sympathy once he found out that her parents were Trump supporters. Just explain for us how her death is being felt there.
ADAMS: It is really difficult to express into words that sense of loss. Renee Good could have been any one of us, honestly and I think most people
around the world see themselves in her. We have had more than one instance of somebody in a car getting conflicting directions because they had the
misfortune of pulling over into a block where there was an active ICE action going on.
The woman with disabilities who was pulled out, she was on her way to a doctor's appointment was incredibly confused by all the conflicting noise
and directions she got, and she thought of Renee Good. I've seen her in an interview.
You know, I would say for anybody in the federal government level, if you came to Lake Street, if you sat down and talked to businesses about what
our needs are, you would probably change the way you approach this and probably stop taking folks without judicial warrants and knocking down
doors, you'd see the humanity in our communities, and that's what we see.
You know, our hearts go out to the folks who are impacted. Every day, more and more people are being pulled off the street. This is breaking up
families. Obviously, it is not good for business, but it is terrible for the community.
KINKADE: Yes. Russ Adams, we appreciate your time and perspective, and we wish you and your community all the very best. Thanks very much.
ADAMS: Thank you.
KINKADE: Well, still to come, TikTok now has new owners for its operations here in the U.S. We are going to look at the new structure, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:21:55]
KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade.
TikTok is now under new owners in the U.S. after closing a deal that avoids a ban. It is now run by a joint venture. Larry Ellison's Oracle has a 15
percent stake, as does the private equity firm, Silver Lake and Emirati Investment firm, MGX. ByteDance will keep just under 20 percent of the new
venture.
The group will retrain the algorithm on U.S. user data, and it concludes a years' long saga that almost saw the app disappear from American phones
over national security concerns.
CNN's business tech editor, Lisa Eadicicco is in New York and joins us now.
Good to have you with us.
LISA EADICICCO, CNN BUSINESS TECH EDITOR: Thanks for having me.
KINKADE: So, you know, this is just a day before the deadline President Trump had set for the app's U.S. assets to be spun off from the Chinese
parent company. Take us through the deal that's been finalized.
EADICICCO: Sure. So, we already knew some details about this joint venture last month because of a memo that was sent out by TikTok CEO, Shou Chew,
but what we learned last night with this announcement is this formal establishment of this joint venture really kind of solidifies TikTok's
future in the U.S. and tells us more about who is going to be overseeing it.
So, this new joint venture will be governed by a majority American Board of Directors that includes executives from companies like Oracle, as you
mentioned. Also some other investors like Silver Lake as well and the CEO of TikTok, Shou Chew, will be on the Board, but I think there are still
some big questions kind of hanging over this agreement that are waiting to be answered.
And I think one of those -- one of the biggest ones is what will ultimately happen to the app? We know that it is going to stay in the U.S. That's been
made clear by this agreement, but we don't know whether we are going to expect any changes or not.
So TikTok has said that the -- or this joint venture has said that the experience will more or less remain the same, that it will still be a
global experience for users in the U.S., that U.S. profiles will still be discoverable globally, but it also said, as you mentioned, that the
algorithm, which its licensing from ByteDance is going to be retrained on U.S. user data to address some of those security concerns that came up in
the first place.
So, if there are going to be changes to the app, it is unclear what the retraining that algorithm, how that's going to affect the user experience.
For now, those in the U.S. who do open the TikTok app will likely see a prompt asking them to agree to new terms of service and privacy policy, but
other than that far out, we don't know how the app is going to change.
And I am also expecting to kind of hear more questions being raised about whether this new agreement actually does satisfy those security concerns
that, you know, put TikTok's future in the U.S. in jeopardy in the first place.
KINKADE: Yes. I mean, some 200 million Americans use this app. Some rely on it for their business, their livelihood, so we will see what sort of
changes might come with this new ownership.
Lisa Eadicicco, thanks so much for your time.
EADICICCO: Of course.
KINKADE: President Trump says rare earths will be part of his framework deal over Greenland. Trump told CNBC that both NATO and the U.S. would be
involved in mineral rights without providing any details.
Richard Quest spoke in Davos to the CEO of Brazilian mining giant, Vale about the importance of rare earths.
[16:25:20]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUSTAVO PIMENTA, CEO, VALE: I think people are waking up for the importance of the critical minerals for everything that we want to do. Certainly, we
are sitting in a very special moment for the mining industry.
I think one of the key challenges that we face is supply and we are working on.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": But there is shortage of existence in a sense. There is plenty of the stuff of these
rare earth minerals.
PIMENTA: That is true.
QUEST: It is just a problem of where they are.
PIMENTA: That is one element, the other one is the time to bring those minerals to life. So today, between exploration and bringing the projects
online, it has taken about 15 years.
QUEST: Why is that?
PIMENTA: Licensing is taking longer, permitting, it is harder for society. Society still has a challenge to absorb mining and to understand mining is
necessary. So, we have to work as society stakeholders to make sure we can bring this online quicker.
QUEST: But that's an argument of society accepting mining. That's been around since we first mined coal. It doesn't really matter whether its coal
or one of these minerals that are critical to chips. That's the same argument.
Why is it different?
PIMENTA: Well, I think everybody realized the importance of it today, right? I mean, we live better. We live longer as a result of someone --
something that was mined. If you look into the future and A.I. and everything we want to do, the amount of mining is going to be even greater
than now.
QUEST: How big is it going to be because of A.I.?
PIMENTA: Look, the view today is that we have to increase the supply of critical minerals by a factor of five to six times vis-a-vis everything
we've built to date. So it is an immense amount of investment, billions of dollars that we have to pour into the critical minerals space.
QUEST: Where in the world particularly will you focus?
PIMENTA: Brazil, has the periodic table in our territory. We have everything at scale. We are top five producers potentially in terms of
reserves and production of high-grade iron ore. Vale is the largest producer of iron ore globally.
Rare earths, cobalt, nickel, copper -- so Brazil is one of the potential candidates, stable democracy that could supply the U.S. and China. So, this
is one of our key priorities.
QUEST: Do you find that the relations, the sort of off-on relations between Brazil and the United States to be difficult to manage?
PIMENTA: Look, I think it has improved substantially in the last couple of months. Brazil and the U.S. have a very long-standing relationship for
centuries. Brazil and the U.S. are great partners. Brazil also has good relationship with China, with Europe.
So, I think we sit in a good position by being a neutral country in that regard. So, we can supply all of those markets for what they need.
QUEST: I realize you're not in Greenland.
PIMENTA: No, we are not.
QUEST: I realize that, but you're an expert in minerals. How fanciful is this debate over the rare earth minerals in Greenland? Bearing in mind they
are buried very deep under a large amount of ice and will be extremely expensive to extract.
PIMENTA: Look, it is hard to mine. Certainly, the good deposits are mostly gone, so people are looking for places that are harder to mine that will
take longer, that will be more expensive. That's why I go back to Brazil, which, you know, we have the endowment, we have the infrastructure and
could be a supplier of choice for some of those markets.
QUEST: It could be, but then why would it not?
PIMENTA: The key question for Brazil is how can we expedite the mining development in Brazil? And we are working with the Brazilian government for
it. I think -- I am hopeful that we will be able to do a lot better.
QUEST: Nobody wants a mine in their back garden, really. I mean, that's the problem, isn't it? Besides the licensing and all of that. Nobody really
wants -- mining is not a pretty pleasant operation and that is not going to change.
PIMENTA: I think it will. I am hopeful we will. I think we can demonstrate that not only we are essential, but what we do can make the world better.
QUEST: Come and join me now and choose your color.
PIMENTA: I will do blue. I will do blue.
QUEST: You will do blue. What gives you hope? You can write anywhere on the chart.
PIMENTA: People. I still believe people can make a difference and leave a good legacy.
QUEST: People.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: When we return, Richard will be back in Davos with the executive chairman of another mining giant, Fortescue. Andrew Forrest hits out at
climate skeptics and says there is nothing rare about rare earths.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:32:38]
LYNDA KINKADE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Lynda Kinkade. There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment.
When the CEO of banking giant, Standard Chartered, tries to convince Richard Quest that cryptocurrency is the key to the future of money.
And in a few hours from now, Netflix will broadcast a live free solo climb of a skyscraper in Taipei. I'll be speaking to a climbing expert about the
risks involved.
Before that, the headlines this hour.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says it's too early to draw conclusions from trilateral peace talks going on in Abu Dhabi. Officials
from Russia, Ukraine, and the U.S. are holding face to face discussions for the first time since the war began almost four years ago.
Kyiv's top negotiator says the meeting is focused on reaching a dignified and lasting peace. Donald Trump has ignited a firestorm of anger by
questioning the courage of NATO troops in Afghanistan.
Politicians and military leaders are demanding an apology after the U.S. president, said NATO troops stayed a little back from the front lines in
Afghanistan. More than a thousand non-American NATO troops died in that conflict.
With one day to go before the deadline, TikTok's future in the U.S. is now secure. An American joint venture is now officially in control of the app's
U.S. assets. After they were spun off by TikTok's Chinese parent company.
TikTok had -- was facing a ban in the U.S. over fears it was a national security risk.
People in eastern parts of the United States were facing record-cold temperatures this weekend, along with a massive winter storm. Authorities
are warning of subzero wind chills and dangerous travel conditions and possible power outages.
President Trump used the occasion to mock global warming, even though research suggests that climate change can also lead to more extreme winter
weather.
Richard Quest spoke at Davos to mining executive Andrew Forrest, the Executive Chair of Fortescue, says that the push for green energy is
accelerating despite Trump's rhetoric.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREW FORREST, EXECUTIVE CHAIRMAN, FORTESCUE: It's been more compulsive than I've ever seen for people to walk away from their fundamental values,
of trying to remind chief executives and politicians all over the world, 1.5 degrees has been pulled in a decade. You are behaving like it's been
pushed out.
[16:35:08]
Two decades, it's gone from 2040 to 2030. It's a strict set of criteria. You are going to be standing here in 2030 and the world's going to be a
different place. You are not going to have people saying, I don't believe in science. Well, I believe in computer science because that suits my
investments, but I don't believe in climate science, which has got even more physical science backing it.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: But how difficult is it to say that when you have the president of the United States here talking about
the great green scam, the con, and basically only being interested in fossil fuels. And even to the extent of suggesting that China doesn't have
any wind farms.
FORREST: Yes. So, look, I find it humorous, but I've had a lot of fun with this. I've challenged chief executives and politicians. Look, the secretary
of state of commerce made a firebrand speech about how terrible Europe was, how great mining is. Mining is the best thing ever. And the mecca of them
all to save everyone's skin, is coal mining. And Europe was going to get it entirely wrong. They would probably lose their nations and their union.
And there was deathly silence. The end of the speech, I actually walked up to him and said, digger, I'd buy your oil. I'd buy your coal, but made it
just too expensive. I got to compete on the world stage. You are promoting something which, yes, great speech 10 or 15 years ago, but not now.
And he said, who are you? I said, I'm probably the biggest miner in the world. And he said, oh, Forrest. And I said -- I said, yes. And look,
honestly, you can rule out renewable energy, but at your peril, because economics -- all I care about is economics. So, you should care about for
your people's economics.
Economics are winning with green energy now.
QUEST: This is a -- is it a message that chief executives here are still willing to listen to, even if they pretend not to?
FORREST: Yes, they are. I mean, I've held three convenings, they have all been packed here. I've found very strong enthusiasm. Are they prepared to
put their head above the parapet? No. But I can't -- I remind them of their values. That's all I can do. But if they choose not to put their head above
the parapet, they are called, Richard.
QUEST: And that's really the quite a problem, though, because if people don't speak out, then, it becomes a less significant agenda.
FORREST: Yes. Well, I can assure you, I'm speaking out strongly, and I'm getting support from CEOs around the world. But they -- I agree with you.
Trump has achieved a conspiracy of fear, and I don't share that fear. I mean, I've considered it, but I don't share it.
QUEST: So, what is your message then this year?
FORREST: Fortescue is actually accelerating. Its path to going fully green to eliminating the burning of billion liters of diesel a year. We are
probably going to bring it forward, Richard, because the whole program is going super.
Well, A.I. has caught up with us. We are now able to use AI optimized grids. That means this really clever technology called renewable energy can
be managed on a grid scale, Richard, for the first time.
So, when we prove that we have gone fully green, we are saving money that we are undercutting our competitors every thinking boardroom and Cabinet
room in the world has got to take notice of that.
QUEST: And you are still mining.
FORREST: We are mining flat out. Mining flat out.
QUEST: It's such a phenomenal contradiction.
FORREST: Isn't it great? Yes.
QUEST: I mean, that -- the contradiction of what you are doing, which is the mining versus the way you are doing it.
FORREST: Yes. Yes, our trucks go around the world in total kilometers, it's probably twice a week. Now, they are going to be going around the world two
or three times a week, because we are a growing company.
QUEST: Right.
FORREST: A fast-growing company, and they will have no pollution. Our trains will have no pollution. A huge grid with multiple sites for
generation, multiple sites for consumption, like a small country, bigger than many medium sized cities. They -- that grid will be fully operating
green.
QUEST: One final area, which I just wanted to just touch on. This idea of rare earth minerals. We know the ones under Greenland are pretty
inaccessible, and it would cost a small fortune to get out.
FORREST: I got tournaments on Greenland.
QUEST: You have --
(CROSSTALK)
FORREST: We are not touching it. I mean, it's so expensive.
QUEST: Right. But there is no shortage of rare earth minerals in the world. It's just where they are.
FORREST: There is nothing rare about rare earths. I mean, Brazil has got a truckload. Australia has got a truckload. It's not the rare earths, it's
the processing.
That's it. I mean, there is nothing rare about rare earths. Common element in the Earth's crust, Richard.
I'll go red for the United States.
QUEST: All right.
FORREST: The Republican Party.
QUEST: OK.
FORREST: And I'm going to put here --
QUEST: Yes.
FORREST: -- what they need to listen to. And which is not bullshit, it's real, and it is economics.
[16:40:00]
That's what they need to listen to. Not just oil and gas is the best, because I said it was.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: What a great interview there.
Well, speaking of economics, economic uncertainty has weighed on cryptocurrencies in recent months. The CEO of banking group, Standard
Chartered, isn't worried, though. His interview with Richard Quest next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Travelers at London's Heathrow Airport are going to have a slightly easier time getting through security.
Thanks to a change in liquid container limits.
CNN's Anna Cooban, explains why passengers there can now board with a full bottle of shampoo.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Hallelujah. If you are flying from London's Heathrow Airport, you no longer have to fiddle about
trying to fit your makeup and teeny tiny toiletries into plastic bags at security. That's because the airport, which is one of the world's busiest,
just scrapped its rule that only permitted liquids in containers up to 100 milliliters packed in one transparent one-liter plastic bag in hand
luggage.
The move is part of a roughly $1.3 billion tech upgrade, where the airport has introduced new scanners that mean travelers can keep their liquids and
electronics inside their cabin bags. Heathrow said it's the largest airport in the world to fully roll out this scanning technology.
The 100-milliliter rule has been in place since 2006 after a failed terrorist plot to blow up several aircraft departing Heathrow.
Now, two decades later, Heathrow is allowing passengers to have containers holding up to two liters of liquid in their hand luggage. According to the
airport's estimates, getting rid of the old rule will save almost 16 million plastic bags every single year.
But the rules haven't changed everywhere. So, if, for example, you're traveling from Heathrow to an airport in the United States, you can bring
your 500-milliliter bottle of perfume on the way there, but you can't take it back in your hand luggage. So, travelers still need to check the rules
when flying from other airports around the world.
But Heathrow said at its airport, it expects the rule change to make for faster queues, less stress and a smoother start to journeys for millions of
travelers.
Anna Cooban, CNN, London.
KINKADE: Cryptocurrencies are struggling as investors turn away from riskier assets. For example, Bitcoin has lost more than 20 percent of its
value over the last six months.
The CEO of banking group's Standard Chartered is optimistic, though. He told Richard Quest in Davos that crypto is key to the future of money.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL WINTERS, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, STANDARD CHARTERED: Banking is now thoroughly digital.
[16:45:02]
What's coming next is that money itself, the actual instrument of money is becoming digital. So, it starts with cryptocurrencies.
QUEST: Yes.
WINTERS: But it's also not linked to a fiat currency. These things called stable coins or central bank digital currencies, or tokenized bank
deposits, there also cryptocurrencies, that they are tokens. Those are now being used to move money around the world, instantaneous, 24/7, indelible
ledger where these things can be tracked, financial crime can be screened out, et cetera. That's the future of money, and it's happening right now.
QUEST: How will that affect me?
WINTERS: If you don't already have it, you'll have a digital wallet, and your digital wallet will sit on your phone or on your -- on your computer,
and instead of tapping into your bank account, you are going to go into your digital wallet, which is not going to be owned by a bank, it's going
to be backed by digital money. And that digital payment can go anywhere in the world, instantaneously, with 100 percent traceability.
QUEST: Does that digital money have to be backed?
WINTERS: Well, this is going to be a part of the debate, because in the U.S. with a GENIUS Act --
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Right.
WINTERS: The digital money can only be issued by, basically, by private stable coin issuers.
QUEST: Which is backed.
WINTERS: It's invested in U.S. government securities. Let's hope that, that is always the case. It has to be audited. But that's the intention.
In Europe, they said, no, no, actually, we are going to issue these digital money from the Central Bank, the European Central Bank. The U.K., has been
a bit more agnostic, but said, yes -- but a tokenized bank deposit would also be fine.
QUEST: Do I need to understand all these machinations to use these?
WINTERS: Not, if you are a consumer. Not if we're doing our job well. We -- our job is to make it really easy for you to do what you want to do. And
you want it to be safe, you want it to be transparent, and you want it to be cheap. That's what you wanted, and that's what we have to give you.
QUEST: Isn't that now where the significance of and integrity of the players truly comes into force? Because --
(CROSSTALK)
WINTERS: Trust really matters. People love banks or they hate banks. I know that.
But one thing most people believe is the banks are pretty solid. There is a reason bank buildings are big, solid buildings with granite pillars,
because we want to demonstrate trust.
We are heavily regulated so that we can be trusted. So, banks have a real role to play. We are quite innovative as well. There is always going to be
a tech company that's more innovative on the margin at one point in time.
We are pretty innovative, but we are very trustworthy, and we are trusted by the state and by our clients.
QUEST: And that's crucial.
WINTERS: It's critical.
QUEST: That's -- it's not understood, in a sense.
WINTERS: It will be understood as these tools are really adopted in in the mainstream. They have been adopted thoroughly in the crypto world. In the
cryptocurrencies, it's 100 percent digital. But that's a very self- contained universe.
It's now branching into the Fiat world, or some people would call it TradFi, traditional finance. We are TradFi. But we are the most active
TradFi player in the crypto world. We are the third largest converter of cryptocurrency to fiat currency. So, we're the bridge. And that bridge is
going to become a multi lane highway.
QUEST: Come and join me. OK.
What gives you hope?
An appropriate one at the top of the pole.
WINTERS: I think this may be the year that we realize we can be peaceful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KINKADE: Well, still to come. Are you a daredevil or are you afraid of heights?
My next guest is the former Noah Kane is a professional climber. So, is Alex Honnold. He is attempting a historic climb tonight live on Netflix.
Noah and I will discuss it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:51:12]
KINKADE: Welcome back. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Netflix is upping the ante with its live programming in roughly three hours-time. Climber Alex Honnold will platform the headline -- will be the
headline performer on that platform.
He is going to attempt to scale the tallest building in Taiwan without any ropes or a safety net.
CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister asked Honnold about his 101-story climb. He says it's not as risky as people might think.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEX HONNOLD, CLIMBER: People look at the whole project and they are like, oh, it seems risky, but you're kind of like, or it seems dangerous, or
whatever. But I look at it as kind of like, it's not really that much different than what I do in day-to-day life as a -- as a professional rock
climber.
It's like, this is kind of normal. You go and you climb things that are inspiring, and you have a good time, you have adventures, and, you know,
it's all.
And it's interesting, because even from a live sports perspective, or something like a live T.V. perspective, I'm like, it's not that different
than watching, you know, like live football or MMA or other things like that.
And like the risk profile. I mean, it seems more dramatic because the consequences are so much higher, but the risk, the actual likelihood of
having an injury, are, I would say, you know -- I mean, I would say close to zero, like, basically zero. I feel like it's going to be fine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KINKADE: Sounding very confident.
Well, this you are looking at is Noah Kane. He has tackled his fair share of caves and cliffs and trees. He is a professional climber and a
filmmaker, as you can see some of his escapades there.
Welcome to the show, Noah.
NOAH KANE, PROFESSIONAL CLIMBER AND FILMMAKER: Thank you so much for having me, Lynda. Happy to be on here.
KINKADE: So, you are the definition of a daredevil scaling mountains and bridges with seemingly no fear.
What's your take on Netflix doing this live broadcast, as Alex attempts to scale Taiwan's tallest building with no harnesses, no nets, and no ropes?
KANE: Well, I would hardly characterize myself as a daredevil. I love climbing because you gradually expand your comfort zone until your comfort
zone, you know, includes things that you previously thought would feel impossible. This is something that Alex has said.
Obviously, he is been working the route over the past couple of days, gradually expanding his comfort zone. So, I have full confidence that this
is something that he is -- has a lot of confidence in, and I expect it to go pretty smoothly for him.
KINKADE: He certainly sounds very confident. But I'm wondering, Noah, considering the sort of climbs you've done, what are the risks involved for
Alex climbing this skyscraper that's 101 storeys high.
KANE: Well, obviously, the risk or the high consequence is falling off. But individually, what would make that happen would be either exhaustion or the
messing up of an individual move.
Now, because a building is pretty uniform like this. Obviously, I've never climbed a building like this before, but the moves are pretty going to be
the same over and over again, maybe three or four of the similar moves over and over again.
Really, exhaustion is the only thing that I would be worried about for him, specifically.
KINKADE: The thing I was worried about was the weather conditions. I just looked at the weather in Taipei. It's going to be cold and it's going to be
wet. Now, this climb is happening at 9:00 a.m. local time, which is 8:00 p.m. Eastern.
What could those conditions -- how could those conditions impact his climb?
KANE: Now, obviously, if the route itself is wet, fully wet, I believe that they would call it off. But humidity isn't too much of an issue here. I
believe Alex has said that a little bit of humidity actually will help the shoe rubber stick a little bit better to the metal and glass.
KINKADE: Wow. That's interesting.
And in terms of if something did go wrong, this broadcast is on a slight delay, about 10 seconds. From a safety perspective, what do you think the
producers at Netflix can do if something does go wrong?
[16:55:04]
KANE: If something does go wrong, well, we'll probably see the broadcast cut. There is running about a 10-second delay is what I hear. I think,
falling from that height would take about 10 seconds. I'm sure that there is going to be a ton of spectators on the ground filming with cell phones.
So, you know, that would be, obviously, extremely tragic.
But while the consequences of this are really high, climbers, mostly feel pretty confident in Alex that he wouldn't do something like this if he
wasn't fully confident. There is always a chance of something going wrong. But I would say that chance is pretty low, while the -- while the
consequences are still high, and it's quite dramatic looking.
KINKADE: So, Noah, if this does succeed, do you expect we'll see more live extreme sporting events like this on platforms like Netflix and others like
YouTube?
And how might it influence how audience experience these high-risk stunts?
KANE: As a climber, I hope that this is not too regular of an occurrence. Obviously, this is a special event. I love promoting climbing in a really
authentic way and showing what the average experience is for most climbers out there. That's sort of what I like to showcase. And this is a very
special, dramatized event. But personally, this wouldn't be how I would want to have climbing be the most publicized in the future.
You know, there is -- there is so many other aspects to climbing. And while this is a great way to bring people into the sport, I hope that any
newcomers realize that there is a whole world to explore aside from more of a stunt sort of like this.
KINKADE: Listening to you speak now and hearing Alex speak, you both sound very calm, very confident. What scares you?
KANE: Falling scares me. I was out climbing yesterday. I picked up actually kind of a scary fall. So, while even climbing with a rope, there is still
risk in climbing, which is something that people -- not a lot of people, realize, is that climbing is inherently risky, even if you are climbing
with a rope.
So, for me, I don't do a ton of soloing myself. I find that climbing with a rope still has plenty of risk and exciting moments for my adrenaline
receptors to handle.
KINKADE: So, will you be tuning into the Netflix special?
KANE: I will certainly be tuning in. I have nothing but respect for Alex and the way that he is been an ambassador for climbing in the past 15
years. He really knows how to put the sport out there in a good, authentic way. He knows how to promote the sport and get it publicized, but also stay
true to the values of climbing.
So, I really respect that. I'll be tuning in, and I wish him the best of luck.
KINKADE: Certainly, exciting. Sounds risky to me, but we'll see how it all goes, hopefully very smoothly.
Noah Kane, great to have you on the program, and great to get your perspective. Thank you very much.
Well, that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Lynda Kinkade. Stay safe. Have a great weekend. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
