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Quest Means Business
White House Border Czar Takes Over In Minnesota As Bovino Removed; More Republicans Call For Investigation Into Pretti's Death; British Prime Minister Keir Starmer To Visit China On Wednesday; Social Media Firms Head To Trial To Fight Addiction Claims; Experts Draw Similarities Between Social Media Lawsuit And Big Tobacco Trials. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired January 27, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:16]
MAX FOSTER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Hey, pretty mixed day for U.S. markets. The Dow has been dragged down by UnitedHealth stock, but that doesn't tell
the whole story because the NASDAQ and the S&P 500 both finished the day in the green. Those are the markets. These are the main events.
Pressure piling on the U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem as top Democrats call for her impeachment now after the bloodshed at the hands of
federal agents in Minneapolis.
The Federal Reserve begins its first policy meeting since the Trump administration launched its investigation into Chair Jerome Powell. I will
be speaking to a former Fed Chair about it.
And a landmark trial in California aims to hold tech giants accountable for social media addiction.
Live from London, it is Tuesday, January 27th. I am Max Foster, in for Richard Quest. This is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Right now, the U.S. President is in Iowa. He is set to speak at any moment as he tries to shift the conversation to the economy. The event is the
start of what his chief-of-staff says will be weekly domestic trips leading up to the midterm elections.
It comes as Democrats escalate pressure on the President after the second fatal shooting of a U.S. citizen by federal agents in Minnesota. Democratic
leaders said in a joint statement, "President Trump must immediately fire Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem," or they'll try to impeach her.
Warning, "We can do this the easy way or the hard way."
President Trump met with Secretary Noem at the Oval Office for two hours on Monday night. Sources say it was a candid conversation without revealing
any specifics, really, about what was discussed.
In Minnesota, Governor Tim Walz and Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey met with White House border czar, Tom Homan as he arrived in the state. The Governor
says he reiterated the need for a fair investigation into the recent shootings involving federal agents. President Trump echoed the need for an
investigation as he left for Iowa earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you believe that Alex Pretti's death was justified?
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, you know, we are doing a big investigation. I want to see the investigation. I
am going to be watching over it. I want to very honorable and honest investigation. I have to see it myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Let's go to Kevin Liptak in Washington.
Kevin, I wanted to start with this move by the Democrats moving in on Kristi Noem as she looks vulnerable. But you know, how secure is she?
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I mean, I think she is secure in her position in President Trump's administration today. The
President said that he didn't think that he would see her resign today. But of course, we know that the President can shift on a dime when it comes to
personnel.
Kristi Noem is someone who right now is certainly in the klieg lights, as it were when it comes to this crisis of politics that the President seems
to be experiencing and that is something that he always, I think, interprets somewhat negatively, if someone is casting a glare on what he
thinks are the successes of his administration, which is tamping down on illegal migration across the southern border.
And so, at least for now, Kristi Noem seems to be safe and the President said that earlier today in that meeting that took place for two hours in
the Oval Office last night. The President did not suggest to her that her job was in jeopardy, at least that's according to people who read out the
meeting to us afterwards.
There was another individual in that meeting who was Corey Lewandowski, who is a top aide of Kristi Noem's who does have something of a mixed
relationship with President Trump dating back many, many years. You know, it was interesting, the President was asked about this shakeup.
Just a few minutes ago, he was touring a restaurant in Iowa before he delivers those remarks on the economy, and he tried to downplay sort of the
importance of the shifts. He said, "I do that all the time. I shake up teams." And then he was referring to sort of the makeup of the crowd there.
The restaurant was called The Machine Shed.
He says that, "Everyone here, there are lots of owners of farms and places. You shake up your team if they can't do the crops fast enough." And so I
think perhaps a suggestion that Kristi Noem was not doing the job that he thought she should be doing, but at the same time, sort of downplaying the
idea that just the fact of him sending in Tom Homan to take over there was an indication that she was going to lose her job outright.
FOSTER: Is he going to address this tonight, do you think? It is meant to be about the economy this speech, but he has had economy speeches where he
hasn't spoken much about the economy in the past. So, how do so how do you think he is going to play this one?
[16:05:06]
LIPTAK: Right. You know, I think the President tends to give the same speech no matter where he is, whether it is at a farm in Iowa or whether it
is at the World Economic Forum in Davos, or whether it is, you know, speaking from Mar-a-Lago or whether he is at The White House, the President
doesn't necessarily tailor his remarks to the people that he is appearing in front of.
And clearly, it is this question of Minneapolis and the events that are happening there that has been so much in the focus over the last several
days. The President's advisers very much would like him to focus very squarely on the economy and on this question of affordability.
You know, Iowa is a state where this is, I think, very front of mind. You know, he is talking about the farmers. The farmers in Iowa have had quite a
tough go over the last 12 months, whether it was China refusing to buy soybeans from the United States because of this for tit-for-tat trade war,
or because they were having trouble hiring immigrant workers to help with their crops.
And so this has been a tough moment for these individuals that the President has said that he has done so much for. It is also going to be the
site of what is expected to be a pretty tight race for the Senate.
Senator Joni Ernst is retiring and the race to replace her is expected to be quite a tight one, perhaps tighter than expected in ruby red Iowa, the
state that has voted for the President three times over the last 10 years.
And so the President's focus, I think, for his advisers very much should be on the economy, whether that is actually what he comes out and talks about
remains to be seen.
FOSTER: Kevin, thank you.
Well, over in Minneapolis, there is newly released video of the moments leading up to the shooting to death of Alex Pretti. Before we show you
them, we want to warn you that the images may be disturbing to you.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
FOSTER: Here you can see the officer approached Pretti, forcibly pushing him away from the street. He appears to be recording the scene with his
phone when he shoved by an officer, and later a number of agents get him on the ground.
None of the videos seem to support the contention from some administration officials that Pretti or any nearby protesters posed a threat to federal
agents.
Josh Campbell, I am just wondering if you know, the President, like everyone else is looking at those videos, and the more we see, the less the
initial story from these agents matches up.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And you have to wonder, where did that narrative even come from initially, that White House
officials were saying that Alex Pretti was presenting a threat to these agents, that he had brandished a weapon. They also said that he was trying
to massacre these agents.
None of that do we -- we see none of that on any of these videos. In fact, more and more, this video that you just showed is so important because this
was the moments just before that actual shooting.
We all had a question, you know, what interactions might those agents have had with him prior to those actual gunshots and here you can see, they are
actually coming up. They are very aggressive. They are trying to push him off the street as he is there filming them.
The Department of Homeland Security said that the agents were engaged in some targeted enforcement operation whenever these demonstrators started
showing up. But this is a pattern that we've seen with a lot of these agents, these very aggressive tactics and we should also point out that,
you know, although he had a firearm on him, it was lawfully carried. He had a permit for the actual weapon. And again, nothing do we -- no indication
that he actually pulled that weapon out, fired on agents or attempted to fire on agents, which again raises the question where did they even get
this information?
Did they make it up? Or, you know, maybe even just as bad, did the agents that were there on the scene actually tell their bosses, no, he pulled out
a weapon and pointed it at us. Again, none of the video supports that.
FOSTER: Josh Campbell, appreciate it. Thank you so much.
The acting Director of ICE has been ordered to appear in a federal court this Friday. The Chief District Judge in Minnesota says the court's
patience is at an end and that Todd Lyons and other immigration officials have failed to comply with dozens of court orders in recent weeks.
The judge cited the case of a man who was ordered to be released or receive a bond hearing. A filing says the man remains in detention and has still
not received his hearing.
Jeff Swartz is a former judge and a Professor Emeritus at Thomas M. Cooley Law School. He joins me now.
Thank you so much for joining us, Professor. This is separate, isn't it, from the way that the ICE agents have been dealing with the protesters. We
are talking about what the ICE agents are in the city to do in the first place, and there seem to be a lot of problems there.
JEFF SWARTZ, FORMER JUDGE AND A PROFESSOR EMERITUS AT THOMAS M. COOLEY LAW SCHOOL: Yes, there are a lot of problems.
First of all, Border Patrol agents really are not trained to operate in an urban environment, and for whatever the reasons are, they get away with
this kind of rough housing to people that are trying to cross the border that they are taking into custody at that point.
I think that the real problem here is that they have been let loose. They were being, I think, encouraged by Bovino and Stephen Miller
surreptitiously to do whatever they had to do and we always have your back.
[16:10:11]
And when guns started going off, they had their back and the truth of the matter is that what the story that came out from Bovino and from Kristi
Noem was actually the same story that they used in the killing of Miss Good. The whole idea that we will paint a picture of them as being
dangerous and interfering with the officers, and they got what they deserved. That's kind of the attitude that they've been using, and that's
not going to work here. It just isn't going to work.
QUEST: Well, you know, it is a scary idea that the courts can't even hold them to account, but that's been the case up until now because they are
ignoring these court orders.
SWARTZ: I don't think that that's going to last much longer. That's Bovino for the most part. Homan has said in the past that court orders will be
obeyed. I don't think Trump wants to have his people disobeying court orders at this point.
The fact of the matter is that as far as the public is concerned, they don't like what's going on, and it is getting worse. So, something has to
happen to turn some of this around and he is just going to have to obey the court orders.
The real court order that I am interested in is not so much what this judge is doing in trying to get them to do certain things like let people go. I
am concerned about the evidence. I want to make sure that that evidence is preserved. I want to make sure that that evidence is made available to the
state. Those are the things -- those are the court orders that I am more interested in than anything else.
FOSTER: You're talking about the evidence from the scenes of these fatal shootings. Right?
SWARTZ: Both of them. Yes.
FOSTER: Yes, and we don't know where that evidence even is at this point, do we? And how well it has been preserved.
SWARTZ: No, we don't, and actually, the way that apparently the people that work for the city of Minnesota Police Department were observing from the
outside said they were -- the feds were processing the scene in such a scattered way that they don't think the evidence has been preserved
properly by chain of evidence that is how it was handled. They don't know where the evidence is.
We don't know where the -- for example, the bullets that hit the victim in this particular case where they are, who did the autopsy, what happened to
the projectiles? Very important evidence. What happened to the guns that these officers had with them? And why were at least two of these officers
removed from Minnesota and sent someplace else where the Minnesota authorities can't get to them?
FOSTER: Yes, so, I mean, are you suggesting there that Bovino is being protected by being pulled out?
SWARTZ: Yes.
FOSTER: Yes.
SWARTZ: That's exactly what happened, because they should have been put on administrative leave.
FOSTER: Because the narrative is that he is being punished by being pulled out, but you're -- you know, you've got a different narrative.
SWARTZ: No, they are not being punished because what happens in every other police department is, when an officer is involved in a shooting, he is
immediately put on administrative leave or administrative duty, sitting at a desk. He is not allowed to go back on the streets.
And Mr. Bovino made it clear on Sunday that two of these gentlemen that were involved in the shooting, probably the shooters were removed from
Minnesota and put on active duty in the field someplace else and that should never happen until the investigation is over.
FOSTER: Jeff Swartz, fascinating insight. Thank you so much for joining us today from Florida.
SWARTZ: My pleasure. Thank you.
FOSTER: Now, coming up, the mother of all trade deals, the E.U. celebrates a Free Trade Agreement with India, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:16:43]
FOSTER: The European Union and India have reached a landmark trade deal. It is the latest example of economies forging ahead on trade -- free trade
without the U.S.
The President of the European Commission says it is a show of confidence in a rules-based cooperation system.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
URSULA VON DER LEYEN, EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESIDENT: We delivered the mother of all deals. We are creating a market of two billion people, and
this is the tale of two giants, the world's second and fourth largest economies, two giants who choose partnership in a true win-win fashion -- a
strong message that cooperation is the best answer to global challenges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOSTER: Anna Cooban joins me. They took their time.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Yes. Well, this trade deal was two decades in the making. On and off, these negotiations between
India and the E.U. that they were going on for. And so I think the timing is really interesting, Max. I mean, we see the turmoil in the global
trading system really unleashed by The White House, and so it is kind of no surprise that you're getting these massive economies, India and the
European Union, trying to forge closer ties.
And this deal specifically, it is going to lower tariffs on E.U. cars and machinery and wine, and on India, they are going to see their tariffs cut
in some key sectors like textiles.
And I think it is interesting, too, that some analysts are saying actually the economic impact for both of these parties won't be that huge, but
really, it is the symbolism. It is the meaning behind the fact that they are clearly diversifying their trading partners.
QUEST: So, this deal may not have happened if Donald Trump hadn't imposed tariffs on the European Union and India. I mean, he has hit India really
hard, hasn't he?
COOBAN: Yes. Last year we saw tariffs on India be hiked up to 50 percent. Now, this was a so-called secondary sanction. Trump was trying to punish
India for continuing to buy Russian oil. It was a tactic to try to get -- to really target Russian trading partners, to try and get Russia to stop
the war in Ukraine. There was that.
And then the E.U. as well has dealt with lots of tariff threats, the latest of which came last week. It has since been dropped, but this shows you just
how changeable the U.S. president is, and you can't really rely on the U.S. right now, and so that changeability that's really what is pushing these
countries to try and make these deals.
FOSTER: We've seen it a bit with the politics, but now we are seeing it with economics, which is America's actions, is forcing its allies to work
more closely together.
COOBAN: Yes, and I think perhaps the irony in this is that because the U.S. is becoming more protectionist, erecting these barriers, these tariffs,
actually it is trading partners, its longtime allies as well, are becoming more globalized. They are creating more deals with each other, and also
Donald Trump is pushing U.S. allies, traditional allies into the arms of China in some ways.
I mean, we've seen obviously, Starmer tomorrow going to China. He is going to go with a delegation of business leaders from 50 U.K. businesses.
Canada, as well, signed a cooperation pact with China recently.
So, I think there has been long running consequences from Trump's trade war.
QUEST: Yes. Okay, Anna, thank you so much.
President Trump has made it clear that he wants the Federal Reserve to lower interest rates. On Wednesday, the Central Bank is expected to resist
his pressure campaign, and leave rates unchanged. The Fed's Open Market Committee is holding its first policy meeting of the year, and the first
since the Department of Justice opened an investigation into the Fed Chair, Jerome Powell.
[16:20:02]
I am joined by former Fed Vice Chairman, Alan Blinder. He is the -- he served in the 90s when Alan Greenspan was Governor. He is now Professor of
Economics at Princeton.
I really appreciate you joining us.
We are an interesting situation here, aren't we?
ALAN BLINDER, FORMER FEDERAL RESERVE VICE CHAIRMAN, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT PRINCETON: My pleasure. Sure.
FOSTER: We all know Trump wants interest rates to come down. The Fed is trying to assert its independence. So, if it was going to reduce them, it
might look like it is not independent anymore. I mean, it is a really messy situation, isn't it?
BLINDER: I think that's right. I think if Donald Trump hadn't said anything, I think the Fed is probably not going to lower interest rates
anyway because it has done it three times and I think it is in a highly rational, I would say, pause to wait and see what happens.
There may be more cuts down the road if the economy looks weak, but they may not be. But the fact that the President is browbeating the Fed, even to
the point of threatening a criminal investigation, which is ridiculous, is just going to stiffen their backs.
FOSTER: How much of a distraction is that Powell investigation?
BLINDER: I think -- well, let me give you two answers to that. I was about to say, I think not much for most people. For Jay Powell, it is. I mean, if
you get a criminal investigation, you've got a lawyer up. You've got to try to figure out what in the world they're after you for and disprove it.
I have never been the subject of a criminal investigation, but I gather it is a time consumer.
FOSTER: So President Trump expected to announce a successor, aren't they to him in the coming weeks. You're going to be a frontrunner if you support
Donald Trump, but at the same time, that's going to undermine the confidence of the Fed. It is an incredibly difficult situation, isn't it?
I know that the BlackRock executive, Rick Reed is the latest name to appear.
BLINDER: Yes. I don't know him at all. What I've been told is that he is a smart guy and a rich guy also, by the way. But doesn't know -- he has never
been involved in monetary policy or macroeconomics in any way and never served in government in any way.
So, those don't seem like quite the credentials that you want. But, you know, literally, I don't know the man.
FOSTER: Yes, well, we will wait to see if he is confirmed. Meanwhile, more Trump's -- sorry, more tariffs being thrown at other countries. South Korea
is the latest one, Canada is facing potentially a hundred percent tariffs, doubling the price of products crossing the border.
How has the Fed meant to sort of make its projections when it doesn't know what's going to come next like this?
BLINDER: Well, that's a very good question that they have been grappling with throughout this Trump presidency.
FOSTER: Is there a system for projections you can't --
BLINDER: It is very hard. Look, I mean, you mentioned Canada and that's been, you know, on again off again a hundred percent, 25 percent. China is
an even more extreme. Remember at one point the President was talking about 145 percent tariff on some Chinese things and he changes his mind.
Now, fortunately, these little -- these changes don't have immediate effects on the inflation rate. So, you have a little time to think about it
and especially if he changes his mind. And on Tuesday says a hundred percent, an on Thursday he says 20 percent. Well, you probably didn't do
anything about that in your analysis.
But in general, when you have no idea whether tariffs are going to land, it does make monetary policy and other things by the way, just doing business
rather more complicated.
FOSTER: What are the chances that Donald Trump might actually get what he wants from the Fed based on the economic predictions and there might be
rate cuts, and if so, how many do you think there might be this year?
BLINDER: Yes, there might be, but Donald Trump is not going to get what he is asking for.
As you know, he has been talking about a one percent interest rate, Federal Funds Rate, one percent. He is not getting that. If there are more cuts
this year, I would guess it is only one or two. If the economy starts really weakening seriously, it could be more than that, but it is not going
to bring it down to one percent unless there is a total catastrophe, and it looks like were going into a depression. I guess, I should say that. I
certainly don't think that's the case. It would be shocking if it were.
FOSTER: Yes, Alan Blinder, thank you so much for joining us today with your insights on a very complex issue.
BLINDER: You're very welcome.
FOSTER: Now, we are learning how the U.S. plans to shape Venezuela's future following the capture of former President Nicolas Maduro. Multiple sources
exclusively telling CNN that the CIA is establishing a permanent U.S. presence on the ground there.
[16:25:05]
They say the State Department will plant the flag, but the CIA will quietly spearhead the effort to exert U.S. influence.
The U.S. is also pushing for access to Venezuela's vast oil reserves. But the CEO of Crescent Petroleum says American energy policy is more
complicated than that.
Majid Jafar spoke about that with Richard last week in Davos.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAJID JAFAR, CEO, CRESCENT PETROLEUM: The thing about the U.S. energy system, it is all private sector led. So renewables is, you know, still
growing in many states, including in places like Texas. What we've seen with his administration here in all the meetings here in Davos and they
came a few days earlier and they've been extremely active, more active than I've ever seen a U.S. administration ever in Davos and I've been coming for
15 years is and all of the above approach when it comes to energy is important, and a rational approach.
And it is not just, you know, we thought in the energy industry that it would be America First and America Only and pushing U.S. LNG exports. No,
they really want more energy from the whole world for A.I., but also for prosperity.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The problem with, of course, the way this policy is now being implemented is it is the
collateral in a sense. It is the Maduro extraction to get the Venezuelan oil. It is whether or not the minerals out of Greenland or whatever. It is
the policies that are going with it, rather than the pure energy play per se.
JAFAR: So, my understanding on the renewable side, it is a scaling back of some subsidies. They are not banning anything and actually the U.S. is
leading in all forms of energy, in natural gas and oil. What we've seen in the Middle East where we operate is a much stronger U.S. engagement.
Weve just finished a gas project in the north of Iraq, for example, that had U.S. government finance support that's achieving electricity for eight
million people 24/7 and reducing emissions and that's been the agenda that Chris Wright, the Energy Secretary; Doug Burgum, the Interior Secretary who
came to Abu Dhabi recently that they've been pushing.
QUEST: Is it the right message that fossil fuel extraction of energy is still being promoted in this way?
We all -- look, don't get me wrong. We all know that were going to have to this for the next 50 years above, but when the priorities shift and the
emphasis shifts, then the, if you will, the will to go green, what the President calls the green scam, then it gets lost.
JAFAR: Yes, so if we look back at what actually happened --
QUEST: Right.
JAFAR: -- in our attempt to tackle climate, we starved finance of the supply while demand kept growing up. That's like trying to tackle obesity
by stopping funding farmers while you don't change your diet. We ended up with energy shocks, price spikes, and the developing countries burnt more
coal because they couldn't afford the gas because the price had gone up so much, so emissions went up, too. So, we failed on all three legs of the so-
called energy trilemma.
So, actually, you need the gas to back up the renewables and that that's like the fastest way as nuclear for some countries, but it is quite
expensive to bring down emissions. It is how the U.K. did it, it is how the U.S. did it. It is how were seeing -- we don't burn coal in the Middle
East, but replacing liquid fuels with natural gas is improving prosperity and driving down emissions.
The gas we produce in the Middle East avoids more CO2 emissions than two million electric cars.
QUEST: You know the problem I have, I have done panels at various events, when we start talking about the methane and we start talking about the LNG
and how LNG is actually -- and I actually was in one group where one climate adviser said, you know, I'd rather you burn coal than some of these
gases.
JAFAR: I mean --
QUEST: But you're familiar with this, aren't you?
JAFAR: Well, it is a nonsense argument. I mean, natural gas is less than half the emissions of coal and none of the NOx and the SOx, which are the
most polluting aspects.
Methane emissions absolutely have to come down, and the OGDC, Oil and Gas Decarbonization Charter is aimed to do that. We brought ours down to 0.12
percent. We've got the lowest carbon footprint per unit in the Middle East and we've achieved net zero production in 2021 across our operations.
But the value of the gas is how it replaces the dirtier fuel and backs up the renewables and that's the case everywhere.
QUEST: What gives you hope?
JAFAR: I will be a little bit unoriginal -- circular economy -- because you know, despite all the geopolitics and all the trade wars, we keep seeing
upgrades and outlooks on the world economy.
QUEST: Yes!
JAFAR: On my region's economy, the U.S. economy. And we've just heard that, so I think that's what gives me hope.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOSTER: Richard there in Davos.
Jury selection underway in Los Angeles for a landmark trial against social media companies. They are being accused of knowingly harming young people's
mental health. A report from outside the courthouse next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:33:06]
FOSTER: TikTok has agreed to settle a landmark lawsuit that accuses social media of harming young people's mental health. That's according to the
plaintiff's lawyer. A mother and daughter filed the suit against Meta, YouTube, TikTok and Snap. Jury selection is now underway in Los Angeles.
Snap settled the lawsuit last week under undisclosed terms. Executives from Meta and YouTube, though, are expected to take the stand in the coming
weeks.
Clare Duffy is outside the courthouse in Los Angeles.
So at least two of the companies are willing to fight this. How are they going to defend their case, do you think?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH CORRESPONDENT: Well, Max, both Meta and YouTube and really also Snap and TikTok have said publicly that they deny this idea
that their platforms addict and harm the mental health of young users. They point to features that they've rolled out in recent years, like parental
control tools, content restrictions. Just a few weeks ago, YouTube rolled out a new tool for parents to limit the amount of time that their kids can
scroll on its short-form video feature.
But this is, of course, not the first time that we've heard these kinds of claims. We've seen families and advocates and tech whistleblowers for years
raising alarms about the impact of these platforms and of features like late-night notifications and endlessly scrolling feeds on young users.
We've also repeatedly seen tech executives called before Congress, even Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg two years ago apologizing to families who say
their children have been harmed by tech platforms.
And that is why the parents I've spoken to say it's so important that soon the jury here will have a chance to decide if these companies have done
enough to protect young users.
FOSTER: It could have a huge -- you know, impact, the outcome of this case, couldn't it? For the industry. I understand there are something like 1,000
similar personal injury cases waiting to go to court, and this case would potentially define the outcome of those as well.
DUFFY: That's exactly right.
[16:35:00]
This KGM case, as it's being known, is what's called a bellwether case. So whatever happens, the outcome of this trial could set the stage for
resolutions of those hundreds of other cases. I spoke with the plaintiff's lawyer, Mark Lanier, this morning outside of the courthouse, and he said
that he hopes these settlements with Snap and TikTok could set the stage for settlements in these other cases with those companies.
And then whatever the outcome is with Google and Meta in this trial, again, could set the stage for resolutions in those other cases. And he said also
could force these companies to make changes to how their platforms operate.
I also spoke yesterday with Juliana Arnold. She became an advocate on this issue after her 17-year-old daughter, Coco, died. Juliana told me that Coco
connected with an older man on Instagram who offered to sell her Percocet. Those pills ended up being laced with fentanyl, leading to Coco's death.
And Juliana told me about why this moment is so important for so many families. Take a listen to what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIANA ARNOLD, FOUNDING MEMBER, PARENTS RISE!: These cases and these trials are so important to us, because they're finally going to hold these
tech companies accountable for their knowledge, their design and their choices they made and the trade-offs they made at, you know, at the risk of
our own children being harmed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DUFFY: So, so many families will be watching what happens here. This trial is expected to last about six weeks, and we are expected to hear from
executives from both Google and Meta taking the stand during this trial -- Max.
FOSTER: They must be looking forward to that because presumably in the past, when they've made complaints to the platforms, they're speaking to
either bots or, you know, moderators of some kind who are working at quite a low level. But this is a chance to really go to the top of those
companies and speak to the faces behind them.
DUFFY: That's exactly right. They are looking forward to hear, especially from Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg, who is expected to take the stand at this
point on February 9th. And many of the parents like Juliana that I've spoken to said they do want to hear directly from these companies. They
want to better understand how much these companies knew about the potential risks of their platforms to young users.
We've seen a number of internal documents released in the course of this litigation that the plaintiffs say point to the idea that these platforms
were aware of the risks. And again, it's going to be really interesting to see how the jury considers all of that against what the companies are
saying, which is that there's no causation between the platforms and these mental health impacts.
FOSTER: OK, Clare, thank you so much for joining us outside the courthouse.
Experts are comparing this trial to those brought against big tobacco now in the 1990s. It's that big tobacco companies were accused of marketing
their products to young people. A settlement was reached after evidence came out that big tobacco knew its products were addictive and dangerous.
Some fear social media companies are taking a similar path, drawing in youth with addictive algorithms and features.
Dr. Daniel Bober is a psychiatrist and the chief medical officer at Odyssey Behavioral Healthcare. He's also a certified addiction medicine physician.
Thank you for joining us. I mean, what do you think about the comparison to big tobacco? It's almost as if the media companies have got that in mind
because they're saying they're deliberately not marketing to young people now, they're preventing them from getting on the site as much as they can
if they're seeing harmful material.
DR. DANIEL BOBER, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, ODYSSEY BEHAVIORAL HEALTHCARE: Well, you know, Max, I think big tobacco is actually an excellent analogy.
This case is not about willpower. It's about apps that are designed to overpower it. And we don't need a diagnosis to know that there is a
problem. If you think of the human brain, especially in children, you can think of it as a car, right? You have the limbic system, which is the
reward system, and that's the gas. And you have something called the prefrontal cortex, which is the brakes.
So in children you have all gas and almost no brakes. So for these companies to say that we should be using parental controls and that's going
to save us is like giving someone a car that has no brakes and throwing in a helmet. So there has to be some sense of corporate responsibility and a
commitment to public health to protect children. And I don't think we're seeing it here.
FOSTER: I mean, responsibility is key here, isn't it? Whilst there may be, you know, evidence of addiction, how responsible is the company for that?
How responsible is the user? How responsible are the parents?
BOBER: Well, listen, I think we all have to pitch in. We all have to contribute. We childproof medicine bottles, we childproof toys, we
childproof car seats. This is really about commonsense regulation. Sure, the parents play a role. And I can tell you as a child psychiatrist, I see
a lot of parents who aren't using the parental controls. But there's a lot these companies can do. They can turn off autoplay, they can turn off
infinite scrolling.
There can be hard endpoints, time limits, no push alerts after a certain time at night. These kids are sleep deprived and sleep is critical for kids
for their mental health in terms of emotional regulation and learning.
[16:40:07]
So all these things are things that we can do to be more responsible and to protect children because these apps are like oxygen. Over 90 percent of
children are using them. And we need to be thinking on the level of public health.
FOSTER: Australia is an interesting example, isn't it? They've banned it for under 16s, and there's been lots of suggestion, anecdotal suggestion
that it's been good for kids, but there's also been lots of evidence that they found ways around the ban and still managed to get on social media.
But what do you think we can, you know, this case can learn from what's happening in Australia?
BOBER: Listen, I don't doubt that kids will find a way. They always find a way. They're very resourceful. And I actually, as a child psychiatrist,
maybe my perception is a little bit skewed, but I don't think that it's been good for kids. I think it's been a menace for kids' mental health,
especially kids who are already suffering from problems with depression, anxiety, body image.
But I think that these companies will just at least meet us halfway and change these behavioral algorithms so they're not so engaging and so
reinforcing. I think everyone can enjoy the benefits without suffering the harms.
FOSTER: Do you see some benefits of social media? There's been a lot of commentary in Australia, for example, that insular children have managed to
find communities on there and that's been taken away from them and that's been harmful.
BOBER: I do see benefit, and to be clear, no one is saying that these apps cause mental illness, but it's sort of the fuel that's on the fire. And in
kids who are already vulnerable -- and kids who are already vulnerable it is definitely contributing to it. And I do think there are some benefits. I
think in a lot of ways it does improve social connection and improve the cohesiveness of communities. So it's not all bad. It's not black and white.
But we need to do better. And these companies need to do better.
FOSTER: Dr. Daniel Boer, you'll be watching the case closely, as will we. Thank you so much for joining us.
Now, mix close on Wall Street. The S&P closed at a record high. Earnings in (INAUDIBLE) helped lift the Nasdaq higher. The Dow lost 408 points. The
healthcare stocks really helped drag the Dow lower. UnitedHealth Group fell 20 percent. That's the response to Medicare rates proposed by the Trump
administration. CVS down 14 percent. Humana also down 20 percent.
And that is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. Up next, Richard's "World of Wonder."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:35]
QUEST: I'm Richard Quest. I love traveling the world. And I'm not done yet.
It's time to embrace new adventures.
This doesn't get much better than this, doesn't it?
Seize the moment in this WORLD OF WONDER.
Winter in Norway's capital city comes with a couple of challenges. It's cold. Seriously cold. And there is limited daylight. And it rains. But here
in Oslo, the people make the most with whatever they are confronted. They turn potential adversity into opportunity. Some may choose to hibernate and
wait for the summer. Others wrap up warm, head out and enjoy. It might be cold outside, but there's plenty of heat and fun to be had behind closed
doors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready?
QUEST: As ready as I'm ever going to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No pressure.
QUEST: No pressure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No pressure.
QUEST: I'm just going to blow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
QUEST: What the hell is he doing this?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you make it longer?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Longer?
QUEST: Terrifying.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait, wait, wait. No, no, you have to get out a little bit. More, more, more. Are you blowing? Are you doing? Blow, blow, blow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't see you. Keep going, pal. Harder.
QUEST: What the hell happened?
I've come to (INAUDIBLE) Glass, where they've been blowing glass since 1762. We think this makes it Norway's oldest continuously operating
industrial company if you will. And there's no one around to contradict me. They've say I can watch and learn, and then attempt to make any piece I
see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You add on the color and then we will roll it here and it will be a beautiful pattern.
QUEST: First, some ground rules.
Hang one. When did that suddenly get very big?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're mixing colors.
QUEST: Is that the same one?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
QUEST: How did that suddenly grow?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).
QUEST: Stop it. Shall we get all these (INAUDIBLE) all these, get all of these juvenile sophomoric, just get rid of the mountains. OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to heat something up.
QUEST: Just get it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like it. I can't help myself.
QUEST: You won't be able to?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no.
QUEST: Get it out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll try.
QUEST: So to speak.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what she said. Come on, let's go.
QUEST: All right.
Amongst these beauties one has caught my eye.
What do you think, James?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like that. Yes, you can put that in the corner of the kitchen, fire island with the box held.
QUEST: Something. Yes. Yes, it's all right. So all of that in there is glass.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes.
QUEST: And it stays melter all night?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
QUEST: I was just about to say it's just like the kettle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Turn around, turn around.
QUEST: That can't be. This is terrifying. The heat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's it, buddy. Roll it.
QUEST: What are you doing? It's terrifying. Watch. Oh, here we go, here we go. And we're off. It is so difficult to do. And the thing I always
remember about this is just bear in mind. It's only got to touch you, and you will just be in agony for days. Weeks. That is so hot. And he's holding
the bloody thing.
[16:50:02]
This is real artistry. Oh, we're doing the colors. I'm being really difficult here. The problem is, the problem is they asked me. If they
hadn't asked me, I'd have just gone along with it. But they asked me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and that's important because we want you to be happy.
QUEST: Oh, look at this. Yes, but once it's blown, they start patting it and they start moving it, and they start hitting it and making it into a
shape. Is it a blow like a balloon or blow like a trumpet? Have you ever blown a trumpet? Exactly. I've never sure whether it's a or a --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More like a didgeridoo, I think.
QUEST: Sorry?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didgeridoo.
QUEST: Yes, yes, like a didgeridoo. That's exactly it. Like a didgeridoo. Can you play a didgeridoo? Have you ever tried?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have, it's an art.
QUEST: And with that I took to my mini stage and, well, you've seen what happens next. Basically, I blew and disappeared in a puff of smoke.
The good craftspeople here tolerated our nonsense for only so long. After we left they would be free to get back to making seriously beautiful
glassware. Oh, look at that. I should know because two weeks after my visit, that vase in which I had such a limited role in creating arrived at
my flat, a permanent reminder of Oslo's understated excellence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: What possesses people to strap skis on their feet, hurtle down a slope and launch into the yonder. There are undoubtedly easier ways of
getting down a mountain.
In Norway, the people are, by and large, pretty normal, well ordered, and are generally prosperous society. And then something snaps and they become
obsessed by ski jumping.
Why do people want to do it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, look, Richard, up here quick. This is it. Yes, this is the start.
QUEST: Oh, no. God, James, could you -- no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at that.
QUEST: Oy gevalt. What do you make of it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, you watch it on TV and it is pretty special what they do. There's nothing that I'd want to try.
QUEST: Holmenkollen hosted the sport at the Olympic Games in 1952. The ski jump is terrifying and I'm only here to view. Scary at the best of times,
it becomes wicked when shrouded in fog. Don't worry, they wouldn't let me jump off even if I was stupid enough to try. You have to be licensed before
you can embark on this madness.
Standing at the top of Holmenkollen, it's an interesting combination of the raw physics of the whole ski jump. The porcelain tracks, the speed you'll
get to, the gradient, the angle you'll take off with all known variables, along with the completely unknown, which is the human factor, which is
sheer terror and intimidation at this thing that you're going to launch yourself off, but other people will.
[16:55:16]
The only question that nags me, why did anyone ever want to try ski jumping in the first place? Time for A.I. The ChatGPT.
Why did anyone even think about ski jumping in the first place? A perfectly reasonable question from someone not born in the Norwegian winter. Don't
get sassy. It wasn't invented as a sport. It was a practical skill. They needed to move fast over deep snow to hunt, fight and travel. Downhill run
outs were inevitable. If you hit a snow ridge, you jumped whether you meant to or not. At some point realize if I lean forward and land on both skis, I
don't die. That was the birth of ski jumping.
When it comes to A.I., I'm clearly a novice, but I will persist to see how it will enhance our travel experiences. Ski jumping? Absolutely best left
to the professionals. And so is another popular winter sport of which I am useless.
CAMILLA GJERSEM, FIVE-TIME NORWEGIAN FIGURE SKATING CHAMPION: My name is Camilla Gjersem and I'm five-time Norwegian champion and I also
participated in the European Championship.
QUEST: Here in Norway, people just love snow skating.
GJERSEM: We love ice. We love snow, being outdoors. Arms out, look up, and then you push.
QUEST: It became obvious this is for those who know what they are doing, and I am not one of them. There are no penguins to hold on to. Not even a
barrier to grab.
GJERSEM: Yes.
QUEST: Nope. Even the children were skating circles around me.
Oh. Oh, grande elegante.
You can either skate here or you can't.
Bravo.
And I can't. I escaped without any broken bones or twisted ankles, which, by any definition, is a successful end to a hectic few days in Oslo.
And before I leave, the person who never received the Nobel Peace Prize, Mahatma Gandhi, nominated five times, never awarded.
For a city that is understated, whose own marketing campaign is Oslo, it's not for everyone, I promise you, there are plenty of interesting and
intriguing things to come and discover. Two words that best describe it, and you'll want to come here and be interested and intrigued for yourself.
Whether there's snow on the ground or not. Oslo, definitely part of our WORLD OF WONDER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
