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Quest Means Business
Trump Directs Federal Agencies To Stop Working With Anthropic; Dorsey On Mass Layoffs: Most Companies Will Follow Our Lead; Bill Clinton: I Saw Nothing And Did Nothing Wrong; Paramount Outbids Netflix For Warner Brothers Discovery; Developer Accidentally Hacks Into 7,000 Robot Vacuums; Whistleblower Worked On Programs That Suppressed China's Religious Minorities. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired February 27, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:30]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Not a great day or way to end the week for the markets here after U.S. wholesale inflation was higher than
expected. I will point out, look, we are off the lows, still, there is a lot that is worrying this market those are the markets and these are the
main events.
President Trump says he is directing all government agencies to stop using Anthropic's technology, as the A.I. giant looks set to reject the
Pentagon's demands.
Paramount shares popped 20 percent as it prevails in the battle for Warner Bros Discovery, CNN's parent company, and Richard Quest, you would want to
stick around for this, ranks all his all-time favorite planes. I am going to be listening closely.
Live from New York, it is Friday, February 27th. I am Paula Newton, in for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
And good evening. The news just into CNN, President Trump says he is directing all federal agencies to stop working with Anthropic. He posted on
Truth Social just in the last few minutes that the company made a "disastrous mistake," trying, in his words, to strong arm the Pentagon.
Anthropic has been at odds with the Defense Department over restrictions on how its A.I. can be used.
Hadas Gold has been following this fast breaking story, not just in the last few hours, but the last few days. I mean, we were getting very close
to that 5:00 deadline. I know you said you were getting indications that Anthropic was not going to capitulate. So, where does this go now? This
seems to have really escalated in the last hour.
HADAS GOLD, CNN A.I. CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this was a big escalation because what the Pentagon had been threatening up until now was that they were
going to deem the Pentagon a supply chain risk for the military, from what we understand and that would have meant that anybody who is working with
the military would have to prove that they weren't working with Anthropic.
But now, President Trump has escalated this by a hundred and saying that the entire federal government has to stop working with anthropic, saying we
don't need it, we don't want it.
He is saying that there will be a six-month phaseout period, because in a lot of these systems, Claude is being used a lot and it is well-liked by a
lot of people in the government. It is a good product that they are enjoying using.
But he is saying Anthropic better get their act together and be helpful during this phase-out period, or he will use the full power of the
presidency to make them comply with major civil and criminal consequences to follow, saying that we decide the fate of our country, not some out-of-
control radical left A.I. company.
I should note that Anthropic has kind of been in the crosshairs for this administration for some time. They've called it a woke A.I. David Sacks,
the A.I. czar in The White House, has called Anthropic leaders sort of doomers on the A.I. situation, so in a way, this is sort of like a helpful
political pawn for The White House to use when it comes to punishing anthropic.
But what I am really curious to see is how companies like OpenAI are now going to respond, because OpenAI came out this morning saying that they
agreed with Anthropic on those red lines about autonomous weapons and about mass surveillance of Americans, saying that they have those same concerns
and there are negotiations with the Pentagon.
So I've asked OpenAI if they have a reaction to what the President just posted in the last few minutes, and whether that will affect their
negotiations with the Pentagon or their negotiations with the government, are we going to end up in a situation where the only A.I. that the federal
government can use is Elon Musk's Grok from his xAI company? It is possible.
NEWTON: And Hadas, in terms of Sam Altman himself, OpenAI, they might be competitors. But as you were just explaining, this poses a problem for The
Pentagon because now it seems that the A.I. companies at the forefront of all of this innovation are in agreement.
GOLD: Yes, it is sort of a rare moment that these rivals, and if you remember Dario Amadei and Sam Altman wouldn't even hold hands in that scene
at the India A.I. Summit where there, all the leaders were on stage together and they kind of very awkwardly refused to hold hands with one
another.
These are deep rivals. There is bad blood between the two of them. Dario left OpenAI over concerns of A.I. development over concerns over safety and
here is Sam Altman saying, you know what? I think that they're doing the right thing here and we agree with their concerns. We have the same
concerns as well.
For the government, that could be an issue, though. If they refuse to work with Anthropic over these red lines and OpenAI has the same red lines,
those are really like -- and next to Google, those are some of the best A.I. models that we have out there right now.
I mean, the coding systems that Anthropic has, the coding systems that OpenAI have, they're often seen really like kind of each one is inching
ahead of the other on all of these benchmark tests that they have on these things.
[16:05:02]
So, if you want your government to have the best possible, you know, best quality tools at their disposal, but you're refusing to work with the best
out there, then what are you going to be left with?
One thing we haven't heard from is Google. They also have a model that a lot of people think is quite good, Gemini. Different areas that they're
considered good in, but it is going to be interesting to hear if Google finally now speaks up in all of this.
NEWTON: Yes, and we will see as well what the government's next move is because there are other things that they can do if they really want to
prove their point, not just with Anthropic, but the other A.I. companies.
Hadas Gold for us, really appreciate it.
Now, U.S. stocks have just wrapped up their worst month in nearly a year. The Dow closed 500 points lower. The NASDAQ was down more than one percent.
Investors are increasingly anxious about the potential disruption from A.I., and new inflation numbers are also flashing a possible warning sign.
Wholesale prices rose more than expected from December to January. The Producer Price Index is viewed as a possible sign of where consumer prices
are heading.
Meantime, firms are investing staggering amounts in A.I. OpenAI said on Friday that it raised $110 billion in its latest funding round. That's one
of the largest private capital raises on record ever. $30 billion will come from Softbank, $30 billion from NVIDIA and Amazon is now in for $50
million.
Economist, Mohamed El-Erian is a Professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. He is also the Chair of Gramercy Funds
Management, and he joins me now.
You know, I asked for you so often in a week, but I am glad that you waited till today. This is a busy day, Mohamed, and we are hoping you can help us
break it all down. We are going to start with this A.I. upscaling.
It is still the theme here. The markets though in terms of this A.I. and the hyperscalers, fine, that segment looks bullish. But when we go to
things like these software titans, they are just being dumped. They continue to be dumped. You say that could be a mark of the risk to come
here for these markets.
MOHAMED EL-ERIAN, ECONOMIST: Yes, the narrative has changed radically. Last year was all about those working on A.I., the hyperscalers and the markets,
and virtually everybody else was really excited about an unlimited potential. This year is about those working with A.I. The application of
A.I., and suddenly people are worried about sectors that are going to be disrupted, people are worried about the interaction of politics and
technology.
So, it is a fundamentally different narrative, and it is a narrative that doesn't give the air cover to the stock market and that's why we have seen
the stock market unable to act as a shield to many of the issues that were actually in play last year, we just ignored them because of this love
affair with those working on A.I.
NEWTON: Yes, Mohamed, we just put up the numbers for today, but we are going to put up the numbers for the week as well. I mean, all three indices
tried to get some kind of momentum through midweek, and then it really petered out, and I am not exactly sure what it is going to look like by
Monday.
You say though, that certainly there is risk here, and I also want to point out that we have had the American banks, which are usually good solid
gainers, and if not they at least tread water.
We have Goldman down seven percent today, Goldman; three percent Bank of America, five percent. What do you make of all this?
EL-ERIAN: I make it that the market today in particular was worried about three things and it is the third one that we have to pay attention to the
most.
The first was geopolitics. Concerns about the weekend, concerns about U.S.- Iran tensions. The second was the economy, Block, a payments company, announced that they would be laying off 40 percent of their workforce to
benefit from A.I. and that made people question what is going to happen to employment as a whole.
But the third issue is the one we really need to focus on. It is what Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan called a few weeks ago the cockroaches, increasing
evidence of fraud, of very loose underlying underwriting standards that are resulting in accidents in the private credit space. And today we found out
that two major banks got hit by an accident that was thought to be contained.
So, it is not -- we are not talking about a systemic crisis here, it is just that people are starting to pay attention to the excesses of lending
that has occurred.
NEWTON: And you think that still has a way to shake out still here in the coming weeks and months?
EL-ERIAN: I do. I think of it, it is cockroaches, not termites. Cockroaches, you know, once you see walking, you're going to see more of
them. Termites that eat away at the whole structure and the foundation, and then the whole thing collapses. I don't think these are termites. This is
not 2007-2008.
[16:10:05]
These are much more the cockroaches that they are going to hurt. There is no doubt about it. They are going to hurt some people. But I don't think it
is a systemic issue.
NEWTON: Let's see how much better that makes everyone feel.
The Kevin Warsh era at the Fed may be upon us here. You argue, stop the debate about are interest rates up, are they going down? You believe that
the Fed needs some structural reform. Why?
EL-ERIAN: Because in the last few years, we've had a major policy error. We've had supervision slippages, we've had bad forecasts, we've had poor
communication, and we've had five -- five -- federal officials step down in the midst of unproven allegations of financial irregularities.
I think what is very important for the new chair, when he is confirmed, Kevin Warsh is forget about the debate about should I cut rates now or
later? Is he able to reform the Fed to bring it back to excellence so that its credibility can start recovering? And does he have an approach to the
balance sheet?
I am willing to bet you, Paula, that these two things are going to prove much more important in determining his legacy than what he does on interest
rates.
NEWTON: Yes, depending on when that legacy starts, because there still is some controversy about that.
Mohamed El-Erian, have a great weekend, and we really thank you for being here, as I said, on such a turbulent day for the markets. Appreciate it.
Now, as you just heard Mohamed say there, shares in Block closed up nearly 17 percent. That was after the company announced it would lay off almost
half of its workforce.
Founder Jack Dorsey cites A.I. as a driver of the decision. He says he believes others will soon follow, writing in a letter to shareholders:
"Within the next year, I believe the majority of companies will reach the me conclusion and make similar structural changes."
Our next guest is skeptical that A.I. will cause massive job losses.
Greg Ip's latest column is entitled: Tech Has Never Caused a Job Apocalypse. Don't Bet On It Now.
Greg Ip is the chief economics commentator at "The Wall Street Journal." Great for me to have you on the show especially after so many of us read
your column. You are the contrarian here, and is it something that you believe people should buy into?
Because Jack Dorsey who is not without influence as you know, says look, this is coming for everyone.
GREG IP, CHIEF ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": I am just trying to present a bit of a moderating view, I think, to what started to
look this week, like excessive panic.
Will A.I. cost some people their jobs? Absolutely. And I think the announcement from Block is simply proof of that. I think the question is,
will A.I. end up destroying more jobs than it creates because it leads to lower prices and new products? That I am very doubtful about.
But even if A.I. did destroy more jobs than it created directly, is it therefore the case that it would cause so much carnage that the entire
economy would suffer, that we would have a recession, which was kind of the prediction of that report a week ago, and that its never happened before.
So why would we expect it to happen now? It would just presume a lot of very unusual things to happen.
Look what does technology change do? It makes -- it enables us to produce more better products at a lower cost. That makes us richer over time and
able to afford more stuff. If it were otherwise and we would have gone into a depression, when we stopped needing all those farmers to make our food,
that didn't happen.
So, I am just doubtful that these more apocalyptic scenarios are going to come true this time.
NEWTON: And I like the fact that you actually dig into the data here, at least as we know it right now. You point out that in the ranks of software
developers, it is really everybody assumes its acutely vulnerable. You say to A.I., but you're saying those jobs are actually up five percent in
January from a year earlier, a pace largely consistent, really, for more than a generation now.
I think, I am asking you, though, do you believe that will hold?
IP: So I guess the first thing I would say is that if it were really as bad out there as some of these scare stories would have us, we should see some
sign, some kind of sign, a little bit of a hint that the people most exposed, like software developers, were suffering, and I looked and I just
can't find it, like that data that you referenced there, the number of software developer jobs has been growing.
So, is it possible that the new tools that have just been brought out in the last few weeks will change that? Well, it might, but we don't have much
historical evidence that that ever happens.
There is some evidence that young people in their 20s who are in industries exposed to A.I., like finance, that they are having more trouble finding a
job, is that the possible result of A.I.? It might be, but it also might be the fact that we are in a very slow job growth environment and environments
like that, the youngest people always have the most trouble finding work.
So, I guess I am not at all dismissing the fact that there will be disruptions and maybe in the next few years, some of that will grow more
slowly. I am just saying we are not seeing it here, and certainly not on the scale that suggests these apocalyptic scenario is about to come true.
NEWTON: Greg, the one thing I want to point out is the base case here is that the economy itself, whether it is GDP, consumer spending, will remain
resilient.
[16:15:10]
You know, there are people that have fears that it won't. I mean what is the tipping point for you? When are you going to say, you know what, this
could be rougher than we thought.
IP: Well, you know, it is interesting you ask that because if people ask -- if you were to ask me, could A.I. cause a recession? I would say it could.
And I go back to 2001 where what we later learned was that all the investment in web and, you know, fiber optic broadband had been overdone,
the demand wasn't there and these companies went bankrupt. And there was actually a jobs apocalypse in I.T. as a result, but it wasn't because those
people were being replaced by the internet, it is because the industry had got ahead of itself.
Now, you look at some of what we've seen in the markets over the last few weeks, we see some companies like NVIDIA and MICROSOFT and amazon beating
their numbers and their stock going down. We see companies like Blue Owl Capital really, really suffering because people aren't sure that their
business model works.
I think that is a bigger risk that the market has -- that we are sort of like we've seen a lot of froth in the debt space, in the stock space that
maybe we've been a little bit too optimistic about that.
You know, your last guest, Mohamed, talked about some of the cockroaches out there in the credit system. That worries me. I could imagine a scenario
where we have a significant weakening in growth not because A.I. is taking people's jobs away, but because some of these cockroaches in the financial
system or the excesses of A.I. catch up with us and we have a sort of -- I don't know if I could use the word garden variety recession, and we have
seen those before, but we also have the means to respond to those. For example, the Federal Reserve can cut interest rates.
NEWTON: Right. Which they haven't done, so they might have more room to maneuver. I am of the vintage that I remember the dot-com bust, and I think
it would likely mirror something like that. We will wait and see, of course.
Greg Ip, really thankful to have your thoughts. Appreciate it.
Now, Bill Clinton tells lawmakers probing the Jeffrey Epstein case that he did nothing wrong. The former U.S. President is testifying in front of the
House Oversight Committee just one day after his wife was deposed. We will have that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: Now, the latest on the Jeffrey Epstein probe. Bill Clinton telling members of the House Oversight Committee that "I saw nothing and I did
nothing wrong."
The former U.S. President is testifying behind closed doors right now in Chappaqua, New York, one day after his wife, Hillary Clinton was deposed.
The former president told lawmakers, "My brief acquaintance with Epstein ended years before his crimes came to light." Neither Bill nor Hillary
Clinton have been accused of any wrongdoing.
[16:20:10]
M.J. Lee has been following all of this for us in Chappaqua, and she joins us now. I am wondering what -- I know that we are not supposed to know what
exactly happened, but we did hear some of what his testimony was and certainly what was the tone as he answered the questions from lawmakers.
M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL ENTERPRISE CORRESPONDENT: Well Paula, yes, you're right that we are not supposed to know the questions and answers
that are being exchanged inside of that closed door deposition, but my colleague Annie Grayer and I are getting some new reporting from sources
who have told us about some of the questions that Bill Clinton has been asked today.
He has been asked about that photograph where he is in a jacuzzi with a woman whose face is redacted. He has told lawmakers, we are told that he
doesn't know who that woman is. We are also told that he was directly asked whether he had sex with that woman, and he said no, he did not.
Now, just for context about that photograph, Hillary Clinton was recently asked about the trip where that photograph was apparently taken, and she
said that this was a trip where Bill Clinton was doing philanthropic and charitable work. And she said "saving literally millions of lives around
the world."
Now, over the course of today, lawmakers have been asking lots of specific questions to the former president about his appearance in the Epstein files
including photographs like the one that we just discussed, and flight logs where his name appears on Epstein's plane, as well as Epstein's appearing
in the Clinton White House visitors' logs.
I think all of this taken together, you know, you get a clear sense of how different today's deposition is compared to yesterday's deposition of
Hillary Clinton, where she made clear to lawmakers, apparently repeatedly, that she doesn't recall ever even meeting Jeffrey Epstein and that she
simply didn't have any helpful information to share about Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell's criminal wrongdoings.
Now, we know that the Clintons, of course, were not keen on being deposed in this manner, and the questions that Bill Clinton apparently has gotten
about that photograph, for example, also a good reminder of why they wouldn't have been keen to be questioned like this. We knew that there were
going to be some uncomfortable questions directed at both Clintons, and finally, Paula, I will say, you know, even as this deposition is still yet
to wrap up, we can tell that lawmakers on this committee are already thinking ahead to who else they could bring in to be deposed.
They floated ideas like the Commerce Secretary, Howard Lutnick, maybe other individuals in Epstein's orbit who may have been involved or who may have
helped Epstein procure these girls and young women.
So I think that's going to be a really important space to watch is, of course, what the Clintons exactly told these lawmakers yesterday and today,
but also where the Committee goes forward in terms of finding other individuals to bring forward to question.
NEWTON: M.J. Lee grateful to you as we continue to watch the testimony ongoing, if the former president does speak, we will certainly bring that
to you live.
M.J. Lee for us, appreciate it.
Now nonessential U.S. Embassy staff in Israel have been told that they can leave the country as President Trump weighs the possibility of strikes on
Iran. U.S. Ambassador Mike Huckabee told staff that if they want to leave, they should do so today.
The U.S. and Iran have engaged in talks on a nuclear deal, but haven't reached a breakthrough. President Trump expressed his frustrations earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, we haven't made a final decision. We are not exactly happy with the way they
are negotiating. They can't -- they cannot have nuclear weapons. And we are not thrilled with the way they're negotiating. So, we will see how it all
works out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now as those talks play out, do you -- the U.S. has amassed its largest force in the Middle East since the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
Now, Mr. Trump earlier today proposed a so-called friendly takeover of Cuba. He says his administration has been in talks with the Cuban
government. The President's comments come days after Cuban soldiers exchanged fire with a boat that Havana claims was trying to infiltrate the
island. Four people on the boat were killed, including one U.S. citizen.
Kevin Liptak is following the President today. He is in Corpus Christi, Texas, where the President will make an appearance shortly.
I mean, Kevin, I am wondering behind-the-scenes what you've been told. First, we will go to Cuba. The President just kind of threw it out there.
But it is no secret that he is very pleased with the way things are going in Venezuela.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes, and he seems to want to replicate what he did there on the island of Cuba. You know, go in, get rid
of the regime and find a leader who is willing to work with the United States in the mold of Delcy Rodriguez, the Venezuelan Vice President who
the U.S. has worked relatively well with after that early January raid.
[16:25:07]
There are a lot of questions about who that figure might be inside of Cuba. You know, the administration has been talking to the grandson of Raul
Castro, the 94-year-old leader of that country. it is not at all clear to American officials that he is the individual who would be the so-called
friendly leader of Cuba, but it is -- and I think it all leads to sort of a period of uncertainty that the President seems to be overseeing.
You know, the U.S. has really tightened the noose around the island, restricting oil imports. It has led to quite a dire situation for everyday
Cubans. And as the President said today, you know, the U.S.-Cuba relationship has been fraught for a very, very long time. He said he
remembers hearing about Cuba when he was a little boy.
But it should also be said that American interventions in Cuba have sort of had a mixed history for just as the same amount of time. And so it really
is, I think, uncertain about what the administration's objectives are in all of this.
What is clear is that there is a political advantage that the President sees. The Cuban community in the United States already relatively
supportive of the President, is clearly agitating for some kind of action.
You know one of the members of that community is Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State. And so you can see how all of this is sort of culminating in sort
of an inflection point, but it is entirely unclear, I think, about where precisely this all might be heading.
NEWTON: Yes, and we do see that perhaps they might bend a little bit on humanitarian aid. They already have this week. They might do it again. We
will leave it there for now.
Kevin Liptak doing a great job over the loud music there in Corpus Christi, Texas, as he awaits the President.
Kevin, appreciate it.
Now, the bidding war is over for Warner Bros Discovery. Netflix backed out, clearing the way for Paramount Skydance. We will break it all down for you,
after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:30:11]
NEWTON Hadas Gold: Hello. I'm Paula Newton, and there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment, when we'll hear from the man who accidentally gained
remote control of 7,000 robotic vacuums with the help of an A.I. chatbot.
And few people have flown on more planes than our very own. Mr. Quest. He will take us on a journey through his favorite aircraft throughout this
history -- throughout his history.
Before that, though, the headlines this hour.
Former U.S. President Bill Clinton is testifying under oath about his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. Clinton told House lawmakers behind closed doors that,
"I saw nothing and I did nothing wrong." He says he had only a brief acquaintance with the late sex offender that ended years before Epstein's
crimes came to light.
President Trump says he's directing all federal agencies to stop working with Anthropic. CEO Dario Amodei, said he could not, in good conscience, go
along with requests from the Pentagon. Trump threatened on Truth Social to use the full force of the presidency to make them comply.
Two people are dead and dozens more injured after a tram derailment in Italy. Authorities in central Milan say the tram came off the tracks and
crashed in the window of a shop. Milan's public transport company says it is deeply shocked, and is working with police to find the cause of the
derailment.
Paramount successful bid for Warner Brothers Discovery, the parent company of CNN is making waves in Hollywood, on Wall Street, and in Washington,
D.C.
Shares of Paramount Skydance soared nearly 21 percent, it's poised to become a major media conglomerate. Netflix shares also popped after the
streaming giant backed away from a pricey and uncertain deal. Shares of WBD slid two percent below Paramount's offer of $31.
Now, Netflix declined to match that price. It said the deal was no longer financially attractive. That leaves Paramount the apparent winner, if it's
able to win regulatory approval.
Brian Stelter is with me. We know that Paramount is -- Paramount Skydance is very confident of the regulatory approval. You know, before we get to
what this might mean for viewers, for audiences, Brian, I don't sure you and I could stream a better corporate drama here than what just unfolded,
and the climax really being what happened in the last 24 hours.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA ANALYST: And you have to say this was an undeniable victory for the WBD board. For David Zaslav, the CEO, and for
his board, they were able to orchestrate this bidding war in a way that is right out of a business school textbook.
There are a lot of WBD shareholders who are very happy today, because a year ago, that stock was languishing around $10 a share. Now, it's going to
be up to $31 with this Paramount bid.
But at the same time, you have a lot of WBD employees and others in the entertainment industry who are frankly terrified, because they are
expecting that consolidation will mean layoffs and a real cutback in Hollywood in a lot of different ways.
NEWTON: And that could certainly happen. And I think when we look at the regulatory approval, we also have to say it's not just in the United
States. They have other hoops to go through. But let's say this deal goes through, and it could take anywhere from six to 18 months. I mean, the
entertainment -- the entertainment industry is frightened here, and the good reason is the debt that Paramount and Skydance are taking on in the
first place.
Will it -- how difficult will it be for them to really muster what they need to in terms of financing for these blockbusters or to grow that all
important streaming service, even if they combine Paramount and HBO, because that takes a lot of money, too.
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Yes, you know, there have been --
Yes. There has been headlines today about this being the largest leveraged buyout in history. That is because of the financing structure of this deal.
One of the richest men in the world, Larry Ellison, is personally bank stopping this deal, and three Middle Eastern countries are key backstops as
well, key parts of the financing package.
So, that has raised some concerns, including inside CNN about a possible chill or an impact on editorial coverage. However, right now, this deal has
not taken effect, and there is a long road, as you said, between today and that point.
Paramount, though, is bullish. It can get this done closer to six months than 18 months, and it has a financial incentive to do so, because the
longer this goes on, the more the share price is going to go up.
There is a so-called ticking fee every quarter that benefits WBD shareholders if there are regulatory hurdles that cannot be overcome.
NEWTON: And Brian, I know how closely you follow this. Whether it's the movie industry, linear T.V., streaming. I mean, do you think there could be
more consolidation to come? Right? I mean, anything could happen here in terms of what's in play and what the media industry will look like.
(CROSSTALK)
STELTER: Look, right now, if you are Disney, yes.
[16:35:01]
If you are Disney, if you are Comcast, you are thinking about your next move. This is possibly the beginning of another round of consolidation. And
it's happening largely because of the tech giants that are so much bigger than the media players.
Yes, Warner Brother Discovery, it's a big company. But it looks pretty small compared to Apple, compared to Google. And so, if you are Netflix, if
you are Disney, if you are Paramount, you are thinking about having to take on TikTok, having to take on YouTube. What you're going to do to compete
for people's attention? Because ultimately, that is the battle underway in the media world. It's not about viewership, necessarily, anymore. Not about
engagement. It's about sheer overall attention and that the people's share of people's time every day, Paramount believes it needs to bulk up in order
to have a chance.
NEWTON: Yes, we will see how long it takes for this deal to progress.
Brian Stelter, grateful to you. You've been with us for most of the week, and there is been a lot of news on this story. Appreciate it.
Now, we have been talking for months about concerns involving A.I. and its circular investment nature. Inflated market valuations, fears of an A.I.
bubble. Well, a software developer has discovered a new one for us. Wait for it. This was not on my bingo card.
Sammy Azdoufal accidentally gained remote control of 7,000 robotic vacuums with the help of an A.I. chatbot. Listen to Clare Duffy as she explains
what happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARE DUFFY, CNN TECH REPORTER: So, in theory, you could have used someone else's vacuum and navigated it around their home to see whatever you wanted
to see.
SAMMY AZDOUFAL, SOFTWARE DEVELOPER: Our launching deep cleaning at 420 for everyone? Yes.
DUFFY: Software developer Sammy Azdoufal was building an app to hack his DJI Romo smart vacuum. He wanted to use his PlayStation controller to make
it move. But in the process, he accidentally uncovered a major security flaw.
With the help of an A.I. chatbot, Sammy discovered he could also access what he says were roughly 7,000 other vacuums, allowing him to get their
approximate locations and even remotely control other people's vacuums.
He could also see through other users' live camera feeds and hear through their vacuum's microphones, features typically in place to help the vacuums
navigate around a home and respond to voice commands.
AZDOUFAL: When it happened, my wife started to hide the camera from the robot because she was scared.
I don't know. freak out or scared.
Sorry. This is making me laugh for nothing. But why are they going to put a microphone in a vacuum? Like, I don't know. I don't get it.
DUFFY: Sammy, immediately reported the flaw to DJI. After some back and forth, the company fixed it. DJI did not respond to a request for comment
from CNN.
But Sammy says, there is an important takeaway here for consumers thinking about buying any smart home device.
AZDOUFAL: Let other users be -- being a beta testers before you. So, the company will fix the issue before you buy it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: I think, there are even more lessons from that. A bit of a funny but also in a way, chilling. Our thanks to Clare Duffy, there.
Now, a whistleblower tells CNN about China's efforts to spy on citizens at home and abroad. We'll bring you the full video exclusive next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:40:43]
NEWTON: An FBI official tells CNN Chinese operatives are working in the U.S. to silence dissent.
Now, a former official for China's Communist Party, now, confirming the country's spying efforts, both at home and abroad.
Ivan Watson brings us a video exclusive of his conversation with this whistleblower.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Making noodles the old-fashioned way. Ma Ruilin works in a Chinese restaurant in
midtown Manhattan. His life transformed since he moved to the U.S. two years ago from China, where he enjoyed much more status and financial
comfort, because he spent 24 years working as an official for the Communist Party, but now, he is making the extremely rare decision to speak out
against the Chinese government.
MA RUILIN, CHINESE WHISTLEBLOWER (through translator): The religious database I designed hurt many people. What I'm doing now is my repentance,
my apology.
WATSON (voice over): In a country that is officially atheist. Ma, a member of China's Hui Muslim minority, spent much of his career monitoring fellow
Chinese Muslims as well as Christians.
WATSON: Was your department involved in closing churches and closing mosques?
MA: Yes, absolutely.
WATSON (voice over): For the last few years. Ma, says he was an official in the United Front work department, a vast, shadowy wing of the ruling
Communist Party.
MA: The United Front has access to all surveillance systems. At least, three different types of cameras are installed at mosque entrances inside
mosques, churches, and prayer halls.
WATSON: Did some of the work involve trying to recruit informers?
MA: Yes, every mosque has them. They are paid and rewarded annually.
WATSON: Was anybody ever punished because of this spying and the information that you gathered?
MA: Yes. Detention, re-education, through labor, and prison, all of those happened.
WATSON (voice over): CNN cannot independently verify these claims, but we have been able to confirm ma worked as a Chinese Communist Party official.
Ma's work also involved escorting and monitoring Chinese Muslims going on pilgrimage to Mecca.
WATSON: Here in the U.S., do you think there are people from the Chinese government looking, watching?
MA: Definitely, there is no doubt.
WATSON (voice over): U.S. law enforcement is investigating and prosecuting a growing number of cases linked to alleged Chinese interference.
WATSON: In 2022, the FBI searched the third floor of this building in lower Manhattan and charged several people accusing them of running a secret
Chinese police station here. One of these suspects, U.S. citizen, Liu John Wong has pleaded not guilty, while another has pleaded guilty to acting as
an agent of the government of China.
WANG WENBIN, SPOKESPERSON, CHINESE FOREIGN MINISTRY (through translator): The so-called overseas police stations you mentioned do not exist at all.
China has always adhered to the principle of non-interference in other countries' internal affairs.
ROMAN ROZHAVSKY, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, COUNTERINTELLIGENCE AND ESPIONAGE, FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION: It's been very aggressive and widespread.
WATSON (voice over): This senior FBI official accuses Beijing of creating what he calls an Orwellian climate of fear in Chinese communities in the
U.S.
ROZHAVSKY: We have seen them send officials here to harass individuals. We have seen them hire private investigators to try to get them to commit
violence against individuals.
WATSON (voice over): One critic of China says he's felt this pressure firsthand. Lin Hai is a Chinese immigrant who lives and works in New York
City.
LIN HAI, CHINESE IMMIGRANT: Yes, (INAUDIBLE). Yes.
WATSON (voice over): In 2019, pro-China protesters beat him up in midtown Manhattan, when he attended a rally to support the visiting president of
Taiwan.
LIN (through translator): I was shocked, because I never expected to be threatened or beaten on American soil.
WATSON: Should people here in the U.S. be paranoid and looking over their shoulders for agents or proxies of foreign adversaries?
ROZHAVSKY: If you are a vocal dissident with a large following, I would say yes.
WATSON: It's that dangerous?
ROZHAVSKY: Yes.
WATSON: Here in the U.S.
ROZHAVSKY: Yes.
[16:45:00]
WATSON: Do you have estimates of how many people might be acting as proxies for or as agents for a government like China here?
ROZHAVSKY: I couldn't give you exact numbers because, you know, but I --
(CROSSTALK)
WATSON: Is it in the hundreds or thousands?
ROZHAVSKY: I think hundreds would be accurate.
WATSON (voice over): CNN has requested comment from the Chinese government, which has long denied interference on foreign soil.
WATSON: Are you happy here?
MA: Yes. Very, very happy.
WATSON: Very happy.
WATSON (voice over): Whistleblower Ma Ruilin knows he may face problems for speaking out against the Chinese Communist Party. For now, he prays for
protection from a higher power.
WATSON: Do you have any regrets?
MA: No. At least, I'm no longer doing bad things now.
WATSON (voice over): Ivan Watson, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: So, Richard Quest has spent more time on airplanes than anyone we know. Few are more qualified to list their favorite aircraft of all time. I
can't wait. I have not looked at this piece. Waiting.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NEWTON: We are told, a woman has been detained in Milan for allegedly stowing away on a flight, and it wouldn't be her first time. A law
enforcement source says, Svetlana Dali, snuck by airplane workers at Newark Airport and got on board United Flight 19 for Milan. At some point during
the trip, people realized she didn't have a ticket.
Now, Dali was convicted for sneaking on to a flight from New York to Paris back in 2024. She spent much of that flight in the bathroom. During her
trial, prosecutors said Dali had a habit of this kind of behavior.
Mark Morales is in New York for us. It is stunning to me, because even with all of my documents, Mark, you know, it's not easy to get through Newark
security. How did this unfold?
MARK MORALES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT REPORTER: Right. And to your point, there is so many checkpoints, so many metal detectors, taking off your shoes.
It's shocking when you see that she is back at it again. And it's even more shocking, because the answer is just so simple, she did what she did the
last time. She hung back and she waited until the gate agent was busy, and when she picked her spot and was able to sneak past the gate agent and get
on the flight, just filing in with the crowd that was getting on the plane to this flight to Milan.
It took the flight attendants some time to realize that she wasn't supposed to be on this flight.
[16:50:04]
But by the time they landed in Milan, they realized who they had on their hands. They realized that this person was Svetlana Dali, who was -- who was
already known for having jumped on that flight from JFK to Paris in around November 2024.
What's important here is she is in Milan, and there is going to be a very difficult process in order to get her back, because not only are you
dealing with the legal restrictions here in the United States, but there is also the immigration law in Milan.
So, is navigating that, getting that -- getting her back to the United States if that's what's actually going to happen, even processing her
through Customs and Border Protection.
I mean, that's all going to be a very difficult process. And once you add into the fact that she could be facing even more charges. Because,
remember, she was convicted of getting on that flight from New York to Paris. She spent seven months in a federal penitentiary, and she was on --
she was on a supervised release
So, her just jumping on that flight and sneaking on and getting to Milan is a violation of that supervised release. So, she could be facing a lot more
trouble than even we know.
NEWTON: And, you know, given this woman's history, obviously, people are going to look into, you know, what motivates this behavior, because it is
disturbing, especially for the people that are there on the flight, wondering while someone who is not cleared to be on the flight is on the
flight.
Well, more than that, you know, there are protocols here, right? I mean, Newark is going to have to be revisiting this as well, United.
MORALES: Absolutely. And there is kind of two things happening at once here. There is the protocols that have to be reviewed by the airline. But
there is also the motivation, and the motivation is very closely tied to mental health in this exact scenario.
When she was in court during the -- during the hearings for her skipping on that flight from New York to Paris, her lawyer was asking for a psychiatric
evaluation. He described her as having a delusional disorder. She referred to constantly being poisoned, and for having to flee on these flights in
order to save her life.
So, there is obviously some sort of an issue here, coupled with what we already know with the security lapses, it's going to be a really
interesting way to see how both law enforcement deals with her and how she is being treated as somebody who might have some mental health issues.
NEWTON: Yes, again, some significant lapses there. And as you point out, they certainly want to make sure that she doesn't have any capacity to pull
this off again, if indeed she ends up being convicted of it.
Mark Morales, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Now, I know on a personal level that Richard crest is very efficient through a security line and always compliant. He has his boarding pass, and
he goes on so many flights. He is taken more flights than anyone can really count. So, it's safe to say Richard knows a lot about airplanes, but what's
his favorite aircraft of all time?
Richard laid out his top five and explained why these planes have the edge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: From thrill inducing, stomach churning stump jets, to super-efficient long haul record breakers.
Airplanes have given me some incredible moments over the years. Choosing My favorite is no easy feat. But here are my top five aircraft of all time.
The DC-3, one of my favorites. Why? Because in the 1940s and 50s, this plane really opened up the world of aviation. More routes, more passengers.
The versatility of this aircraft was extraordinary.
There is one plane that people have forgotten about. It was the 707. It was the first really big, standard jet, narrow aisle, to be sure, four engines,
and glorias.
Way up there has to be the A380. I always call it the whale, because the profile, the sheer numbers of passengers. There is a great argument in the
industry about whether the 380 was too early or too late. It doesn't matter. It's no longer in production, but it's a plane that we love, and
it's still around for a few more years. The whale.
In the world's great planes. It's got to be the jumbo jet. the 747. The queen of the skies, the plane with the hump, which had the famous spiral
staircase up to first class. The 747 transformed aviation.
[16:55:03]
Crossing oceans in luxury style and grandeur. Magnificent.
Number one favorite of all, Concorde. Born in the 60s and 70s, flew until the turn of the century, once gone so far, not coming back. Supersonic
travel. I was privileged to be on the last flight of Concorde.
QUEST (voice over): This is the picture the world saw as Concorde left New York. And this is how I saw it on board the plane.
QUEST: A picture-perfect lift off for the last time, from Kennedy Airport.
When you flew Concorde, it was like nothing else. It was so tremendous. When they took you supersonic, you felt a kick in the back. You could feel
the heat coming off the aircraft.
It was only three hours across the Atlantic, but to land and to see the water jets was so phenomenal. Concorde is my favorite aircraft because it
was unique. It said something about our achievements, and I challenge you to look at video of it taking off and not just go.
God, that's beautiful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Thank you, Richard.
More of -- many of us were more than a little depressed when the Concorde was not in service. I have not flown on it, and apparently never will. Our
thanks to Richard there, though.
So, former U.S. President Joe Biden was spotted flying commercial out of Washington, D.C. by the Associated Press today.
As one passenger boarded -- get this one. She set her coffee down next to Biden without noticing that it was him. After stowing her bag, you can
picture yourself doing this. She saw the traveler seated next to her was steadying her coffee cup. She realized it was the former president and
said, I feel like I'm about to cry.
Now, apparently, according to the Associated Press, they chatted the entire flight. You can kind of see why there and how they are enjoying that
conversation. Other people taking selfies.
I'm not sure anyone expected the former president to be flying commercial, but he was. And what a day it has been. Right? For our presidents.
We have seen a former president giving testimony to congressional committee. Another president is speaking now in Texas, but is talking about
a friendly takeover of Cuba.
So, we have three presidents today, each, and a completely different venue today. And juxtaposition the three of them, I thought it was interesting.
Wall Street finished lower as wholesale inflation came in hotter than expected. The Dow fell 521 points. The S&P 500 and the NASDAQ also finished
in the red for the session. And here is the unfortunate part for the entire month.
That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper is next.
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