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Quest Means Business

Trump Says He Will Fire Powell if He Doesn't Leave in May; U.S. Military Says it has Completely Halted Iranian Shipping; French Nuclear Investments Help Mitigate Energy Price Shocks; Top Pakistani Negotiator in Tehran with Message from U.S.; Jury Finds Live Nation and Ticketmaster a Monopoly; Allbirds Shares Soar Over Pivot to A.I.; Managing Supply Chains to Protect People, Planet and Profits; Air New Zealand Adding Bunk Beds for Economy Passengers. Aired 4p-5p ET

Aired April 15, 2026 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:18]

RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": The closing bell is ringing on Wall Street as trading comes to an end. It is an

interesting day. Don't bother too much about what you're seeing over here with the Dow, because the S&P is actually the one that is closing at a

record high. I will show you that in a minute.

Bring us to an end sir, please. And oh, one and a two and one, two, three, four. Trading is over. So I can tell you the S&P has closed at a record

high. If we look at the triple stack, you will see that the NASDAQ is also at a triple -- it is at an all-time high, and I think we have an intraday

high as well at 24,016, I think we've just eked out there.

It is the 11th day of gains for the NASDAQ. So those are the markets, the ebullient markets and these are the main events of the day.

President Trump says he will fire Jerome Powell next month if the Fed Chair stays on after his term is over. It sets the stage for a potential legal

battle on the Central Bank.

The U.S. military says it has turned back nine vessels in its blockade of the Iranian ports.

And Allbirds, a struggling shoe brand relaunches as an artificial intelligence business. The shares are up 600 percent. Where are the shoes?

We are live in London. It is Wednesday, midweek, April the 15th, mid-month. I am Richard Quest and mid of everything, I mean business.

Good evening.

President Trump says Jerome Powell will leave the Fed Reserve next month when his term is up one way or the other. The Chair's term is set to expire

on May the 15th. Mr. Trump's pick to replace him, Kevin Warsh has, however, not yet been confirmed by the Senate.

Under regulations, Powell remains Chair until the new person is confirmed. President Trump told Fox News he won't give Powell the chance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX BUSINESS NETWORK HOST, MORNINGS WITH MARIA": And he said he is not leaving if, you know --

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, then I will have to fire him, okay. If he is not leaving on time, I've held back

firing him. I've wanted to fire him, but I hate to be controversial, you know?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now, so why hasn't Kevin Warsh been confirmed? It is because of the criminal investigation into Powell.

The Justice Department just won't let up. It is still accusing Powell of lying about the Fed's renovations in the capital. Chair Powell strongly

rebuked the investigation as politicized. A judge has withdrawn the subpoena, and the senator, the Republican Senator, Thom Tillis, says he

won't vote to confirm or allow it to come forward with the Warsh confirmation until the probe is over.

David Goldman is in New York. David, I mean, this won't go away. We know Powell is going one way or the other, but until the Justice Department says

it is not going to carry on against Powell, what happens?

DAVID GOLDMAN, CNN BUSINESS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, well, he stays. I mean he said this, right?

He was at the press briefing for the last Fed meeting and he said, if there isn't someone to replace me, I am going to stick around as Fed Chair Pro

Tem, you said this exactly right. That you know, that is what the statute says, that if there is not someone confirmed and that would be Kevin Warsh,

then Powell stays on.

So ironically, these actions that President Trump is taking are actually having the negative effect, right? The opposite effect, they are keeping

Powell in longer.

And by the way, they are keeping rates higher because the war with Iran and tariffs are preventing the Fed from doing what he wants, which is to lower

rates.

QUEST: If Powell does -- if Trump does fire Powell, it is not really the same as it would have been if he had fired him 18 months ago, because we

know he is on his way out. It is sort of symbolic in a sense, one imagines the Vice Chair takes over or there will be some formula involved.

It is symbolic, but the markets wouldn't fall out of bed.

GOLDMAN: It is symbolic, except that Powell could stay on. His term at the Fed isn't over for several years afterward, and he is an influential voice

there. Now, normally the Fed Chair would leave once someone replaces him, but these are not normal times, so that's for sure.

[16:05:08]

And then you're right that the market anticipates that Powell was going to leave. There was a reaction to Warsh's announcement, a positive reaction.

But who knows?

I mean, this is really unprecedented territory. We have something that, you know, I think is going to develop over the next few weeks and months and we

could get this Lisa Cook decision on Friday, as early as Friday, where the Supreme Court might weigh in on whether Trump had the authority to fire

that Fed Governor, and that could set the precedent for whether or not Trump could fire Powell.

QUEST: This is a -- it is a mess.

GOLDMAN: It is head spinning.

QUEST: I am grateful to have you -- yes, thank you. Yes. that's a very good way of putting it, head spinning. Thanks, David, as always. Good to have

you. Thank you, sir.

Now, the Justice Department, remember the reason. The reason is Tillis says he won't let it come forward unless the Justice Department says we are not

proceeding against Powell.

Well, the Justice Department is not giving up its investigation into Powell, even though the judge has quashed its subpoenas. Prosecutors

working for the U.S. Attorney for the region, Jeanine Pirro, made an unannounced visit to the Fed's headquarters. They were turned away.

Pirro said, the renovation warrants some scrutiny. She wants an appeal court to revive the Powell case.

Scott Alvarez is the former general counsel of the Fed. Head spinning, sir. So keep your head firmly on. Let's just first of all, do the legality. So

Powell is legally entitled to stay on if the new guy isn't in post.

Trump can, in theory, fire him. What happens then if you were still gen counsel, what would you advise?

SCOTT ALVAREZ, FORMER GENERAL COUNSEL OF THE FED: Well, it is a pleasure to be here, Richard, with you and the difficulty here is that it looks like

the Supreme Court is going to uphold that the President can only fire Powell from his position on the board if the President has cause.

And cause has to be something other than disagreement on policy, and one court has already said this whole idea of looking at the renovation is a

complete pretext for a policy fight, and the other motivation the Department of Justice has used that might be used for cause is lying to

Congress, that Powell lied to Congress about the --

But Senator Tillis and Senator Tim Scott, who is the Republican Chair of the Senate Banking Committee, have both said Powell did not lie to us. So,

lying to Congress seems to be an absurd basis for the investigation.

QUEST: So I am guessing from your answer that if you were advising, you would simply say, I suggest you don't fire him. It is probably not legal.

But let's assume they do -- he does fire Powell. Are we staring down the barrel of a constitutional crisis?

ALVAREZ: Not exactly. I mean, the Board will continue on and that -- but there may be an internal fight over who the chair is, but the chair of the

Fed has very few actual legal responsibilities, the main one is presiding over board meetings.

So if there are no board meetings, then a --

QUEST: No, no. No, no. Sorry, what I meant though, let's say Trump decides to try and fire Powell and Powell says, you can't do this. You have to do

it for cause, I am not accepting that I am fired. That's a constitutional crisis.

ALVAREZ: Right. That is a constitutional crisis, and that would go to the Supreme Court and I believe, given where the Supreme Court has been on the

Lisa Cook case, I believe that the administration would lose that battle.

QUEST: Do you see -- let's now turn to why the Justice Department -- let's give Jeanine Pirro the benefit of the doubt here. She is an extremely

experienced prosecutor. She is a jurist, a former judge, so she certainly knows the law and if she believes that there is a genuine case to follow

through with here, I guess, you know, the rest of us have to say, Madam U.S. Attorney, carry on with it!

ALVAREZ: And that would be the case and then Powell would stay and there would be this tension that we just talked about, right? Powell will not --

I can't imagine Powell leaving with this cloud over his head.

QUEST: No. How do you expect it to finally play out? What do you expect to happen?

ALVAREZ: I expect that the investigation will be resolved and that Powell will then be allowed to leave and Warsh will be installed as the Chair.

QUEST: Sir, I am so grateful you came in. The legal niceties at the very extreme, good to talk to you.

[16:10:10]

ALVAREZ: Good to talk to you, too. Thank you.

QUEST: Now, the U.S. military says it has completely halted Iranian shipping. What we need to understand is exactly what that actually means.

So here we have a map of the current situation and the United States says that Iran's ports, we are talking about all of these ports, particularly

Kharg Island, all the big ones, all of them there over here, he says, they are blockaded at the moment.

But where is the us actually doing the blockading from? Not from the Strait itself, but the ships are probably somewhere outside in the Gulf in the

Arabian Gulf along there, keeping as far away as possible.

The U.S. says it is not blockading the Straits of Hormuz itself, and traffic not related to Iran may cross. But of course, that raises the

question of how much traffic is actually moving across.

In terms of traffic that has actually managed to get across, if we take a look, you can see, some vessels, for example, The Christiana have passed

through the Straits. You can see it here.

Others, The Rich Starry, I am just going to show you here, you can see it coming around here. Some of them came down -- came all the way around, The

Rich Starry, and then turned all the way back again.

Iranian media says four ships have traveled to and from Iran today. It is a tricky issue of getting around, but even if a boat gets through, the U.S.

can of course still intersect and interdict a vessel anywhere in international waters.

If you look at the blockade before the U.S. blockade, Iran routed vessels north of the channel. Really interesting to see how -- it came north of the

channel and out to avoid mines.

Now Donald Trump says U.S. allies will start using minesweepers. CENTCOM has released audio of militaries warning vessels in the Gulf of Oman taking

-- depending which route they are going, the northern or the southern, because that has been determined as the hazardous area.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. has announced a formal blockade of Iranian ports in coastal areas. This is a legal action. All vessels are advised to

immediately return to port if leaving and discontinue transit to Iran if that is your next port of call.

Do not attempt to breach the blockade. Vessels will be boarded for interdiction and seizure, transiting to or from an Iranian port. Turn

around or prepare to be boarded.

If you do not comply with this blockade, we will use force. The whole of the United States Navy is ready to force compliance now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: Now there is a threat indeed. The whole of the United States Navy!

Arsenio Dominguez is the Secretary General of the International Maritime Organization. That would scare you, wouldn't it? The whole of the Navy is

about to -- I mean, this blockade is real, maybe a few ships are getting in and out, but you can always be found somewhere else in the world.

ARSENIO DOMINGUEZ, SECRETARY GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL MARITIME ORGANIZATION: That's correct.

The situation has not really improved since the beginning of this conflict. And the 20,000 seafarers and nearly 2,000 vessels are still trapped in the

Persian Gulf and that is what I continue to reiterate my message, that until there is a true de-escalation, we are sure that the Strait of Hormuz

is free from any hazards, including mines, it is not safe for any ship to transit in any direction in the Strait of Hormuz.

QUEST: Right. But in your view, and I am aware, you know, as a U.N. body, you're sort of neutral, but did the -- is the blockade working -- the U.S.

blockade? And is it in any sense assisting the resolution?

DOMINGUEZ: Not much has changed because if we looked at the 130 vessels on average that were transiting every day on the Strait of Hormuz, to the

numbers that we have right now, we see that this trade is actually not open for transit in respect to the freedom of navigation.

QUEST: Right. But it really depends whose blockade you want to get hit by, doesn't it? Do you want to be hit by the Iranians? Do you want to be hit by

a mine? Or do you want to have to run the risk of pissing off the Americans?

I mean, it is a mess!

DOMINGUEZ: It is complicated. We don't want any contact of ships with the mines. Now, when it comes to blockading a Strait, if I go back to

international law, the reality is not a single country has the right to blockade a Strait for international navigation and that is the reason why,

since 1968, as you showed in your graphic, there is an area, a corridor that has been established by IMO and since then has been okay in operation

between Iran and Oman, and that is what we need to go back to.

QUEST: If -- let's talk about the seafarers, 20,000, you say stuck on those ships.

DOMINGUEZ: Yes.

QUEST: Now, I imagine some of those ships are running -- I suppose they could be supplied with food and water on humanitarian grounds. So, that

might not be the biggest issue in a sense, but they are away from home, they have no idea how and when. I assume some of them are getting paid,

some of them are not. It is not the right thing to do for them.

DOMINGUEZ: It is terrible. It is the mental health. It is the fatigue that these innocent seafarers are actually going through.

[16:15:08]

We are trying to encourage the younger generation to actually join the seafaring community. This is not really helping us.

We are very grateful to the countries in the region because they continue to provide the essential supplies, even with the challenges that exist, but

the longer that this conflict goes on, the more that that becomes a crisis.

QUEST: And by and large, this is a generalization, by and large are the owners of the ships behaving properly, ensuring the seafarers are going to

get paid, ensuring proper humanitarian necessities for them, families being kept informed, to your knowledge, are they being responsible?

DOMINGUEZ: The answer is yes. There is a lot of cooperation in relation to the non-governmental organizations that represent the different sectors of

shipping, as well as those that represent the seafarers and the flag states and the countries of the nationalities of seafarers have been very active

in providing all the support.

QUEST: So now let's talk about, assuming it is all over tomorrow. You've got 2,000 ships that have to get out, and that is before you can start

getting more ships back in to refuel. It is estimated we've maybe got five to eight weeks' worth of fuel in some countries, aviation fuel is going to

run out arguably within two months to three months. Is that your understanding?

DOMINGUEZ: It is and we only have to look back at when the Suez Canal was actually blocked for five days, how many months? How many weeks? Many

months actually took us to get back to normal in the shipping operations around the world. Because this is not only in the region, it is all the

contracts and the logistics around the different ports.

So the reality is that we will still have to focus first on evacuating those 20,000 innocent seafarers and then step by step, start bringing back

the trade in the way that we used to.

QUEST: From you, you have an encyclopedic knowledge of all of this. So I am going to mine it for all I can, if I may, sir.

The ships that left the Straits of Hormuz just as the war began. They have now reached their destinations either in Asia, obviously, certainly Europe,

and arguably the United States and that is it! There is no more replenishment of stocks after that.

DOMINGUEZ: No. For those ships, if you're actually going to look at the contracts that they have, if the route was to go back to the Strait of

Hormuz, shipping can alter the way that it operates. And just like --

QUEST: There is no stuff coming out to fill refineries to fill the gaps that now are building up.

DOMINGUEZ: Precisely, and that's the biggest concern now, because we are resilient and we can actually find new ways to operate, new routes to

operate like we did with the Red Sea.

The reality is that still, the 20 percent of oil, 19 percent of gas, 13 percent of fertilizers, nine percent of automobiles still stuck there, that

they cannot be transported by ship and still affecting everybody else around the world.

QUEST: I am grateful, sir, thank you for coming in and talking to us very kindly.

DOMINGUEZ: Thank you.

QUEST: Thank you.

The French Finance Ministry now expects slower growth and higher inflation because of the Iran War. In a moment, France's Finance Minister, Roland

Lescure, there he is. Minister, good to see you, sir. Stay where you are and we will talk to you after the break.

QUEST MEANS BUSINESS live tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:20:45]

QUEST: Frances's Finance Ministry raised inflation estimates for the year, now reflecting, of course, the economic fallout from the war. Inflation is

likely to reach 1.9 percent, up from 1.3. But I mean, let's face it, that is still under two percent, which is the ECB target.

The Ministry says higher energy prices are the main reason, and our idea of, of course, inflation, stagflation, growth now is just down a tad, 0.9

slightly from previous. It is almost not really worth talking about.

But joining me the French Finance Minister Roland Lescure in Washington, chairing a meeting with other G7 Finance Ministers.

What have you decided? I mean, it is the proverbial rock and a hard place. These are events outside your control, but you have to respond to them. So,

what are you in France and the G7 going to do?

ROLAND LESCURE, FRENCH FINANCE MINISTER: So the G7 is meeting at 5:00 P.M. tonight, and I am going to Chair it as you said.

First and foremost, we are going to exchange information on what is going on, on the ground. As your precedent guest said it quite clearly, this is a

physical crisis. We are missing 12 million barrels a day that were mostly going to Asia before. There are price increases in Europe and in the

States. We need to understand how the economy on the ground in different sectors, farming, industry, chemical is reacting so that we can act

accordingly.

A few weeks ago, we decided within the G7 to liberate some strategic reserves, 400 million barrels that helped calm the market, so we have to

look at all of these. But first and foremost, we have to understand what is going on in the real economy to make sure we act accordingly.

QUEST: Right. But as our previous guest said and others have said, even -- I mean, obviously, a ceasefire, a permanent ceasefire, an end to

hostilities is the priority. But even if the oil and gas started flowing tonight, tomorrow, it would be weeks before the supply chain issues and the

infrastructure was put back in place and the economic damage would continue during that period.

LESCURE: Yes. I mean, I'd still buy your scenario and I would be willing to pay quite a lot for the conflict to stop tomorrow. Yes, there would still

be physical constraints that would seem to (AUDIO ISSUES).

QUEST: We lost you for a brief second there, but that's fine. We will keep going.

But, Minister, let's just talk of France.

The economy was doing quite well, and now, it is sort of going slightly into reverse in terms of that, but you're having to put quite a lot of

fiscal support into various sectors of the economy, which means getting your budget deficit down. You're under -- I mean, five percent getting it

down, you're going to have to revise all the forecasts on that basis.

LESCURE: Yes, I mean, let me correct you on that front. We are affected by this crisis, but to a far less extent than others. We are better protected

and less exposed because our energy mix is much better. We have 40 percent of our energy that doesn't depend on oil or gas at all, it is nuclear

energy, it is renewable energy, and that's helping us weather the storm.

So what we have done, instead of having blanket for all kind of measures that other countries have decided, we've been very specific targeting

specific sectors like fishing, like farming, like transport, and therefore those measures are very, very less costly than others.

You know, we have a budget challenge, as you said, I am glad we had a budget this year and I am convinced that we will have a budget next year.

But in the meantime, we have been very nimble about spending public euros because we feel any public euro should be very efficiently spent.

We are relatively spared from this crisis because my predecessors 50 years ago invested in nuclear. We need to invest more so that my successors are

not as affected next time.

QUEST: The stability of the French government, it is -- I mean, it is always tenuous or it is tenuous at the moment. Does it feel that this

current government has legs and will last?

[16:25:10]

LESCURE: Yes, I mean, the way we've, in a way theorized our mission, you know, there is a big election one year from now, you know, there are a lot

of candidates getting ready. What we want to be is the government that gets -- taking off strip ready. We need the budget to be passed. We need some

reforms to take place. We need to weather the storm we are all faced with.

But at the end of the day, the big debate should be left for next year. The candidates should have a clean landing strip so that they can take off

whenever they want.

And I think this is going quite well with the French public opinion. They agree with the fact that having a government, cleaning the shop is pretty

good at this moment, but also with different groups in the Parliament that feel that, you know, they have to prepare for next year's election. We just

have to make sure France is on a better path right now.

QUEST: I am grateful to you, Minister, assuming everyone still in position, I will see you in Bangkok later in the year, but thank you for joining us

tonight on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, always good to see you, sir. Thank you.

Now, a new line of communication appears to be opening up between the U.S. and Iran after last week's talks failed to yield results.

Who is going to be talking about what after the break?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: I am Richard Quest.

We have a lot more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Shares in the struggling sneaker company, Allbirds are up 600 percent, and why? It is pivoting to A.I. Interesting.

Air New Zealand is introducing bunk beds in the sky, the Skynest. How will it work? We will get to all of that after the headlines because this is

CNN, and here, the news always comes first.

There are signs of hope for a second round of talks between the U.S. and Iran. A key intermediary, Pakistan's Army Chief is in Tehran as part of a

high-level delegation. Iranian state media says he is delivering a message from the United States to Iran's Foreign Ministry.

President Trump suggested on Tuesday something could happen over the next couple of days.

President trump says he will fire U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell next month if the Chair stays on after his time expires. It is due

to expire on the 15th. The choice to replace him, Kevin Warsh, has not been confirmed by the Senate. Under the regulations, Powell stays on in that

role until Warsh is confirmed.

A Picasso portrait has been sold through a ticket raffle for a hundred euros or $117.00. It is a painting, "Tete de Femme" is worth more than a

million. The lucky winner is an art lover from Paris, 120,000 tickets were available through the charitable initiative. The proceeds will be donated

to Alzheimer's disease research.

[16:31:04]

More now on the potential negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. Nic Robertson is in Islamabad.

So as I was just saying in the news, Pakistan has sent a very high level official to Tehran. Why? To convince them to come back? What's he gone

there with?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: He's gone there with a message from the United States about what it's going to take for the United

States to get agreement with Iran. And he is the sort of middle man in the talks between the U.S. and Iran. He carries weight in both countries, is

respected in the White House by President Trump.

The field marshal Asim Munir is the most powerful man in Pakistan. He was accompanied by the interior minister who went to Tehran, greeted on the

steps as he got off the plane in Tehran by the foreign minister. Interesting because the foreign minister was sort of number two in the

Iranian delegation over the weekend. The parliamentary speaker was the actual lead of the negotiating team.

But this is an effort by Pakistan to take the diplomatic ball, move it forward. The ball was left in Iran's court. J.D. Vance, when he left the

talks in Islamabad Sunday morning, said that the United States had given its final and best offer to Iran. So Iran is under pressure to make some

changes. And the core issue is that central issue of convincing the United States that it doesn't want to have a nuclear bomb.

And that is going to mean things like access to nuclear facilities, removal of highly enriched uranium, and other things from those facilities. The

destruction of some of those facilities may be. And these are real touchstone issues for Iran. And there seems to be a disagreement over the

sort of level of commitment that Iran was willing to give. How many years of what, at a certain, commitment towards a certain amount of uranium

production.

And I'm being very unspecific there because we don't know the precise details of what went on inside the room at the talks of the weekend. But

one of the things that the field marshal will have a challenge doing in Iran right now is convincing the Iranians that they can come back to the

table and literally trust the Americans because the Iranians said that the Americans had moved the goalposts at the table.

That is a recurring theme. They found common ground at the talks, but trust was lost. This is where the difficulty will be.

QUEST: I'm grateful. Nic Robertson is in Islamabad. It's late there. Thank you, sir. Taking time.

In New York, a federal jury has found that Live Nation and Ticketmaster illegally monopolized the ticketing market. The verdict validates the long

standing complaints that Live Nation was abusing its overwhelming market position. It produces events, owns venues, sells tickets through

Ticketmaster. The Justice Department reached a settlement with Live Nation during the trial. Dozens of state attorneys general have followed on.

Kara Scannell is in New York.

So, one, I mean, they settled. What's the significance of the judgment, bearing in mind there was the settlement in a sense? So where does this go

now?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Richard, lawyers I've talked to have said this is an earthquake in the industry because while there was

that DOJ settlement that alone had received a lot of criticism that it wasn't doing enough for consumers. But this verdict by a jury of nine New

York citizens finding that Live Nation and Ticketmaster were operating as a monopoly, ultimately driving up the cost on fees for tickets for fans.

And so this is the first leg of this trial, just alone, this verdict find that the companies were operating as monopoly is one thing. What will occur

next, there will be a second trial before the judge who oversaw this trial and he will ultimately make determinations of damages and whether any

remedies are going to be ordered, things that would help improve competition because that's what this trial is about.

[16:35:12]

The jury finding that there was efforts to stifle competition, so the judge here could make -- could order structural changes to the company, ordering

them to sell certain business lines that they have or the states ultimately want a breakup of the company. That would be an extreme remedy. But this is

just phase one. Phase two, which will take place sometime from now, when we will see exactly what changes will happen to the structure of Live Nation

and Ticketmaster.

QUEST: All right.

SCANNELL: But consumer group states are all calling victory today.

QUEST: I'm grateful. Kara Scannell, thank you very much for joining me.

Now, Allbirds is ditching its eco-friendly sneaker business to become an A.I. company. So the shares went up more than 580 odd percent. And Allbirds

was a footwear pioneer a decade ago. Its sustainable wool sneakers were practically part of the uniform in Silicon Valley. Then the trend sort of

went away and Allbirds closed many of its stores, finally sold its brand and footwear assets, and rebranding itself as a new bird A.I., and will

focus on Cloud computing and A.I. services.

Rana is with me.

I don't really know because, I mean, is this just sort of putting a new label on a company? If you're going to go into A.I., you better know what

you're doing.

RANA FAROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: I think. So, I mean, I think that this says less about Allbirds and more about the fact that anything

labeled A.I. is going to soar these days. Now I frankly, I'm not sure I would buy into this given that the market is already so controlled by about

five companies who do know what they're doing and have been doing it for some time.

But, you know, the other thing this reminds me of, Richard, is I don't know if you remember maybe a decade ago when Long Island Iced Tea briefly said

it was going to go into blockchain and the stock just took off. So, you know, there are these sort of memes of the moment. Blockchain, A.I.

QUEST: Right.

FAROOHAR: You know, A.I. is a meme, but, you know, the people just -- they'll buy it, you know.

QUEST: But, Rana, Rana, history, history. I mean, well, you're probably not old enough to remember dotcom boom and bust in quite the same way. When you

put dotcom on something --

FAROOHAR: Oh, I worked in it, Richard.

QUEST: You know. Right. Well, when you put pet this or that dotcom or that, you thought by putting that on it you were going to be successful. But if

you didn't have the product, if you didn't have the expertise and the raison detre, you fell apart, you were naked.

FAROOHAR: Fell -- absolutely. Listen, I briefly left media and worked in a venture capital firm startup in London in 1999. I don't have to tell you

how that ended. You know, we may be seeing Allbirds become fall birds pretty soon.

QUEST: Right.

FAROOHAR: But I do think it speaks to just what a hype there is right now right around A.I.. That doesn't mean that it's not going to be the new new

thing eventually. But, boy, I think we're going to start to see a few, a few bumps in this market.

QUEST: Right. Right. I want to just take you to events at the moment. This surreal, we've got Iran not allowing ships. We've got a blockade of a

blockade. We've got the market seemingly at a record, which is bewildering, bearing in mind you've got not only a war, but you've also got over

valuations on these key stocks. Can you make sense of it for me?

FAROOHAR: Yes. Well, you know, makes sense in a fundamental way, I'm not sure. But again, it's the A.I. story. I mean there's two stories right now.

And one is A.I. and the productivity and innovation that that may or may not create. And then the other story is geopolitics. And it's interesting

because they are diametrically opposed. Geopolitics, inflation. You just saw the IMF, you know, coming out, you know, a couple of days ago.

QUEST: Sure.

FAROOHAR: We have three new scenarios, very dismal in terms of potential inflation fallout from Iran. But on the other hand, a lot of people,

including the White House, including Kevin Hassett, are counting on this A.I. productivity boom to create a tailwind and to be disinflationary. So

those two stories are just duking it out right now.

QUEST: I'm grateful, Rana. Thank you.

Coming up, bringing awareness to modern-day slavery on CNN's "My Freedom Day," the chief executive of helping companies map human rights risks in

their supply chains.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:42:17]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED STUDENTS: My Freedom Day!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: "My Freedom Day" marking another year. Students led a day of action aimed at ending modern-day slavery. This is the 10th year and the theme is

progress and obstacles in combating modern slavery.

FRDM AI is a company which is using artificial intelligence to help businesses build ethical compliance supply chains, identifying geopolitical

and human rights risks. The FRDM CEO, Justin Dillon, is with me now.

Good -- thank you, sir, for joining us. The identification of -- it's one of those things where everybody knows there are challenges identifying the

-- in the supply chain. And many companies are very diligent about doing so. How does A.I. help?

JUSTIN DILLON, CEO, FRDM AI: Yes, so great to be on with you again, Richard. A.I. helps, one of the biggest challenges with supply chain

mapping now is false positives and noise in the supply chain. As you can imagine, it's an incredible amount of data. We process millions and

millions of data points every day for our customers who are looking at millions of different suppliers and sub-suppliers.

So A.I. helps hydrate that data and also removes false positives so that you can get a clear line of sight in your supply chain and take the right

amount of action needed.

QUEST: What's the biggest challenge, though, in getting rid of those false positives when you actually look at the supply chain? Because at the end of

the day, you know, different cultural aspects, different work processes, that there is a gray area somewhere in the middle, some people would

suggest. And yet finding the correct practices, as you say, for a company that's got thousands of different parts is challenging.

DILLON: Yes, I think you have to crawl before you run. This is obviously a problem that we all want to solve, and we'd like to solve it quickly. But

most companies and some people say it's north of 80 percent of companies have no visibility beyond their direct suppliers. So just getting the step

phase visibility beyond tier one is moving from crawling to walking and being able to understand what are the drivers for those risks and those

supply chains.

You know, it's not that difficult to, as you start to map out, you can start to see which supply chains have the greatest amount of risk based off

of the industries, the commodities, and the areas that they're doing business in.

QUEST: Which are the ones? Give me some examples which caused the most problems.

DILLON: Well, you know, here in the United States, we have an import ban for goods made originating out of Western China. So that's been in place

here for a while.

[16:45:03]

That is a very easy way to track where risk might be coming from because it's a geography, not just a commodity or an industry. So supply chains

need to be able to not just determine which suppliers are at tier one, but tier two, tier three, tier four.

QUEST: Right.

DILLON: How many of those suppliers are located there. And that's what supply chain mapping does. Now it's moving beyond just Western China and

into other regions of the world. And I'm sure you're aware, with all the tariff talks, the Trump administration is now using forced labor as a

driver to enforce tariffs based on a 1972 Trade Act that is now another version of tariffs here in the United States. But using forced labor as a

driver for that, which is quite interesting.

QUEST: On this question, we often think, I mean, tier one, tier two, tier three, in terms of supply chains, more and more companies are becoming very

familiar with this, if only because of the sustainability requirements under the goals that you're now required to know what your tier two and

tier three are doing because it accounts for your own CO2 emissions.

But what would you say to somebody who says, the ability to go to tier two, three and four in a supply chain is the luxury of the big companies, not

the SMEs?

DILLON: That used to be the case. That's not the case today. Technology makes it quite affordable and quite quick. We can map your supply chain in

seconds. You don't need to involve your suppliers in that journey. So that argument is off the table now. And the ability for smaller companies, which

we work with some of those as well, we work with some of the biggest companies in the world, but also smaller companies.

What's interesting, Richard, is this isn't just a compliance or a human rights issue. This is a supply chain resilience issue. So let's bring in

geopolitical risk. Let's bring in trade risk. When you start to mesh all of those use cases for supply chain transparency, every company in the world

within the next three years is going to be mapping their supply chains, big or small, industry agnostic.

QUEST: I'm grateful, sir, thank you for joining us. Important subjects, which we'll always talk about on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

Now, this is something that I know is going to tickle your fancy. First of all, of course, Air New Zealand gave us the Sky Couch or the cuddle couch

as it was known. Now they've come up with the Sky Nest. It is a compartment with bunk beds. So will four hours of snooze on that do the trick? I'll

tell you more about it after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:08]

QUEST: On a long flight, stretching your legs, and I don't mean even in a - - just getting your legs, getting horizontal. Better still, even managing to lie down. Now if you're at the front of the plane, of course you can do

that in first or business, but it's economy that's been more limited, where you're stuck in a pretzel like this if you can.

Well, Air New Zealand and Lufthansa offer the cuddle couch. We've talked about it. United is following suit, but ANZ is now adding actual bunk beds.

Look at it. There it is. It's the Sky Nest. It's in the middle part between premium and economy of certain 787 Dreamliners. Six beds, room to crawl,

lie down, got a privacy curtain, USB charging. And early demos have been all over social media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Six lie flat sleep pods wedged between premium economy and economy on the 787 Dreamliner. Each nest comes with fresh bedding and

amenity kit, privacy curtain and USB ports. Getting into the bunk isn't exactly graceful, but once you're in, it's comfy. One passenger per pod,

though, no exceptions. The catch it's $495 for a four-hour session on top of your economy fare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUEST: I think that's quite cheap.

Sarah Kopit is with me, editor-in-chief at Skift.

First of all, economy has been the Cinderella. Air New Zealand has been the one that's done the most. What do you make of the Sky Nest?

SARAH KOPIT, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, SKIFT: I love the Sky Nest. My only gripe with the Sky Nest is that you can only book it for four-hour windows. So if

you're on one of Air New Zealand's 17-hour flights, you only get like a four-hour nap? I don't know, I want it for longer. That's just me, though.

QUEST: Right. But Air New Zealand, because I just read the press release, says that their research into sleep shows that sleep works in 90-minute

cycles, so the four hours gives you a chance to get in, sleep deeply, get out again.

KOPIT: I mean, I would love to be that person, but I'm just not that person. But, but, but, but, I think -- I think it's a fantastic idea. I

can't wait, I hope we see it on all long haul flights.

QUEST: Yes. I mean, it took a long time for the Sky Couch to pick up elsewhere. Do you think other airlines will do this? Air New Zealand has

these 17-hour routes from Auckland up to New Zealand. But then, you know, other airlines have got -- what do you think? Is this something that could

-- it could transmit elsewhere?

KOPIT: I mean, I think it's -- I think it only works if you have these ultra, ultra long haul flights, right? Like I don't really need this in my

flight from New York to Michigan. But I do. I think that, you know, for any of us who remember like the first time you were in business class and just

thinking like, what does this glorious thing was that you didn't know existed before and why there was nothing in the middle? Like why it was

like business, you know, in all of its glory. And then economy, which is like a trash pile. This is -- this is it, like they figured out a way to

like, sort of do it.

QUEST: Right. Right. Now, quickly, United and American, it has no --

KOPIT: Yes.

QUEST: I mean, what do you make of it? He floated a balloon at the White House, but Scott can't believe that it would ever fly.

KOPIT: I don't think so. Look, I don't think so. I am -- I am so curious when I first saw that news come out, you know, I went right to the

Bloomberg story. I used to work there. That is a triple byline. People familiar story. He definitely floated it. You know, I'm not sure what he

was getting at, but it definitely seems like Scott Kirby wants to make a deal with someone for something. There are rumors about him wanting to do

some tie up with JetBlue. So he's definitely -- he's definitely in the mood to like spend some money, buy some stuff, but that's too big of an airline.

QUEST: Right. But the fascinating part is Scott has always said, I'm not going to do a deal. I prefer organic growth because deals distract

management time, deals distract from strategy. So I just wonder if this was the ultimate, I'm just going to float this balloon, but I've really got my

eye elsewhere.

KOPIT: Maybe? I mean, that's -- it certainly doesn't -- it certainly doesn't seem like the one hand is talking to the other in that sense. I

mean, that tie up would be the largest airline on the planet by an order of magnitude.

QUEST: Yes. Back to the Sky Nest, 400 --

KOPIT: Yes.

QUEST: It's about $125 an hour. I'm guessing --

KOPIT: Yes, it's like 500 bucks.

QUEST: Yes. And the -- is that -- what do you think? Is that going to -- do you think people will pay?

[16:55:00]

KOPIT: Yes, I think they -- I think they will. I think they will for -- on those 17-hour flights. I think for people, you know, wherever you are,

lucky dogs, who can just take a four-hour nap, I think they will fly $500 for that. I think you're right. That is cheap for that type of sleep

because it is just so miserable otherwise. And if they make money, other people will do it. You know, capitalism always wins somehow.

QUEST: I like the -- I like the somehow. Thank you. Good to see you, Sarah, as always. Thank you.

KOPIT: Thank you.

QUEST: I'm going to show you capitalism at its very best. Wall Street closed mostly higher on strong bank earnings and peace talks. You've got a

split market. The Dow was down, but the Nasdaq roared up. So you've got the S&P at a record. You've got the Nasdaq at a record. And I think you have an

intra record as -- oh, no. Beg your pardon. Sorry. It just missed the intraday high. The Dow was down.

Look at the 30. Tech led the gains. Microsoft, Salesforce at the top. IBM, Nvidia not far behind. Caterpillar at the bottom. Its losses were enough to

drag the Dow. It's such a big one. It was Caterpillar with that five -- that 4 percent loss that dragged it down.

We'll take a "Profitable Moment" after the break. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

QUEST: Tonight's "Profitable Moment."

I love Air New Zealand because it's Air New Zealand that has been the true innovator for the passenger in economy. And the Sky Nest is just the latest

development of this. Six bunks that you can rent for up to four hours to get a proper bit of sleep. Fully flat.

Now who knows if it'll be extremely successful. Air New Zealand has these very long routes up to Los Angeles, to New York, out towards Asia, but it's

a small airline with great ingenuity that's truly put this forward.

My feeling, my gut tells me the Sky Nest will be successful and it will start -- they will start to license it to other airlines as well.

And one other point, this business with Scott Kirby floating the balloon to buy American, I got a theory here for you. He's following the Donald Trump

theory. I want to buy American. I'm going to go for American. I mean, you can't. You cant. No, no, it's too big. We won't allow it. Well, if I can't

have American, how about I have JetBlue? How about JetBlue instead? Oh, well, now you're being reasonable.

That's the way the sort of thing goes. It was a floating of a balloon designed to get everybody riled with a view at the end to find the

consolation prize that he always wanted at the end of the day.

And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for this Wednesday night. I'm Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to the in the hours ahead, I hope it's

profitable. You and me, here, tomorrow, same time. It's a date.

END