Return to Transcripts main page
Quest Means Business
One Survivor Rescued From Laos Cave, At Least Four Remain; Trump Says He Is Making Final Determination On Iran Deal; Blue Origin Rocket Explodes On Launchpad; Two Wounded After Drone Hits Apartment Building In Romania; NATO: Chief: Russia's Reckless Behavior Is Danger To Us All; United States Judge Halts Work On Trump's "Anti-Weaponization Fund"; Judge Says Trump Can't Add His Name To Kennedy Center, Blocks Planned Closure. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired May 29, 2026 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:16]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: It is the end of just a blockbuster month for U.S. stocks. All three indices closing out May at record highs --
new record highs. Those are the markets and these are the main events: Rescuers will pull one survivor out of a cave in Laos. Now, it is a race
against time to free the others.
Oil prices see their biggest monthly drop in years as President Trump says, a final decision on a deal with Iran is imminent, and Minnesota becomes the
first U.S. state to ban prediction markets. I am going to speak to a lawmaker behind that measure.
Live from Washington. It is Friday, May 29th. I am Jim Sciutto in today for Richard Quest and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
Well, good evening to you. One survivor is finally free after spending more than a week trapped in a dark cave in Laos. This video shows the moment
that man emerged to safety. A CNN producer on the ground reports he appeared to show some health problems. Rescuers are taking a break for the
night with four other villagers still trapped.
Those remaining have stomach and skin issues. Two others remain missing. Operations are expected to resume at 9:00 A.M. local time. That is just
about six hours from now.
Will Ripley has exclusive reporting for CNN from right near the cave rescue site. He describes what he learned there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That the initial divers, including the one who we are going to be speaking with in about 25
minutes, they were the first to actually find these villagers, and they were obviously very emotional and they kept saying to them, you know, don't
cry. What's important now is that you're alive. You're going to be okay.
They were able to give them fresh water, it was the first thing they wanted. They were able to bring them food. They were able to check them out
physically. And even though some of the villagers have been complaining that their health, particularly their breathing is deteriorating because
the air quality in the cave has been getting worse and worse, you're dealing with rising CO2 levels. You've got all that muddy water.
You also have decomposing bat eggs, rotten bat eggs that are leaking a toxic chemical that they've been breathing in. But they spent several hours
actually training these guys basically going over step by step exactly what they're going to need to do to get out of the cave.
So just kind of telling them, you know, they showed them the maps of the cave because they've sent in -- they had a 3-D imagery. They were able to
use a drone company's radar to kind of map out the cave so they can show them exactly what to expect step by step.
Because remember, they came in and then the route that they took was completely flooded. And now they're having to find a way out that, that
they have had to pump out the water and now they have to climb out.
But it is a very difficult -- it is a very difficult climb. Not only the diving portion, which is probably the most dangerous, you know, a hundred
feet in pitch black and they will have headlamps.
But with ice cold water, being physically diminished somewhat because of the ordeal that they've been through, to have to go through that and then
on top of that to then have to climb out and climb at such a steep angle for such an extended period of time.
All, of course, with the full knowledge that if there were to be another rainstorm, that could happen very suddenly this time of year during monsoon
season, all bets are off. I mean, the cave could flood very quickly again.
So just having to keep them calm, keep them focused, and let them know that they have a lot of people waiting for them up at the mouth of the cave,
waiting for them and rooting for them and wanting them to come home and they have been able to exchange video messages as well. That's one of the
miracles of technology that they, they dragged internet cables down there and they've had Wi-Fi and have been able to allow these guys to communicate
with their loved ones.
And I am sure that thought is helping keep them going through throughout this -- literally is the climb of their life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: I mean, some of those passageways is just so confining. Will and CNN producer on the ground, Kocha Olarn spoke to one of the divers involved
in the rescue. She relayed exactly what challenges the rescue team has to face and how the remaining survivors are faring.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOCHA OLARN, CNN PRODUCER: The reasons that all the divers and rescuers are very, very tired. So the guy that he retrieved today has some problem with
his hands and foot because of -- it has been in the water and damp area for a long time and he has some problem at his stomach.
All of them started to have some illnesses already. Some of them have like stomach issues. Some of them have skin issues. And also, the skin at their
hands and their feet have some problem because they've been in a damp area for a very long time.
[16:05:13]
And some of them have intestines issues because they didn't have like -- they didn't go to toilet for a very long time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Butch Hendrick is a rescue diver himself and the President of Lifeguard Systems. Butch, good to have you on.
BUTCH HENDRICK, RESCUE DIVER AND PRESIDENT OF LIFEGUARD SYSTEMS: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: I wonder, you know, as I look at video of this, I mean, I look at those confined spaces, the water, I mean, it has to be challenging.
Can you walk us through exactly what goes into a rescue like this?
HENDRICK: Well, the first piece is to make sure that we try to figure out how to keep our rescuers safe as we possibly can. In this particular case,
the distance that has to be traveled is obviously difficult, 800 to a thousand foot, as I understand it.
But when we look at the concept that there was flooding, as they've been pumping the water out, what is going to happen to the surrounding area is
the ceiling wants to start to collapse or start to give way slightly and start to leave the top, come to the bottom so the space could get smaller,
especially while they're pumping water and moving water.
Next is that as the divers and when they start to come back out, the would- be rescuees, they can't turn around. Some of the spaces in there are so small that there is only one direction you can move. If you're going to try
and get out, you've now got to figure out how you're going to do that backwards. That starts to become an extreme difficulty.
The lack of visibility, many of us have driven in snowstorms with our headlights on, and you get the backscatter and that will make the snowstorm
dark brown and the backscatter is even worse.
So very often, even having lights on can be worse than having no lights on.
SCIUTTO: Yes, yes. It is a good comparison to turning your headlights on in a snowstorm.
You know, when I look at this video here, I can't help but imagine myself in those confined spaces and it strikes me that part of the challenge would
just be keeping mental calm, right? And avoiding panic because, I mean, those spaces are just claustrophobic. Plus, you're going underwater.
HENDRICK: Yes, you have some of the best cave divers in the world coming to you or are already there. People like Rick Merker (ph), who are the top
people. They are used to being in that kind of environment. However, what they've got to do is when they reach the individuals that are going to be
coming out, which you've done, and you've got food and water going to them, now you've got the psychological difficulty of explaining to them and
getting to trust you that you were going to save them, that they're suddenly going to be putting on a breathing apparatus, most likely scuba,
and trying to come out.
It could flood at any moment again, so the dynamics can change rapidly, but getting them to trust you, and it could be I could have five rescuers in
there for four individuals, and one of them only trusts one of you.
And so the pieces are extremely difficult, that psychological side, and then there is the cold temperature.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this because four known survivors are still trapped in the cave, two remain missing. They are said to have stomach issues, skin
issues. I mean, I understand there is an issue with carbon dioxide as well.
Are there lives in danger the longer they stay in there?
HENDRICK: Well, obviously, I am sorry, yes, of course they are, because the more CO2 that they're rebreathing is going to not only cause the lack of
ability to inhale and exhale and lack of oxygen, but it is going to affect the lungs, and that's going to affect the blood system.
And then from there, the skin issues from the debris and the garbage that's in that environment, the dead carcasses of animals that have lived in there
at certain periods of time. So they are going to be having all kinds of different problems that will be medically taken care of once they get them
out, like the boys that were in Thailand.
SCIUTTO: Sure. Well, listen, we, of course wish those rescuers good luck. And Butch, it is good to have your expertise to help walk us through it.
Thanks so much.
HENDRICK: Well, thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: Well, on the ongoing situation with Iran, President Trump has been meeting today with advisors in The White House Situation Room to determine
whether he will agree to a deal, a proposed deal with Iran.
The President posted a lengthy statement on Truth Social just about five hours ago. In it, he spelled out parameters of the deal and said he would
be making a final determination.
[16:10:03]
Oil prices have fallen sharply as investors anticipate he will agree to this deal. Brent crude trading around $90.00 a barrel. The price spiked to
more than $110.00 a barrel just last month.
Anna Cooban is in London.
And Anna, you know, we've had other periods where the President, his advisors, others have said a deal is close. And of course, the fighting has
continued. We've had several exchanges of fire even in recent days.
Now the markets seem to be concluding that this time is serious. Are they reading now that the President is going to make a deal and that we could be
through the worst of this?
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Well, I think they are, Jim. I mean, prices are down nearly 20 percent from a high that they hit
earlier this month. So, this is really good news.
But you're right to say that we've been here before, and not only have we been close to or seemingly close to clinching a peace deal, but actually it
has fallen apart and then it has also been escalated.
So we aren't out of the woods yet. We need to see what happens with all of this. But I will say that I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but even
once this peace deal is signed, there is a whole reality or long process of getting things back to the way they were.
So, for example, one official -- a U.S. official was telling CNN that part of this proposed deal is that Iran would clear the Strait of Hormuz of
mines that it has been laying, but that will be over a period of 30 days. Thirty days is a month and so that is a month of that potentially
happening.
And then you've got to have, I would assume, some sort of verification process, because shipping companies are not going to send their ships
through on Iran's word. And then you've got to repair the infrastructure that's been damaged, restart oil production that has been shut off. That
doesn't take, you know, that's not overnight.
And already, you know, prices are still 25 percent above where they were before this all started, Jim. So this is going to be a long process of
normalization even once it is signed.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no immediate relief. Anna Cooban, good to have you.
Well, a Blue Origin rocket exploded in just a massive, massive conflagration on its launchpad in Florida. You see the images there. The
company says it happened because of what it called a "hot fire." What exactly is that? We will have more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: This is just remarkable and frankly scary to watch.
[16:15:00]
That was the scene last night at Cape Canaveral in Florida the moment a Blue Origin rocket exploded on the launchpad. Blue Origin says the anomaly,
as it called it, happened during a ground test known as a "hot fire."
The company added that everyone was accounted for and safe. That's a relief.
It is a huge explosion. Jeff Bezos says Blue Origin will rebuild and get back to flying. NASA chief, Jared Isaacman said the agency will help the
company with its investigation into what exactly went wrong.
Clare Duffy joins us live from New York.
And listen, you know, we often say this when we were doing space stories, space is hard. NASA, SpaceX, Blue Origin, they've all had accidents prior
to successful launches, but boy, that was a huge, huge explosion.
I mean, is this concerning for this company? Does it put back its time frame for future flights?
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes, Jim, this could be a serious hurdle not only for Blue Origin's future plans, but also for NASA's future plans.
I mean, this was just a remarkable explosion, and you said the most important headline, which is that Blue Origin staff is safe and accounted
for after this explosion. We should also say that Blue Origin is now warning that debris from this explosion may wash up in nearby waterways,
and warning people not to touch that debris if they see it.
But it is going to take some time to figure out here what exactly went wrong, what caused this explosion, and also to assess the damage to this
New Glenn rocket and also to this launchpad, which can take months to repair potentially this kind of damage.
Now, this New Glenn rocket is not the same rocket that celebrities have been sent up in space on, you know, by Blue Origin, this rocket is
competing directly with SpaceX. It is a potentially reusable rocket designed to send satellites and other important payloads up into space and
Blue Origin has contracts with NASA in this Artemis mission to get humans back to the moon.
NASA has hoped that potentially, we could have humans back on the moon as soon as 2028, but everybody is going to need to take a pause here both Blue
Origin and NASA to investigate what went wrong and make sure that this doesn't happen again before this move forward.
As you said there, Jim, Jeff Bezos acknowledged this explosion in a tweet last night. He said it is too early to know the root cause of this, but we
are already working to find it.
He called it a very rough day, but saying we will rebuild whatever needs rebuilding and get back to flying. It is worth it.
And Jim, I just have to say, it is fascinating that they are calling this an anomaly. That is a space term, but by the looks of it, this was a really
bad anomaly.
SCIUTTO: I mean, yes, it is like calling a plane crash an anomaly Planes aren't meant to crash. Rockets aren't meant to explode.
Just very quickly, is there an alternative to the Blue Origin for NASA's plans?
DUFFY: I mean, Blue Origin is in competition with SpaceX, in tight competition. So does this potentially give SpaceX a leg up? You know,
they're very much in the early stages of testing their rocket that would be sending astronauts to and from the moon.
So again, both companies in the early stages, but this is a major setback for Blue Origin. SpaceX's Elon Musk did tweet about this yesterday
basically saying this is unfortunate. Space is hard, acknowledging that this is a challenging space for everybody who is in it.
SCIUTTO: Clare Duffy, thanks so much.
Well, another day on the market, another company soaring in value because of A.I.
Dell stock skyrocketed more than 30 percent Friday, its best day ever. The company reported blockbuster quarterly results. Dell's A.I. servers are key
components in building out A.I. infrastructure.
With today's gains, the PC maker, well used to just make PCs, added more than $50 billion to its market cap. Dell is the latest in a string of
companies, of course, to soar in value because of ai.
The market cap of South Korea's Hynix passed $1 trillion this week. Samsung and Micron also recently crossed that threshold.
Anthropic, meanwhile, has leapfrogged OpenAI in the race to become the first trillion dollar A.I. startup. It raised $65 billion in its latest
round of funding.
Art Hogan, chief market strategist at B. Riley Wealth Management. He joins me now.
Art that's a lot of trillion dollar companies built on A.I. and projections of earnings, I presume. Do they have the earnings? And are you confident
they will have the earnings to justify those market valuations.
ART HOGAN, CHIEF MARKET STRATEGIST, B. RILEY WEALTH MANAGEMENT: Yes, well, there is obviously two ways to look at this right, Jim. So Dell Computers
shocked everybody when -- and we used to call them a computer maker, I guess, we really have to change that because they sold more servers than
they sold computers and that business is now larger than all of their other businesses put together, so that was a shock.
And we find ourselves being surprised almost on a monthly basis by some sector or stock that is doing very well because of the artificial
intelligence revolution. And the latest one of those was memory, pure old memory plays, and Micron is one of those plays that has absolutely
skyrocketed.
[16:20:06]
The things that I am enthusiastic about, though, in that runup in those parabolic moves is Micron's P/E, price to earnings ratio is less than ten,
right?
So compare that to AMD, which has a P/E ratio of about 50. So it is not as though the revenues and the earnings aren't driving this. The same thing is
true of Dell Computer, which went from before its earnings report, a P/E of 36 down to a P/E of 23.
So this is a fundamentally driven story. Now, that's not to say that we are getting ahead of ourselves in some of these semiconductor names that have
gone parabolic. And if you look at the Semiconductor Conductor Index, it is up 80 percent year-to-date, and some of those P/Es are getting to be quite
nosebleed.
Whereas software, which has not traded as well over the course of this year-to-date, have much lower multiples. So there is technology and then
there is a bifurcation of technology. But we certainly found a lot of winners thus far that are away from that original Mag 7 we talked about
when ChatGPT rolled out in November of 2022.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because Dell has a particular quality about it due to President Trump's public comments about it on May 8th, for
instance, saying, "Go out and buy a Dell," which led to a bump in its stock price.
And then we learned later, he has stock in the company. You've been in the markets for a long time, a U.S. President touting a stock, stock goes up,
the President's holdings of that stock increase in value, of course. Is that kosher?
HOGAN: Not even a little bit, and I think public officials probably shouldn't be able to trade stocks publicly, especially when they have the
ability to either regulate things around the industries that those companies are in or actually use the bully pulpit and actually talk about
different technologies.
Now, the same thing would be true if the government decided to invest a lot of money in quantum computing companies or drone companies, which they
have. And if family members of the administration own some of those and profited from that directly.
So I think there is a major question of ethics around any public official that has any ability to move an equity or move a sector through their job
and holding equities. I think that's a conversation that's long overdue.
SCIUTTO: No question.
Let me ask you this, oddly, from a market perspective, is that a good short-term bet, but a bad long-term one because folks don't stay in office
forever. Companies are going to be around longer, presumably than President Trump will be in office or his family members will be the sons of a
President who is in office.
HOGAN: Yes, I would certainly tell you this. I think long term, there are a lot of cutting edge technologies that are getting some government support,
which will likely be the next revolution.
Quantum computing is probably that, but that's probably five or ten years down the road and none of these companies are profitable yet. So I think
that that's, you know, both short-term and long-term are much more speculative operation, but sort of gambling around what an administration
will do has always been very difficult for investors, very much to think about it this way, if you bet on the first Trump administration, that was
going to be great for energy companies in drill, baby drill, that was a very losing proposition.
But if you bet for a green tech and solar energy and all sorts of alternative energy sources, that was a very good bet. So, it is very
counterintuitive sometimes to try to predict what an administration will do for different industries, a topic for a different time, but it is certainly
difficult to make a bet around presidential election cycles.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, when you look at the headline economic figures, GDP growth pretty anemic, revised down for the first quarter. Job market,
pretty flat. Inflation not going down. I mean, it is going up, right? But by the measures that the Fed watches and now you even have talk of interest
rate increases as opposed to cuts, yet the market continues flying unabated.
I mean are we seeing a bifurcation of those two things -- economic indicators and the market itself?
HOGAN: Yes, I think there is a big difference between how things are going on Wall Street for corporate America. Earnings have been very robust. We
just had our sixth quarter in a row of earnings for the S&P 500 that we are in double digits, the S&P 500 in the first quarter of this year had
earnings growth north of 25 percent.
So things can be good for Wall Street and still be bad for Main Street at the same time. We've got a consumer that's in a difficult position. Jobs
are hard to get for recent college grads. Certainly, the price of everything has gone up since the start of the war with Iran. And I
certainly think that's completely understandable.
So two things can be true at the same time, earnings growth has been spectacular, a lot of that driven by the artificial intelligence CapEx
spend. At the same time, prices for everything going up is very difficult for consumers, especially consumers on the lower part of that K-shaped
economy.
SCIUTTO: Art Hogan, always good to have you.
HOGAN: Have a great weekend. Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Coming up, anger and frustration bubbling up within NATO after a drone hits an apartment building in Romania, authorities blame Russia. What
is NATO going to do? What's next?
We will have more right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:28:16]
SCIUTTO: Hello, I am Jim Sciutto. There is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment when I will speak to one of the main Minnesota lawmakers behind the
state's first in the nation ban on prediction markets and a conversation with former Swedish Prime Minister, Carl Bildt on how a suspected Russian
drone strike in Romania is now testing NATO and the U.S. commitment to NATO.
Before that, the headlines this hour:
Rescue operations are expected to resume in Central Laos soon for four villagers still trapped in a flooded cave. The first survivor made it out
just a short time ago, you see him there, after more than a week trapped underground. Two villagers remain missing. The rescue team tells CNN it has
not yet had any contact with them.
U.S. President Donald Trump says he is weighing whether to now approve a proposed deal with Iran. A person familiar with the matter says that Trump
and his advisors met for about two hours in The White House Situation Room. No word yet on the decision.
Before the meeting, Trump posted on Truth Social that Iran must reopen the Strait of Hormuz and agree never to build or possess a nuclear weapon.
A federal judge has ordered the removal of President Trump's name from the Kennedy Center within two weeks. U.S. District Judge Casey Cooper says only
Congress can change the name of the performing arts venue. He also temporarily blocked the center's planned closure for renovations.
Romania says a Russian drone hit an apartment building just across the border from Ukraine. Two people were injured in the strike. Romania's
Defense Ministry says, this is the 28th time that Russian drones have breached Romanian airspace since attacks began on Ukraine's ports just
across the Danube.
[16:30:16]
Seb Shukla is following the story.
SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN FIELD PRODUCER: There is fury in Romania and across Europe as a Russian drone has slammed into a residential building in the
small Romanian city of Galati, near the Ukrainian border.
The damage, while severe, has resulted in only two casualties, none of which were fatal, but had that drone struck any lower down the building at
that time of night, we could be talking about a very different casualty count.
This particular drone, a Geran-2 model, entered Romanian airspace at around 1:50 a.m. local time, but it's not yet clear whether it's a direct
provocation by Moscow or if this is just a errant drone.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. GHEORGHE MAXIM, DEPUTY COMMANDER OF JOINT FORCES COMMAND, ROMANIA (through translator): All available data has been analyzed to
establish the exact sequence of events, and it resulted in the fact that there were no real opportunities to engage it safely.
I want to convey very clearly that the situation is under control. We are not facing an attack on Romania. We are facing the effects of a conflict
taking place right next to our border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SHUKLA: At that time last night, Russia was launching a barrage of attacks against Ukraine, including along its southern coast, in particular,
targeting the port city of Odesa.
But just further along the coast there are a string of ports on the Danube River, which separates Romania and Ukraine, of which Galati is just a
handful of miles away from.
Naturally, the response from Europe and NATO has been one of utter condemnation and very clear messaging. The NATO Secretary General Mark
Rutte, has called the act by Russia last night reckless behavior, and one that endangers us all.
For Romania, they have acted swiftly and decisively, too, by closing a Russian diplomatic mission and declaring the consul a persona non grata.
Russia has said that is aware of the situation, and that President Putin has been brief, but haven't really elaborated any more on the incident.
But it is once again bringing into question the effectiveness of NATO alliance members and its abilities to be able to defend its members from
incursions like these, which are becoming more and more frequent, not only in southern Europe and around the borders with Ukraine, but also in the
Baltic region as well.
It's asking the very simple question: Do frontline NATO nations have the appropriate types of air defense systems and capabilities to be able to
keep their populations safe?
Sebastian Shukla, CNN, Berlin.
SCIUTTO: Joining us now is Carl Bildt, a former prime minister of Sweden, current co-chair of the European Council on Foreign Relations.
Sir, thanks so much for taking the time.
CARL BILDT, CO-CHAIR OF THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Sure, as always.
SCIUTTO: So, as you know, prior to this drone strike, European officials have been warning quite publicly that Russia was preparing for and
considering some sort of attack against the NATO ally. Does this look to you that this drone strike as a deliberate act by Russia?
BILDT: I think that's unlikely, but clearly, we will have to look at the facts very carefully. I think the most likely still that this was a stray
thing that does happen. It was part of a package of, I mean, 40 roughly drones that were sent against Ukraine and Odesa in particularly, and one of
them, or perhaps several more of them, went astray into Romanian airspace.
That being said, we can't entirely exclude that this is part of a more deliberate attempt. I mean, there have been more threatening language used
by Russian authorities against Europe in the last few days, indeed, directed primarily against Kyiv. I think they're desperate about the
situation on the front lines, but also against Europe.
So, I think it is very wise for European leaders to take this seriously. I mean, most probably a stray incident, but not certainly, and I think the
messages should be very clear to Russia. This is unacceptable in every single way.
SCIUTTO: This is, of course, not the first time a Russian drone has either strayed into European airspace or flown deliberately. There have been
instances, as you know, where some NATO partners believe it was deliberate that they collected the drone, for instance, and can tell from its
targeting data, et cetera.
(CROSSTALK)
BILDT: Yes, yes.
SCIUTTO: In your view, has NATO been too weak in its response, not just to these drone strikes, but to other forms of interference and meddling and
sabotage that we have seen Russia carrying out in Europe, or has the response emboldened Russia?
[16:35:12]
BILDT: I don't think it has emboldened Russia as of -- as of yet. I think, there is been fairly firm political messaging from the European countries,
and measures have been taken to beef up defenses along sort of these sort of front line, or whatever you call it.
That being said, it's very difficult to defend against sort of stray things. We have also seen, by the way, occasions of evidently Ukrainian
drones straying into both Latvian and Finnish airspace, when they have been sort of misdirected by sort of Russian countermeasures of different sorts,
and that has been difficult to handle, as well.
As I think primarily it is very, very important for the NATO authorities or the national authorities to be very sort of firm and precise in the
analysis of what is happening, so that we can distinguish what might be a stray incident from what might be intentional Russian provocations.
I think, it's fairly obvious that there is an increasing desperation in the Kremlin over the conduct of the war. They are not winning. They are
beginning to understand that they are not going to win either. But exactly how they will get out of this particular mess that they have created, I
think, there is a profound debate that is emerging in Moscow with that.
SCIUTTO: To that point, you commented earlier today on social media on comments by Russian President Putin, and I'm quoting your interpretation
here. You said, "My interpretation is that he, Putin, has given up on Trump helping him with Ukraine, and knows that he is stuck without any
possibility of success."
Two thoughts occurred to me when I read that one that he believed Trump was going to help him on Ukraine, which is remarkable in its own right. But
two, that he doesn't believe that Trump has the power or capability to do so. Those are two remarkable things, are they not?
BILDT: Yes. Well, yes, you might argue that they are.
I think, he was generally convinced that Trump was going to help him on Ukraine, and indeed, there were sort of ample signs of that being a rather
reasonable proposition, and evidently the Russians, we don't know the details, but we know the Russian view. They believe that at Anchorage they
convinced Trump to agree on sort of an approach to the war and an approach to the solution that he was going to impose on the Ukrainians.
I mean, what we saw happening in Anchorage was, of course, that Trump gave up on the demand for ceasefire and endorsed the Putin-approach of some sort
of political solution, which would entail, also Ukrainians giving up territory that they were still defending.
And the Russians did believe that Trump was going to deliver on that, and I'm quite certain Trump tried to, but Trump, he couldn't do it. He couldn't
do it because European support for Ukraine was fairly firm, and equally Ukraine stood firm.
And I think that's my reading of the -- reading the tea leaves here, but reading of the tea leaves that the Russians are giving up on Trump. They
don't think he can deliver Zelenskyy any longer. Not that he didn't try, but he can't do it.
And accordingly, they are searching for new ways out of the bloody mess they have created, or Putin has created.
SCIUTTO: It's remarkable analysis. Carl Bildt, we appreciate you joining.
BILDT: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Coming up, the prediction market, Kalshi is fighting back after the state of Minnesota passed a law banning all prediction markets.
I'm going to speak to one of the lawmakers behind that ban on the reasoning and what could be next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:41:27]
SCIUTTO: Federal judges temporarily block the Trump administration's plans for a nearly $1.8 billion anti-weaponization fund, as they call it.
President Trump wants the money -- taxpayer money, I should note to go to people who claim to have been unfairly targeted by just the Biden
administration.
The fund has been challenged by critics, who say it's unconstitutional, not particularly popular even with Republican lawmakers. One of the plaintiffs
is a former January 6th prosecutor in the case. The judge paused any payments while she considers their arguments.
Katelyn Polantz is with me now.
So, a judge is blocking this. I'm certain the administration is going to appeal. Where does this go from here?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the way that this is going to move forward, Jim, is it's going to move slowly first
in the trial level courts, not just in this one in Alexandria, Virginia, but in several other courts across the country, before it gets to any
appeals.
So, what happened here is there were a series of lawsuits that have been filed over the last two weeks since the announcement by the Trump
administration. They want to put $1.8 billion into this "anti-weaponization fund" for people that they say have been targeted by Democratic
administrations, payouts being made to essentially allies of the president.
The lawsuits have popped up from a number of different types of people. Former officers for -- or officers serving on Capitol Hill who were injured
in the attack of the Capitol on January 6th, they are fearful that January 6th convicted defendants receive payment from this fund.
There are former justice department prosecutors who have lost their jobs, who are suing -- in this particular case, that is one of the people who has
gone to the judge and asked to stop the fund, but there is also someone who was arrested for protesting in California against Trump administration
immigration policies.
There is New Haven, a sanctuary city. There is nonprofit groups that believe they have been targeted by the administration. They have all gone
to the judges -- judge in the federal court in Virginia, and said, we are being discriminated against. If we don't get the opportunity to get funds
like this, and if they are given to people that are only so-called targets of Democratic administrations, that's not fair.
So, the judge, she is going to look at this at a hearing in two weeks. What she is done now is blocked anything about this fund moving forward, even
the establishment of it, any claims coming in, any money going out, that all is going to sit tight until we get to a hearing, and then, we are also
watching these other cases around the country. What else will happen in the next two weeks, there is going to be a lot of arguments, a lot of close
reading of the legal language of this so-called settlement, setting up this $1.8 billion fund.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Yes.
POLANTZ: And then, we are going to start seeing judges at the trial level, each give their own opinions before then appellate courts will very much
look at what they say.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: OK. So, a judge -- another judge has said that Trump not only can't add his name to the Kennedy Center, but must take his name off. I
mean, folks like myself and yourself, who live in Washington, D.C., you already see that the name is up there, hammered into the marble on the
Kennedy Center. What happens now?
POLANTZ: Well, Jim, they are going to have to follow it, because that's the court order. This judge -- this is Judge Casey Cooper in the federal court
in Washington, D.C. It's a whopper of an opinion, it's almost 100 pages long.
[16:45:00]
And what he says is that the Kennedy Center, when it was established by Congress after John F. Kennedy was assassinated, while he was serving as
president, it is specifically set up as a public memorial to that man. You can't just change the name and add Trump's name to it.
One of the pieces of this opinion that I really appreciated today from Judge Cooper is where he says it's not the same thing as calling, say, the
Federal National Mortgage Association, Fannie Mae, or even calling the Department of Justice the Department of War, something the Trump
administration has also done.
He writes, none of those examples implicate a presidential memorial that was legislatively, by Congress, intended to honor a specific public figure.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Yes.
POLANTZ: The Trump Kennedy Center label adds an entirely new name to the formal title, and it relegates President Kennedy to second place.
And he writes, if that is not a renaming, what is? And he says it just can't be renamed the Trump Kennedy Center.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
POLANTZ: This judge also says that construction can go forward, but he does take issue with how the board of the Kennedy Center closed it for two
years, and how there appears to be a deprivation of a vote where a Ohio congresswoman wanted to vote, she was on the board, and she was unable to
vote on the closure, on funding all kinds of things like that.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Right.
POLANTZ: That Congress has much more power than the Trump administration is giving it. Jim?
SCIUTTO: We'll see where the appeals go from there. Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.
Well, the prediction market, Kalshi, is suing the state of Minnesota due to its new law banning such markets. The suit says the ban violates the
Supremacy Clause, and that federal law gives the CFTC exclusive jurisdiction over "events contracts". Minnesota is the first U.S. state to
fully ban prediction markets. Its law is set to take effect August 1st. Its backers say prediction markets are addictive and prey, particularly on
young people. The ban. CNN is facing a legal challenge from the Trump administration.
We must note this quote: CNN has a partnership with Kalshi, and uses its data to cover major events. But editorial employees are prohibited from
using prediction markets.
Emma Greenman is the Minnesota lawmaker who introduced the measure, and she joins me now. Emma, thanks so much for taking the time.
STATE REP. EMMA GREENMAN (D-MN): Well, thanks for covering this important conversation.
SCIUTTO: So, as you know, supporters of prediction markets, they say they are federally regulated, they're financial contracts, they are not
gambling, and that states are overstepping. What's your response to that argument?
GREENMAN: I think, states across the country have been really clear, this is gambling, and it is gambling on everything. Since Minnesota has been a
territory, we have regulated gambling just like this, and so we are joining the other states who are making it really clear that we are the ones who
have to decide how to protect our citizens and how to protect our communities from this shadowy gambling markets.
SCIUTTO: There is something particular about prediction markets, right? Because, unlike, say, I don't know, choosing black or red in roulette,
unless you can sort of put your finger on the -- on the roulette wheel, here, you have people, there are allegations of folks who have insider
information betting on prediction markets and making a lot of government -- lot of money, including people in government.
Is that a particular risk with prediction markets? But also, does that create a particular legal argument in your case, the ability to manipulate?
GREENMAN: So, the issue of both insider trading, self-dealing, and just gaming these gambling markets is a huge problem, and it's a problem of both
the gambling markets themselves, and also public trust. As we have seen, it feels like every week. Right?
We saw special ops guy betting on the Maduro raid. And then, the next week, we saw candidates, including one in Minnesota, betting on their own races.
And then, the week after that we saw campaign staff betting. And we -- I think, you can see it across industry and across the all of these gambling
markets, is this is a huge problem.
And I will let leave it to our attorney general and to the lawyers for states around the country to litigate the issue, but I absolutely think
that the challenge we have is states are set up to regulate gambling, the CFTC is not. This is not about wheat and corn futures and institutional
investors. This is something totally different that needs to be regulated in the same way we regulate any casinos, lotteries, charitable gambling,
and the kinds of things that states normally do.
[16:50:06]
SCIUTTO: Can you share examples of your constituents who suffered harm from betting on prediction markets?
GREENMAN: So, I had a teacher, send me a photo of a phone that they had confiscated from an eighth grader who happened to be on one of these
markets betting. So, we keep hearing, especially as it relates to young people, most states that have legalized online sports betting, Minnesota
has not, but has said you can't do it until you're at least 21.
Here, we have 18-year-olds, and apparently it is easy to get on if you are an eighth grader, betting, and what we know about gambling addiction is it
is -- it is one of the most dangerous in terms of suicide addictions. It leads to financial consequences, and the younger you are, the more likely
you are to develop really serious problems.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Yes, there are lot of --
GREENMAN: So, that I think is the one thing we are looking at.
SCIUTTO: Lots of stories about young people, particularly, young men -- kids really getting involved in prediction market sports betting, et
cetera. Before we go, I do want to ask you about a separate story. This is an ICE agent just arrested in Texas, charged with assault in connection to
the January shooting in Minnesota of two Venezuelan immigrants. It's the second federal agent, we should note, to be charged over conduct from that
Minnesota crackdown.
In these arrests, do you see some progress in terms of oversight of ICE operations?
GREENMAN: I see in these arrests the first steps to accountability. I don't see oversight. Being a state representative living in Minneapolis, we saw
the out-of-control lawlessness of masked armed federal agents, who were not following not only their laws, but the Constitution, state or federal law.
And so, you know, Renee Good and Alex Pretti were killed by ICE officers and Customs and Border Patrol officers. We have yet seen that justice, but
when we think about the accountability that has to come to prevent future tragedies like this, we need to ensure that government agents follow the
law, the Constitution, and that the rule of law applies to everyone.
And we did not see that in Minnesota. And I think that these arrests are really important, but they are just the beginning.
SCIUTTO: State Representative Emma Greenman, we appreciate you joining.
GREENMAN: Thank you for having me.
SCIUTTO: And we will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:55:14]
SCIUTTO: Rising costs across the U.S. are now driving up food insecurity, pushing more people to rely on free mobile food markets.
Maria Santana went to one such market in The Bronx and brings us this story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARIA SANTANA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The line keeps going and going and going, wrapping around an entire city block.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I've been here since 9:00 in the morning.
SANTANA (voice over): In The Bronx, dozens of people wait for hours carrying carts, bags, and backpacks, hoping to take food home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): It's gotten really hard because prices have gone up so much, and what we make is barely enough anymore.
SANTANA (voice over): It's a scene becoming more and more common across New York City.
PEDRO URBAEZ, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNITY DISTRIBUTION, CITY HARVEST: It all comes down to the affordability crisis that we are seeing here in New York
City, and most folks have to decide how they want to spend their money, and usually food is the last thing they think about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Yesterday, I went grocery shopping, bought maybe three or four things, and it was already $90.
SANTANA (voice over): This mother of two, says coming to City Harvest Mobile Food Markets is no longer a choice, it's a necessity to help feed
her kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I see they are giving out eggs that helps for breakfast, and bananas for snacks for the kids.
SANTANA (voice over): Martina Santos is now a City Harvest volunteer, but says she has also experienced hunger.
MARTINA SANTOS, VOLUNTEER, CITY HARVEST: I've had to skip meals. If I eat breakfast, then, I can't eat lunch because I don't have enough. So, I save
it for dinner, so I don't go to bed hungry.
SANTANA (voice over): A situation she fears could put her health at risk.
SANTOS (through translator): I'm diabetic, I have high blood pressure, I have to eat healthy to keep my condition under control.
SANTANA (voice over): According to City Harvest, more than 1 million New Yorkers, including one in every four children live in households struggling
to put food on the table.
SANTANA: And on a national level, more than 48 million people in the United States live in homes where food is not enough.
URBAEZ: Mobile market serves somewhere between 500 and 600 families per distribution. Most families will be receiving between 20 and 25 pounds of
fresh fruits and vegetables.
SANTANA (voice over): While Martina Santos now helps distribute that food, she says programs like this have saved her life.
SANTOS (through translator): For me, this has been a blessing, helping me through my depression and helping me put a decent plate of food on my
table.
SATANA (through translator): Thank you for volunteering, and everything that you do.
SANTANA (voice over): Maria Santana, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: That is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for today. I'm Jim Sciutto. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
