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Quest Means Business
Pentagon Chief And Top U.S. General Testify On Capitol Hill; Cost Of War Grows As Hegseth Asks For More Funding; Trump: Canada Has Treated Us Poorly Over The Years; Zelenskyy Fires Military Chief Following Widespread Protests; U.K. Pubs And Clubs Face Rising Costs, Smaller Crowds; France Becomes First E.U. Nation To Adopt Social Media Ban Bill; Pan Am Plane Wreckage Found 74 Years After Deadly Crash. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired July 21, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:17]
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Closing bell ringing on Wall Street, the charity that delivers food, God's Love We Deliver, ringing the closing
bell. It has been a strong day on Wall Street. Let's have the closing gavel. And we got it up all day. Oh, and a one and a two, and one, two,
three, four!
Trading is over. The market is up strongly and we will get to the reasons why over the course of the program and an even stronger session on the
NASDAQ. You've got your triple stack. You've got the Dow.
And those are the markets. The main events: On Capitol Hill, it is about money. The Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth has been defending the growing
cost of the Iran War and he is pushing for more funding.
Canada's Prime Minister Mark Carney wants to negotiate after the U.S. slapped 50 percent tariffs on some of his country's goods, and pricey pints
and teetotaling punters. The chair of London Nightlife Task Force about the pressures pushing Britain's pubs over the edge.
We are live in New York on Tuesday, July the 21st. I am Richard Quest and I mean business.
Good evening. The U.S. Defense Secretary has been on Capitol Hill as he is trying to defend the war in Iran and ask for more money. He and the Chair
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff are asking for a $1.5 trillion in funding for the Defense Department, inquest has been going for the last 30 minutes, and
they are facing some skepticism to be said on both sides over the war's aim.
Senator Patty Murray pointed out the administration claimed Iran's capabilities were degraded months ago, and still the fighting continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): Iran has been firing at U.S. Military bases in the region and ships for the last week. How is it possible if their
capabilities were, "functionally destroyed" three months earlier, as you claimed , for them to be doing this now?
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SECRETARY: Senator, Iran is at the weakest point militarily it has ever been in in the past decade, certainly,
maybe in 47 years, as they've gathered, effectively a terror army.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Brian is with me. Brian Todd in Washington. Brian, I was listening very carefully and there wasn't quite the same "Yah-boo! Up yours!" back
and forth that you've got. There was a higher level of, I would say, decorum in the questioning. And, and most of the questioning and the
answering. And I think that's because of the sums of money involved, but more importantly, because they were talking about the loss of life and
injuries.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Richard. But you can probably expect in the minutes ahead that maybe it will get a little bit more testy
as we go.
As you mentioned, there has been a lot of decorum so far. He has faced mostly questions as you played that clip there with Senator Patty Murray
about their munitions being depleted, Iran's munitions being depleted, and then maybe disputing that claim from the Trump administration. But he has
also faced a lot of questions so far about the funding for the war, how they can justify the additional funding that they are asking for, for the
war and by our calculations, they are asking for roughly between $60 billion and $73 billion additionally for the war.
He was pressed -- Hegseth was pressed by Senator Dick Durbin, a Democrat from Illinois, about how much the war has cost so far and he said $37.5
billion. So that's how much Hegseth has said the war has cost so far. They are asking the U.S. government for $60 billion to $73 billion or asking
Congress, I should say, for $60 billion to $73 billion more.
But clearly, Defense Secretary Hegseth is going to face more pointed questions about what are you going to do to justify that money if we give
it to you? He will face those especially pointed questions from Democrats as they question him about an end strategy. What is this all going to lead
to? What is the strategy to end this war?
He will also be asked, of course, about some reporting that CNN and other outlets have done about the slow nature of the Pentagon in reporting
injuries in this conflict. We've reported that the Central Command has not been consistent about reporting injuries in the conflict so far.
QUEST: On the question of Ukraine, Senator Durbin made a very valid point that as he finished basically the war in Iran is a war of choice. The war
in Ukraine or war on Ukraine, and making the point that the administration needed to do more to support. But I mean, all Secretary Hegseth did was
basically say, well, the Ukrainians are now doing more drones.
TODD: That's right. You know, there has been a real lack of emphasis from Defense Secretary Hegseth and his colleagues about the war in Ukraine. They
don't talk about it very much.
[16:05:10]
As you pointed out there, Richard, he responded very curtly when he was asked about it just then. They want to keep the focus on Iran, but even
then, we can tell you that they haven't been -- again, they've been a little bit slow to report on injuries and casualties there. He is going to
face questions about all of that. And it was interesting, as you pointed out, that Senator Durbin pointed out that maybe the U.S. and Ukraine
together could have contributed to winning this war in Ukraine at this point, but instead, the Iran War, which he, as you said, he claimed, is a
war of choice, is ongoing and that has distracted from it.
So, again, some of these questions you said, Richard, it has been a full of decorum so far that may deteriorate in the next hour or two, as the
senators, especially on the Democratic side, may get frustrated with his answers.
QUEST: I am grateful. Thank you, Brian.
Brian Todd in Washington.
The hearing that we are talking about, the conflict is putting renewed strain on American resources as Brian mentioned.
Dan Caine said the war had cost almost $38 billion and that is set to grow, with experts saying the military has used significant portions of key
missile inventory. President Trump says he has no intention of ending the fighting soon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are not finished at all, but if we left right now, it would take them a long time,
years, years to rebuild. But we are not leaving right now.
Honestly, they haven't seen anything yet. We've been nice. We've been nice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: General Clark -- Wesley Clark, former NATO Supreme Allied Commander, now founder of Renew America Together. The General is with me.
And as you listen to this, there are two areas I think I want -- you know, what struck you most about what we are hearing so far?
GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, I think the Democratic senators are raising their policy objections and the
concerns about how the war began, whether the President was properly advised and so forth. And I think, the Secretary and the General are just
trying to preserve the privacy of their advice to the President and also trying to defend themselves from a war that's turned to be very, very
difficult.
QUEST: So as you look at it and the ability, going forward, I mean, there was first of all, this accusation that the number of injured is not being -
- of U.S. Forces being injured, some seriously, is not being reported either with the accuracy or the efficiency that it should be, which of
course would be very distressing.
CLARK: Well, you know, one of the things that we have learned from watching the Ukrainians is they do not report their losses. So every day, you may
hear about missile strikes on Kyiv, but you don't hear how many Ukrainian servicemen were killed. That's information that does have Intelligence
value to our adversary.
And one of the things we learned in Vietnam and have learned since then is that when you are dealing with the public and their understanding, they
focus on casualties rather than on other aspects that are important in understanding the conflict.
Now, these casualties are tragic. And certainly our commanders are doing all they can, I am sure, to prevent them. But the truth is that, war is a
risk, and when you put men and women over there, there are likely to be casualties and that's just a fact.
And, so I understand why the Pentagon is trying to withhold some of that information. And I hope our viewers do, too.
QUEST: There would be, I suppose, a suggestion that that might be valid point provided, General Clark, eventually the full numbers do come out and
are made public.
CLARK: Of course, they come out eventually, and that's important and leaders have to be held accountable for their performance.
QUEST: Right.
CLARK: But I think in the day-to-day struggle here, it is important that for example, you don't want to tell the enemy exactly where a missile
struck. What element it hit, the name of the person immediately because they might use it for targeting. So I think there is reluctance to share
some of this information.
I fought in Vietnam and I know that we were very prompt in reporting casualties and sometimes that over powered the public appreciation of what
the soldiers themselves were trying to accomplish. So there is a balance here.
In a democracy, the people and representatives deserve truth, but on the other hand, we have to have military operational secrecy to a point.
[16:10:07]
QUEST: This business of, you know, the ammunition and the missiles and the running down of the stocks, I guess, to somebody like myself who really has
very little idea of how all this is done other than the fact that you use them and they have to be replenished, are you concerned that the United
States is deploying and using armaments at a rate not only that can't be replenished, but that is worryingly fast?
CLARK: Yes. I think we are all concerned about the rate of expenditure of critical munitions, and especially defensive missiles like the Patriot and
the THAD and efforts are being made to accelerate the production, but they are slow. These are complex systems.
On the one hand, you could say, well, they are made to be used, but on the other hand, we've got some big challenges facing us. So yes, we are
concerned.
Now, I will tell you that we've got a very large store of conventional bombs that can be equipped with guidance kits called Joint Direct Attack
Munitions and this is what is being used in a majority of the strikes currently, I think, underway in Iran.
QUEST: I am grateful to you, General. Thank you for helping us through the thicket of this. It is very important. Thank you, sir.
Now, Canada says it will intensify trade talks with the U.S. after President Trump announced a new 50 percent tariff on some of its imports
affecting around five percent of Canadian goods. It will be one of the highest tariff rates to take effect since the Supreme Court struck down
most tariffs earlier this year.
The Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney, says his main goal is to secure a trade agreement and that Canada is not afraid to retaliate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK CARNEY, CANADIAN PRIME MINISTER: We will look at all options in terms of how we would respond if they do come into effect. That is part of what
we will be discussing with premiers.
Also in parallel, as I just said, that I had spoken with the President. We agreed to intensify discussions. We will begin that right away and this is
this is part of the negotiations. So the first objective is to get a comprehensive agreement. The benefits, obviously, of both countries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, President Trump's Trade Rep hinted more tariffs could be coming. Ambassador Greer told CNBC he expects to see some action soon.
Kevin Liptak is at The White House. They don't let up this administration, do they?
I mean, this particular set of tariffs was because of supposed accusations of unfair trade in autos and a variety of others. But the other lot that
could be coming that Greer is talking about are because of the deadline under the rule that they had to use because of, you know, where I am going
with this. They never give up.
KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes and they have actually opened sort of a new front in the trade war with the authorities that the
President is using for these Canadian tariffs. It is under this 1930 law that has never actually been used before. They are trying to patch together
back the tariff regime that was deemed illegal by the Supreme Court.
And so the President seems to be using Canada as something of a test case here to see if it will get challenged in court, see if the courts uphold
it. And if they don't, perhaps they will have to go back to the drawing board.
But if it is deemed legal, then the President could use this authority elsewhere around the world to impose these 50 percent tariffs. You know, I
think there had been a thought, you know, in that period after the Supreme Court had ruled against the tariffs as the Iran War was raging, that saw
all of these other pressures on prices and inflation that maybe the President would back off somewhat, because politically, he doesn't want to
have prices rising right before the midterm elections.
But I think this is just evidence that those thoughts were aspirational, and the President is still plowing very much ahead with this trade war and
these tariff wars.
QUEST: It is philosophical for the President, as you and I have discussed before, but the speed and range and, for example, threatening Canada with
tariffs to pay for the losses as a result of the wildfires, it seems as if the administration doesn't really bother or care whether relations with the
northern neighbor, it is just how low they get.
LIPTAK: No, not at all. And especially, you know, for President Trump, who thought he had a good relationship with Mark Carney, and I think Carney
thought the same, and then that seemed to have just deteriorated completely. And he shows, you know, a complete willingness to completely
bottom out this relationship. And still, I think when you look at the way he has dealt with other leaders around the world is sort of striking.
You know, he doesn't show the same impulse to tariff China, for example, especially in the lead up to this State Visit from Xi Jinping in September.
He has shown almost fealty and deference to China over the last year or so as that trade relationship seemed to balance out.
[161505:10]
It is a complete opposite for Mark Carney, but also for the leaders in Europe who you've seen the President go after very, very harshly as well.
You know, those wildfire tariffs, this is -- the 50 percent that he put on yesterday is separate and apart from those wildfire tariffs. It is not at
all clear how the administration will justify those legally. But it just shows that the President is very willing to go after what have been
traditional allies. And, you know, you saw him standing next to Mark Carney at the World Cup Final over the weekend, and they seemed like they were
getting along, and then, you know, a day later, he imposes these new tariffs on the country.
They don't go into effect for 30 days, so there is a potential off-ramp here, but it just I think is remarkable.
QUEST: I had another question, but that will have to wait for another day as the hour moves on.
Kevin Liptak at The White House, I am grateful.
Two of the largest producers of weight loss drugs are facing off in court. Novo Nordisk is suing Eli Lilly in the U.S. accusing the company of false
advertising. We will get to that in just a moment.
Oh, the bell is not working!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: The U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary says the cyclospora outbreak is under control. The Secretary says the source of the outbreak
has now been identified and appropriate recalls implemented.
People in the U.S. are changing what they eat because of the parasite, which is linked to chopped lettuce. Placer A.I., a firm that analyzes foot
traffic says visits to Taco Bell were down nearly 19 percent on Friday. Chipotle, Chopped, Panera Bread and Subway also fell as a result of people
avoiding these places in case the lettuce may have come from the same source.
The FDA now says lettuce supply by Taylor Farms is the likely source. The company announced a recall, and Taco Bell says it has removed Taylor Farms
lettuce from its restaurants.
Elisabeth Buchwald is with me. Is it Taylor Farms and is it the lettuce?
ELISABETH BUCHWALD, CNN BUSINESS ECONOMICS REPORTER: The million dollar questions for, especially for the people who have spent a lot of time on
the toilet, I think we don't fully know yet. They said, the FDA and CDC have said that it is the likely source, but 100 percent confirmation, not
there yet.
[16:20:03]
QUEST: So, I mean, you know, if you are Taco Bell, if you are any of these chains and you've suffered this, this is crisis management on a large
scale, isn't it? Because not only have you got to deal with the issue, you've then got to take the lettuce off or whatever it might be, and you've
got a source of lettuce and you really don't know.
BUCHWALD: Yes, I would add though, it almost is harder to be a competitor to Taco Bell because you're being perceived as though you are on the same
scale. And anything with lettuce is now perceived in the consumers' minds as it could be linked.
Now, here is what is really interesting to me, Subway had actually the worst day compared to the prior weeks for the six months averaging that.
They had the worst day last week, even worse than Taco Bell, and you can see that people are kind of getting mixed up in where should I go? Where
should I not go? It improved the next day, but nevertheless, worse than Taco Bell.
QUEST: So last week, I was driving across America, as you may know, on route 66 and the various fast food places that we did stop at, you know, we
constantly had the debate, should we have the lettuce? Should we have the lettuce? When we were buying food to eat in the R.V.? Do we buy and wash
the lettuce?
I can't help feeling, isn't this just sort of the natural vicissitudes of life that come up every now and again?
BUCHWALD: It seems like there is always something else, and yes, fast food seems to be most prevalent, but also that's where we are all dining at.
That's where, as you said, on Route 66, that's where people go.
So when you mix a lot of people and a lot of different ingredients, it seems like somethings bound to go wrong. This one feels like it is going
really wrong.
QUEST: A quick final question to you, because I know you look at -- obviously, we talk a lot about tariffs and trade. What do you make of these
Canadian tariffs. What do you make of all of that? Is this going to get much worse, do you think?
BUCHWALD: Well Richard, I was listening to Kevin before and I think he hit the nail on the head. But yes, I think it could get a lot worse because we
are opening the floodgates here. What happened was he is saying that these tariffs are coming for countries that are discriminating against U.S.
goods. This feels a lot like countries with the emergency economic powers, where you can kind of mold it to whatever you want and that's where I think
it could get pretty interesting.
QUEST: I am grateful. Thank you. Just don't eat lettuce before you actually look at the time.
Thank you.
Now, Novo Nordisk is suing Eli Lilly. Why? Well, it is accusing it of rival or false advertising in the race to dominate the weight loss market.
Novo says Eli ads falsely claim its treatments outperform Wegovy and Ozempic by relying on outdated clinical data. Eli Lilly says its
advertising is backed by science. They are battling for a share of the fast growing obesity drug market.
Anna Cooban is in London.
Surely, there is enough to go around.
ANNA COOBAN, CNN BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS REPORTER: Well, Richard, there really should be. I mean, this market is absolutely booming. Everyone --
well, a lot of people around the world are clamoring for these drugs. Now, this is a duopoly in the same way that you've got Airbus versus Boeing,
Visa versus Mastercard. You have Eli Lilly versus Novo Nordisk.
Now, the specifics of this case are noteworthy. On the one hand, Novo is saying it is not fair that in this ad campaign, Eli Lilly, you compared a
low-dose version of our drug to a high dose version of yours. Obviously, it is going to show that there is more weight loss. You should have compared
it to a higher dose version of our drug.
Eli Lilly saying, hang on, we cited a robust scientific study. We stand by our advertising and we are going to fight this legal challenge with all of
our might.
But rewind a little bit to a few years ago, Novo Nordisk is very much on the back foot here. They want to be advertising their drugs to people in
the United States, because obviously that's how they are going to sell them, because they were really the front runner a few years ago and their
share price has tumbled by 20 percent over the past year due to really fierce competition from Eli Lilly, their patent running out or expiring in
many parts of the world, and this was the company -- is the company behind Ozempic, Richard, the diabetes drug.
That drug is still synonymous with this weight loss drug boom industry era that we find ourselves in. But they are on the back foot right now,
Richard.
QUEST: Right, now, but isn't the problem with Ozempic? And I will declare the interest here that I take Ozempic for prediabetes. Isn't the problem
with Ozempic exactly, it has been attached to a medical condition, pre- diabetics, diabetics. Therefore, it has not been introduced and it is more expensive, by the way, it has not been introduced to the genre of lose
weight quick in the same way as Mounjaro, and many of the others have been.
COOBAN: Yes. Well, I think psychology -- the psychology of these companies is quite interesting. Novo Nordisk is a Danish company. It has been working
in Europe for many, many years and obviously, also the United States. But it is really having to compete with Eli Lilly in a way that's highly
commercial with these big advertising campaigns.
You know, during the Super Bowl this year, it was the first time that Novo had had a Super Bowl ad on American T.V.
[16:25:09]
And so they are really having to go toe-to-toe with this massive, you know, pharma giant in the United States and they have released a pill version of
their drug that competes with Eli Lilly's pill version of that drug. You don't have to inject it, but there are some issues with Novo's pill. You
can only take it with food, or you have to wait half an hour before eating.
So, you know, there are many different reasons why that can explain why Novo is on the back foot, but it is trying to get supremacy again. And one
of the ways it can do that, Richard, is by advertising in the United States. And so, it is no surprise that when it feels like it has been
treated unfairly by Eli Lilly, it is really coming out strong.
QUEST: I am grateful. Anna Cooban, thank you very much indeed.
It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
From Soho to Shoreditch, London, it is filled with the clubs catering to those who want to dance and drink well into the night. So why is so much of
the city's nightlife industry struggling to stay afloat?
QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Breaking News: Ukraine's President Zelenskyy has removed the head of his military and said in a post that Mykhailo Drapatyi will be the
country's new commander-in-chief. It comes after the firing of Ukraine's popular Defense Minister last week.
It is all turning into a rather nasty spat over and split because of the country's leaders arguing over the war strategy.
Nick Paton Walsh is with me.
First, you lose the Defense Minister, now you've got the Army Chief. but, you know, there is a lot of background history and jockeying for positions
here. But what's really behind it all?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think really this is a generational shift, and it is another moment, I
think, where Ukraine's President, Volodymyr Zelenskyy appears to have suffered quite a self-inflicted injury here over the past week or so.
The departure of the Defense Minister, Mykhailo Fedorov, 35, young, popular, really a disrupter, tearing up so much of the bureaucracy, some
might say the cronyism of how the war was run and making enemies while doing it, publicly clashing with the head of the general staff, basically
the top general and commander, Oleksandr Syrskyi.
[16:30:24]
Clearly, Zelenskyy said that the two men couldn't get along and he was having to adjudicate between them. You can't run a war like that. And it
was Fedorov who had to go. Queue protests in the streets supporting Fedorov. Ukraine, acutely aware of the political weight protests carry. And
then they switched their attention to protesting against Syrskyi, demanding his removal to a number of days in which there clearly is a hunt on for the
next head of the military.
He's interviewing candidates, Zelenskyy, and we have the announcement today, a generational shift, a man 17 years Syrskyi's younger. Mykhailo
Drapatyi, at the front lines throughout in some of the most complex battles will now lead that. But we've had a remarkable few days of turmoil.
Zelenskyy's proponents will say, look, this is democracy in action. This is the man listening to what civil society and his population wants. Others
will say this was politics and visible before it even started.
QUEST: Right. But does this infighting, pardon the pun in a sense, does it damage the strategy and the strategic position? Because Ukraine at the
moment, and correct me, please, but it would -- from what we're hearing, it seems to be on the front foot at the moment. And to have this nasty sort of
argument could be very damaging.
PATON WALSH: Look, we don't know how this is going to play out, obviously, but Zelenskyy hasn't chosen an outsider here. He's chosen one of the top
commanders already in the military, the commander of the joint forces. So a man who's already got his feet under the same table as Syrskyi. Yes,
there's bound to be bad blood because of how this has played out. And there is clearly still a younger generation who want change.
They want open tenders for military equipment. They want drones, drones, robots, and more robots to try and fight this war because of a lack of
manpower. The same challenges are going to remain. But I think President Zelenskyy has taken this moment where an old guard, a very Soviet minded
commanders who, you know, let's face it, did well in the opening years of the war.
QUEST: Right.
PATON WALSH: Could potentially have stymied some of the reforms we've been seeing, the use of technology that Fedorov was at the forefront of, too,
here, and potentially save that moment of reform and evolution that's been Ukraine's benefit.
QUEST: Right.
PATON WALSH: Putting on the front foot now, Richard.
QUEST: I'm grateful. Nick Paton Walsh in London tonight. Nick is in London and our next story is in London as well.
The new British Prime Minister Andy Burnham has turned the U.K.'s cost of living crisis on his first full day, telling his new Cabinet the government
must help people make ends meet and at the same time show fiscal discipline. As part of his plan, his government would scrap a digital I.D.
program and use that money to pay for VAT cut on electricity bills. He urged his Cabinet to think of similar measures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDY BURNHAM, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: We need to every day think, well, what can we do just to take that little bit of pressure off people's
shoulders, just to give them that little extra sense that help is coming so that they can have that bit of hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, the prime minister has lamented that the financial pressures keep many Britons from being able to go out to the pub and have a pint. The
pint, if you want to know, it's nearly five pounds, five quid on average, $6.50. If you're going into London, in Central London, it could be $13 or
more.
The British Beer and Pub Association says 161 pubs closed during the first quarter of the year. Nearly two pubs a day. Those remaining are having to
fight harder for their Schroyer of a smaller pie. Britain's nightlife sector has taken a hit of all ages who can't afford to go out. Younger
people simply aren't interested in drinking alcohol.
Cameron Leslie is with me, co-founder and director of Fabric, one of London's most celebrated nightclubs, chair of the London Nightlife Task
Force.
You know, it's getting worse all. I spend a lot of time, obviously in London and all my friends in the industry say that whether it be rates,
whether it be cost of staff, whether it be permits or whatever it is, the cost of running a nightlife institution in London is putting people out of
business. What can people do?
CAMERON LESLIE, CO-FOUNDER, FABRIC LONDON: Well, it's a very good question. I mean, the challenges and the pressures that have been growing on venues,
hospitality venues of any kind, but focusing on nightlife have just increased dramatically. It's not all doom and gloom. But there are some
really big challenges that all of the operators are facing and the task force that I've been chairing for the last year, the work we've been doing,
the research we've been doing has really sort of been getting under the skin of it.
And -- well, it's been quite revealing. And certainly as an operator myself, reaching out and seeing how other operators are doing, it's been
quite, quite eye-opening.
QUEST: Right. What needs to happen? What change needs to take place?
LESLIE: Well, there's a lot of different factors in place. I mean, if you look at where the challenges are, there are a lot of areas that are related
to central government. So we have things like business rates. We have VAT, we have rising energy bills. These aren't necessarily things that we could
be looking perhaps on a London level towards our mayor. However, there are now things that are happening certainly within London that I think can give
us room for optimism.
There's a lot of changes within licensing and if that can come into play with things like the planning system as well. And we've got 32 boroughs
that if they all come into play in the same way that we believe they can, and our report shows, then we can start making a sort of some headway into
some of these quite difficult and complex challenges in their own right.
QUEST: At the end of the day, it's one of those very difficult areas because there's always seemingly another chain or another company or a big
group that will move in. It's the independents that are being hit hardest. It's, you know, and if you look at places like Soho and Shoreditch, the
character of the place comes from the unique establishments, not from the big chains.
LESLIE: I totally agree. And I wouldn't say -- I wouldn't say that's necessarily 100 percent true in terms of the chains. I think the venues
that are probably proving themselves the best and certainly within sort of the later nightlife are the independents. It's quite a fragmented business.
And you will find that those that are most mobile that have embraced things like hybrid spaces that are able to sweat the day part and do things at
night and do things fast and mobile and have integrity and credibility, and can reach an audience in a way that's actually real, then you're finding
that that's where people are choosing to go.
QUEST: Well, we shall have to come and visit you at Fabric. QUEST MEANS BUSINESS from Fabric, I think that's a -- that's something that's on the
cards in the future. We'll do a summer Friday. It's 9:00. You won't notice us. You can put us in the corner and we'll keep quiet. That's all for you.
Thank you very much.
LESLIE: See you there, Richard.
QUEST: Thank you very much.
Now, starting in September, children under the age of 15 will no longer be permitted to use social media in France. The first in the E.U. to approve
such a step.
Melissa Bell reports from Paris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: France has become the first E.U. country to ban social media for under 15's, following in the
footsteps of Australia, who banned social media for under 16's and the United Kingdom, which had announced a similar project for children there.
The idea is that children under 15 will, from September 1st, no longer be able to set up any accounts on social media and from January 2027, any
existing accounts will be discontinued. The idea was one of the ones that Emmanuel Macron had announced would be one of his flagship measures for his
second term. It's expected to take effect from September.
We had a chance to speak to some schoolchildren at the international school here in Paris about what they thought.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I use certain apps to see what people are doing, to see where they've been and what the kind of things that they're doing are.
BELL: So do you think you're going to miss it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I think, I think I would, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With social media, people often compare themselves with other people and that's just unhealthy. And it's bad for people's mental
health.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll probably have a little bit more free time, which I might be able to spend with friends, which I think is, you know, a little
bit better than on social media. But I think I'll be able to do like, I like gaming and I like social media. Like, I like doing those things. So
it's a little bit sad not to be able to like share my accomplishments or not to be able to like update, get updates as quickly on things, you know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BELL: Other European countries like Spain, Greece and Denmark are also looking at similar legislation. And E.U. wide there is the possibility
there may be a block wide ban at some point. Ursula von der Leyen has set up a panel to look into the question of how better to protect children
online.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Seventy-four years ago, a Pan Am flight crashed off Puerto Rico in a disaster that would change the future of airline safety. And now the final
resting place of Clipper Endeavor has been found. Teams from the Air Sea Heritage Foundation-Discovery Channel located the wreckage off Puerto
Rico's northern coast. It was a Douglas, D.C. Four. 69 people were on board when it went down.
[16:40:03]
All of them survived the impact. Only 17 were rescued. The rest went down with the sinking plane. As a result, many people just stayed in their seats
because they didn't know what else to do.
Tom Foreman is with me.
This crash in many ways was, you know, it changed the way air safety was viewed.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it changed the world. I mean, the simple truth is, when you read that old report on this crash, it is really
heartbreaking because this kind of unfolded in slow motion. The plane took off. It had a problem with one engine. It seemed to have a problem with
another engine. It was talking to the tower, saying, look, we think we're going to come back here because this isn't working. They were slowing their
airspeed. They were turning things that you understand as a pilot, Richard, better than I do, but trying to get back to the airport and finally they
said, we can't do it.
So they went down and ditched in the water. Everyone survived that. But what they couldn't survive was a three-minute sinking time when people
there had not been told ahead of time what to do. When you read the report, there was a tremendous amount of confusion about where to find life vests,
how to make them work, how to get the life boats out, how to get out, which exits. There were language barriers. There were babies on board.
There was just a lot going on here that that amount of time did not allow people to understand. And when it was all over, one of the chief
recommendations was we need to be telling passengers about this before you take off, just like they do all the time now because of this crash.
QUEST: But what's fascinating, I mean, obviously this is a tragedy and -- what's fascinating is now we're having to tell people, Tom, don't take your
stuff with you.
FOREMAN: Oh, I know.
QUEST: Don't take your stuff with you because if you do, you're in pending, I mean, history, I know that's not so much on this topic, but you are --
you obviously cover that side of the story as well. It's a never-ending feast of it.
FOREMAN: Oh, of course it is. Of course it is. And it's remarkable because I often think that people who brush these things off easily have never come
close enough to them to understand how badly it can go sideways really fast. You look back at history like this and you do see it.
I'll tell you this, Richard, you've flown a lot. I've flown a tremendous amount in my life. To this day, I listen to every safety announcement when
it comes on, and I always count the number of seats between me and the exit row because I'm saying, look, what if we're in darkness? What if we're in
water? What if we're in smoke and I can't see?
QUEST: Yes. Likewise.
FOREMAN: I want to be able to feel my way forward and get out. And yes, I don't want anybody trying to drag a suitcase when that happens. Leave it
behind. Get off the plane. You can buy another suitcase. You cannot buy another minute of life.
QUEST: Indeed. Thanks, Tom. I'm grateful. Unfortunately we --
FOREMAN: Remarkable story.
QUEST: No more minutes left on this particular program. Thank you very much tonight. Good to see you.
That's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I am Richard Quest. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead -- where's the bell? There we go. That's better. I think
it's a bit of oil, I think. Bit of oil. I'll be seeing you. Coming up next, we're off to Turkey for "WORLD OF WONDER."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:45:37]
QUEST: I'm Richard Quest.
We're sailing.
I love traveling the world. And I'm not done yet.
It's time to embrace new adventures.
This doesn't get much better than this, does it?
Seize the moment in this WORLD OF WONDER.
Whether luxurious restaurants or street foods, the tastes here make any trip truly special.
Now, that is perfection.
(Voice-over): And to make your mark in this highly competitive field, you really have to stand out.
Delicious.
(Voice-over): Refika Birgul does exactly that.
REFIKA BIRGUL, CELEBRITY COOK: Now you're going to watch my favorite salad of all times by far.
QUEST (voice-over): Refika has millions of followers on various digital and social platforms. She is a familiar face to all who love Turkish food.
BIRGUL: Perfect. Make sure that all the meat is clotted with the juice.
QUEST (voice-over): I love any food and breakfast is by far my favorite meal of the day.
It's very nice that.
(Voice-over): And so I've been invited in Refika's TV studio kitchen, where she works with a group of incredibly talented, young, enthusiastic content
creators. They are going to film her and now my every move. Today that means teaching me how to make a dish that starts the day for so many people
in Turkey.
Tell me what we're going to make.
BIRGUL: We're going to make menemen.
QUEST: Carry on.
BIRGUL: I make it in a specific way, which I have learned from an old guy in Edirne, another city in Turkey, and we have perfected it. And I believe
you're going to eat the best menemen ever.
QUEST (voice-over): Refika even has her own branded knife, which I'm using to chop, chop.
If you haven't got these peppers, what are the -- just a regular bell pepper would do?
BIRGUL: Oh, yes, it will do.
QUEST: A bell pepper will do.
BIRGUL: If you want it hot, if you like it hot, you can use the hot one as well.
QUEST: It's so intimidating cooking with you.
BIRGUL: No, no.
QUEST: Absolutely.
BIRGUL: No, thank you. That's your kindness but --
QUEST: No, it is because you know what you're doing.
(Voice-over): Refika doesn't call herself a professional. Of course she's wrong.
Excuse me, excuse me.
(Voice-over): As is proven by this stack of cookbooks, many of them she wrote.
Sorry. What are these?
BIRGUL: My books. Yes, that took me nine years to make.
QUEST: You're not a professional. Not a professional. Thank you.
BIRGUL: And actually, I'm a big nerd.
QUEST (voice-over): A complete nerd, and a butter loving one, too, which is exactly the perfect sort of nerd.
BIRGUL: OK, there are four tablespoons of butter.
QUEST: You can never have enough butter.
BIRGUL: Yes. That's right. And these four peppers get in. As it slowly simmers, it becomes caramelized. Smell it.
QUEST: Ooh, listen. But listen to it.
BIRGUL: Yes.
QUEST: Listen to that. Wonderful.
BIRGUL: And we have three big tomatoes. A kilo of tomato.
QUEST: Diced?
BIRGUL: Diced.
QUEST: Just all in?
BIRGUL: Yes. All with the water.
QUEST (voice-over): Such beautiful red tomatoes. And they are a staple, of course, in many Turkish dishes.
BIRGUL: And also we should add some salt.
QUEST: I'm never sure how much salt to add to these things.
BIRGUL: You have to do it step by step and taste.
QUEST: Perfect.
BIRGUL: And we have a bit of sujuk. Sujuk is like chorizo of Turkey. We're going to slowly dice them. Would you like to do that?
QUEST (voice-over): So far, the recipes included peppers, butter, tomatoes, and some delicately diced Turkish sausage.
BIRGUL: Now we add the meat and a bit of the cheese.
QUEST: What sort of cheese?
BIRGUL: Melting cheese. So let the meat cook for one minute. Meanwhile, we are going to have our eggs. Four or five eggs would be sufficient for this.
[16:50:05]
QUEST (voice-over): This is a breakfast dish and breakfast means eggs. And they make all the difference. So if you're going to menemen, you've got to
break an egg or two.
What are we doing with it?
BIRGUL: Break them in.
QUEST: I'm envious of you already being able to do that with one hand. I've tried to learn how to do that with one hand.
BIRGUL: Let's do it today. Come. Break it in a place like this.
QUEST: Oh, (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
BIRGUL: No, no, no, no. Come on. This finger is here. Yes. Crack it. Press. Yes, and open.
QUEST (voice-over): What did you expect? Oh, sorry.
Well, sort of.
(Voice-over): In the end, I got there.
Oh, grande elegante.
(Voice-over): Magnificent. A sprinkle of this, a little of that.
BIRGUL: Then we shouldn't open the lid for three minutes.
QUEST (voice-over): Curb my impatience and bingo.
Oh, look at that.
(Voice-over): There is only one last thing.
BIRGUL: Because I love you so much I'm going to give you the end of the bread, OK?
QUEST: The crusty bit.
BIRGUL: The crusty bit.
QUEST: Very nice.
BIRGUL: Before we eat it, shall we share it with the team outside?
QUEST: Would be a shame to. Yes, of course, because sharing is what food is all about.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Well, this is interesting, isn't it?
(Voice-over): I'm in southeastern Turkey in the city of Sanliurfa.
That's what you call a feeding frenzy.
(Voice-over): Famed for its spice culture, history, and for a day sightseeing and bargain hunting. But here you do need a strong stomach for
the bazaars.
Can I try one? Thank you, sir. Deliciously sweet. We need to get some cherries later. They're lovely.
(Voice-over): There may be some unfamiliar dishes to be eaten at breakfast as explained by Ahmed, who kindly has come from Istanbul to show me round
and lead me on. First, what to drink at breakfast.
AHMET KADIOGLU, MANAGING PARTNER, HAYLENE: They have a turnip as well.
QUEST: Turnip?
KADIOGLU: Yes. Turnip water. OK. Then they have Coke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try it. We'll try a few.
QUEST: I'm not trying turnip water.
KADIOGLU: It is good stuff.
QUEST: Do you want to try turnip water?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll try it.
QUEST: Fine. We'll try turnip water.
KADIOGLU: Hot or mild?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was going to be sweet.
QUEST: Like a?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's salty.
QUEST (voice-over): Many people get squeamish when you mention liver. Not me.
KADIOGLU: This is lamb liver. That's what they eat every morning. People started like, 5:00, 5:30 a.m. before they start their work day. And when
they do it, you know, it's a strong flavor. To balance it they will add some cumin in it. They will add some onions in it. And definitely they will
add some salt and pepper inside.
QUEST: This is great. I love this. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you very much.
[16:55:00]
(Voice-over): The burning sun and bazaars. It's all a riot of smells, color and noise. Talking of noise. Listen to them.
A crash and a bang and a bargain.
Look at that.
(Voice-over): I've spotted a statue of a horse that I like the look of.
That is gorgeous.
(Voice-over): Is it real and worth it? Claude A.I. makes sure that these masterful marketeers are not getting the better of me. Or at least I'm
getting what I paid for.
We're in the copper market, but we don't think this is real copper. Probably plated or steel, et cetera. How much do you think it should be
worth? It feels quite heavy. Looks like a cast, brass or bronze horse figurine. If it's genuinely solid brass, $30 to $80. If it's a modern
reproduction, $15 to $35. How much is this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 2,000.
QUEST (voice-over): With a bit of haggling, we settle on a price of $30. Claude has led me well. Now I have to pay. And I seem to be a bit
embarrassed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tom has money.
QUEST: Fine. Fine. My good wishes. That is rather beautiful. I love it.
(Voice-over): From the clamor of the bazaar to a monumental structure. Peace and quiet. The Sanliurfa Museum.
The Paleolithic Age. How many years ago?
NECMI KARUL, LEAD ARCHEOLOGIST, TAS TEPELER PROJECT: One million.
QUEST: One million.
(Voice-over): It is crammed full of beautiful artifacts. All recovered from the archeological digs that we visited earlier.
We don't know what purpose that served.
KARUL: Yes. Each animals has a meaning for them.
QUEST: But do we know what the meaning was?
KARUL: Of course not.
QUEST (voice-over): As we continued our stroll, I pressed him again on why he thought these structures were first built.
KARUL: I believe the first reason was bringing the people together to build the new societies.
QUEST (voice-over): To build a new society, and to witness that is something that is certainly worth traveling for.
After the vibrant stopover in Istanbul, coming to this part of the country and visiting Sanliurfa was a totally different experience, giving rise to
grand questions.
Where did we come from? Where did we come from? What is my purpose? What is my purpose? Where am I going? Where am I going?
I'm not sure I came to any conclusions, but that's not the point. Because you'll want to come here and have those grand thoughts all of your own.
Gobekli Tepe and the zero point of time at the heart of our WORLD OF WONDER.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
