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Quest Means Business
Several French Cities Impose Curfews After Violent Riots; Saudi Arabia Cancels "Davos In The Desert" After Houthi Attacks; DOJ: Arrested OpenAI Engineer Texted With Saudi Royal Family Member; Trump Waives More Russian Sanctions As Zelenskyy Feud Deepens; ReNew CEO: Pace Of Green Transition Is Too Slow; Elizabeth Holmes Documentary Stuns With $15M Debut. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired October 19, 2026 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:12]
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: So the Dow was mostly flat. I would say up and down throughout the day. Not much action though. Investors still
trying to parse whether or not there will be a Fed move, and also that all important A.I. trade. Having said that, the NASDAQ up better than one
percent today. Those are the markets and these are the main events.
Cities around France are under curfew after a weekend of violent demonstrations.
Saudi Arabia is postponing its Future Investment Initiative Conference just days before the big event, that's in response to deadly Houthi attacks.
And Elon Musk's great giveaway: One, just one SpaceX stock to every child in the United States.
Live from New York. It is Monday, October 19th. I am Paula Newton, in for Richard Quest, and this is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
And a very good evening.
Tonight, France is grappling with the aftermath of the worst riots in the country has seen in many years. Several French cities have now imposed
curfews after protests over the education and the cost of living spiraled into a wave of deadly violence over the weekend.
Police fired teargas into crowds and fought running battles with hooded rioters who set fires and broke into shops and government buildings, with
images showing historic buildings ablaze. French officials are now officially imposing localized curfews, including parts of Paris.
President Emmanuel Macron is vowing to hold accountable those who "sought to bring down the republic."
Melissa Bell is on the ground in France reporting on the political response.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Here at Plaza de la Republique, where so much of the rioting and looting took place on Saturday
night and again on Sunday with those fresh clashes that involved rioters and police, the clean-up operation continues, as it does in other French
cities.
A great deal of anger being expressed by the mayors of some of France's biggest cities this Monday, given the police response, or rather the lack
of an adequate police response, and given the extensive damage that the country has seen.
We've been hearing from the French President on Sunday night a great deal of criticism about what President Macron had to say and how few concrete
concessions or solutions he was suggesting.
Politicians from across the political spectrum have really turned on that address to the nation as really not meeting what people were expecting to
hear, concrete decisions about what could be done. We have been hearing also this Monday from the Prime Minister about his fears for the next few
months.
SEBASTIEN LECORNU, FRENCH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): This raises several questions for us. The first being how to protect this democratic
framework, the presidential election. There is no way we will allow violent minorities to impose an agenda of violence and prevent us from holding this
election.
For me, this raises the issue of candidate safety, personal safety. It raises the issue of safety at campaign rallies, regardless of the political
parties.
BELL: That election is just six months away. President Macron will stand down, and it is the void really left by his centrist policies over the last
few years that has attracted a lot of debate and a lot of anger.
The rise also of the extremes, the fact that the far-right leads the polls; the fact that the far-left is making such progress in the polls is
considered sort of fertile ground for a particularly polarized presidential campaign and as authorities fear potentially much more of these kinds of
protests ahead. Already, the Yellow Vests who were here last Saturday are planning a fresh protest next Saturday.
Melissa Bell, CNN, Paris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Saudi Arabia has postponed its flagship investment conference until 2027, following a series of attacks by Iran-backed Houthi militants. The
Future Investment Initiative was scheduled for next week in Riyadh, with top Wall Street executives expected to attend. Organizers decided to cancel
the conference in the wake of a series of Houthi attacks on the Saudi capital, including a deadly missile strike earlier this month on Riyadh's
King Khalid International Airport.
Anna Stewart joins us now from London.
I mean, look, for several days, it has been discussed that no one could understand how they could possibly hold it there. But the problems for
Saudi Arabia go far beyond this one conference in terms of the plans it has for the next decade and beyond.
ANNA STEWART, CNN REPORTER: Events like this are a huge part of how Saudi Arabia plans to diversify away from oil. it has become a huge investment
hub. FII is like the crowning jewel of all of its international events. It is the biggest one, and so until quite recently, FII was maintaining that
it would try and go ahead with this. In fact, WPC the big energy summit that was held last week, despite the fact that the airport was closed and
that is the issue here.
[16:05:10]
I mean, there are some clear problems in terms of just the logistics of getting there quite aside from the risks, the airport has been closed since
October 10th.
So getting all of those delegates from all around the world to Riyadh was going to be a challenge. Also, travel advisories from a number of countries
now say they don't want their citizens to travel to Saudi Arabia unless it is absolutely essential. So, then travel insurance was going to become a
problem for many of the companies sending delegates.
So that is why I think at this point, FII decided it is just not going to work. It was going to be a hollowed out event with not enough of those big
A-List delegates that make this "Davos in the Desert," that make it the star studded event they want it to be.
In an e-mail, they said this decision has been taken to ensure that our milestone 10th edition delivers the full scale quality and impact that our
partners, members, speakers and delegates expect. Now, it is being postponed to next year. They will have to find a date that suits all of the
star investors that they want to be there, you know, invited to this and appearing on stage was going to be Jamie Dimon, Larry Fink, Masayoshi Son,
Christine Lagarde, all the big media outlets, so that's quite a big event to rearrange.
But that will just have to be the plan. So we are waiting to hear when that date will be, Paula, I don't think this has been a huge surprise. You know,
Saudi Arabia had actually already canceled an E.U. Golf Summit that was to be held on the weekend.
So in many ways, we were expecting this news today or imminent.
NEWTON: Yes, as you point out, it is not just the setback of one conference. It really is their plan now that is many months behind schedule
and they have a lot of things on the calendar in the next decade. We will see if there is any resolution in the region.
Anna Stewart for us from London, really appreciate it.
Now, we've been talking about political unrest. Of course, the security concerns, all of this really impacting the markets. And of course, that
weekend of unrest in France has rattled investors in Europe. The CAC 40 fell more than one percent to start the week, but it is the seven-day chart
you want to look at. It shows the sharp drop following the weekend's violence.
The selloff affected more than France. Stocks were also lower in London, Frankfurt, Madrid and Milan, with protests also unfolding this weekend in
Italy and Albania.
Elsa Lignos is global head of FX Strategy at RBC Capital Markets, and she joins us now from London.
Good to see you. No dull moments in politics. You know, no market would ever look at the French protests and say there is an upside here. So, we do
want to concentrate on the downside. How worried are markets about the chaos in France, and is it directly traceable, not just to the violence
that we've seen on the streets, but the fiscal crisis?
ELSA LIGNOS, GLOBAL HEAD, FX STRATEGY AT RBC CAPITAL MARKETS: Yes, so it is really the fiscal question that people are most focused on at the moment. I
think the protests just highlights something that people are well aware of, which is this is a politically very difficult pill for people to swallow in
France.
The fiscal consolidation that is required to get the budget deficit from where it is at the moment, well over five percent of GDP down below three
percent, which is the European rule, is going to be incredibly painful. And the budget that the current government is trying to pass only really goes a
very small part of the way there, and even that is proving very complicated to get through the assembly.
NEWTON: When we look at the competing interests, though, on the fiscal budget in France, there is really no way to fix these numbers. It is quite
harsh. And yet, on the political end of things, it doesn't seem as if there is any political party that is stepping forward right now in this
politically fraught time period, to really speak some hard truth, like it is okay to make choices on your budget, but tough choices do have to be
made.
LIGNOS: That's the problem, and I think if you consider the political backdrop, we are heading into an election in April of 2027. I mean, the RN
is trying to present itself as fiscally responsible. They put forward what they called a shadow budget, but there was a lot in there that was not
fully costed. There was a lot of savings, purported savings that would be hard to materialize in practice.
I mean, the reality is that whoever wins the next election, it is not just about who wins the presidency, but it is what you're going to have in terms
of support within the assembly to get these fiscal choices, these difficult fiscal choices through Parliament.
So from my perspective, when I think about the impact on markets, you know, you're looking at the euro at the moment, trading around 112. It has come
off from the 116 level where we were just a few weeks ago. But positioning is still not that short and the risk premium being carried by markets still
has room to grow in my view.
NEWTON: So listen, I know this is a loaded word, but how worried should we be about contagion in Europe because it is not like the other European
economies are in great shape or aren't dealing with really the same fiscal problems.
[16:10:07]
LIGNOS: Well, the fiscal problems are quite different depending where you look. So, you know, you take a country like Italy, the deficit actually
isn't that bad. The overall debt level is quite high.
But actually Italy has benefited from fairly strong growth in recent years. Spain even stronger growth, though a lot of that has been driven by
immigration and that may well change after the next election.
Germany has delivered a pretty sizable fiscal impulse. It is the one major European economy that still has room to be fiscally expansionary, and there
are other solutions. I mean, the E.U. was extremely effective in terms of boosting spending during the post-COVID years, mainly during the periphery
at the time. And that could be something that European leaders consider kind of NGEU 2.0. So kind of joint borrowing as opposed to putting the
burden on individual states.
But when you look at the absolute numbers, the deficit in France is really a very worrying item at the moment for international investors. And I think
this side of the French election, is unlikely that we are going to see any material long-term plans for fiscal tightening.
NEWTON: Yes, and given that you mentioned kind of how successful Europe was in terms of coming together in that challenging fiscal time during and
beyond COVID, Christine Lagarde was frank speaking to Richard last week at IMF meetings. You know, she was frank, but she was also hopeful. Is that
position credible? And I ask because if you look at France, you know, will there be a Liz Truss moment there that happened in the U.K.? And I know at
that point in time they blamed the bond vigilantes, but sometimes they look pretty sane to me those bond vigilantes.
LIGNOS: Yes, but I think markets play an important role here. And I think part of the challenge for the ECB is they do, of course, have the TPI that
has not yet been used. This is a program that could be used if they felt markets were being irrational. But it doesn't feel like markets are being
irrational. They are effectively calling politicians to account and saying, hey, you know, you've got a very large deficit. Borrowing costs are higher
now than they were four or five years ago, you need to rein it in.
And in order to rein it in, you need to make difficult political choices. And so, unless you see that spread widening and you see markets applying
pressure effectively to politicians, it is going to be very hard to get these political choices through, particularly in the face of the protests
you're seeing at the moment on the streets.
So, you know, you have a fair point. Bond vigilantes are doing the job in showing to politicians what is fiscally unsustainable in the long term, and
because ultimately, all governments need to find a market for their debt, they need to respect the willingness of investors to lend to them or not at
current projections.
NEWTON: Yes, and we will see how they handle those very distinct challenges in the weeks and months to come. Grateful for your insights. Really
appreciate it.
Now, when we return, new details in the case against a former OpenAI engineer, the Saudi national faced a detention hearing in San Francisco.
We've learned a lot about this case. You don't want to miss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:15:49]
NEWTON: New details in the OpenAI espionage case. A federal judge in San Francisco has reportedly ordered Abdulrahman Alfozan to be held without
bail after the Saudi Consulate of Los Angeles offered to pay his bail.
Hadas Gold picks up the story from there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HADAS GOLD, CNN A.I. CORRESPONDENT: Paula, the judge in this case, just apparently said in court that he found it suspicious that the Saudi
Consulate was willing to pay bail for Abdulrahman Alfozan, saying that they would not issue him travel documents to be able to leave the country. This
is something the Department of Justice says that they are afraid that Alfozan is a flight risk, and that he could potentially leave if he was let
out of prison. They want him to stay in detention pending trial. This is all just happened in court, just in the last hour or so.
Now, according to a new file from the Department of Justice, they also say that Alfozan was in regular touch with an unidentified member of the Saudi
Royal family for the last year-and-a-half, two years or so, saying that they regularly talked over text message and saying that at one point, the
unidentified member of the Royal family told him, "Saudi needs you more than the United States," to which Alfozan reportedly said "100."
They also say that a Saudi military official paid for Alfozan's wife and their child to leave the United States and fly to Saudi Arabia after
Alfozan's arrest. Now, keep in mind that prosecutors had already alleged that Alfozan had a flight pre-booked for October 12th to fly to Saudi
Arabia, but he obviously never made that flight because he was arrested beforehand for allegedly planting this listening device in the OpenAI
executive conference room, in their offices in San Francisco.
Now, the Department of Justice says that he is a flight risk. They are trying to convince the judge that he needs to stay in detention, saying
that even if he gets let out, they are worried that he will somehow be able to get the travel documents needed to travel abroad, and they say this in
their filing. They say, "... whether the defendant wanted to record OpenAI meetings to enrich himself by enhancing his own business prospects or to
provide aid to a foreign government or both, his conduct is criminal and it presents a danger to innovation in Silicon Valley and a concern for the
national security of the United States."
Now, Alfozan's attorneys have called the detention inappropriate. They filed dozens of letters of support from his friends and associates, saying
that he will remain in the country and attend every court hearing, and they say that they will try to fight this narrative that they say is being
presented about their client.
We have repeatedly asked the Saudi Embassy in Washington for comment on Alfozan's case, but we have not yet heard back from them -- Paula.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: Our thanks to Hadas for that reporting.
Now, the world's wealthiest man says he will give one SpaceX share to every child in America. Elon Musk laid out his plans in the wee hours on social
media. He posted that the giveaway will be the first of many. No details, though, about who is eligible or how shares will be distributed.
Musk's announcement -- this is key here -- follows plans by Anthropic to give five percent of its shares to a new public benefit fund. Anthropic
says the nonprofit fund will make donations for the benefit of humanity.
Musk responded to that news by saying he recommends giving the shares directly to the public. The leaders of both companies have warned about the
potential disruption caused by A.I. and are facing backlash over its safety.
CNN's Clare Duffy joins me now.
I hope you weren't up as the social postings were going on. You followed up later on. I mean, look, I am wondering if even if these are good ideas,
because, you know, Senator Bernie Sanders here in the United States says, just pay your taxes. Saying, thanks, folks!
You know, how would it work? It sounds kind of complicated on both ends.
CLARE DUFFY, CNN BUSINESS WRITER: Yes. Paula, it is really interesting. I mean, first of all, to see these leaders in this big industry debating how
best to give away money and the fact that this is coming amid this popular backlash -- populist, I should say, backlash to artificial intelligence,
where you've got people really concerned about what A.I. is going to mean for the future, for jobs; concerns, that this industry is really
concentrating their wealth and potentially leaving the public to deal with the consequences of this technology.
And there have been proposals from Bernie Sanders and others about new tax structures or other regulation that could create a new means of
distributing wealth from this very powerful industry, and so it looks like these leaders, these companies are, at least in some cases, trying to take
matters into their own hands.
[16:20:15]
This proposal from Anthropic to move at least five percent of its shares into a public benefit fund, which would then, as you said, donate to causes
for the public good. They specifically called out the ability to use this money to help people adjust to job losses potentially caused by artificial
intelligence. That, of course, is coming ahead of Anthropic's proposed IPO, which could be in the $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion valuation range.
But at the same time, that is expected, Anthropic's filing for its IPO is expected to include warnings about existential risk to humanity from
artificial intelligence. So I do think this is potentially a way to try to manage the public's sort of response to the massive amount of money that
Anthropic is expected to raise with that IPO, and then you've got Elon Musk saying, look, I think that we should just give money directly to the public
making this promise to distribute one share of SpaceX to every American child. That would be a giveaway worth about $10.7 billion at SpaceX's
current share price.
But as you said, Paula, there is not really a lot of clarity about how exactly he plans to go about this. We have seen other tech billionaires
promising other donations or shares through President Trump's new Trump Accounts project that includes SpaceX's President Gwynne Shotwell, who has
promised to provide a number of SpaceX shares to American children, specifically in Texas, around where SpaceX is headquartered.
So, you know, interesting that these leaders are debating how to distribute some of this wealth, although I will say this is still a fraction of the
wealth that these companies have, but trying to distribute that to the American public in this moment when they are facing really serious
questions about what this technology is going to mean.
Most recently, that is manifesting in this backlash to data centers that could really slow down these companies if we do see new leaders elected
through these midterm elections that pull back on data center development - - Paula.
NEWTON: Yes, and we shall see if any of these moves survive the actual original postings. You know, Anthropic is likely to go public quite soon.
Clare Duffy for us, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
DUFFY: Thank you.
NEWTON: Now "You Can See Everything" scored the biggest documentary opening in decades. Up next, why the disgraced Theranos founder, her story, it is
raking in millions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[16:25:39]
NEWTON: U.S. President Donald Trump says he would meet with his Russian and Chinese counterparts to discuss an end to the war in Ukraine. The Kremlin
has suggested Vladimir Putin could meet them on the sidelines of the APEC Summit next month.
Last hour, Mr. Trump said no matter who is at the table and let's be clear, it would exclude Ukraine, he just wants to stop the war. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Zelenskyy is not helping matters much. I think he doesn't want to stop it. But I want to
see people not die. They are losing probably on average, 25,000 to 35,000 soldiers every single month. All I want to do, I don't care. I want to get
the war stopped.
Anything I can do to end the war, whether somebody is there or not. Whatever I can do to end the war.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: Now, the potential peace talks come just one day after one of Kyiv's largest drone attacks this year. The target was a Russian oil
terminal, and that was in defiance of President Trump's calls to halt attacks on energy facilities.
John Herbst is a former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine. He is now Senior Director of the Atlantic Council's Eurasia Center, and it is good to have
you on the program, especially as just in the last couple of hours, we had Donald Trump basically admit to the fact that, sure, I am going to sit down
with China and Russia without Ukraine. Do you believe, in your estimation, that the Trump administration is pushing Ukraine to surrender the way
President Zelenskyy claims.
JOHN HERBST, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Well, I think that I am not sure Zelenskyy has said it as baldly as you just did. He has expressed
concern that the United States is reducing its support to Ukraine as Moscow continues its aggression without cessation. It is not that Zelenskyy is
defying trump, Putin has defied Trump more than Zelenskyy because Putin spoke about a ceasefire on energy attacks Sunday of last week, Zelenskyy
said if Russia does it, I will do it.
Putin immediately violated that by attacking Ukrainian energy. He did that for three days before Ukraine responded. So, for some reason, President
Trump is ignoring Putin's blatant rejection of the energy ceasefire proposal and focusing on Zelenskyy's response to Putin's breaking, not
agreeing to that proposal.
NEWTON: I have to ask you, Ambassador, there is bipartisan support for Ukraine, and there are a lot of different issues floating around Washington
right now. Is there anything that can happen here to try and convince the Trump administration to not go down this road, or is there any pressure
that Europe can apply at this point?
HERBST: We have seen this movie before. President Trump got very annoyed with President Zelenskyy in The White House in late February, 28th of last
year, because Zelenskyy made two points, which happened to be true. He just made it at great length.
One that Putin cannot be trusted; and two, that Ukraine needs security guarantees if it is going to make peace where it is allowing Russia to
remain on Ukrainian territory and Trump took umbrage with the fact that Zelenskyy said that one or two too many times, and then the very hostile
reaction from the Trump administration disappeared after a week or two.
It is possible this will happen again now, but we don't know. The point is that Trump said he would come into office, seek a compromise peace based
upon the current lines between the two armies, Zelenskyy has accepted more than half a dozen such proposals. Putin has rejected everyone, yet for some
reason, Trump is flying off the handle against Zelenskyy.
That is not good for American national interests, and it is not going to bring peace. The only way you get peace is if Putin is willing to
compromise, and he will only do that if we put pressure on them, which we are not doing right now.
NEWTON: And in terms of pressure, I mean, sitting down with China and Russia, I mean, so many places have investigated this already, but I do
turn to the analysis from the Institute for the Study of War that says both Russia and China have been helping Iran, not just in order to rebuild their
military capability, but to also target U.S. bases. Isn't the pressure in the wrong direction here? As you as an experienced diplomat, if you were
sitting at the table here?
HERBST: Well, I agree that a meeting between Trump, Xi and Putin will not advance Trump's stated goal of achieving a durable peace, a stable peace
which leaves Ukraine sovereign and secure one iota because Putin wants to conquer much of Ukraine, and China wants to make sure Putin does not lose
this war.
So geopolitical wisdom starts when leaders in the West, the United States and among our allies recognize that China and Russia are our adversaries.
And as you point out, they're helping Iran -- well, China is sending parts for drones to kill American soldiers in the Middle East. Russia is
providing intelligence, which enables Iran to more lethally target American soldiers in the Middle East, and we should recognize that we should be
supporting Ukraine, which is a victim of aggression by Russia, which considers us to be its principal adversary or enemy.
[16:31:00]
NEWTON: But Ambassador, it doesn't matter who seems to say it or how. The Trump administration is going in a different direction. And to that end,
the sanctions relief that Donald Trump has now provided to Russia, it essentially restores its financial transactions that fund its war machine.
How do you think that will play out in the coming months for Russia?
HERBST: Well, this is a huge gift to the Kremlin, when again, they have not taken one step towards accepting any Trump proposal for peace. But it's
also, it sends a very bad signal to not just Ukraine, which is under lethal attack, but to our allies, whether in Europe or East Asia.
And you know, President Trump said something very peculiar on Truth Social yesterday. He said, you know, Russia is not really helping Iran. And if it
is, it's just a little bit, and I want to make sure Russia does not provide more help to Iran. That's not a good look.
You know, Biden was intimidated by Putin's nuclear threats from providing Ukrainian arms. Well, it seems like President Trump is also a little bit
fearful about Russia might do to us, so, he seems reluctant to push Russia on the aid it's providing, which is making more dangerous for our soldiers
in the Middle East.
That's not a good look, and it's not consistent with Trump's stated goal of peace through strength and achieving a stable end to Moscow's war on
Ukraine.
I hope we will see a change in tactics, because the tactics we're pursuing right now are not going to help us achieve our own goals. Trump's own
goals.
NEWTON: Yes, I'm not -- yes, I'm not sure what's going to bring about that change in tactics, because as I said, nothing Europe has been able to say,
or even members of Congress, senators, Congresspeople, whoever, been able to say has changed the minds of the Trump administration.
We will leave it there for now, Ambassador. Thanks so much. Appreciate.
HERBST: My pleasure. Thank you.
NEWTON: Now, the head of one of the world's largest renewable energy companies says the green transition will require everyone to work together.
Richard Quest sat down with ReNew CEO Sumant Sinha. That was last week in Bangkok. Sinha said both the public and private sectors need to work
together to make clean energy the future.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUMANT SINHA, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, RENEW: I think, generally speaking, by and large, we are moving in the right direction. To me, it's the pace
that is the problem. The pace is awfully slow, unfortunately.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Who do you blame for that?
SINHA: I don't blame anybody particularly. I think --
QUEST: Oh, there must be somebody behind it.
SINHA: No, no, no.
QUEST: And no, no. The reason I say that is --
SINHA: Yes.
QUEST: The reason I say that because the danger in renewables is chicken and egg. Well, we would do it if, if only the policies were there from
government. Government says, oh, but if only private sector was willing to private sector. Oh, but if only taxes -- so, it becomes a downward spiral
instead of the virtuous (INAUDIBLE).
(CROSSTALK)
SINHA: I think -- I think, Richard, the reality of the situation here is that this is a massive problem. This is a rewiring, literally, of the
world's entire energy system. That is not a single person's job. This requires an all about -- all of the above mentality.
It requires governments working very, very closely with the private sector. This cannot be done either by the government or the private sector in
isolation. It also requires civil society. It requires the media. Everybody needs to come together to solve this problem.
QUEST: The difficulty with that is when it requires everybody, it requires nobody. Because you see, I come back to your point a second ago. We are not
moving fast enough, and I would suggest it's because of that the onus is everywhere.
SINHA: Yes. I agree, but there are some things that do require everybody to come along. Right?
QUEST: Right.
SINHA: And therefore, it does require an acceptance by everybody that there is a problem that we need to address. I think, that acceptability, by and
large, is there. The question really is how to do it, and different people have different views on how to do it.
But the -- but the -- I think, the good news is that technology is moving rapidly.
[16:35:01]
And ultimately, everybody gets behind technology because technology drives affordability, and therefore, drives mass adoption.
And that mass adoption eventually will happen. And it will happen because consumers start making choices in a certain direction. That is going to be
cleaner.
QUEST: What has to happen to break that logjam, so we make better progress?
SINHA: I think multiple things need to happen. Number one, we need better multilateral cooperation, which unfortunately is not there right now. So,
that's one.
I know it's something that is unlikely to happen for some time, but that is absolutely essential, especially if we are to deal with the non-electricity
part of the energy systems, which are the hard-to-abate sectors, which is things like shipping and aviation and transportation and cement, and steel.
For that, we need coordinated action. That coordination requires cooperation across countries, because no single company is going to do it
by itself. That's the first thing that we require.
The second thing that we require is we need to adopt everything at massive scale. That requires us to build grids much, much, much faster, and a focus
on building the grids is something that is there in a spotty way. That is something that we really need to expand much, much more -- much more.
And the third thing, which is not well accepted is that we need to start diversifying supply chains. Today, I think our entire clean tech supply
chain is really dependent on one country.
QUEST: But all of that is necessary. But what is necessary for all of that to happen?
SINHA: As I said -- good question. So, as I said, one is we need multilateral cooperation.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: No, no, no.
SINHA: Yes. Yes.
QUEST: To get -- to get the multilateral cooperation.
SINHA: Yes.
QUEST: To get the various things that you have just talked about, what needs to happen? I'm going to give you a potential answer: leadership.
SINHA: That, of course, we require.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Yes, but that's the problem.
SINHA: That is -- that is -- yes, that is the question -- yes.
QUEST: But I'm suggesting to you. I'm suggesting to you that is the problem. That it's so fragmented and it's so difficult that nobody -- one
person.
SINHA: I agree, Richard. But that is a sign of our times right now, and we cannot wish it away. I think, despite that, we have to find solutions that
take us forward.
Now, to me, those solutions are going to come from the fact that adopting clean technologies will become much more affordable as we go forward, and
that affordability and that economic rationale behind it will have to eventually become the underpinning, so that even if leadership and
multilateral cooperation falls short, it is affordability, its economic sense that drives this whole transition forward.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWTON: OK. Hollywood saw its biggest documentary opening in decades over the weekend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have never been suspicious that she's ever lied to you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ever.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I still have this weird feeling that there is some things that I'm not seeing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's because I don't have anything to hide.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what you are feeling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you don't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NEWTON: OK. "You Can See Everything", sold out in theaters across the United States, raking in more than $15 million. The documentary follows
disgraced Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes in the weeks before she was imprisoned for fraud.
The filmmakers say they worked on the project in secret for years.
Erin Griffith is a tech reporter for the New York Times, and she joins us now.
OK, listen, you have seen the movie. It is gripping by many accounts. I can't recall the last time I saw like 99 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. So,
why is this? What is it about this documentary and this story? Because we have already heard so much about Elizabeth Holmes.
ERIN GRIFFITH, TECH REPORTER, THE NEW YORK TIMES: It's true, and people were fascinated with her story. You know, they have been basically almost
from the time when she -- when she first emerged in the media, I mean, she was on the cover of so many magazines. You know 10 years ago, and when we
are thinking back, you know, in part, because it was so exciting to see a female founder of, you know, a billion-dollar tech company. They were --
they were pretty rare back then.
And then, when her fraud was revealed, obviously, and moved into a trial, that was super high profile as well. And throughout all of that, she
basically went silent. Like there -- she wasn't giving interviews. There was no real like -- no knowledge or understanding of what was going on in
her head.
Only that she had pled not guilty, and then, she testified in her trial, which was kind of the first time that we had heard her speak and tell her
side of the story for years, but that was a very kind of narrow sliver of her story.
So, I think part of it is like the fascination with Elizabeth Holmes and her rise and fall.
[16:40:02]
Getting an intimate look inside that for the first time is really exciting to people.
And then, the fact that it's being done by a comedian, Nathan Fielder, and it's, you know, three hours long, and it kind of takes us on a journey. I
think, all of that combined has added up to a lot of excitement and interest.
And then, I guess one last thing that I would add is that there is just in general a fascination with true crime stories, and this is one of the more
high-profile ones of a generation.
NEWTON: In terms of a genre, though, it is kind of mind-bending the way he's handled all of this. I am wondering, since you covered the trial wall
to wall, I mean, you have had some really bad meals and bad snacks, I'm sure, waiting outside the courtroom for all of this to go on.
So, as someone who knows so much about this, what did you find that the documentary got right and wrong about the knowledge that you actually have
about her conviction?
GRIFFITH: Well, I will say I was a little nervous going into it because I was like, all right, we have already established what's true and what's not
true in the Theranos story in the court of law. So, we have all these facts. We have voluminous, you know, emails, text messages, documents.
We have gone through all of it and sort of, it's been adjudicated. Right? And she is in prison and has -- was found guilty of fraud. So, what can a
comedian coming in, you know, what can he offer us? But --
And he does actually in the very beginning of the film, and it's not a spoiler, I think, to say this. You know, he says I'm insecure about why you
chose me to tell this story and not someone who might understand the science.
And so, I was a little bit, you know, I was thinking, is this going to be a redemption story? Is this going to be a more human look at her? And that is
really what it is. But I would say it's not a redemption story. It's just kind of a journey, really, into the world of is this person a liar or not?
And again, in the court of law, it was kind of decided that she is. There was a lot of evidence that came up that showed that she deceived investors
and that they were entitled to, you know, justice for that because she was convicted of wire fraud.
But the movie doesn't really get into the science, I would say. It kind of touches on it lightly, but it really dives more into is this person a liar?
And if you are a liar, like how do you kind of spread your lies, or how do you believe your own -- your own version of the truth?
And you kind of get like taken into her circle and her kind of like reality in a way, and so, that journey was super compelling. Even as someone who I
feel like I know as much as there is to know about the case, having been in the courtroom for four months and listening to all the testimony, I still -
- I still came away with a kind of a whole new view of her.
NEWTON: Yes! Wow, Erin, that gives our viewers a lot to think about in terms of whether they want to spend some time, because it is three hours.
We have to leave it there for now. I will say I have not --
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFITH: It is three hours.
NEWTON: It was three hours long. So, there is got to be a bathroom back in there somewhere. But we will continue to follow the story because it
certainly made its mark.
Appreciate your time, Erin. Thanks so much.
And appreciate you being with us. That was QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. I'm Paula Newton.
Up next, Richard Quest heads to Naples. The lucky guy for "THE WORLD OF WONDER".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[16:46:39]
QUEST (voice over): It's a Sunday morning, and it seems the world and his wife is already out and about. Naples is brimming with energy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go, go, go!
QUEST (voice over): Here, everything fizzes.
QUEST: That was a little unexpected.
QUEST: Naples is what you've heard about this place. Loud, chaotic, and a great deal of fun.
ENZO DI MURO, GUIDE, NAPLES: Because I love Napoli, my town is so --
QUEST (voice over): Enzo Di Muro is my guide. He was born and raised here. And before we have even properly begun, a problem, what do we call this
place?
DI MURO: Napoli.
QUEST: So, no. It is Naples
DMURO: It's Naples, but it is Napoli.
QUEST: What are we going to call it? All those in favor of Naples? Two?
QUEST (voice over): That's Jimbo, my camera man.
All those in favor of Napoli. Napoli.
DI MURO: Buongiorno. Buongiorno.
QUEST: Good morning. Good morning. Good morning.
DI MURO: She speaks only Neapolitan.
QUEST: I should be speaking Italian.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Neapolitan dialect.
DI MURO: So, Neapolitan is a dialect.
QUEST: Yes.
DI MURO: But it's beautiful.
QUEST: Which is better.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me, Napolitano.
QUEST: I think where we have just got a taste of how marvelous it is.
DI MURO: We are heading to the old town where we walked through streets built, designed 2,500 years ago.
QUEST (voice over): Naples sits in the shadow of Mount Vesuvius in Italy's Campania region.
All the usual suspects have ruled here. There were the Greeks in the eighth century BCE, and then, the Romans moved in.
After that, it was its own kingdom for centuries.
The remnants of that ancient past hidden in plain sight today.
DI MURO: So, this is the place where we are. OK?
This is the church behind you. Look at the -- straight streets split the town.
(CROSSTALK)
QUEST: Oh, I see. Yes. Oh yes, look at that.
DI MURO: This is a street that's still here, designed 2000 years ago.
QUEST (voice over): It's called Spaccanopoli, which translates to split Naples.
Today, it remains the narrow backbone through historic Naples.
These red-looking pepper things are everywhere, and as to their meaning.
QUEST: Don't ask. Don't ask.
QUEST (voice over): So, many trinkets and knickknacks. Just leave me here all day, and I will be happy.
QUEST: Look at all these interesting things.
JIMBO, CAMERAMAN: Where are you?
QUEST: I do love these.
JIMBO: Where is he?
QUEST: All these little things, but there is just a little bit of movement in them. Now, these are presepio, little tableau of various scenes,
religious originally, now all kinds of stuff.
QUEST: I got myself a spoon. I've got hundreds of them. How much?
QUEST (voice over): It's time for food and the Holy Grail, of course, pizza.
[16:50:04]
It said pizza was invented here, and Naples has a few pizza provisions on offer. There is the city's namesake, the Neapolitan, the Portafoglio, or
folded, and pizza fritta.
DI MURO: Would you like to taste the fried pizza?
QUEST: James?
JIMBO: Yes, let's give it a go.
QUEST: Are we all OK with everything on it?
JIMBO: Hey, no pineapple.
QUEST: Sorry?
What's that?
JIMBO: Hey, no pineapple.
QUEST (voice over): But I like pineapple. Apparently, sacrilegious.
QUEST: Give me the classic.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) completa.
QUEST: Completa. All right. Let's have a look. We are going to watch him make it.
QUEST (voice over): Pizza is part of the identity here in Naples, but fried pizza is a relative newcomer. A creative solution post-World War II, when
Neapolitan pizza ovens were damaged by bombings.
QUEST: Oh, my goodness!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buon appetite.
QUEST: Thank you.
QUEST (voice over): That working class staple born out of necessity.
QUEST: Good viral. Hot cuisine, perhaps not delicious, definitely.
There is an unabashed realness about Naples that's easy to like and that's worth exploring further.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: We are going out onto the water. Oh, look at that beautiful view! Where is Bessone? Where is Bessone?
QUEST (voice over): It is a boat ride with views worthy for our mission. We have already established food is almost a religion, because lunch today is
at a temple to nutrition.
Well, that and the views.
QUEST: Some of the most beautiful places on the Italian coast.
QUEST (voice over): And we have arrived right out of central casting for picture-perfect fishing villages.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nerano! Nerano! (INAUDIBLE). Best place in the world. The best! The best!
QUEST: Are you sure?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
QUEST (voice over): Nerano sits on Italy's famous Amalfi Coast. We are only 15 kilometers from Sorrento.
JIMBO: How are you feeling, pal?
QUEST: Does that answer your question?
A little bit of sea (INAUDIBLE). James. Let me just get my sea legs. We are land legs again.
QUEST (voice over): For decades, Nerano was a gem known only to locals. Now, it's as hot as can be, and partly because of this restaurant, and this
particular dish.
QUEST: This is the pasta. This is the spaghetti. Sorry.
QUEST (voice over): The family-run Maria Grazia invented the Spaghetti alla Nerano.
QUEST: Oh. oh, that's delicious. That is really good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, yes.
QUEST: You just --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know -- I know.
QUEST (voice over): Modest. It's a posh way of saying a pasta dish with fried zucchini.
[16:55:02]
It all sounds simple until you make it the Grazia family way.
QUEST: Do you ever get tired making it?
EMANUEL ANDREONE, MARIA GRAZIA RESTAURANT: Never, never.
QUEST: You never want to change it. You never want to make it different?
ANDREONE: No. Sometimes, no, no, no, because my sister and my family kill me if I change this plate.
Emanuel Andreone's grandmother first created this Nerano traditional dish, 74 years ago.
QUEST: If he says it's ready, it's ready.
QUEST (voice over): As for the exact recipe, it remains a family secret.
QUEST: OK, and right off.
QUEST (voice over): OK, we know the spaghetti boils for 12 minutes, and whilst that takes place, everything else is put in place.
QUEST: What's the motion that he's doing with the spoons?
QUEST (voice over): Only family members can perform this step.
QUEST: It's a forward and back, forward and back, forward and back.
QUEST (voice over): It is the stirring technique and the amount of cheese going in, that's part of the secret.
ANDREONE: (INAUDIBLE) this pasta or tarazza (PH)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tarazza (PH).
QUEST: Forward and back, forward and back. All right!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are ready.
QUEST: You are ready.
I'm exhausted. This is amazing. This is absolute. This is --
QUEST (voice over): It looks too good to eat. Never.
ANDREONE: Enjoy our specialty, Richard.
QUEST: Thank you, enjoy.
ANDREONE: Thank you so much.
QUEST: Look at that view.
Look at this. The spaghetti is thicker and richer and deeper, extraordinary.
QUEST (voice over): While I'm here, our burning culinary question for my hosts:
QUEST: Can I have --
ROSA ANDREONE, MARIA GRAZIA RESTAURANT: Yes.
QUEST: Pineapple on my pizza?
R. ANDREONE: No (INAUDIBLE). Sorry. No, dear. No.
QUEST (voice over): The boat ride back to Naples, and a short diversion a must. I've always wanted to visit Capri.
QUEST: So, these are the famous rocks of Capri, one of the most exclusive, wonderful holiday resorts in the world, certainly in Italy.
QUEST (voice over): The wealth on display in the form of yachts around the island is staggering, and those rocks themselves-something else.
QUEST: Look at that. These are the Faraglioni (PH). What that means, I have no idea, but it sounds good. I tell you who, though, I tell you who can
tell me something about it. Hang on a second.
QUEST (voice over): ChatGPT can usually help.
QUEST: There are three principal Faraglioni, Stella, which is the one attached to Capri. Mezzo, which you are photographing, and Scopolo. The
rocks are enormous. They rise roughly a hundred meters above the sea. There we go.
QUEST (voice over): This is living on a grand, luxurious scale. I can enjoy it, even if I'm just a voyeur for the day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
