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New Book Bannon Says trump Jr. Will Crack Like An Egg In Russia Probe, Special Counsel Probe Is All About Money Laundering, Trump Is Horrified By Election Victory; Trump, Bannon Has Lost His Mind, has Nothing To Do With White House Aired 11-Midnight ET
Aired January 03, 2018 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[23:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for watching.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN SPECIAL REPORT: This is Trump one year later, a CNN special report. Tonight explosive revelations about the President and his inner circle and his former chief strategist Steve Bannon turning on the first family. I'm Jim Sciutto.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN NEWSROOM SHOW HOST: And I'm Pamela Brown. This hour we are breaking down all the sunny details on a new book on the Trump White House that is triggered a bitter war between the President and a former close ally Steve Bannon. Among the bomb shells tonight, Bannon says the infamous Trump tower Russia meeting held with the promise of dirt on Hillary Clinton was, quote, unpatriotic and even treasonous. According to published excerpts of the book, Bannon also predicted that Donald Trump Jr. will crack like an egg under the scrutiny of the Russia investigation and he alleges that the Special Counsel probe was all about money laundering.
The President firing back in a blistering statement saying Bannon has lost his mind and has nothing to do with the White House, even though he was one of the most powerful advisers at one time. Also infuriating the President tonight, that new book is filled with sensational accounts about him and his family that includes claims that Mr. Trump was hoping to lose the election and was horrified when he won and members of his inner circle believe he was not qualified for the job. Jim.
SCIUTTO: Pamela thanks very much and our analyst our here tonight. First let's make clear why this book and why Steve Bannon's words matter. From the very beginning of the Russia investigation, Donald Trump has dismissed it as completely unfounded. He has called it and we're quoting here, terrible, sad, a hoax, a total scam, a tax-payer funded charade. The greatest witch hunt in U.S. political history and a phony Democratic excuse for losing the election. In doing so, he is also accused a long list of people and institutions of bias in pursuing the investigation including but not limited to the deep state leaking James Comey, FBI in tatters, and of course the fake news media.
His blunt message is that this whole investigation is the work of his perceived enemies. Today, however, Trump's bubble has been burst by an ally, in fact, the man who arguably did more than anyone to help him win the White House, and that is Steve Bannon. In Michael Wolf's book, Bannon makes clear that he believes the Russian investigation is very real and very warranted. He calls Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner quote treasonous for that 2016 Trump tower meeting with Russians. And he believes the special counsel is now focusing on the possibility of money laundering by the Trump organization.
Not a hoax, not a witch hunt, not fake news says Bannon, in fact, very much the contrary. And that is very real news. We're joined tonight by our panel and I want to start with you Joshua Green. The author of the book devil's bargain which dives into the inside story of this relationship between Trump and Bannon. Knowing how close that relationship is, and really frankly the success that this relationship bore with winning the White House, did you ever imagine it would split the way we're seeing it?
JOSHUA GREEN, AUTHOR DEVIL'S BARGAIN: I always figured at some point they were heading for an ugly breakup because of the egos involved, but I never could have imagined it would be as dramatic as the statement from the President said today. The cease and decease letter to Steve Bannon telling him to stop talking in a clear animosity you saw from the podium at the White House today and practically everybody still in the west wing. This was always going to end an ugly fashion, but I couldn't imagine it would shake out like it has today.
SCIUTTO: Laura Coates, long legal background here. Bannon throws out the word treasonous for that Trump Tower meeting and yet again let's remind our viewers that is not coming from Democrats, it's coming from a man who was in fact the President's right hand man here. Legally is that a fair way to characterize what went on in that meeting?
LAURA COATES, CNN INTERNATIONAL LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the problem is we have these colloquial terms that say treason in the jargon sense is one thing. It means that somebody is going something in a way that is contrary to the interest of another person. However, legally speaking it is a different connotation. So perhaps it's more of a colloquial based on as opposed to one that is hinged on a legal actual statute. But the connotation is still the same in that the response of somebody who was in the inner circle is saying that you should have reported this conduct to the FBI. I would know that this conduct according to Fusion GPS dossier op-ed last night is conduct that Christopher Steele did report to the FBI. And so you have someone saying that it's contrary to their own interests and also the United States. I think that has much more of an impact even a legal connotation.
SCIUTTO: Beyond that Trump tower meeting, Steve Bannon mentioned money laundering as well. Michael, you worked with Robert Mueller, you know how he runs investigations. Based on what you've seen, does that strike you as a track that he is pursuing?
[23:05:12] MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it's a track that we've already seen an indictment in. Manafort was indicted for money laundering. We know that they have sought and obtained information from the financial crimes enforcement network. That is the money laundering brain trust. Congress has gotten it, Mueller has gotten it. We now that Mueller is looking at the real estate deals of the Trump organization. Trump decided to draw a red line in "The New York Times" interview. Mueller doesn't seem to respect it in any way, shape, or form, nor should he because it provides context, motive, opportunity, all sorts of things the prosecutors look at.
SCIUTTO: These are two reporting lines that a number of us who have been working this story is have been looking and asking questions about, the money laundering line and the Trump tower meeting. And here have you Steve Bannon raising both of those as substantial lines of inquiry.
BROWN: Bannon says he hasn't been interviewed by Mueller so it raises the question especially in left these quotes where he is saying money laundering there could be something there if they want to talk to you. But Jack Kingston, I want to bring new on this to get your reaction to these stunning revelations and what we know so far, what is in this book. Most, in my opinion, some of the most shocking quotes came from Steve Bannon. As we know he is had a contentious relationship with some in the White House. Do you think -- how much weight should his analysis carry given his personal animosities?
JACK KINGSTON, FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I don't think his statements can carry much weight at all. I think he is a scorned employee. I think he is coming off an embarrassing loss many Alabama. He didn't have the platform he thought he was going to walk out into. I think he had a rough start from the beginning. Once they won when the White House chief of staff position went to Reince Priebus I think he was kind of the odd man out, never quite found traction in terms of being an employee in the administration. And you know, when -- once you're elected, you don't have the freedom that you had in a campaign. You have to be careful. You always are speaking for the President. I think he had a hard time making that transition and I just don't see him as being a big hammer, a big influence.
BROWN: Do you think he was making all of this up, all of these quotes that we read today? Do you think it's all made up or is there any truth to it?
KINGSTON: I think he is a scorned employee frankly running his mouth. You know, I think he is almost politically shadow box, if you will, he is just flailing around that they are trying to, you know coming up with treason. Does Robert Mueller really need Steve Bannon to come out and pronounce something that is treasonous or to start pursuing money? All of this stuff would be old news. And frankly if it was, the big question would be why didn't you do anything about it? If you felt that way when you came on board in August.
BROWN: Right.
KINGSTON: Why didn't do you anything about it.
COATES: Let's be honest for a second because the idea of him being a scorned employee may have some weight if the timing of these statements were made at the embarrassing loss of Doug Jones or after a point in time when he was a scorned employee. However the interviews took place while he was employed and not scorned at that particular point in time. And that makes a huge difference. You're talking about credibility assessments here. If it's about credibility assessments then the timing of the actual statement makes sense and it really undercuts the argument. KINGSTON: He was squeezed out of the White House. There were 97
leaks just on the house investigation. He was always a suspected leaker. And so I just don't think many people in the White House say it's heartbreaking to see what he is doing. It's disappointment but is he kind of a pugnacious guy and you don't expect him to good out the door quietly.
SCIUTTO: To be fair. More than one leaker in the White House probably.
COATES: Yes.
SCIUTTO: But let's let Steve Bannon speak for himself, because moments ago Steve Bannon in his first comments after President Trump blasted him today over the book comments, he called the President and I'm quoting now, a great man and responding to a caller on the Breitbart news talk tonight radio show Bannon said I'm quoting again, you know I support him day in and day out adding you don't have to worry about that. So you have a Steve Bannon there and I actually listened to this program earlier before the broadcast for some time there and he was not taking shots at the President. He was saying some very complementary things to callers about the President, what he was doing in Washington.
KINGSTON: Well, he wasn't, but I think that also undermines his credibility. If he is making big statements about this is truly treasonous, why does he now want to start kissing up to the White House? This might be political two step in its finest. If you think sometimes this White House gets off the page with people, if you think about Jeff Flake or Sessions and maybe from time to time Tillerson and then there's a public making up session, that could happen, I don't know.
BROWN: But it does raise the question how this author was able to get. Kind of access so early on in the administration and get all these on the record quotes from so many of the now former employees and current employees.
[23:10:03] SCIUTTO: That is the thing. If you look at the Michael Wolf piece which included the Steve Bannon quotes, it's not just Steve Bannon who is making these critical comments, it's a whole host of folks who the President would call his friends, Tom Barrack, Katy Walsh who was for a time the deputy chief of staff. Dismissing Trump's leadership, I mean as childish, I'm just repeating words here, calling him stupid, you have Rupert Murdoch quoted as calling him an idiot, Joshua, you spent a lot of time covering this presidency. Have you heard that kind of criticism from people close to the President?
GREEN: Absolutely. I think all reporters here, you don't tend to hear it on the record as it's presented in wolf's book. But wolf was a fairly regular fixture in the west wing in the White House. There was no secret that he was writing this book and talking to senior advisers not just Bannon, all of them. Many of are quoted in the excerpts, I expect they'll be quoted in the book as well. But they were cooperating with this book, because they thought that Wolf was going to offer a positive portrayal of Trump in his presidency. And at the time he began hanging out with the Trump people, it was during the transition. They all thought he was there to document this great victory and inscribe their place in history. Instead, he had his note book open and apparently listened while a lot of them stabbed each other in the back and wrote a book about it.
BROWN: Before I get to the President's response, but do you think that is naive that they thought he was going to write a book about the transition?
KINGSTON: It reminds me of a great General crystal who let the rolling stones reporter be embedded with them and he won their confidence and then he -- you know, ultimately --
SCIUTTO: But, Jack, interesting you bring that up, because Crystal never denied those comments were made. He, in fact, granted that those comments were made and we have not seen a denial of at least from some of the people involved of all of these comments. Bannon has not denied his comments.
BROWN: The only one that is denied and correct me if I'm wrong is Tom Barrack and Katy Walsh on one of the quotes. But the President came out with a fiery statement today really going after Bannon. Here's what he said in the statement. Steve Bannon has nothing to do with me or my presidency. When he was fired he not only lost his job, he lost his mind. He was a staffer who worked for me after I already won the nomination by defeating 17 candidates often described as the most talented field ever assembled in the Republican Party. Now that he is on his own, Steve is learning that winning isn't as easy as I make it look. Steve has very little to do with our historic victory, which was delivered by the forgotten men and women of this country. Now I read your book, the devil's bargain, and it was largely about how Steve Bannon really was the person who put Trump in the White House.
GREEN: And -- look, Trump would not be President were it not for Steve Bannon. But the fact that he gets public credit for it has always been something that enrages Trump. In the Trump myth, he was on time magazine cover, he got angry at Bannon, and he doesn't want a co-star. Bannon used that line with me, Trump doesn't want a co-star, and he wants all the credit for himself. The fact that a book like Wolf's is coming out and insulting him and suggesting that he is an idiot and that he is stupid and that other people get the credit for his Presidential victory is exactly the sort of thing that is going to lead to a statement --
BROWN: There's a pattern too.
SCIUTTO: There's a pattern here. It's not just about the credit. He calls his former chief strategist a staffer. I mean, Papadopoulos, Paul Manafort barely knew him, he was a campaign chairman. That is rich.
KINGSTON: This is rich. But with Bannon, Bannon we all remember a month ago giving a great speech for Roy Moore, and Roy Moore should have been giving the speech. Up until James Carvel consultants were not even known, were never seen or heard from. They ran Ted Cruz's campaign, put him in the final home run, the homestretch, but he never went out publicly. Bannon was a guy who grabbed the microphone who did want the spotlight. I don't think that is in the best interest of any politician. I've used consultants and they're always best in the background.
SCIUTTO: Most politicians don't like competition in the spotlight.
COATES: You miss the point a little bit when you think about the idea this is a thinly veiled attempt on behalf of Donald Trump and perhaps his administration and campaign to use that ten-foot pole to distance themselves from people who are making statements that would be in support of why the Mueller investigation actually exists. So if you have somebody who has largely been the champion and heralding all throughout that this is fake news there are is not an actual -- this is a witch hunt or variety of phrases he is used and now he is saying well the magnifying glass was dually on top of Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner after that Russian meeting. So have you this whole pattern going on where the President is saying let me put out my ten- foot pole here and hope that it persuades the court of public opinion about this issue.
[23:15:00] ZELDIN: May I just add one thing to that? Every time I listen to this and I try to listen to it only as a lawyer not a person that has a political point of view. Every time I listen to the President I think how he do if he is put under oath by Mueller? How can he sustain a truthful narrative from the beginning to the end? When you see stuff like this today where he is making up things about people, calling them things that they really actually aren't, you think my goodness, when he gets in front of Mueller if he continues that pattern, then you're going to have obstruction of justice and lying and that is what got Watergate and that is what got white water.
BROWN: Also, you know, there's sort of the idea that it seems like there was not a cohesive strategy here with this book, a cohesive message. And you wonder how that will play out in terms of the investigation and whether that goes to Mueller's favor.
SCIUTTO: Whether Mueller goes after Bannon. He was make some fairly explosive comments here about money laundering. Would he not be a likely target at least for an interview?
ZELDIN: It made me smile when Bannon said I'm not testifying before anybody, I'm not giving any statements. I'm thinking he doesn't know what the word subpoena means. He is going before Mueller if Mueller wants him go before him. There is no way he is getting around that. If he has information or a belief, for example, what I found very interesting was that Bannon said there's no way that Don Jr. is not telling his father or bringing these people, the Russians, up to see his father. Everyone has thought that Don Jr. was communicating with his father about that meeting, it made no sense otherwise. The timeline just doesn't make sense without the President knowing about this. Now -- but now Bannon is speculating.
COATES: He is speculating, it's not --
ZELDIN: That he would have brought him -- but the point is whether they brought him up or not. BROWN: They're going to want to know, why do you think that?
ZELDIN: What's the basis for this and what is the nature of the communications between junior and his father as it relates to WikiLeaks, as it relates to the narrative on the airplane about the June 9 meeting, about the meeting itself. All that stuff becomes fair game now for Mueller.
SCIUTTO: And they're going to want to be testing for differences in accounts. One person says one thing, one person says another.
ZELDIN: Exactly. It's a much easier thing --
BROWN: Go ahead.
KINGSTON: Two points. Would not. Bother you two as distinguished attorneys to think that now Mueller has something? Surely Mueller has thought about all of this that Steve Bannon thinks he has to offer. If not, Mueller hasn't been doing his job. And that is question one.
ZELDIN: So do we answer it?
KINGSTON: Two is what kind of credible witness would he be after all these months and months of denial suddenly to be out there saying all these things? I think he is not a credible witness.
BROWN: Prosecutors plan -- guess what, you guys are all coming back, that is the good news. We have a lot more to discuss, clearly a lot going on today including the disturbing portrayal the President is semi-literate and unable to sit through a briefing on the constitution. And Ivanka Trump's own White House ambitions and her secret pact with her husband Jared Kushner. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:21:37] BROWN: We are back with our special report. Digging into a jaw-dropping new book on the Trump presidency.
SCIUTTO: Some remarkable stuff in here portrays the commander and chief as uninformed, unintelligent and easily unhinged and horrified that he won the election. One account, a former campaign aide talks about trying to explain the constitution to Mr. Trump. He goes to say, I got as far as the fourth amendment, he recalled, before his finger is pulling down on his eyes are rolling back in his head. Former deputy chief of staff Katy Walsh is quoted as saying that Mr. Trump's leadership style is like trying to figure out what a child wants.
BROWN: The book reportedly claims that the President's longtime friend Thomas Barrack described him to another friend this way. He is not only crazy, he is stupid. Both Walsh and Barrack deny they said those quotes that we mentioned. Author Michael Wolf writes that Mr. Trump never expected or wanted to win the election. And most everyone in his campaign agreed he probably shouldn't be President. Listen to this passage about the moment they realized victory was at hand. There was in the space of little more than an hour and Steve Bannon's not unamused observation a befuddled Trump morphing into a disbelieving Trump and then into a horrified Trump. But still to come was the final transformation suddenly. Donald Trump became a man who believed that he deserved to be and was fully capable of being the President of the United States.
All right. Let's bring back the panel for more lively discussion. Jack, starting with you. So two people have denied Katy Walsh, Barrack as well saying he was stupid or had to treat him like a kid. But no one else has come out saying these on the record statements aren't true about the line he read about the constitution and him basically falling asleep. If everything else is true, is this someone fit to be President, fit to be in the White House?
KINGSTON: He is absolutely fit to be President based on a hearsay book even those Josh say distinguished author and we need to read his book. Probably it more accurate.
BROWN: But he said he is heard a lot of things first hand that you hear in the book.
KINGSTON: Someone that was involved in the campaign, during the dark hours, the access Hollywood, the grope women, Gloria Allred parade, I say that seriously, not in a flippant way, what amazed me every time I went to New York and went to the tower is that everybody there was always optimistic. And I'm not spinning that at all. I was in the room and I talked to Kellyanne Conway and CNN's own Jason Miller, Brian Lance, I mean they were always upbeat. Dave Bossy, the same way the President, the candidate himself. You look at it because I've got like I was getting my brains beat in sometimes on this station and often times other stations and then I go up there --
BROWN: But someone who doesn't want to read, according to book he doesn't read, he fell asleep, Sam said on the record that he got to the fourth amendment and his eyes were rolling back. Is that someone?
KINGSTON: Isn't that boring? It's kind of boring.
BROWN: But if you're going to be President you should probably know about the constitution. You should probably know about it. I mean, does that concern you?
KINGSTON: It doesn't concern me because I know as a politician there are experts that come in and they want to tell you how the watch is made and you just need to know what time it is and who is my expert that I can call on when I need know more information. Then you get somebody who wants to be a prancing pony and tell you stuff you don't want to know and you've got a million other things to worry about. I don't know the guy Nunberg that was his name. Nunberg. He is probably a great guy but probably he took too long giving the explanation.
(LAUGHTER)
[23:25:20] BROWN: By the way it's more than just him.
KINGSTON: And I'll tell, you one of the things that -- you just got back from Greece today. I've been to Afghanistan and Iraq several times meeting our troops and you go over there and its 3:00 a.m. Eastern Standard Time and the general would want to walk you through a two-hour slide presentation and you know it is important.
SCIUTTO: To be fair.
COATES: If it bores you then don't become the President of the United States of America. You can only get through four of them and the President is only focused on the first seven you shouldn't be in that position. It's not about being qualified it's about the attention span.
KINGSTON: Do we really think a guy who built a billion dollar industry had real estate all over the world do we think he is dumb?
SCIUTTO: It's not about pessimism in the campaign, it's not about dumb really although there were some quotes in there.
KINGSTON: That is one of the accusations.
SCIUTTO: But the pattern that are comes across here is about a lack of interest, right in the issues, not just the constitution but in reading. The descriptions are he doesn't read but doesn't even skim documents necessarily to understand the issues. That is something you've heard from Republican members of congress that he did not know the essential details of key policy priorities.
ZELDIN: And on the hill security briefings haven't we heard that he doesn't want to hear national security briefings he doesn't have the attention span.
KINGSTON: I would say Wolf is selling books. He is going to use the quotes that give anti-Trump people the affirmation they're looking for. The same thing was said about Ronald Reagan, he can barely stay awake, he is so simple minded he doesn't understand things. And it was that same kind of criticism. I think frankly on our side we have standard criticisms that we would say about Presidents and how liberal they are, how crazy they really are underneath the hood of the car. But I think it's -- I just don't believe any of this stuff is really substantive. It wouldn't hold up in a court of law.
BROWN: How does it square with what you've heard?
GREEN: It squares almost precisely with what campaign officials would say during the campaign. There was enormous frustration in the difficulty that people had briefing Trump in any level of depth on policy issues. And he certainly isn't known as a closed reader. When my book came out I was told by senior White House official this said he is not going to read your book, but he will look at the cover, he is going to get angry about it because Steve Bannon is on there. I thought that was an insightful comment about his depth of interest in reading books.
SCIUTTO: You know, like beyond the knowledge of the issues, policy issues, constitution, et cetera, there's a lack of basic attitude that comes across to the issue of law. If you come across the misleading statement about what went on in the tower meeting which Trump himself was involved in. From a legal perspective, do you see openings here for breaking the law, right, based on this kind of handling these issues?
ZELDIN: Well, he certainly is flippant I think about his responsibilities with respect to his role as the chief executive officer and leader of the Justice Department because what is more troubling almost than the lackadaisical nature which I completely agree with his view that he has the right to intervene in criminal justice matters. The Huma Abedin, she should be in jail, crooked Hillary she should be in jail. I wish he said I could intervene more in the Justice Department on individual cases, but they tell me I can't do that. Not knowing that sort of basic responsibility of the role of the White House versus the role of the Justice Department versus the role of the FBI is very scary from a pure administration of justice standpoint.
SCIUTTO: Michael, to the rest of our panel, thanks very much. Coming up, could congress ask Steve Bannon to testify about the Trump tower meeting that he called treasonous. I'll ask a member of the house intelligence committee and the strange reason that the President loves McDonald's.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:32:58] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN SPECIAL REPORT: Welcome back tonight. The gravity of the Russia investigation confirmed by all people the President's former chief strategist Steve Bannon. We'll talk more about his explosive claim in a new book that the infamous Russia meeting at Trump tower was in his words treasonous. We're joined by a member of the House Intelligence Committee Democrats Andre Carson from the great state of Indiana. Thank you so much for joining us late in the evening.
ANDRE CARSON, CHIEF INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: You're a member of the intel committee, you're seeing a lot of the evidence and intelligence in this Russia investigation. Bannon used the words treasonous and unpatriotic for that meeting in Trump tower in 2016 where Russians were offering damaging information on Hillary Clinton. Based upon what you've seen, do you believe they acted in a treasonous way?
CARSON: We're still trying to unearth the truth in this matter. I think when Bannon comes to the committee he is schedule to come this month, we will ask him the tough questions. Both sides will ask, Republicans will ask and the Democrats will ask. We want to make sure his statements aren't out of emotionalism or spitefulness, we want to find out what he really thinks.
SCIUTTO: So Bannon's coming later this month.
CARSON: Yes.
SCIUTTO: What questions do you plan to press him on versus, one, in his public comments in this interview he talked about money laundering?
CARSON: Sure.
SCIUTTO: The possibility of money laundering. Have you seen evidence of money laundering by the Trump organization?
CARSON: I won't comment at this time, but I think it's an important point to note. I think it's something that we're going press him on, I think it's something that we're going press other witnesses on as we've done in the past.
SCIUTTO: How will the comments in this book which in effect are something of a public transcript at least of allegations, how will that affect the questions you'll ask him which will be under oath when you testify before congress, that is an under oath conversation?
CARSON: That is where it gets good. That is where we'll be able to uncover what he really feels. And hopefully he can separate himself from having been a former staffer and really enter this interview process as a patriot.
SCIUTTO: Bannon makes the point that Don Jr. and Jared Kushner, and granted in his view, Pamela and I were talking about this earlier, he has experience, but he is not a lawyer, right.
PAMELA BROWN, CNN SPECIAL REPORT: He is not a lawyer.
SCIUTTO: And it's not clear that he has evidence of this, but he says that Don Jr. and Jared Kushner are targets of Mueller's investigation or at least likely targets. Do you believe that to be true?
[23:35:10] CARSON: I think Director Mueller is the longest serving FBI Director in the bureau's history next to J. Edgar Hoover. He is accomplished, respected, I admire him. He is respected by the entire intel community. He is thorough. He is going to get to the bottom of this thing. We're going to help in our lane as the house intel committee and senate intel committee. We're going to do our job. It's a three-pronged approach we're going to give the taxpayer dollars what they're worth.
BROWN: Let me ask you on what happened today, the deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein met with speaker of house Paul Ryan about the house intelligence committee Russia probe. What can you tell us about that meeting? And why did that happen, it is not something that happen every day.
CARSON: Well, stay tuned.
BROWN: Come on, you got to give us something here.
CARSON: Well, you know, I have to balance between being elected official and honoring the document that I signed not to disclose sensitive information or top secret information but I will say this. I think now more than ever the American people are concerned about the taxpayer dollar, but our national security. And those of us who serve on the committee serve honorably. We take it as a great responsibility and we want to make sure that the American people feel secure and safe and now that we're doing our job. It's one of the most bipartisan committees in congress.
BROWN: Do you know it had anything to do with the request from your colleague Devon Nunez and the request for documents? What can you tell us about that? Is there anything about that come up in the meeting today?
CARSON: I can't speak to it.
SCIUTTO: Devon Nunez has released a statement saying that he.
CARSON: Yes.
SCIUTTO: Is satisfied with what he was told.
CARSON: Yes.
SCIUTTO: By the Justice Department and he of course made demands for documents. It sounds like he is getting what he wants.
CARSON: You know, my hope is, I know Devon. I've worked with Devon for almost a decade now, we've traveled together. My hope is that Devon and my other colleagues on the committee will honor the requests made by ranking member Schiff and the other Democrats like myself and work in the bipartisan fashion get to the bottom of this. We should take politics out of this and partisanship out of this investigatory process and really work together. Republicans should not issue roadblocks every time we make a request. It's been happening.
BROWN: You feel like that is happening, roadblocks.
CARSON: Continuous.
BROWN: Do you feel they're trying tend to the investigation?
CARSON: In many ways, absolutely3.
BROWN: Do you.
CARSON: I think that the Republicans who serve on the committee serve honorably, but unfortunately they're taking huge from leadership. We want them to be bold as well. It's an election year and now more than ever we need them to be bold.
BROWN: All right. Congressman thank you so much.
CARSON: What an honor, thank you.
BROWN: Still ahead will the Bannon betrayal in that new book because any lasting damage for the President? And the first lady's trail of tears. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:41:25] BROWN: Well this is a CNN special report. Trump one year later. President Trump is starting his second year in office in an all-out war with the former chief strategist Steve Bannon.
SCIUTTO: Tonight we're learning more about the president's furry at Bannon and a new book that Bannon calls the 2016 Trump tower Russia meeting treasonous. Joined now by our panel expert's reporters, Manu Raju, we got a little news speaking from Andre Carson from the House Intelligence Committee just a few minutes ago. He said that Steve Bannon is now scheduled to come before the committee later this month.
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes and we knew he was on a list of witnesses that they plan to talked to, they wanted to talk to. We had -- we had not gotten word yet or confirmation that Bannon had agreed to come and speak to the committee. We don't have any indication that he is been subpoenaed to come before the committee. So if he is, in fact, agreed to come into the committee, that will be interesting. We'll see if Bannon agrees with that assertion by Andre Carson.
But even before all this they wanted to talk to him, he wasn't the Trump's inner circle, his name has come up repeatedly through this investigation. Everything from Eric Prince when he testified before the House Intelligence Committee referenced Steve Bannon and some of the meetings that occurred. There were things that they wanted to ask him. It's a sign what that while the house investigation is not over yet, there are still other witness that they have to interview, maybe it will be done in a few days, a few weeks.
SCIUTTO: The reports are still going. What kind of witness on the hill is Steve? You talked to him, is he going to make?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Steve Bannon is an interesting guy and somebody who knows the inner workings of that campaign, no matter what they're saying now, he was quite responsible for the win of Donald Trump. And I think that this -- this interview is really damaging, because it's kind of an emperor has no clothes moment for this White House. And it makes it clear that those around him and Donald Trump never expected to win and that once they won they had a President-Elect and then a President who was incurious and childish and uninformed. And I think that is hugely damaging and it just -- there's a narrative there that it reinforces about Trump.
SCIUTTO: Pamela, listen to one of these quotes from Michael Wolf's story describing him. Here's one. Everybody in his rich guy social circle knew about his wide-ranging ignorance. There's another one. He neither particularly listened to what was said to him nor particularly considered what he said in response. And this is a pattern that you hear you made the point earlier it's not just from Steve Bannon or one person has denied a couple of the quotes it's from a whole host of people we spoke to.
BROWN: What's interesting to me, Steve Bannon also said things that I think would be of interesting to Mueller's investigators. He talked about the idea of money laundering and how you get to the President through those who are close around him. Jared Kushner, his on son Don Jr., he is said, Evan, Bannon has said that he hasn't been contacted by Mueller's team, he is not part of that investigation. But you imagine they're paying close attention to all of this. EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We know that certainly in
previous investigations that people that the prosecutors and the FBI people are doing in these types of investigations read very closely these types of accounts. Especially for someone this close to the President, this close and involved in the campaign. I'm surprised that he hasn't been asked yet. But it certainly seems to me that he will. And, look, this was an authorized book, this book was.
BROWN: On the record statements.
PEREZ: Somebody -- yes, with somebody who was repeatedly brought into the White House, ushered in, gave him a pass and allowed him to wander around the west wing. So it's an account that carries a lot more weight.
[23:45:09] BORGER: You know, I wonder how much Bannon knows about the Russia investigation. Don't forget that Don Jr. meeting took place before Bannon came into the campaign, I believe a couple months. I may be off a little bit on that. It seems to me that what we're reading in all of this could be Bannon's speculation about deutsche bank or about --
BROWN: It could be but some of it with the money laundering. We heard Fusion GPS. You keep hearing about that in the op-ed he references this idea of money laundering.
BORGER: He may be reinforcing it. He doesn't like Jared Kushner. We know this is a duel to the death between these two.
PEREZ: Going back to what Jim was talking about, the idea that these guys, I think what with you were saying that these guys did not expect Trump to win.
BORGER: No.
PEREZ: And that includes people inside the campaign.
BORGER: Right.
PEREZ: I think that say theme that we keep coming back to as we've been covering this story now for the past year, which is that it drove a lot of the decisions which is coming back to bite them.
SCIUTTO: They did not -- for instance, they talk about Michael Flynn accepting this $45,000 payment for going to Russia. On the expectation that Trump wouldn't win therefore it would be a problem if he was setting up business contacts for --
RAJU: Right.
BROWN: He supports that theory, exactly. And also the fact that as you pointed out, Evan there are was authorized. He made repeated visits to the west wing. What does that tell you about just the administration allowing a writer to come in in these early days and have free access in the fact that they apparently believed that he would write a glowing book about the administration. SCIUTTO: In the midst of the constant attacks on the fake news media
he is in the west wing.
BORGER: I think it's arrogance to a great degree. I think it is inexperience probably to an even greater degree.
PEREZ: It doesn't happen without the President. The President was his own communication strategist, right.
BORGER: He is a reality TV star, the more publicity the better.
RAJU: Sara Sanders today at the White House tried to make the case - it was not really involve in this just the President only spoke for a few minutes with the author of this book. But in reality they gave him unfettered access.
SCIUTTO: They did.
RAJU: He spoke to a significant amount of people and he had firsthand account of a lot of things there.
BORGER: I think they're lucky Donald Trump doesn't read books because if he were to read this book he would discover that people didn't respect him or admire him.
SCIUTTO: A lot of this --
BROWN: It makes you wonder if he knew some of these excerpts and that was behind a lot of the tweets the last 24 hours.
SCIUTTO: It's getting tweeted tonight, we know he is on twitter.
BROWN: That is true.
SCIUTTO: We are going to be back, coming up the Ivanka factor, her reported Presidential plans her pact with her husband and the secrets that she is revealed about her father's famous hair.
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[23:51:45] SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Tonight the President is said to be furious about a sensational new book about him and his family that makes the Trump White House feel more like a reality show than ever.
BROWN: It describes Ivanka Trump as having her own Presidential ambitions and a secret pact with husband Jared Kushner. Author Michael Wolf writes between themselves the two had made an earnest deal if sometime in the future an opportunity arose, she would be the one to run for president.
SCIUTTO: However Donald and Melania Trump apparently had no intention of moving to the White House, the book describes the first couples realization that he had won the election. Don Jr. told a friend that he looked as if he had seen a ghost. Melania was in tears and not of joy. BROWN: And we learned more about the President's personal habits,
including his fast food obsession. The book writes, "He had a longtime fear of being poisoned, one reason why he liked to eat at McDonald's. Nobody knew he was coming and the food was safely premade. And he was not having his 6:30 dinner with Steve Bannon then, more to his likely he was in bed by that time with a cheeseburger watching his three screens and making phone calls. And the book claims Ivanka Trump made fun of her father's famous hair. McColors she would point out to comical effect, which pun her product just for men. The longer it was left on the darker it got and patience results in Trump's orange blond hair color.
All right, so much to unpack here. Gloria, what stood out to you about all of that?
BORGER: Well, to me the stunning thing was the food taster notion, the fact that, first of all, it's the best excuse I've ever heard to eat at McDonald's, if you need one, there it is, there it is. But what does it tell you about somebody who is worried about being poisoned all the time?
SCIUTTO: He has a paranoia about apparently according (inaudible) about (inaudible).
RAJU: I'm not questioning his reporting. I'm saying there a lot of competing factions of this White House. I wonder to what extent that some people say the Bannon wing did not like the Jared Kushner wing very much and how much Bannon, some of the things he is feeding things there may have been done to make Ivanka Trump not look as good.
PEREZ: I think the thing about covering the Trump White House has been the fact that you can't get one story. Every time you talk to people there, there are five different things that you're hearing. The idea that you put together a coherent narrative in a book like this a rather interest thing, I mean it is either a herculean act to do that or you're choosing which side to believe. I think that is what he has chosen.
BORGER: I think it is really difficult, we have all done reporting on the White House. One person will tell you one thing, another person will tell you something that is diametrically opposed at the White House. And the President, I think, it pushes every hot button for him. It pushes the family hot button and it pushes the Russia hot button.
[23:55:05] BROWN: And it not going away. Michael Wolf, the author, is going to be doing interviews. The book hasn't even come out yet.
SCIUTTO: And then President Ivanka Trump.
BORGER: I don't know about you but I made this deal with my husband a long time ago that I'd be the one to run. It just seems ridiculous but, again, it's a story that makes Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner both look bad.
RAJU: It wouldn't even surprise me if she wasn't thinking one way to run. The way she is positioned herself. We'll see how she emerges at the end of the four years.
SCIUTTO: You have these stories of dysfunction and behind the scenes, et cetera, which we don't know the sources and that said, it's reflective of the dysfunction outside the White House in terms of competing messages and so on. There is some method behind this.
BROWN: It makes you think if you look at the President's twitter feed, did he find -- is that behind the tweet?
PEREZ: It sounds like he certainly was being driven by something. He seemed like he was mad about something. We're not sure if it was Russia or what it is.
BORGER: It's more likely he would have tweeted after this to divert us.
BROWN: All right. Everybody, thank you so much for joining us. The news continues next right here on CNN.
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