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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN International: UK Lawmakers Rejects No Deal Brexit. Aired 4-5pm ET
Aired March 13, 2019 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[16:00:00] JOHN BECOW, SPEAKER, BRITISH HOUSE OF COMMONS: -- for interview in all likelihood, many propositions will come to be tested.
It's a (inaudible) to get bell, just take the point of order first from Mr. Jacob Rees-Mogg.
JACOB REES-MOGG, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wonder -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and welcome to our continuing coverage of Brexit live outside the Houses of Parliament. I'm Hala Gorani.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Richard Quest: And tonight, unprecedented political turmoil here in the UK and it shoes no sign of easing up. Westminster, Parliament voting in the last few minutes to reject a no deal Brexit in any circumstances. It's an unbinding vote, and a no deal Brexit can still happen.
And anyway, the law in this country is still the Britain leaves on the 29th of March, with or without term, a deal.
GORANI: Well, Theresa May spoke. We could barely understand what she was saying, because she's gone quite a course. But she's stressed after the vote that this remains the legal default.
So what happens now? Well, they will vote again tomorrow on whether to extend the Brexit deadline beyond March 29 just 16 days from now. If that's a no, Richard, then it's the great unknown. It's anyone's guess what will happen.
QUEST: Our guests, our experts here. Carole, your take on what it means.
CAROLE WALKER, POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, first of all, I should say that that final vote was yet another huge blow to the Prime Minister. At the last minute, the government tried to impose what's called a tree line with most strict instruction to MPs and ministers not to vote for this motion. That went through nonetheless with a majority of more than 43 votes. A handful of cabinet ministers defied that instruction and sat it out, abstained. We don't know whether they are going to feel they have to resign, whether they'll face disciplinary action. That seems very unlikely from our PM or Prime Minister.
And we then head from Prime Minister saying, well, look, as you've pointed out the default legal position is still that the UK leaves on March 29 with or without a deal.
GORANI: No.
WALKER: And I was going to say, but she is now about to set out what motions we're going to get tomorrow, and those will include delaying Article 50, and furthermore she's pointing out, you can only have a short delay, which is what most MPs would like, if that is on the basis of getting through the necessary legislation for her deal which, of course, has already been defeated. Otherwise it's a long extension and the UK putting up candidates fort European elections.
GORANI: Right
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is a textbook constitutional crisis on two levels now. Not only is it enshrined in British law that the UK is leaving on the 29th of March and Parliament has just voted overwhelmingly, well, demonstrably for the third time to reject that as an option, but it's not legally binding. Then if Brexit does extend the negotiation process, it leads itself in a situation where it may or may not be represented in the European Parliament because of the European elections. That is double whammy constitutional crisis, in its truest sense, I can't think of a better term.
GORANI: When we say these amendments and these motions are not legally binding, the referendum itself was an advisory referendum.
NOBILO: Yes, it's a very good point.
GORANI: I mean, so you can take as an example that the referendum result that the government is saying is the will of the people. Here you have the will of Parliament as well expressed. Could the government go against the will of Parliament?
WALKER: I think it would be very difficult indeed for the Prime Minister now to somehow try and defy what is happening in Parliament. In fact, he seemed to be signaling essentially that she accepts that it is now up to MPs what they want to vote for tomorrow.
There will be a motion. There will be a government motion for some form of delay. We're going to be hearing more details of that later tonight, but that in itself will be open to amendment. That is in itself will be open to groups of MPs different factions to put down what they think should happen next. That could mean, for example, trying to put a second referendum on the table.
QUEST: Carole, luckily CNN has teams panned out across United Kingdom to react to his latest development. As Anna Stewart is in Edinburgh in Scotland, Phil Black is in the Town of Whitby in North of England. We'll hear from both of you in just a minute.
And I want you to be brief, Nina dos Santos in Downing Street, because I want to get back to Anna and Phil Black. Nina, what will Downing Street now be thinking?
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It will be wondering whether those cabinet ministers will resign if they're in accord or whether they will be forced to resign.
[16:05:01] Not likely as Carole was just saying before that this government with the weakened position that the Prime Minister is in would be willing to kiss goodbye to several cabinet members because they decided to abstain. But it just goes to highlight the level of divisions that we'll likely see in the cabinet. They will meet tomorrow after these shenanigans, high stakes shenanigans in the British House of Commons.
Now, I just want to point out a tweet coming from a journalist for The Times of London. Obviously, this is unconfirmed as yet but he is suggesting that a well-regarded Department for Work and Pensions, a minister there has decided to resign of her own accord. That as yet unconfirmed, but it might give you an idea of the fact that we may well have more junior ministers, perhaps even senior ministers who may decide that they don't necessarily want to be part of the front bench of this government anymore.
And I should just point out, Richard, very briefly, as I've been saying all day, we're (inaudible) Prime Minister throughout the course of this last few days was a defeat. We have not seen her once on the front steps of Downing Street in the last 48 hours that I have been here. And that gives you an idea whether or not this is a Prime Minister who is thinking about whether she can hold office if she can't command authority in the House of Commons in the future. Richard.
QUEST: All right. I want to quickly go, if I may, to Anna Stewart and Phil Black. Let's start with you, Anna. Briefly, how will Scotland be viewing all this tonight?
Anna Stewart, Scotland is going to be taking another dim view of this. I mean, this morning I went out to Edinburgh and the number of people that has rolled their eyes. They don't even want to talk about Brexit anymore, all the shenanigans in Westminster sees very far away, and very far moved from what they want, which after all was to remain in the EU.
Now, you had earlier just after Theresa May, we had from Ian Blackford, the Spokesperson from SNP Ian Blackford. He said as we understand. This is a constitutional crisis. He said at the meeting of the Prime Minister. He wants an open ended extension to Article 50. He want another referendum. Frankly, they want to remain and they will probably not going to use this to try and have another independent vote for Scotland. Richard?
QUEST: Phil Black, the idea in Northern England that you leave -- that no deal has now been taken off the table, and the prospect of an elongated extension of the departure will be greeted as what?
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Disappointment by some, irritation, certainly anger, I think, Richard. Remember, different people voted for Brexit for different reasons, but there's no doubt that people here in Whitby, across the northeast, and in other Brexit voting areas which were tuned really extensively over the last few weeks and months talking to people. There are big numbers of people who believe that their Brexit vote must be something quick, clean and dramatic. Brexit, regardless of the cost, regardless of the consequences, essentially a no deal scenario.
So the idea that that could now be removed as an option, as I say, they will feel very strongly, and indeed, even angry that that is now the case. And pointing forward, that disappointment, irritation and anger is only likely to increase, because you heard there in Parliament, political leaders talking about a delay is essentially now being a fact in waiting. The feeling about that in these sorts of areas will be something certainly very close to betrayal, the feeling that their votes for Brexit simply has not being listened to and has not counted. Richard?
QUEST: Phil and Anna, thank you for staying late this evening in Whitby and in Scotland.
GORANI: And what about Brussels? What does it think about all of this? Erin McLaughlin is there.
And, Erin, we've been saying as we've been covering these votes that Brussels has been quite clear that it would grant an extension, but only if there's something significant. There is a significant reason that it would do so, not just to continue, you know, the process without any kind of tangible difference or tangible decision that can be made to change the outcome. So what is their likely reaction to what we're seeing this evening?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I just received the reaction from the European Commission, Hala, texted to me from the European Commissions spokesperson saying the following. Saying, "We take note of the votes in the House of Commons this evening. There are only two ways to leave the EU, with or without a deal. The EU is prepared for both. To take no deal off the table is not enough to vote against no deal, you have to agree to a deal. We have agreed a deal with the Prime Minister and the EU is ready to sign it."
[16:09:56] So reiterating the point that the only real way to avoid that dreaded no deal scenario seen as catastrophic for both sides of the channel is to, in fact, agree to a deal. It was a point that Michel Barnier made earlier today as well on the point of a possible extension.
He also said very clearly that he wants to know what United Kingdom wants precisely out of that future relationship. We've also heard from other EU leaders, that the Brexit coordinator for Parliament give a hot shot today call for some sort of cross-party compromise for both sides of the aisle there in Westminster to come together with a plan for the way forward.
But I think in general the EU will welcome the outcome of today's vote, especially the fact that parliamentarians there rejected that Malthouse amendment that would have called for a so-called managed no deal, so-called brief extension of that deadline, and then leading to some sort of transition without a deal. Barnier earlier this morning making it very clear that there will be no transition period without a withdrawal agreement.
So I think in all, this would be a positive -- seen as a positive step forward from the EU perspective, but most burning point of all at this point from the perspective of EU leaders and EU officials, they want the UK to define precisely what they want out of that future relationship and then consider that extension question.
GORANI: Yes.
QUEST: Erin, this is -- I was listening closely to what you were saying. This is not academic, though, is it? In the next week or so, the British Prime Minister is going to turn up maybe at the next council on the 20th and 21st and ask for an extension. Now, just what level of granularity is the EU going to need about what the UK wants?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, that's unclear at this point, Richard. When it comes to the question of the extension, I've been told that the EU 27 leaders had not considered that together. They haven't had a robust discussion to talk about the various scenarios at this point. There is no consensus.
When that happens, which is expected to happen if Theresa May makes that formal request, they have three questions, the first being what is the duration of the extension requested, what is the purpose of the extension, and then finally the impact such an extension would have on EU institutions, namely European Parliament, parliamentary elections are in May.
Any sort of extension that could be granted beyond July 2nd, which is when Parliament is expected to sit, would require, according to officials who have been consulting with their lawyers on this, parliamentarians there in the United Kingdom to run in those European elections.
QUEST: Erin, thank you. A busy night for you in Brussels, too, finding out what Euro wants looking at the pound. Let's take a quick look before we take a break on how the pound sterling has performed in all of this. It had been up roughly one and a third cents well they are. I don't like what I sees there. Sterling, the market likes the fact because I can give you one of them.
Two reasons, one, because of extension on the way, and two, Brexit may not happen.
GORANI: Yes. Or at the very least, the new deal scenario has been at least in the minds of the market, not ruled out but become less likely, right? That's part of the reason that investors, currency traders, are re reassured here.
WALKER: I think that perhaps they are more reassured than they should be. I think there still so much uncertainty now about the whole future cause of Brexit. Yes, this vote here sends an instruction to the Prime Minister that she should not go for a no-deal Brexit. I think it's unlikely she would ever have done that in any case.
But I think that what has happened and the way that it has been handled has thrown even more confusion into this whole process. And what we're going to see tomorrow is a whole series of other votes on a potential delay, and perhaps the Prime Minister signaling once again that she's going to have, yes, a third go of getting her deal through.
GORANI: All right. Well, she's persistent, that's for sure.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll go to Northern Ireland after this. Stay with us.
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[16:17:11] GORANI: Well, welcome back. Front and center in all this Brexit drama is a thing called the backstop, figuring out how to handle the border in Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. The backstop is really an insurance policy that if no deal is reached between the UK and the EU that it would not lead to the erection of a hard border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
Nic Robertson is live with us with the view from Northern Ireland tonight. So presumably, because the majority of people in Northern Ireland voted remain, they would be relieved this evening that Parliament rejected a no deal outcome.
Nic Robertson: Presumably they would, but of course the key influence on Theresa May is a Democratic Unionist Party which was the only party here that told their voters to vote to leave and continues to take a very tough position. They still believe that Theresa May can get a better deal from the European Union. They believe she just needs to knuckle down and negotiate harder.
But fundamentally, they also believe that a no-deal Brexit would be also in their interests. Potentially it would make it, in their minds, an affirmation that nothing would come between Northern Ireland and their union with the rest of the United Kingdom, and by default means less likely for Northern Ireland to one day become part of a United Ireland, which is the fundamental steering factor for the Democratic Unionist Party.
But if you talk to a majority of people here, frankly as we've heard from the rest of the country, it is merit here, people are essentially very sick and tired of how low Brexit is dragging on. Eighty percent of the people in the constituency aim and voted to remain. Every one but perhaps one person I talked to here today said Ireland is, essentially, Ireland is island, one island. We think of ourselves as being Irish. We want that border to be open.
So they reject the notion that they could be a hard border, essentially reject the notion of a no-deal Brexit. And for that reason, yes, they might feel a little better about what they heard. But I think in essence there is so much uncertainty I think it's going to be a while before anyone here breathes easily and properly, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Thank you very much, Nic Robertson there with the view there from Northern Ireland. Carole Walker is still here, and we now have with us James Blitz, White House Editor at the Financial Times.
JAMES BLITZ, WHITEHALL EDITOR, THE FINANCIAL TIMES: Whitehall. Sorry.
GORANI: How are you?
QUEST: Whitehall, Whitehall.
GORANI: What did I say? White house.
QUEST: White House probably the right place.
GORANI: No, it would not be the right place. But there's as much chaos there, I was going to say Whitehall Editor. James, your reaction to what we saw this evening.
[16:20:58] BLITZ: I think having listen to the Downing Street briefing just now after the vote, I can begin to see what's now going to happen, which is at least as May is going to bring back her deal one more time next week, preferred on the last time, I think.
And what she's basically saying is to the Commons and MPs is, "Look, if you pass this deal, we could then get a short extension, and I think about two and a half months up to the start of the European elections. And we can leave at that point," that's (inaudible).
If you don't pass that deal, then we are going to have to go for a much, much longer extension with the EU, something like one year, two years. We will participate as a country in the European elections and everything is wide open. We could have a second referendum, all sorts of thing could happen. She would certainly have to go at that point.
GORANI: And when would she do that? When would she get her deal through a third time?
BLITZ: Well, it looks to me it's going to be next week.
GORANI: OK.
BLITZ: It's going to be ahead of European Council.
GORANI: Before she goes to European Council.
BLITZ: Before she goes to European Council.
GORANI: Yes.
BLITZ: If she gets the through, she goes to European Council and asks for additional two and a half months to do all the lectures (ph) that keep tiding up.
GORANI: Sure.
BLITZ: If she doesn't get it through, she goes to European Council and then goes for a much, much longer extension.
QUEST: James, I know you're spokesperson tonight. You have seen the quote. It says. "It is not enough to vote against no deal. You have to agree to a deal. And isn't that really the valid point that the Prime Minister is making tonight? It's fine to say you don't want no deal. But hers is the only deal on the table, and you're not going to negotiate another one in three weeks or two weeks.
GORANI: Yes.
QUEST: So there's either this -- she's technically, right, it's either her deal or a very limited extension.
BLITZ: Yes, I think that is right. I mean I think that both effectively saying the same thing. And she is saying, look, we've got a deal. It's agreed with the EU. If you pass it, we're out. We'll do a little bit of an extension lasting two and a half months, up to May, and then we're out. Alternatively, basically we've got to wipe the slate clean and go back to the beginning.
And so -- and that's right. What we're not going to have is some kind of a halfway house in which we have a short extension and we try and modify this deal. That's not going to work anymore.
GORANI: So will her strategy work? Because all along she's been telling MPs there is a risk of no Brexit if you don't support me, right? Will the strategy work that use as --
WALKER: Well, the big fluid or the big danger for Downing Street in all of this is that, it does mean she's hoping to get her deal through the third attempt. And it's worth pointing out that last time around in the votes -- was it only one day ago? It seems long time.
QUEST: It was last night.
BLITZ: Last night.
WALKER: Last night.
BLITZ: Yes.
WALKER: There were only about 40 MPs who voted against at the previous time who switched sides. She's going to need to win over an awful lot more MPs when she puts the same deal back for a third time.
GORANI: She lost by 149 the second time.
WALKER: It was the fourth biggest defeat ever in the UK. It wasn't quite as bad as previous to be, but it was still of something defeat. The risk for Downing Street in this whole strategy is that they may hope that the pressure of time, that the pressure of a long delay will persuade enough MPs to change sides. But, you know, passions are running very high on this, and it's far from a foregone conclusion that on a third attempt she will get her deal through.
GORANI: Yes, James? BLITZ: I think you're exactly right. I mean, what she is basically banking on now is that when we come to this vote next week, those people that voted against her yesterday are going to say, this really is it. If I don't fight this, we're going to do a long extension. The whole thing could be over. So she's effectively putting a gun to her head, to use that kind of phrase.
But as you rightly say, it's an enormous amount of people to turn around, number one. And number two, she's putting the exactly same deal in front of them that they've all rejected. So credibility-wise, these people aren't going to be looking that great, because they didn't say (inaudible).
QUEST: Well, she -- they may not be looking that great, but she's entitled to say this is the only deal. This is the only deal. It is, you know, members of the House, it's this or a long extension. Make your choice, ladies and gentlemen.
WALKER: Well, she's finally at least come out with a strategy. But I think that there are many MPs and (inaudible) ministers who believe that after that second defeat it was time to change track and try and seek some different course. It was interesting to hear, the chance for himself is the middle of his financial statement today, saying that he believed it was time to try to find some consensus right across the House.
That was an open gesture of defiance from the chancellor himself. We have just seen in the vote tonight a handful of ministers who defied the instructions, the whipping instructions to abstain on a vote where Downing Street had said MPs should vote against. The Prime Minister lost another vote again tonight.
GORANI: A remarkable situation where the government was whipping against its own motion because it had been amended.
BLITZ: So tonight was a textbook case of a government losing control of the House of Commons. They don't see this very often. They went from one vote, they lose it. They then whip the another way because the amended version is something they can't have. They lose that as well. They lose ministers. She's not in a good place, so--
GORANI: How long will she last?
WALKER: It is I think a question of time as to how long she can last. Look, if this strategy for next week--
GORANI: But are we looking at days here? Because --
WALKER: Well, look, if this strategy comes off, if through some extraordinary amount of arm twisting miracles and goodness knows what other indecency she can persuade enough MPs to switch sides, get her deal through, get a limited extension to get the legislation through, then clearly she will stay in place at least until we get to the other side of that. But if she doesn't succeed in that, well I think then all bets are off. GORANI: All right. Thank you very much and James Blitz as well. A quick reminder before we get to our next guest. This is how Theresa May reacted to the vote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER OF UNITED KINGDOM: These are about the choices that this House faces. The legal default in UK and the EU remains that UK will leave the EU without a deal unless, unless, unless something else is agreed. The onus is now on every one of us in this House to find out what that is. The options before us are the same as they always have been.
We could leave with the deal which is government negotiation over the past two years, we could leave with a deal that we have negotiated second to a referendum but that means no Brexit at all. Damaging, damaging the fragile trust between the British public, damaging the fragile trust between the British public and the members of this House.
We could seek to negotiate a different deal, however the EU has been clear that the deal on the table is indeed the only deal available.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: We're joined by the Scottish National Party MP Drew Hendry. Good to see you, sir.
DREW HENDRY, SCOTTISH NATIONAL PARTY MP: Hello.
QUEST: Without sort of giving us the traditional Scottish SNP line that you don't want to be dragged out of the EU, we heard some of that earlier. Just on the practicalities of this, that what happens now in your view to get this thing forward?
HENDRY: Well, this is a constitutional crisis that Theresa May has managed to cook up here. She's completely lost control of the Brexit situation, she's lost control of our government as we've seen tonight, and she's been voted down by Parliament time and time again.
What we needed to see next was some humility from the Prime Minister in understanding that this isn't going to go forward the way she wants, not an attempt to bring back a bad deal to Parliament and actually just accepting there's no need to go to the people.
GORANI: What -- so how did you vote tonight on all these amendments? You voted to take no deal off the table, right?
HENDRY: Absolutely, yes. It would be calamities (ph) result, not just for Scotland but for of the nations of the UK to come out without a deal. But any version of Brexit is bad..
GORANI: And there's a vote tomorrow on an extension of Article 50, on delaying Brexit altogether, would you be in favor of that?
HENDRY: Well, we're absolutely in favor of delaying Article 50. We believe it should be would (inaudible) know the government should bring back the legislation to allow us actually put that in place and if necessary have European elections, yes.
QUEST: OK. So you want to bring back without time limit, well that's not probably going to happen. But the Europeans, I get the feeling, listening to the debate in the House, and listening to your words over here. You seem to be thinking it's all in an isolation. The Europeans have to agree to this, and the Europeans are not going to say we're going to give you unlimited extension, or we're going to give you an extension until the 29th. Or, I mean, as a spokesman for Europe said tonight, there has to be some deal on the table. Where is that deal?
HENDRY: Exactly. What we can have is a proposition that goes back to the people and a people's vote. That would give them a reason for an extension of Article 50. And it should be without a limit of time so that can be done properly.
QUEST: If you do that, if you do that without a deal on the table from which to vote upon for the people's vote, you are de facto rerunning the referendum, if you do that without a deal.
GORANI: What would this question be, I guess, is the question.
HENDRY: Well, it's quite clear that Theresa May's deal is not going to get through Parliament. That's done is a dead deal. You push to one site, Parliament can agree, can take control of us. The government is in absolute chaos. The only place you can take it in those circumstances is back to the people.
[16:30:00] GORANI: But what would the question be?
HENDRY: Well, the question would be, do you want to remain in the EU or do you want to take the deal that's been offered here?
GORANI: But you've called it a dead deal, either to one side. You still ask the people --
HENDRY: Well, Theresa May still putting this proposition forward as if it's a real estate proposition. We'll let the people decide if they want to see, having seen all this play out, having seen the consequences, the losses of jobs, the increases in prices of food, to the hardships people are going to face, let's see that put in front of the people.
QUEST: Thank you for coming in, sir.
HENDRY: Thank you.
QUEST: Much appreciate, thank you very much indeed.
GORANI: Drew Hendry, thank you for being with us.
QUEST: We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back on CNN. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello (inaudible) good evening to you. We need to update you on the developments tonight. A chaotic evening here in Westminster where the UK Parliament has just voted to reject a no-deal Brexit in any circumstances, an amended version of the Prime Minister's motion.
Now, this was not how Theresa May wanted the evening to go or to play out. Taking no deal off the table entirely was most certainly not part of the Prime Minister's plan.
GORANI: Well, either way the amendment is non-binding, the legal default in this country is without an agreement, the UK will leave the EU without a deal or with a deal on March 29. So what happens next? Tonight's result paves the way for a vote tomorrow on weather to delay Brexit beyond the March 29 deadline, and depending on the outcome of that vote, we will know if the will of the Parliament, the will of the House here is to delay the exit from the EU.
QUEST: The other major story. Breaking news tonight, the Boeing 737 Max has now been grounded by the United States. The company's share price ended the day a touch higher after a volatile session. President Trump announced the US would ground the 737 Max 8 and 9 with immediate effect.
The decision came after the FAA said it saw some similarities between Sunday's deadly Ethiopian crash and that's of the Lion Air crash last October. Donald Trump said he did not want to take any chances.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: The United States has the greatest record in the world of aviation and we want to keep it that way, so I didn't want to take any chances. We didn't have to make this decision today.
[16:35:02] We could have delayed it, maybe didn't have to make it at all, but I felt it was important both psychologically and a lot of other ways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The former Inspector General of the US Transportation Department, Mary Schiavo, joins us from Charleston, North Carolina. And, Mary, is of course an adviser to various litigants and has pending litigation against Boeing.
Mary, the decision, and you and I have spoken much about it over the last couple days -- they're taking the change on this new data which Canada said came from satellite.
MARY SCHIAVO, FORMER INSPECTOR GENERAL OF THE US TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT: That's right, satellite and there's also apparently been the stories that are coming out of the government, obviously raging disagreements between Boeing, FAA, other interested parties on not only when this work needs to be done to the aircraft but they're still debating and discussing a what has to be done. And I think anyone with some common sense hearing that they hadn't even agreed on the full nature of the fix and when it should be done, I think the President made a logical, common sense decision.
QUEST: Mary, how damaging is this for the FAA, bearing in mind only yesterday, late last night, they said there was no data worthy of grounding the fleet. Today they have this fig leaf of data which they say has changed the position.
SCHIAVO: Well, in the data that CNN covered also surfaced about the pilot reports about the problems with the plane. You know, this is damaging to the FAA's reputation. They should be the stellar, you know, aviation cops. They should be on top of all of this and once again they have fallen down.
But, you know, the FAA will continue on what it does. The FAA was dealt a severe blow after September 11, 2001 when people, hey, you were in charge of security, what we you doing? And they had a tremendous reputation deflation then, too.
But some people have said the FAA is, you know, they're embarrassment proof, and let's hope this helps them turn around. But yes, I can't believe the turnaround. Yesterday they say it's fine, and today I've seen the order. It's unequivocal, grounded.
QUEST: And, Mary, the black boxes are going to front the BEA in front, I won't attempt the name, and obviously they are exceptionally experienced at doing it. But are you surprised that the boxes haven't gone sooner? We have varied information about the boxes?
SCHIAVO: Yes, I am, because, you know, as soon as they download them in a traffic lab, and I agree with you on (inaudible) lab. We've worked, you know, together several crashes where the BEA has been involved, and they're able to do it and download it and get this information.
And given the urgency of this, yes, I am surprised. I would assume that in the days to come, information will come out about, you know, discussion and disagreement on where to send them. I think there was no question that they were not going to come to the United States with this fiasco going on of the fight between the FAA, Boeing, the government and the pronouncement. But I think that's a good place for them and I still think that they will have information for us within a week.
QUEST: Mary, I'm a little concerned that we haven't as yet really had much information from the Ethiopian authorities, the investigation authorities. No press releases, no press conferences, no updates, merely the Ethiopian Aviation Authorities putting out pictures on their Facebook page, but no actual hard information, the sort which you would get from the NTSB in the days after an accident.
SCHIAVO: Exactly, and that's an excellent point, because as you know, the international civil aviation organization guidelines for how to conduct an investigation of a plane crash says that you should be briefing the families, that you should be keeping them advised, you should be treating them to the information as the investigation goes forth, because it also includes a component of treating the families of the victims.
So perhaps during the process of gathering the families to a location or several locations, they often have remote briefing locations in other countries, too, and getting ready to do that, but by not holding these family briefings they are not living up to the IKO standard, so I hope they will do that soon.
QUEST: Mary, thank you. We'll talk more, obviously, as this continues. Boeing has released a statement following the news. Boeing says, "We are supporting this proactive step after an abundance of caution."
[16:40:01] By the way that phrase, abundance caution, exactly the same one that the Chinese used when they grounded the fleet.
The Boeing continues, Safety is a core value at Boeing for as long as we have been building airplanes and it always will be."
The pound, let just take a look at the pound because it's being on a bit of a tads, being putting on quite a bit of wait as the Parliament, in House of Parliament, oh look at that.
Oh look at that. Hala Gorani, look at that. That is up 2 percent for the pound we need to --
GORANI: Those are some confident currency traders.
QUEST: We are.
GORANI: They had no deal is less of a likelihood today or tonight than it was yesterday at this time.
QUEST: We need to talk about that after the break.
GORANI: We will. Stay with us.
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GORANI: All right. Let's get you up to speed on tonight's developments. It's been a chaotic evening in Westminster. Parliament has voted to reject a no-deal Brexit under any circumstance.
Richard, before the break, we were looking at what the pound was doing, and currency traders are really buying into the pound here because there is, at least it appears based on the pounds where it's trading, some confidence that no deal is probably off the table at this point.
QUEST: Yes. I mean, it makes the -- it is only -- I mean, I agree with you, but it is restoring losses, seeing when it looked like no was made. And the issue now, of course, is how to give effect to all of this? What actually happens next?
GORANI: Right. And tomorrow, there is a vote on whether or not to extend the negotiation period between the UK and the EU. But, of course, this is all happening in vitro in the building behind me, behind us, Richard, because the EU here is of course the partner in this discussion as well.
They have not said that they will unconditionally allow the UK to extend -- in fact, quite the contrary in some cases saying we need something substantial to discuss, we're not just going to extend it for the sake of extending it, this negotiation period. And if nothing else changes, as we've been telling our viewers, March 29 is D-day in terms of the UK's exit from the EU.
QUEST: We'll ask Bianca Nobilo in a few moments whether this is a constitutional crisis. Just give her some warning of that so she can start looking verse in a mail or something.
That being said let's go to Number 10, Nina dos Santos.
DOS SANTOS: Thanks so much, Richard and Hala.
[16:45:00] Well, there's certainly a government in crisis this evening. I really want to focus in on the issue of those ministers who were told, apparently, that they could abstain from voting with the government on this or overtly engage to government on this particular motion.
You remember that confusing motion where the government suddenly at the last minute decided to avoid to impose as we line with the most severe of party or authorities. And I just want to point out that several of those who decided to sit out this vote but not those against the government.
Well, they apparently haven't yet been disciplined. And the spokesperson for Number 10 Downing Street have told us that, you know, it would be expected that ministers who voted against the government would be expected to resign. But, of course, we're not talking about people who voted against the government here, we're talking about people who decided to abstain.
So again, Theresa May, can't afford to lose a significant number or people inside her cabinet. That nearly toppled toward the end of last year. And so, the question really is how much authority does she have within her own government, and within her own cabinets tonight.
She suffered another significant defeat. She's going into another very important vote tomorrow, one which is very unclear in terms of the timeframe that she would look for, that she might get. And also where the Brussels are not all decide to play ball on this.
But for the moment here, when it comes to Theresa May standing inside Number 10 Downing Street, again her authority is diminished not just because of the way how Parliament voted against her over the last few votes, but also the way how some key ministers have been absent on the front bench over the last two day. She herself has been absent from the front doorstep of Number 10 Downing Street when she's entered and exited the building, and now a number of these key cabinet ministers have been allowed to abstain from this vote. And we'll not apparently face consequences. That, of course, continue to exacerbate the friction between the US skeptic party by party, and also those who have different points of view on how to go from here, whether or not to go for another referendum, whether or not to go for a people's vote if you like, or whether or not to go for a significant delay.
And there may be some people who may say at this point, it's worth not voting for a withdrawal bill when she brings it back a third time just out of spite, Richard.
QUEST: All right.
GORANI: OK, Nina dos Santos, thanks very much. Nadhim Zahawi is a Conservative MP. He supported Brexit. He joins us now. Bianca Nobilo is still with us.
And Mr. Zahawi, this evening you voted how?
NADHIM ZAHAWI, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP: So I voted against the government. I'm a minister for children and families, and so I voted to keep no deal on the table, because I think that it's important to allow the Prime Minister as much leverage in her negotiations as possible, and I voted for the -- what is called the Malthouse compromise, which is to offer the EU a longer period for supplemental, December 21.
GORANI: So you were on the losing side of two votes?
ZAHAWI: I certainly were was.
GORANI: Bad night for you.
ZAHAWI: And last night too. But I think it's unfortunate. I think Parliament actually needs to come together and decide whether it wants to honor the instruction of the British people from their referendum.
GORANI: But the government is not honoring, by putting forward these motions, the instruction of the British of the British Parliament.
ZAHAWI: Well, the government is putting forward what the government thinks is the right thing to do, which to withdraw from the E Union as orderly manner as possible. Because as part of sit tonight, colleagues have to decide, no matter what happens. You know, if you're going to ask for an extension tomorrow or the next day, the first thing, the first question you have to answer is, how long do you an extension for, and for what reason. You know, you're asking for an extension for the sake of an extension or do you have an agreement that you can all get behind and deliver on the withdrawal.
QUEST: Well, I'll say you're a moderate Brexiter, but the extreme Brexiters may well have done themselves in here because they have been so stubbornly against just like everything the government has put forward. That (inaudible) smogs of this world are about to see their Brexit, and your Brexit, go. It's going to be -- with the long extension, frankly, you know as well as I do, a longer extension increases the possibility that Brexit never happens.
ZAHAWI: Well, you're quite right. I mean, the argument that I have been making is, if you were a Brexiter as I was and campaign for Brexit, and you want to see a good outcome. I deliver on the promise you made to British people, then you need to have a withdrawal agreement, and if you don't, what we could end up is, as you say, are the no Brexit, a very, you know, different Brexit to watch the people actually voted for.
All options are bad, I think. I think which is why by the way, if you look at it, the Prime Minister currently is being backed by the country. She's riding high in the polls but it's her own approval rating and the party.
[16:50:02] We're 10 points ahead of Labor. Why, because the nation feels she's being moderate. She's trying to do the right thing and deliver the best outcome possible, was you know, delivering on the promise that she made to the British people.
GORANI: Will she put her deal to Parliament a third time next week?
ZAHAWI: Well, let's see what happens tomorrow and then of course what happens next week. Because ultimately, as she said, no matter what you ask for in terms of extension, you need to know that you can back a deal.
GORANI: But she has to before going to Europe, to Brussels, right?
NOBILO: But also, the notion that we've seen published tonight from the government which will be debated tomorrow, has three parts to it. So it knows what happened over the last two days.
Then the second option is to accept the Prime Minister's deal, and then ask the EU for an extension of up until around the 30th of July.
ZAHAWI: June.
NOBILO: I mean, June. So that would be the first option. So the Prime Minister would obviously have to bring her deal back for that. And third option would be noting the fact that the Prime Minister's deal does not go through, and then having to ask the EU for an extension over longer period of time and recognizing that they would have to be a clear reason to do that. Both of those things need to be agreed by the 20th of March.
QUEST: Just a quick one. Sir, is there not tonight a constitutional crisis in Britain, where the government has lost control of the House and no one knows what's happening next?
ZAHAWI: Well, I think the government is trying to do the right thing by convincing the House that we need to deliver on the promise of the referendum because otherwise for mainstream politicians, if they I think not deliver Brexit, and the second part of that extension I think takes us through a European election, where we have to take part. I think mainstream forces will be punished, I think you would unleash forces that none of us know where this ends up. GORANI: Yes. Nadhim Zahawi, Conservative MP, thank you, and member of the May government. Thank you very much for joining us. A quick break on CNN, we'll be right back.
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GORANI: Welcome back. Let's get final thoughts from Carole Walker, our Political Analyst. Richard quest is here. I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for joining us for continued coverage of this Brexit vote. And really a big defeat once again for the Prime Minister and the government.
WALKER: Yet another setback for the beleaguered Prime Minister and some really chaotic scenes, and a lot of anger amongst MP and ministers about the way events have been handled tonight.
[16:55:09] What happened was that the government whips the business manager seem to fail to foresee the possibility of a vote going through, even though a motion along those lines had already gone through previously.
The Prime Minister then tried at the last minute to whip for her MPs against the statement that says that the UK can't leave the EU without a deal. Handful of very senior cabinet ministers abstained, refuse to go along with that. And there is no further chaos and confusion. We've just seen the motion that MPs will vote on tomorrow, that is basically the Prime Minister acknowledging what's happened.
QUEST: How deep tonight is the crisis?
WALKER: I think it is a very serious political crisis because it is just over two weeks, 16 days, until the United Kingdom leaves the European Union. And at the moment there is no clear pathway as to exactly what is going to happen.
What seems clear now is that the Prime Minister is going to try to bring back her deal which has already been comprehensively defeated twice over. She's going to try to bring that back next week before she goes to the European Council with a threat--
GORANI: Yes.
WALKER: hanging -- with a threat term piece, look, if you pass this, we can have a short delay and we can leave the European Union. If not, it's long delay.
GORANI: But we're learning, Carole, she's not headed to Europe to renegotiate. This is a new development. So it will be the same deal.
QUEST: Carole, thank you.
GORANI: Hoping the math changes in her favor, I'm sure, the Prime Minister and our government.
That's going to do it for us for now. I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching our special coverage. QUEST: Thank you very much, indeed. Hala, I'll see you next week for MV3, Meaningful Vote 3.
GORANI: Yes.
QUEST: Because (inaudible) is not stops, neither do we. This is "CNN TODAY" coming up next.
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