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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN International: Horrific Pair Of Mass Shootings Carried Out In New Zealand. Aired: 8-9a ET
Aired March 15, 2019 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
ISA SOARES, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: I am Isa Soares in London and you are joining us for Breaking News coverage of a horrific pair of mass shootings carried out in New Zealand. A 28-year-old man has been charged with murder following what the Prime Minister called extraordinary and an unprecedented act of violence.
Now, this happening at Christchurch as worshippers gathered for Friday prayers. Those mosques became the scenes of two mass shootings with scores killed and wounded. You'll see there in your map, Masjid al Noor mosque there.
This is what we know, four people have been arrested including the suspect who has been charged. Now, police are trying to determine if the other three are actually connected with the attack.
Both New Zealand's and Australia's Prime Minister confirmed that one of the alleged gunman is an Australian born citizen.
Now, during the attack, one gunman worse a body cam and livestreamed the despicable act on Facebook. Police are urging people to stop sharing it on social media. Several platforms however have removed the content to the extent that they can, others are still keeping it up.
At least 49 people have died in that attack. Dozens of others are seriously injured including young children. An attack that happened during Friday prayers. And right now, about 350 kilometers south of Christchurch, police are searching an area of interest in the town of Dunedin. They have evacuated surrounding properties.
New Zealand's Prime Minister, Jacinda Ardern gave an update earlier, take a listen to what she had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LUCINDA ARDERN, PRIME MINISTER, NEW ZEALAND: It is clear that this can now only be described as a terrorist attack. From what we know, it does appear to have been well planned. Two explosive devices attached to suspects' vehicles have now been found and they have been disarmed.
There are currently four individuals who have been apprehended, but three are connected to this attack who are currently in custody. One of which, has publicly stated that they were Australian born.
These are people who I would describe as having extremist views that have absolutely no place in New Zealand and in fact, have no place in the world. While we do not have any reason to believe at this stage that there are any other suspects, we are not assuming that at this stage --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Well, I want to bring in Radio New Zealand reporter, Sally Round, she is on the line from Wellington, and Sally, I just want to ask you first of all, about this police searching this area of interest in Dunedin. We've been told they've evacuated surrounding areas, surrounding properties. What do you know?
SALLY ROUND, REPORTER, RADIO NEW ZEALAND (via phone): Look, we are going right into the middle of the night here in New Zealand and we just know that at the moment that that property on some of those streets in Dunedin which is possibly linked to the shootings, there are police attending that incident.
SOARES: Let's go back if we can, I know it's very late there where you are, give us a sense of how this has affected and impacted New Zealand -- a heinous act -- on everyone really, on Muslims in the country, but also on ordinary Kiwis.
ROUND: Yes, well, you could say that New Zealand really is in a state of shock. I mean, people are stopping on the streets and talking about it. You can see people huddled over their phones. In Christchurch, particularly, this has been a scene of tragedy in the last decade. Two earthquakes and now this.
What is happening at the moment there in Christchurch, the hospital is working overtime. There are 48 patients with gunshot wounds. They are being treated at the hospital there. People have obviously gone back to their homes and you could say that the people are probably not going to be getting much sleep tonight, although the police are doing their utmost to ensure that they are on top of things.
They've put a lot of resources, moved police down into the area around Christchurch and trying to assure people that they have the situation in hand.
SOARES: Is there a sense, Sally, where you are that people are just fearful to go out?
ROUND: I'm talking to you from Wellington at the moment, it's hard to tell.
[08:05:01]
ROUND: We're going into -- it's late at night here. Obviously, people in Christchurch were in lockdown at 6:00 p.m., I think the schools were vacated and people were allowed to go home. I think people probably just did want to go straight home, but others were gathering at corners and so on, waiting to hear news about loved ones. So -- but, yes, definitely people are in shock here.
SOARES: Sally Round there for us. Thanks very much, Sally. I want to go to journalist, Bliss Savidge who is in Christchurch and she joins us now, Bliss, give me a sense of where we are first of all with the investigation.
BLISS SAVIDGE, JOURNALIST: So all we know right now is there is one man who has been charged with murder, in his late 20s and he will be having his first court appearance tomorrow morning, Saturday morning local time.
There are three other people who were arrested, and one has been said that they are not related to this incident, but the other two are still being held right now. So that's where we are right now, and we're in front of the Christchurch Hospital.
SOARES: And I'll talk to you -- I lost you about the hospital in just a second -- but what do we know about this man? This one individual that has already been charged.
SAVIDGE: There is not a lot that they are officially releasing. There is a lot of report initially that this man was an Australian national and the Prime Minister of Australia confirmed that he was a citizen of Australia.
The New Zealand Police are now kind of being pretty tight lipped about the information and all they're officially releasing is that it is man is in his late 20s.
SOARES: Let's talk about those who have been affected. Well, 49 dead, 48 being treated in hospital for gunshot wounds and that includes children. What more do we know about the condition of those in the hospital behind you?
SAVIDGE: So what I'm hearing is that of course, like you said, there are over 40 people who are being treated at this hospital and some hospitals nearby. One person has already passed away. There's as many as 12 operating rooms going at one time. Of course, people needing multiple surgeries, some injuries ranging from just minor to, of course, very critical. So there's still a lot happening here.
In front of the hospital, you see some armed guards. There's certainly a lot of security. People coming out, very quiet over here, though. So that's what we have right now.
SOARES: And I know it's early in the morning, it's seven minutes or so past one in the morning. You said there is police there where you are. Are we seeing more police on the streets there of Christchurch given what has happened?
SAVIDGE: Definitely. Everywhere you look, it was difficult getting into the city center. There's a time of roadblocks. You do see armed guards here, which is very unusual for New Zealand. Police don't typically carry weapons here on their persons.
So that definitely is very unusual here to see guards with very large guns guarding entrances to hospitals and a lot of streets blocked off. And certainly, a lot of people stayed in and a lot of businesses are closed.
Soar There's been -- we've talked a great deal about those killed on Dean's Avenue, the mosque on Dean's Avenue. Talk to us, Bliss about those seven that have died in Lynwood Avenue. What actually took place? What do you know that took place in that mosque?
SAVIDGE: Yes, there's still not a lot of official information on that one. I think the report, there are seven confirmed dead from that mosque, but there's been no report of if that person was directly connected to this man -- oh, he was connected to this man, but whether that person -- I don't have any more official information on that. They're certainly focused on the other mosque where the more than 40 people were killed.
SOARES: And just for clarity, Bliss, do we know what time one of those attacks happened? What the time difference were between those two attacks or whether it was the same person going to both, attacking both mosques, just at different times?
SAVIDGE: Yes, we're still not sure about that. It is 1:40 is when the law enforcement got the first call that there was an active shooter at the first mosque, but unsure about the second mosque and whether it was the same person.
SOARES: And, of course, just for our viewers to get a sense of the time, 1:40 in the afternoon in Christchurch, this was happening during Friday prayers, a time when people go to pray. They have their own time to reflect. They felt safe in those mosques. This is a time for reflection, yet something hideous and horrific happened there.
Talk to us, how this has shaken, really, Christchurch, a very -- a community that's very well loved, well known right around the world for its open society, open embraced to migrants and refugees right around the world.
SAVIDGE: Yes, I mean, I don't think you can say it enough just how shocked everyone is here. I mean, not only is this a city where there's not a lot of gun violence, this is a city and a country where there's not a lot of violent crimes in general. So I think that's just really tough for people to kind of wrap their minds around.
[08:10:07]
SAVIDGE: Everybody here, when you talk about mass shootings and Christchurch in one sentence, the people who live here can't even fathom it. It doesn't seem comprehendible to them.
So I think that's really tough for everyone to swallow it and accept as a reality that this can happen in their own backyard.
SOARES: Bliss, you mentioned the gun violence. What are the rules in terms of how easy is it to get to buy guns and have access to guns in New Zealand? SAVIDGE: New Zealand is one of the more stricter countries as far as
gun control goes. Certainly, guns -- it's not an anti-gun country, but guns for the most part in New Zealand are used for hunting and it is very difficult to get a gun --
SOARES: All right, thank you very much there, Bliss Savidge joining us from Christchurch, New Zealand at ten past one in the morning. Thank you very much, Bliss.
Well, earlier, my colleague George Howell spoke with a witness who was inside one of the mosques when the shooting started. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAN IBN IBRAHIM, WITNESS TO MOSQUE SHOOTING (via phone): I was actually praying inside the mosque. Like I was just -- I was inside of the mosque and it is big mosque and what happened like around 1:40 to 1:45, there was a -- like gunfire and sound was coming from the back side. Because I was inside.
So what happened is, like, there's a barricade in the middle. So if somebody gets inside by using the main door, they have to come inside like for -- they have to walk like maybe one minute. So what happened is like there was -- and at that door, two doors on the left side and the right side.
So when I heard that, like the sound is coming and I thought first of all, I thought maybe it's electric short circuit, something like that. And then, it was like continuously happening. So on the -- and on the right side, people were just coming out of the mosque by using that door on the right side door and we were just running towards the backside.
And there was -- a barricade was there while we had to jump out of the wall. And still, we were hearing the sound of the gun. It was continuously shooting for maybe 10 to 15 minutes. And later on, we used the backside and then came out on the other street.
And since then, the police -- we called to the police and went to -- and when I came to the street, I saw that one person got shot on his chest and ambulance came and the police came there. Doctor was taking care of him. So that time, I went to live on Facebook to explain actually what is happening.
And one more sad thing is like, it not only happened to this mosque. There's two mosques in the Christchurch area, in two suburbs, so one in Riccarton, Deans Avenue and I called to my other friends who went to prayer to the other mosque and we asked them, they said like, "The same thing happened here as well." And they told me like five people died out there in that mosque.
And I have seen on my naked eyes, which is three people died, they were, like on the street and I couldn't contact two of my friends who are inside the mosque, as well. That's what I saw and later on, there are lots of police and ambulance came and they didn't allow us to go inside the mosque or to get close to it. GEORGE HOWELL, ANCHOR, CNN: Mohan Ibrahim is on the phone with us.
Sharing a story of survival. Mohan, you were able to escape this. And Mohan, I just want to make sure that I understand, you say that this went on for some 15 minutes, is that correct?
IBRAHIM: About -- it would be minimum of 10 minutes.
HOWELL: Oh, gosh. And you were able to get out and escape. You say that you saw people who certainly were --
IBRAHIM: Yes, I couldn't see them. I couldn't see them because -- you know, it's -- so, on later on, like, I heard like -- you know, there was there was a mob people shooter. And those gun sound was so loud. And when I came to the street from the mosque maybe a good say 780 -- 800 millimeter, I still heard the sound.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOARES: Wow. Continuous shooting as you heard there from one of the people inside that mosque as you heard for 10 to 15 minutes. Before we go to break, I just want to bring a tweet in from U.S. Secretary of State. "My condolences to the grieving families of victims in Christchurch, New Zealand. No one should've to face such violence in their place of worship. The American people mourn this tragedy together with our friends in New Zealand." That from Mike Pompeo. We'll have much more after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:15:09]
SOARES: Welcome back. Now, cities around the world are stepping up security around places of worship following deadly attacks on two mosques in New Zealand, in two mosques in Christchurch, in specific. That includes London, San Francisco and cities in France.
Now, police say at least 49 people were killed in mass shootings in Christchurch on Friday. Dozens of others were hospitalized, including 20 people with serious injuries. The British Parliament has held a minute of silence for the victims of this morning's - Friday morning and police say four people were later arrested, including one who is an Australian citizen.
We don't know any more about that man, that particular man, but we're going now to Anna Coren who is in Hong Kong for us, and Anna, I suppose at this point, we're all trying to find out more about who this individual is, this man who has been charged with murder. What are you hearing about who he might be?
ANNA COREN, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, New Zealand police have said that he is a 28-year-old Australian man. We know the Australian media outlets are reporting that he went to a place called Grafton for high school. Now, this is in country New South Wales in Northern New South Wales.
Once again, another sort of sleepy town where gun violence is unheard of, but that is the extent of what we know about this man who reigned terror on New Zealand. We also understand that he only arrived in New Zealand a short time ago.
So this is somebody who hasn't been in the country for very long. I think what is fair to say and we heard from the police commissioner that this was well-planned. And there is no denying how strategic he was.
He operated with precision. This is somebody who has had training, who knows how to use firearms and watching the 17-minute video that he streamed live on Facebook, on social media, it was evident, clearly evident that this was a person who knew exactly what he was doing.
SOARES: Anna, I hope to go back to you later in the show because I want to talk in more detail about that particular video that you were talking about that was live streamed on Facebook for 17 minutes or so. Anna Coren for now in Hong Kong, thank you, Ann. I'll speak to you a bit later in the show.
But first, now I want to go to Emma Cropper who joins us from Christchurch, a journalist on the ground. Emma, give us a sense of what is happening, where we were in the investigation. I think -- I don't know if you heard our correspondent there, Anna Coren say that one is clear, this was extremely well-planned, premeditated attack.
EMMA CROPPER, JOURNALIST, NEWSHUB: Well, police took four people into custody several hours ago here in New Zealand.
What we know is within the last couple of hours, police have actually centered on a property in Dunedin about four hours south of where we are here in Christchurch. You see that this is a location of interest and they believe that it is linked to the firearms incident that took place here in Christchurch this evening.
And they have charged the 28-year-old man with murder. He will appear at the local courthouse here in around eight to ten hours and they still currently have got two other people in custody who they will be speaking with this evening trying to figure out what their role in this has been, if anything at all, and if they are linked to the man that they have charged with murder in New Zealand here this evening.
SOARES: And what do we know, Emma, about those three individuals, those two that are still in custody, that man who has been charged with murder and is going to appear in court tomorrow?
CROPPER: We're still learning details about that and he will appear in our courthouse here in New Zealand. We do have quite strict suppression rules around people when they do appear in a court here in New Zealand, so it is likely that, unsure of what will happen when he does appear.
It's likely, it could be quite a brief appearance. It is likely to be attended by quite a heavy amount of media presence. As for those two people, we can't say too much about who they are. We're not too sure at the moment. Police are working through those details to figure out exactly what role they had in this, if anything in this, but we do know that, we understand they have been found with firearms.
SOARES: And I believe that New Zealand's threat level has been raised. Talk to us about the mood right now in Christchurch and if you can, perhaps what investigators have said today, in the early hours of today regarding the fact that this individual was in no watch list, at least not in New Zealand and not in Australia.
CROPPER: Yes, well, they are raising that threat level to high here in New Zealand and that shows how unprecedented this attack is, because that is actually the first time in our country's history that that has ever happened and that is why, not only here in Christchurch, but around New Zealand, everyone is in such shock and belief about what has happened.
It was just in the afternoon that the gunman entered these two mosques and killed these -- allegedly killed these 48 people here. And everyone, they just can't believe it. I actually grew up here in Christchurch and I lived just a block away from one of those mosques and nothing like this would ever, ever happen.
It is absolutely shocking what has gone on. We consider this country to be safe, to be a quiet country, and for anything like this to go on and happen here in our backyard is just not what we expect at all.
SOARES: Emma Cropper there for us in Christchurch, New Zealand, thanks very much, Emma.
Now police say none of the people detained, as you heard there, has been on a terror list, watch list. Officials are not ready to talk about that possible note just as yet, but a social media account believed to belong to one of them had a link to a political manifesto.
The document riles against Muslims and immigrants, really a hate- filled rant. One of those suspects is expected in court as you heard a bit earlier, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE BUSH, NEW ZEALAND POLICE COMMISSIONER: I would like to also add that so far, one person, a male in his late 20s, has been charged with murder and should appear in the Christchurch court tomorrow morning.
Three other people were apprehended. We believe one of those persons who was armed and was at -- and whilst at the same -- may have had nothing to do with this incident and the two other people that have been apprehended, again, in possession of firearms in the general environment, we are working through to understand what their involvement is.
We have recovered a number of firearms from both of the scenes, Lynwood Avenue and Deans Avenue. I would like to assure everyone around New Zealand that every available police and emergency resource with other government agents and defense force are doing everything they can to keep our community safe.
We have had no other threats since we responded to this incident. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SOARES: Let's get more talk about this and this attack in more detail. We're joined now by Levi West from Cranberry, Australia. He is the Director of Terrorism Studies at the Australian Graduate School Policing and Security at Charles Sturt University. He also works closely with Australia's counterterrorism agencies.
Levi, thank you for joining us. There are so many questions that we have not been able to get answers from. First of all, how do you understand these attacks to have taken place?
[08:25:06]
SOARES: Because we're talking about two separate locations and we're talking about three individuals. What can you tell us?
LEVI WEST, DIRECTOR OF TERRORISM STUDIES, AUSTRALIAN GRADUATE SCHOOL POLICING AND SECURITY, CHARLES STURT UNIVERSITY: Yes. Certainly, from -- I've only seen what anyone in the press has reported, but from what the official statement suggests is that the primary gunman got into the first mosque, spent a good deal of time there undertaking a rampage.
And then from what I've read so far seems to have visited the second mosque and then continued his rampage there.
As you heard the ground just now, it seems that the police on the scene are unclear as to what the other two people's involvement was, if they were involved was, if they were involved.
So it seems that I think that for those who have had to sit through the video, that he livestreamed, it gives you a fairly good idea of what he was doing and what his intentions were. So it seems to be two locations and primarily firearms.
One of the witnesses has claimed that he saw him firing outside of the mosque on his way to the second mosque. So that seems to be the primary essence of it.
SOARES: Yes, and, of course, just for our viewers to get a sense, we're not going to air that video. We're not going to give them a platform. It is a heinous attack. We do not need to see it. But Levi, I want to go back to you. What you're saying is perhaps it's one individual going to that first mosque, then going to the second mosque killing 41 people first in that first mosque in Deans Avenue and then going to Lynwood Avenue and killing seven people in that mosque.
Talk to us about the level of planning here, Levi. Very well planned, premeditated attack, would you say?
WEST: Oh, almost certainly. Certainly, given the challenges of obtaining firearms both in Australia and New Zealand, this is not the sort of thing that you can just sort of pick up this afternoon and decide what you're going to do. He has certainly -- and if we treat his manifesto as vaguely legitimate, then his version is that about two years ago, while he was traveling, he had this sort of moment where he decided that the he was going to do something.
And then a few months ago, he decided and firmed up a little more around what that was going to be, and from his manifesto, it seems that the target decision was that a mosque fit the bill. It was going to be another mosque and then he changed his mind, again, if we take his manifesto as gospel.
With a semi-automatic weapon inside an enclosed building, it's not a particularly challenging exercise to do what he did. It doesn't necessarily reflect a level of skill, per se. Everyone in the building is contained within the walls and it's not a particularly challenging exercise.
One of the things that's quite curious about it is that his manifesto reads very much like he did it by himself and he was very much a lone actor so to speak. And the fact that one of those three other people have been detained by the New Zealand Police has already been established as not having anything to do with the incident suggests that perhaps those second and third members that have been detained may also not have been anything -- something to do with it because the manifesto reads very much like a one-man operation and tactically, the attack is a one-man operation. It's a guy with a firearm.
SOARES: I was going to ask you, I mean, you're talking about, it doesn't need a lot of skill, Levi, but we are talking about the fact that there were cars also rigged with IEDS, weren't there?
WEST: Yes. This is true.
SOARES: I mean, does that point to a greater plan at work that he wasn't able to undertake?
WEST: Yes, I mean, again, constructing an EID even with the readily available instructions that you can find on the internet is a little more difficult than more terrorists think that it is.
So -- and that would suggest to me in his manifesto, Breivik is what he identifies in Norway as his primary influence and what I would hazard to guess is that detonating those explosives and in following that up with a firearm attack is a literal copycat of the baseline tactic that Breivik used in Norway. So I suspect that is what he was seeking to do.
You know, constructing an IED may suggest that one or two of those other people was involved, but not necessarily. I'm sure the New Zealand police have identified a dwelling, I think they said, in Christchurch or Dunedin that they're focusing on. I think that and the digital footprint that's associated with him because his manifesto is clearly heavily influenced by online trick, he will have a substantial digital footprint which will reveal an awful lot more about what he thought he was doing and what he believed in. But his manifesto is pretty clear. He is a white supremacist and a fascist, so that's really something that is dreadful. SOARES: And it's a hateful rant, isn't it? On that point, I want to
ask you something else, so if you're an investigator, what will you be looking at, at this stage?
[08:30:01]
WEST: Yes, so physical evidence will be the first protocol and then it will be digital evidence. So any laptops, computers, phones, all types of devices that they find at his property or on him. We are fairly conditioned with terrorist attacks to not think of the perpetrator surviving.
So the other thing that they'll be doing is he'll be getting interviewed. And that -- and, again, if his manifesto is what he genuinely believes, then he intended to survive this. He wants to go to court and in much the same way that Breivik did, insist on saying that, "No, no, no, I believe in the things that I wrote down and that's why I did it."
And so if he is interviewed and the Court process will be revelatory in terms of that kind of evidence, but you know, standard investigative procedure, digital evidence and physical evidence, and more firearms or devices they find at the property, but particularly phones and computers, you know, contemporary counterterrorism investigations are informed heavily by digital devices.
SOARES: Yes, the digital aspect of this investigation is key, isn't it? Levi West there for us. Thank you very much. Appreciate you taking your time to speak with us here on CNN.
WEST: Thank you.
SOARES: And in just a moment, we continue our coverage of events in Christchurch where 49 people were killed at two mosques in the city in New Zealand's worst ever mass shooting. We'll have much more when after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOARES: I'm Isa Soares in London. It was called an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence. Those words, not mine, but from New Zealand's Prime Minister, used to describe the two mass shootings at mosques in the city of Christchurch on Friday.
This is what we know, the shootings were carried out as worshippers gathered for Friday prayers and here is what we know right now at this hour. At least 49 people are dead. Dozens are seriously wounded, including young children.
Many people being treated for gunshot wounds at hospitals. One of the attackers wore a body cam and livestreamed the entire massacre on Facebook. Now, CNN has chosen not to show the footage and police are urging people to stop sharing it on social media.
Now, one suspect charged with murder is due to appear in court on Saturday. That's according to the police commissioner. He's one of four people detained after the attack. Police are now trying to determine whether the other three had any involvement in this mass shootings.
The Prime Ministers of both New Zealand and Australia say that one of the gunmen is an Australian born citizen and right now about 350 kilometers south of Christchurch, police are searching an area of interest in the town of Dunedin. They are evacuating in fact surrounding properties there.
[08:35:02]
SOARES: Now, New Zealand is a nation not used to these hate crimes, let alone attacks of this magnitude. Sadly, the same cannot be said for many other parts of the world.
I want to bring our chief international correspondent, Clarissa Ward and Clarissa, you have been looking at the manifesto that was posted online. Give us a sense, any parallels that you've gained from what you're reading there to ISIS, to the rise of extremism in Europe that I know you've covered in great detail.
CLARISSA WARD, CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: So, I mean, this is quite a tow. It's 87 pages. It's essentially a self- interview. Police believe this is indeed, the work of the primary suspect in this attack.
And we see a lot of what you would expect to see in terms of these very bitter, ugly right wing or far right wing tropes and memes that have become so prevalent on the internet. He talks a lot about this idea of an invasion that is happening with Muslim migrants arriving in western countries.
He talks about the idea of replacement because Muslims are reproducing at a faster rate than white people. And so we do see this language has been used a lot by right wing attackers, particularly he appears to have been inspired by Anders Breivik, who of course, famously, the Norwegian fascist who killed 77 people on an island off of Norway.
And when he talks about Anders Breivik, he talks specifically about this group, the Knights of Templar. He says that this attack was carried out with the blessing of the reborn Knights of Templar. Now, obviously, something investigators will be looking into now is, is this a real group? Is this more of an idea? Is this a lone wolf? Is this an actual network of people who are working together to facilitate these kinds of attacks?
Certainly, this attack looked like it took a significant amount of planning and coordination. These are the kinds of things that we are looking into, but something that I found interesting, Isa, that we had just been discussing is how much of the language that he uses is similar not only to the language of the far right, which one would expect, but also similar to the language that we've seen from ISIS, for example.
SOARES: And would that be the first time that you've seen -- I mean, unfortunately we've covered too much terrorist attacks in Europe and right around the world, but would this be the first time you're seeing that correlation, the use of language that we've seen in ISIS attacks in these sorts of attacks?
WARD: I think this blatantly and on this level, when you talk about the Knights of Templar, you're talking about the Crusades. What does ISIS call westerners? Calls them Crusaders. When you talk about the idea of replacement and the idea of what he says is that he is trying to provoke a retaliation here. He is trying to stoke tensions, to precipitate conflict, to create a clash of civilizations.
That is textbook ISIS' idea of the elimination of what they call the gray zone. Also textbook Al Qaeda's original manifesto, if you like, the management of savagery, the idea that by carrying out these wanton acts of vicious violence, of brutal terrorism, that you somehow escalate tensions and conflict to a stage whereby Muslims can no longer coexist with westerners in the west and vice versa.
And so it's interesting to me that there is almost a symbiotic relationship happening now between extreme terrorists on the far right and between some of these other terrorist organizations that perhaps we're more familiar with.
SOARES: In many ways, it really is a hate-filled rant, isn't it? Eighty seven pages of it, right? It's important, we were talking about this in the earlier show, politicians, what we've seen in Europe, the rise of the far right in Europe, how much has that played in role in fueling these kind of rants?
WARD: Well, I think if you talk to Muslims today, many of whom are afraid to go to Friday prayers today, to take their children to Friday prayers, what they will say to you and indeed what many people just watching what's happening is that in addition to the very real threat and concern of these vicious far right terrorists or terrorist affiliated groups, there is the idea that some of these rhetoric has become mainstream in public discourse, in political discourse.
You read about this idea of the invasion and you read about the idea of replacement and you think to yourself, hold on a second, we've heard these words. We've heard them sometimes from the President of the United States, we've heard them coming from far right governments here in Europe, whether it be Hungary, whether it be Italy.
And so what happens? What is the logical effect when you mainstream main stream that kind of rhetoric that typically belonged in the domain of far right ideology that was considered taboo to even give airing to. And now, when we went -- when we were giving this big project on anti-Semitism, we went to Germany.
We were in Berlin, it's a liberal capital and on the streets, you had hundreds and hundreds of far right protesters giving air to these ideas, no longer feeling that it is a taboo ...
[08:40:10]
WARD: ... to speak about things like this in public and public discourse invariably sets the tone. There is not necessarily a clear linkage in terms of causality. Not everybody who hears this kind of rhetoric picks up a gun and goes and kills 49 people in a mosque.
But you can't look at one without looking at the broader environment in which it is thriving.
SOARES: I think we definitely need to look at the rise that we're seeing of Islamophobia that is something that we've seen definitely picking up and politicians not just in the U.S., but also here in Europe and indeed in Brazil, they all have responsibility here. Clarissa Ward, thank you very much.
Of course, we'll have much more coming up on the New Zealand attacks, including a look at the role social media, Clarissa was mentioning in there, may have played. We'll have much more after this short break.
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SOARES: Now as the investigation continues in today's New Zealand mosque attacks, investigators are looking into the role social media may have played. An account that reportedly belonged to a suspect contained a link to an 87-page anti-Muslim manifesto, which is what we were just talking about just before the break with our chief international correspondent.
An apparent video of one of the attacks was livestreamed on Facebook. Facebook has issued a statement condemning the attack as a horrendous act. It says and you're reading on your screen, it quickly removed the suspected shooter's Facebook and Instagram accounts, as well as the video. Facebook says, it is also removing any praise or support for the attack and it says it will continue working with the New Zealand police as the investigation continues.
Our CNN technology correspondent, Samuel Burke has been looking at this angle of the story for us. Apology from Facebook. Did it go -- is it going far enough in terms of its role? Has it been able to remove this? Given the fact that this video from this 28-year-old or 29-year-old man who carried this attack who has been charged for murder was live streamed?
SAMUEL BURKE, TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT, CNN: The apology is to be expected. It's always there. There are many cases where the live streaming platform has been involved in these types of attacks, but I do just want to connect the dots to what Clarissa Ward was telling you before the break.
She was talking about this manifesto that's been posted online and in that manifesto, you see how social media had influenced this attacker and clearly from this video that was livestreamed, you can see that livestreaming was part of the plan of this attack.
SOARES: What do you mean by that? How it influenced the attackers? What specifically?
BURKE: You can see people who are prevalent and unfortunately relevant on social media being referenced in this manifesto, and then you can see how the attacker wants to really push this on. Now, what you're seeing right here is an example of what is still on
social media right now. So yes, this was livestreamed. It makes it very hard to take something down before people can see this livestream, because obviously, it's happening live, in real-time.
But what we're still seeing at this very moment, Isa, is the video up on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube. Now, it doesn't says, this is taken down, it says, "This video may show violent or graphic content." Then you click that link in the lower right-hand corner, "Uncover video."
And you can still watch the video. So I just want to put up on the screen exactly what we know. The facts here about the role of social media in this attack starting with the fact that Facebook says they took the video down quickly. Well, quickly is a relative --
SOARES: Is that hours? Is that during? Is that --
BURKE: It doesn't appear, but we don't know because Facebook won't tell us. It doesn't appear that they took the video down while it was happening live. So that means there it was sitting for people to download and share it.
Now, we also know the video is still up, one of the accounts that shared the video since has 700,000 followers on Twitter, Isa.
On top of that, just watching this video will help spread the hate. People say don't share the video. No, don't even watch the video on social media. The more you watch it on social media, that tells the algorithms, we'll keep on sharing this video to more people. Clearly, it's popular.
[08:45:08]
BURKE: You're helping radicalize other people by watching this video, terrorist experts say and finally, it appears that some TV broadcasters have decided to put this out.
The problem with that is, once a broadcaster, a news organization, of course, we wouldn't air that here on CNN, once a news broadcaster decides to do that, that video can be posted on social media. Once there are news graphics, like the type that you're seeing right below here, that tells the algorithms, well, a journalist has decided to air this. This has these news banners. Let's keep these up until a human decides to take this down and that cycle of violence which likely helped play a role from social media to this attacker now continues on social media to the next attacker.
SOARES: So it basically says it's a worthy story, it keeps it in the feed and you'll continue to see it, whether you like it or not.
BURKE: Sadly, that's how it is.
SOARES: Samuel Burke, thank you very much. Well, do stay right here on CNN. We'll have much more on our breaking news coverage just ahead. We'll also speak with a journalist in New Zealand to get her perspective as police are really trying to scramble for answers. That's just ahead.
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SOARES: If you're just joining us, let me bring you up to date, breaking news we've been following now for several hours here on CNN, the two mass shootings at two different mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. We know that 49 people have been killed, 48 people are being treated in hospital this hour, including children. Many of those with gunshot wounds. We know that three people have been taken into custody and one man in his 20s has been charged with murder is expected to appear in court tomorrow.
I want to get more on exactly what's happening on the ground. Chelsea Daniels joins me now via Skype from Auckland. She is a reporter with NewsTalk ZB. Chelsea, talk me through what you are hearing in terms of the investigation, and in particular, about this man who has been charged with murder. What more are you learning about him?
CHELSEA DANIELS, REPORTER, NZME (via Skype): Well, police haven't confirmed anything about the man at all, but as you know, and as you've been speaking about, as well, he livestreamed the killings online. So we know a little bit about him, a little bit about what he's posted online, as well.
There's a manifesto online. The Prime Minister of Australia, Scott Morrison, actually confirmed for us this afternoon that he is, in fact, Australian born and he does -- he moved here.
So there's little bits and pieces that we're finding out about this man in his late 20s, believed to be 28-year-old, Australian.
SOARES: What -- I mean, the fact that he's Australian, how will that be received in New Zealand in terms of the relation between both of those countries?
DANIELS: I think it's definitely going to create a strain here. We just recently -- Australia have been kind of kicking out New Zealand born criminals, people that have been in prison in Australia, but born in New Zealand.
[08:50:03]
SANIELS: There's been quite some fuss recently about Australia making the decision to kick them out and give them back to us. So I mean, just knowing that this man is Australian might put a strain on that relationship, but certainly nothing has been suggested as yet.
Scott Morrison has said -- given his condolences as have a number of other leaders around the world.
SOARES: Thank you very much there. Chelsea Daniels there from Auckland, New Zealand. Thanks for joining us.
Now just before we speak to Alex Thomas, we've just heard from Justin Trudeau, the Canadian Prime Minister. He says, "Attacking people during prayers is absolutely appalling and Canada strongly condemns today's shootings in New Zealand. Our thoughts and hearts go out to victims and their families. We join New Zealand as the Muslim communities around the world in grieving."
Now, members of the Bangladesh cricket team narrowly avoided the terror attacks in Christchurch. The team is visiting and arrived for Friday prayers just as the attack was unfolding.
"World Sport" Alex Thomas joins us now with more and Alex, what more do we know about, in fact, the team? How they're doing? Have you been able to speak on any of them?
ALEX THOMAS, HOST, WORLD SPORT: We haven't been able to get in touch with any of them. We know a couple of the players have tweeted out. We'll get to that in a second.
But an astonishing escape from the Bangladesh cricket team, in Christchurch, for the third of their three test match series against New Zealand. They were due to play at the Hagley Park Oval. And as we saw from that map that we were showing our viewers earlier, as I witnessed myself, because I was there barely more than a month ago. It's peaceful park in the center of Christchurch, still rebuilding from that huge earthquake only eight years ago, back in 2011.
And on the west side of the park is the Deans Avenue mosque that was one of the -- where one of the attacks happened and the Bangladesh cricket team pulled up in their coach, around 17 players and staff, minutes after the shooting started, watching as one said like a movie as victims staggered out covered in blood. They didn't know what to do. They ducked their heads down and realized they were trapped on the coach if the shooter should come out.
So they actually left the bus and made their way away and they're just so grateful they left. I mean, they got --
SOARES: Because the shooting was happening not just inside the mosque, he then came out and he also was shooting outside the mosque and that's what is important.
THOMAS: Exactly, so it may be a wise decision they left their coach. Tamim Iqbal, one of the opening batsman for Bangladesh tweeted out, "The entire team got saved from active shooters. Frightening experience. Please keep us in your prayers." And the whole world has been taking notes of this news, but particularly the sporting world.
That part of Christchurch devastated by the earthquake, a huge rugby area, too. So we've seen tweets from the New Zealand All Blacks, their world champion winning rugby team. And also one of their star players, a superstar sports star in New Zealand, Sonny Bill Williams, with a video. He is a devout Muslim himself. He converted to Islam some years ago.
That's the New Zealand All Blacks tweet there and Sonny Bill Williams video was just films into his phone. It floods of tears. So emotional.
SOARES: Thank you very much, Alex Thomas there. We will have much more on this story, of course, the worst mass shooting in New Zealand's history now claiming at least 49 lives.
We'll much more after this short break.
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[08:55:00]
SOARES: The Prime Minister of New Zealand called it one of the darkest days for the country, really, a nation shocked and rocked with the two attacks today at two different mosques in Christchurch.
Will Geddes joins me now. He is the managing director of International Corporate Protection Group. His job is also to advice businesses, as well as governments on anti-terrorism measures. And I've got so many questions, Will, and I hope he can go through them quickly.
When you look at what happened, was this premeditated? How well planned was this? Are we looking at one person or several people here?
WILL GEDDES, MANAGING DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL CORPORATE PROTECTION GROUP: Well, I think in the first place, yes and yes. It was well planned. It was well coordinated. Certainly, it was announced, albeit at the very last minute, we know that there were reports of postings, particularly this 74-page odd manifesto which was put actually up on a forum, a quite well-known forum in advance of the attack.
In terms of the preparedness by New Zealand, well, inevitably, it's like any country that has not got a long legacy of terrorism, where investment hasn't necessarily been made into the countermeasures to prepare themselves for it.
So this caught the New Zealand authorities pretty much unaware to a great degree.
SOARES: So what will the authorities be looking at, at this point?
GEDDES: Well, at the moment, there are four people in custody. There are three men and one woman. There is one man that is actually going to be charged and also presented in court tomorrow. The other three, I think, we're going to see over time as to whether they are relevant or not in terms of this whole situation or whether they were just in the circumstances of the local area when this attack or these attacks took place. But my feeling is potentially this could be a lone wolf attack.
SOARES: You think it's just one man carrying out these attacks, really heinous attacks. Will Geddes, we'll have to leave it here for now. I'm so sorry. That does it for us. We'll have much more on the breaking news coverage at the top of the hour. Do stay here with CNN. We are, of course, the world's news leader.
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