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CNN Live Event/Special
E.U Leaders Are In Brussels for An Emergency Summit. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired April 10, 2019 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. It is our number two of "Quest means business" and by all accounts together, you and I, we have a long night ahead of us as we go through the machinations of what this evening is.
Theresa May has now deliver her pitch, the Prime Minister has asked for a deadline extension until June the 30th. When she did so, she tried to convince them of all the reasons why that would be possible, but the E.U. leaders, the 27 are deliberating, and they are considering the possibility of a longer delay. Well, exactly how long, we're not sure. Theresa May has already pointed the finger of blame at the U.K. Parliament.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER, BRITISH: I have been working to make sure that we could leave the European Union. Indeed, we could have left the European Union by now, but parliament didn't pass the withdrawal agreement. So we need that extra time to work to ensure that we can get a deal through parliament that enables us to leave in a smooth and orderly way that is in everybody's interest. I think what matters is that we are able to leave the European Union at the point at which we ratify that withdrawal agreement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Right. So let's put this into perspective for you. It is now 10:00 at night here in Brussels. The E.U. leaders are still deliberating. The press over here has slowly, but surely increased to several hundred journalists, possibly a couple of thousand journalists who are here now.
The whereabouts of Theresa May are not entirely clear. She gave her talk, or answered questions and then disappeared while they have dinner. We think she may have gone back to the U.K. residence. The E.U. leaders are discussing the extension over dinner, and the Prime Minister is probably at the residence. She is certainly not there. And the announcement could come when? Erin is with me to help me make sense of it all. What are we hearing inside the room?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, at the moment, what's been lead to me is an updated version of the draft conclusion. This is a set of conclusions that the E.U. leaders are pouring over to try and figure out next steps in terms of the extension. It will be a final version of these conclusions will be the product of their deliberations tonight.
I received an updated copy that was updated out of the ambassadors' meeting last night. Several sections were beefed up, pushing the U.K. to provide more assurances which the French had been demanding, especially during the ambassadors' meeting last night.
QUEST: Let us swim into the deepest of all waters. How far are the French tonight being obstructionists in terms of demanding a toughest stance for the British?
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I'm told by one E.U. diplomat that the latest batch of conclusions that had been tabled prior to this council are likely not enough for the French. This diplomat was questioning what exactly the French want? What will satisfy the French? Other members don't even know the answer to that question.
QUEST: Why are the French being so belligerent on this? I mean, all the other leaders have their own interest and concern. Chancellor Merkel seems to be quite happy to go along with that which what people are there. So, what's annoying the French?
MCLAUGHLIN: The French seem to be concerned about their repercussions of a long-term extension. If you give the U.K. an extension to the end of December, if you give the U.K. an extension, say, to March, there are no guarantees that that is going to change the political dynamic and it comes with cost to the E.U.
Potentially has an impact on the parliamentary elections which are in May, and also could potentially impact the E.U's own internal decision, and it's not just the French that have concerns. I've been talking to other members of the European parliament. They're very worried about this as well, very worried about the U.K. importing its own divisions, its own toxic problems into the E.U. during the extension time period.
QUEST: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
All right. So, as between a rock and a hard place, whatever is that one about the Deep Blue State, a no-deal Brexit arguably would be far more catastrophic?
MCLAUGHLIN: Exactly. And that is where you get sort of more moderate voices like the president of the European council, Donald Tusk, pushing this extension -- extension sort of speak. It's an extension that could last until end of December, March.
QUEST: Right.
[16:05:04] MCLAUGHLIN: We're track as soon as withdrawal agreement is pass, it will give businesses certainty, it will give citizens more certainty, and it also allows the U.K. to make its own decisions, the political space to resolve its problems. That is why member states such as Germany don't just see this as the way to go, and that is why other member states prior to tonight's council, seemed to be moving in that direction.
QUEST: Erin and I are along, so far, it was supposed to end around 9:00. It's 10:00. So, good to see you. Get back to your area, find out what's actually happening. Thank you.
And Theresa May could actually have a more sympathetic audience. Hala is in Westminster. Hala, I'm very aware that while -- during all the talking here and everything is going here actually you probably hold the upper hand, because if she can't get into Westminster, it's wasted.
HALA GORANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, precisely. Whatever she comes back with is going to have to be supported by parliamentarians, members of the House of Commons in the building behind me. And that is not a given because there is so much division in this House. We saw it with the indicative votes, Richard. There was not a single alternative proposal to May's Brexit deal that was -- that got a majority.
So, just shows you that there is no momentum -- no majority momentum behind any alternative proposal, and certainly as we saw, Theresa May's deal was rejected. So, will the House of Commons support a much longer extension than the one that Theresa May is asking for? Bianca is here once again with me. You've been speaking to M.P.'s today and they've been telling you what about what's happening in Brussels?
BIANCA NOBILO, CNN PRODUCER: Not much. They've been asking me what I know because the board of Brussels is caught. They are just waiting to hear back. Impression that I've been getting particularly from M.P.'s is that they are sitting on their hands. They are very angry, a, that the Prime Minister is engaging in these cross-party talks, with Jerry Corbyn. Did they call him since he's unfit for government? They think she is given him credibility she doesn't deserve, in their opinion. And they're also angry, because now they feel like Britain has no agency in this.
Now that we exceeded that 29th of March deadline, now the E.U. knows that Britain isn't going to punch in some no-deal if they could do anything to stop that. What leverage is the U.K. left with? So, what I've been hearing is they're essentially sitting on their hands, knowing that they cross, but waiting to hear exactly what it is that she is coming back with.
GORANI: Here's the thing, the hard Brexiteers have basically lost the battle for a hard Brexit, haven't they? I mean it doesn't seem like that something --
NOBILO: They may have done, but even if we listen to Mark Francois (ph), who is a hard Brexiteer, he said he would try to be the Trojan horse within Europe.
GORANI: The E.U. are going to impose a setup conditions on the U.K. if they grant the country a very long extension that would prevent this type of thing.
NOBILO: The concern now is, you are absolutely right. That those are the strings that are being discuss to attach to any form of longer extensions, to make sure that Britain cooperates fairly during an interim period. The concern is now around the European elections. So, today it went into British law that there will be European elections in this country that the U.K. will fill candidates for them on the 23rd of May.
The worry is now the conservatives are not polling well. The government has not handled Brexit well, according to most voters, May is polling a little bit better. But the Brexit Party, which is a new brain job (inaudible) which has its official launch at the end of this week, is concerned that that party could do very well. The phrase that I keep hearing around Westminster is the notion of having 73 (inaudible) just in the European parliament which Britain has 73 seats in the European parliament. So that would be a concern as well for the E.U. which they can't cattle through conditions.
GORANI: Bianca Nobilo, thanks very much. We'll be hearing from you a lot more in the coming hours. Richard, quick question to you. Aren't E.U. leaders -- what are you hearing from sources there? Have they agreed on how long the extension should be, but not on the conditions, or have they agreed on neither the extension nor the conditions? Where are they now in their talks in that dinner during this extraordinary summit?
Well, I believe we've lost the connection with Richard, so we're back here in London. Bianca is here with me. So we are, of course, are keeping a close eye on what is going on in Brussels. Emmanuel Macron has said essentially that this is not an unconditional extension if indeed it does -- it is granted.
Angela Merkel slightly softer in her approach. E.U. leaders is currently all 27 of them sounds the U.K. and Theresa May are discussing these very important details. So, Bianca is still here with me as we're reconnect with Richard.
[16:10:00] A few technical problems there. Let's talk a little bit about this (inaudible) Nigel Farage, I believe or his side of the Brexit debate. What are they saying about what is going on in Brussels?
NOBILO: Well, the way that they see this now is they can almost claim victory from the jaws of defeat by filling their candidates in the European elections and specifically protesting the conservative vote in this elections. Just before we get into that, there was an interesting development in the last hours. So Jeremy Corbyn tweeted that (inaudible) the Irish leader has said that Labour's plan of a customs union with the future trade deals was a credible one.
This is an interesting, we know that a customs union, even though that it didn't get a majority in the votes was the most popular option, and of course, what we know Theresa May's team is discussing it with the Labour Party. So, what situation would that put the Prime Minister in if she was essentially left trying to execute a Brexit policy which was designed not by her, not by her government, but by the leader of the opposition. This is a government which is already struggling with the legitimacy given they can barely carry a confidence vote on anything.
GORANI: And also this is far from what Brexiteers want. They want out of this Customs Union, they want the U.K. to be an independent negotiator in future bilateral trade deals. When you are part of a customs union, you don't get that.
(CROSSTALK)
NOBILO: Exactly. An international trade secretary, a member of the Prime Minister's cabinet still at the moment wrote this letter saying that the customs union would be the worst of all worlds. So, it's an important point to raise, because it would just shows how there would be cabinet members that would have to resign in that event.
GORANI: Right. And if how, because we've had resignations from this cabinet. But how many more can she sustain before she needs to step down? And she is so weakened that she can't govern anymore?
NOBILO: Well, this is an open question. The government, given that it's a minority government, it depends on the Democratic Union's Party and its confidence in the supply arrangement, but the DUP haven't been providing that to the government. As you say, she has pled so many ministers, cabinet ministers, Jr. Ministers. She had five gaps two weeks ago that were then filled many days later.
It is truly unprecedented. If it were normal times and the Prime Minister had a majority government and they couldn't carry through their flagship policy, or they lost that amount of ministers, they would be in dire straits.
GORANI: Yes.
NOBILO: I think what it is, is that the threshold of Theresa May's leadership in terms of rallying ministers and members around her is so low, and she is been considered to be on borrowed time as a Prime Minister basically since the election in 2017, so inaccurately, but more nonetheless considered so. It means that she can almost afford these losses because they're priced into the notion of her leadership.
GORANI: All right. Bianca Nobilo, thanks very much. We await that Brexit decision from the 27 E.U. leaders gathered in an extraordinary summit in Brussels. Will they grant the U.K. an extension? If so, how long will that extension be and what strings will be attached to any of Brexit delay? Richard will be back with you in Brussels after a quick break. Stay with CNN.
[16:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Theresa May has made he pick. European leaders are deciding it rarely straight forward to get 27 people to do anything and going into summit, there are several schools of thought on display.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PRES. EMMANUEL MACRON, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translator): The
unity of the European project is still at stake. What's vital is that nothing compromises the European project in the months to come. We need to be leaving a European renaissance. I believe in it for family, and I do not want the topic of Brexit to hold us up.
ANGELA MERKEL, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): What is very important for me is the message that Britain is preparing for the European elections. This guarantees the functioning of the institutions of the European Union, and that is why in view of the historic responsibility we are facing, and in order to ensure good cooperation in the future, too, I think we should discuss the British Prime Minister's request openly and constructively.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Philippe Lamberts, the Belgian MVP had in greens here with me, good to see you.
PHILIPPE LAMBERTS, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER, BELGIUM: Good to see you.
QUEST: They're going to offer some sort of -- they're going to offer some sort of extension. What would you support?
LAMBERTS: Well, I guess at this point in time, a short extension would put additional pressure on the Prime Minister, but the likelihood that this pressure would work is actually very low. The track record of Theresa May shows that even under pressure, she feels to gather majority in Westminster. So probably the alternative to that is long extension in the hope that this will generates faithful -- to process to happen.
QUEST: But as the U.K. now takes part in the European election, how concerned are you that the U.K. return 70 yards Nigel Farage as somebody is saying.
LAMBERTS: It won't happen. It won't happen because not everyone in the United Kingdom wants to vote for the likes of Nigel Farage. So, I expect for instance, my green friends or my friends on this party -- national party or (inaudible) in Whales, to come out strengthened of the European election in the United Kingdom. So, you know, we might have some good news out of that election.
QUEST: At the end of the day, is it your feeling that the U.K. is going to leave the European Union?
LAMBERTS: It's really hard to say, but apparently there's no political will in the U.K. to pull the plug. That is what I have to observe every day in the United Kingdom.
QUEST: Well, they just don't know, and I wouldn't say that. They want to pull the plug, they're just not sure what to do after they've pulled it.
LAMBERTS: Yes probably. You're probably right. I think the (inaudible) 50-50, but then again, if you look at the demography, I see that the younger generations in the United Kingdom, well, prefer to stay in the European Union. So is it now the time to pull the plug when probably the country might change its mind? I don't know. I really don't know.
QUEST: Let's move a little bit away from Brexit. Has the European Union -- has this place learned any of the lessons of Brexit so far?
LAMBERTS: Indeed, I would doubt it.
QUEST: Isn't that the most worrying part?
LAMBERTS: Yes, it is. It definitely is. It is about the policies that I carried out if you are liberal. I mean, if you have increasing numbers of regents in the U.K. but thus for Europe as well, who feel left behind by globalization? There is a problem, because when you see the properties fall in France, in Italy, et cetera, what you see is that the places that are left behind are increasingly voting against Europe. We need to do something about it and defense of Europe is not the answer.
QUEST: Donald Tusk in the weeks after Brexit, specifically said if we do not learn these lessons, we are doomed. There will be a disaster. The new commission coming in, because let's face it, the young commissions just about dawn and dusted (ph). What do you want them to do?
LAMBERTS: Well, I want them to shift gears and to put, again, reduction of inequality, reduction of the (inaudible) footprint at the heart of their work. That is what I would like to see, that people can feel that the commission that European institutions work for older people, and not just a happy few.
QUEST: And for those who are not too familiar, you'll be returning?
LAMBERTS: I will be returning. Yes.
QUEST: I should mean the electorate.
LAMBERTS: Yes, I'll be leaving the Green list in Belgium, but as you know, there is very strong greed mobilization in Belgium, so it is very likely that I will be back in the European parliament.
QUEST: We look forward to that, because that means --
[16:20:00] LAMBERTS: Thank you very much.
QUEST: Glad to see you, sir. Thank you very much indeed.
LAMBERTS: Thank you.
QUEST: Now the chief executives, let's talk about other business here, the chief executives of seven of the biggest U.S. banks have been testifying before Congress. This is the first time they're facing lawmakers since the financial crisis. They're in a Democratic controlled House. Also comes as we head to the earning season. And among of those attending were the CEO's of Citi Group and Goldman Sachs. Take a listen to this testy exchange when Congresswoman Katie Porter questioned Jamie Dimon, the CEO of J.P. Morgan Chase about a low-paid employee struggling to make ends meet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): My question for you, Mr. Dimon is how should she manage this budget shortfall while she is working full-time at your bank?
JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JP MORGAN CHASE: I don't know that all the numbers are accurate. That number is a start, is a generally to start a job.
PORTER: She is a starting employee. She has a six-year-old child. This is her first job.
DIMON: OK. You can get those job at a high school and she may have my job one day.
PORTER: Mr. Dimon, she doesn't have the ability like now to spend your $31 million. She is short $567. What would you suggest she do?
DIMON: I don't know. I would have to think about that.
PORTER: Would you recommend that she take out a JPMorgan credit card and run a deficit?
DIMON: I don't know. I would have to think about it.
PORTER: Would you recommend that she overdraft at your bank and be charged overdraft fees.
DIMON: I don't know. I'd have to think about it.
PORTER: So I know you have a lot --
DIMON: I'd love to call her up and have a conversation about her financial affairs and see if we can be helpful.
PORTER: See if you can find a way for her to live on less than the minimum that I described?
DIMON: Just be helpful.
PORTER: I appreciate your desire to be helpful. But what I like you to do is provide a way for families to make ends meet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Andy Barr, one of the top Republican on the House Financial Services Committee, he was part of today's hearing. He joins me now from Capitol Hill. It's quite a good answer, isn't it, Congressman? "I don't know, I'll have to think about it."
REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): Well, I think you saw an attempt to politicize a hearing that really should had been about the serious business of financial stability and the fact that these large, global, systemically important financial institutions are much more well capitalized, they have far more liquidity, there is better risk management today, there is certainly less leverage, and they are in a much better position to serve the global economy than they were around the financial crisis.
Some of that heated rhetoric, though, was very unhelpful in terms of actually examining the positive role that these institutions play in American competitiveness, producing the very economic growth that is essential for that low-income employee to move up the economic ladder.
QUEST: Are you worried that the rollback of oversight partly as a result of the wholesale reduction of Dodd-Frank, but also the regulatory measures that have been taken away? These banks are now well and truly too large, too big to fail.
BARR: Don't forget that Dodd-Frank itself codified too big to fail, to the orderly liquidation of authority provisions of that law, and because it imposed extremely burdensome and costly regulations on regionally and small institutions. We saw big banks get bigger and small community banks become fewer in the aftermath of the Dodd-Frank law. Survival really depended on size under the Dodd-Frank law.
But what we have seen in a positive development is these globally systemically important institutions, these large Wall Street banks become more capitalized, and that has improved the resiliency of the U.S. financial system.
QUEST: Right. I hear what you say, Congressman, but it's also your job to show oversight of them.
BARR: Of course.
QUEST: I mean, this is a business program, this is a business program so we sort of err on the side of capitalism in banks. But I wonder whether the profits being exacted by these banks at the moment are starting to range to egregious, and when you consider what happened with Wells Fargo, these are out of control.
BARR: Well, look, of course we have a responsibility to exercise oversight over government regulators to make sure that they are following the law, enforcing the law, consumer protection laws. Also making sure that the financial stability oversight counsel is monitoring financial stability issues.
But look, these institutions are especially important to contributing to American competitiveness. Because only these institutions can serve globally active U.S. businesses, multinational corporations. They provide capital for their clients and they also help their clients head risks. And they facilitate liquid capital markets.
[16:25:05] QUEST: Right.
BARR: If you want economic growth and if you want financial stability, you need to have these institutions play a critical role. QUEST: I don't deny that, Congressman, but do you need them to be so
big? I understand -- don't worry, I understand your argument that you need to have a certain level of scale, but the U.S. by didn't of the size of the market provides much of that globally. And I wonder, when you look at the consolidation that is taken place within the financial industry, whether it hasn't gone too far.
BARR: Well, consolidation is a problem, and consolidation is the result of excessive government intervention. The Dodd-Frank law itself made small community bank struggle under a one size fits all regulatory model. Now you mentioned deregulation. One of the reasons why we're seeing economic growth at over 3 percent, while unemployment is at the lowest level, it's been -- in decades, is precisely because of tax cuts and deregulation. I don't think we went overboard on deregulations. In fact, I think the deregulation that occurred in the legislation passed in the last Congress was frankly quite modest. If anything we targeted a tailored that regulatory relief to small community banks that really needed it.
QUEST: Congressman, very grateful that you took time to talk to us tonight. A good robust discussion on banking. I'm much appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
BARR: Thank you. Good to be with you.
QUEST: Now. As we continue. The French president is expected to play Hardball this evening, Emanuel Macron says, Europe is having a renaissance and he doesn't want Brexit to threaten it. We'll be back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: E.U. leaders have quite a reputation for talking deep into the night when they have a big decision to make. And this could be one of those occasions, 27 heads, deliberating on whether to grant Britain's request for a Brexit delay.
[16:30:00] Friday, of course, is the day when the U.K. is supposed to leave. The pitch is over. The prime minister spoke for about an hour, and next, of course, is the dinner.
What are they having for dinner, by the way? It's a warm scallop salad, a nice loin of cod for the main -- we are not sure how you have a loin of cod -- a parfait for dessert, and of course, this existential geopolitics that will be served alongside.
David Herszenhorn is the chief Brussels correspondent for Politico. It is good to see you, sir.
DAVID HERSZENHORN, CHIEF BRUSSELS CORRESPONDENT, POLITICO: Great to see you.
QUEST: Is this going to go late?
HERSZENHORN: Well, it shouldn't be too late. That's a macadamia nut parfait, by the way. Nut is exactly the right work for Brexit discussion (ph). No, it looks like they're almost (INAUDIBLE) around the table, all 27. More than 20 of the 27 leaders have already spoken, gotten their word out. We're waiting for them to hear from French President Emmanuel Macron, who we know will make a strong push for a shorter, maybe rather than longer extension for Brexit. But all in all, they know that the U.K. will not be pushed off a cliff --
QUEST: All right.
HERSZENHORN: -- this weekend.
QUEST: So, you then go to the niceties of just how long this extension should be and the various merits and demerits of those.
HERSZENHORN: Right. And what you have here is Theresa May asking for June 30th. That's a no moment to the E.U. which is more concerned about its own operation --
QUEST: Which begs the question why she would ask for something that's clearly not a runner.
HERSZENHORN: But she knows that from a practical perspective, there is an argument to be made, that they're thinking about their European Parliament election which will happen in May, and that parliament get seated in early July.
So theoretically, if the U.K. is out by the end of June, no harm, no foul. But what they're looking at now is an understanding they can't do it before the European election, so the U.K. will have to participate.
Now, one debate is go to the end of the year or maybe to Halloween, to October 31st. That will get the U.K. out before the new commission sits, and then you wouldn't need a new British commissioner in the European Commission across (INAUDIBLE).
QUEST: But what about the suggestion tonight from (INAUDIBLE) sources there that no deal is still an option? They are saying tonight that no deal is still an option. Putting it clearly, it is better to let them go than to have them ruining everything in the union.
HERSZENHORN: There's a lot of tough talk, but there is absolute agreement that no deal would be a bad deal for everyone. And there is no escape.
The E.U. has already made clear that if the U.K. were to crash out without this withdrawal agreement, any future relationship it wants with the E.U. would start with discussion about securing the three things that are core to the withdrawal agreement already: Citizens' rights, a financial settlement on what the U.K. owes to the Budget, and of course, that backstop on the Irish border. So there's no deal, there's no escape for the U.K.
QUEST: Right. This is what Barnier made clear, didn't he, during the course of the week? First time really anybody has said that in quite such blunt terms. Everyone says a no deal and then a free trade agreement.
HERSZENHORN: German Chancellor Angela Merkel said as much a month ago at the last summit, warning them, hey, don't talk like this, it will be really your responsible. We've also heard that the European Commission Secretary General Martin Selmayr has made the case in recent days that the E.U. just doesn't push members out. The U.K. hasn't figured out what it wants to do. When it makes up its mind to go, it should go, but they won't be the one to push.
QUEST: OK, so they won't push them out, but why have they not managed to put together or construct that allows the passage of the withdrawal bill, but the U.K. doesn't leave while they discuss the future arrangement? The treaty does talk about the framework of future relations. It's not beyond the wit to shoehorn into that a proper discussion.
HERSZENHORN: This is what was envisioned, to get into a transition period where the U.K. was effectively out but nothing would change, so it wouldn't have a vote in this building when the council meets, but it would be out and it would be safely out with no change.
But of course, that's been (INAUDIBLE) in the House of Commons. The issue was on the U.K. side where they refused to go along with this, fearful of this Irish backstop, fearful that somehow there is a trap. It always amazes me. I try to say this over and over again. The Brits don't want to believe it. The E.U. is not trying to trap them here. They are trying to help them to the exit.
QUEST: Again, looking back at the treaty, what is so wrong with saying -- (INAUDIBLE) basic, up to three years of this -- but what is so wrong with saying we are leaving, let's also discuss what the future will look like before we go?
HERSZENHORN: They've essentially done that, but what the treaty does say is you can't negotiate that future agreement, really sign that agreement, until the U.K. is a third country, that you have to crawl before you walk, walk before you run, that there does have to be this legal sequence.
They've already done a lot of this discussion and one signal that the E.U. has been sending over and over in recent days is if Theresa May can reach a deal with Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party and decide that what they want to do is switch the U.K. red lines and stay in what is called the customs union with the E.U., maintain a close relationship economically, a common external border in tariff, they would be more than happy to redraft what is called the political declaration that accompanies the withdrawal agreement --
[16:35:11] QUEST: Of course, it's meaningless. It's meaningless.
HERSZENHORN: But it would say, hey, the goal now is a customs union. You know, it's meaningless, but when these folks put stuff in writing, they tend to stick to it. That's been true on the British side, too. When people talk about, oh, the Brits can start making missteps ((ph) here, the E.U. officials said there has been no sign of that so far. They are not going to believe that suddenly the U.K. would start acting in bad faith. So there are ways to get at what you're saying. It's silly to think there hasn't been discussion about what this future relationship would look like. But in the end, London has to reach agreement. Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn got to get their heads together or the House of Commons has to vote one way or another. It's up to the Brits.
QUEST: What time do you think tonight?
HERSZENHORN: I guess 11:30, our time.
QUEST: At 11:30. That's an hour to go.
HERSZENHORN: It's an hour to go.
QUEST: It's not going to be all night (ph)?
HERSZENHORN: It's not going to be all night (ph). They know that they have to give an extension. It's just a question of what are the terms. We will see it in a couple of hours.
QUEST: It is good to see you, sir.
HERSZENHORN: Great to see you.
QUEST: Thank you. The British prime minister has at least one fan in the room this evening. The Lithuanian president tells me there is a lot to admire about Theresa May's leadership, after this very short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Lithuania is one of the 27 at the emergency summit somewhere back there over the loin of cod, whatever that is. The country's president, Lithuanian president that is, told me she admires the leadership of British Prime Minister Theresa May.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DALIA GRYBAUSKAITE, PRESIDENT OF LITHUANIA: As a head of state, I understand very much what decisions she needs to make and how little support she has and understanding. And looking a little bit from outside, not from a British point of view, but from outside, I can admire and can say that she has stamina, she got strength and patience. And that in this situation for Britain is very important to have.
QUEST (on camera): Just a few more questions, madam president. So, when she goes into the council, the one thing I've always noticed about the council is it is full of politicians, leaders, who have battled their own domestic issues in the past. Do you think that there is sympathy amongst leaders?
Because, you know, President Macron has got the yellow vest. Chancellor Merkel has had problems in the barrier (ph).
[16:40:02] All of the leaders to some extent have political problems so they can sympathize with the prime minister.
GRYBAUSKAITE: Yes, the European Council is only leaders of their countries around the table with their own experience, with their own challenges, and of course we do understand each other. But sometimes some leaders are very much overwhelmed by internal politics in their country and sometimes rhetorically in public they are playing this game more for their own audience than for European audience.
Then there is some kind of probable contradictory discussions in public. But around the table, we are very much understanding each other and supporting each other.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST (on camera): (INAUDIBLE). That's what E.U. leaders were saying about Theresa May before the meeting. An E.U. diplomat just tells CNN that the British prime minister came across as decent and clear in her presentation tonight. Another said that it was better than the last one.
Nic Robertson is over at Downing Street. By that, I assume it means that she appeared to have a plan, because the last time, they said she was defensive. But now, really, she has no cards.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the card that she had to play was her cross party talks with the Labour Party and she would have been able to point to the (INAUDIBLE) levels within the -- from the shadow cabinet of the Labour Party.
Keir Starmer was there, the shadow Brexit secretary, talking with David Lidington, the deputy prime minister, talking with the Chancellor of the Exchequer, talking with the environment secretary, Michael Gove, talking with the Chief Whip as part of this cross party negotiation.
That sends a very strong and clear message. That means, across parties, there is a conversation. Both of those parties are saying that it has been useful, that people are working in good faith. What they weren't able to say was there has been progress, but this is perhaps what Theresa May was able to allude to.
She would have been able to tell the E.U. 27 leaders, look, this group of cross party ministers and shadow cabinet ministers will be sitting down again Thursday. This will continue. This is a direction. This is what we have. This is why I believe, as British prime minister, we can get to an agreement over the withdrawal agreement in the British Parliament.
If that was her sell, there would have been those in the audience who would have been skeptical and would have felt that they've seen and heard this before. But will it be something new that the prime minister can put in front of them? These meetings are series of meetings, technical, and between herself and Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the opposition. So perhaps that's what they were referring to, Richard. QUEST: But, you know, it's fine to talk about those talks. But Jeremy Corbyn said yesterday that the prime minister hasn't moved on any of her red lines, which does beg the question -- I mean, all right, so, maybe she's prepared to consider a customs union, but on the question, for example, of a second referendum or a confirmatory vote, the best she so far prepared to say, as I understand it, is that she might be prepared to put that one in front of parliament.
ROBERTSON: Ian Blackford, the leader of the SNP, stood up and asked that question during prime minister's question time today. He said very clearly, "Prime Minister, did you offer a second confirmatory referendum to Labour in that negotiation? The first answer of the prime minister, the politicians have a very great skill in doing, which is walking around the question and not answering it.
This is a very simple "yes" or "no" question. The prime minister said number one, that the House has buried (ph) this down twice already. My position, she said -- this is very clear -- that she is opposed to it. However, she said that would be those in the House that would want to vote on this. So, yes, she did leave the door open there.
But when it comes to actually making that concession clear in the talks, clearly Labour have had this as part of their party manifesto, again, a problem within the Labour Party, this issue of the confirmatory referendum, when they should actually move towards that en masse (ph), so to speak. Indicative votes, yes. But in this negotiation, that is not clear if they've actually asked for that.
The customs union, yes, we know that is something on the Labour Party's agenda. Those talks, yes, we know that because Jeremy Corbyn has said that it is. But when you listen to the language today from the Brexit secretary speaking on BBC radio this morning to millions of listeners across Britain, it is very clear that he framed the situation at the moment, and of course he was part of those negotiations across party yesterday, framed the situation as parliament not doing their job.
[16:45:03] And of course, to look at just (ph) from Labour, we feel very much they ramp (ph) this situation because of the prime minister not being able to do her job and her party not following and falling in line with that. So, you know, although there are key specific issues, the common ground is yet to be found.
I think the language that we get the impression, the position to being taken, still as yet very much to opposing sides and not yet people actually sharing that common ground in the middle, Richard.
QUEST: Nic, I suppose you'll be there late as we wait for further details. Thank you. Question tonight, CNN.com question of the night, what kind of extension should the E.U. grant the U.K.? Should there be a longer conditional one? Long and unconditional? A short extension? No extension at all?
Fifty-seven percent of you say no extension at all. That means, of course, crashing out of the E.U. in two days' time. Long gets 39 percent. Of course, that's longer and unconditional. We'll update you with the results over the next two hours or so.
Daniel Dalton is a member of the European Parliament of the Conservative Party. He is outside the commission building. How humiliating is it for you, for your party, for Britain tonight to basically be groveling for an extension because of the inability to do -- to agree to something that you asked for in the first place?
DANIEL DALTON, EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT MEMBER, BRITISH CONSERVATIVE PARTY: I don't think it's humiliating. I mean, the fact is that the parliament has not got the deal through. If we had been able to get the deal through, then we wouldn't be in this situation at all. Ultimately, the Article 53 process only gives two years. It's quite a short process and it's almost always destined to end up at this point, I think.
QUEST: Oh, I don't agree with you, sir. I mean, there was plenty of opportunity, over two years to come to a deal arguably if the prime minister had handled it differently and done then what she is now doing, either indicative votes or reaching across the aisle with cross-party talks.
DALTON: No, I don't agree with that at all. I mean, we only got the deal toward the end of last year, and that was after quite a lot of difficulties, mainly because the E.U. was put in a negotiating position where we couldn't negotiate any of the future trade arrangements until after we sorted out the withdrawal agreement.
The withdrawal agreement, of course, demanded that in that agreement, you would explain how the Irish border would remain open, and you can only really do that by knowing what the future trade relation is. So, given that was a negotiating position from the E.U., I think we were always destined to get to this very last -- sort of last moment panic, if you like, to try and get the deal through. It hasn't gone through. And therefore, we need to ask for that extension.
QUEST: Hang on a second. What is the point of this extension? Let's just be clear about it. What is the point? To find out what parliament's will is when arguably parliament should have been consulted and telling what it's will is back late last year.
DALTON: Well, I think there are two points to the extension. The first one is to avoid a no-deal scenario, which parliament has voted against, and I think would be in a short term catastrophic for everyone. And secondly, to give the prime minister a little bit more time to try and get that deal through because it is actually not that far away from getting through.
That's one of the reasons she's been talking to the Labour Party, to see if she can just eke a bit of support out of them to get the deal over the line. And that's why, really, she only wants a relatively short extension to ensure that we can get out before the European elections.
QUEST: I wonder where she gets that support from. To eke out, as you say, a bit of support, having watched the way the majority against her has fallen considerably, but it's still a good several dozen. And Labour is going to extract a price which would break or cross one of her red lines.
DALTON: Well, I mean, she doesn't necessarily need to get the whole Labour Party on side. I think given that fact that no deal is sort of being ruled out from London, at least, that puts a lot of pressure on the Brexiteers, the really hard Brexiteers, both in the Conservative Party and in the Labour Party. Actually, it's either the deal or probably quite a long extension yet.
QUEST: All right. So, now, Mr. Dalton, imagine this was another country.
[16:49:48] So the country decides it's going to, for the first time, leave the E.U. which it's perfectly entitled to do, then embarks on a two-year process which essentially also (INAUDIBLE) much of the work of the union, it can't come through an agreement domestically so it requires several extensions, thus causing consternation amongst the existing members who fear that the working of the union is going to be hindered or harmed. What would you say to that country?
DALTON: Well, I would say to that country maybe they should actually look back at the E.U., because maybe the E.U. has imposed a withdrawal agreement that is too hard domestically for that country to accept. I think that's probably the situation we're in here, that actually the E.U. needs to take a look at this and say, well, maybe some of the demands we made in that withdrawal deal are just not viable to get through the Democratic parliament in the U.K.
QUEST: Which particular one? The backstop, the Irish insisted upon it. The prime minister, your prime minister, signed up to it. If you remember in December of '17, she said with that initial agreement that there would be -- she would honor, of course, all the obligations of the Good Friday Agreement. It became the backstop in the withdrawal agreement, something that was not going to be possible to pass parliament.
DALTON: Yeah, but no one is questioning the Good Friday Agreement. From London and Dublin, they made it very clear that they want border to be opened. What we are discussing about is how is how is that border kept open. The difficulty in the withdrawal agreement is keeping that border open.
It can only be done in two ways. One, the whole U.K. staying in customs union, or Northern Ireland having a different set of rules to the rest of the U.K. that's the problem. Now, that could be solved by trying to find another way. Well, first of all, by getting the future trade relationships sorted out so we know how the border can be dealt with.
QUEST: It is good to have you with us. We much appreciate it, Mr. Dalton. Quick question, in European elections, are you standing and will you be back?
DALTON: Sorry, I missed that.
QUEST: Are you going to stand in these elections now?
DALTON: I am. If they happen, yes, I will be standing.
QUEST: We look forward to talking to you more. Good of you to talk to us. Thank you, sir. So, as we get to the end of this particular hour, let me update you where we are. The 27 are meeting over dinner, the loin of cod, which I still haven't discovered what that is, and the scallops. Yes, the warm scallops salad. I imagined dinner is now finished.
They have done the (INAUDIBLE) where they all have their say and the issue of course is not really one of whether to grant the U.K. an extension. That is pretty much given. It is how long and how -- on what conditions. The French are playing hardball, it is believe to be. The French even saying a no-deal Brexit is still an option. Nobody else is saying that tonight.
As we continue, we will be with you. We are going to stay here right the way through because the news never stops, neither do we. Here from the Justus Lipsius Center (ph), this is CNN.
[16:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Good evening to you from Brussels. The U.K.'s fate and Brexit is in the hands of 27 leaders who are debating and evaluating whether or not they're going to allow the U.K. an extension and delay Brexit again, second time. And if so for how long and at what cost?
A very good evening to you and a warm welcome to Brussels, where tonight British Prime Minister Theresa May is trying to avoid a no deal which would happen on Friday. She's made her case for an extension at the emergency summit a short while ago, and this is what the prime minister is asking for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER OF THE UNITED KINGDOM: The purpose of this summit is to agree an extension which gives us more time to agree a deal to enable us to leave the E.U. in that smooth and orderly way. What matters, I think, is that I've asked for an extension for the 30th of June, but what is important is that any extension enables us to leave at a point in which we ratify the withdrawal agreement so we could leave on the 22nd of May and start to build our brighter future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: The E.U. doesn't seem to think she can pull it off in such a little time. As a result, thinking and leaning towards an (ph) extension, a flexible one that lasts a year. France could be the one that is singing a different tune. The French president is telling CNN no deal is still very much an option. Erin McLaughlin is with me here in Brussels. What is the latest?
ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Richard, I've heard from two E.U. diplomats who tell me that French President Emmanuel Macron has spoken at tonight's summit. They're still in the early stages of this discussion. Apparently according to one diplomat, Macron has said he's heard nothing yet after listening to the E.U. leaders and Theresa May that has convinced him that it might be useful for an extension to go beyond June 30th. This diplomat --
QUEST: Is anybody joining in on that?
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. I'm told by this diplomat there is a group of member states who are with him on this. This diplomat, though, is cautioning that this is the first phase of the discussion. Now, once everyone has spoken, that is when Tusk takes the reins and pushes it to the next phase. Bottom line is, this looks like it could be a very long night.
QUEST: Actually, stay with me. Do not go a moment further. Nic Robertson is with me. Nic, let's go back. I'm just trying to work out the permutations, if we may.
