Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Event/Special
CNN International: Officials: Iran Seizes British-Flagged Tanker; Trump Says U.S. Downed Iranian Drone, Iran Denies It. Aired 5- 6p ET
Aired July 19, 2019 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST: Hello, and welcome, I'm Becky Anderson coming to you live from CNN's Middle East programming hub here in Abu Dhabi. It is 1:00 a.m. but everyone very much awake this hour.
Our top story, a brazen display of aggression by Iran in the Persian Gulf region as it seizes the British-flagged Stena Impero pictured here. The U.S. says Iran has also seized a second tanker, a Liberian- flagged ship but Iran denying that. An expert says though it is clear this is the highest leveled security threat in the region in decades.
Here's how Iran's state run PressTV reported the capture of the Stena Impero in the Straight of Hormuz.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Iran's Islamic Revolution Guards Corps says it has seized a British oil tanker in the Strait of Hormuz. According to the IRGC's official statement, the vessels name is Stena Impero. It was seized for violating international naval regulations as it was passing the strategic waterway. PressTV will update you as soon as we get more information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, the U.K. government has convened an emergency response meeting and the British foreign secretary says he is extremely concerned by the situation. He says there are no U.K. citizens on that ship. These seizures happened as Gibraltar got approval to detain an Iranian tanker for another month. Iran's Revolutionary Guard threatened British shipping after Royal Marines captured this Iranian vessel early this month. Here is what the U.S. president had to say about today's situation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So we're going to be speaking with the U.K. and this only goes to show what I'm saying about Iran, trouble, nothing but trouble. And remember this, the agreement, the ridiculous agreement made by President Obama expires in a very short period of time, it was a short-term agreement. When you're dealing in countries you have to deal in 50 years to 100 years, you don't deal on the short-term. That was a ridiculous agreement. And it goes to show you I was right about Iran. And let's see what happens. But I know that it's not an American ship, it's U.K. I guess it could be one, it could be two. And we'll be speaking to them. They have a new Prime Minister coming soon and that's a good thing for the U.K.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: And there you see U.S. president responding to this latest news.
Let's bring in CNN's Fred Pleitgen, he in Tehran just a few weeks ago, and also CNN's David Culver from London. We have reaction from the U.K.
Let's start with you, Fred. Nothing but trouble is how the U.S. president has just described Iran. What are we hearing from Tehran and why they've seized at least one British tanker, if not a second to we're looking to try and understand that information up and why now?
FREDERICK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think the timing is obviously one that's very interesting and it really seems to stem from several things. First of all, officially the Iranians are saying, pure and simple, they believe that this tanker or they're saying that this tanker disregarded international maritime laws.
One of the things that the Iranians had been saying is that this tanker apparently turned off its tracker. Now it's unclear whether or not that was an international waters or anywhere else. And of course it's also something that we have not confirmed yet, but the Iranians are saying that it was then that the Revolutionary Guard Corps buzzed that tanker and then brought it towards the Iranian shoreline and then eventually brought it on shore as they said.
Now, information that we're getting, Becky, is that apparently that tanker has been brought or is being brought to the port of Bandar Abbas. And of course, we both know it's a very large port that the Iranians have also with a significant presence of the Revolutionary Guard Corps navy there as well.
Now, the question is to why this is happening now. I think one of the things that's really interesting in all this is that of course the government of Gibraltar and the British authorities have just extended the detention of that Iranian tanker by 30 days. It doesn't seem as though it could be coincidence that those things, that the seizing of this tanker and that event are coinciding the way that they are.
And then of course we had the fact that the U.S. brought a large helicopter/aircraft carrier through the Strait of Hormuz as well, which of course was something that Iranians would have viewed as a provocation.
[17:05:00] And the Iranians have been saying if someone wants to challenge them in the Strait of Hormuz, in the Persian Gulf that they would be ready. And certainly we have seen some pretty bellicose rhetoric especially from the Revolutionary Guard Corps, while at the same time Iran's political leadership in the form first and foremost of Javad Zarif, the Foreign Minister, has been dangling that carrot out there saying look, there might be the possibility of a new agreement between Iran and the United States but first the Iranians want the U.S. to go back to the JCPPOA, to the nuclear agreement and lift of course first and foremost a lot of those sanctions as well, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes. You rightly point out that this at a time when the Iranian foreign minister has been in New York and offering what he describes as a substantial move to formally and permanently accept enhanced inspections with nuclear program in return for lifting sanctions. I'm just wondering, so why would the Revolutionary Guard put in jeopardy any potential for negotiation at this point?
PLEITGEN: Well, I would think that it's that carrot and stick strategy that we've been talking about. On the one hand, the Iranians are saying, look, right now with President Trump's policies that we've been seeing, with the U.S. getting out of the nuclear agreement, with those sanctions taking place, the Iranians have been saying that is not something that is going to lead to stability in the Middle East.
Quite interesting, I've been following a lot of as we all have Javad Zarif's tweets over the past couple of months. And one of the things that he pointed out is that the U.S. has been trying to achieve Iran and not being able to enrich uranium. Iran completely giving up any of its civilian nuclear program as well they believe for the Trump administration, but the fact of what's it's been going on is that it has been expanding.
I think one of the things that the Iranians are trying to show the Trump administration is that this policy of maximum pressure that the Iran -- that the U.S. administration has been following, he's leading pretty much to the opposite results of what the Trump administration has been trying to achieve. There's less stability in the Strait of Hormuz and it expanded nuclear program by the Iranians now, Becky.
ANDERSON: David, the official line from Iran is that this tanker had flouted naval rules and they're -- that's a pretty wide sort of reason and we'll dig into exactly what they mean by that. Iran though had warned the U.K. that they would respond to the seizing of the Iranian flagged tanker off the coast of Gibraltar just a couple of weeks ago. What has been the response to this latest incident from the U.K.?
DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: To your point, Becky, Iran has made that warning to U.K. officials repeatedly and urgently over the past several weeks since it was detaining the Grace One on July 4th.
Now to your point as far as how the U.K. officials are responding to this, here it is a Friday night a lot of folks are ready to take a breath for the weekend, took a dramatic turn when all of this went down. That COBR meeting, that national security gathering we know that was convened. A part of that of course was U.K. Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt. He expresses his concern for this acknowledging that this is a very serious situation. And he says that the U.K. ambassador within Tehran is working with other international partners to try to remedy this. What's really unclear is how they can actually deescalate this at this point. Who is going to really play a pivotal role? Certainly, the U.S. doesn't seem to be in a place to do that. So it puts U.K. officials in a very tight predicament as far as what Bob Seely, a U.K. member of the foreign committee he had to tell Richard Quest that he really equates this to hostage taking and that hostage being the tanker here.
ANDERSON: Yes. As the Iranians described, among the coolest tit for tat the seizing of the Iranian-flagged tanker off Gibraltar, we're just looking of pictures of where we believe the COBR meeting is being held in London, as David rightly pointed out. It's past 10:00 now in the evening there, just past 1:00 in the morning here in the UAE.
Let me get back to you, Fred, because this is important. Should we expect this to continue? I mean should we expect to see more provocation as it were? I mean the Iranians will say this isn't provocation. This tanker flouted naval rules they say which is why they have seized it. But, you know, what's next I guess is the question at this point?
PLEITGEN: Well, I think what we have been seeing over the past couple of months especially since the U.S. has left the nuclear agreement is that, that has really been the fundamental issue that has really led to a lot of the instability that's been going on.
[17:10:02] And I think one of the things that the Iranians were saying, I think it was Javad Zarif was saying just a couple of days ago, he said, look, the U.S. can't expect that there's going to be security and assurances for the Strait of Hormuz for everybody except the Iranians. They say, look, if the Iranians are going to -- or if the international community, especially the U.S. is going to try to marginalize the Iranians in the Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf, then that means the entire Persian Gulf is not going to be secure. And we've seen real lot of instability on various levels.
If we just look at some of the incidents that have been taking place, when we saw them, we just take a step back and look at all of this. The variety of instance that have taken place, these attacks on those tankers which -- with alleged sea mines, the Iranians say they're not behind them, the U.S. saying that they were.
The shooting down of a U.S. drone, a gigantic incident, the alleged taking down at least of an Iranian drone just today or last night with the Iranians saying that didn't happen and now tankers being seized. Certainly doesn't seem as though anyone's in the way or anything is looking like de-escalation at this point.
And then if you look at some of the statements that we've been hearing, especially from the Revolutionary Guard Corps, which of course is very hard line and a very elite part of the Iranian military, they have been saying if there are provocations there is going to be a reaction. If there's going to be an escalation from the American side there's going to be a bigger escalation coming from the Iranian side. So, right now, very difficult to see that either side is going to be backing down. Because the U.S., of course for its part, also says that international shipping needs to be maintained.
The U.S. has just conducted today a show of force, or yesterday, a show of force, bringing the USS Boxer through. And the Iranians -- and this was interesting as well, Becky, because the USS Boxer going through the Strait of Hormuz, I was on the USS Abraham Lincoln the last time it went through the Strait of Hormuz a couple of years ago and we did see also a lot of Iranian ships, a lot Iranians planes there in the vicinity. But the Iranians they released video of the Boxer going through and they flew very close to it with a helicopter.
I can't remember any vessel from the Iranians coming that close when I was going to the Strait of Hormuz with the U.S. military. So clearly, the Iranians also very much involved in a show of force saying they believe they are the ones who are boss in the Strait of Hormuz. And it certainly is not going to be an easy passage for anyone as long as Iran is under sanctions because the U.S. military beefed up in the region as well, Becky.
ANDERSON: Yes. We're going to get to the Pentagon to our reporter there to talk more about what we know has been happening around that USS Boxer in a moment.
To both of you, for the time being, thank you for that.
Let's go live to Iran now. Ramin Mostaghim is a "Los Angeles Times" reporter in Tehran joining us now via Skype.
What do you make of what has happened over the past couple of hours, Ramin?
RAMIN MOSTAGHIM, LOS ANGELES TIMES REPORTER: OK, Becky, it is in line of the brinkmanship from the Iranian side. And they -- if you want just to see the incident through their mind set, I can say, they perceive it as enough is enough. And that when it was announced that Iranian super tanker will be seized for one -- another one month, so it was the last straw for them. And Iran as you see could not tolerate this. Because they suppose, I mean, wrongly or rightly, that there won't be a major military incident there and there won't be a war.
And they have been convinced by the authorities that the American administration is unable to wage war and British government is too weak to wage a war. So they are sure that if they flex the muscles and then show the teeth and follow the tit-for-tat policy, they are the winner. And that is their perception whether we like it or not.
And for them, extension of one month more seizure of Iranian supertanker was the last straw and they couldn't tolerate more. And that's why it was predictable, actually.
ANDERSON: All right. So --
MOSTAGHIM: Mohsen Rezaee, the fourth commander of IRGC said --
ANDERSON: Right.
MOSTAGHIM: Yes.
ANDERSON: Sorry, let me just stop you there.
MOSTAGHIM: Yes, go ahead.
ANDERSON: So you're saying from the perspective of the IGRC that is the situation. Let's remind ourselves that this Iranian tanker that was seized in Gibraltar or just off the coast of Gibraltar was seized on suspicion of busting sanctions on sending oil to Syria.
Be that as it may, I hear what you are saying. And look, it's not like the warnings weren't there.
[17:14:59] Back in December, President Rouhani said, if one day they, and at the time he was referring to Americans, want to prevent the exports of Iran's oil, then no one will be -- no oil will be exported from the Persian Gulf. And the same sort of thing is being said time and time again over the past year since the Americans pulled out of this deal.
Question is this, this incident has happened at the same time as there was a chink of light possibly in negotiations between the U.S. and Iran. So why would the Revolutionary Guard up the stakes, up the brinksmanship now?
MOSTAGHIM: The brinkmanship is a part of the diplomacy of the IRGC, and it's just -- it's a carrot in diplomacy for them. And they suppose, because in the backdrop there is no threat of war and there is sort of guarantee that there won't be major a incident there, so this minor incident for them is acting as a bargain chips for diplomacy. So, they suppose a tit-for-tat policy is another language, another aspects of rhetoric of war to gain some things, and so far they have gained some things. And at least they want to prove that who is the boss in the Persian Gulf? IRGC and the Islamic Republic of Iran. This is what they want to show and demonstrate to the world whether we like it or not, that is the way they have followed in the past decades and they want just to get something in return. And rhetorical wars prove to be rewarded by them. And there is some bonus for them.
ANDERSON: OK.
MOSTAGHIM: And they have lots of experience in that regard.
ANDERSON: Not unfamiliar --
MOSTAGHIM: Behavior.
ANDERSON: Not unfamiliar behavior by the Revolutionary Guard.
All right, let's bring in CNN's Pentagon Reporter Ryan Browne now. The U.S. monitoring the Strait of Hormuz from the air right now with armed aircraft, what more can you tell us?
RYAN BROWNE, CNN PENTAGON REPORTER: Well, the U.S. has been monitoring the region for some time now, and we were told that it was boosted after this seizure of this U.K.-flagged vessel because -- partly because there was a U.S. ship, cargo ship, operating in the area, and that the U.S. was keeping a close eye on it to make sure that it was not interfered with by any Iranian military vessels. And again, this is a very narrow waterway, so there is not a lot of kind of room to operate. So they would have to respond quickly if anything were to happen.
We're also been told, you know, for the U.K. flagship that there are British vessels in the area, they have responded to moved in the area, but because things happened so fast -- unlike the last instance where this happen, the U.K. warship was able to deter Iran from seizing a U.K. vessel, they were not there in time.
ANDERSON: Fascinating. Let's just talk about this claim by Donald Trump of destroying an Iranian drone on Thursday. I mean, the Iranians have trashed that claim, dismissing it as sheer lies. What evidence do we have, if any, that that incident actually occurred?
BROWNE: Well, multiple military defense, and other officials that we have spoken to stand by the president -- President Trump's comments with that this drone, Iranian drone was downed yesterday using an electronic warfare system, fairly advanced electric warfare system that operated by U.S. Marines aboard the USS Boxer there.
ANDERSON: Right.
BROWNE: So again, you know, these countries tend to make competing claims. You know, we saw the similar when Iran shot down a U.S. drone. They said it was in Iranian air space. The U.S. military said it was in international air space. So you kind of see these back and forth in claims very often in this region.
ANDERSON: Yes. Ryan, as you speak we are just looking at video that's been released by the Iranians, reporting to show the drone as they describe it, hovering over that USS Boxer. Both before and after Donald Trump suggested that it was -- it was taken out of the sky.
All right, very quickly to you Ryan, it is very likely that the Revolutionary Guard are confident that the U.S. isn't building an argument for war at this point. They have pulled back from the brink.
[17:20:01] Would they be right in believing that? Is the Trump administration swerved this one?
BROWNE: Well, I mean, you know, they might be basing that of a several phase. I mean, one, President Trump publicly said that he had decided to strike Iran in retaliation for the downing of that drone several weeks ago. Reversed course and talked about that publicly.
So Iran -- the IRGC maybe detecting a hesitancy to intervene. And President Trump speaking today about the incident said it was an underscore that these were U.K. -- this was a U.K. vessel that was taken. The other vessel, the Liberian-flagged vessel that was stopped we are now being told has been allowed to continue on its way. The U.K. vessel still in Iranian custody. President Trump (INAUDIBLE) it was a U.K. vessel, not a U.S. vessel that had been interfered with, so you could read into that possibly that he -- he was not making the case for a military response at this point in time.
ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. Ryan, thank you. As Ryan and I have just been discussing, the U.S. position with regard to Iran, we are just getting some information in.
According to three people familiar with the developments, behind the scenes at the White House, President Trump has privately adopted a more hawkish tone in recent days as tensions increase in the gulf. I'll just read you what we've got here. Previously, Donald Trump emphasizing finding diplomatic solution as you know to the crisis in Tehran and backing off a planned strike on Iranian positions last month at the very last minute.
During those discussions, Donald Trump expressed concern that U.S. retaliation could escalate the tensions in the region. But amid the most recent incidents, Trump has not placed as much emphasis on talks, apparently, according to people familiar with the matter. That's due in part to a chilly reception, Donald Trump's public overchores (ph) for negotiations received from Iranian leaders.
So as we get more about the atmosphere at the White House and how Donald Trump is perceiving these latest incidents by the Revolutionary Guards, say, we will get it to you. But it's all grist for the mill as we develop the narrative as it were or certainly look and analyze the narrative around U.S./Iranian tensions which now of course include U.K. tensions too. We will be right back with more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Updating you now on our top story. Iran's seizure of a British-flagged tanker in the Strait of Hormuz. The ship is the Stena Impero pictured here. The U.S. says Iran also seized a Liberian- flagged ship. Iran says that vessel was stopped and then allowed to continue.
[17:25:09] A marine tracking website shows this vessel headed west in the gulf, not north to Iran. Still, an expert says it is clear this is the highest level security threat in the region in decades. And the U.K. government has convened an emergency response meeting.
Well, the seizures happened as Gibraltar got approval to detain an Iranian tanker for another month. Iran's Revolutionary Guard threatened British shipping after Royal Marines captured this Iranian vessel earlier this month. Well, here's why so much has been happening in this area -- the Strait of Hormuz is a channel linking the Persian Gulf with the Gulf of Oman, and the Arabian Sea. About 35 percent of the world's oil tanker traffic passes through this strait. It is considered the world's most important oil choke point.
In all, more than 17 million barrels of oil a day pass through this strait. Back in for example 2011 according to the U.S. Energy Information Agency no reason to suggest those numbers will be any much different these days.
Let's turn to Trita Parsi. He's the executive vice president of the Quincy Institute, author of "Losing an Enemy" and an expert on Iran.
It's a pleasure having you on. We have spoken before. Let me start with this latest incident, the seizing of this British tanker by the Revolutionary Guard. What do you make of what is going on?
TRITA PARSI, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, THE QUINCY INSTITUTE: It's a very unfortunate and very dangerous development, but unfortunately also a highly predictable development. I think what the Iranians are doing is signaling countries that if you allow yourself, if you succumb to the pressure of the Trump administration, allow yourself to become a tool in the Trump administration's strategy of pressuring Iran's maximum pressure strategy, then you will pay a price for it because the Iranians are not going to allow you to target Iran without responding.
And as you have mentioned on air, this is following the Brits capturing an Iranian tanker about two weeks ago. And they warned that they would be retaliating against that. This is all extremely dangerous, very unfortunate. And none of this would not have been happening, hadn't not been for the Trump administration seeking to kill the nuclear deal and going down this path of maximum pressure against Iran.
ANDERSON: The Trump administration in response would say the reason they did that was that Iran is meddling in the region and has a ballistics missile program which threatens this region. So there's a narrative on both side, but I get what you are saying here.
PARSI: The deal doesn't deal with those issues. If you want to have a critique of the deal, it has to be on the merits of the deal itself, not on the issues that by both sides agreed upon would not be part of the deal. This is about actually following the law. And the Trump administration can have arguments as to why they don't want to follow the law, but it doesn't mean that they're not following the law, they are breaking international law, they are violating the U.N. Security Council resolution and that that clearly will have consequences.
ANDERSON: Trita, explain to our viewers the nuance here. As we have had the Iranian foreign minister in New York the last couple of days -- whose movements by the way have been extremely limited by the U.S. administration. But in New York, with what he describes as a substantial move or offer to the U.S. on the details of that deal that the U.S. hoped they might be able to renegotiate.
So you see the Revolutionary Guard sort of, you know, poking the hornets nest as it were in this Strait of Hormuz. A disconnect between the two? Or part in par of Iranian negotiation?
PARSI: Part of Iranian reaction rather than negotiation. Because essentially what the Iranians are showing their conclusion has been is that after they live up to the nuclear deal and they got nothing for it, and the Europeans made a lot of positive statement about seeping to keep the deal alive, but they've been much more adamant on making sure that they are not violating Trump's sanctions.
And as a result of all of that, the only way they can protect themselves strong would potentially would be an attack from the Trump administration, mindful the fact that John Bolton is the national security adviser is for them to have this deters and show that they're willing to fight back if attacked.
On the other hand, making an offer of negotiations and agreeing to discuss on parameters of all of this, but on the other hand also saying they're not going to be pushed around and they're not going to be an easy -- it's not going to be a cakewalk like John Bolton tricked the United States thinking the Iraq War would be.
ANDERSON: A couple of things I want to discuss with you here. This is just coming in to CNN. Senator Tom Cotton, a hardliners on Iran saying "the ayatollahs will continue their campaign of terror as long as we let them. Outrageous and lawless acts such as this hijacking call for international condemnation and punishment."
We have heard behind the scenes at the White House according to three sources that the perceived sort of stepping back by Donald Trump in the past couple of days in favor of some sort of negotiation might have come to an end, and that he's taking a slightly more hawkish position once again. What do you -- where do you see this going next?
PARSI: First of all, the mood seems to be changing in the White House in an extremely erratic way, mindful of how dysfunctional this White House unfortunately is, which in and of itself is a threat to international peace and instability.
So, yes, it may be very well true that Trump's mood is now a little bit more angry and they will be tilting this way, and three days from now he maybe tilting in a different way. That's the problem.
The entire world is trying to adjust itself to the anger and whims of the Trump administration and Trump himself. That is a recipe for disaster at the end of the day. There needs to be agreements. People need to be adhering to them, respecting them.
We are in a situation for which the tweet of Donald Trump seems to hold stronger legal value than a US Security Council resolution. That is not the way the world should be functions.
ANDERSON: It may not be the way the world should be functioning, Trita, but sadly it is the way the world is functioning at present. Thank you.
PARSI: Thank you.
ANDERSON: Sure. Thank you. We'll have you back. This isn't going away. Thank you.
And we'll be right back. Let's me just give you a very quick update here.
There was a second ship, a second vessel that had -- that was reportedly seized. That second vessel now we've heard from the ship manager that all the crew is safe. They have released a statement confirming the vessel is free to continue its voyage and all crew members are safe.
So that clearing up one of the issues that we had earlier on which was trying to stand up the information on that second vessel being seized. It is now on its way and free to continue its passage.
We will be right back with more on the seizing of a British tanker in the Strait of Hormuz by the revolutionary guard. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: Recapping our top story for you now. Iran's seizure of a British-flagged tanker in the Strait of Hormuz. The ship is the "Stena Impero." It's pictured here.
The incident comes as three sources tell CNN US President Trump has privately adopted a more hawkish tone on Iran in recent days. And an expert says this is the highest security leveling threat in the region, the region that we are in here. We are broadcasting to you from our Middle East hub in UAE in decades.
And the UK government has convened an emergency response meeting. Now, none of this comes out of the blue. Let me give you a bit of wider context.
Just two weeks ago an Iranian-flagged oil tanker seen here was seized by British Commandos off the coast of Gibraltar and Tehran said there would be a response in no uncertain terms.
[17:35:00] Well, let's bring back our Senior International Correspondent Fred Pleitgen. It's been interesting in the past hour or so to get this information, this atmosphere from the White House. Sources telling CNN that the US president is privately taking on a more hawkish tone with regard to Iran.
And we've had an offer from the foreign minister, as he was doing the rounds in New York this week, which is fallen on deaf ears it seems as far as Donald Trump is concerned with regard to uranium enrichment, so where are we at this point?
FRED PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it's extremely dangerous to hear, Becky. And I think, if you -- if we were called, you know, a lot of things that we have been speaking about over the past couple of weeks, the last couple of months since these tensions have really been ramping up is which way is President Trump going to go?
On the one hand, he certainly does seem to, in certain ways, be a hawk and that he obviously got rid of the nuclear agreement at least from the US side. He's ramped up those sanctions. But at the same time, every time it came to military force he was always the one who then took a step back, especially after the Iranians shot down the US drone. And it seemed as though for a very long time, the Iranians knew very well that there were folks who apparently, who are trying to drive him towards a harder line, first and foremost. Of course, John Bolton, the National Security Advisor, possibly also Mike Pompeo, the foreign minister as well, the Secretary of State, of course, as well.
But that President Trump was very reluctant to take action. So if there is a new sort of thinking on the part of President Trump or if he's moving in a different direction, that certainly of course is something that could be very significant.
At the same time, the prospect of talks right now seems a difficult one. One of the things Javad Zarif was saying of course, the Iranians would be willing to commit to new people coming in and inspecting their nuclear sites. But at the same time, they permanently want to permanently want to get rid of sanctions. And that certainly is something that really the Trump administration really seems to have no stomach for at the moment, Becky.
ANDERSON: Fascinating, all right. Thanks, Fred.
Just a short time ago, US President Donald Trump spoke to reporters outside the White House. He had a rather muted response to the seizure of this tanker. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Inaudible)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: Well, as you know, we have a very close alliance with the UK, and we always have. We heard that. The United States has very few tankers going in, because we're using our own energy now. We have made a lot of progress over the last two and a half years. So we don't have many tankers going in, but we have a lot of ships there that are warships.
And we'll talk to the UK. And we have no written agreement, but we have an agreement. They have been a great ally of ours. So we heard about it. We heard it was one, we heard it was two.
And we'll be working with the UK. They'll have a new prime minister soon, which is a good thing, and we'll be working with the UK. But we have no written agreement, but I think we have an agreement which is longstanding.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Let's bring in CNN's Abby Phillip who is at the White House. This latest incident, the seizure of a British tanker in the Strait of Hormuz in the past couple of hours, are extensively the Iranian say because it flouted maritime rules, is clearly a UK issue.
The question is, does the US president see this as a sort of provocation that he has warned Iran of? Particularly after an incident just in the last 24 hours of an Iranian drone hovering over a US warship? Whether or not that was shot down or not? ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Becky, that question is exactly what he was asked today in the gaggle with reporters as he was leaving the White House. And he simply didn't answer the question.
It was about whether or not these latest provocations, both the seizure of these two ships and also the US shooting down the drone, or from the US perspective, shooting down that drone which the Iranians have denied, is crossing that red line.
He warned Iran not long ago to be careful. But the President didn't repeat that kind of warning in his comments to reporters today. And he seemed to downplay the US role in the region.
He emphasized that we don't have as many ships going through the Strait of Hormuz because we are no longer relying on foreign oil as much as we might have in the past. He seemed to imply there might be conversations with the British. But that no decisions have been made yet about how to move forward.
But he did say all of this seems to reinforce what he's been saying about Iran from the beginning which is that the regime really has been up to no good and that the deal that was struck by the Obama administration was not sufficient to reign in their maligned activity in the region.
[17:40:04] But that being said, privately something different might be happening, according to our sources. Now, President Trump is taking a little bit of a different tone on Iran, a little bit more of a hawkish tone because he's come to believe that diplomacy which he's been talking for so long might not be an option anymore.
But, Becky, I don't think that we know for sure whether these particular actions that we've witnessed over the last several days are enough to push the President into a more forceful stance with Iran. But our sources are telling us that all this talk about sitting down with the Iranians, and talking to them has started to recede in the President's mind and he's become a little bit more open to the possibility that the US needs to be more forceful with the regime.
That's a change for the President and it's one that some of his allies who are really opposed to military action are growing concerned about. We just don't know how it's going play out in this particular case.
ANDERSON: Stay with me. I just want to explain, Abby, what we are seeing on the screen. These are the very latest images that we've got in to CNN of the British-flagged tanker that has been seized by the Iranians.
Likely these are file photographs, but this is the tanker that is being seized. As I say, the Iranians suggesting that it was flouting maritime rules, this in the Strait of Hormuz, an incredibly important choke point in what is an extremely busy and important waterway for these fuel tankers around the world, as Abby was pointing out.
Perhaps, the US president believing not as important to the US these days as it is for others. Some 60 percent of the cargo that runs through that Strait of Hormuz, this goes to Asia.
I want to bring up some other images because these are important as well that our viewers see these, Abby. I want to bring up the video that the Iranians have released. This is video of what they say is a drone hovering over the USS Boxer, a drone Donald Trump only 24 hours ago says was jammed, effectively, not shot out of the sky, but destroyed.
The Iranians suggesting that these images prove that that drone was above that boat both before and after the point that Donald Trump suggests it was deactivated.
What more do we know at this point, the White House standing by that statement?
PHILLIP: They are. They are very much standing by their version of the events, which is that this was an Iranian drone and that it was brought down because -- by US forces in the region.
So this is one of those disputes, and I think we've been here before where the Iranian version of events is not lining up with the US' version of events. But in the past, the administration has recognized the need to present their own evidence in cases like this, because there is a lot of misinformation being put out there.
We haven't seen that evidence or all of it, yet. And it's not clear if they will release it. But the fact that the Iranians want to make it seem as if the US is telling the wrong version of events, they're going to be forced into a corner where they're going to have to say something.
And I think that's a position that they've been in before when it comes to some of other ships, and I think they're in it again at this moment.
ANDERSON: Let's have a listen to Donald Trump alluding to that drone and speaking about that drone just a little earlier.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: No doubt about it. No, we shot it down. And of course I'm sitting here behind the desk in the oval office, but John, tell me please. John Bolton, are you there?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BOLTON, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Yes. There's no question that this was an Iranian drone, and the USS Boxer took it down as the president announced yesterday because it posed a threat to the ship and its crew. It was entirely the right thing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: John Bolton, it seems, speaking behind the scenes there. Abby, thank you. Abby Phillip is at the White House for you.
We are going to take a very short break. We'll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:46:19] ANDERSON: Updating you on our top story this hour. Iran's seizure of a British-flagged tanker in the Strait of Hormuz. The ship is the "Stena Impero" pictured here. The US says that Iran also seized a Liberian-flagged ship earlier but Iran says that vessel was stopped and then allowed to continue.
A marine tracking website shows it is now headed west in the Gulf, not north to Iran. Still an expert says, it is clear that this is the highest level security threat in the region in decades. And the UK government has convened an emergency response meeting.
Now, the seizure happened as Gibraltar got approval to detail an Iranian tanker for another month. The Iran's revolutionary guard threatening British shipping after Royal Marines captured the Iranian vessel earlier this month.
David Rohde is a CNN Global Affairs Analyst joining me now from Aspen, Colorado. What do you make of what we are or certainly are hearing about in the Strait of Hormuz in the past couple of hours?
DAVID ROHDE, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Look, I think it's very clear Iranian strategy to disrupt shipping and drive up world oil prices if they can.
You know, initially insurance rates would go up for the ships but their goal, I think is to affect economies and essentially divide the UK and Europe, and the Trump administration, and get the sanctions relief that they want so much.
ANDERSON: A strategy that you think would work, or not?
ROHDE: I think it depends on, you know, oil prices. There are some administration officials, the Trump administration officials who think that these disruptions will not raise oil prices. That there is, you know, it would take many more tankers, you know, being interjected to cause markets to really change, and that this simply won't work, these effort by the Iranians.
But I do think it's a strategy. You know, in the last weeks, they have been much more aggressive. You know, they -- there were the mine incidents with the tankers, there was the shooting down of the American drone, and now this.
And I think it's all an effort to create fear and pressure for negotiations. And then -- now, there are news reports that there are some people in the US, Rand Paul is sort of vying to, you know, maybe negotiate with the Iranians. And there was a report of The New York Times about some Iranians hard liners wanted to start talks.
So, you know, it's a critical moment. If there are going to be talks they have to start soon and move forward quickly.
ANDERSON: There are those who suggested that Iran at one point sort of assumed that this would be a one-term US president in Donald Trump, so they could sort of, you know, they could sit this one out until 2020.
Now the feeling behind the scenes may be that there may be more to come from Donald Trump. I don't know how you feel about how that might have affected their positioning. And let's remind ourselves that there are US, UK, and other citizens being held by Iran at present.
I spoke to the husband of one, Nazanin Ratcliffe, the other day who absolutely describes her being held in Iran as a political pawn.
ROHDE: Yes. There are British, you know, being held captive. There are Americans being held captive, and they are pawns. And this is, you know, it is definitely, you know, an increase in activity by the Iranians and yes, it could be that they've thought maybe Donald Trump would win a second term.
[17:50:00] But I think these sanctions are really hurting them at this point. It would be very easy for them to wait. If you look at sort of China and a trade deal or North Korea, I think those two governments are sort of waiting out the Trump administration.
And they're, you know, they're fine for now economically. They're not under pressure for a deal. Something is driving the Iranians to sort of push these things and to be so aggressive. There's no question they have been the most provocative in the last few weeks.
So it could be the sanctions. They could think that, you know, again, if they can move these oil prices, the US will blink. So there's tremendous focus now on the White House, but what's interesting is that Britain is caught in the middle of this, and it's spreading.
I think, again, that's part of the Iranian strategy is to spread the pain and put pressure on Trump and Europe and the UK.
ANDERSON: Yes, fascinating. At a time when the Iranians certainly perceive the UK as weak so far as its politics and politicians are concerned. Thank you, sir.
I'm going take a very, very short break. And we'll be back straight after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: More on our breaking news this hour. At nearly five to 2:00 in the morning in the UAE, Iran's seizure of a British-flagged tanker in the Strait of Hormuz.
Let's get to Richard Meade. He was Managing Editor of Lloyd's List, an expert on the shipping industry. This is what you told CNN about the seizure of this British-flagged tanker. You said it's creating "probably the highest level security threat that we have seen in the region since the late 1980s."
That is a pretty unequivocal statement. Can you drill down and explain exactly how you get there?
RICHARD MEADE, MANAGING EDITOR, LLOYD'S LIST: Well, certainly. I mean, we have seen this region be a very tense hot spot, collectively speaking, for some time, and certainly see threats have been raised on and off over the years.
Last time we saw the shipping industry come directly under fire as a result of this heightened political tension, standoff, was really in the tanker war of the late '80s, where we saw tankers being directly targeted. Since then we have had security snafus and we have had raised tensions but nothing like this.
[17:54:57] We have not seen international shipping being effectively hijacked out of international waters on a basis like this, for as long as I can remember. It's quite a scary situation.
ANDERSON: And the consequence of that is -- yes. And the consequence of that, aside from the obvious, which is ratcheting up of these geopolitics. What are the consequences of this sort of security threat at this point?
MEADE: Well, for shipping, I mean, the threat is direct. I mean, if you -- you understand that the Strait of Hormuz is a very, very busy passage of water that covers a lot of national boundaries. It's responsible for a significant weight of the world's energy suppliers.
And we have got multiple nationalities passing through it on an hourly basis. If that Strait is now considered to be a serious security threat with shipping as a result of these actions, then it's not just a question of raising insurance and, you know, the odd bit of military hardware being put into position.
Shipping is now directly under threat and we are going to have to see some responses from the naval assets in the region to try and protect the energy security of the region.
ANDERSON: And the US has been asking its allies in the region to cooperate in a maritime security operation. I don't want to suggest that the responses being tepid. But certainly the US saying, they're not going to secure this shipping area on their own.
Just what does it take? What sort of capacity would it take to ensure that all cargo and all vessels that were operating in this area were secure and safe?
MEADE: Well, the coalition that you refer to, the US idea was to put together a military, a naval coalition of forces of countries that have energy assets in the region. And that has received tepid results from national governments, largely because there is a real fear that putting more naval assets into an already escalated security situation within a very narrow band of water is only going to heighten the political risk.
Now, it will be interesting to see where the willingness of other countries is now increased as a result of this action. I mean, the UK itself had HMS Montrose in the region, it accelerated the deployment of HMS Duncan, a second ship, and a third is on its way.
But they weren't operating on a basis of naval escorts, in the same way that we saw off of the eastern seaboard of (inaudible) at the height of the Somali pirating crisis.
So this is a very different threat, because it is a very different body of water where securing ships is much more difficult.
ANDERSON: Richard, we're going to leave it there, but we appreciate the insight. Your analysis is extremely important.
We'll have you back on breaking news this hour, the seizure of the British tanker by the Iranians. More on that after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:00:00]
