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CNN Live Event/Special
Democratic Leaders Respond to Rules Change at Press Conference. Aired 11-11:30a ET
Aired January 21, 2020 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:00:36]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer, with Jake Tapper. We're live from Washington for CNN's special live coverage of the impeachment trial of President Donald J. Trump. Anderson Cooper is here in the nation's capital. Dana Bash is leading our coverage from Capitol Hill.
And any moment now, we expect to hear from the Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer. In fact, he's there right now.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Good morning, everyone.
Now, one thing before I get started on the issue at hand. The Supreme Court just announced that it would delay ruling on the administration's lawsuit against our health care law.
It's a sharp reminder to the American people that while all this important business is going on, the President and the Republican Party is trying to take away Americans health care. Woe is us if they succeed, either this year or next year.
Now, let's get to the issue at hand. As you all know, President Trump is accused of coercing a foreign leader into interfering in our elections to benefit himself and then doing everything in his power to cover it up. It proved the President's actions are crimes against democracy itself. It cannot be overstated how serious this charge is.
If Americans start believing that foreigners can affect and elect presidents or senators or governors, if foreigners can interfere in elections and determine the outcome instead of the American people determining the outcome, our democracy has vastly eroded. People will stop losing -- start losing faith in elections and the very wellspring and foundation of this grand and great nation that the founding fathers established more than 200 years ago.
So the charges -- these are the charges we're being asked to try. For anyone who says "oh, this isn't serious or this is done all the time," no way. This President, in his abuse of power, is unfortunately unique and willing to abuse his power with fewer conscious qualms and far more readily and easily than any President we have seen and by a long shot. And the only power that the American people have when a President abuses power, other than elections, is this impeachment process. We take it very seriously -- very seriously. So, once Senator Inhofe is sworn in this afternoon, the ceremonial functions at the beginning of the presidential impeachment trial will be complete. The Senate must then determine the rules of the trial.
The Republican Leader will offer an organizing resolution that outlines his plan for the rules of the trial, which was only released last night. Amazingly waited until the very end and now we see why. It is completely partisan, it was kept secret until the eve of the trial, and now that it's finally been made public, it's obvious to see why Leader McConnell was keeping it so close to his vest, because the McConnell rules seem to be designed by President Trump, for President Trump, simply executed by Leader McConnell and Senate Republicans.
It appears that Leader McConnell decided to go along with the President's desire to cover up his wrongdoing, hook, line and sinker. It almost seems that the resolution was written in the White House, not the Senate. The McConnell resolution's a blueprint for an impeachment trial on fast forward. It asks the Senate to sprint through the trial as fast as possible and makes getting evidence as hard as possible.
The bottom line? Leader McConnell wants the process rushed with as little evidence as possible in the dark of night.
[11:05:00]
He pushes the arguments into the wee hours of the night so American people won't see them. In short, again, the McConnell resolution will result in a rushed trial with little evidence in the dead of night.
If the President is so confident in his case, then why won't he present it in broad daylight? If Leader McConnell and the Republican senators who have said "he's done nothing wrong, it's perfect," why not while the sun is shining instead of at 2:00 am? Well, it's pretty obvious -- it's pretty obvious why not.
On something as important as impeachment, McConnell's resolution is nothing short of a national disgrace and it will go down in history as one of the very dark days of the Senate, not living up to its responsibility, in obeisance to the president, not the truth.
Leader McConnell promised his trial rules -- you've heard this for weeks. "Let's enact the same rules as the Clinton trial rules." He said, "We're going to get started in exactly the same way."
It turns out the McConnell rules are not even close to the Clinton rules, and there are many places where that happens.
Unlike the Clinton rules, the McConnell resolution does not admit the record of the House impeachment proceedings into evidence. So McConnell seems to want a trial with no existing evidence and no new evidence -- no evidence. You can understand why. It's because he's afraid of evidence. So is President Trump. So are the presidents' men. A trial with no evidence is not a trial at all. It's a cover-up.
Second, unlike the Clinton rules, the McConnell resolution limits presentation by the parties to 24 hours per side over only two days. Leader McConnell wants to force the managers to make important parts of their case in the dead of night. I've read the brief. It's about 45 pages. I commend to each of you, it's a powerful document, very hard to rebut. In fact, the president's brief doesn't even attempt to rebut it.
Next, the McConnell resolution prohibits motions to subpoena witnesses or documents until after the senators' question period. And even then, it requires the Senate to overcome an additional hurdle by voting to determine whether motions to subpoena witnesses and documents are in order.
So we've had some senators say, "Well, I'm going to vote for McConnell's resolution, but later I might vote for witnesses and documents." McConnell's very resolution puts many obstacles in the path of getting witnesses and documents even later.
So Republican senators, don't fool us. Don't say you want to make it easy to vote for witnesses and documents at the end of the trial if you vote for this resolution. It makes it a lot harder.
And finally, unlike the Clinton rules, the McConnell resolution allows a motion to dismiss at any time during the trial.
Now, we thought that the Clinton rules shouldn't apply; they were unfair to us. McConnell kept hugging the Clinton rules as his defense, but we now see that he didn't mean it, that what he wants to do is simply cover up for President Trump.
So, starting this afternoon, immediately after Leader McConnell introduces his resolution, I will be offering amendments to fix its many flaws. The first amendment I will offer will ask that the Senate subpoena White House documents related to the charges against the president.
Those documents include the records of meetings and calls between President Trump and the president of Ukraine, as well as those records created or received by Mr. Mulvaney, Mr. Bolton, Mr. Blair and other White House personnel about the decision to hold and release the military assistance to Ukraine.
It's very possible, even likely, that some of these communications may have been with President Trump, between him and these people. That's why they're so important. No one can argue that these documents are not directly related to the charges against the president and should be reviewed by the Senate.
[11:10:00]
The witnesses I've requested have gotten a lot of attention, and rightfully so. The documents are of equal importance. People should understand that the documents can shed as much light on why the aid was cut off, who did it and how it evolved, as the witnesses. And we feel very strongly that we need documents, and that's why it's our first call.
I will then -- the -- the -- I will then offer a series of amendments on the documents we requested, the witnesses we requested and amendments to fix the most egregious departure that McConnell made in his proposed resolution from the Clinton rules.
Let me be clear. We have no intention to be dilatory. There is no guarantee that Leader McConnell will allow these votes to take place later in the trial. So now, before any resolution passes, we must do it. We feel this is an obligation we have to the Constitution, to outline what a fair trial would be. To not go along with a cover-up, with a sham trial. And we will do it, we will do it.
Right off the bat, Republican senators will face a choice about getting the facts or joining Leader McConnell and President Trump in trying to cover them up. This is a historic moment. The eyes of America are watching. Republican senators must rise to the occasion.
Senator Durbin? You're not on here, but -- oh yes.
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Thank you, Senator Schumer.
From this very first day of the impeachment trial, we learned that Senator McConnell -- for Senator McConnell, political loyalty to this president is more important than respect for the Constitution, the integrity of the Senate and standards of common decency and decorum, which have been prevalent in this body from its start.
With this organizing resolution, outlining the course of the trial, Senator McConnell and those who enable him demonstrate that Republicans believe the American people are not entitled to judge for themselves whether President Trump abused the power of his office and obstructed this Congress in the discharge of its constitutional duties.
Senator McConnell and those who enable him believe that if they hurry the proceedings, restrict the evidence, limit the witnesses and force the whole enterprise into the midnight hour, they can conceal misconduct by the president.
They believe the American people will not take notice. They're wrong. The American people are not asleep at the wheel of this democracy. They are wide awake to any senator or president who disrespects their constitutional duties or claims to be above the law.
Donald John Trump, the impeached president, insists he is innocent, a victim of a witch hunt, a cruel hoax. Yet this president is unable and unwilling to produce any evidence or any witness in his own defense. Instead, America is subjected to an endless blizzard of mindless tweets from the White House and the ravings of the president's trusted legal counsel, the former mayor of New York City. For Senator McConnell and those who enable him, this self-serving foolishness passes for a credible defense. Under the principles of American justice, of course, the accused -- in this case, the president -- cannot be compelled to testify. But the McConnell resolution goes to the extreme of attempting to limit the House managers from introducing into evidence the documents and sworn testimony that were produced even in the House impeachment proceedings.
This McConnell resolution directly contravenes the rules followed in the Clinton impeachment trial. As of this morning, a majority of Americans are calling for this president to be impeached and removed from office. Even Senator McConnell's loyalty to this president and his corruption of this Senate trial cannot escape this stark reality.
If Senator McConnell has his way, critical moments in this trial may not see the light of day, but they will not escape the light of history.
SCHUMER: Senator Murray?
SEN. PATTY MURRAY (D-WA): Well, thank you very much.
[11:15:00]
Last week, my colleagues and I signed our names in the official Senate record, affirming our promise to, quote, "do impartial justice." It was a sobering experience, especially since Senator McConnell has explicitly said he would do the complete opposite.
He said no to impartial justice, in spite of the careful and thorough investigation the House conducted, in spite of President Trump's unprecedented stonewalling, which denied Congress access to key material witnesses and documents directly related to the president's actions during the House investigation, in spite of the president's continued refusal to provide any credible defense against the allegations against him, including in the trial brief we saw this weekend.
And the majority leader's position has not changed despite new evidence, made public in recent days, which lays out a complex web of falsehoods and corruption surrounding the president's actions in Ukraine.
And now, as the trial begins, as new evidence comes out and after each of us has reaffirmed our most solemn responsibilities to our states and our country, it is clear people across the country are watching this carefully. And they are deeply concerned our president may have demanded a foreign government interfere in our next election to help him in his campaign.
They want to know all the relevant testimony and evidence is being considered, and the Senate is acting fairly rather than staging a cover-up. So I hope Republican senators remember that they have a choice. I hope they choose to recognize we cannot do our job as senators to, quote, "do impartial justice" without key documents and witness testimony that has so far been hidden from the public.
And I hope they choose to work with Democrats to make sure fairness and honestly is in this process because that is what the people we represent deserve.
And I want to make one more point. The president's actions are on trial, but the United States Senate is on trial too. I've heard many Republicans say they want a trial modeled after the Clinton impeachment trial. But I would remind all of us that at the end of that trial, no one doubted the Senate had acted fairly and honorably.
That's the truly critical test before us in this institution, beginning today. And to be clear, we will fail that test with dead-of- night rushed cover-up resolution like the one Majority Leader McConnell has put forward.
We all need to remember the oath we took and act in ways that prove the Senate and all of our democratic institutions are worthy of the public's trust, now and for generations to come. We all need to vote today for evidence and fairness, not a sham designed to protect an impeached president from the facts.
Thank you.
SCHUMER: Thank you, Senator Murray.
Senator Stabenow?
SEN. DEBBIE STABENOW (D-MI): Thank you.
Mitch McConnell's resolution is appalling and so is the defense being put forward by the White House. They don't dispute that there was a phone call with a new, young leader in desperate need of support from the United States in his military efforts against Russia.
They don't dispute that there was a threat to withhold funding on that phone call, if, in fact, the new young leader did not do what the president wanted.
They don't dispute the fact that they withheld the funds after the phone call, even though the watchdog for the Congress, the General Accounting Office, has clearly said it is illegal, which they are not disputing either.
It seems to me they are using the Mick Mulvaney defense. "Yes, the president did the call. Yes, he withheld the money. The president can do whatever he wants. Get over it."
No president is above the law, and that's what this trial's about.
SCHUMER: Questions on this subject? Yes?
QUESTION: Senator, can you meet (ph) any outrage to people like Senator Collins, people like Senator Murkowski, Romney, Alexander, individuals who might actually be able to get through the votes (ph)... SCHUMER; Look, senators talk to senators all the time, and there are lots of conversations going on. I'm not going to get into any individual conversations.
QUESTION: Senator?
SCHUMER: Yes?
QUESTION: What is your plan, assuming any, sort of, documents or witness testimony moves forward, if the White House asserts executive privilege?
[11:20:00]
SCHUMER: Look, if the White House tries to exert executive privilege on an order that passes by definition in a bipartisan way and is signed by the chief justice of the Supreme Court on a subpoena, I think that the courts would look very favorably on that.
QUESTION: Should (inaudible) withdraw as the president's counsel as House Democrats have asked?
SCHUMER: I'm not going to tell the president who should be his counsel. But I respect very much the conflict of interest that was outlined in the letter that the House managers put together.
Yes?
QUESTION: If you're talking about working with both (inaudible) in your words, the resolution (inaudible) or are you really focusing on (inaudible) with the 12 hours a day?
SCHUMER: Well, wait and see.
QUESTION: On that question, during this trial, if, unusually, you will not be able to make arguments, necessarily, and your own motions, do you expect House managers to make arguments?
And do you expect them to use the whole one hour of debate time making...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHUMER: Well, first, you know, it's -- some of the motions that -- or the amendments I'll be making to the McConnell resolution are pretty obvious. Three weeks ago I outlined to Leader McConnell the need for three sets of documents and four witnesses.
And so the Senate managers obviously know all about them, and, you know, they're a very capable group. And they seem -- said publicly they've been totally supportive of those things that we asked for. So I expect they'll make very strong arguments. And there's a lot to say.
QUESTION: Do you think they'll need two hours for every amendment, or one hour per side? SCHUMER: Well, it is one hour per side. That's what the rules of the Senate prescribe, the rules of impeachment prescribe. It'll be up to them if they use it all. I would hope they'd make strong arguments and not try to cut back. It's too important.
QUESTION: Leader Schumer, what is your message to (inaudible)? Senator Romney has already said he won't support any kind of changes to this organizing resolution that would include trying to get witnesses baked in at the beginning of the trial. What's your message...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHUMER: Look, he said that. I have a great deal of respect for Senator Romney. I would urge him -- I hope he has carefully read the McConnell resolution. Because he's always said he thinks there should be witnesses at the end of the trial, and this makes it harder to even get those.
QUESTION: Senator Schumer, how many...
SCHUMER: You went already once, I'm sorry. Try to share the wealth.
QUESTION: Senator Schumer, it strikes me that House Republicans were very upset with the process, complained about it being rushed. Isn't this the latest example of it stinks to be the minority party in Congress?
SCHUMER: No. We're doing our constitutional job and we're proud of the job that we're doing. And it's sort of ironic, Leader McConnell at the same moment he says the House trial was rushed seeks to rush the Senate trial far more severely than the House trial was.
QUESTION: Senator Schumer, on the subject of transparency, would you sign off on the rule to (inaudible) on the second floor...
SCHUMER: No.
QUESTION: And what's your comment on the ability...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHUMER: My comment, I want to see the press have as much access as possible, would be my view. It should be similar to one normal day. But I did not -- I was not asked about them and didn't sign off on them.
Yes?
QUESTION: (inaudible) members of your caucus to deal with (inaudible)?
SCHUMER: Well, we've had plenty of discussions. And we go over the process and what is happening. And I -- we have a great caucus lunch every Tuesday. And large numbers of members participate. And I would like to believe and I think I do that we sort of come to an amalgam, lots of suggestions they make we incorporate into what our caucus view and position should be. So we do it all the time.
QUESTION: (inaudible) some of the provisions in the draft resolution (inaudible) motion to dismiss...
SCHUMER: Yes.
QUESTION: ... before anything has been presented.
SCHUMER: Yes.
QUESTION: That's a departure from...
SCHUMER: Yes.
QUESTION: (inaudible). Is your position with a vote to either (inaudible) or change those rules with regards to (inaudible) as opposed to...
SCHUMER: No, because these are -- this is governed by the rules of impeachment, which are separate from the Senate rules.
QUESTION: (inaudible)
SCHUMER: No, you went.
(LAUGHTER)
Anyone else who hasn't gone.
Yes, nice quiet lady over there who doesn't...
(LAUGHTER)
QUESTION: Do you have a plan to have votes for each -- do you plan to separate out the...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHUMER: You'll see. Wait and see. We are going to have votes on the issues I mentioned, witnesses, documents, egregious rollbacks from the -- even the Clinton rules, which we thought were unfair. And -- you know, but we're not going to try to be dilatory and have a hundred amendments just to delay things.
QUESTION: How many amendments?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHUMER: Oh, you're persistent.
QUESTION: (inaudible)
SCHUMER: Yes.
QUESTION: Could you talk about basing (inaudible) some of the more competitive 2020...
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: No. No, I mean, we're doing this because we think we have a constitutional duty to do it. We think that this is, this is what the founding fathers looked at when they said, what -- how do we deal with a president who has abused his power, who has dramatically overreached, who was gone off-track?
[11:25:00]
And they came to the conclusion you couldn't wait four years. And that is why this is so serious, so solemn, so grave. That is how we feel. And the American public seems to agree with us. But that is our motivation. And that is why, you know, even the witnesses we've asked for, we don't know what they will say.
This idea that these witnesses are Democratic plants, they're the president's appointees. The documents are written by the president's people. And maybe they will be exculpatory or maybe they will be further incriminating. But we will rest easy if we know we have required the truth to come out.
Unfortunately, in the minority, that is not solely up to us. We need four Republicans who are willing to stand up for what is right, who are willing to stand up for what America wants and needs and not simply bow down to the president, who, you know, most Americans know what this guy is all about. Do most Americans really believe he wants a fair trial? I don't think so.
Thank you, everybody.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, that was Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York, and the Democratic Senate leadership talking about their issues with the way that the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is running the trial.
And Schumer saying he's going to introduce a series of amendments to try to push back and change the rules that McConnell is introducing.
Those amendments will include a subpoena for documents from the White House. There will also be another amendment on witnesses and another amendment on what Senator Schumer refers to as the most egregious rollbacks of the rules that were set in 21 years ago during the 1999 Clinton impeachment.
Let me bring in Dana Bash right now.
Dana, right now, this is all very fluid. We don't know exactly when Schumer will introduce the amendments. We're expecting McConnell to introduce the rule at 1:00 p.m. Eastern. It is not clear whether Schumer will introduce the amendments right after that or a few hours after that.
But clearly this is going to be a day of bitter and partisan fighting. DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, strap in. That was
the takeaway from what we just saw and heard from the top Democrats in the Senate.
Trying to bend over backwards to say they're not going to do what we will see on the Senate floor very shortly. Because they're trying to delay the trial, they're trying to introduce the resolutions and motions you referred to, Jake, to get fairness.
And he argued that if they don't try to do it now, then the trial will get under way, they're going to begin with opening arguments from the House managers, from the president's defense team and so on and so forth. And they won't have a real chance once the time that McConnell has prescribed for witnesses comes, because it is not towards the end.
But, again, going back to what we have been talking about all morning, the language he used, the language that Dick Durbin, the number-two Senator used about cover-up, about fair trial.
Dick Durbin was noteworthy, they're trying to send a message to the American public. But more specifically, for potential Republican Senators to vote with them on the resolutions, enable him, don't enable him, meaning Mitch McConnell. That was the plea from Dick Durbin, the number-two Senate Democrat.
Also noteworthy that Chuck Schumer, when asked about Mitt Romney, one of the potential four Republican votes, he was very gracious, trying to, you know he, say, oh, I have a lot of respect for him, he's got to understand what is going on here.
That's the audience here in the capitol, at the four potential Republican Senators that they are trying to reach, with what we're going to see on the Senate floor, probably a lot of chaos frankly.
And then, more importantly, the public to call in, voters to call in to the Senate offices to try to put pressure on them.
TAPPER: That's right.
And Dana Bash, thank you very much.
Wolf, the idea being Democrats feel like they have a good argument to make, which is we just want witnesses and evidence. That's what we want. Republicans don't want that. We want witnesses and evidence.
BLITZER: And, John, it is interesting that Schumer says he needs four Republicans to go ahead and join the 47 Democrats. You get 51 in order to call witnesses right at the beginning of the process, get that done with. He says if you wait until after the opening arguments from both sides, it is going to be much more difficult.
But it is based on everything we're hearing, those four Republicans, including Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, and some others, they might be open to witnesses, but only after they hear the opening arguments, not necessarily right now. JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Schumer and the Democrats
will lose round one. That's pretty clear. Their challenge is make your case.
[11:30:03]
One of the delicate parts of that challenge, don't over-make your case, in the sense that part of McConnell's gamble here is this becomes very political, hyperpolitical out of the block, and people go it their corners. And that even Collins, even Mitt Romney, potentially Lamar Alexander, who might be open. Saying you're open to witnesses doesn't mean you're committed to witnesses.
