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CNN Live Event/Special

House Impeachment Managers to Present Opening Statements; Trump Officials Started to Freeze Ukraine Aid Before Call; House Impeachment Managers Speak as Senate Trial Begins. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 22, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:29]

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Welcome back to CNN's special coverage of the impeachment trial of President Donald Trump. I'm Dana Bash on Capitol Hill. And I'm joined by two very important people on the CNN team. They are two of actually number of people who have been inside the Senate chamber. Jeremy Herb and Clare Foran are with me now.

And one of the main reasons why we wanted to have you on is just to underscore as I come to you, we have not seen and we will not see as viewers, the senators, jurors because of the rules that the Senate majority leader put in place. You see the people speaking, you see the chief justice and none of the senators. You don't see their reactions at all.

So we have to go in old school and rotate into the gallery in order to observe what is happening. And you two have been in there a lot. Jeremy, you were in there until what time this morning?

JEREMY HERB, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Gaveled out about 1:50, I was still there, so.

BASH: So you have really had a sense of how these senators are acting and reacting. What's your take away?

HERB: Yes, that's right. And, you know, it is notable that, you know, in addition to not having cameras that can focus on the senators, we don't have phones in the chamber, we don't have computers so we're just taking notes with pen and paper and trying to watch what these senators are doing as, you know, the presentations having going on. And as the night wore on, they did get more and more restless. You could see there was kind of an area on the side of the chamber, kind of in the back corner and more and more senators started congregating there especially after the night past midnight. So some of them to try to stay awake and we saw senators, couple of them, their eyes kind of you see go shut.

You know, there were tricks to try to fight boredom, people were drawing, people were fidgeting, spinning, spinning glasses, spinning pens, just trying to do anything they could to stay awake. And lots of them were also kind of popping food, all sorts of things they're not supposed to be doing because they're supposed to be in their seats and listening and not talking.

But those rules were definitely relaxed at the end of the night.

BASH: Right, because the rules are supposed to be, they sit in their chair and they listen. And they can't take electronics in either and they can only take materials related to the trial.

I was in there for just a short while, Clare, and wonder what your thoughts was about sort of who was paying the closest attention. And what I saw when I was there were the senators for whom it has the most impact politically, how they act and react.

Cory Gardner of Colorado was there taking notes, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, these were all Republicans who are kind of on the bubble, not on the final but on how to proceed with witnesses.

CLARE FORAN, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: They were a lot of, as you said, some of these more vulnerable senators who were taking really close attention. You know, Cory Gardner had a stack of post-it notes on his desk, I could see him, you know, scribbling handwritten comments on the margins of his -- he had a whole stack of papers on his desk. Collins, Susan Collins was also taking really close notes. And then there was lot of other senators too who, you know, just had a mixture of highlighters, pens kind of making notes.

Of course, it's hard to know exactly what they were writing or if everything was related to the trial. But there were certainly a number of senators that did seemed like they were trying really hard to pay attention.

BASH: And you also were able to see another thing that we can't see on the cameras, which is when the defense -- the president's defense team is up speaking and, you know, taking some jabs at the managers and vice-versa, we can't see the reaction but you could.

HERB: Yes, that's right. Now, particularly toward the end of the night, Jerry Nadler and the president's lawyers got into it back and forth and Nadler went after the president's lawyers, the Republicans hard and then they went back and really were taking it to Nadler pointing at Nadler, you know, calling him effectively a liar. And Nadler sat there stone-faced, and this is something you couldn't catch on camera, he looked straight ahead, he was looking at his aides, he had a pen in his hand, he was taking notes but he did not engage with the lawyers which is just -- it's an interesting little bit of color of how this is playing out.

You know, these guys are not far apart. Those tables that they're sitting on not more than maybe 10 feet from where the speakers are going to. A potential for some real interactions but it didn't happen at least at that moment yesterday.

BASH: Jeremy and Clare, thank you for bringing us what we can't see on TV. I know you guys are writing a lot for cnn.com and we can see a lot of what you observed there as well.

We're waiting to hear from the House managers, they are going to speak we believe momentarily. We're going to take a quick break of CNN's coverage of the impeachment trial of President Trump. We'll be right back.

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[12:39:19]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: We are just moments away from the U.S. Senate re-starting the president's impeachment trial. The chief justice of the United States John Roberts has just arrived to preside over that trial.

Meantime, some new potential evidence has surfaced. Evidence on the issue of aid to Ukraine, evident that puts new light on the timeline of the decision. This evidence is in new e-mails released by the Office of Management and Budget after being requested through the Freedom of Information Act.

Our Sara Murray is here. Sara, these are heavily redacted e-mails but what are we learning from them?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: They are heavily redacted but, you know, it's telling that while the president's lawyers were arguing that they shouldn't have to provide these documents, that the Office of Management and Budget was handing them over to the group American Oversight as part of this FOIA lawsuit, and they do shed more light on the timeline around the president's call with the Ukrainian president and the move to freeze this aid to Ukraine.

[12:40:12]

There was a July 24th e-mail where a Ukraine prep memo is provided to Michael Duffy, he's the OMB official who carried out that freeze at the Office of Management and Budget. Now the content of the e-mail is redacted but the timing is interesting. It shows how these budget officials were laying the groundwork to freeze the funds the night before the president's call. While the president was on the phone with the president of Ukraine the next day, OMB officials are talking amongst themselves about whether they have secured what is known as a footnote which is the technical device to actually freeze the money. So they're confirming that that is all lined up.

And we know from previous document dumps that just 90 minutes after the president talked to the Ukrainian president, OMB had notified the Pentagon that they needed to freeze this money

The other interesting thing that was in these documents is that there were Republican lawmakers who were concerned about what was going on with this money before it was publicly known that it was frozen. So these four Republican lawmakers all reached out to the Office of Management and Budget basically to say, hey, we're hearing this money is frozen, what's happening, what's happening. Because these nearly 200 pages of documents are so heavily redacted, we don't know how OMB responded.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Sara Murray reporting for us. Thank you very much.

In just moments, opening arguments begin in President Trump's impeachment trial. Our special live coverage continues right after this.

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[12:46:12]

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lev Parnas has come forward and said that you knew everything that he was doing.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a con man. OK. Are you ready? Let me answer that one. I don't know him other than he's sort of like a groupie, he shows up at fundraisers. OK. So I don't know anything about him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: This person Trump today calling, Lev Parnas, one of Rudy Giuliani's associates, who spent a lot of time with Giuliani, the one cooperating with the House investigators in Ukraine scandal investigation, groupies. CNN's Dana bash on Capitol Hill.

Dana, I mean, we've -- the president has repeatedly said he didn't know Lev Parnas, Parnas and his attorney have been, you know, obviously releasing photographs and videos of the time that they have spent together. It is clear though Rudy Giuliani certainly did spend a lot of time with Lev Parnas.

And we're seeing the House managers there. Let's listen in.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): -- and answer a couple questions before we begin our presentation today.

Yesterday, we feel that we laid out a very powerful case for why this trial should be no different than any other trial in America. It should involve the calling of witnesses, it should involve the production of documents. The House should have the opportunity to prove its case.

And if we prove our case, the Senate should convict and remove the president from office. But the Senate should allow us a fair trial. The Senate should allow us a trial that is fair to the American people, one that allows the House to call relevant witnesses. One thing that was clearly established yesterday is the Senate is not a court of appeals. That was conceded albeit in the wee hours of the morning by the president's own team, the Senate is not a court of appeals that must deal with a dry record from the court below. There is no court below. The House charged the president. The Senate tries the case, a trial involves witnesses, if it is fair. And we laid out exactly why these witnesses are important, what we expect they would have to say, we laid out all the documents that the administration is withholding and how the senators, if they're doing impartial justice, should want to see those documents. The president late last night or early this morning depending where you are in the world, the bragged that he thought things were going well because they had all the materials. Well, in due, indeed they do have the material hidden from the American people. That is nothing to brag about.

And if the senators are serious about wanting to learn all the facts, if the president's team wants to contest any of the facts, these documents and witnesses will need to be produced. Let the American people hear what John Bolton has to say. Let the people hear what Mick Mulvaney has to say or Secretary Pompeo or any of the other witnesses with relevant information. They want to know. The American people overwhelmingly want to hear from these witnesses, and for a very good reason, because they can shed light on the president's misconduct.

So today we -- yesterday, we made the case for the witnesses and the documents. Today, we will begin our trial with the factual chronology. We will go into extensive detail about what happened and when and how we know that it happened. We do not assume that everyone in the Senate was able to watch all of the House testimony. Some of you in the press were able to do that. We cannot assume the senators were able to do that even as we were, let alone that the American people were able to do so.

So we will lay out all the facts and chronology and new facts could continue to come to light. And we believe we will make an overwhelming case for the president's conviction on both Article I and Article II. And with that, I'm happy to take a few questions.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Nadler, did Republicans have been going --

SCHIFF: I'm going to respond to the questions.

RAJU: OK. Well, Mr. Nadler has been criticized by Republicans, Mr. Schiff --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you open to, in principle, a witness exchange, say that Republicans can for instance call on Hunter Biden?

[12:50:02]

SCHIFF: This isn't like some fantasy football trade like I said yesterday. This isn't we will offer you this if you'll give us that, we'll offer you a witness that is irrelevant and immaterial. There has no relevant testimony but a witness that will allows us to smear a presidential candidate if you want to get a legitimate witness. That's not a trade. Trials aren't trades for witnesses.

We offered last night to have the chief justice of the Supreme Court rule on a question of materiality for any of the witnesses. And you know something, not surprisingly, the president's team was vehemently opposed, not because the president's team doesn't trust the chief justice to make an impartial decision but because they do trust the chief justice to make an impartial decision about materiality. That's not what they want.

They want to smear Biden, they want to effectuate the scheme that they were unable to do when they tried to get Ukraine to smear the Bidens, they want to use this trial to smear the Bidens. That's not the purpose of the trial and the senators should not allow it to be abused in that way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- people are listening to your arguments or have they made up their minds?

SCHIFF: Well, look, I can't speak for the senators. I would hope that they have an open mind. As I said yesterday, whatever they may have thought in the past, whatever they may have said in the past, there's an event of constitutional dimension that supersedes all of that. And that is the oath that they took at the beginning of this trial. So I have to hope that some, if not all of the senators, will abide by that oath, and will hear us with an open mind.

But even if they don't, I do expect the American people are watching, and I think the American people are listening, and they do have an open mind. And as those Americans we're talking to also. As I said before, we're trying this case to two juries, the Senate and the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- from the chief justice last night change anything about how you prepare and present your arguments?

SCHIFF: Well, look, when you schedule a trial as Mitch McConnell did, that's designed to be hidden in the dead of night, where you require litigants who are going at it for the entire day to go into the wee hours, you're going to have tempers flare. That happens in every courtroom in America as well. But we are going to try to keep focused on the facts. The president's team would like nothing more than to provoke a bitter conflict. We're not going to let them.

The facts are damning, we're going to be lay them out in great detail in our chronology today. Thank you very much.

COOPER: It's the House manager Adam Schiff or Congressman Schiff and the other House managers. They will now be proceeding inside. I'm joined again by Dana Bash who's on Capitol Hill.

Dana, just talk a little bit about what viewers should expect, how the day is going to play out.

BASH: Well, you're going to hear the team start to make the case. I mean, what we have not seen yet is the -- we've seen a lot of substance let's just say. Substance sort of tucked into process and how the trial should be conducted. I saw that until almost 2:00 in the morning this morning. And now, you're going to start to hear that the sides actually make their cases for the next really six days. And they're going to do it pretty much uninterrupted. I mean, they were going to have different members of each team do that.

And this is going to be the time whereas you just heard, Adam Schiff say, they are going to try to narrow down the case for and against the president's impeachment in a way that, you know, they were able to do kind of chunks of it, as part of the amendments that the Democrats were putting forward yesterday. This is going to be kind of the whole ballgame for them until we get to probably early next week when the senators have their time to ask questions and then following that, the potential for votes on witnesses.

So, if you want to know -- if you're at home watching and you want to know what the cases for and against impeachment are and the best foot forward that each of these sides have, now is the time to start tuning in.

COOPER: Yes, opening arguments begin in just moments. Stand by.

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[12:57:53]

BLITZER: Hello and welcome to CNN's special coverage of the impeachment trial of President Donald J. Trump. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

TAPPER: And I'm Jake Tapper. Dana Bash is also with us live from Capitol Hill.

After the first day of debates and rebuttals went into the early hours overnight, the Senate is getting straight to work on day two. Any moment we expect Democrats to begin presenting their opening arguments starting with House impeachment managers. And they will have three days to make their case. Moments ago, we heard Congressman Adam Schiff, the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, pleading once again, for witnesses to be allowed later in this Senate trial.

BLITZER: And this morning, the president's legal team decided against filing a motion to dismiss the charges which is what the president publicly demanded but the strategy lacked support among several Republican senators.

TAPPER: As senators gavel in this hour, President Trump is attempting to defend his legal team while at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. He seemingly boasted about White House efforts to withhold key documents from the Congress, saying, quote, we have all the material, they don't have the material.

BLITZER: And, you know, Jake, let's not forget about the historic importance of what we're seeing here in Washington right now. Only the third time in American history that a president of the United States is facing an impeachment trial in the U.S. Senate.

TAPPER: 1868, 1999, and now 2020, and, of course, it has never happened that a U.S. -- that the Senate has removed a president from office. We've had impeachments before but never a removal from office. One of the things that's also interesting is, today, as the House impeachment managers begin to lay out their case, it will be different in some ways from the case we heard them lay out during the House impeachment inquiry because since the House impeached President Trump, more evidence has come forward. That's what happens when the White House has done everything it can to hold back evidence, hold back witnesses.

We have new evidence including just today, the group, the Freedom of Information Act group, American Oversight, getting new documents from the Office of Management and Budget revealing more about the timetable to withhold that aid from Ukraine tied, at least it looks like, according to --

[13:00:00]