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No Phones Allowed for Trump's Remarks at RNC Meeting; Trump Opens Door to Cuts to Medicare, Entitlements; House Dems Will Lay Out Abuse of Power Case Against Trump. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 23, 2020 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[12:30:36]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: President Trump often tweeting once again today mostly about the ongoing Senate trial, but they a lot -- he'll have to go a long way to beat the record he set yesterday. Look at this, 142 tweets and re-tweets. That's a single-day record for the Trump presidency so far.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Congratulations to him for that.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House with the latest on how President Trump is focused on what's happening just down the street. Kaitlan, apart from social media, do we know -- and that's not a small thing, by the way, that's like a window into what is on his mind.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

TAPPER: But beyond that, do we know what the President has been doing behind the scenes during the trial?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is what's interesting about today, because the first two days is all this was getting underway, the president had been out of the country, he was getting back yesterday.

But today is the first day he's going to be here at the White House as these arguments are getting underway, under day two of these opening statements from the Democrats. And the president doesn't have a lot on his public schedule, just an intelligence briefing and then he's not leaving the White House until later this afternoon about two hours after the Democrats started speaking, to go speak at the Republican National Committee's winter meeting.

So there is a lot of opportunity for the president to be keeping a close eye on this, and based on the people that he's been speaking with, he has been paying close attention. Remarking on certain things that the Democrats have said, talking about points that they've made as he's having to sit back and watch them make their statements without any Republicans or any his own legal team being able to rebut them in real time since they've got the floor to themselves. And we're told, Jake, that's actually irritated the president a little bit, because his team is not going to get able to start speaking until Saturday at the earliest.

BLITZER: You also, Kaitlan, have some news on yet another prohibition on cell phone use today. It's not just the Senate floor we're talking about. Tell us about that.

COLLINS: Yes, speaking of that Republican National Committee meeting that the president is going to, he's going to deliver a speech this afternoon. It's going to be held at this resort in Miami. But we are now getting a glimpse of the memo that the RNC sent out to those attendees who are going to be there, telling them that any phones or devices that have the capability to record audio are banned from the event, and not only are they being encouraged not to just record the president, which is typically standard for some of this speeches that he has with the RNC.

They are not going to let them bring their phones into the room per this memo. They say they're going to have somewhere for them to store them and keep them until the end of the event, which is notable because, of course, in the past a lot of audio from these remarks, these closed door events the president has done where no press will be in the room, often it leaks from someone in there who's recording the president or taking notes and later let the press know what it is he says, which sometimes often mirrors what he says publicly.

But this is pretty notable that there will be no phones allowed in there. And they say that if they break the rules, Wolf, they will -- are threatening to essentially remove them from the room if they do bring phones in there.

TAPPER: Well, Kaitlan, is this voluntary, is this honor system, and how will they going to know if somebody has a cell phone in their pocket? Are they going to frisk them?

COLLINS: So that's the question. When they go into the room, are they going to be actually checking them like they would in any other events like this?

Typically, Jake, it's the honor code. They just say, do not record the president or X, Y, Z, and they essentially leave it up to the discretion of the attendees at this event. But reading this memo, it's pretty harsh. We actually have a screen shot of exactly what they say, and they are threatening them that if they break the rules, they will not be allowed in the room.

And then they're saying, we're going to have somewhere for you to keep your phone, which does make it seem like they are going to be taking them from them before they come into the room. That of course we'll have to wait until about 3:00 this afternoon to find out how that actually goes down.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Senators right now are arriving for the Senate trial. Democrats are trying to build their case against President Trump. And just moments, standby we'll be right back.

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[12:39:07]

BLITZER: Chief Justice John Roberts arriving only moments ago, but as we await the Senate impeachment trial to begin with a federal budget deficit that has already surpassed $1 trillion this year alone, the president has floated an idea on how to reduce that number if he wins a second term.

TAPPER: In an interview on the sidelines of the World Economic Forum, President Trump was asked if he plans to cut entitlements such as Medicare, and if he would even consider doing such a thing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: At some point they will be. We have tremendous growth. We're going to have tremendous growth this next year. It will be toward the end of the year. The growth is going to be incredible. And at the right time, we will take a look at that.

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TAPPER: So at the right time, we will take a look at that, the president says. CNN White House Correspondent, John Harwood joins us now. And John, saying that he's willing to take a look at is not, of course, a commitment, but it does seem to go back on one of the things he pledged in 2016, right?

[12:40:08]

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Exactly right. It's not a commitment, however, it is completely out of tune with his message in 2016 which, as we all remember, broke with Republican orthodoxy by essentially telling his working class white supporters, I am not going to touch those entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid, social security that you've come to depend on and support. Here are some examples.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Save Medicare, Medicaid, and social security without cuts. Have to do it. Get rid of the fraud, get rid of the waste and abuse, but save it. People have been paying in for years, and now many of these candidates want to cut it.

I'm not going to cut social security like every other Republican, and I'm not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARWOOD: Now, of course, as president, he has supported cuts in Medicaid, Medicare, and social security, in particular the Social Security Disability program on Medicaid with the repeal of -- attempted repeal of ObamaCare, some provider cuts in Medicare, but those have not gone through. He's gotten urged to do it by people like Mick Mulvaney, the former budget director now his acting chief of staff. And there's a big distance between saying I'm going to look at something and actually making it happen, because if you're going to make that happen in this government, it's going to take an all-out push by the president.

Still not clear, he's going to do that but certainly Democrats are going to use that in the 2020 campaign.

BLITZER: John Harwood is our new White House correspondent. John, thanks very much, welcome to CNN.

HARWOOD: Thank you.

BLITZER: John king, he told me that then-candidate Donald Trump many times and earlier as private citizen, Donald Trump, he wasn't going to cut Medicare, social security, Medicaid. He promised that to the American public.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's one of the things that made him so different, so hard for Democrats to pin down in the 2016 campaign because he was not an ideological conservative. They couldn't link him to all those quote-unquote bad things they had said Republicans were going to do if they got elected president.

Mark me down as very skeptical, I'm guessing that Brad Parscale, the campaign manager is going to have a conversation with the president says, I know you said that to CNBC, maybe you felt you had to be responsible economist at the moment. Stop.

There's a reason Paul Ryan, his former speaker, remember, Donald Trump sidelined Paul Ryan who thought he was the Republicans' big idea man on this issue. He said it was critical for the country to deal with social security and Medicare reform. That is gone. The president also said in that interview growth is going to be incredible.

This president is very lucky. He has the gift of a very strong economy to carry into his re-election year. He should talk about all the time. And he should talk about all the time. I mean, he inherited a very good economy and if he wants to --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He made it better.

KING: That's our point, the president can make in the campaign, but there is nobody even on his team who thinks that throughout 2020 growth is going to be incredible. They hope growth continues at a modest straight of two percent, maybe get to three percent. There is nobody who thinks growth is going to be incredible.

The big worry among economists is not if but when do we have what everyone hopes is a modest recession, but there's a recession on the horizon somewhere in 2020 or 2021.

TAPPER: And John, we just saw the House impeachment managers walking into the Senate there. John makes a good point, Senator. I want to ask you because one of the arguments that Paul Ryan when he was speaker would make to the president is, you have to do this. The deficit is exploding, we have to be responsible. You know, let's (INAUDIBLE) meaning let's trim or reduce the benefits going to people who have more money. And President Trump would say, according to people who heard these conversations it's just lousy politics. Why would you ever talk about doing something like that?

It's horrible politics and the truth of the matter is the diagnosis is correct. It's difficult politics. If it were good politics, it would have been done by now.

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, it is horrible politics, one of the reasons I'm sitting here is because it's horrible politics for a senator from Pennsylvania to talk about changing Medicare and social security which I did. And look, this is what has made Donald Trump different. Donald Trump will in the next few days when he gets the opportunity to back track on that (INAUDIBLE). No question about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think?

SANTORUM: And I'm someone who believes we need to address these issues, but I don't see Donald Trump doing it.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, and it goes to show the ways in which he has fundamentally changed the party, right? As you said, this was orthodoxy among our Republicans, looking at deficits, orthodoxy among Republicans --

SANTORUM: We have a trillion-dollar deficit and Republicans don't talk about it.

HENDERSON: Yes, Tea Party (INAUDIBLE).

SANTORUM: Nobody talks about it.

HENDERSON: Yes, I mean, the Tea Party --

SANTORUM: Democrats don't talk about it.

HENDERSON: -- wanting to do these things while worrying about exploding deficits, but it didn't matter. Donald Trump is changing that.

SANTORUM: Democrats never suffered for being the party of big deficits. Obama didn't suffered, nobody did --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait a minute (INAUDIBLE) if you'll recall.

SANTORUM: Well, that was, yes, 20 years ago. I agree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, but it was.

SANTORUM: It was and it was a bipartisan deficit (INAUDIBLE).

KING: You just said the key word, bipartisan. You can't impeach a president unless it's bipartisan. You can't do big things unless it's bipartisan. The last time this town was serious about this issue, a guy named Rick Santorum traveled the country with a president named Bill Clinton and did town halls on social security.

[12:45:05]

That was the last time this town was willing to have those conversations (INAUDIBLE).

SANTORUM: And then impeachment came.

KING: It's a long time away. And then impeachment came.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And the first thing Chuck Schumer said today at his press conference before he got into impeachment was, I want to point --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: He's going to pull back on that.

BORGER: -- about cutting entitlements, and it's not going to be the last time you're going to hear that from him.

SANTORUM: I wish he would look at it, but he's not going to.

BLITZER: All right, we're only moments away right now from the start of the Senate trial, and clearly, this is going to be another dramatic day in this entire impeachment process. One of the House managers just sent a message to the president. Stand by.

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[12:50:21]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Moments away from the start of the impeachment trial. One of the House members now firing back against some of the comments from Republican senators like Wisconsin Ron Johnson who were touting executive privilege and the president's rights to stop witness testimony. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren tweeting this, "Executive privilege cannot be used to prevent a witness who is willing to testify from appearing, and certainly not one who no longer works in government. It's not a gag order. And witnesses testify on national security all of the time. Bolton has a right to testify if he wants to."

Jeffrey Toobin, is that correct?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: It's a very interesting and unresolved legal issue. What happens if a president cites executive privilege for a former official to stop him from testifying? He would have to go to court and get an injunction telling John Bolton not to testify. It's never been done before.

COOPER: Former officials can write books about what they heard. TOOBIN: They do, but many have of them have pre-publication review agreements. Even I, when I had a class I had to submit a book I wrote when I was one of the Iran-Contra prosecutors for pre-publication review. He will certainly have to submit that book. Now, that's usually only covers classified information not executive privilege but there have been fights about books of the people who had pre- publication review.

I think chances are Bolton would be allowed to testify. It's also true that a judge might say, well, some questions are covered by executive privilege and some are not, and that could lead to a very long legal wrangle. She's making a good legal argument, but it is not necessarily a winner.

COOPER: Let's go live now to Dana Bash, she's on Capitol Hill. Dana?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Anderson, and I am joined now by two members of our all-star

team here on Capitol Hill, those who have been in the chamber being the eyes and ears not just for CNN but for everybody, for our viewers and readers, because the cameras don't show what is happening with the actual senators, the jurors.

We have Clare Foran and Ellie Kaufman. Thank you so much for coming on. So, what's your takeaway having been in the chamber and watching these senators for a very long time about how much they're paying attention, Ellie?

ELLIE KAUFMAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL PRODUCER: I think there's varying levels of attention being paid as the days go on. As the day start there definitely senators are paying close attention, we have seen many senators taking notes throughout the day. And then as the days drag on, we've seen senators stand up, stretch their legs, walk to the cloakroom, walk back. So it's varying as the days go on.

CLARE FORAN, CNN POLITICS CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Yes, I would agree. I think there certainly are senators that are paying very close attention and taking a lot of notes. But at the same time I think it's very evident that the restlessness and kind of the fidgetiness is increasing as time goes on. We're seeing more senators up and out of their seats. But that doesn't mean that they're not still paying attention, sometimes it just means they've gone to the back of the room to take a break or get out of their seat for a little bit and watch while they're standing.

BASH: One of the things that I noticed, I was in there a couple times yesterday, is that when the videos play, everybody turns. You know, it's like, you know -- I'm not saying it's not important, but it's almost like, you know, my son on screen time. When there's something to look at and to watch, they're there.

KAUFMAN: Yes. When the video clips come on, you definitely see everyone in the chamber perk up and look right at the screens that are on either side of the chambers where they can watch the clips. And many of our senators have -- one of the senators we've been talking to have said that the video clips are very engaging, and actually Senator Cramer just told us he hopes that Trump's legal defense team does the same because it's been very effective on the House side.

BASH: OK. And we've seen a lot of milk drinking, milk and water the only that -- only liquids that they can drink, and I've seen a lot of sneaking of candy. You have too, right?

FORAN: Yes. There's been a lot of candy eating on the floor. Senator Pat Toomey is in charge of the official candy desk, and yesterday I was sitting in there watching the floor, and Senator Ben Sasse came over, opened the drawer. You can just see brightly colored wrappers, he grabs a handful and goes back to his desk to carry on.

BASH: Well, Tom Cotton, I've watched washed down at least one piece of chocolate with that milk, so. But again, this is the fun color, they're also very important aspects to watching and seeing how they're reacting.

Thank you, both. Appreciate it. And we're going to take another quick break. We are coming up close to the top of the hour when day three of the impeachment trial of President Donald Trump will begin. Don't go away.

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[12:58:08]

BLITZER: Hello and welcome to CNN's special coverage of the impeachment trial of President Donald J. Trump. I'm Wolf Blitzer.

TAPPER: And I'm Jake Tapper along with Dana Bash who is leading CNN's coverage on Capitol Hill. Thanks so much for joining us.

In moments, House impeachment managers will use their second of these three allotted days to continue to make their case that the president should be removed from office. Today the House impeachment managers will focus on how the facts of the case relates to the first article of impeachment, abuse of power.

BLITZER: And just a short time ago, Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer said the impeachment managers, and I'm quoting now, set the bar very high for the president's counsel to meet.

TAPPER: The managers are laying out a case that the president pressured the government of Ukraine to investigate his political rival Joe Biden in exchange for a White House meeting and the release of $391 million in security aid to Ukraine.

BLITZER: The president's defense, they will certainly have their time to rebut beginning on Saturday. The Democrats, you know, the House managers, they're going to go today and tomorrow, then it's the Republicans, the White House counsel's turn. They have three days, 24 hours, as well if they want to use all that time.

TAPPER: And then I suspect there will be a motion to end it all as well as a motion to have more witnesses, and that's really going to be the real test. Are there going to be four Republican senators to join with 47 Democratic senators or 47 senators in caucus with the Democrats, to say, no, we want to hear more. We need more witnesses, we need more evidence. Right now, observers think that there may be two or three Republicans who are willing to do that, but that four number might be a bridge too far.

Let's bring CNN's Dana Bash back now. Dana, things are about to get underway.

BASH: They are, and as you said the House managers are framing today as abuse of power day. It's unclear how that is going to differ when it comes to what they're actually saying, the arguments they're making differ from what they said yesterday and in --

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