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CNN Live Event/Special
Senate Impeachment Trial Of President Trump. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired January 23, 2020 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
REP. SYLVIA GARCIA (D-TX): It's clear that the president wanted what he wanted from Ukraine, an investigation to smear his political rival.
But even if the president wanted an investigation of Hunter Biden, there is no basis for that either. Now, how do you know? Well, Ukraine's former prosecutor general admitted that the allegation a against Vice President Biden's son was plainly false. You can see it on the slide, his own words, "plainly false."
Then Ukrainian Prosecutor General Yuriy Lutsenko recanted his earlier allegations and confirmed, quote: "Biden was definitely not involved in any wrongdoing involving Burisma." So, even the Ukrainians believed that Biden's son did nothing wrong.
The long and short of it is that there was no basis for the investigation that the president was pursuing and pushing, none. He was doing it only for his own political benefit. But let's look at one more important reason why it's clear that President Trump simply wanted a political benefit from Ukraine's announcement of this investigation and didn't care about the underlying conduct.
The allegations against Vice President Biden were based on events that occurred in late 2015 and early 2016. They were all well publicized at the time but as soon as President Trump took office, he increased military support to Ukraine in 2017 and the next year, 2018, but it wasn't until 2019, over three years after Vice President Biden called for Shokin's removal, three years after that President Trump started pushing Ukraine to investigate that conduct.
So what changed? What changed? Why did President Trump not care at all about Biden's request on the removal of Shokin the year after it happened in 2017 or the next year in 2018? Senators, you know what changed in 2019 when President Trump suddenly cared; it's that Biden got in the race.
On April 25, Vice President Biden announced he would run for president in 2020. If President Trump was so concerned about this alleged corruption, why didn't he push Ukraine to investigate when he entered office in 2017? Or in 2018 after Biden gave public remarks about how he pressured Ukraine to remove Shokin. Why did President Trump instead wait until former Vice President Biden was campaigning for the Democratic nomination? Senator - Senators it's obvious because President Trump wanted to hurt Vice President Biden's candidacy and help himself politically. He pushed for an investigation in 2019 because that's when it would be valuable to him, President Trump. He pushed for it when it started to become clear that Vice President Biden could beat him and he had good reason to be concerned. Let's look at the slide about some polls. Throughout this scheme, polling had consistently shown the former vice president handily beating President Trump by significant margins in head-to-head matchups.
The chart on the screen shows a "Fox News" poll emphasizing this point. The chart shows that from March through December, Vice President Biden had consistently lead President Trump in national polls by significant margins. So beginning around March, Vice President Biden is beating the president in polls, even on "Fox News." In April, Biden officially announces his candidacy and then that is when the president gets worried.
[14:35:00]
In May, the president's personal lawyer tells the press that he's planning to travel to Ukraine to urge newly-elected President Zelensky to conduct the two investigations - one into Vice President Biden. You know what else happened in May? A "Fox News" poll showed Biden beating Trump by 11 points.
This clearly did not go unnoticed. On May 9, the president's personal lawyer, Mr. Giuliani said in an interview and this is a quote, I guarantee you Joe Biden will not get to election day without this being investigated. And by July, right before President Trump's call with President Zelensky where he asked for the investigation into Biden, the "Fox News" poll showed Biden beating Trump by 10 points. And then on July 25, after years of not caring what Vice President did, does President Trump ask for an investigation in his formable political rival in the 2020 election.
Senators, looking at this timeline of events, it is not difficult to see why the investigation of the Bidens would be helpful to President Trump. The mere announcement of such an investigation would immediately tarnish the former vice president's reputation by embroiling him and his son in a foreign criminal investigation even if the charges were never pursued - just the mere announcement.
And if a foreign country announced a formal investigation into those allegations, it would give allegations against the Bidens an air of credibility and could carry through the election. The evidence is clear. Everyone knew, even Ukraine, that there was no merit to the allegation that Biden called for the removal of Shokin for any illegitimate reason. Biden asked for it because it was consistent - consistent with U.S. policy because Shokin was corrupt and with the backing of our allies.
Even President Trump knew there was no basis for this investigation. That is why for years after Shokin's removal, he continued to support Ukraine; never once raised the issue. It wasn't until Biden began beating him in the polls that he called for the investigation. The president asked Ukraine for this investigation for one reason and one reason only, because he knew he would -- it would be damaging to an opponent who was consistently beating him in the polls and therefore it could help him get reelected in 2020.
President Trump had the motive. He had the opportunity and the means to commit this abuse of power. Now let's turn to the second investigation that President Trump wanted. What he wanted was a widely-debunked conspiracy theory that Ukraine, rather than Russia, interfered in the 2016 U.S. election to benefit President Trump's opponent. As we will explain, the allegation that Ukraine interfered in the 2016 elections, just like the allegation that Biden didn't properly remove the Ukraine prosecutor has absolutely no basis in fact.
In fact, this theory ignored the unanimous conclusions of the U.S. Intelligence Agency, the Congressional Intelligence Committees and Special Counsel Mueller, which found that Russia -- Russia attacked our elections.
[14:40:00]
It also went against the Senate Intelligence Committee report, which found no evidence supporting that Ukraine attacked our elections. Nor, did any witness support the theory that Ukraine attacked our elections.
Indeed, even President Trump's own advisors told him the claim was false. In fact, the one person who told President Trump his theory is true, who was it? You know it was, our adversary, Russia, who had everything to gain by deflecting the blame from their attack on Ukraine.
Let's look at what President Trump was actually suggesting Ukraine investigate. The theory is this, instead of listening to our entire Intelligence community, that concluded that Russia interfered in our 2016 election to assist Donald Trump, the new theory says it was Ukraine that interfered in the election to help Hillary Clinton and hurt Donald Trump.
One aspect of this conspiracy theory was that the American cyber security firm, CrowdStrike, which had helped the DNC respond to Russia's cyber attack in 2016, moved a DNC server to Ukraine to prevent the FBI from examining.
Here's what President Trump said about this conspiracy theory during the 25 -- July 25 call. Quote, "I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine. They say CrowdStrike, I guess you have one of your wealthy people, the serve, they say Ukraine has it." Once again, if this sounds far fetched and crazy, it should, because it is. There is simply no factual basis to support this conspiracy theory.
Let's walk through the concrete reasons why. First, as I mentioned, our entire U.S. Intelligence Community, the Senate Select Committees on Intelligence and Special Counsel Mueller all unanimously found that Russia, not Ukraine, interfered in the 2016 elections. And Russia did it to help Donald Trump and hurt Hillary Clinton. Here's an example of that. This is a conclusion of the Director of National Intelligence report entitled, Assessing Russian Activities and Intentions in recent U.S. elections.
I'll quote a part in it, you can follow along on the slide. "We access Russian President Vladimir Putin's order and influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. Presidential Election. Russia's goals were to undermine public faith in a U.S. Democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton and harm her electability and potential presidency.
We further access, Putin and the Russian government developed a clear preference for President-Elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments." End quote.
Clear preference for President-Elect Trump. And here's a conclusion of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. Quote, "The Committee found that the Russia based internet research agency sought to influence the 2016 U.S. Presidential Election by harming Hillary Clinton's chances of success and supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin.
The Committee found that the Russian government tasked and supported the IRA's interference in the 2016 U.S. elections." End quote. Supporting Donald Trump at the direction of the Kremlin. That's what it said.
[14:45:00]
And here's the Special Counsel's conclusion. The Mueller Report in 2019, quote, "As set forth and detailed in this report, the Special Counsel's investigation established that Russia interfering -- interfered in the 2016 Presidential Election, principally through two operations. First, a Russia entity carried out a social media campaign that favored President -- Presidential Candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged Presidential Candidate Hillary Clinton.
Second, a Russian Intelligence Service conducted computer intrusion operations against entities, employees and volunteers working on the Clinton campaign and then released stolen documents."
On December 9, 2019, even President Trump's own FBI Directory, Christopher Wray, stated unequivocally that there is no evidence to support the theory that Ukraine interfered in our election in 2016. Here's a video of that interview. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PIERRE THOMAS, ABC CORRESPONDENT: Did the Government of Ukraine directly interfere in the 2016 election on the scale that the Russians did?
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We have no information that indicates the Ukraine interfered with the 2016 Presidential Election.
THOMAS: When you see politicians pushing this notion, are you concerned about that, in terms of its impact on the American public?
WRAY: Well, look, there's all kinds of people saying all kinds of things out there. I think it's important for the American people to be thoughtful consumers of information, to think about the sources of it, and to think about the support and predication for what they hear.
And I think part of us being well protected against malign foreign influence is to build together an American public that's resilient, that has appropriate media literacy and that takes its information with a grain of salt.
THOMAS: And Putin has been pushing this theory, and you're message to him in terms of the American public?
WRAY: Stop trying to interfere with our elections.
THOMAS: We recently heard from the President himself that he wanted the CrowdStrike portion of this whole conspiracy in the Ukraine investigated, and I -- and I'm hearing you say there's no evidence to support that as far as you know.
WRAY: As I said, we have no -- we at the FBI have no information that would indicate that Ukraine tried to interfere in the 2016 presidential election.
(UNKNOWN): (Inaudible)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA: You heard him, he said no information that it [ph] would indicate that Ukraine tried to interfere in the 2016 presidential election. So to be really, really clear, there is no real dispute that Russia not Ukraine attacked our elections. But it's not just that there is no evidence to support this conspiracy theory, it's more dangerous than that. Because where did this theory come from? You guessed it, the Russians. Russia. Russian President Vladimir Putin and Russian intelligence services perpetuated this false debunked conspiracy theory -- now remember there is no dispute among the intelligence community, the Russia's -- that a [ph] Russia attacked our 2016 election.
The Senates own intelligence committee published a report telling us that as well. So it's no surprise that Russia wants to blame somebody else. In fact, President Trump even said that. President Putin is the one who told him it was Ukraine who interfered in our elections. In short, this theory that the Russians are promoting to interfere yet again in our Democratic process and deflect blame from their own attacks against us.
But what is so dangerous is that President Trump is helping them perpetuate this. Our own president is helping our adversary attack our processes and to help his own re-election. Dr. Hill, an expert on this matter explains it in more detail as to why this is very concerning, let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) [14:50:00]
HILL: This relates to the second thing I want to communicate. Based on questions and statements I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps somehow for some reason Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that is being perpetrated and propagated by the Russian Security Services themselves. The unfortunate truth is that Russia was the foreign power that systematically attacked our Democratic institutions in 2016.
This is public conclusion of our own intelligence agencies confirmed in bipartisan congressional reports. It is beyond dispute, even if some of the underlying details must remain classified. The impacts of the successful 2016 Russian campaign remains evident today. Our nation is being torn apart, truth is questioned, our highly professional expert career foreign service is being undermined. U.S. support for Ukraine, which continues to face armed Russian [ph] aggressions is being politicized. The Russian government's goal is to weaken our country, to diminish America's global role and soon neutralize a perceived U.S. threat to Russian interests.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA: Their goal is to weaken our country, to diminish America's global role, and to neutralize a perceived U.S. threat to Russian interests. That's why it's so dangerous, because despite the lack of any evidence to support this debunked conspiracy theory, unanimous conclusion of the intelligence community, Congress, Special Council Muller, and the FBI to the contrary; President Trump continued to promote this fake conspiracy theory just because it would be beneficial and helpful to his own re-election campaign.
Even President Trump's own senior advisors told him this allegations were false. Tom Bossert, President Trump's former Homeland Security Advisor, stated publicly that the crowd strike theory had been debunked. Here's that interview. Let's watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOSSERT: It's not only a conspiracy theory, it is completely debunked. You know I -- I don't want to be glib about this matter but last year retired former senator, Judd Gregg, wrote a piece in the Hill magazine saying the three ways or the five ways to impeachment oneself.
And the third way was to hire Rudy Giuliani. And -- and at this point I am deeply frustrated with what he and the legal team is doing and repeating that debunked theory to the president.
It sticks in his mind when he hears it over and over again. And for clarity here, George, let me just, again, repeat that it has no validity. The United States government reached its conclusion on attributing to Russia the DNC hack in 2016 before it even communicated it to the FBI and long before the FBI ever knocked on the door at the DNC. So a server inside the DNC was no relevant to our determination to the attribution. It was made up front and beforehand. And so while servers can be important and some of the investigations that followed, it has nothing to do with the U.S. government's attribution of Russia for the DNC hack.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA: The theory has no validity. That's what he said. Dr. Hill too testified that White House officials, including Mr. Bossert and former national security advisor, H.R. McMaster spend a lot of time refuting the crowd strike conspiracy theory to President Trump. Let's hear it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(UNKNOWN): Now, Dr. Hill, is this a reference to this debunked conspiracy theory about Ukraine interference in the 2016 election that you discussed at the -- in your opening statement as well as with Chairman Schiff?
HILL: The reference to crowd strike in the survey, yes that's correct.
(UNKNOWN): And it is your understanding that there is -- there's no basis for these allegations. Is that correct?
HILL: That's correct.
(UNKNOWN): Now, isn't it also true that some of President Trump's most senior advisors had informed him that this theory of Ukraine interference in the 2016 election was false?
HILL: That's correct.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARCIA: When she was asked is it false, she said that's correct. (Inaudible) as -- as Dr. Hill testified were to defect from Russia's systematic interference in our election and to drive a wedge between the United States and Ukraine, he has succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.
[14:55:00]
The alternative narrative of Ukrainian interference on the 2016 election has now been picked up by the president's defenders and the conservative media. It has muddled the waters regarding Russia's own interference in our elections.
Efforts that remain ongoing, as we have learned last week -- this week from reporting that Russia hacked Burisma. If there were any doubt about how President Putin feels about the president's conduct, you need only look to Putin's own words.
His statement on November 20 tells it all. Quote, thank god nobody is excusing us anymore of interfering in U.S. elections. Now they're accusing Ukraine. That's a short quotation from Putin but it speaks volumes.
Even though President Trump knew that there was no factual basis for the theory that it was Ukraine that interfered in the 2016 election rather than Russia and knew that Russia was perpetuating this theory, he still wanted President Zelensky to pursue the investigation.
Why? Because while Putin in Russia clearly stood by -- to gain by promoting this conspiracy theory about Ukraine, so did Donald Trump. He knew it would be politically helpful to his 2010 -- 2020 election and announcement of an investigation of -- by Ukraine or to breathe new life into a debunk conspiracy theory that Ukraine and election interference was there in 2016 and it lended great credibility.
It would have cast out on the conclusions of the Intelligence Committee and Special Counsel Mueller, that Russia interfered in the 2016 election to help President Trump. And it would have helped eliminate a perceived threat to the legitimacy of Donald Trump's presidency that he was only elected because of the help he received from President Putin. I now yield to Mr. Schiff.
J. ROBERTS: The Majority Leader is recognized.
MCCONNELL: I demand that we take a 15 minute break at this point.
J. ROBERTS: Without objection, so ordered.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right, so we just heard the first two hours of today's arguments by the House managers, the Democrats in favor of not only impeaching but convicting removing the president of the United States from office.
Jerry Nadler, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, he went first, spoke about the allegation of abuse of power by the president.
And then Representative Sylvia Garcia, she spoke at length about the allegations against the Bidens, the former vice president, and son, Hunter Biden, as well as the allegations that it was Ukraine, not necessarily Russia that interfered in the U.S. presidential election in 2016.
Two hours down, several more to go.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: This was an interesting session, especially Congresswoman Garcia's comments, because she spoke so -- at such great length about Vice President Biden and his son, Hunter, to a lesser degree.
And what was interesting about it, first of all, she laid out the case that the president was not actually interested in the allegations of corruption. He was just threatened by Joe Biden and his candidacy in 2020.
And she also laid out the case, I think ably so, that when Vice President Biden, as vice president, pushed for Ukraine to remove a prosecutor that was widely perceived by the international community and the Western world as being corrupt, Viktor Shokin, that he was doing so because that was in the interests of anticorruption efforts. And she did a good job with that.
One of the things I wonder about with her presentation -- she pointed out there's no evidence that Hunter Biden has done anything wrong.
But one of the things I wonder about in her presentation is -- and we saw this issue with the Republicans not acknowledging -- and we talked about it earlier this morning.
The Republicans not acknowledging that President Trump did anything wrong at all, that it was a perfect call, and the sacrifices and credibility that were necessary when you make such a point.
Because even Senator Santorum, who is a strong supporter of the president, says that he doesn't think President Trump should have done what he did.
[15:00:00]
By not acknowledging that -- even Hunter Biden has said that, in retrospect, he shouldn't have taken that job and that, in retrospect, he was only hired because his last name is Biden.
