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CNN Live Event/Special
President Trump's Defense Team Set To Deliver Opening Arguments In Impeachment Hearing; Secretary Of State Mike Pompeo Under Fire For Reportedly Screaming Obscenities And Berating A Journalist; Trump's Defense Team To Target Bidens In Opening Arguments; U.S. To Evacuate Citizens From Chinese City Over Coronavirus; How Will Trump Defense Treat Rudy Giuliani?; House Managers Expected To Deliver 28,000-Plus Pages Trial Record To The Senate. Aired 9-10a ET
Aired January 25, 2020 - 09:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: I'm Wolf Blitzer live in Washington alongside Anderson Cooper. This is CNN's special coverage of the impeachment trial of President Donald J. Trump. We're just an our away from the critical next phase in the trial. This morning, the president's legal team begins their defense. They call today a coming attractions and the full-throated arguments they plan to present starting on Monday and this follows three days of evidence given by House impeachment managers, evidence that they say makes an overwhelming case to remove the President of the United States from office.
In their final statements last night, Democrats called on their Republican colleagues to defend the fabric of the U.S. Constitution by demanding witnesses as this trial moves forward.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JERRY NADLER (D-NY), IMPEACHMENT MANAGER: This is a determination by President Trump that he wants to be all-powerful. He does not have to respect the Congress, he does not have to respect the representatives of the people, only his will goes. He is a dictator. This must not stand and that is why another reason he must be removed from office.
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA), LEAD IMPEACHMENT MANAGER: Americans get a fair trial and so I ask you, I implore you, give America a fair trial. Give America a fair trial. She's worth it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: It remains to be seen if those arguments will resonate with the Republican-controlled Senate. In the meantime, Trump's legal teams expect to make a very different case. For more on what to expect, today we turn to CNN's Manu Raju live on Capitol Hill. What's the president's team planning for today?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is going to be a brief overview of the overall case. We do only expect about three hours or so of these opening arguments on the president's team's side. Essentially what Jay Sekulow, the president's attorney, said yesterday that it's generally going to be an overview of how they plan to detail their case on Monday and Tuesday when the Senate returns into session.
But expect a full-throated defense of the president's actions, trying to paint everything that he did in Ukraine in the most favorable light and expect him also to go after Joe Biden, the former vice president, the former vice president's son. We'll see how much detail he gets into there and one question that Democrats had is whether or not Pat Cipollone, the president -- the White House Counsel, will detail his role in some of the allegations that have come up and particularly the evidence to block subpoenas from being complied with.
I asked Jay Sekulow yesterday whether or not they would discuss Pat Cipollone's role in all of this and they said this is not a time to talk about communications between an attorney and a client. So don't expect that to be divulged as the Democrats want, but do expect this defense to start today and intensify when they come back on Monday and Tuesday, Anderson.
COOPER: And Manu, I understand you're hearing that the White House and Senate Republicans are confident that witnesses will not be called.
RAJU: Yes. There's confidence in the Republican leadership and in the White House that there will not be the 51 votes on the first motion in the -- in the key vote in the next week that would call for a subpoena for witnesses and documents because the Republicans believe their conference is mostly in line. And talking to Republican senators yesterday, including ones on the fence, it was clear that they were not willing to buck the president, at least not yet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CORY GARDNER (R-CO): We'll have a continued trial and witnesses that referred (ph) from the House and the efforts will continue this week.
RAJU: Are you open to hearing from John Bolton and Mick Mulvaney?
GARDNER: We've got (ph) a lot of impeachment witnesses.
SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R-TN): I think we've done a very good job of doing what the House managers ask to do. We're hearing the case eight or nine hours a day. We're going to hear the president's arguments. We're going to listen to the answers to our questions, study the record and then we'll see if we need more evidence at that point and I'll make my decisions after I hear all of that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: And those are potentially two key votes, one Cory Gardner up for reelection in Colorado in a swing state. He has been very careful about saying much of anything during the impeachment trial. Lamar Alexander, retiring Tennessee Republican and institutionalist, but someone who is close to Mitch McConnell and uncertain where he comes down, but most Republicans believe he ultimately will side with the president. We'll see if he does just that.
There's an expectation that they would lose Susan Collins and Mitt Romney on that initial vote, but Democrats need four Republican votes and Lisa Murkowski, the Alaska Republican senator, has been critical of Democrats in recent days. She has not said how she will come down.
So the math at the moment favors Republicans. We'll see how that changes in the coming days, but that key vote, if it fails in the middle of next week, next week, then that means the president could be acquitted, Anderson, potentially by the end of the week, Anderson.
COOPER: All right. Manu Raju. Manu, thanks. Wolf?
BLITZER: Anderson, thank you very much. Let's get some reaction right now from Democratic senator Dick Durbin. He's the Minority Whip, the number two Democrat in the U.S. Senate.
Senator, thanks so much for joining us. As you just heard from Manu, Republicans think they have the votes to block witnesses, block more evidence, more documents. What do you say to that?
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): I can just tell you that public sentiment across America in favor of witnesses, documents and evidence and a real trial has been growing as this impeachment trial has unfolded.
[09:05:01]
And so the Republicans, if they've decided they're going to just frankly stonewall it and bring an end to this as quickly as possible, may pay a price for it with the public.
BLITZER: You heard Congressman Jerry Nadler, one of the House managers, call President Trump effectively a dictator. Do you worry that that kind of strategy is potentially alienating some of these so- called moderate Republicans that you desperately need to vote with you?
DURBIN: I just don't know what is impressing the handful of Republicans who may be getable, as we say, at this moment. I think the point that was being made by Congressman Nadler and others is if you don't hold this president accountable under the rule of law, then frankly he is not answerable to anyone.
If this administration can refuse to disclose one single document when the Clinton administration disclosed 90,000 documents during their impeachment trial, it's an indication that this president is going to stonewall it and basically say to the American people it's none of your business what I do as your president.
BLITZER: Let me play for you an audio recording that allegedly captures the president ordering the firing of the then U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch. The tape was turned over to the House Intelligence Committee by an attorney for Lev Parnas, the indicted -- the indicted -- he's been charged with criminal crimes. President Trump has denied even knowing Parnas, as you know. He's denied it multiple times. Let me play this recording along with the president's denials. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LEV PARNAS, AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN: The biggest problem there, I think where we -- where we need to start is we got to get rid of the ambassador. She's still left over from the Clinton administration.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What, the ambassador to the Ukraine?
PARNAS: Yes. She's basically walk around telling everybody wait, he's going to get impeached, just wait. I mean, it's incredible.
TRUMP: Get rid of her. Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out, okay? Do it.
I don't know Parnas. I don't know him at all. Don't know what he's about. Don't know where he comes from. Know nothing about him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lev Parnas has come forward and said that you knew everything that he was doing in Ukraine.
TRUMP: He's a conman. Okay. You ready? Let me answer that one first.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. So you're saying that's not true?
TRUMP: I don't know him --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. You don't know him.
TRUMP: -- other than he's sort of like a groupie. He shows up at fundraisers.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Well, what's your reaction?
DURBIN: Well, I tell you, all of the accumulated evidence of the relationship with Parnas at the cigar bars and the private dinners and the photographs go way beyond what the president has described and he was one of Rudolph Giuliani's lieutenants. Rudolph Giuliani made it clear from the start that he put the finger on this Ambassador Yovanovitch and said she won't play ball with us, get rid of her and ultimately he succeeded in that mission.
BLITZER: I know you want to hear from John Bolton, the president's former national security adviser, Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, but what about Lev Parnas? Do you think he should be called as a witness in this Senate impeachment trial?
DURBIN: Well, we're focusing on four people to start with and maybe other witnesses will be needed, but when it comes to Mick Mulvaney, expect the people who are defending the president to say he had no knowledge of what he's been accused of by the House managers and impeachment.
He didn't understand that this was some sort of a shakedown in any way, shape or form. Mick Mulvaney under oath will face perjury if he lies about that and he knows it and that's why they don't want to put him on the stand. He has to tell us, in honest terms, his role and the president's role in this whole matter.
BLITZER: Well, what about Lev Parnas? Do you want him to be a witness?
DURBIN: At this point, I think we're going to go for the first four that we've talked about. I think they will really decide whether we should go forward with any other witnesses. From that point of view, I think that he may be part of a later group, but let's deal with the first four fundamental, foundational witnesses.
BLITZER: Well, see if you can find four Republican senators who will go along with that and clearly, as we've been reporting, that's, at least right now, problematic. What do you expect to hear today from the president's attorneys?
DURBIN: Well, I'm not sure what to expect. As I said, it's a trailer or just an intro of what we're going to receive in full testimony -- or I should say full argument from the president's side on Monday. Some of the rumors are it's going to be a non-stop attack on Joe Biden and his son.
I don't think that's going to work with the American people. They want to know what this president did and they want to basically know whether or not he withheld almost $400 million in military assistance to Ukraine, fighting the Russians in order to pressure the president of Ukraine to come forward and say something negative about the Bidens, I really believe that going after the Bidens will ultimately backfire if that's their strategy.
BLITZER: Well, you heard Jay Sekulow, one of the president's attorneys, say that the House managers effectively opened up a very wide double door to bringing up the Bidens because he -- because the House manager spoke at length in defending the former vice president and his son, Hunter Biden.
DURBIN: I think it was unavoidable that their names would be mentioned in the course of presenting the case.
[09:09:57]
But when it comes down to the basic of the charges against the president, the fact that it was Biden as opposed to some other nominee, presidential nominee, that President Trump may have been worried about, that's secondary to the basic charges against him as to whether or not this president used the power of his office to deny military assistance, meeting in the White House and an opportunity for President Zelensky to verify that he had a relationship with the United States.
BLITZER: Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, thanks so much for joining us.
DURBIN: Thank you much.
BLITZER: We'll be watching all of this very, very closely. Up next, we'll have more on the tape, the audio tape of the president, and the legal significance. Jeffrey Toobin and Preet Bharara, they're both standing by live. We'll discuss.
Plus, a reporter details how the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo erupted and cursed at her over her questions about the Ukraine scandal. You're going to hear the sound just ahead. This is CNN's special live coverage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Just in, we're told that House impeachment managers will march from the House to the Senate to officially file more than 28,000 pages in the impeachment inquiry just before the president's lawyers begin their case. There is new potential evidence in the impeachment trial that may never get presented on the Senate floor.
Unlikely it will. According to Lev Parnas' attorney, it is a 2018 audio recording of the president himself talking to both indicted associates Rudy Giuliani, Igor Fruman and Lev Parnas, the same Lev Parnas the president says he doesn't know.
And in it, the president appears to order the dismissal of his then U.S. ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch after he hears falsehoods that she was speaking against him. First you'll hear the recording obtained by "ABC News," then you'll hear the president respond to it in an interview on "Fox."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PARNAS: The biggest problem there, I think where we -- where we need to start is we got to get rid of the ambassador. She's still left over from the Clinton administration.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What, the ambassador to the Ukraine?
PARNAS: Yes. She's basically walk around telling everybody wait, he's going to get impeached, just wait. I mean, it's incredible.
TRUMP: Get rid of her. Get her out tomorrow. I don't care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out, okay? Do it.
I probably would have said it was Rudy there or somebody, but I make no bones about it. I won't have ambassadors -- I have every right. I want ambassadors that are chosen by me. I have a right to hire and fire ambassadors. I don't know. I didn't hear this, but if they have it, it ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's breaking now. Yeah.
TRUMP: ... I will tell you right now I feel strongly that this is somebody that shouldn't be with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP) COOPER: Preet Bharara is a CNN legal analyst who was the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York until he was fired by President Trump and Jeffrey Toobin is CNN chief legal analyst. Jeffrey ...
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Would be fired if he had the chance ...
COOPER: You would absolutely be fired. That's right.
TOOBIN: ... but he didn't. Yes. So ...
COOPER: You'd be fired by -- Susan Collins would fire you.
TOOBIN: That's right. Yes.
COOPER: A lot of people would fire you these days. Any significance actually to this? I mean, it's fascinating to hear and it actually backs up what Lev Parnas himself told me, told Rachel Maddow that he was at this table when the president did this.
TOOBIN: Well, as Preet was just pointing out before we went on the air, this is a long time ago.
PREET BHARARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's over a year ago. Right.
TOOBIN: That speech -- that dinner or whatever it was was in April of 2018, a year in advance of a lot of the events that we've been ...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
TOOBIN: ... we've been talking about. So it just shows how long this campaign was in ...
COOPER: Right. When Republicans say this was all about a phone call, this is something that began a long time ago.
TOOBIN: Right. And, you know, it just shows how much of a campaign there was to get Ukraine on board the Trump agenda, which seems to be, from day one, getting Joe Biden. So actually one of the -- one of the Democratic arguments has been it all started when Biden declared his candidacy. I think what this shows and there's other evidence shows that it actually started well before that.
COOPER: It's also interesting because, I mean, it does back up just one of the things that Lev Parnas has been publicly talking about. It seems like there's no appetite to have Lev Parnas or anyone else as witnesses on the Republican side.
BHARARA: Right.
COOPER: Does this tape matter at all?
BHARARA: Look, I think it matters in terms of context, as Jeffrey was saying. It shows the kind of language that Trump uses, it shows what his state of mind was. Now, if you look at the -- you know, the strict transcript of the tape, arguably you could say, look, there was an ambassador who was claimed to be bad-mouthing the president and who said he's going to be impeached -- by the way, there's no evidence of that ...
COOPER: Right. And by the way, Lev Parnas has publicly said ...
BHARARA: That ...
COOPER: ... he had no actual knowledge of that.
BHARARA: Right.
COOPER: He just had heard that.
BHARARA: They were mucking it up because they had a mission to get rid of this ambassador for various reasons ...
COOPER: Right.
BHARARA: ... because they had a different, you know, domestic political errand I guess and so it's not crazy to argue, if you're just looking at this in isolation, that someone is saying the president's going to get impeached, he works -- she works for the president of the United States in an ambassadorial capacity, that he might have a reaction to that.
The problem is this is not existing in isolation. There's a whole series of events, as Jerry was pointing out, that goes on for a year where she was standing in the way of an idea about Joe Biden and Burisma and these investigations and it takes the story far beyond the simple phone call that triggered the impeachment inquiry from July 25th of this year.
So I think for that reason, it's significant, but it's also significant because it suggests there are other tapes and there is other evidence that is going to be coming out in parallel fashion to the trial which, as people have been reporting, may be over as soon as next week.
And so what's fascinating to me that I've never seen before in a regular criminal trial, I mean, except very rarely, you have the proceedings, it concludes, all this other evidence comes out that sheds light on the proceedings and also may make it more difficult for Republicans to be able to argue that they were right in preventing witnesses from testifying.
[09:20:02]
So there's a whole bunch of Pandora's boxes I think that could still yet open.
COOPER: I want to play something that Independent Senator Angus King talked to me about just last night and then talk about it. Let's play it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): If the defendant, if the accused can control the evidence that comes in, then you may as well just fold up the impeachment tent altogether. The business about what happened in Ukraine is bad, but that's an -- that's a -- that's a -- that's a single incident.
The precedent of the president being able to stiff arm the whole process will haunt us for 100 years. I mean, we're sitting in that chamber today and they're talking about things that happened in 1867 and in 1974 and 1998. This would be a -- just an incredibly dangerous precedent that I -- that would -- it would -- you may as well just, you know, take out a pen and cross out the impeachment clause.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TOOBIN: Well, I --
COOPER: Do you believe that, Jeff, that this sets a precedent?
TOOBIN: You know, this was, I thought, a very effective part of Adam Schiff's concluding remarks where he points out that impeachment is about the conduct of the president. It's about the president's alleged misconduct in office. If the president can say to Congress you may not talk to anyone who works at the White House and you may not look at any of our documents or e-mails, electronic records, how do you investigate misconduct in the White House? How does that not declare impeachment a nullity?
I think that's what Angus King was saying and, you know, that's what was so extraordinary about the eight-page letter that Pat Cipollone, the White House Counsel, wrote in October where he said we are not cooperating at all regardless of what you request and that is a chilling prospect and I think Angus King summed it up pretty well.
COOPER: Preet, do you believe that?
BHARARA: I do and further to that, and I think you'll see this play out in the question period next week, you have a profound contradictory argument being made by the administration. On the one hand, as we've seen for the last number of days in the openings and we'll see again, I'm sure, in the next three days, the White House is saying we can't proceed with witnesses because you had the opportunity in the House and you didn't proceed with witnesses.
At the same time, literally the very same time, the White House is -- the administration -- the Justice Department is arguing in court that the House has no business subpoenaing witnesses and getting witnesses to come testify and in fact, I think cleverly and wisely, House Republicans have gone back to that court and filed a letter saying they're making completely different arguments now.
So this idea that the process argument is going to be won by the Republicans, maybe to some people who can't have their minds changed, but the fact is that they are taking a position that is in direct contravention to what they said in the House and you can't have it both ways. COOPER: Preet Bharara, Jeff Toobin, thanks very much.
TOOBIN: Unless you have the votes.
BHARARA: Unless you have the votes. Yes.
COOPER: Coming up next, an "NPR" reporter says that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo yelled and swore at her after an interview, what she asked that made him so upset.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is under fire this morning for reportedly screaming obscenities and berating a journalist. Mary Louise Kelly, co-host of "NPR"'s "All Things Considered" says Pompeo went on an expletive laced rant, yelling at her after an interview in which she questioned him about Ukraine. Here's a portion of the interview where the veteran broadcaster asked Pompeo if he owed an apology to the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY LOUISE KELLY, NPR HOST, ALL THINGS CONSIDERED: People who work for you in your department, people who have resigned from this department under your leadership saying you should stand up for the diplomats who work here.
MIKE POMPEO, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't know who -- I don't know who these unnamed sources are you're referring to. I can tell you this. When I talk to -- when I talk to -- when I talk to my team here ...
KELLY: These are not unnamed sources. This is your senior advisor Michael McKinley, a career foreign service officer with four decades experience who testified under oath that he resigned in part due to the failure of the State Department to offer support to foreign service employees caught up in the impeachment inquiry on Ukraine.
POMPEO: Yes. I'm not going to comment on things that Mr. McKinley may have said. I'll say only this. I have defended every State Department official. We've built a great team. The team that works here is doing amazing work around the world ...
KELLY: Sir, respectfully, where have you have defended Marie Yovanovitch?
POMPEO: I've defended every single person on this team. I've done what's right for every single person on this team.
KELLY: Can you point me towards your remarks where you have defended Marie Yovanovitch?
POMPEO: I've said all I'm going to say today. Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: But it doesn't end there. After the interview, Mary Louise Kelly says Pompeo's aide escorted her to a private room over at the State Department without a recorder where Secretary Pompeo was waiting for her. Let's listen to her rather shocking account of what happened inside that room.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: I was taken to the secretary's private living room where he was waiting and where he shouted at me for about the same amount of time as the interview itself had lasted. He was not happy to have been questioned about Ukraine. He asked do you think Americans care about Ukraine? He used the F-word in that sentence and many others.
He asked if I could find Ukraine on a map. I said yes. He called out for his aides to bring him a map of the world with no writing, no countries marked. I pointed to Ukraine, he put the map away. He said people will hear about this and then he turned and said he had things to do and I thanked him again for his time and left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: And joining us now, Ron Klain. He's the former chief of staff to Vice President Biden, now an advisor to the Biden presidential campaign. Also Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst. Ron, what do you make of this?
[09:30:00]
RON KLAIN, ADVISOR TO THE JOE BIDEN PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, look, I do think the core point here is this. Ambassador Yovanovitch is a career servant. She served in Democratic and Republican administrations. She is the kind of patriot we need in our government.
And when we see tapes now coming out of the president telling one of the thugs for his personal lawyer that they should go get her, get her out, get rid of her. That's the kind of situation where the secretary of state has taken an oath to defend those kinds of public servants.
And so what has happened here is an outrage. It's horrible. And of course Secretary Pompeo's (INAUDIBLE) being called on it he failed his fundamental duty as secretary of state and he was called on it and obviously reacted very poorly to that.
BLITZER: She was asked several significant important very news worthy kinds of questions about Ukraine. Her questioning in the -- "On the Record" radio interview was not extraordinary.
BORGER: Right. And she also said afterwards that she had given his team a heads-up that she was going to ask about Ukraine so it wasn't a surprise nor should it have been a surprise. I think the secretary of state was bullying her in his office and I think it's inexcusable. I think pulling out some map which, I'm kind of thinking, OK does he keep these maps for tests --
KLAIN: Yes.
BORGER: -- for people who work in the State Department or for journalists or whatever and asking her to point out Ukraine was trying to belittle her. Of course, she knew exactly where Ukraine was.
And I think it's a way to try and bully a journalist. And I think he owes her a huge apology here because she acted professionally. He'll never give it to her. But she acted professionally. And it's an indication of just how the administration treats people who are trying to ask legitimate questions and get legitimate answers. And, by the way, to say nobody cares about Ukraine --
KLAIN: Right.
BORGER: -- when he's going there next week is stunning.
KLAIN: Right. But I think that -- I think that point -- Gloria, I think on this is really key point here. The secretary of state is saying no one cares about Ukraine, that's a tell of what we're about to hear, I think, in some level in the impeachment trial. Their bet, the Trump administration's bet is that Americans don't really care what Donald Trump did in Ukraine. And they can't find it on the map. That's kind of like their core thesis of this whole thing.
And what I do think Americans care about is president of the United States trying to get a foreign government to intervene in our election, try to corrupt our political process. But the thought -- the theme people don't care about Ukraine that's really one of their core messages.
BLITZER: Ron, put on your hat as a moment as an adviser to the Biden campaign --
KLAIN: Yes.
BLITZER: -- former chief of staff to the then vice president, you heard the Democratic House managers speak in length about the vice president, Hunter Biden. They opened up that door, the Republicans say, and now what are you bracing for, when we hear the White House lawyers come forward for three hours or so today, and then a bunch of hours Monday and potentially Tuesday, a big chunk of that may be on the Bidens?
KLAIN: Look, the House managers didn't open up the door, Donald Trump opened up the door. He launched a campaign --
BLITZER: I'm saying that this is what the House managers --
(CROSSTALK)
KLAIN: I -- no. I understand, Wolf. But what I'm saying is the House managers --
BLITZER: -- this is what the White House counsel said -- KLAIN: -- the House managers are doing their job. They are making the case against President Trump. And that case is very simply this, Donald Trump was afraid Joe Biden would beat him.
At the time Joe Biden announced he was going to run for president he launched an all-out campaign to violate U.S. law, to pressure Ukraine to interfere in our election. He's a repeat offender. He repeated what he did in 2016 but even more serious this time because he said, we're not going to send unnecessary aid to a country under attack from Russia unless they participate in my unlawful conspiracy to go after Joe Biden.
That is the heart of this. There's no way to discuss the impeachment without discussing it. The Biden campaign is ready to deal with that. But I think the most important thing for the Biden campaign --
BORGER: How --
KLAIN: So look the fact of the matter is --
BORGER: Do you respond when they start attacking Biden on the Senate floor? Talking about --
KLAIN: Yes.
BORGER: -- Biden and Hunter Biden? What do you do?
KLAIN: Joe Biden doesn't have to respond because four members of the president's own administration testified under oath in the House that Joe Biden did his job as vice president by pursuing corruption in Ukraine.
Joe Biden doesn't have to defend this. Joe Biden doesn't have to answer this. Trump's own officials said that this conspiracy is --
BLITZER: You're bracing for some extensive usage of the Biden -- the allegations against the former vice president and his son, I assume you're bracing for that.
KLAIN: I don't think it's a question of bracing. I think also it just reinforces from a purely political perspective. From a legal perspective President Trump committed an impeachable act. From a political perspective the fact that Trump was so worried about Joe Biden reminds Democrats why he was worried about Joe Biden.
Joe Biden is the strongest candidate to take on and beat Donald Trump. He's taken this in coming for months from the president. He's the leading in the polls. He's still beating Donald Trump in the polls. That's part of the case for Joe Biden on the campaign trail.
BORGER: So, are you saying it's good for him?
KLAIN: Look, it's horrible for the country that the president would do this. That's all that really matters. What I'm saying is we're not worried about the political fallout.
[09:35:00]
We're proud of the fact that the president really was so scared of Joe Biden he would do this. It's horrible that he did it. It's not good for anybody that he did it. It's also horrible for our political system that he did it.
BLITZER: I know at one point you were the Ebola czar --
KLAIN: Yes.
BLITZER: -- these diseases that are out there. What do you think about the way the Trump administration is now handling the coronavirus scare which is clearly enormous right now?
KLAIN: So, look, I think it was a mistake for the president to say we've got it under control. We don't really know what we're dealing with yet. And I think there are four things that the Trump administration needs to do very quickly. They need to put someone at the White House in charge of this. Someone needs to work on the -- all of government responses.
You need to go to Congress right now and get money to ramp up vaccine development. In other words they need to fund the series of hospitals we have in our country that can isolate and treat diseases. The funding runs out May. They need to extend that funding.
And most of all, the president needs to put down the Twitter, listen to his science and medical advisers there. We have the best people in the world in our government. Great scientists, great medical leaders like Tony Fauci, Dr. Schuchat (ph) at CDC.
He needs to stop tweeting. He needs to listen to them and let them run this. (INAUDIBLE) too soon to say.
BLITZER: How worried are you?
KLAIN: I'm concerned. I'm not -- no one should be panicked. No one should be worried. We have the best medical system in the word here in the United States. But we have a couple cases here already, we're going to see more. And this is going to spread.
We're just at the beginning of it and there's a lot we don't know yet. So, I think, we need to let the experts run response and we need to be very, very concerned.
BLITZER: Ron Klain, thanks very much for coming in. You can leave. Gloria, you cannot.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: You're going to be here for a while.
Up next, the president's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani who pushed conspiracy theories on the Bidens and Ukraine will not represent President Trump in today's impeachment trial. So, how often will he come up today? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:40:58]
COOPER: Just a short time from now, the president's lawyers will make this case against his removal. One lawyer who won't be there is Rudy Giuliani. Twenty-four hours ago he was still on television throwing out more conspiracy theories.
Michael Smerconish, political commentator and host of CNN's "SMERCONISH" is here.
Michael, how do lawyers handle Giuliani today? Do they even mention him?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, HOST, CNN SMERCONISH: If you and I were playing a drinking game while we were watching this and Rudy's name were a trigger, I think we'd be both stone cold sober at the end of the hearing. I think he'll be a nonfactor according to his lawyers.
COOPER: Because he's just -- there's no -- that he's toxic. Because they -- it doesn't seem to be there's much explanation for why Giuliani, if this was U.S. foreign policy would be out there on the pointy end of the spear on this?
SMERCONISH: Well, Anderson, if it were advantageous to have him in the mix he would be arguing the case. I mean, they guy has litigation chops or at least he did as a former U.S. attorney. The fact that he's not even involved in this process I think is significant.
COOPER: Jay Sekulow, the president's attorney says that Democrats opened the door to talk about the Bidens. I'm not sure they really needed the door to be open for them. But how much do you expect the Bidens to be a focus today and in the coming days?
SMERCONISH: Well, we keep referring to this as a trial and I guess there's no alternative. But think about it, there really are no rules of precedent. We don't have rules of evidence. We don't even have a burden of proof that is a standard.
So, the door was always open. In other words, think about the last couple of days. In not a single incident did you see someone stand up and say, I object, your honor. It's all coming in. It's all fair game.
As a trial lawyer, as I look at that which has been introduced thus far, I think probably half of it would never meet the evidentiary standard. So, for Sekulow to say, the door is open, I think that's a device for him to act as if he were introduced.
The real challenge that I see for Sekulow today is determining his audience. I've been in a position, Anderson, where I represent clients who both want to win, but they want vengeance. They are angry. And I've had to explain to them that it's not in their best interest that I bring the fire and brimstone that they desire. In other words what I'm suggesting is that Sekulow today has to decide if he's playing for the president, an audience of one or is he playing for the court of public opinion. Because to play for the president isn't necessarily in the president's best interest.
COOPER: Although certainly he is more than likely watching and we'll -- we'll see what he chooses to do.
I just want to say on the right-hand side of your screen, we're expecting to see House managers bringing some 28,000 documents, trial documents, over to the Senate. A -- whether it's a formality at this point but that is going to happen. And then at 10:00, we're just minutes away from the start of the Republicans' -- the president's defense team, giving their -- the beginning of their defense.
Michael Smerconish, thanks very much.
A senator and presidential candidate join us live, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:48:46]
BLITZER: All right. We're just a few minutes away from President Trump's defense team starting its opening arguments any minute now. We expect to see the House impeachment managers march from the House of Representatives over to the Senate, to officially file more than 28,000 pages in the impeachment inquiry, just before the president's lawyers begin to argue their case.
Manu Raju is joining us from Capitol Hill right now. He's got a special guest, Manu.
RAJU: Yes, Senator Amy Klobuchar, member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, Minnesota Democrat, is also running for the party's presidential nomination. Thank you for joining us.
Obviously, we're going to the next phase of this inquiry. It looks like in the elections, we're looking at some documents right now, here, Senator. The House Democratic managers are going to be delivering right now more than 28,000 pages of the evidentiary record. Walking from the House to the speaker's office, through the rotunda of the Capitol into the Senate chamber where they're going to be delivering everything they've gathered to the course of this investigation.
But now that we're getting into the next phase of the investigation, we are going to be dealing with the potential of getting to witnesses after the president's defense team makes their arguments over the next few days here. What are you going to personally do to try to persuade Republican senator and who specifically are you going to be talking to in order to get enough votes to move forward on witnesses?
[09:50:07]
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I started last night after the case was closed. I walked right over there. At least the -- I should say the opening arguments were closed, walked right over there and said to some of my colleagues, come on now, that was pretty convincing. I know you care about Russian expansionism. I know you care about whistle-blowers.
All of that arguments that were made really were meant, I believe, in a good way to say to them, hey, have the courage to do what you know is right. And I thought especially the parts about Ambassador Yovanovitch where they basically -- we now have some new information coming out last night that he said get rid of her.
RAJU: Who did you -- who did you specifically talk to last night?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I talked to a number of people that you would expect. I like to keep my conversations private, which is why I would be a good president. That's how you get things done. But some of them still seemed open to witnesses and that's what we need -- that's what we need to see.
RAJU: Also last night in the aftermath, Adam Schiff's closing argument, you heard some Republicans criticize his -- a line that he had in that closing argument. You've also heard some Republicans criticize Jerry Nadler's comments over in the week talking about a potential Senate Republican cover-up and treachery on a vote.
KLOBUCHAR: Yes.
RAJU: Do you have concern about the tone in the aspect of the House Democratic managers be turned off some of those key Republican senators?
KLOBUCHAR: OK. So, I was thinking this one on for three days and you can't just focus on two minutes and one statement and say, oh, that's it for me. Come on. You have got to look at all of the evidence, the compelling evidence that they put forward. Otherwise, it's just -- it's just a fake.
And whether or not anyone said that to them directly, let's face it, it's kind of a metaphor for what's going on. What Adam Schiff was saying is there are times in your life when you're an elected official where you have to show as much courage as someone in battle.
I think about the example of John McCain voting against the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. I think of some of the Republicans that actually voted for Sonia Sotomayor or voted for Elena Kagan.
I think about Claire McCaskill and Heidi Heitkamp when they voted with their party but against their own political interest when they voted against Judge Kavanaugh. There are so many examples of that in our country's history of profiles of courage and that's what's Adam Schiff's plead to them.
RAJU: One quick question Joe Biden he's going to be mentioned a lot on the Senate floor today. Do you plan to defend him if the president's team goes after him? KLOBUCHAR: Well, you know, I have been very clear that we need relevant witnesses, relevant evidence, and the relevant evidence is who was in the room when it happened? Who was -- what did Bolton say? What did Mulvaney say? What were their discussions with the president?
Those are the witnesses we're asking for.
RAJU: OK. Well, Senator, thank you for your time.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.
RAJU: Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: All right. Thanks very much. Thank you, Senator, from all us as well.
In just a moments President Trump's defense team will begin arguing why they say he should be acquitted of all impeachment charges. This is CNN's special live coverage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[09:57:59]
COOPER: In just moments the president's legal team will begin presenting their case against impeachment. The lawyers defending the president have a lot of prosecuting experience and know the pressure of a major high profile trial.
Lead attorney Jay Sekulow has argued a dozen times before the Supreme Court. Colleague Pat Cipollone is a veteran of defending against government investigations. Pam Bondi is a former Florida attorney general. Jane Raskin a former federal prosecutor. And then there are more well-known names Ken Starr, Robert Ray and Alan Dershowitz.
Starr was an independent counsel in the White Water investigation and it was his report that led the groundwork for the Clinton impeachment trial. Ray was Starr's successor and Alan Dershowitz, professor emeritus at Harvard has helped to defend O.J. Simpson and Jeffrey Epstein and famous (ph) like Claus von Bulow as well.
Jeffrey Toobin is here and Preet Bharara.
Jeffrey, what do you think the game plan is for these attorneys?
TOOBIN: The trial of Donald Trump is over and the trial for Joe Biden has begun. I mean, this is going to be -- you know, these trials are political acts, not legal acts. There are no rules of evidence. There is no standard of proof. The jurors are politicians. And the Republicans know that they are basic -- that they are going to certainly win on impeachment.
They are very likely to win on witnesses and they want to use this for political advantage. And the way to do that is to spend the next three days trashing Joe Biden and I think that's what they're going to do.
COOPER: Preet, what do you expect?
BHARARA: I expect a lot of aggressiveness. I expect them to distract. As we said before and as Jeffrey repeated, there are no rules here.
It is interesting that Jay Sekulow has talked about the opening of the door with respect to the Biden information. And it's like -- it's almost nonsensical to say that the president's team has time and time again taken a battering ram to this door behind which lies all the Biden information and the Biden speculation.
And then when the Democrats say in defense, well, that's not a relevant door. You shouldn't be able to batter your ram through that door. Then the president's team say, the fact that you talk about the door that you don't want us to go through means we need to open the door.
[10:00:02]
