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CNN Live Event/Special

Iowa Democrats: Plan to Release Caucus Results "As Soon As Possible Today"; What's Behind the Rise of Bernie Sanders; Iowa Democratic Party Chair, Troy Price, Releases Statement to Campaigns. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired February 04, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:50]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer, with our special and very extended coverage of the Iowa caucuses. The clock is ticking as we still have no, repeat no official results some 15 hours after the first contest of 2020 began. We're told to expect an announcement sometime today, but who knows when.

This has injected new chaos and uncertainty into the Democratic presidential race as the candidates are moving on to New Hampshire without knowing who won Iowa. Some are claiming a measure of victory anyway.

Let's go to CNN's Jeff Zeleny with new information joining us from Des Moines right now.

Jeff, what are you learning?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, good morning. As the candidates have moved to New Hampshire, the controversy stayed here behind in Iowa.

I am told, in the next hour, at the top of the next hour, at noon eastern, 11:00 central, here in Iowa, there's going to be another conference call with officials at the Iowa Democratic Party and members of the presidential campaigns. They're going to go through and update what they have. So that may give us more of an indication of where things are leading here.

In terms of the ultimate question: Will the results be released at some point today? That is still a question. A separate question: Will all of them be released at one time or will they be released sort of half of them and then keep working on the rest? That is an uncertain thing at this point.

Wolf, we're talking to a lot of chairs of these caucuses. We saw them last night play out across Iowa. People who are Democratic activists, officials who are in charge of organizing these events. And one of the chairs I was speaking with this morning, Linda Nelson,

in Council Bluffs, Iowa, on the western edge of Iowa, she said she got a call at 1:23 a.m. from a Democratic official here in Des Moines asking her to report her numbers. She tried to report on the app, but the app did not work. She tried to phone them in. The phone lines were jammed.

She went to sleep. But she got up, she said, went out to her car, she got her materials, and she reported her information there from the ninth precinct in Council Bluffs. We should she says that Amy Klobuchar won that precinct. We'll wait for the final results.

That is just a sense here of how officials are going door to door and calling people, trying to get these numbers in. As of this morning, I was told there was 250 or so precincts still not accounted for, that number is probably different at this point.

But it is very much a process here, Wolf. They're trying to get this right. The future of the Iowa caucuses are very much in question. But the here and now are the results of this race.

Very much an embarrassment and a stain on this rich tradition here in Iowa.

BLITZER: It certainly is.

Do you know, Jeff, if there was any training on how to use that app? Whether or not they did a rehearsal, they did some practice runs, anything along those lines?

ZELENY: That's a great question. We have been reaching out to several chairs of these caucuses, and they say it was not included in the regular materials for training for this.

It is a complicated process as we saw play out yesterday evening. And I'm told this app was not included because the app wasn't ready. So that will be an interesting thing to go back through to see why this app was not ready.

It was always supposed to be, you know, the fastest way to get results with the backup plan of being a phone call system. But if the app wasn't ready, it is curious.

It is not just an age factor. I've heard again and again, maybe it is someone old not able to use this. I was talking to a parent of an 18- year-old, who is a chair of a caucus here, obviously very savvy on technology, and they also were unable to use it because of an error message.

I think some of the pushback of, you know, perhaps people are not as savvy with this is not a good explanation. They know a lot of chairs here in Iowa may be retirees or others.

So some tough questions for the software developers of that app and the Iowa Democratic Party and the Democratic National Committee, which also is a partner in this process. BLITZER: They'll have to do a complete review of what happened, make

sure it doesn't happen again.

Let's stay on top of that process right now, that app that has caused so many problems.

Mark Preston, you're getting more information. What are you learning?

[11:05:04]

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Wolf, just picking up where Jeff left off, a Democratic source just told me that the issue does seem to lie with this major coding error in the app and that it was discovered once the data started flowing into the IDP last night, the Iowa Democratic Party.

Party officials then began to see that there were discrepancies in the three data sets that were coming together, Wolf, as these results started to get crunched.

The source also said that it took time for the party officials to figure out what exactly the problem was. There was obviously a lot of concern heading into about 9:30, 9:45., we hadn't seen any results. Well, that's when they apparently came to realize what exactly had happened.

Now, this Democratic source did tell me, and I think this is critical, that there was not a problem with the raw data being sent in. Right now, it doesn't appear to be anything nefarious. It doesn't seem to be any kind of cyber intrusion. We heard that last night as well. This was simply a coding error.

So that simple coding error right now has thrown everything up in the air as we wait to hear what happens now and the Iowa Democratic Party takes their next step -- Wolf?

BLITZER: So let me walk over to David Chalian.

You know, they could have done what they have done for 20 or 30 or 40 years, the old-fashioned way, just count the numbers, count the -- and call it in.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Call it in.

BLITZER: All of a sudden, it would be a little slower. We might get 5 percent of the precincts, 20 percent and 50 percent. Right now, we have zero percent and because of a coding error.

CHALIAN: Well, you remember, Wolf, the reason they weren't doing it the old way anymore is largely because Bernie Sanders was fighting for reforms in the process. He didn't think the old way served him that well in the 2016 race against Hillary Clinton.

Asked for these new data streams that Mark was talking about, that having the popular vote in the first round of voting and final round of voting, in addition to the important metric of the state delegate equivalent, putting that all into the reporting system, clearly overloading what may have been a coding error here as well, inside the app.

It is precisely because Bernie Sanders argued for the changes that there were more of these data streams.

I want to pick up on something you heard Jeff Zeleny say. This is a debacle for the Iowa Democratic Party. No doubt about that.

But we shouldn't forget the Iowa Democratic Party is not separate and apart from the Democratic National Committee. Troy Price, the chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party, is a member of the Democratic National Committee, as are all state party chairman.

So we do need to also hear from DNC chair, Tom Perez, at some point. There's going to need to be a national party response to this moment to instill confidence going forward in the entirety of the nomination process from here until the convention in --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: How would that work?

CHALIAN: We're going to need a full detailed accounting of what went on. And we're going to need some kind of verifiable way as to how they counted this vote, because of that.

As you know, the party said this morning, because they had the backup in place of these paper cards, these preference cards, they are going to be able to actually verify and show that the count is accurate.

I think that will give a lot of confidence to the campaigns, to Democrats, to the country at large.

BLITZER: Here is the problem. In two weeks or so, the Nevada caucuses and, supposedly, they were planning on using the same app.

CHALIAN: Do you believe they're going to be doing that?

BLITZER: No.

CHALIAN: That's going to be hard to believe. That is a whole other matter. Nevada, ever since they got into the game of being one of the four early states and got a caucus process under way in advance of the 2008 cycle, they modeled everything they were doing on how Iowa does it.

I remember Iowa Democrats went to Nevada for a big stretch of time, trained them on how to do caucuses, how you make this work. As you note, they're using the same app.

You're right. February 22nd is not that far away. Nevada has to figure out how to adjust here.

BLITZER: They got a problem, a big problem right now.

David, thank you.

The campaigns are about to be briefed by the Iowa Democratic Party. Will they get a clear timetable for the caucus results to be posted?

[11:10:14]

Much more of our special coverage right after this.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: There's a new explanation coming out of the Iowa state party to help us understand how this went wrong. But it happens to be the same as the original explanation, which is their system did not work. They did not handle the flow of information that was coming in through the technology they had.

You'll now start seeing headlines in different pieces about coding errors. It takes you back to the same place. They were not prepared to do the job they were supposed to do and they still haven't fixed it.

That leaves the campaigns in a place of trying to find ways to play to advantage and figure out how to basically create a reality of where we are right now.

Which raises a very basic question. Not to blame unfairly, but if you look at all the different things that happened with Iowa, often the best discussions on television happened in the commercial breaks.

And one of the things we were talking about is that, Alexandra Rojas, the idea of where Bernie did well and how he did well with an emerging Muslim community in Iowa, which is partly a function that they were using mosques as precincts for the first time. But it's an 88 percent white state.

You guys keep saying the Democratic parties has got to be about diversity and the growth of America and where it is and not just silos. Why start in Iowa?

[11:15:00]

ALEXANDRA ROJAS, FORMER 2016 BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN ORGANIZER: I mean, I think we have to operate on the system we have now, and Iowa is the first state.

But I think moving forward, certainly it does make sense. I think most of Bernie's national rise, at least recently, has been from Latinos. It has been from Muslims from California or Texas and, obviously, the tiny sliver of folks here in Iowa.

But I think the future of Democratic campaigning, a good lesson for all campaigns is to take no vote for granted. Don't talk to a tiny sliver of the population that you know is going to vote. Capture the broad swath of Americans waiting to feel heard by a politician.

And I think that's where Latinos, especially in this moment, Muslims feeling who are under attack by this president, really feel like Bernie Sanders is sticking up for them.

(CROSSTALK)

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. We have got to completely do what you're talking about. And the only way to do that is to make sure we have diverse states on day one.

We need to eliminate caucuses because they're anti-Democratic, especially for people who can't go to the place. Only 16 percent of people historically have participated who are eligible to vote. It is anti-Democratic.

This is not to blame Iowans. But you should have Iowa be a primary. You should have Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina on the same day, first, all four, to address the --

(CROSSTALK)

DAVID AXELROD, CNN CONTRIBUTOR & CNN HOST, "AX FILES": -- argument but not about -- it doesn't have to be -- I think the Iowa caucuses are dead, dead, dead. I don't think that's even a discussion anymore. I think that the nail has been driven through the Iowa caucuses.

But it shouldn't be driven through the idea that the campaign should start in a discreet small state or a state --

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: -- at least one state where candidates actually have to go and interact with human beings, where everything isn't landing on a tarmac, making an antiseptic speech, an anodyne speech and moving on to your next thing.

This is the only place in the process --

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: -- where people meet. And that's how candidates, who are not well known, have a chance to leverage their way in. That's how a Barack Obama came forward. That's how --

(CROSSTALK)

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR & CNN HOST, "THE VAN JONES SHOW": Somebody spent a lot of time in California. I think that state is exactly what is wrong with American politics right now. The state is so big, you have to spend so much money, it is all on television, and you have very little interaction with real people.

I think it says something about -- one reason Elizabeth Warren -- we haven't talked about enough -- one reason she started to breakthrough and resonate is she said, I'm not going to talk to big donors. I'm going to put myself in small living rooms with people. And she started listening better. She started talking a lot better.

And I do think something about that -- (CROSSTALK)

JONES: -- interaction matters.

GRANHOLM: You can do that with these four small states. Remember -- and I appreciate the sort of nostalgia of being able to do this. I think it is important to be able to go one on one.

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: -- start with one state. I hear you. But these campaigns now start 18 months ahead of time. If you can't get to the four small states in 18 months, then why are you --

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: I'm not saying to, like, totally -- I agree with you about California. It can't be California. It is too crazy.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: So give it to us.

GRANHOLM: -- small states, Nevada --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The governor says the first four all in the same day.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: That's a plausible --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: That's a plausible idea.

JESS MCINTOSH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You can shake those hands.

(CROSSTALK)

MCINTOSH: But I want to think about what the field would look like right now if we started that way. Would we still have Booker? Would we still have Kamala?

(CROSSTALK)

MCINTOSH: Would we still have Castro.

(CROSSTALK)

MCINTOSH: The idea is that we're infusing this primary from those candidates who were really exciting. And I'm glad there are candidates who are still in the race who have picked those up and run with them.

CUOMO: Right. MCINTOSH: But we would probably be looking at a field that was much more representative of the electorate they hope to win over if we --

(CROSSTALK)

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: But we heard these arguments every four years. About --

(CROSSTALK)

MCINTOSH: Not from --

BORGER: That's right. And not from the Democrats as much as -- look, Rick Santorum was here last night. I'm old enough to remember when he had to wait two weeks --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: -- in 2012, to get his results on the Iowa caucuses. And so every year, it is sort of like, well --

(CROSSTALK)

GRANHOLM: They recognize -- I think, Iowa recognizes --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: No, I don't think Iowa recognizes.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: I was texting -- I was texting last night with the former chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party, who said very clearly, this isn't about Iowa, this is a glitch, people should wait a day,

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: That's not -- this is a -- can I just --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: For the Democratic Party this is the question: When will the Democratic Party decide --

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: This seems to me, though, this seems to me like a second order issue because that is going to be litigated after this election.

BORGER: That's true.

AXELROD: There's an election going on here. And the question is, where are we coming out of this thing.

(CROSSTALK) JONES: You said the word "glitch." I just want to point out that when you look at the advertising for this app that failed, one of the big points was it is a low-cost solution by a not-for-profit organization. This is -- I love not-for-profit organizations. This is not the thing you want a low-cost solution for.

[11:20:09]

You have a billion dollars -- I don't know how much money was spent in the state.

MCINTOSH: Yes, $68 million.

JONES: So $68 million spent on the state. And like, guess what, we're going to save on the app? Listen, 60,000 bucks on an app, that's not --

(CROSSTALK)

AXELROD: I have a low-cost solution, pads, hands.

(LAUGHTER)

JONES: Sharpies.

AXELROD: Phone banks. It worked for a long time.

JONES: Here's an important point. I really just want to point this out. There are some things, when you have a single point of failure for anything significant, that's not where you go cheap. You want to do -- if you got to spend money anywhere and you had a single point of failure in everybody's hand -- and we're paying a huge price, unbelievable price. You can add a zero to how much money was spent and still --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The difference here is that -- it is not a difference. But the distinction is, often we're in the search for why. The Iowa story is not a "why" story because I don't care what the explanation is. You didn't do your job, OK? We're not fascinated by the idea it was an app and a glitch in coding like nobodies what those words mean.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Everybody's life is about apps. We understand. You should have been able to get it right. You said you had three backups to the backup. This couldn't have been true because you would have the numbers by now.

It is a "what" story. It is a "what" story. Why? Because this party is trying to figure out who best takes on the president of the United States, one of the most-fierce campaigners I've ever seen in my life. And you are nowhere closer to that.

And now your next step to do it, which is New Hampshire, to give some sense of semblance, even though you won't have the diversity throw you're looking for, is compromised. So now you're further behind.

We have to take a break. When we come back, we'll be in the hunt for new information about where the Iowa Democratic Party believes this process will go and when.

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[11:26:55]

BLITZER: We're getting some new information, a lengthy statement just released by Troy Price, of the Iowa Democratic Party.

What are you -- tell us the upshot of this, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Just to be clear, this was a statement given to the campaigns ahead of a call that CNN has already reported that they're going to have at the top of the hour. And we obtained the letter. And it's lengthy. I'll read you the most important part.

"We have every indication that our systems were secure and there was not a cybersecurity intrusion. In preparation for the caucuses, our systems were tested by independent cybersecurity consultants."

"As precinct caucus results started coming in, the IDP ran them through an accuracy quality check, it became clear there were inconsistencies with the reports. The underlying cause of those inconsistencies was not immediately clear and required investigation, which took time."

"As the investigation unfolded, IDP staff activated a preplanned backup measures and entered data manually. This took longer than expected. As part of our investigation, we determined with certainty the underlying data collected via the app was sound."

While the app was reporting data accurately, it was reporting out only partial data. We have determined this was due to a coding issue in the reporting system. The issue was identified and fixed. The applications reporting issue did not impact the ability of precinct chairs to report data accurately."

It goes on to say, "Because of the required paper documentation, we have been able to verify that the data reported in the app and used to calculate state delegate equivalents is valid and accurate. Precinct level results are still being reported to the IDP."

"While the plan is to release the results as soon as possible today, our ultimate goal is to ensure that the integrity and accuracy of the process continues to be upheld."

This is Troy Price, the chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party. This is a letter to the campaigns.

So he's kind of explaining what happened with the app, but also saying that the backup system is working, and the data, meaning the votes, who won, where they won, what the actual percentages are, is valid. And yet, it doesn't say, as we were talking about as we got this

letter, where are the votes. If they have all the information, why aren't we seeing them what is the --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: What is the answer?

CHALIAN: No, it doesn't make sense.

BLITZER: Yes.

CHALIAN: If you have -- if you -- I get everything that Troy Price is saying in this letter to the campaigns, this is why it took long last night, we had to investigate, then the backup plan took longer than we anticipated. So there's a lot of explaining there of why.

But then he gets to, we have verified accurate results. We have totally been able to tell that what they input into the app, according to our backup paper record, matches. So the numbers that were put into the app were accurate. Something in the app didn't report them out accurately to the party, which is where they saw the inconsistencies from what was being put in and what was coming out to them.

[11:29:59]

But they now have gone to the paper and they say, yes, we verified in this precinct, we can see the paper preference card here, it matches what the caucus chair input into the app -- ,this is a verified accurate result, down to the percentages, then where is the information?