Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Event/Special
President Trump Set To Deliver State Of The Union Address; Chaos In Iowa; Former Mayor Pete Buttigieg (D), Presidential Candidate, Has Narrow Iowa Lead With 62 Percent Reporting. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired February 04, 2020 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Let's take a look at the popular vote right now, once again, 62 percent of the precincts reporting.
Bernie Sanders in first place, 1,190 votes ahead of Pete Buttigieg. He's got 28,220, Buttigieg 27,030, Elizabeth Warren 22,254, Biden 14,176, Klobuchar 13,357, Andrew Yang and Tom Steyer way behind.
Let's take a look at the top, the top contenders right now in the Iowa caucuses. Among the state delegates, which is the all-important, what matters the most, the top five right now, once again, Buttigieg, Sanders, Warren, Biden and Klobuchar.
Let's go over to John King. He's taking a much closer look at all of this unfolding in what we like to call our Magic Wall.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And we're waiting.
Again, we don't know when the Iowa Democratic Party is going to give us more results. But with 62 percent in, you asked me a question earlier about what's missing. They have adjusted those numbers, so we trust them now.
But the main headline is at the moment with 62 percent of the vote in, it is Mayor Pete Buttigieg leading in the race for delegates in the state of Iowa. Senator Sanders campaign saying they're confident by the time they get to the end, they will catch up. We shall see.
One of the places to watch there, you just look. Sanders is leading out here in Woodbury County. So you look, what do we have in here, 66 percent reporting in that county. You come over here to this county, where Mayor Buttigieg is ahead by quite a big margin, Sanders not in play here, 57 percent in.
So we're just -- you look at the different counties, 78 percent here, not a very close race with Senator Sanders. But if you move to the eastern part of the state, where Sanders is running stronger, you say, OK, well, Pete Buttigieg is just leading down here in Scott County. Senator Sanders won it four years ago, relatively close. We're at 48 percent.
So there are places. The Sanders campaign says, when the rest of this vote comes in, the numbers will change. We will see that when the Iowa Democratic Party brings it in.
But at 62 percent, as we see this, one more thing I just want to show you, Wolf. This is a -- these -- showing all 99 counties because those counties that have reported, 100 percent or less, so any county would votes out show up here.
We come over this way and just pull this out a little bit. Let's just come over here, get to the two-thirds area here. Counties, 66 percent or more, you see a lot more open here.
So there's still a lot of counties that are not over 66 percent of the voting. So we're waiting. So it's very careful. We should be very cautious about remembering we're not done yet.
And we have to wait for the Iowa Democratic Party. But when you come back to what we do know and everything that is in so far, this is impressive. Mayor Pete Buttigieg leading or tied in 63 of Iowa's 99 counties. That shows you the depth and the breadth of the organization.
Here's another way to look at it. If you come into some of these elections, number one, where is Mayor Buttigieg running first? I just told you that, 63, but then you keep it going here, where's he running second?
Sorry. She gets a little finicky sometimes. Come back out here. Where is he running second and third? Almost everywhere. So in places that Biden is winning, in places that Sanders is winning, in places that Senator Klobuchar is winning, Mayor Buttigieg is picking up delegates because he's running a strong second or a strong third in these places, which makes the depth and the breadth of it so interesting.
BLITZER: Can you do the same thing for Sanders, Warren, Biden, Klobuchar?
I just want our viewers to get a sense.
KING: Right. Absolutely.
And that's where it looks. Number one, you can't see. Senator Klobuchar is fifth in terms of the delegate chase. She's down here. Our board shows four at time, 12.6 percent, former vice president 15.6 percent. So Joe Biden running ahead of her at the moment when it comes to delegates, but if you do it this way, and you just look at the depth of organization, number one, let's look at the former vice president, former two-term vice president of the United States.
How many counties is he leading at the moment in the race for delegates? One, two, three, four, five, six.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Out of 99.
KING: Yes, tied in a couple of counties as well. That's a pretty disappointing performance for -- Iowa is not his place. But if you take a flip side of that, Senator Klobuchar.
She's from Minnesota, so she has name recognition in the area, but we knew we would look along the Minnesota border for signs of her strength, but there are signs of strength other areas as well, including down here. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
We're not done yet, leading in more counties when it comes to delegates than the former vice president of the United States, pretty good organization there. One of the other things, let's just show -- pan this out for Klobuchar.
This is not -- Warren is where you see this more, but Senator Klobuchar, if you add in second and third, you do see especially up here closer to Minnesota, but a lot of strength here, picking up a little bit of support in delegates as you go.
The candidate I find that most interesting with is Senator Warren, who at one point -- well, let's do it with Senator Sanders, because he was very competitive last time. First place, not -- nowhere near as many as Mayor Buttigieg.
And when you come in here and add in -- they did that again. Got to get the timing right.
You add in his second and his third, that's what you see Senator Sanders, and that's why the Sanders campaign says, we're not done yet, because we only have 62 percent in. These are all the counties where he's either right now first, second, or third.
So we will get -- let's get the rest of the vote in and see, and see if he can come back and catch that up. One of the interesting things is if you look at Senator Warren, who has been out in Iowa for a long time talking about organization, this is pretty stunning, not one of the 99 counties where Senator Warren is leading.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: This is a tied county here.
[18:05:00]
BLITZER: Who is she tied with there?
KING: But not one where she is leading.
Let me pull this up. Come on up here. It was Mayor Buttigieg in Iowa County 26-26 right there, Senator Sanders at 24. This county says it's at 100 percent. So this one might be done. It ends in a tie.
But this is interesting, where she's running third in the chase for delegates at 18.3 percent, yet not leading anywhere except for this one tie.
How'd you do that? Well, if you look at it this way, you add in her second and her third. So running second and third in a fair amount of counties across Iowa and picking up some of the delegates as we go through it, but, again, if you come out to the main story here, the question is, will it change, at 62 percent?
Mayor Buttigieg winning in rural areas, winning in the east, progressive areas, winning out here, where you have more establishment Democrats, winning -- it's interesting. I wanted -- I looked at it this way earlier.
So, if we go back four years ago, it's a two-person race. So it's not always a great apples and apples comparison, but Hillary Clinton's top 10 counties, meaning by margin of victory, not by the size of the county and the states, you see Mayor Buttigieg, one, two, three, four, five, six of Hillary Clinton's top 10, tied in two of the others. Senator Klobuchar there.
So the Clinton counties, Hillary Clinton's best counties, it is Pete Buttigieg, not the establishment candidate, Vice President Joe Biden, doing the best there.
Now we come into Senator Sanders' top 10 counties four years ago, come down here and switch that out. And you see Pete Buttigieg. One, two, three, four of Senator Sanders' top 10.
This one will come out give you a fifth. So in five of Bernie Sanders' top 10 counties. So this is what Buttigieg is going to try to tell people: I actually have the breadth in the party. I can win where Sanders is strong. I can win where Clinton was strong.
Again, we're not to the finish line yet. But you just heard the mayor in New Hampshire. He's trying to turn this into bragging rights. Senator Sanders says, be patient. These calls will change as the count goes on.
The question is for these other candidates, how is that viewed -- 18 percent, how is that viewed by fund-raisers? She's on to New Hampshire now in her neighborhood in Massachusetts. We know how that's going to be viewed. This is a struggle for the vice president. He now has a huge stakes in New Hampshire.
Again, Sanders, Warren, even Deval Patrick, who's not showing up in the polls much, but from the neighborhood of New Hampshire, this is going to be a problem raising money. And the question here is, she's on the debate stage fright in New Hampshire. If he is emerging as the centrist, moderate alternative to the vice president, can she turn a relatively strong, but not great performance in Iowa?
Again, we will see if the numbers change as they come in. Can she do something in the next few days in New Hampshire?
BLITZER: Just some perspective. How unusual is it that the top four candidates among state delegates, with 62 percent of the precincts reporting, are above 15 percent and the fifth, Amy Klobuchar, she's almost at 15 percent?
KING: Yes, in terms -- if you're asking for historical perspective, this is what makes this race so interesting and why, in somewhat defense of the debacle that happened last night, it's hard to count with all these candidates. BLITZER: Let's take a look back.
KING: If you go back in time, remember, this was really a two-way race here.
But if we go back to a race that people remember a lot more importantly, people forget, Senator Obama, then Senator Edwards and Secretary Clinton, Senator Clinton at this point back in 2008, before Obama won, relatively close.
Bill Richardson at 2.2 percent. But you had three strong candidates, three candidates in the 30 percent, splitting, essentially, almost three ways, although Obama with the 35 percent, just shy of that, claiming victory in Iowa. That was his springboard.
BLITZER: That really propelled him. Yes.
KING: That was his springboard.
But it is interesting you see the three candidates here. And now you have more candidates, and four about 15 percent, Senator Klobuchar hoping to get there as the rest of the votes come in. Andrew Yang and Mr. Steyer obviously competed in Iowa, but their numbers are pretty low down there.
BLITZER: If it finishes this way, I'm told it's unprecedented that four candidates would be above 15 percent.
KING: Yes.
BLITZER: And, once again, in a Democratic primary, in a caucus, Democratic caucus in Iowa, and, remember, only 62 percent, a third, a third of the vote is still out.
KING: Still out.
And, again, given what happened yesterday, the Iowa Democratic Party says it will get us that vote as soon as it is 100 percent sure. I'm guessing they want to be 200 percent sure, given what happened. So we don't know when.
Keep an eye on this throughout the night. If we're on live television, and you see colors start to change, that means they're giving us more votes.
BLITZER: We're going to have a lot more to assess, much more coming up, also interviews with Amy Klobuchar, Pete Buttigieg.
Much more of our special coverage right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:13:18]
BLITZER: Let's go out to New Hampshire.
Kate Bolduan has got a very special guest -- Kate.
KATE BOLDUAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey there, Wolf. Thanks so much.
Pete Buttigieg here with me right now, fresh off the stage, literally fresh off the stage.
Mayor, thanks for being here.
FORMER MAYOR PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Sure thing.
BOLDUAN: And right after you saw these partial initial results coming out of Iowa, your reaction?
You said better late than never from the stage. What do you say?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, it amounts to a remarkable victory for our campaign's vision and message. And I'm just so humbled by the support that we got from, as far as I can tell -- and I haven't seen the very latest map -- but as far as I can tell, every different parts of the state, different kinds of communities, a lot of those counties that famously switched from President Obama to Trump, and now we need to bring back into the fold.
It's just an extraordinary validation for our belief that we can unify people and unify people both to lead and to win in an election that we can't afford to lose.
BOLDUAN: Any regrets of using the word victorious now?
BUTTIGIEG: Not at all.
I mean, this is definitely a victory for this campaign. I know we got some more math coming in. But any way you cut it ,for a campaign that folks said had no business even daring to try to get on the stage a year ago, we have been able to do something extraordinary.
And it's a credit to the team, to the organizers that we had, to the values that they carried as they engaged with caucus-goers and, above all, I think to the vision that we are offering to turn the page and move to the future.
BOLDUAN: Look, I have been following you not only throughout your campaign, but all throughout today.
And on stage just now, you became emotional in the moment.
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
BOLDUAN: What does this moment mean?
BUTTIGIEG: It's extraordinary.
This is a moment that we have been building towards from when we first opened that exploratory committee with four people in a tiny office in South Bend, no big e-mail list, no personal fortune, no campaign money either. [18:15:05]
I mean, we had to build this thing from scratch. And to see how far we have come, what we have been able to do -- now, again, it's the end of the beginning, right? I mean, there is a long road ahead.
But, again, it shows you the power of having a message and connecting with voters, with caucus-goers, who spend a year working you over, kicking the tires on your ideas, looking you in the eye. And just the ability to earn that support is so moving.
BOLDUAN: But, look, it was almost a year ago to the day that we were sitting on your couch in your living room with Chasten in South Bend.
BUTTIGIEG: That's right.
BOLDUAN: And now you are making history in this moment.
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
BOLDUAN: Just let that set in. And what does that mean?
You are the -- with the first contest in the rear-view mirror, you are the leading candidate right now.
BUTTIGIEG: Yes. Yes, it's extraordinary.
And it also, I hope, means something to a lot of people wondering if they fit in, people who are different, people who don't know if they belong in their community or in their family. This is a proof that you can believe in yourself and in your country.
BOLDUAN: Look, if it's not first out of Iowa, does second place change your reaction?
BUTTIGIEG: No. I mean, look at where we are. I mean, to have come from where we have come from, to be part of such a remarkable field of Democrats who I have different ideas from, but also admire and respect deeply, and to have come now to the front of this process, it's -- well, I don't know what to call it, other than a victory, and a humbling one, when you think about where we began.
BOLDUAN: Does the messy way that this has rolled out, does this rob you of momentum that you might otherwise have coming out of Iowa heading into New Hampshire, where we are now?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, the single best piece of news our campaign got since we got into this race, it, of course, would have been nice to have gotten it yesterday.
But I also think, at the end of the day, this is about the road ahead. We have now been able to settle a lot of questions about what kind of organization we could put together and whether we could reach caucus- goers, voters in many different kinds of places.
But so much depends on what comes next. We have got to make sure that we have a fund-raising surge. It's why I'm always asking folks to go to PeteforAmerica.com and chip in. We have got to make sure that we have the right game plan and organizing game.
Part of how we did this was the outreach that organizers were doing to get to know people. We have got to be ready to do that and, more than anything else, continue to reach out with that message to some folks who may only now be turning into the -- tuning into the process, people who were waiting until there were less than 20 of us to sort through, that we don't have to choose between the best way to govern and the best way to win.
The right way to do both of those things is to have a focus on the future.
BOLDUAN: Look, still waiting for more results to come in tonight, maybe tonight, who knows, to be honest, how this has all played out.
BUTTIGIEG: Yes.
BOLDUAN: From Iowa, from the results that you're seeing, does -- how does it shift your focus here in New Hampshire?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, New Hampshire is a state that famously thinks for itself, doesn't want to be told what to do, and has a very strong independent streak.
So, it's, again, a matter of making sure that we find people where they are. And we have prided ourselves on campaigning, not just in big communities like Manchester.
BOLDUAN: It sounds to me no change in strategy.
BUTTIGIEG: In many ways, it's consistent.
Look, the values of this campaign are going to be consistent. So is the overall approach. But we recognize that every place is different, in New England in particular. Here in New Hampshire, we're competing against two competitors from neighboring states.
We know that creates its own challenges. But we also know that, when we look voters in the eye, tell them what this campaign is about, we get an extraordinary and powerful response.
BOLDUAN: Mayor Buttigieg, thank you so much for being here.
BUTTIGIEG: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: Thanks for coming off the stage.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLDUAN: I really appreciate it.
BUTTIGIEG: Thank you.
BOLDUAN: Anderson, back to you. ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Kate, thanks very much.
Here with the panel.
David Axelrod, there's probably a lot of people looking at Pete Buttigieg for the first time or kind of focusing on him.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
COOPER: What is the path ahead?
AXELROD: Well, interestingly, the way he won in Iowa, and I think he was trying to make this point here, is a road map.
He's offering himself as someone who can bridge the divides in the party.
COOPER: It cost him a lot of money. I mean, they spent a lot of money in Iowa.
AXELROD: Yes, he did.
Look, I think if you chart his rise, it was -- he had a very coordinated campaign that involved paid media and a very coordinated message that was all around this notion of unity.
And Gloria mentioned these -- these entrance polls, which are really advisory. They're not -- we don't know exactly how accurate they are, but it's sort of reflected in the numbers. He ran as -- almost as strongly in suburban, urban and rural areas.
He ran just about the same among various demographic cohorts. He was stronger with some than others, but he did well with all of them. And I think that is really part of his message, which is he is the guy who can bring the different elements of the Democratic Party together.
And as -- this point has been made several times today. He's an outsider, not an insider. He's from outside of Washington, D.C., from the Midwest, has a different set of approaches and values, political values.
[18:20:07]
I think he's going to stress those things. So we will see.
New Hampshire should be good territory for him because he has an appeal to fallen-away Republicans and independents. They're allowed to participate in this primary. And they have famously -- the independents in New Hampshire have shifted from one primary to the other and have made the difference in these primaries.
So it should work for him. but it is crowded. Bernie Sanders is a hometown candidate, Elizabeth Warren, Deval Patrick, and Biden is fighting for his life here.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: And it worked for him to be second choice to everybody in Iowa. That doesn't work so well when you're in a primary.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: So, it's a different situation.
But to David's point also, what was so astonishing about Pete Buttigieg, he didn't win, according to these entrance polls, among moderates and conservatives. Biden did. But he came to second. He didn't win among liberals. Bernie Sanders did, but he came in second.
And that was important to him in Iowa. Whether it works in New Hampshire, we will see.
(CROSSTALK)
JESS MCINTOSH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This was a really Iowa specific-strategy that played out really well for him.
I wanted to shout out Jess O'Connell, who was my old co-worker at EMILY's List, who was the first national strategist brought on for early states. She made sure that there were Iowans running this whole show, but that takes a long time, a very smart ground game.
Can it translate to states where he hasn't gone to everybody's door and met them personally?
AXELROD: Now it's a momentum game.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: I got to get a break in.
We're going to take a short break. Our coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:26:18]
COOPER: And welcoming -- welcome back to our continuing coverage of the Iowa caucus that still kind of lives on; 62 percent of the votes have been tallied.
Mayor Pete Buttigieg right now in the lead, 26.9 percent of state delegates, Bernie Sanders 25.1 percent. We're also 2.5 hours away from the State of the Union.
So it's going to be interesting to see how the president handles what happened in Iowa and obviously also the impeachment issue, whether he brings those things up.
Do you expect he will?
GRANHOLM: I don't think he will bring up impeachment.
He was at a luncheon today with other anchors and said that he wants to give a speech about impeachment the following day. So it seems like he may not want to be focused on impeachment. I don't know if he will be able to resist on Iowa.
COOPER: It's also amazing.
I mean, we -- 62 percent of the vote, we still do not know when more votes are going to be coming in, when more results are going to be coming in.
MCINTOSH: Jeff Zeleny tried so hard to ask that question.
COOPER: That was a question the...
MCINTOSH: And he was absolutely ignored on it.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And it can matter a lot, if you look at what's still outstanding. There are places where Sanders is quite strong, or should be quite strong.
And that could make a big difference. We could have a number two with Mayor Pete.
One of the things about Sanders as you kind of look at all this stuff, he just seems to have a very high floor, but there's a ceiling. Like, with all the other candidates, you saw them having the ability to go and grab a bunch of number twos from other people.
Sanders kind of starts high and stays there. And I think that's part of the disquiet that some people have, even strong progressives, with Bernie Sanders. Can he grow the coalition? The new people who came in didn't seem to come in for him. They seemed to come in maybe for Pete.
We're still going to be digging through this. But if you have got a Sanders campaign that does push ahead, so that he actually winds up being number one, Pete is number two, he's got a bunch of momentum. He will probably well in New Hampshire.
But do you have a candidate who's got a high floor, but a very low ceiling and can't grow?
AXELROD: Another question is how Elizabeth Warren, how long is she going to be in this race? Does she -- can she build on a third-place finish in Iowa? It's hard to do.
JONES: Yes.
AXELROD: And New Hampshire is also, after all, her neighboring state. So New Hampshire becomes a very big state in terms of defining who the progressive standard-bearer is going to be.
But as long as she's in that race -- she took a lot of votes from Bernie Sanders in some of those key, particularly among younger people, college towns, and so on.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: And I think there's overlap with her with Pete Buttigieg as well with kind of college-educated white voters, upper-class voters.
AXELROD: College-educated, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
HENDERSON: What's interesting here is, there -- we haven't really seen a race like this, where -- you think about Obama, Obama had black voters, he also had young voters, he had Latino voters, he had some white voters as well.
And you wonder who among this field is going to be able to approach anything like that coalition. Or maybe it doesn't even happen. Right?
JONES: Warren offered herself to do it.
Warren, in the closing argument, she went away from saying, I have got the plan. She would say that occasionally. But she says, I can bring people together.
HENDERSON: But she couldn't.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: She didn't convince people of it. That's the problem.
And her campaign evolved from, I have got the plan to, please like -- please, I'm electable. And that didn't work for her.
(CROSSTALK)
HENDERSON: And she's got some good African-American surrogates out there for her.
Ayanna Pressley is out there stumping for her.
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: And to Van's point, though, earlier, you were saying -- and I'm curious, Alexandra, what you would say about this, too -- is that Bernie's whole -- so much of the support around him has been that he's going to bring out young people and he's going to expand the electorate.
And we didn't quite see that in Iowa. And so I'm wondering how people are viewing that in your -- in your world.
[18:30:03]
ALEXANDRA ROJAS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JUSTICE DEMOCRATS: Well, when I -- when I was looking at the numbers, it's clear that the turnout numbers in terms of the entire amount of people that turned out was about the same as 2016. But actually when you look at specifically young people, between 17 to 29, they actually did. More people did come out. I think it was something like -- and these aren't official, like David was saying, but it is an increase of about 30 percent.
So he is bringing out definitely young people and, yes, maybe Mayor Pete got some but let's be clear, the majority of folks that got behind Mayor Pete yesterday were moderate or conservative. It wasn't all the people of color, those small within the state. Those went to Bernie Sanders. There was still like an over 20-point lead of Bernie Sanders among young people. So when it comes to a lot of the sort of folks like myself, right, that have come in new, fresh into the party, they are still showing they're with Bernie Sanders. And I think that's going to come bear and --
GRANHOLM: It does worry me about overall, not just with Sanders. But overall, why was it at 2016 levels when there seems to be such an impetus to vote Trump out of office that you would have thought a greater number of people --
MCINTOSH: It doesn't go with the national trend. Since Trump was elected, we have seen massive voter turnout. We have broken records.
GRANHOLM: That's what it is.
MCINTOSH: It could be you can't hold it for that many hours on a Monday night.
AXELROD: One thing people are going to look at is what impact has impeachment had and has it been deflating that this whole impeachment investigation happened, there was a trial, tomorrow, the president will be acquitted, his approval rating is up. Is there a -- I've always felt like one of the problems that Trump has is there is a sense of exhaustion but that exhaustion can work another way, which is people say, I'm tired of all of this, and they walk away. think people will be measuring this to see if that -- if there's any indication of that or is it just so a lot of the candidates were stuck in Washington at that impeachment trial.
One other thing on impeachment, how did it affect Joe Biden in Iowa? There was a thought that people would rally around him because Trump was identifying him as the candidate who he most feared, but there's also a fear among some Democratic voters and I think there was some research done among some of the campaigns there that showed some of this, not that Biden doesn't have integrity. There's huge affection for Joe Biden, respect for Joe Biden, but a fear that he will be a target in the way that Hillary Clinton became a target with the emails and Benghazi.
Now, that may happen to any Democratic candidate. But this was right in people's faces.
GRANHOLM: Yes, of course.
HENDERSON: Yes. I think he, in some ways, put it in people's faces, right? I mean, he sort of wore this as a badge honor that the president was talking about him and that Joni Ernst was talking about him in that way too. I mean, you can't help but notice. I mean, all of this talk about impeachment and Hunter Biden and Joe Biden, I mean, they're much overlapped with Iowa. Obviously, they were coming in, thinking that they were going to be strong, and then, obviously, that didn't happen in Iowa.
ROJAS: I think the other thing that's happened is that for the amount of time, right, that he's been in the race, he's been in public office for over 40 years, even before becoming vice president for Barack Obama and has a troubling record of standing on the wrong side as progressives and other folks, whether it comes to the Iraq War, whether it comes to Wall Street, whether it comes to saying whether or not he stood for civil rights. Like there has been a lot of time since the beginning of his campaign to sort of erode, I think, the trust that voters may have initially had. That's kind of the downside of being in the public eye for so long. And then people --
AXELROD: I wonder if one of the problems is just that -- it's kind of a tactical argument, which is whatever you feel about the other people, I'm the guy who can beat Trump, and beating Trump is the most important thing. Someone said to me it's like that AT&T ad, just okay is not okay.
And that may be a bit of the problem for him in terms of just ginning up enthusiasm. And the thing that he lacked that we saw in Iowa was enthusiasm. And people say, well, forget about that, because people are going to make a head/heart judgment and they're going to say, we're going to pick the person who can beat Donald Trump.
And we think that's -- but I don't think that's the way people vote. I think they pick the candidate they like and they say, I like this candidate, this candidate excites me and therefore I think this candidate can beat --
BORGER: I think Trump looms as a really large factor though, wouldn't you say that?
AXELROD: I think he would insist.
BORGER: And to me, the big question that I have about Joe Biden coming out of this and, again, these entrance polls are not -- but you can't win with voters -- you are can't just get the support of voters 17-44 in single digits? I mean, that's Trump territory. But Trump doesn't do well with young voters either, but Joe Biden doesn't --
[18:35:02]
COOPER: And Joe Biden has run for president before and he has never done well, right? So there's no track record of him --
HENDERSON: No, but Joe Biden, the vice president to Barack Obama had never run for president, and that's who he was presenting himself as.
COOPER: Right. But Joe Biden, even in his prime, was still losing presidential races.
AXELROD: Right, and never got out of Iowa. Iowa was to Joe Biden what Chinatown was to Jake Gittes. Nothing ever happens, an old movie reference.
COOPER: I like it.
AXELROD: Talk about someone appealing to the over 45.
COOPER: I gave an Apocalypse Now reference earlier today and no one got that.
ROJAS: I think Gloria brought up a really good point, and it's not just for Joe Biden but for any candidate that isn't focused on bringing out the young people. We're the future of this country. We're inheriting all of the things that we're all talking about, right, this that agenda that we're fighting for.
And so I think that there's also just a broader question for the Democratic Party, if you are not concerned about the fact that your young support is so low, that's really troubling for our generation and the folks that are coming next. And I think at the end of the day, if what we're going to stand for is fighting for our future, then you better have the future on your side.
BORGER: And, of course, Bernie supporters are younger burr Pete Buttigieg supporters were the largest group, who were between 45 and 64. But the young people all are supporters.
GRANHOLM: And the percentage of the population that they represent.
ROJAS: They do but they shouldn't be blamed for not coming being out when we have a system in a crisis of legitimacy right now. So they have to be inspired and motivated to come out as well.
GRANHOLM: No, they have been inspired, but they have to realize this is an existential crisis for the country and for them and for their future. So everybody has some responsibility and making sure that this guy doesn't continue.
JONES: There's nobody that feels differently than what you're saying. What's interesting about Sanders --
GRANHOLM: But getting them to vote.
JONES: Yes. But you have to have a candidate. And the amazing thing is that the candidate they have is Bernie Sanders. And what's interesting is he's a disruptor, Sanders, but he's the least disruptive disruptor because he's so consistent. When you talk to young people, what they like is, I can go on YouTube and find him 59 years ago saying exactly the same thing. And for whatever reason, as much disruption as the young people want, they still want the comfort of the consistency.
And I think that was Elizabeth Warren's problem, is that she wanted to be in that lane but she moved a lot. And for whatever reason, moving around for these young people means you might be phony, you might be inauthentic and that is a death knell.
And so it's amazing that --
BORGER: Well, it's not only young people.
JONES: Well, sure. But I think -- look, I think that your generation has been lectured a lot about what you should be doing. I see guys doing a lot and trying to do a lot but I don't see you having the choices that match preferences. And what I would say is simply this. Bernie Sanders' consistency and his you authenticity has become the gold standard. Everybody else now gets matched against -- well, hold on, a second, if Bernie can be consistent for 950 generations, why can't you be consistent for like two debates?
COOPER: I want to go to Wolf. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, let's get back to John King over here at the magic wall. John, I just want to remind our viewers that 62 percent of the precincts reporting, we learned that a little while ago, 38 percent of the precincts still outstanding. We have no idea when the Iowa Democratic Party is going to release that 38 percent. That's important. But right now, Pete Buttigieg among state delegates, and that's the critically important part, is slightly ahead, 26.9 percent, and Bernie Sanders, 25.1 percent.
KING: All right. And for anyone who was watching a bit earlier, when our Kate Bolduan interviewed him in New Hampshire, number one, let me stress first, the Bernie Sanders campaign says, when we get to 100 percent, they're confident they can catch up. So we need to stress, we're not at the finish line yet. But we do have 62 percent.
And Mayor Buttigieg, look all this light green across the map, he is making the case that he has proven in Iowa that a small town mayor from Middle America, he says he can united the Democratic Party. He says he's running well, for example, right here, Scott County. This is a county that Bernie Sanders carried four years ago, a more liberal progressive county in Iowa. You see the senator in second place, but Mayor Buttigieg winning there.
He says that he can do it as well, he's winning up here in Dubuque County. This is a place where Hillary Clinton won four years ago, he says he can win establishment votes as well, especially out in these rural areas out here, more moderate to conservative Democrats. He is making the case. In part, one of the efforts Mayor Buttigieg has made in New Hampshire was, he said there are 31 counties in Iowa, so-called pivot county, voted twice for Barack Obama and then voted for Donald Trump, as Donald Trump carried Iowa in the 2016 general elections.
If you look at those 31 counties, in quite a few of them, Mayor Buttigieg proved his point. He went into these counties and said, we need a moderate, centrist Democrat who can reach out to both sides of the party from Middle America. He's going to make the case in New Hampshire if these results hold up against 62 percent. I want to emphasize that that he could prove that point.
So an impressive night. We're not across the finish line yet. But if you just look across these 99 counties in Iowa, in 63 of them, almost two-thirds, Mayor Buttigieg is leading or tied.
[18:40:04]
Tied are the white counties here. If you look at Bernie Sanders, if you go back to four years ago, in some ways this is not fair because it's a two-person race but you see how well Bernie Sanders ran the lighter blue, especially here in Eastern Iowa. And you come back now, he's sharing, obviously, sharing the delegates with more candidates, but Mayor Buttigieg running strong there and Bernie Sanders.
If you look -- if you bring this up, this place where he ran first across the state, Mayor Buttigieg tied or leading in 63. It's a much a smaller number for Bernie Sanders. But still a strong performance by Senator Sanders, at 25 percent here of the delegates so far as we wait for the results to come in.
Just a couple other quick points, number one, if you come out of this and close this out, let's come back to the full state, only a half dozen counties where the former vice president of the United States, Joe Biden, is leading right now. That's a disappointing performance there.
In more counties but with a smaller percentage of the delegates, the Minnesota senator, Amy Klobuchar, that's the darker green. You see up here along the Minnesota border, but also over here and down here as well. Question is, she's below 15 percent right now, can she move that number up when the final vote comes in, can she use that with any one in New Hampshire, a bit of an open question there.
The Warren number, you see her, third, when we come up here, you see, Senator Warren third even though not one of the 99 counties is she leading right now. So she did not pull off any victories by county in the delegate equivalence as you go through this, but she does have a stronger organization when you look at places, no first, but if you bring in the second and you bring in the third when come out of the -- it's stuck in there for some reason. That should have -- all right, let's come back in that. She's having a little glitch at the moment.
You get out of this, they come back to the front. Sometimes you get it to reset. There you go. And you see here in the second and third, she had a strong organization enough to pick delegates in places where she was not winning. And, again, we're still at 62 percent. We'll see if that number comes up any more.
But if you just come back to the full map, just look at the depth from all across the state, Mayor Buttigieg invested a lot of money, invested a lot of organizations. The question now is can he use this bounce as we move on to New Hampshire and beyond.
And if you look at the Vice President, again, his campaign is saying, Iowa was never our base, hoping he can rally in New Hampshire. It's a tough case to make when you're the former sitting vice president, and at the moment, you're running fourth in the State of Iowa.
BLITZER: Some of his supporters have pointed out, historically speaking, and you and I have covered this over the years, the three last Democratic presidents of the United States started off with not much name recognition, not much -- not many people outside their home states knew them, whether it was Jimmy Carter in Georgia or Bill Clinton in Arkansas or Barack Obama, junior senator in Illinois. They came to Iowa, and all of a sudden they did well and that propelled them. KING: In Clinton's case, the first time around, Tom Harkin was on the ballot. Clinton did it later and then come back. That was an odd campaign in New Hampshire. But in the case of Barack Obama -- and Jimmy Carter put Iowa on the map. Nobody knew nor cared much about the Iowa caucuses until Jimmy Carter. And certainly, Buttigieg is helping.
And his campaign has a lot of style, new, fresh face, be different. Jake and Dana were talking about this earlier. It's a remarkable achievement. We'll see if this holds up, an openly gay candidate for president right now leading in delegates for the Iowa caucuses right now.
The question is can he turn into a springboard. The question is, his campaign team, their visits to their website right now are overwhelming. Does he get the bounce he would have got if we were reporting this last night? We'll see that as this goes forward. But it's a fascinating moment for Mayor Buttigieg against Senator Sanders, very strong in New Hampshire.
I just want to pop this up just to show you when we move on to New Hampshire. This is our poll from last week. Sanders is in the lead. But look, Buttigieg was right on Vice President Biden's heels anyway before the Iowa caucuses. The question is down here, does she suffer or can she rebound in her neighborhood, Senator Warren, as we move on to New Hampshire? I think that part is fascinating. The question is can the vice president recover, can Senator Warren recover, can Senator Klobuchar somehow come out of this, is a fascinating question as we go forward.
BLITZER: Yes, it's interesting indeed. And as you take a look at this, there're a lot of questions still outstanding.
KING: There are. And before you get away, I just want to clean up one thing I said earlier during the breaking news about the release of these results. There was some talk from rival campaigns that they had heard that the vice president might go to court to try to block this, Vice President. That obviously did not happen. And in the breaking newsroom, even though we were skeptical about on their mistake on my part to even mention until we had more time to check it out.
BLITZER: All right, good point. All right, guys, we're going to get a lot more on these results. Remember, 62 percent of the precincts reporting, 38 percent still outstanding, much more right after this.
COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:49:04]
BLITZER: All right. We got a key race alert. Let's take a look.
With 62 percent of the precincts reporting among the state -- the state delegates, the top five right now, Pete Buttigieg with 26.9 percent, Sanders 25.1 percent, Warren 18.3 percent, Biden 15.6 percent, Amy Klobuchar 12.6 percent. Those are among the all important state delegates. The popular vote, let's take a look at the popular vote are right now. You can see, in the popular vote, Bernie Sanders is ahead about 1,109 votes. He's got 28,220 to Pete Buttigieg who's number two, 27,030. Elizabeth Warren, 22, 254. Joe Biden, 14,176 and Amy Klobuchar 13,357.
So, you can see -- you can see there's a discrepancy between the popular vote and the state delegates.
Let's go over to David Chalian because he can explain that discrepancy, why one is number one among state delegates, the all- important number that we're looking at, as opposed to the popular vote.
[18:50:07]
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes. I mean, again, just to stress, as you said, these are the state delegates. This is the metric that matters. This is where we see Pete Buttigieg on top right now with 26.9 percent, followed by Bernie Sanders at 25.1 percent.
Let's compare that to the popular vote. Let's bring that in. And you'll see the order is reversed. It is different. It is Bernie Sanders on top here and Pete Buttigieg, 1,190 votes behind him.
So, just to show you, there are the state delegates. And there is the popular vote. And, Wolf, the reason this is happening and John's map was showing you this. When you see all those green Buttigieg counties across the entire state, that's how the Iowa caucuses actually work. It rewards people, candidate, with very broad support in addition to depth of support.
Bernie Sanders, he could go to Iowa City, let's say, or John was showing you in eastern counties, but where young people are, where college people are, and really run up the score of his popular vote total, bring a lot of people in. But in each of these precincts, there's a cap about how many delegates get awarded.
So, when you're looking for, when they say Iowa is about organization, organization, organization, this is what they mean. It's about having a very broad network of support across the state in all kind of areas so that you are collecting delegates because it is that left-hand board there the delegate percentages that determine the winner. And that's what Buttigieg has done here. There's still 38 percent more of the vote to come in.
We'll see if Bernie Sanders can catch up in it. But that is -- that is how it rewards, not the popular vote is not how you get the winners of the Iowa caucuses.
BLITZER: It's an important point indeed.
Let's check in with Jake and John to get some more.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Wolf.
One thing I'm interested in, and again, we're -- it's still not the full vote, it's 62 percent of the vote. So, we can't draw major conclusions based on the fact that we don't have all the results, but, John, you were making the point that Buttigieg is what we've seen so far, it kind of proves his theory of the case for his election that he has appeal to people in districts and areas that Trump want, right?
KING: There will be people who poke holes at it but his calling card, I'm electable, right? Barack Obama carried Iowa twice in a general election. Joe Biden says I'm electable.
Well, he won a half dozen. He's leading in only a half dozen counties, tied in two others. So, that's a whole.
If you're Pete Buttigieg, you think, excuse me, I'm leading in 63. We're tied. In 63 of the 99 counties, which is just more impressive on its face when you look at it.
But another big part of the Buttigieg message was you said I can win in these Midwestern counties. Pick a guy from Indiana, pick a centrist, I can win the places that Trump turned.
There are 31 counties. Iowa has 99. Think about this -- 31 counties in the state. They're highlighted here. Mayor Buttigieg won 21 of them. They twice voted for Barack Obama and then they flipped to Donald Trump.
Iowa Democrats take these so-called pivot counties very seriously because they want to get their state back. Why does this matter? Most of them are in the eastern part of the state, north central. Let me just draw this line here.
If you go back, we're going to go back to 2016 now and we're going to come to the general election. Look at all this. This is Donald Trump. 2012, Barack Obama, 2008, Barack Obama. So, you're Pete Buttigieg telling Iowa Democrats who are burned that Donald Trump carried their state because they launched Obama, and then they reelected Obama, this happened in their state.
If you're Pete Buttigieg, you say, on the ballot in November I will be more competitive in places like this, in Iowa, in Wisconsin, in the Midwest.
TAPPER: Right.
KING: Now, that's his argument. Now people try to poke holes in it, but that's a pretty good calling card if these numbers hold up.
TAPPER: That's obviously just among Democrats and the Democratic Caucus, but I take your point.
KING: Right, exactly.
TAPPER: So, what I'm wondering about is, what about the arguments, the theory of the case for Biden and for Bernie Sander? Because -- well, let's start with Biden.
Biden's whole calling card is I can win, I'm electable. But how's he doing in the state when it comes to even just beating Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders of Pete Buttigieg?
KING: It is hard. Now, Biden's campaign will say, let's get to more diverse South Carolina. Let's even get to New Hampshire where it's a primary, not a caucus.
But your calling card is electability. You're running fourth. That's in and of itself, that is a counterargument to your calling card.
If Mayor Buttigieg, Senator Sanders, and Senator Warren, are beating you, how are you the strongest candidate?
So, in one contest, you have to see how it goes on. But when you look at the depth and breadth, can you build the big organizations, always been a problem for Biden in the presidential campaign, looks good on paper, can you build an organization? That's disappointing, that's just flat-out disappointing. I don't know what else to say about it.
If you come back in here, and you look at -- one way to look at it, where does Biden come in first? We showed you that. Add in where you came in second, where you came in third there, still a lot of gray. Yes, he's always popular. There's still a lot of gray. The depth and the breadth are just not there.
TAPPER: And the other thing, the theory of the case for Bernie Sanders is, Bernie Sanders says I'll get the disaffected middle class, young, blue-collar voters out. So, even if I alienate some people in the suburbs, I'm going to have such a huge turnout, that we're going to beat Trump.
[18:55:06]
Did he -- was he able to get that huge turnout for the Iowa caucus?
KING: In a word no, we don't see any evidence of that yet. And if you just go back to his ten best counties from four years ago, you can see he didn't win all the places where he was strongest four years ago. We don't have the final turnout numbers yet but this is not great.
BURNETT: All right. Stay with CNN as we bring you updates on the Iowa caucus results.
In the midst of this, of course, President Trump is about to deliver his State of the Union Address. We'll be back with live coverage of that in about an hour.
Until then, "ERIN BURNET OUTFRONT" is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
