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CNN Live Event/Special
Trump to Deliver Speech With Pelosi Just Behind Him; Buttigieg Has Narrow Iowa Lead with 62 Percent Reporting; Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D- MN) is Interviewed About the Controversy Over Iowa Caucuses. Aired on 8-9p ET
Aired February 04, 2020 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:18]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: And good evening.
We're about to witness something extraordinary. President Trump will soon leave the White House and walk into the House chamber where he was impeached to deliver his State of the Union Address about an hour from now.
I'm Anderson Cooper with a special edition of AC360.
It promises to be an incredibly awkward moment as President Trump addresses the nation on Nancy Pelosi's turf, with the speaker looking over his shoulder. He'll be face-to-face with her and with the House Democrats who charged him with high crimes and misdemeanors.
Also in the room, jurors at his impeachment trial, the senators will vote tomorrow whether to re remove him from office. The Republican majority poised to acquit him.
I want to bring in Wolf Blitzer, Jake Tapper.
Wolf, the president speaks soon. What do you expect?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Anderson, the big question tonight, the impeachment factor, will it even come up in the president's address? The White House spokesman says he's read the speech and did not see the word, impeachment, but he doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility that Mr. Trump will allude to it in some way.
Let's go to our chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta.
Jim, the president may not necessarily talk about impeachment tonight. But we hear he was fuming about it earlier today.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf. All day long, aides have been saying President Trump is not expected to talk about his impeachment during tonight's address. One official just told me a few moments ago it is, quote, unlikely, but the subject is clearly under the president's skin.
An off-the-record lunch with network news anchors earlier today, an event CNN was barred from attending, the president went off on former national security adviser John Bolton and his upcoming book which is shedding a lot of light on the Ukraine scandal. The president described Bolton at one point as a turncoat, and ripped into his performance as national security adviser saying he botched the administration's efforts to get a nuclear deal with North Korea.
Now, the president also said Bolton could face, quote, criminal penalties if he goes ahead and publishes that book. Mr. Trump went on to say he doesn't, talking about Bolton here, does not deserve the title of ambassador and should just feel lucky that he got to work at the Trump White House.
Clearly, Wolf, the president is still frustrated with John Bolton and, of course, as I mentioned, all of this was discussed at an off-the- record lunch with network news anchors earlier today.
CNN was not invited to that lunch. But we're going to report on it -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, standby. Dana Bash is up at statuary hall.
Dana, it could be a little awkward tonight when the president of the United States meets with the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. What are you hearing?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: This whole thing is awkward. It takes awkward to a new level, Wolf, because here we are in the United States Capitol where everybody has been focused, particularly in the Senate, on the impeachment trial the president of the United States and he is coming to this capitol in the middle of it before it is done. That's the story line A.
Story line B is the House speaker. He's going to be in her house tonight giving that speech. She confirmed to myself and to other television anchors and reporters who met with her and the Senate Democratic leader today, she confirmed she has not spoken to the president of the United States in about four months, since October. Since that now-infamous iconic meeting that she had with the president and many members of his national security team about Syria.
You remember she got up, she walked out. She talked to him about -- about Putin. He released the photo of her pointing at him. She took it, made it her profile picture. It was that moment, that meeting, that was the last interaction the two of them have had, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. Dana, standby.
You know, Jake, this could be a combustible moment up there. You heard what -- you heard what Jim Acosta said. The president is fuming. You heard from Dana Right now, they haven't spoken, Pelosi and the president, what, since October.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Yes. No. Obviously, the situation is combustible. Although, we should point out a president giving a State of the Union Address after having been impeached but before the Senate has acquitted him is not unprecedented. In 1999 bill Clinton did exactly that. Now, obviously, there are quite a bit of differences between President
Trump and President Clinton. One of which, of course, is the fact that at this point in the Clinton presidency, during the impeachment trial, he was apologizing. He was chastened. He was trying to convey to the nation that he was sorry for what he did.
This is, of course, after months and months of lying about it, but at that point, he was saying he was sorry. President Trump, conversely, is conveying the exact opposite. Not only is he not sorry, he's acting as if he did not do anything wrong. Even though some of the Republican senators who tomorrow we anticipate will vote to acquit him, they are saying that they do think he did something wrong, just not something worthy of removal from office.
BLITZER: So what are you expecting tonight?
[20:05:00]
We know he's got a scripted speech. It could go on even more than an hour, maybe. Some are suggesting an hour and a half. It's all going to be on teleprompter but he likes to deviate.
TAPPER: Yes, I mean, I think it's a fool's errand to try to predict anything that this very unpredictable president will do. It's likely that his aides have said to him, boss, you're having a great week, you're having a winning week, the Democrats' Iowa caucus is a disaster, your approval rating for Gallup is the highest it's been in your entire presidency, 49 percent approve, 50 percent disapprove, and in addition, you're about to be acquitted, so, don't rock the boat.
Maybe that argument will prevail. We're told his advisers have said that they do not think that he will mention the word, impeachment, in his speech, but on the other hand, this is a president who is unpredictable, who likes to disrupt and tends to do things for short- term emotional gain if not necessarily in his own long-term interest.
BLITZER: It's interesting in that Gallup poll, yes, 49 percent of the American public, which is a high for him, approve of the job he is doing, but 94 percent of Republicans, 94 percent of Republicans, approve of the job he's doing.
TAPPER: You know, it's funny, for months now he's been saying he had 95 percent approval rating among Republicans and it has not been true, but somehow, he has willed it into truth because now he does almost have that exact percentage in terms of approval rating among Republicans, and this is one of the reasons why you see House Republicans and Senate Republicans going along with everything he wants, even when they don't agree with it because he has such a hold on the Republican base.
BLITZER: Amazing, that hold, indeed.
All right. There's a lot going on. There's going to be drama up on Capitol Hill. As we await the president's State of the Union address.
There's also drama in the Democratic presidential contest. Take a look at the results: 62 percent of the precincts reporting in Iowa. We'll update you on that.
Lots of news. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:10:50]
BLITZER: In the Democratic presidential race, let's start with a key race alert. Take a look at this -- with 62 percent of the precincts reporting based on the Iowa caucuses, these are state delegates, the all-important state delegates.
Pete Buttigieg with 26.9 percent. Bernie Sanders in second place, 25.1 percent. Elizabeth Warren, 18.3 percent. Joe Biden, 15.6 percent.
Amy Klobuchar, look at this, not too far behind, 12.6 percent. Yang, Steyer, neither in the ballpark. Let's go over to John King right now. Remember, John, this is 62 percent of the precincts, 38 percent of the precincts outstanding.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, and we don't know yet whether we'll get any more results from the Iowa Democratic Party tonight. This is where we are now.
If you take a look at the map, impressive for Mayor Pete Buttigieg, 26.9 percent of the delegates, 25 percent for Senator Sanders, 25.1 percent, 18.3 for Senator Warren, 15.6 -- you mentioned Amy Klobuchar running fifth with 12.6 percent. Still votes to be counted. So, these are not the final result.
But if you just take a look at it this way, let's just take a look, leading in counties, 99 counties in Iowa, in 64 of the 99. That's pretty impressive. Mayor Buttigieg either leading or tied at the moment, more results coming in.
So a very impressive sweep, if you will, almost statewide by Mayor Buttigieg.
But the Sanders campaign voicing some hope tonight that it can come back, saying it's actually quite optimistic. Can they?
Well, let's take a look through some of these places here. Story County, Ames, College Town, 65 percent of the vote, the Sanders campaign making the case we're leading here, we expect to stay in the lead, maybe we'll boost it up. They have to have very high performance to get that done. We'll see what happens.
The other bragging right, Senator Warren in third place, she hopes in New Hampshire. This one is interesting, struggling for the Vice President of the United States, one, two, three, four, five, only six counties. Senator Klobuchar's team says they think she can report if this is bragging rights one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, leading right now in more counties than the former vice president.
Is that a moral victory? Let's see as more votes come in. BLITZER: Jake is about to speak with Senator Klobuchar -- Jake.
TAPPER: Thanks, Wolf.
Let me bring in from New Hampshire right now, Senator Amy Klobuchar, Democrat of Minnesota.
Senator Klobuchar, thanks so much.
Now, we know the returns are still just --
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: -- just partial and incomplete, but with 62 percent of the precincts reporting out of Iowa, you are in fifth place, within a stone's throw of former Vice President Biden.
How do you assess your standing?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I look at it that I'm 800 votes from the vice president, and we still have 38 percent left to be counted.
The other way I look at it is that I landed in New Hampshire at 4:00 a.m., buoyed by the strong team we put together. We basically did better than a lot of people, outperformed what people thought we would do. And here we are in New Hampshire, I literally land and find out we're tied for second place with Senator Sanders from his neighboring state out front and the rest of the four of us literally tied in a poll that came out yesterday.
And that's what we are feeling on the ground. We've had huge events all day, from Concord to Nashua to Portsmouth. And we're pretty excited about how we're doing here.
For me, this is a primary, Jake. A lot of independent voters, similar to some of the elections that I've won big in Minnesota. So, we're pretty excited about being here in New Hampshire.
TAPPER: So, it's a good night last night for your fellow Midwesterner, Pete Buttigieg. He is positioning himself as one of the more moderate choices in the race. He currently holds a narrow lead, although who knows what's going to happen when all the votes are in.
Do you think that he is your major competitor in terms of trying to appeal to more moderate voters?
KLOBUCHAR: You know, I'd say there are three of us in there with the vice president, and what I can say about this to the people of this country is that I come with the receipt in two ways. One, I passed over 100 bills as the lead Democrat, since I've gotten to Washington, and shown I can get things done and get through the gridlock and build coalitions.
But, secondly, which I think is key to Democrats, I'm the one that's won in rural areas, suburban areas. I brought with me moderate Republicans and independents. And that's the kind of big tent we need if we're going to not just eke by a victory against Donald Trump but we're going to win big across the country.
[20:15:01]
TAPPER: You're in New Hampshire right now, but, obviously, you're going to have to be in Washington, D.C., tomorrow for the big vote on whether or not to remove President Trump from office on the two articles of impeachment or whether or not to acquit him.
How are you going to vote, and why?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I am voting for impeachment. I thought that the evidence was overwhelming of how he literally held up aid to a foreign country, a fledgling democracy, an ally that had been invaded by Russia all because he wanted dirt on a political opponent. And I am very, very dismayed about my colleagues, with the exception of two of them, that wouldn't even deal with having the witnesses because they're afraid of what they're going to say.
Now, they could have voted however they want on impeachment, but at least give the American people the truth. Don't hide it from them. And I'm telling you, Jake, it's not going to come out five years from now. It's going to come out five weeks from now or five days from now.
TAPPER: All right. Senator Amy Klobuchar, Democrat of Minnesota, up in New Hampshire -- thanks so much for joining us.
KLOBUCHAR: OK. And watch for us in New Hampshire, I have the endorsement of every newspaper here so far, and we are ready to roll.
TAPPER: All right. We'll keep an eye out. Thanks so much -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Jake.
We're getting some new information about what the president is going to be saying in his speech tonight. He's going to be offering, we're told, a rather stunning remark about relations with Iran, and the threat of war.
We have details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:20:21]
BLITZER: Looking at live pictures over from the south lawn of the White House. President and the first lady, they'll be getting ready to get into the presidential limousine, "The Beast" as it's called, to drive down Pennsylvania avenue up over to Capitol Hill for his State of the Union Address.
Jim Acosta is over at the White House watching all this unfold for us.
Jim, you're getting some more information about what the president said earlier in the day, even in advance of his State of the Union Address? ACOSTA: That's right, Wolf. And it ties to what we expect to hear
from the president tonight. The president is expected to tout his decision to take out the Iranian general, Qasem Soleimani. But earlier today, the president was revealing that the U.S. was close to military conflict with Iran.
At an off-the-record lunch with network news anchors, an event we should once again say CNN was barred from attending, the president said the U.S. was closer to war with Iran than the public actually knew. Now, you'll recall the president and his team struggled for days to justify the killing of Soleimani with Mr. Trump first claiming the Iranian general was about to blow up embassies, a claim that differed from what his own top generals were saying.
Now, the president, we're also told, explained to these anchors earlier today at this lunch that he plans on giving another speech tomorrow after his expected acquittal in the Senate impeachment trial. The White House officials all day long, they have been scrambling to tell reporters today that plans are not set for that speech just yet.
So once again, Wolf, the president has thrown his team a curveball just ahead of tonight's State of the Union speech -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. We'll wait for the president to leave the White House and drive up to Capitol Hill.
You know, Jake, it's an annual event, the State of the Union Address. The Constitution says the president, the president should deliver a State of the Union Address or at least something in writing.
But what do you think about what the president was saying earlier in the day that the U.S. was a lot closer to war with Iran than the public knew?
TAPPER: Well, it doesn't surprise me especially since we've found out that the attacks on the Iraqi base where U.S. service members were headquartered actually resulted in many more injuries, serious injuries, involving a traumatic brain injury and serious concussions than we were originally told, but it was in the interest of the United States at the time, I suppose, the Trump administration, to de- escalate any sort of tensions with Iran at the time.
So that was kind of soft pedaled. Perhaps, if you examine it and give the benefit of the doubt to the president, he was trying to de- escalate, although there are a lot of people, including the veterans of the foreign wars organization that were upset the president described those wounds, TBI, which is a very serious injury as just headaches, and they were asking the president for an apology, he did not get one.
BLITZER: Yes, there are about 50 or 60 American troops, they were suffering from those kinds of injuries.
TAPPER: It's very serious. I mean, it's one of the most serious wounds that happens to veterans these days, especially in this era where there are -- the way that helmets have developed, there are fewer deaths due to head injuries, but TBI is very, very serious. And to dismiss it as a headache offended a lot of people.
BLITZER: Certainly did, traumatic brain injury. Very serious indeed.
All right. We're standing by for the president to leave the White House, head up to Capitol Hill.
We're anxious to see this encounter he's about to have with the speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi up in the Capitol. She was one of those who led the impeachment fight in the House of Representatives.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:27:26]
COOPER: And welcome back. We are awaiting the president leaving the White House. You see the vehicle that his entourage about -- The Beast, as they call it, waiting to take off, expecting to speak about 32 minutes from now.
Here with the panel in New York.
A lot to talk about. We'll talk about, let's talk about the speech coming up and also how it's going to be.
David Axelrod, it's going to be a strange -- this is the first time -- I didn't realize he hadn't actually been face-to-face with Nancy Pelosi or spoken to her since October, I think.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I think there will be drama right from the top when he comes up. Will they exchange pleasantries, will they shake -- at least shake hands? I doubt it will be pleasantries. That will be something people will be watching.
But I think, you know, it will be interesting to see how he approaches this whole speech. Obviously, there's a great deal of tension with Congress, but if he is -- if he is wise, and we've seen the experts, I think he's going down this road, this is an enormous opportunity for an incumbent president even a president who's in the midst of an impeachment trial to talk to the nation and tout his accomplishments.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
AXELROD: And we know from polling that some of those accomplishments that he will claim are more popular even than he is. On the economy, he's got very high ratings.
One of the strange things about this Trump presidency is he's got a very high approval rating on the economy, 64 percent by Gallup today. And he's 15 points less popular than his performance on the economy. So, I think this is a chance to tout all of those thing things.
In these excerpts, he's using language of inclusion, so that would be reaching out and, there are -- you know, Trump off the teleprompter is often a more inclusive figure than Trump riffing and doing his improv at his rallies. And this is a big opportunity for him. It really is in many ways the official kickoff of his campaign. And I think that's what we're going to see.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: The scene is kind of stunning, though. Just think, seven weeks ago in the House chamber, this is a president who was impeached largely along party lines and tomorrow, the United States Senate is probably going to acquit him.
And today in Iowa, we discovered that his nemesis, Joe Biden, did not do so well in the Iowa caucuses.
So, it's kind of a remarkable moment for Donald Trump here. When we walks in that chamber, you know, usually there are people lining up on both sides of the aisle to shake his hand, all that. I guarantee you it's going to be Republicans.
COOPER: But there's also --
BORGER: Not Democrats.
COOPER: -- not that he pays attention to polls, as we all know, but there's a Gallup poll which shows him at 49 percent, which is very good for him.
BORGER: Very good. He's feeling pretty good walking into this. And the speech tonight is going to be about the great American comeback.
[20:30:00]
So he's feeling pretty good walking into this. And his speech tonight is going to be about the great American comeback. So he's going to try and be positive, not full of grievance, as we normally see him. Let's see.
COOPER: David Urban, that's --
DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I was going to say he's going to answer the question that Ronald Reagan famously asked in 1980. Are you better off today than you were before I started? And people are going to say, yes. Are you better off? Seven million, you know, new jobs, lowest unemployment rate in history, real wage growth, that the bottom rung of the economic ladder improving.
National security was taken out two of the worst, you know, worst nemesis of the United States in the world. He's going to have illustrated in the gallery tonight a widow whose husband was killed by an IED from Soleimani. And so you're going to have these, you know, all of these questions answered by this speech tonight.
And as Gloria points out, it's the kind of the kickoff to the campaign and it's -- I think he's feeling pretty good and I think the President does grasp the gravity of the State of the Union. And to David's point, does a fairly good job in these kinds of solemn settings. Less rally, more solemn and I think he'll use a lot more inclusion, less divisive. VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, this is the thing with -- the Trump era is characterized in the following way. The economy is going up, it's coming up, and society is coming apart. And that's the difference. I think that Democrats have a hard time listening to the speech. I encourage everybody, sit down, listen to the speech, because what you're going to hear is his roadmap to reelection. What he thinks he's going to be able to sell the American people on is mainly going to be economic stuff. And he will try to do some of the inclusive stuff as well.
I think for a skeptical Democratic audience, our tendency is to block him out all together. Some of the stuff he's going to be saying will be stuff that we haven't heard before in terms of like, you know, laying out the economic stuff and you are going to see him, I think, this is a teleprompter Trump, not Twitter Trump, not rally Trump, try to do some of the outreach.
But I don't think you get away from -- you know, half of the country is going to be looking at this guys saying, I'm afraid for our democracy, I'm afraid for immigrants, I'm afraid for the racial tone that's been set, I'm afraid for my kids. And so, he has an opportunity tonight to try to speak to some of those fears. We'll see if he does.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it's a great moment of opportunity for the President. The question is, can he? They're going to write a script in prompter for him that is a reelection message, it is to finish his term, but it's really about four more years as David said. Can he keep his head up and talk to the country? Is he going to look down, make eye contact with Adam Schiff and decide, I'm going to go off and have a moment? Because that's what people don't like about him.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yeah.
KING: So his strategy is pretty clear. If you look at the excerpts they've released so far, he talks about immigration, he talks about other things that play straight to his base. This speech is about base, drive them, keep them energized, turn them out and then try to move the margins a little bit.
Somebody says in the excerpt so far, we'll test the fact checks machines. He says in the excerpts released that we will always protect patients with preexisting conditions. This administration is in court trying to throw Obamacare off the books and they were unable to get a deal when Republicans controlled everything to fix that. Doesn't mean the President can't say, I have a proposal for it, but they're not advancing that right now. But, we'll go through the fact checks after the speech.
He has a remarkable moment right now. He's the strongest political place of his presidency heading into the reelection year. The Democrats, let's assume they figure this out, they get a nominee, we don't know who that is, matter who it is. That's why the President will talk about socialism tonight.
But he's going to play to his base and the margins is about improving his standard just a little bit in the suburbs, improving his standard just a little bit with African-Americans, just a little bit with Latinos, not by any big account. But if you do it just this much, maybe you keep Pennsylvania in play, a state David knows well. Maybe you keep North Carolina in play. You look at his map and what he wants to do base --
COOPER: I got to go to Dana Bash. Dana?
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Anderson. I just want to let you know that the senators are coming down. They're going to pass us momentarily, led by the president of the Senate, the Vice President of the United States.
Mr. Vice President, how you feeling? Is it awkward to be there with the President almost acquitted or maybe -- OK. We tried. How are you feeling, Senator?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Feeling good.
BASH: Senator Shelby, can you stop for one second?
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL): I can't stop.
BASH: OK. You can't stop. We're trying here. The senators, I will just tell you one of the reasons why they're not stopping is because it's tradition, to be fair. It is tradition for them to walk together. You can see that they're walking, a lot of them -- Senator Romney, -- a lot of them are walking with members of the Senate of the opposite party.
So, I can keep trying to get them to stop. Senator, would you like to stop? We can keep trying, but the reality is I've seen this movie before, and they like to come out and talk -- and walk with one another, again, especially across party lines. Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: All right, Dana, thanks very much.
RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is -- having made that walk 12 times, you don't stop. I mean, this is -- you're led by --
BORGER: Even for Dana? You would stop for Dana.
[20:35:01]
HENDERSON: Come on.
SANTORUM: No, no, no. You're walking with a colleague.
JONES: That's right.
SANTORUM: This is solemn occasion. This is not a time to ham it up to the media. You know, it's -- you know, you put your game face on when you do that.
COOPER: What are you anticipating? SANTORUM: I think the most interesting thing, I think, very little doubt that he's going to stick to the script. I have very little doubt about that. Here's my -- what I'm watching for is the Democrats. What are they going to do? How are they going to react to all this? Are they going to applaud him when they should applaud him?
If you look over there, you see the Vice President coming down, those are Democrats on the right side of the screen there. And as -- because Republicans don't line up on both sides. How are the Democrats going to react when they walk by? Are they going to shake his hand? I remember, I was there when Bill Clinton was being impeached. Republicans greeted him, shook his hand. I mean, it was very cordial. That was --
COOPER: There's the President and First Lady leaving the White House right now.
SANTORUM: It was, you know, again, you have a role to play. You have a partisan role to play. But you're also -- you're in the House Chamber. You're a House member. You act accordingly. And you know, that didn't happen on one occasion if we famously recall.
But he was -- by members, you know, Joe paid a price for that. That was not a good --
COOPER: Joe Wilson.
BORGER: Yes.
SANTORUM: Yes, Joe Wilson, sorry. But I -- to me, it's going to see how the Democrats react in this chamber. It could be a bad moment for them if they don't do well.
HENDERSON: And so many have said they didn't want to come, right? I think you'll see Ayanna Pressley wasn't coming, he had some calls on radio. I think Joe Madison was saying that Democrats shouldn't show up for this. I don't think, you know, only two people haven't -- or saying they aren't going to show up.
But I do think -- I mean, to John's point, the way he wants to attract people around the margin, African-Americans, Latinos, obviously, and suburban white women, right, by seeming to reach out to those voting blocs, sort of indirect appeals. There's a line where he talks about building the most prosperous and inclusive society.
He mentions being inclusive several times. And I think that is when he's trying to talk to those suburban college-educated white voters that Democrats feel like they have a good shot at and the Democrats -- the Republican, obviously, wants to keep in, in their corner.
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I mean, I think he's going to try.
HENDERSON: Yes.
GRANHOLM: But these groups are -- have seen him at the rallies every other week or every week saying something totally different. So color me a little skeptical about this effort to try to make him appear to be this grand inclusive leader when everything he has done, and everything they've heard outside of this format, has been the opposite.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I want to just on your point, David, about, you know, the classic Reagan question, are you better off than you were four years ago? I think that this race for President is going to be a battle between two questions, that's the first question. The second is, can we really do this for four more years? Can we wake up to the tweets and the tantrums and all of that?
And so, we're going to see the Trump tonight who wants the question to be the one you pose. The person that you see at those rallies are the ones that give discomfort to those folks he wants to get around the margin.
BORGER: You know, in the chamber tonight, there's reporting that the House managers are going to sit together. So Adam Schiff not being his favorite person, obviously, if the President makes eye contact with him, will he be able to not say something? I don't know the answer --
SANTORUM: So that raises the question, why. I mean, why would they sit together? I mean, it's obviously they're trying to get a rise out of him. I mean, it's -- again, look inside what's really going on and what game they're trying to play. They're trying to --
BORGER: And Nancy Pelosi is behind him, not a best friend, crazy Nancy Pelosi.
SANTORUM: They think they could get a rise out of the President. We'll see if they can. But there's -- believe it or not, there's policy --
URBAN: Yes. But I would just point out, the President is the riser in chief. He gives the rise. He is much more likely to give than to take, right? I mean, he punches. He's a counter-puncher. He'll -- I would say he's a lot less easier to rattle than you think. And by looking at Adam Schiff, he's not going to go off.
JONES: You know, across the west, what you have is this rise of populism, and there's different forms of populism. We saw in Iowa, you know, just that liberal progressive populism on the rise, kind of people were mad at the economic elites, mad at the billionaire class, et cetera.
What you're going to see now today from Trump is his most recent exploitation on his form of right-wing populism. And there are two things he's going to do, I guarantee you. One is, he has to go after the liberal elites. And what he's going to try and do is put "socialism on trial." He's going to say these liberal elites are socialists and he's going to go after them. But the other thing -- and we're used to that. We expect that.
But the other thing is, there's a big anti-immigrant strand in this right-wing populism across the west. The question he has to ask -- answer tonight, is he going to continue to lean into that? Is he going to keep giving red meat to his base and stoking the anti-immigrant sentiment? That is the most dangerous thing that he does.
[20:40:00]
AXELROD: Well, you can see many the excerpts that he is going --
(CROSSTALK)
JONES: And I think that that then tends to undermine and undercut all the rest of it.
AXELROD: But he's trying to strike a balance between, as John said, rallying the base and some overtures to people on the margins.
URBAN: He's going to talk about prescription drug prices, driving down drug costs, opioid addiction, driving that -- I mean, lots of things. In your point, it's suburban moms, right, safety. Can you go to bed at night being -- are you more safe when you go to bed at night? All that stuff to your terrorism.
SANTORUM: Look, you say goes after anti-immigrant. It's illegal immigrants. And you know, the Democratic Party used to be not from the party of illegal immigrants. And as recently as Bill Clinton who was very strongly anti-illegal immigration, that's changed. And so I don't see anybody calling Bill Clinton a, you know, anti-immigration.
JONES: Well, there's a question of tone and I think there's --
SANTORUM: I agree with the tone, but the substance --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: I worked for an administration, Rick, that came under fire for --
SANTORUM: For deporting more than Trump.
AXELROD: -- deporting a lot of immigrants who are guilty of criminal offenses.
JONES: Needless to say one more thing, again, I think a lot of Democrats are going to have a hard time just even listening. That's one -- I mean, and I think it's important that we listen because, again, this is a roadmap to his reelection.
COOPER: There you see Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner, obviously.
JONES: Yes, good stuff. So, you know, I actually had to work with those guys on some stuff. And I'm going to tell you, I expect to hear some of that stuff.
GRANHOLM: The criminal justice.
JONES: The criminal justice. Some of the stuff they're going to lay out, I assume on criminal justice, on family leave, which is Ivanka's thing.
COOPER: Does this speech matter? I mean, you know, obviously, in news, we pay a lot of attention to it every year. But, I mean, does it move the needle? Does it -- what is the point?
KING: Of course, it matters. Look, we live in a highly polarized time that allowed the President's numbers lock in. But we have seen him improve somewhat, which is worth watching. Is he going to keep improving? We don't know. But of course, it matters.
I remember when I covered the Clinton White House, he used to speak for an hour and a half sometimes and we would always say, you know, oh, he lost them. And then you would look the next day and the T.V. ratings would be pretty good, sometimes great. The American people, you know, by 56 percent or more would say they like this and they like that.
You know, I often say, you know, just beware of people in Washington. I don't mean this as an insult, America is out there. They like to watch their president. Even to Van's point, people who don't like him will watch. But the people who do like him, it's just -- it's an enormous opportunity to speak to the country.
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: The half life, John, is short. I think the most important --
COOPER: The half life of the state.
HENDERSON: And also --
AXELROD: He should get a bump. But the most important thing is the thing that Van mentioned, which is I think you're going to see a pretty clear roadmap about what his argument is for reelection.
JONES: That's the opening argument.
HENDERSON: And how long can he stick to that road, right? He is one of the presidents that like to go out on the road in the way that President Obama did after the State of the Union and go to different states. But how long can he use this roadmap?
URBAN: Let's not forget tomorrow for -- he's going to be acquitted by the Senate and give yet another speech. So the half life is about half --
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: I'm going to disagree a little bit on that.
BORGER: Because that speech may be full of grievance. I mean, after he -- that may be the time that Donald Trump --
URBAN: The tone will be a lot different.
BORGER: -- really has a different tone because he's been impeached by the House and acquitted by the Senate after a difficult trial. And I think he ought to expect a lot of fireworks on that one, not so much tonight.
SANTORUM: I think the half life -- look, for Donald Trump, this is a more important speech than it is for really anybody else. You know, everybody know Barack Obama would get up and give a great speech and -- because he did it all the time, and Bill Clinton did it all the time. George W. Bush didn't do great speeches but you knew what you were going to get.
The perpetual criticism of Donald Trump being unhinged and lying and doing all these things, to have him stand up in this setting, deliver a speech, sound reasonable, sound articulate, sound like he's got a, you know, a plan and the country is not crashing and burning, but that's a much bigger deal for him --
AXELROD: It is.
SANTORUM: -- that it is for everybody else --
AXELROD: The question is in November, which is a long time from now, with all the intervening events, what will it mean? I'm not sure that much, but we will learn a lot tonight about how he's thinking about reelection.
SANTORUM: And here's what I would say is that a lot of people listen to the media and listen to the opposition and just, he is a liar, unhinged, incompetent, whatever, all the adjectives. And yet they have a chance to see him in this setting say, yes, he may be all those things but, you know, maybe when he's doing business, he actually is a pretty reasonable guy.
BORGER: Well, it's hard to forget Twitter Trump, though, because you see it every single day. And so -- and you've been critical of --
SANTORUM: I agree.
BORGER: -- of Twitter Trump.
SANTORUM: The point is, there is -- he can make the case there's another side of me. That maybe I, you know, maybe I'm not this all the time.
BORGER: Or you can watch the speech and say somebody wrote this for him. So, you know, but --
SANTORUM: He delivered it.
BORGER: He delivered it, that's right. That's right. So there are --
SANTORUM: He said it.
BORGER: So there are two different personalities, the one who's at the rallies.
HENDERSON: Right. [20:45:01]
BORGER: The one who tweets.
SANTORUM: But it's better than --
BORGER: And the one who's standing in the chamber.
SANTORUM: -- people think there's only one personality.
KING: We don't know who the other guy is going to nominate yet. But it's a chance for the President -- to your point, it's not in the speech, it's implicit. If you talk to his campaign advisers, they're very open about it. You may not like parts of me.
URBAN: Right.
KING: You know, suburban women may not like my tweets. The people of color may not like my tone toward immigrants. You know, you may not think I have a history in your community, why am I reaching out for you now. But he's -- to make a point here, there are things about me you may not like. But unemployment is down in Pennsylvania, unemployment is down in Wisconsin.
(CROSSTALK)
URBAN: And you're safer than you were before.
JONES: John, I think that this is the thing. I still talk to Democrats and say, I just don't understand. I'm so confused. How can anybody support this guy or anybody like this guy? I think what he's done, he's created this archetype of himself as the rebel who get things done.
And so the rebel stuff, the Twitter stuff, which we all hate, actually sets him up say but I get things done. And you're going to hear tonight him trying to prove the point that I'm getting stuff done for you. You may not like me, but I'm a rebel getting things done. And we sound like scolds when we say it, but you should do it a different way. And that's what you're going to see tonight.
SANTORUM: I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: I'm one of the ones who I find it hard to even be here, because I see what he does on a daily basis. And so maybe he gets things done. But when he gets things done, like taking away health care from people with preexisting conditions, I don't like that thing that he's getting done. I don't like separating families at the border. I don't like the way he has caused people in America to feel unsafe. Not to feel safe, but to feel unsafe, like their government is against them.
JONES: Yes.
GRANHOLM: Those things, I can't forgive. So it is hard for me, it will be hard for me to watch.
JONES: Yes.
SANTORUM: You know, there's one point I'm (INAUDIBLE), you and John both mentioned it. When President Trump ran, he said I would never sign a health care bill that didn't have protection for preexisting condition. I worked on the health care bill with the President, with Republicans. And I can tell you for the administration, every time we had this -- I'm not signing the bill, I'm not going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
GRANHOLM: But, of course, the same court trying to undo it, so --
SANTORUM: His import (ph) is trying to throw out Obamacare but that doesn't --
GRANHOLM: Yes, then that includes that.
KING: They ran it for two years. They ran it for two years.
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: It doesn't mean he's against it, with provisions.
GRANHOLM: It's really hard for you to make that argument with --
SANTORUM: No, it's not.
GRANHOLM: I mean, I'm sure it's not hard for you personally to do it. It's hard for people to hear it knowing the hypocritical actions that he's taken.
JONES: Agree.
SANTORUM: I don't think they're hypocritical. Just because one, a couple parts of the bill are good doesn't mean you shouldn't throw out the bill and replace it with something that's better.
AXELROD: Well, they tried.
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: It was a good failure. I agree with that, epic.
GRANHOLM: Yes.
AXELROD: I wonder how much discussion there was in the speaker's office and at the White House about how to approach this moment when they encounter each other for the first time since October.
BORGER: The Speaker?
AXELROD: Yes.
BORGER: Well, let's see if she does her clap this year as she did last year.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: We should also just point out that they've been reading names of the escort committee for the President. Coming up next, they're going to be introducing, I think Karen Pence, the Vice President's wife, who will enter. And then after that, it will be the sergeant of arms announces the diplomatic corps, various ambassadors, the First Lady, ultimately the President.
GRANHOLM: Can I just say, too, one of the great things that's going to happen tonight is that the new governor of Michigan is going to give the response at the high school that her daughters went to, that my kids went to. So I'm excited to see her, because I thing she's a no- nonsense leader who does get things done.
COOPER: David?
URBAN: I'd just like to add also, you know, this is a chance this President, I think, to kind of ramble through this list of accomplishments and kind of put it against the backdrop of you've seen us go on today against the backdrop of this, you know, dumpster fire of a primary in Iowa and say, we've done all these great things and you guys can't even add, right? I think that's another kind of juxtaposition.
BORGER: Or you want to impeach me.
GRANHOLM: I have no doubt that --
COOPER: Van, I just want -- I mean, (INAUDIBLE) he's going to be acquitted tomorrow. I mean --
AXELROD: That would be an elevated thing to add to the discussion.
URBAN: I would not -- that may be in here someplace.
SANTORUM: I wouldn't be surprised.
GRANHOLM: I wouldn't be surprised, either.
BORGER: But on Twitter, he's happy to say, you know, I've done all these things and you want to impeach me. We have the best economy, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know if he's going to mention that tonight.
URBAN: No, I don't think that happens tonight. I think there may be a reference to the economy.
GRANHOLM: The economy, for sure.
URBAN: Comparing the -- you know, I've been able to do all this and you guys can't even run a caucus.
COOPER: But David, all -- I mean, all along you've been saying you want to hear more from the President running on --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Right.
SANTORUM: Absolutely.
URBAN: I wish he tweeted every day. I've got page upon page of tweets per item (ph), right? I wish they'd go out.
JONES: But you know, I think that, you know, to Governor Granholm's point about the pain in the country and the way that people feel hurt and the way that people feel afraid, and especially people from immigrant communities, I know you make a big distinction between, you know, undocumented, not undocumented.
[20:50:01]
If you're a Latino in this country or a Latina, that distinction begins to break down. You're seeing people in Walmarts and stuff being attacked and mistreated. There is a poisonous atmosphere in the country and a lot of his rhetoric is added to that.
And I think that Republicans would do better if they would, I think, acknowledge a little bit more, that these fine policy distinctions don't play out so well in communities and that the communities want to think their president is their president, too.
I think this is probably one of the times in American history that I'm aware of where you do have people who really say that is just your president. This is your president, not my president because I don't feel the love.
And tonight when he makes these overtures, he's going uphill against his Twitter performance and everything else, and I think Republicans need to recognize it's not just liberals and Democrats are mad enough, sad and crazy and just hate him, that there is a record here that is a painful record that he has not really atoned for or spoken to.
COOPER: Do you think he can pick up votes among suburban women? I mean, you know, poll after poll shows he's not doing well there. If he does, that would have a big impact, potentially, on his reelection.
SANTORUM: Look, that's going to come down to who the nominee in the Democratic Party. I mean, there are going to be opportunities, you know, looking at the list here of the Democrats. Every one of them creates an opportunity for Trump with some different voter group and, you know, we'll wait and see, see who they have.
But I believe the President thinks that he can actually do well, better in the community. He talks about it all the time. He's always talked about the unemployment rate and the black community has talked about it, and the Hispanic community. I mean, he does lots -- he's doing more and more events with people of color focusing all on objective accomplishments, which is the economy's better, wages are up.
URBAN: Opportunity zone. SANTORUM: He's got public policy, all economic, I agree with you, and also that the, you know, that the --
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: But the vast majority of this is economic. And on suburban women, he's got paid family leave, which is something that, you know, Barack Obama couldn't get accomplished. He got that accomplished for federal workers as a start, but he's also pushing hard on -- and I know he will mention it in the State of the Union, he'll talk about --
AXELROD: These policy things are important. They will -- some of them will be challenged, but it's really his behavior that has created a huge problem for him among --
SANTORUM: We all agree on that.
AXELROD: And that's why, you know, I know you say this is important for them to see that he can eat with a fork and knife here and behave himself.
SANTORUM: Yes.
AXELROD: But at the end of the day, you know, he'll go out probably in a very short order and he'll have one of those improvisational rallies and the boulder will come running down the hill again. And I think that's a big obstacle.
SANTORUM: The difference -- here's what I say. The difference to that is the nation is watching here. They're not listening to every tweet, to every rally, everything, but he has an opportunity to really focus.
AXELROD: This is an opportunity.
BORGER: I just think this is a little surreal here, you know, just that Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence are not really talking to each other.
HENDERSON: Not at all. They're not even looking at each other.
BORGER: Not even looking at each other. In a chamber that impeached the President, seven --
SANTORUM: I think that's real. I just think it's real.
BORGER: It is real.
SANTORUM: I actually give him sort of credit for not trying to fake it.
BORGER: Not a lot of conversation there.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Let's check in with Wolf and Jake.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right. The Chief Justice of the United States, John Roberts, has just been introduced. There you see him walking in. Three other justices, Jake, are coming in, Elena Kagan, Neil Gorsuch and Brett Kavanaugh.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: That's right. Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, two Trump appointees. And then, of course, Chief Justice Roberts who just -- well, I guess he hasn't finished yet. He will almost be finished with his job supervising the impeachment trial of President Trump in the Senate. That, we're expecting will finish tomorrow.
There is a weird subtext of impeachment going on here in the sense that there are still some senators that we see there who have not announced how they're going to vote tomorrow. And we see a number of the players in the impeachment trial, both members of the House and the Senate.
BLITZER: Yes. That's -- and, Dana, I just want -- Dana is up on Capitol Hill. Seems like there's a significant section over there on the floor of women in white. Tell us about that.
BASH: It's really fascinating. You can see them, of course, the woman in the Speaker's chair, the Speaker of the House is in white as well. This is a coordinated moment for the women, a historic number of women in this Congress, to wear white to mark the 100th anniversary of women getting the right to vote, white women getting the right to vote, that is.
You see there, right there, all those women standing together in solidarity to mark it. And it is a moment -- it will be a moment in any situation, but it is especially so in the House of Representatives where they have the first female speaker presiding over this State of the Union.
[20:55:04]
And, of course, what will be likely a, again, another awkward moment when the President of the United States walks up and says hello to her after the two of them haven't even spoken in about four months.
BLITZER: That could be awkward, too. Manu Raju, is up on Capitol Hill. You're there, Manu, in the chamber. What do you see?
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Right now, I'm looking right at the House impeachment managers, themselves, who are sitting towards the front of the chamber. Undoubtedly, the President is going to make contact with them at some point throughout the proceedings.
And I've been watching the members interact so far. While there are some members reaching across the aisle and talking to some of their fellow colleagues across the aisle, for the most part Republicans and Democrats keeping to themselves amid this very acrimonious impeachment fight that has absolutely divided both chambers.
And a number of Democratic women, Wolf, had weighed whether or not to actually skip tonight's State of the Union. One Democratic woman, Gwen Moore, told me it would be extremely difficult for her to come. She said, she just thought about it but ultimately decided to come. But at least two have decided to skip, including Ayanna Pressley and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, two freshmen members.
But it just shows you, Wolf, how tense this moment is. Nancy Pelosi, I'm told, urged her members to be dignified in their response in the face of potential taunting from this President.
BLITZER: Kate Bennett is with us as well. Kate, the First Lady, Melania Trump, she's about to come in. Tell us, first of all, about the guests that she's bringing.
KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Right. So these are guests, sort of a preview of what the topics are going to be tonight. The comeback is the theme that the White House is saying. So there are two gentlemen who have sort of turned their lives around, former veterans working in opportunity zones, which was part of the USMCA package.
There's a young 2-year-old girl who was one of the youngest premature babies ever born and been able to survive. She's supposed to be there with her mother. Immigration is going to play a part. There's a brother of a victim of a murderer who was an illegal immigrant. And, you know, that's going to be, again, probably part of the President's speech tonight.
There's the deputy U.S. chief of Border Patrol, a gentleman who surveys the Texas/Mexico border. Certainly, again, it's a reflection, but we're not really seeing a lot of these Be Best people we saw a couple last year.
Remember the 11-year-old boy, Joshua Trump, from Delaware who fell asleep in his seat, if you remember that sort of cute moment. He was part of the anti-bullying thing that Melania Trump does with Be Best. There was another woman who was pregnant and an opioid abuser, had a baby and that's another one of Melania Trump's causes.
So, we're not really seeing a lot of her causes reflected tonight in the guests. This is basically part of what the President is going to discuss tonight. And also, there's a military widow we mentioned before earlier and her son, he was 1 year old.
BLITZER: Here she comes.
TAPPER: Here's the First Lady right here.
BENNETT: First Lady. So the First Lady is coming down here, Tiffany Trump and then Lara Trump and Jared Kushner, so she's surrounded by the Trump family. I will say this is the first time the First Lady traveled from the White House to the Capitol with the President in the same vehicle. They've not done that the past years. And Rush Limbaugh is here tonight.
BLITZER: Special guest of the President who, unfortunately, is suffering from serious lung cancer right now. You know, Jake, we're also about to see the President's cabinet introduce, members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. TAPPER: Right. We should also note that the President told news anchors earlier today, CNN was not allowed to participate in this for the first time in modern history, told CNN -- told news anchors, and we have learned from the reporting that he intends to give Rush Limbaugh an honor, I believe the Presidential Medal of Freedom. Obviously, Rush Limbaugh suffering from serious cancer, as you noted.
BLITZER: Yes.
KATHLEEN JOYCE, ASSISTANT SERGEANT AT ARMS: Madam Speaker, the President's cabinet.
TAPPER: And as I mentioned, Wolf, there's this odd and surreal subtext of the impeachment and the impeachment trial going on. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, obviously, playing a role --
BLITZER: They come in order of the seniority of the -- the Secretary of State, the most -- one of the first cabinet positions ever created, Secretary of the Treasury Mnuchin coming in second. So it's an order of the cabinet as it was formed.
TAPPER: As Defense Secretary Esper, we expect the President will talk about the strike on Qasem Soleimani as well this evening, as one of his foreign policy victories. He said earlier today, we're told at this lunch, that Iran and the United States were much closer to war than had been previously thought.
There's Ben Carson, the Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor, also the wife of the Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who has done about as good a job as the President could want in terms of keeping him from being removed from office.
BLITZER: That's Betsy DeVos, the Education Secretary, walking in as well. And momentarily, Jake, we're going to hear those famous words, Madam Speaker, the President of the United States. Paul Irving, the House Sergeant of Arms, will be introducing.
