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CNN Live Event/Special
South Carolina Debate Like A Cockfight; Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D- MN), Presidential Candidate, Is Interviewed About The Debate Tonight In South Carolina; Interview With Pete Buttigieg (D), Presidential Candidate; Interview With Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), Presidential Candidate; Rivals Take Aim At Bernie Sanders' Electability At South Carolina Debate; Sanders Nomination Means A Catastrophe Later? Aired 10-11p ET
Aired February 25, 2020 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[22:02:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Welcome to a special late- night edition of 360. The final Democratic debate before the South Carolina primary and Super Tuesday is now history. And it goes into the books as both the potentially decisive moment of the race for many voters as well as something of a brawl or the Michigas (Ph).
Bernie Sanders taking big hits firing back. Michael Bloomberg confronted about his past. We saw Joe Biden who has been ow key in past debates practically erupts at points tonight. We saw Amy Klobuchar, Elizabeth Warren and Pete Buttigieg trying to stand aside from at least some of the political combat while still taking a few swings of their own.
This was also a debate that spanned a lot of issues that voters care deeply and some that have never been raised in the debate stage before. Everything from coronavirus to that naked cowboy in New York Times Square who wasn't really naked, but anyway, it's not worth going into.
CNN's Dana Bash and Erin Burnett are at the debate site for us. Joining us here, Nia-Malika Henderson, David Axelrod, Gloria Borger, Van Jones, former candidate Andrew Yang, also Jess McIntosh, and Abdul El-Sayed, who, in addition to being a CNN political commentator has also endorsed Bernie Sanders.
Let's go right now to Erin Burnett and Dana. Well, actually, we'll stick here with the panel. Let's just get some quick take from everybody. Andrew Yang, I've got to start with you. You're most recently the one on the debate stage, what do you make of tonight?
ANDREW YANG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I certainly think the tone was harsh and argumentative throughout the night which made for not very a defining debate on many levels. But I thought it was a great night for Joe Biden. I feel like he has been stronger since he got to South Carolina. He very confidently predicted a win.
I think he may win South Carolina this weekend. Clyburn's endorsement coming tomorrow will be a big difference maker. And if Joe does win South Carolina then we could be looking at a much more competitive race.
COOPER: David Axelrod?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I agree that Biden had a good night there. He does lapse into this kind of get off my lawn sort of demeanor at times and whining about the timing. But he was energetic which is sometimes been a problem. He was strong and emphatic. And I think he needed to be to hold serve in South Carolina.
He is in first place. Sanders is sneaking up on him. But Bernie Sanders is the front runner. He's the first time that we've seen him in that -- at that center lectern. And by and large I think that he handled the attacks pretty well. But for the question about socialism and socialist regime. You started this with a question you asked on 60 Minutes.
COOPER: I hardly started it.
AXELROD: You started it, Anderson. But I mean, he has this weird, but he kind of lapsed into this strange sort of 60s, 70s, 80s kind of back, you know, back thing in his brain about U.S. intervention in that era and it sounded like he was attacking the U.S. and defending the socialist regimes.
[22:04:57]
I think that's precisely the kind of answer that gives people concern about what he would do as the nominee of the party.
COOPER: Gloria?
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I think the whole debate was set up for some bad Bloomberg jokes that were kind of enters first throughout. And I think Bloomberg was not as bad as he was the first time. So I think he kind of helped himself a touch. Not tremendously.
I agree that Biden was much better and that Bernie Sanders can't answer these questions about Castro and foreign policy. I think however, the candidates generally were not well served by the debate itself.
I think that there were points that unfortunately the moderators seem to lose control of the debate. And any sort of moments that could have had for decent statement and somebody responding to a statement that was made about them just kind of erupted into free for all.
COOPER: There were times when there were two people, two candidates talking.
BORGER: Yes.
COOPER: Repeatedly at the same time.
BORGER: Exactly. And of course, every candidate there was thinking uh- oh, I've got to do well here because this could be it for me.
AXELROD: Yes.
BORGER: Except for Bernie maybe. So, you know what the stakes were. So, it's difficult to be a moderator in this case obviously. But you needed to control it.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes.
BORGER: And it was out of control. And as a viewer I was thinking --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You can't hear when people are talking over each other.
BORGER: You just can't.
COOPER: Nia?
HENDERSON: Yes. I though Warren picked up where she left off last go round in pummeling Bloomberg over and over again. Some people may think -- may think she went too far with really going into detail about some of the allegations that have been lodged against Bloomberg in terms of his treatment of pregnant women.
COOPER: Which he denies.
HENDERSON: Which he denies, and he methodically denied that here tonight. So that was interesting. I think in some ways she's going after progressive voters who really, really, really can't stand Bloomberg and she wants to, you know, be the foil to Bloomberg on stage so she continues with that.
I also thought it was interesting her going after a Sanders in way we hadn't seen before. She said on stage --
JESS MCINTOSH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
AXELROD: Ever.
BORGER: Yes.
HENDERSON: Yes, that's right. She said on stage that she agrees with Sanders on many things. But she thinks she would make a better president than Bernie Sanders. And the reason she thinks she would make a better president is because she is detail oriented. She has dug in on particular issues and gotten stuff done.
So, I think that's a preview to what we'll see in terms of Warren going after Sanders. Because she knows that her path to the nomination, her path to victory in any of these states has to Sanders and that progressive base that he has.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Biden -- timing is everything in politics. Biden found his footing a little bit. You could feel he was comfortable there. He was -- he was -- he did some stuff that -- you know, you could see as you're saying, Andrew, that he's probably on his path way to victory in South Carolina. He knows it. He did really well.
You know, Bloomberg made a lot of bad jokes.
BORGER: Sure, he did.
JONES: But he was not a bad joke. Last week he was the joke. OK? This time he just made a bunch of corny jokes. So, I think that had he blown himself up --
YANG: Progress.
JONES: Progress. Progress. Had he blown himself up badly this week as he did last week then I think we would be talking about him getting out of the race. I think Bloomberg hangs on to the bottom of the ladder and stays in the race.
I was disappointed with Bernie's answer on the socialism question. He had to know that was coming. There's no reason to do a big retrospective and stall just scream fest about authoritarian regimes from the 70s.
It was an opportunity for Bernie to clarify to the American people that when he says Democratic socialism that's the point. It's not that stuff from Cuba. It's not that stuff from Soviet Union. It's the stuff that you see in Northern Europe that's working well for normal people and they vote all the time.
He failed to do that. It's unbelievable that he failed to do it. It's what a big talk from his party and to hear from him and he did not do it tonight.
COOPER: I also think, and Abdul, let me ask you this because you're a supporter of Sanders. He has a refrain that I think is actually one that he I thought he was going to use tonight. He used it in the interview that I did with him where he says, you know what, Donald Trump is a socialist. He is a socialist, a corporate socialist who got $800, you know, million in tax breaks when he was a private citizen. And wants to give it to corporations.
I want to, you know, I want to give those breaks to the working class and the middle class. He didn't -- I don't -- from what -- I've missed part of it so maybe he said it. But to me that's an effective argument that he makes.
ABDUL EL-SAYED, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. And I agree with that. I want to step back for a second. If you're a viewer and you're just getting to this race, which let's not forget most viewers are. You are deeply poorly served by this debate. It got super in the process. There are a lot of conversations. I mean, there is fixation on the filibuster. And it's a really important issue. But a lot of folks don't understand how the filibuster works.
So, I think folks were just not well served by this debate. The format, the questions. We didn't get into coronavirus which is leading all the headlines until the last buck of the debate. On the question about Bernie, I think he hit his points about what Democratic socialism means to him. But I do agree that this is a line of attack that's going to continue to come.
[22:10:03]
I think when you think about where we stand in the conversation that we're having as a country about who we want to be president of the United States, I just don't know how much fear mongering about this issue is actually going to matter when you're talking to voters who are facing the fact that they don't have access to good healthcare.
They're worrying about whether or not this economy is just fundamentally left them behind and they are going to be able to have access to it or even their kids will have access to it.
And so, I just think it's easy for us to focus on this one issue because it's the issue that's been in the headlines. I just don't know that it resonates as much as we think it does.
COOPER: Jess, I want you to comment on that because to me, it's interesting that this has not been in the headlines as much as certainly Donald Trump is going to make it be in the headlines. Which is why I think it's wise that it's brought up now to either he addresses it or not. I mean, do you think this is an issue that is going to continue?
MCINTOSH: Yes. I mean, I think Donald Trump is going to go hard negative on whoever the nominee is that will obviously be a line of attack that he uses on Sanders. It will be -- it will be a similar line of attack that he uses on any of the Democratic nominee.
So, I don't know exactly how much of a Sanders problem this is or, you know, maybe the Republicans are making this word a meaningless one anyway by calling every Democrat one.
I think it was a difficult and chaotic and frustrating debate which is about where we are in terms of the Democratic primary process to begin with. So, if you're coming in it was a decent entry point to the way the content is going at this point. I think --
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You think CBS intentionally was modeling --
(CROSSTALK)
MCINTOSH: It was -- yes, they were trying to mimic the actual feeling of being one of us and they did a brilliant job.
EL-SAYED: It was also co-hosted by Twitter so this does feel a lot like twitter.
MCINTOSH: You know what, that makes perfect sense. OK. You know, if Mike Bloomberg had spent as much time work shopping in answers on stop and frisk and the offensive things, he said to women instead of the naked cowboy joke. He could have -- he could have maybe redeemed himself a little bit. I didn't see -- I mean, I didn't see him being the same punch line that he was last time. But I didn't see him didn't himself any favors or winning back any votes that way.
BORGER: Well, he wasn't an embarrassment to himself the way he was the last time.
MCINTOSH Yes. He was a different kind of embarrassment.
BORGER: It was different.
AXELROD: No, just a warmed evaluation by the way.
BORGER: The thing that struck me, and particularly on the answers on Cuba and digging himself a deeper hole. Is that Bernie Sanders is just this bulldozer who just --
(CROSSTALK)
YANG: He's like a fortress.
BORGER: A fortress.
YANG: Like Mount Bernie.
BORGER: Mount Bernie. You keep going at him --
(CROSSTALK)
YANG: No one can scare me.
BORGER: -- and you can ask him and he will never change his position.
YANG: Look, I'm permeable.
BORGER: Keep coming at me because those are good. Those are good. You just --
(CROSSTALK)
YANG: I've been there in that stage. And he has like a force field.
BORGER: Right.
YANG: And everything you say to him it's like let me be clear. I'm going to talk about what I'm going to talk about.
AXELROD: Yes.
BORGER: Right.
YANG: It's going to have some --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: But that was what was -- YANG: (INAUDIBLE) to harass but is not really going to be what you ask me about. I'll go into a Bernieism (ph). So then afterwards you're like, OK, what just happened there.
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: No, no, no. That was what --
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: So, there's no way -- there's no way to get off -- to get him off of it. So, it's when the question about Cuba.
AXELROD: Right.
BORGER: He will continue to give that answer that he gave to you. That he'll give it again tonight. And then dig himself a deeper hole and did it in our town hall itself.
COOPER: But it is interesting that people are focusing on what he said about Castro in the 1980s. But Michael Bloomberg a couple of weeks ago said that the dictator of China is not a dictator.
BORGER: Right.
COOPER: And nobody seems to have --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Well, Bernie picked up on that.
COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: But look, you know, Jess is right the Republicans and Donald Trump are going to make the same case against any Democratic candidate. But it's easier to make when that Democratic candidate embraces the title of socialist and doesn't refute it.
BORGER: Right.
AXELROD: And the truth of the matter is, Bernie Sanders is not a socialist. I mean if you look it up in the dictionary, he's not calling for, you know, the society own the means of production and all of that stuff.
And why he is so reluctant to make that point and why is he -- why he that he is like a fortress, Andrew. But not on that question tonight. On question that he looked unmoored. And while it shouldn't necessarily be the most important question, they will make it the most important question until he makes it a less important question by straightening the whole thing out.
The flip side of that is he's also a guy who deeply believes in things. He speaks inspirationally. His close tonight reflected that.
COOPER: Yes. AXELROD: When he talked about what he thinks America should be. And the goals we should set ourselves to that speak to the lives of everyday people. And anyone who underestimates the power of that is missing something.
EL-SAYED: Let's be clear though. I mean, he comes into this debate as the front runner in the race.
YANG: Yes.
EL-SAYED: And the question of what this debate did to this race, I think it's clear all -- to your point that the fact that Warren decided to attack him does signal something about her recognizing that her path way, if she has one, has to run through his lane and that she has to try and take some of those votes away.
[22:15:09]
I don't know that this debate did much to knock him off that front runner status.
HENDERSON: He's so far down the track at this point in terms of collecting delegates in terms of looking strong for Super Tuesday. Looking strong a bit in South Carolina too. I do think Biden came in strong with South Carolina. He's going to connect with voters who probably get this Clyburn endorsement as well.
He said in his closing statement that he wanted to nominate a black woman to the Supreme Court. That's certainly going to resonate with those black women in South Carolina who are going to make up the majority of black voters.
But, yes. I mean, I think a lot of people will look at this, you know, these last many months they've been sort of looking past Sanders. He did have a heart attack. Was that going to weaken him. It didn't. It seemed to make him stronger in fact. And so, I think for somebody like warren it's probably too late to kind of cut into this momentum.
COOPER: To a point Abdul made I just want to play some of the sound of Warren trying to draw differences as they say with Senator Sanders.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Bernie and I agree on a lot of things but I think I would make a better president than Bernie. And the reason for that is that getting a progressive agenda enacted is going to be really hard. And it's going to take someone who digs into the details to make it happen.
Bernie and I both wanted to help reign in Wall Street. In 2008, we both got our chance. But I dug in, I fought the big banks, I built the coalitions and I won.
Bernie and I both want to see universal healthcare. But Bernie's s plan doesn't explain how to get there. He doesn't show how we're going to get enough allies into it and doesn't show enough about how we're going to pay for it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
WARREN: I dug in. I did the work and then Bernie's team trashed me for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Well, look, I think it was a number of dynamics in that -- I mean, that was a brilliant point I think it land, I think probably for every woman in the world their heads were nodding. Like, Bernie talks and I do. The guy is going to yell. I get it done. And so, I think that she was, she really struck something really powerful there. She never followed up.
YANG: Never.
JONES: Then she spent the rest of the debate beating up on Bloomberg trying to do the same thing she did last week, and I don't know if that helped her very much. But I do think that one thing happened, there was a lot of guys just screaming over each other.
MCINTOSH: Thank you.
JONES: Over and over and over.
YANG: I want to explain that dynamic. This was the last time we're going to see two or three of these candidates.
BORGER: Yes.
YANG: And they were surrounded by their teams saying, all right, this is going to be our last debate unless you do something incredibly stratospheric that lights the political world afire. And those were essentially the incentives for everyone on the stage, which is, look, this is your last debate. Go out swinging.
MCINTOSH: See, I thought it was just proving that men were too emotional to be the president. So. No, I thought -- I thought Warren was great tonight for those who were looking for her to repeat her performance last time which clearly given the difference between early voting in Nevada and day of voting in Nevada you could see that her vote share was increasing post-debate. She raked in a ton of money. You know?
I think she -- I think she delivered for people who were looking for that. So, if there was someone who was leaning her way and waited to see what she should do tonight I think they got a really good performance out of these. She was wonky. She was her happy warrior herself. She didn't scream. I thought it was -- it came across as presidential in a debate that was a little bit less.
BORGER: You know the person we haven't mention is Buttigieg.
AXELROD: Yes. BORGER: And I thought there were times for me when he seemed to be kind of a truth teller there saying look at what we're looking at. The American public is worried about a Trump-Sanders contest because he said they want to turn on the TV and have their blood pressure go down and then up. And then he said --
JONES: Great one.
BORGER: Yes.
MCINTOSH: Yes.
BORGER: I'm sure he thought just right -- and then he said that Trump was stuck in the 50s and Bernie was stuck in the 60s. That's a pretty good line too.
AXELROD: Yes.
BORGER: And so, I thought -- I don't think Buttigieg got anything out of this debate because it was a shout fest. But I do think that he kind of -- he kept his calm and his self-respect, to put it that way.
COOPER: Let's play the -- let's play the 50s and 60s line.
BORGER: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I'm not looking forward to a scenario where it comes down to Donald Trump with his nostalgia for the social order of 1950s, and Bernie Sanders with the nostalgia for the revolutionary politics of the 1960s.
(APPLAUSE)
BUTTIGIEG: This is not about what coups were happening in the 1970s or 80s. This is about the future. This is about 2020. We are not going to survive or succeed and they are certainly not going to win by reliving the Cold War.
And we're not going to win this critical, critical House and Senate races if people in those races have to explain why the nominee of the Democratic Party is telling people to look at bright side of the Castro regime.
[22:20:05]
We've got to be a lot smarter about this and look to the future.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. All right. Senator Sanders -- Senator Sanders, your response.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let us be clear. Do we think healthcare for all, Pete, is some kind of radical communist idea? Do we think raising --
(CROSSTALK)
BUTTIGIEG: Let's talk about that.
SANDERS: -- the minimum wage to a living wage.
BUTTIGIEG: I'm happy to respond to the question because this is really important.
SANDERS: Do we think building the millions of affordable housing.
(CROSSTALK)
BUTTIGIEG: If (Inaudible) that rhetorical question let's go behind the --
SANDERS: Do Raising taxes on billionaires is a radical idea?
BUTTIGIEG: Let's talk about this.
SANDERS: You think criminal justice reform is a radical idea?
BUTTIGIEG: Senator, please, the things you just named are the things --
(CROSSTALK)
SANDERS: Do you think immigration reform -- the truth is, Pete --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One at a time.
BUTTIGIEG: -- we made mark. The way you're talking about doing is radical --
(CROSSTALK)
SANDERS: -- the American people support my agenda, that is why I am beating Trump in virtually every poll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: One of the things --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Let's all talk over each other.
COOPER: One of the things that was interesting about what Buttigieg, Buttigieg earlier had actually said, you know, we're facing this situation meaning the country is facing the situation where, you know, for the next year we are going to have to listen to President Trump and Bernie Sanders going after each other and kind of the war of that. Which does sort of set up what the dynamic very well maybe.
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: But it also raises the question is Sanders the only one who actually can go toe to toe with Donald Trump?
AXELROD: Well --
COOPER: I mean, to your point, debating him is like, you know, climbing a mountain or whatever the analogy was.
MCINTOSH: Walking into one.
COOPER: You know, nobody -- I mean, the people are upset at, you know, me or anybody else for raising a socialism issue with Sanders in an interview. I mean, when he's on the stage with Trump it's going to be one cheap shot after another.
JONES: Well, I'll tell you what.
COOPER: And is he the only one who actually can.
JONES: And I think -- I think the people who are excited about Bernie and who are happy that he's finally in the center of that stage, is that there is that belief that not only is he tough enough to go head to head with Trump and not be thrown off. But also, that he is leading a real movement.
COOPER: In which, I mean, you go to his -- I mean, if you go to all their rallies, I mean, his rallies are --
JONES: And that is very hard to do. Everybody wants to lead a movement. Everybody thinks that, you know, you got your Twitter followers or whatever by things that you're leading a movement. It's very, very hard to do what -- and part of the Sanders campaign pull of this the consistency that we get mad to him about, has allowed him to build the movement.
COOPER: I want to get to Erin Burnett and Dana Bash with Senator -- they're with Senator Amy Klobuchar.
Hey, guys.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right. And we are here with the senator who just obviously came.
And how did you feel from -- how did you feel about that free fall?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, it was another slug fest. And I don't think that necessarily serves the people who are watching.
But I will say that I tried my best with the exception of wanting to make the really clear case that we have a choice here and voters have a choice on Super Tuesday between putting a socialist in charge of the ticket or putting someone like me that can bring people with her and win back the Senate and keep the House. And that was my case.
And I tried to stay out of some of the fray honestly and instead chose to talk about how you really -- what we really need to do about the coronavirus, rural health care, education and the like. BURNETT: You did. You did, you know, last week obviously, you and Pete
Buttigieg had that, you know, rather spears-out run-in. But that was not what you opted for tonight.
KLOBUCHAR: Yes.
BURNETT: And a lot of people on the stage did.
KLOBUCHAR: Yes.
BURNETT: You mentioned socialism and Bernie Sanders.
KLOBUCHAR: I think --
(CROSSTALK)
BURNETT: That was pretty much it. Was that -- that was a strategy then not to get involved with some of the screaming (ph) matches?
(CROSSTALK)
KLOBUCHAR: Yes, because as I said if we're going to spend the next four months tearing our party apart, then we're going to be able to watch Donald Trump spend the next four years tearing our country apart.
So, I think it is really important for the people out there to see something else in a presidential candidate, that you're not just looking for sound bites on TV the next day. And I'm really aware that some of those exchanges with, say, Elizabeth and Bloomberg, that's what's going to show up on TV in the morning instead of my answer on rural health care.
What do you think matters more to the people of this country? The health care answer.
DANA BASH, CNN HOST: What matters here in South Carolina when you look at the demographic as you well know is 60 percent of the Democratic electorate is expected to be African-American.
And in the beginning of this race and obviously the first two contests, there weren't very many African-Americans in those electorates. There were some in Nevada. And you didn't -- you didn't get them, just to be blunt. So, what's your strategy to turn that around here?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I have to earn that support. And I'm well aware that the vice president has a long history of support in the African- American community. In my own state, I have significant support. I've done very well in every election and also have the support of leaders in the African-American community in this presidential race.
So, I just need to take that out on the road to make it very clear my policies. And one of the things that I can stress in addition to economic opportunity, criminal justice reform is in fact that I am the leader on getting rid of voting purges, on getting rid of gerrymandering, on automatically registering every kid to vote in this country when they turn 18. Voting matters big time to the African- American community.
BASH: So not surprisingly, you said you weren't in the fray. But there were some substantive debate discussions about lot of issues and in particular, health care. And you got into it with Bernie Sanders on that issue. I want you and our viewers to listen to.
KLOBUCHAR: Very good.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Our plan -- we have laid out options all over the place. One of the options is the 7.5 percent payroll tax on employers which will save them substantial sums of money. Another plan --
(CROSSTALK)
KLOBUCHAR: Hey, Bernie, let me respond to this.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Klobuchar, does the math add up?
KLOBUCHAR: No, the math does not add up. In fact, just on "60 Minutes" this weekend, he said he wasn't going to rattle through the nickels and the dimes. Well, let me tell you how many nickels and dimes we're talking about -- nearly $60 trillion. Do you know how much that is for all of his programs?
SANDERS: Not true.
KLOBUCHAR: That is three times the American economy. Not the federal government. The entire American economy. The Medicare for All plan alone on page eight clearly says that it will kick 149 million Americans off their current health insurance in four years. That is true.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Do you feel like you got an answer from Senator Sanders?
KLOBUCHAR: No. And he's repeatedly not said how he's going to pay for things. One of the best things we've got going here in terms of a fiscal argument with the president of the United States is the fact that he doesn't care about how he pays for anything. He's treating the people of America like they're poker chips in one of his bankrupt casinos.
And so, for Senator Sanders then, imagine what Donald Trump is going to be able to do to him on the debate stage to prosecute the case. You are going to kick people off their health insurance. You aren't going to say how you're going to pay for things.
Contrast that with me. I show every nickel and dime how I'm going to pay for things. I actually have a deficit pay-down program. I think that's going to make a big difference and allow me to be much more aggressive about arguing the facts with Donald Trump.
BURNETT: Last week, you were talking about Mayor Bloomberg and you were surprised. You said that he had performed as badly as he did. Did you think he did better? Were you surprised by how he did tonight or not? What --
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I think that first of all, I wanted him on that debate stage because I knew there would be a lot of questions raised. And it's really bothered me how he's able to just buy his way on the airwave. And by the way, every time people see a Michael Bloomberg ad, they should give to me at amyklobuchar.com.
To me, that would create some fairness so I can run those same ads. And I think that this time, he seemed prepared -- more prepared to answer these questions. But there's still huge problems here in terms of his lack of support for Democrats, and some of the issues of course relating to things he said.
He said that was misguided to increase the minimum wage. He said that in 2014. It didn't come out in the debate today. But that just gives you an example of some of the things he said.
BASH: What about what he got into with Senator Warren again about the NDAs and the questions about the statements that he made or didn't make --
KLOBUCHAR: Exactly.
BASH: -- you know, during many years ago when he was in the workplace --women in the workplace were not happy with his conduct?
KLOBUCHAR: Well, I think first of all, he's released a few of the women from the NDA. But I think what she's saying she wants to get all the evidence and she's right. You're running for president. It all has to come out.
But I think what was missing what I wanted to say in that discussion was, what about -- we always focus on the rich and the famous. That's fine. But when it comes to sexual harassment, you know, we should be talking about the housekeeper in the hotel and the nurse in the hospital or the factory worker on the front line that's getting pinched while she's doing her job. Those are the things we should be focused on.
BURNETT: All right. Senator Klobuchar, we appreciate your time.
BASH: Thank you, Senator.
KLOBUCHAR: OK. Thank you.
BURNETT: All right. Back to you, Anderson.
KLOBUCHAR: Thank you.
COOPER: Erin, Dana, thank you very much.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back shortly with more from the candidates and our political press. We'll be right back.
[22:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BASH: Welcome back to our special coverage debate night here in Charleston, South Carolina. I'm here with Erin Burnett and with Mayor Pete Buttigieg, who was just on the debate stage.
And Mr. Mayor, first let me just ask you generally, how did it feel up there, because watching it, it was -- it was just cackling. A little bit chaotic at times. You got yourself in there, but did it feel uncomfortable or were you --
PETE BUTTIGIEG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No. It was a little scrappy. But I had the opportunity to get my message out. And I think what the Americans saw was two different visions. One is Senator Sanders' vision, that we have to go all the way to one side and you've got to be agreeing with him or you must be for the status quo.
Mine is different. A way to hold to our progressive values and pull more Americans with us. I just don't think that we stand a chance of defeating President Trump if we're dividing people further. And in a place like South Carolina, for example, right here in Charleston, where Joe Cunningham almost miraculously flipped a seat and was able to turn it into a Democratic seat, and across the country, we've got Democratic House members like that. We have got to make sure that we help them and have a top of the ticket who will help rather than hurt.
BASH: Let me play for our viewers one of the moments where you made a similar argument in the debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUTTIGIEG: I'll tell you exactly what it adds up to. It adds up to four more years of Donald Trump, Kevin McCarthy as speaker of the House and the inability to get the Senate into Democratic hands. The time has come for us to stop acting like the presidency is the only office that matters. Not only is this a way to get Donald Trump reelected, we've got a House to worry about. We've got a Senate to worry about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: You're really the only one on that debate stage making the argument not just for yourself, for president but for Democrats down ballot and particularly the Democrats keeping the House.
[22:35:07]
BUTTIGIEG: Well, I'm a mayor. I know how important these decisions that get made at the state level are and as a president. None of the things we're saying we're going to do will come to anything, even if we do win the White House, if we lose the House, and if we lose ground in the Senate. It's why it's so critically important. You know, one of the questions
I get the most often from voters is how are you going to get any of this done if Mitch McConnell is in power to block you. And so, we have a responsibility. I don't want our nominee to be stuck -- to have, you know, House Democrats stuck explaining why we nominated Bernie Sanders when we could have nominated a Democrat.
BURNETT: So, you made the point very clearly. You said, Bernie can't win. You really believe that?
BUTTIGIEG: Look, if he got nominated, I would do everything in my power to help. But I think it's a terrible risk to take in an election that we absolutely dare not lose.
BURNETT: All right, so he came after you at one point. And I think, if I have it right, I wrote down. He said, you are running to billionaires for funding. To which you responded that you had -- what was it, 2,000 donors (ph) right here in Charleston?
BUTTIGIEG: Yes, 2,000 grassroots donors from right here in Charleston. So I'm glad --
BURNETT: Were you surprised when he came after you that way?
BUTTIGIEG: I was not surprised, but I did appreciate the chance to clear it out because, you know, he's got people thinking that's where most of our funding comes from. It's just not true. What he was talking about is less than a fraction of one percent.
We raised the bulk of our campaign contributions from grassroots supporters. Folks -- yes, I'm going to say it, if you're watching and you support my campaign, I need you to go to peteforamerica.com and chip in a few bucks because that is the life blood of our campaign, especially as we prepare for Super-Tuesday.
And what I really want to be talking about is a plan to win. My plan to win is not to define a campaign by whose help we reject, but to define our campaign by how we can draw people together. To call people in, not call them names online, to reach out to fellow diehard Democrats and independents, and even some of those crossover Republicans who are willing to consider voting for a Democrat, but not just any Democrat.
BASH: On that note, I want to ask you the same question I just asked Senator Klobuchar which is about, where we are right now, South Carolina. About 60 percent of the electorate is likely to be African- American. You have not done well so far with African-Americans.
How are you going to turn that around here, and then you know, continuing on more broadly in other states where it matters? I mean, it's historically very important for Democrats to get that vote to be the nominee.
BUTTIGIEG: Well, tonight was a great opportunity to get my message out to black voters who I think have often felt taken for granted by politics as usual. To talk about the Frederick Douglass plan, my comprehensive vision that was shape by black voices, not me sitting in a room, about how we can deliver economic empowerment, how we can deliver real criminal justice reform, voting rights and all of the other things that need attention.
Now, look, many of the candidates who are performing best with black voters, one of two things is true. Either they've been around for decades to get known or they have billions of dollars to spend to get known. Obviously, neither one of those thing is true for me.
But I'm out there asking for a vote that I know is hard-won, that I will never take for granted and also will never miss an opportunity to seek to earn. And I think that's how we are going to continue to gather that support as we go.
BURNETT: So, you know, we have seen it obviously -- we'll see what happens on Saturday. Joe Biden was very clear. He's answered the questioned of what happens to you if you don't win. He is going to win. But we have seen a shift in the polls. And primarily, that's been Bernie Sanders rising. But have you felt any shift on the ground?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, what we're seeing is more people taking an interest. You've got to remember that many voters are busy. And they've got a lot going on. And they don't follow the blow-by-blow with the nominating race for a whole year. In the days leading up to the vote, which are the days that we are in right now when it comes to South Carolina, many voters really sit down and look through their options in a new way. And that's why these days ahead are so critical for our campaign.
BASH: So, let's just talk strategy and raw numbers here. You have made very clear tonight over and over again that you don't think Senator Sanders, well, obviously you don't -- think you're the best person to be the nominee. But on particularly Senators Sanders, who is the frontrunner now could hurt the Party.
But part of the issue is that moderates like you are splintering the non-Sanders vote. Do you see any change in that? Do you see any consolidation? And I guess, to answer that question, you would have to say who's willing to go first and to say, I'm out in order to help consolidate?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, you're right. Two things you just pointed out. One, Senator Sanders is in the lead. And two, most Democrats want somebody besides Senator Sanders. Now, I've gotten the most votes so far of anyone besides Senator Sanders. I've got the most delegates of anyone besides Senator Sanders. And I'm the only one to come in ahead of him anywhere in the Iowa contest going by the delegate count.
And so, if you're looking for an alternative to coalesce around, I believe ours is the strongest. That has been demonstrated in the voting up until now. And we'll work to keep earning that place to be the alternative. And that's what I think folks saw tonight. Two very different theories about how to bring real change to this country.
One, that's about going to the extreme. And just beating down anybody who disagrees with you. And the other that is about how we can do these things that the American people want from higher wages to healthcare for everybody and uniting the American people to get it done.
[22:40:06]
BURNETT: So, there was a line you had. Look, everyone -- your rivals, they come on here. They talk about your gift with words, OK? You had a line where you talk about the '50s -- going back with '50s with Donald Trump and the '60s with Bernie Sanders. Did you -- out of just pure curiosity, did you plan that one or where you -- was that just on the fly?
BUTTIGIEG: Well, it's just been on my mind. You know, to me this election is about the future. It's 2020. We're facing unprecedented challenges from cyber threats to election intervention, from Russia to things like the coronavirus.
And I see this pattern where we keep getting sucked and we're talking about, you know, Fidel Castro. And we're talking about early Fidel Castro. This is a kind of time warp that is I think the exact wrong answer for a moment when voters want to know what we're going to secure the future.
BURNETT: All right. Thank you very much. Mayor Pete Buttigieg, we appreciate your time.
BASH: Thank you.
BURNETT: And more candidates is going to be with us when we come back. Dana and I are here in South Carolina. We will be right back and Anderson and his team as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Democratic debate number 10 on the books. Last one before South Carolinians votes. The last debate before Super-Tuesday. I will bring in the team shortly, but first I want to go back to Erin Burnett and Dana Bash with Senator Bernie Sanders. Erin?
[22:45:07]
BURNETT: All right. And we are here with Senator Sanders. And as I said, so that's how it feels right, to be in the center, to be the front-runner. How did it feel?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I guess when you win the popular vote in Iowa and you win the New Hampshire Primary and you win the Nevada Caucus, this is what is what happens. Your name gets mentioned a whole lot. You get attacked a whole lot.
But that's fine. We're feeling great. And I think we have the real momentum to win here in South Carolina, and pull off a major upset and do very well on Super Tuesday.
BURNETT: So, let me ask you about some of these attacks. It started -- I mean it stared right off the bat, OK? SANDERS: Yes.
BURNETT: Vladimir Putin came up and it started. Let me just play one of the first exchanges here, Senator.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think that Donald Trump thinks it would be better if he's president. I do not think so. Vladimir Putin thinks that Donald Trump should be president of the United States. And that's why Russia is helping you get elected. So you'll lose to him.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERS)
SANDERS: Let me tell Mr. Putin, OK. I'm not a good friend of President Xi of China. I think President Xi is an authoritarian leader. And let me tell Mr. Putin, who interfered in the 2016 election, try to bring Americans against Americans. Hey, Mr. Putin, if I'm president of the United States, trust me, you're not going to interfere in anymore American elections.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: You seem like you enjoyed that.
SANDERS: Well, look, you've got a situation where what the Russians did in 2016 is very, very serious stuff. We pride ourselves. What are we as a nation, if we don't have democracy, if we don't have the right to cast ballots that are secure, if we're not living in a free country?
And Putin, not only in the United States, by the way, but all over Western Europe, is trying to disrupt democracy. He's an autocrat. He doesn't believe in democracy. He's trying to divide our people up in very, very ugly ways.
That is an enormously serious attack against the American people. As president of the United States, that will end. Russia will not interfere in our elections.
BASH: The overall tone of, you say were attacks on you were not just about you because they want to be the front-runner not you. It was about you as an existential threat to the Democrats and the notion of trying to beat Donald Trump.
And I'm just wondering how you combat that, not only on the presidential level, but also down ballot. I mean, I know I've heard from lots of Democrats who are focused on and even themselves trying to win again in suburbs who are freaking out and --
(CROSSTALK)
SANDERS: Well, Dana, look. Let's be clear. The establishment is freaking out. The corporate media to a larger degree is freaking out. As you're aware, some really horrific things have been said about me on, at least one television channel.
The establishment is worried. Wall Street is worried. The drug companies are worried. The insurance companies are worried. The fossil fuel industries are worried. And you know what? They should be worried.
But here is the point. In the last 50 polls that have been done nationally, guess what, Bernie Sanders beat Donald Trump 47 times out of 50. I will beat Trump in battleground states like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin. Just look at the polling this last weekend. I beat Trump.
The way you beat Trump, in my view, is to have the largest voter turnout in the history of this country. And if you run a campaign in the same old, same old way that we have run it in the past, if there's not energy and excitement, if you're not getting working-class people to get involved in the political process, if you're not bringing millions of young people into the political process, and we are doing that, I think Trump is going to win.
BASH: And just to be even more specific, Nancy Pelosi is Speaker of the House because the Democrats won the suburb.
SANDERS: Right, right.
BASH: And there is a lot of concern that Bernie Sanders at the top of the Democratic ticket means bye-bye to the suburbs. It's not about the corporate, you know, structure or so forth. It's about the demographics of the suburbs.
SANDERS: Well, apparently -- no, I think again, you know, kind of -- we might want to listen to the people. And the people voted for me in Iowa, in New Hampshire, and in Nevada.
And I think we are going to do very well in the coming elections. I think too often, we have leadership that is isolated from where real people are. And if we're going to beat Trump, we need a powerful message that says, you know what, we need an economy and a government that works for everybody. not just the one percent.
We don't talk about this on corporate media very often. We don't talk about it in the Congress very often. What is (ph) something wrong when after 45 years of an increase in productivity and technology, the average American worker is not making a nickel more than he or she did 45 years ago.
[22:50:05]
When in the last three years, the billionaires of this country have seen $800 billion increase in their wealth, while last year, the average American worker saw a one percent increase in his or her (ph) income. We need fundamental changes. We need a government that works for all, not just the Michael Bloombergs of the world or wealthy campaign contributors. BURNETT: So, you know, Marco Rubio's campaign manager wrote an op-ed
the other day, it's interesting, it started off describing a fiery septuagenarian, who calls out the corporate media, who comes in second in Iowa, first in New Hampshire.
SANDERS: I know where you're going on that.
BURNETT: OK. Is it -- is there something that you share? You know, when you talk about the polls or you talk about the corporate media that you're tapping into the same things that he tapped into successfully?
SANDERS: Look, I have spent my whole life doing the best that I could fighting for justice. When I was a kid, I think I was 21 years of age, I was arrested in the City of Chicago, opposing segregated housing. I was involved in the civil rights movement.
And when I became a member of the Senate, I went to Immokalee, Florida to stand with undocumented workers who were getting ruthlessly exploited and we had some impact on it. That's what I've done. I've been on more picket lines probably than anybody on that stage.
Come on, that is what I do. That is what my life is about. And I think at the end of the day, people in this country will understand that Donald Trump is a fraud. He told the working people of this country in 2016 that he would provide health care to everybody.
You covered that, right? That's what he said. And he tried to throw 32 million people off the health insurance that he had -- that they had. He said his tax bill would not benefit the rich, 83 percent of the benefits of that bill went to the top one percent over a 10-year period.
He said he wouldn't cut Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. That is what his budget has done. He is a fraud. And if I'm the Democratic nominee, I will expose him for the fraud he is. He is not a friend of working people. He represents his own class, which is the billionaire class.
BURNETT: So, when Amy Klobuchar says, and she was just talking with us a few moments ago, she talked about her math, which she laid out there, right, that she was critical of you saying that your projected costs for what you're suggesting are three times greater than the size of the entire U.S. economy right now.
SANDERS: Look, right now, the average American -- just in terms of health care, the average American worker, that family is making about $60,000 a year. That family right now is paying $12,000 a year for health care. Does anyone think that's fair? That that's right?
Twenty percent of people's income are now going to health care. Under my proposal, that would go substantially down. A study just came out from Yale showing that Medicare for All will save $450 billion a year, and save 68,000 lives because people will finally be able to go to the doctor before they have a terminal illness. Every study done shows that Medicare for All will save money. And that is what we have got to do.
BASH: Can I just ask you about that? Because you served in the Congress for a long time and I've watched you. You understand the realities as much as you are passionate about what you want to do. You understand what you can and cannot do. Do you actually think if you become president, you can get that passed?
SANDERS: Yes, I do.
BASH: In any -- even if there's a super majority of Democrats?
SANDERS: I'm going to be -- I mean, our campaign is a different type of campaign. Our campaign is not vote for me, I'm a great guy. Our campaign is a multiracial, multigenerational movement of working people, black and white and Latino, Native American, Asian-American coming together in the fight for justice. I've said it before, I say it again, if I'm elected president, I will not just be commander-in- chief for the military. I'll be that. I will be organizer-in-chief.
I will be going all over the country to put pressure on Senators, like those from Kentucky, for example. Go to the people in Kentucky who are really hard-pressed, they're hurting right now and say, really, do you think we should raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour? You tell your Senators to do it. Should we make public colleges and universities tuition-free? You tell your Senators to do that.
I think I will be a very different type of president rallying the American people around an agenda that they support and telling Congress that they've got to represent ordinary Americans, not just the wealthy campaign contributors. That is the problem with American politics today. Congress represents wealthy campaign contributors, ignores the needs of middle-class and working families.
BURNETT: Senator, thank you very much. We appreciate your time.
BASH: Thank you, Senator.
SANDERS: Thank you very much.
BASH: Thank you.
We're going to take a quick break. We're expecting Senator Elizabeth Warren right here next. We're covering debate night in South Carolina. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[22:55:00]
COOPER: Hey, we're coming up on the top of the hour, Democratic debate night in South Carolina. For some of the candidates tonight, raw political combat, for others a chance if they are trying to make the case that just such warfare, is tempting as it might be in the primary race. It could be fatal on a general election campaign.
However the candidates choose to conduct themselves or chose to conduct themselves tonight. This was a significant moment, the last debate before Super Tuesday, full of issues voters care about at a time when the stakes are only growing. We'll bring you all the key moments tonight. We'll talk to more candidates shortly. Senator Elizabeth Warren is going to be coming up shortly.
We're joined right now by the best political team around. Nia-Malika Henderson, David Axelrod, Gloria Borger, Van Jones, former candidate Andrew Yang, Josh McIntosh and CNN political commentator Abdul El- Sayed, who we should mentioned has endorsed Bernie Sanders.
We've heard from a couple of the candidates so far, Pete Buttigieg seems to feel pleased about what he was able to do on the stage tonight. Let's talk a little bit more about Biden and where you see his performance tonight, I mean, he definitely --
JONES: Look, the bar is low for Biden, let's just admit that the bar for him is low but listen, he didn't do anything tonight that would break his momentum in South Carolina. People -- it's very clear that Bernie is gaining on him in South Carolina. But he did stuff that reminded you of why you care about this guy. He's been on the American scene for a long time. Yes, he gets shouty. That doesn't work as well.
