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CNN Live Event/Special

Biden Wins 9 States, Sanders Win 3 States, 2 Too Close to Call. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired March 04, 2020 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:00:47]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Tonight is why we tell you the only polls that matter are those on the days of the elections. Super Tuesday, super indeed, especially for Joe Biden.

Joe Biden had a night nobody expected just days ago. Your big headlines -- well, take a look behind me. Alabama, Arkansas, Massachusetts, Minnesota, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Tennessee, the big prize, Texas, for Joe Biden and Virginia.

Now, this is an incomplete story for two reasons. Sanders, Colorado, Utah, Vermont. But the big prize of the night with all the delegates is obviously California. And that is still too early to call. Bernie Sanders doing very well. Ton of delegates. Take a look at the votes.

Here we are in California. Bernie Sanders, a healthy lead right now, 45 percent estimate of the vote. You will see some people making projections. We are not.

The tale of the tape, big number to look at is not that Biden is doing as well as he was because he was nowhere in California 10, 12 days ago, but Bloomberg, got to watch that number and in Texas. If Bloomberg doesn't make to 15 percent in California and Texas, it's going to be hard for him to justify moving on. That's the threshold number for delegates.

We're also showing you Maine because even with 91 percent, the race is still too close to call. Now, you're thinking, Maine, 24 delegates, why? It's a great metaphor state.

Four years ago, if you look at how Bernie Sanders did there, he was dominant. Yes, there were few people in the race, but it also says something about what is new tonight.

Bernie Sanders has the momentum. He has a movement. He has the organization. He has the money.

But the Bernie bros did not come to play today, Phil Mattingly. We didn't see evidence of big revolutionary-type turnout of votes. We didn't see it. And what we did see is in suburbs, Joe Biden coming to play in a way that no one expected, especially in Texas. He wound up taking it.

What stands out to you?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Putting together a broader coalition, I want to compare and contrast to 2016 and actually starts with states that Bernie Sanders won tonight. So, let's pull up Utah. Again, a sizable win, 30,000 votes. But let's look to 2016. Back in 2016, he crushed Hillary Clinton in

Utah by almost 60 points. I think one of the interesting things about this -- look, caveat, this is a bigger race. There were more candidates, impressive all around.

But when you win the state by 60 points four years ago and then you come in this time around in a state not a lot of candidates campaigned in, and you win it lie less of a margin but also you made a key point. There are three candidates above 15 percent that will be polling delegates from Bernie Sanders. It's not just that that this margin is smaller, and e caveat that with more candidates in the race, but also, all of these individuals at this point, 88 percent reporting, have qualified for statewide delegates if this holds.

CUOMO: Something important about Utah that you pointed out earlier about Maine, has different impact here. Utah was -- what do you call it, a caucus. He does better in caucus states --

MATTINGLY: Without any question --

CUOMO: He didn't do as well this time. In Maine four years ago, it was a caucus state. He cleaned up because he tends to do well in caucus states. That did not hold as a rule in Utah. Keep going on.

MATTINGLY: It's a shift, one that's carried throughout the night. Take a look at Colorado, as well. Again, a significant win, 96,000 votes, doing well. In 2016, won by 19 points. Did very, very well in Colorado.

And again, three different candidates polling from Bernie Sanders delegates on the statewide level based on how they were doing tonight. Expanded field, but that is cutting into the amount of delegates that Bernie Sanders can poll from the course of the night.

You move to another interesting one. Bernie Sanders' home state of Vermont. Look at what he did in 2016. Again, it's his home state. He won by a major, major margin.

Look at this time around, nobody is expecting anybody to compete in Vermont, nobody was spending money in Vermont. Bernie Sanders got over 50 percent, did very well in Vermont. Joe Biden's going to pull delegates from Bernie Sanders' home state.

Now, two other things you mentioned, two states you mentioned that had caucuses back in 2016.

[04:05:01]

Again, I want to make clear caucuses are very different than primaries --

CUOMO: And he does well.

MATTINGLY: Bernie Sanders does very well in caucuses. Just take a look at what happened in Nevada. You mentioned Maine.

Right now, Joe Biden, you've seen the lead shrink a little since the last time we talked about it, 91 percent, shy of 2,000-vote lead.

CUOMO: Except the Bloomberg's huge house in the middle of that state.

MATTINGLY: He has in the middle of the state. Still , not above 15 percent statewide. In 2016 during the caucuses, Bernie Sanders winning by 30 percent. Again, it's apples to oranges to some degree. It shows he had major strength.

And look it an anecdotal perspective in talking to campaigns going into this night, no one was putting Joe Biden on the map. All the sudden, Joe Biden is in a real possibility of actually winning Maine. The other win you can't ignore, another caucus state in 2016 was Minnesota.

I was talking to people in the lead up to tonight. There was question about Bernie Sanders, obviously, Amy Klobuchar didn't drop out until two days ago depending what time it is. Amy Klobuchar endorsing Joe Biden. Joe Biden coming into a huge win in Minnesota which wasn't expected.

Flip back to 2016, caucus state at the time. Bernie Sanders wins it by 25 points --

CUOMO: I think the biggest story he's going to have to tell himself and figure out is Texas, because Texas is a metaphor look at what the stakes are for both of these two, assuming -- look, it's not about ignoring Warren, it's about focusing on the results.

She's going to have to make a decision about how she does. She's not making the 15 percent threshold in a lot of states. She got cleaned up on in Massachusetts for whatever reason, which is her home state.

But in this state, what we were looking for is this area here that you say is a concentration of Latinos especially blowing up, and younger voters blowing up in the state to show the vibrancy of the movement that is Bernie Sanders punitively. But it didn't happen.

You saw more Joe Biden hitting it hard in suburban areas which is, of course, the big fear of Donald Trump which is why he was going after Biden in the first place.

MATTINGLY: The interesting thing about Texas is Bernie Sanders, one be spent heavily, had a great organization --

CUOMO: Yes, that's another thing, Biden, no dough for Super Tuesday. Not even on our list.

MATTINGLY: Exactly. And did well in areas you expected him to. Let's look at the Latino population by counties. Where you see the yellow yellow/brownish area -- let me click this back, down here, kind of scroll here.

Let's see what actually happen tonight. Bernie Sanders doing very well in the area. He did what he needed to do with the Latino vote, at least in the counties. You pull to Austin, home of University of Texas, a strong area for Bernie Sanders. Big margin here, as well.

But he didn't -- didn't run up younger people, where things did run up in this state, in the suburbs, the Dallas-Fort Worth area, the Houston area. Joe Biden just crushed in these areas. We saw it roll up as the Election Day came vote in. All of a sudden Joe Biden was adding 5,000, 10,000, 15,000 to his margins, and that separated the two.

That's why Joe Biden winning by four-ish points may grow as the night goes on. That's why Texas was such a sprout.

CUOMO: That's why it scares the president. That's why he's saying vote for Bernie. He's worried about the voters especially college- educated women. He's going to have to worry about.

All right. So, this is all good stuff. It brings to a question, come over to where Ron and Rebecca are.

Now, look, I'm not going to sleep on the movement with Bernie Sanders. We learned our lesson four years ago. I like to see the Biden people coming after me on social media. Welcome to the election. I haven't heard from you guys all along.

Hearing from Bernie's people saying, why aren't you giving him more respect? Tonight they don't have such a great case. Look through the lens of how Democrats voted. What do you see?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: So, here's something interesting. In 2016, Bernie Sanders really struggled among self- identified Democrats. He kept in the race by his strength among independents who participated in the Democratic primary. He lost self- identified Democrats in 24 of the 27 states with exit polls last time.

In the beginning of this race, it looked like he surmounted the problem. He ran competitively with Democrats in Iowa, in New Hampshire, and Nevada. In South Carolina, suddenly he's back to the 3- 1 deficit among Democrats.

When he won New Hampshire, his tone was not, I'm here to be part of the Democratic Party, it was more, I'm here to take over the Democratic Party. I mean, his rhetoric was, I am running against the Democratic establishment as well as the Republican establishment.

This week, he said he would only pick a vice presidential nominee who agrees with him on Medicare for All. There's been very little outrage. There's much more about kind of our movement is taking over the party.

Look what happened tonight in Virginia and North Carolina. Self- identified Democrats, he lost them by 30 points. Oklahoma, 25. Tennessee, 20. Minnesota, 15. Alabama, 50. He's back to where he was in 2016 where, you know, Joe Biden, what he

talked about -- lifetime Democrats are not -- at this moment, too many of them are viewing him as something of a kind of corporate raider who's looking to take over the party, and someone who is looking to build a coalition and lead the party.

[04:10:15]

CUOMO: Corporate raider, not words you usually identify with Bernie Sanders. You're feeling the ceiling again.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CUOMO: Does he have a limit to it.

What is your take based on the story tonight of the strength of Bernie Sanders' movement versus what we're seeing on social media? All these Biden people coming up. They need a hashtag, Ron head a great tip for you guys, by the way. What is it -- Joe-mentum. He says do not use Joe-mentum, why?

BROWNSTEIN: Joe Lieberman.

CUOMO: Joe Lieberman used Joe-mentum and it didn't work out well.

BROWNSTEIN: Not the best presidential campaign ever. No.

CUOMO: Good advice for the hashtag.

What do you see?

REBECCA BUCK, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: So, here's the question -- how does Bernie Sanders start to expand his base of support here in the next few weeks over these next crucial primaries. As we've seen, he has a ceiling right now. It's these younger voters, it's these independents.

He has said that he can expand on that, but as we've seen as the party is coming together around Joe Biden, this more moderate wing of the Democratic Party, he's going to have to do better than he's doing right now. So, the question is, how does she shake up this dynamic when as we've seen he does not want to change his message?

He knows what he believes. He's sticking with it. So, how does he bring more people into his tent, and also, you know, there's this question still, can Biden be consistent over the next few weeks?

He has been a very uneven candidate. Right now, you have a number of moderates endorsing him. He has this momentum. And he needs to sustain that, though.

BROWNSTEIN: Debating Bernie one on one could be uncomfortable for Biden.

BUCK: Very interesting. BROWNSTEIN: But having said that, the contrast between the way

Sanders handled winning New Hampshire and talking about running against the Democratic establishment as much as the Republican establishment. And look what happened for Biden after South Carolina, three of his former rivals closed behind him within, you know, 48 hours.

The symbol is -- the signal that's sent to the party was that the party's consolidating around him, but that he was welcoming them in. And you know, there were clearly many voters who have been looking for a cue.

Stan Greensburg, Democratic pollster, Clinton's pollster, been doing this since the '80s, said to me, this is a once in a century primary in the extent to which voters have moved in a short period of time. Once that signal was sent, you know, in effect, this is where the mainstream of the party is consolidating. You saw incredible movement -- that's how you win Texas, that's how you win Massachusetts, potentially Maine, states where no one gave you a chance. Voters -- yep, this is it.

Now Bernie has to, Sanders, has to break, interrupt that narrative. And he's got to find, as Rebecca said, this is a guy who likes being consistent. He's got to find a second act.

CUOMO: Well, look, a couple of questions. We'll go to break and come back with information about who voted and where tonight.

What's more likely? Do you think Joe Biden can keep having these other people who are candidates out there on the hustings making the case for him? He needs it. Or is it more likely that Bernie Sanders can modify his message, go heavy on principles but not absolute on policies? Two X-factors. And who voted and where?

Answers, next.

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[04:17:38]

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Clearly, a big night for the Biden campaign and Joe Biden winning almost every state tonight but three so far. There are still two states out. The big question -- before we put that up, come back to me first.

Here's -- initially, early on in the first caucuses and primaries. Turnout was a big concern for Democrats. They were worried because of turnout, didn't look like it was going to be as big as 2016, and even 2018.

But that concern maybe they want to put to rest. Now let's put that up, because, look, let's show you, in Virginia and Texas, Tennessee, this is the turnout that changed since 2016, up almost 70 percent in Virginia, 40 percent in Texas, Tennessee, almost 40 percent. That is huge. Those are states where Joe Biden won. There are other states below that where there was a moderate increase in turnout. So, now, let's get to the folks who are here in the studio with me. So

you remember early on, guys, ladies and gent, in Iowa and New Hampshire, there was a concern, right, about the turnout also in Nevada a little bit then South Carolina, right, the turnout was higher.

So, what do you think is going on here? Why -- why did this happen? What happened to the increase in turnout? What's going on?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, if you look at the early states where Bernie Sanders tended to be a little bit better, those were lower turnout states. The states with big turnout, Joe Biden is winning.

And so I think that tells you something about who's enthusiastic to vote and for what candidate. And that's a good story for Joe and a bad story for Sanders.

LEMON: Well, that leads me to this question because do endorsements really matter? Because I think -- endorsements matter? I think the turnout is bigger on Super Tuesday than it was in South Carolina. That comes after the Clyburn endorsement. Do endorsements matter? Clyburn, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Beto O'Rourke, do endorsements matter?

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: All endorsements are not created equal. Someone like Congressman Clyburn has a network, he has that state wired -- in the exit polls, you saw people cared who Clyburn was going to -- to tap. I think the scale of the enforcements for Joe Biden really matter --

LEMON: So, Clyburn mattered. He built this.

KUCINCH: Clyburn built this.

LEMON: He built this. He built this momentum and the turnout.

KUCINICH: Absolutely. I mean, I think Amanda said that he owes, Joe Biden, everybody owes Clyburn a fruit basket after what he did, perhaps an ambassadorship if he wins down the line.

[04:20:05]

But I -- so -- but I think the scale, all the Democratic -- so many of the former adversaries endorsing him, all in one fell swoop that night. I think that sent a message.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Specifically, Klobuchar really mattered. Beto O'Rourke mattered in Texas. I mean, these people have following. They have, you know, voters care about what they think in these states.

LEMON: Do you think Democrats were saying, ah, because if you looked at what David Chalian showed earlier, a lot of voters made their choice late. They went toward Joe Biden. DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I think they matter

in this sense, and this is to follow up on what Jackie was saying, especially with Congressman Clyburn. It's not so much that he partnershiped Sanders voters to Biden voters, he focused his state's mind on what was at stake in the election. Congressman Clyburn gave the best speech of anybody this entire cycle.

Two things stood out when he gave the speech. He said America is already great. That was a direct challenge to the make America great again, you know, exclusionary rhetoric.

The second thing he said was, he said, I've been arrested doing sit- ins and marches. I wasn't worried back then. Now I'm worried. That got people's minds around you have to get out and vote.

LEMON: He gave people a reason to go to the store. I need to buy this. I need to vote for this. And that affected the turnout, I think, in --

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that's exactly right. Look, we're in a moment where we're so barraged by information and tweets from the president. It's not that voting isn't important. It is important, part of why we were I think nervous is we all assume like turnout's going to be huge. What's going on.

But I think to David's point, he also focused people on you got to go do this right now. You got to put down -- whatever it is you're doing, put that down because this is our future. This is our country. This is, you know, this is the existential crisis that we are facing. And right now you can do something about it.

I'll tell you what was important about that having done some work in South Carolina. A lot of voters, part of their frustration is they do not equate the act of voting with change. When you hear someone like a Jim Clyburn, when you see people that you trust like an Amy Klobuchar, like Beto O'Rourke and the ability to bring -- Mayor Pete, to bring them together and say we're coalescing behind someone because it's not just about -- I reject the idea that it's about the system is rigged against Sanders. No, it's that voters are saying we're going to pick someone who can beat Donald Trump because it's too dangerous not to.

CARPENTER: I think we need to acknowledge more what Amy Klobuchar did. She ended her race the day before. She went to Texas and endorsed Joe Biden. Not only that, it's been reported that her team, her supporters knocked doors in Minnesota --

LEMON: Yes, canvass.

CARPENTER: -- for Joe Biden. People who worked on campaigns know how hard that would be -- to realize that the dream is over, your candidate is not going to make it, and turn around so quickly and put that energy behind someone else I think is really an amazing story.

LEMON: I do have to say that you're right about that, Mayor Buttigieg got out and said, well, I'm not sure. I'm not ready to endorse anyone. Amy Klobuchar said "I am endorsing right away," which was a smart I think and strategic move, I'm not sure why Mayor Buttigieg didn't do it. But subsequently did decide to do it. It took a beat --

FINNEY: He did it.

LEMON: Yes. He did it. I think it -- Klobuchar was smart --

KUCINICH: I want to give a shout out to Tennessee voters who had one of their population centers hit by a deadly tornado. People still came out to vote.

LEMON: Still came out.

KUCINICH: That is really -- that's incredible.

LEMON: Look, you need money to stay in the race. And you know, there's been criticism about, oh, you know, billionaires donating and PACs and all that. But the truth is you need money to stay in the race.

But if you look at it, Sanders has lots of money, right. He has all these small donors. Bloomberg has lots of money. Steyer has lots of money, didn't ultimately stay in the race.

But Joe Biden didn't have any money, right. Didn't have any media, wasn't doing ad buys. Late ad buys. How important -- how important is it to have money, for people -- is it important?

FINNEY: It's very important. Look, the other thing if we think about Senator Sanders, he said three, almost four years building from his campaign --

LEMON: Biden had no money.

FINNEY: OK. But people -- he did have some money.

LEMON: Name recognition.

FINNEY: He had name recognition. He has -- he was Obama's vice president. You cannot undercount how important that was. The feeling of people saying we know who this guy is, we know what he's capable of, I think he will probably solve the money problem coming out of today --

[04:25:01]

CARPENTER: He has. Look at this. Look at how much he spent in Minnesota.

LEMON: Let's put up the ad buy -- we got the ad buying if we can put that up and how much money they spent, as soon as we get it. But go on.

KUCINICH: I was going to say, in Minnesota, he spent like $6,000. Bernie Sanders spent over $200,000.

FINNEY: Here's the point, here's the thing -- Senator Sanders voters -- LEMON: Look at this, Bloomberg spent $561 million. Steyer, $214

million. Wow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But to quote the Beatles, money can't buy you love. Honestly. Look at all the money that Bloomberg spent -- yeah.

LEMON: And money can't buy you Super Tuesday either.

FINNEY: Apparently not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So --

SWERDLICK: Bloomberg's money would have taken him a lot further if he hadn't tanked two debates, I will just say that, you're right. You can't buy love.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was the man behind the curtain.

FINNEY: I think it's so important about the difference between what Biden has to do now in terms of money and what senator Sanders has is, you know, he's built this organization. He has people giving, they've been growing that list.

You know, when you have that, you have know next month what's coming in. Joe Biden -- they still have to solve this problem. They've done better with the grassroots fund-raising. Yes, he'll get a ton of money, but he's going to need a sustainable movement of people who are willing to give.

LEMON: OK. One more time with that graphic, please. To show before we go to break. You had that, right. Whose face you don't see up there is what?

FINNEY: Elizabeth Warren.

LEMON: You don't see the former vice president's face up there.

FINNEY: Yes.

LEMON: Guess how much he got to earn media after winning South Carolina --

CARPENTER: A bazillion dollars.

LEMON: $100 million. There you go.

KUCINICH: Like a quarter of Bloomberg.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Very good. It is that kind of humor that will get you back.

Don't go away. We'll be right back.

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