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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN Projects Biden Wins Michigan, His Third Win Of The Night; Biden Wins MI, MS, MO & Awaiting Results From Three More States: ND, WA, ID; Andrew Yang Endorses Joe Biden For President. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired March 10, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: --Wolf, are turning out for Joe Biden.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM WITH WOLF BLITZER: Yes, so far, so good for Biden.
The last polling places are about to close in Michigan. It's the top prize, once again, a 125 delegates are up for grabs. And it may have a significant impact on the fight for the Democratic nomination.
TEXT: KEY RACE ALERT.
BLITZER: All right, we have a Key Race Alert right now.
Too early to call, in the State of Michigan, a 125 delegates at stake, Biden and Sanders, too early to call. Right now, 44 percent of the vote is actually and all the polling places in Michigan have closed.
And Biden is ahead, 78,000 votes ahead of Bernie Sanders, 52.8 percent to 41.7 percent. So far, with 44 percent of the vote is in, looking good for Joe Biden right now.
David Chalian, what are you looking for, when you see the exit polls?
TEXT: CNN EXIT POLL.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well now we can do a little bit of a deeper dive and look how voters are splitting between Biden and Sanders in certain categories. Let's look at age, Wolf, in Michigan.
65 and older, senior citizens in Michigan, they make up about 23 percent of the electorate, roughly a quarter of the electorate today in Michigan, Biden wins them by 50 points, 73 percent to Sanders 23 percent, huge group for Joe Biden.
Well let's flip that, and you see the Sanders' success with young voters. Here is 18 to 29 year olds. They make up about 15 percent of the electorate.
So, it's a smaller group, but Sanders actually wins them by a bigger margin than Biden won seniors, 82 percent to Biden's 15 percent. This is still very much on Joe Biden's to-do list, young voters, it's playing out of Michigan.
Take a look at voters who want a candidate who can bring needed change. Those voters looking for a change agent, 40 percent of the electorate in Michigan today, Sanders wins them big time, 61 percent to Biden's 35 percent, Sanders winning the change argument with Michigan voters today, and those voters looking for somebody who can unite the country.
It's a smaller slice of the pie, 29 percent, but Biden wins them by a bigger margin, 82 percent of unite voters, voters looking for a uniter go to Biden, only 15 percent for Sanders, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, take a look at this, John. 50 percent of the vote, half of the vote in Michigan is now in. His lead is building, 90,000 votes ahead, 53.1 percent to 41.8 percent, Biden has a significant lead.
KING: Biden has a significant lead, and where he has that lead is just as significant, because 91,000 votes now, up to 51 percent, you're talking about how does Bernie Sanders make up 90,000 votes?
Well you need population centers to do that. And if you look at the open areas on the map where we have no votes, most of them are pretty small rural areas. So, where do we have votes?
The largest population center, Wayne County, this is Detroit, the suburbs around it, about 10 points right there, up to 47 percent.
So, for Bernie Sanders to make up 90,000 votes, this would be the easiest place to do it, except Joe Biden is winning, and winning quite comfortably by almost 20,000 votes right now.
Again, I'm going to be a bit of a broken record tonight. But the key to Biden's success, since the big win in South Carolina is win where you find Black voters in the urban areas, and then win as you move out into the suburbs. That's exactly what's happening again in the State of Michigan.
The question was could he translate what happened largely across the South, Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, even in Texas, after South Carolina, could he translate that, if you move up into the Industrial Midwest?
The answer so far in Michigan is yes, yes, and yes, as you stretch it out. So, Bernie Sanders, how did he pull this off four years ago?
Well he pulled it off, number one, by winning big in college towns. Ann Arbor is in here, the University of Michigan, but it's very close, only 18 percent. We'll see if those numbers change.
But Senator Sanders not winning in these areas by as big a margin as he did four years ago. And the math starts to add up when you go into the Joe Biden doing so well in the population centers.
Again, in the smaller cities, Sanders winning in Grand Rapids, Kent County, like he did four years ago, but only by 4 points or 5 points there, if you round that up, 5 points there, only 8 percent in, we'll see again.
If you're Senator Sanders, you're looking "Where can I get votes? Can I engineer a comeback?" This is one place to keep an eye on because we're only at 8 percent.
But you move down here from Grand Rapids to Kalamazoo, up to 94 percent here, this is where the problem because if you're Senator Sanders, you're winning, but not by much. This is an area where four years ago, he had a bigger cushion, a much bigger cushion against Hillary Clinton.
So, you're looking at the map, Sanders won four years ago, in a very close race. He is underperforming in the places that he won last time. And Joe Biden is just doing an impressive job in the Detroit suburbs.
One other thing I just want to point out, not a lot of people, but look at the Upper Peninsula, you see all that Biden blue, still a lot of votes to count up there, we see that Biden blue, go back in time, almost all of that was Sanders, four years ago.
So Bernie Sanders, whether you're looking at this by county, whether you're looking at by constituency, underperforming where he was in the race four years ago, and the significance here, we're up to 52 percent now, 92,000 vote lead in the State of Michigan.
This is the biggest prize of the night in terms of delegates. It's also, Wolf, the biggest prize of the night in terms of the psychology, two candidates, slugging it out, saying they're the best candidate to go up against Donald Trump.
Remember, this is a very painful memory for Democrats in 2016. Donald Trump won it.
[21:05:00]
So, the Democrat - for Democratic bragging rights tonight, if you're Joe Biden, and you can win Michigan by 10 points, or more, that would give you not only a lot of delegates, it would give you bragging rights, the psychology, if this could be a turning point in the Democratic race.
BLITZER: Yes, 52 percent of the vote is in. He's up by 94,000 votes.
KING: Yes.
BLITZER: Jeff Zeleny, you've spent a lot of time in Michigan. You're looking - you've been looking very closely at the state. What do you see?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it's only been a week since Michael Bloomberg and Elizabeth Warren were in this race.
And while Elizabeth Warren has not endorsed, I was just talking to a Michigan Adviser for the Biden Campaign, who tells me this. Elizabeth Warren hasn't endorsed anyone in this race. But her supporters are going with Biden. We can see that now. No place, more clear than in Oakland County that John was talking
about. I spent some time there on Sunday, and ran into so many Bloomberg former supporters, and Warren former supporters, who said it was time to support Joe Biden.
So, he is benefiting tremendously from an organization that's already on the ground there, the Bloomberg campaign, and the Warren campaign. So, that is what is helping Joe Biden win this, you know, a stronger majority so far in Oakland County, which is critical around Detroit.
So, that's what the Biden Campaign is counting on tonight. They're certainly thanking Elizabeth Warren. Even though she's not officially endorsed, they say her supporters have, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes. And an important point indeed. And I think, John, the Biden Campaign, they could be grateful for several of the former candidates who have endorsed Biden.
KING: Well there's no question. Elizabeth Warren, of course, has not. But the other rally around Biden.
Again, Amy Klobuchar, Pete Buttigieg, Beto O'Rourke, who dropped out previously, all of them doing that in Texas, then Biden going on to winning Amy Klobuchar's Minnesota, to winning, he never set foot there, to winning the states, let's go back and just look at that.
I mean 10 of the 14 on super - on Super Tuesday a week ago, that was the big springboard for Biden. And the thing is he's replicating it again tonight. And to the point Jeff - Jeff's made, again, almost a 100,000 votes.
BLITZER: Yes.
KING: We're up to 53 percent now.
Simple math, it just gets hard to overcome a lead that big, even though you still got a long way to go, in part because in Wayne County, the biggest population center, Biden now stretching this out. This was closer earlier. We're up to almost half of the vote there, and Biden with a 12-point lead.
But Jeff was just talking about Oakland. You need to win in Detroit, and then you move out into the suburbs here, right, closer blue-collar workers here, more affluent workers as you move out.
Look at this. Look at this. You're looking at 18, 19 points right there. Bernie Sanders was much closer, in much closer competition with these pop - in the populous suburbs, biggest population centers are your cities, then you move out into the suburbs. This is where the competition is right here. Four years ago, it was
close. Tonight, it is not. And that is the difference. And again, we have seen this in state after state after state, where Joe Biden's formula for success is "Win in the cities, and then move it out into the suburbs."
And you're seeing it not only around Detroit, and in Macomb County here, 10-point-plus lead there. You move over to Oakland County, it's even bigger. We're seeing it not only in Detroit, but you're also seeing it if you come up to the Lansing area here.
You bring this out here, Ingham County here, a 11 points here, and you move around, up - up in here, Joe Biden just in - anywhere, it's the same formula to success, win in the cities, stretch it out into the suburbs, including, again, in the Lansing area here, two Democratic House seats now that were flipped.
They were Republican House seats. The seats, the places, that made Nancy Pelosi, Speaker, are coming out to vote for Joe Biden. We're seeing that in these two districts in Michigan tonight.
We saw it last Tuesday, in the Dallas area, in the Oklahoma City area. This has been a pattern throughout, win in the cities, win in the suburbs, win in the flip districts that made Nancy Pelosi, Speaker, those are the voters who have decided, as if a switch flipped last week, "We want Joe Biden."
BLITZER: And Biden spent some time in Michigan. But Bernie Sanders spent a lot of time in Michigan, canceled some campaigning in Mississippi--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --to go to Michigan, and - and, right now, it's not--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --looking very good for him.
KING: And so, you cancel in Mississippi. Joe Biden was going to win Mississippi anyway. They'll hold challenge for Bernie Sanders was trying to move the margins.
So, you skip Mississippi, and look what you get as a result. Again, Joe Biden was going to win anyway. But Joe Biden looks like he's going to get 80 percent or more of the delegates out of the State of Mississippi. It's 36 delegates.
They're allocated by Statewide and then Congressional district. But if you're winning 80 percent of the vote, you see no Bernie Sanders. That means you're going to get Statewide and the Congressional districts, so big win for Joe Biden there.
Move up the map, right now, a big win for Joe Biden in the State of Missouri. He's at 50 percent and 51 percent, and you go up. And then, Wolf, you move up to Michigan, the lead is well, again, the map filling in just as Joe Biden would like.
BLITZER: And John, we have a major projection right now.
TEXT: CNN PROJECTION.
BLITZER: And take a look at this. CNN now projects Joe Biden is the winner in Michigan, a 125 delegates
are at stake, Joe Biden is the Democratic presidential primary winner in Michigan, so far tonight. He has won Michigan, Mississippi, and Missouri, three important states, very significant wins for the former Vice President.
Jake and Dana, this is what Biden was really hoping for. So far, he's getting what he hoped for.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER: Yes, and we've been talking all night, and last week, about whether or not Bernie Sanders is able to expand his base of support, expand those who are voting for him.
And, once again, we have a bad sign. This is the worst sign of the night. Bernie Sanders won the Michigan primary four years ago. It was a narrow victory. But it was a surprise.
[21:10:00]
Hillary Clinton leading by double-digits in polling, four years ago, Bernie Sanders won with something like 49.5 percent of the vote, Hillary Clinton with something like 48.5 percent of the vote, as with Missouri, which he narrowly lost last time, Bernie Sanders is actually, his base is going the wrong way. He's losing voters.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
TAPPER: Voters who went for him last time are going for Joe Biden in this case.
BASH: And the flip side of this is how well Joe Biden is doing. I mean, Joe Biden, if you look at how well he's doing, in the map behind us, across the country.
TAPPER: That's a lot of dark blue.
BASH: Yes, I mean obviously we don't know about California yet. And Bernie Sanders did well in the Southwest. But look at the South. Look at - at the Midwest right now, a lot of dark blue. Dark blue represents Joe Biden.
And, in particular, where you're talking about a state like Michigan, to your point about Bernie Sanders pulling out a surprise there, four years ago, he - he didn't only want to do that this time. He needed to do that.
And Joe Biden, it's not necessarily a surprise. But Joe Biden obviously has - is pulling out a pretty big win.
And what that shows is it just how the map looks broadly, but it also shows the kind of voter that Joe Biden is now able to attract. It looks like, across the board, he is doing really, really well.
And if you're the Biden Campaign, you're looking at that, not only as a plus to get the nomination, but looking ahead to a general election, where you have a state like Michigan, where the Clinton campaign maybe should have seen the warning signs, considering - considering how poorly she did, and among some of those key demographics in Michigan, that ended up going to - to Donald Trump.
And Joe Biden can look at that right now, from the opposite point of view, "Hey, I'm strong here."
TAPPER: Yes, White working-class voters again--
BASH: Precisely.
TAPPER: --Bernie Sanders duking it out for them and it looks like Joe Biden doing well, winning that fight, at least in Michigan. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, David Chalian is with us.
TEXT: CNN DELEGATE TRACKER.
BLITZER: David, already with this big win, it's a very important win for the former Vice President in Michigan. He's going to get more delegates clearly, and - and this is going to be a big disappointment for Bernie Sanders.
CHALIAN: Yes, this is not the night so far that Bernie Sanders was hoping for at all. If he was looking for a turnaround, it's not happening yet.
Look at this. A 125 delegates at stake in Michigan, the biggest prize on the board tonight, Wolf, as you know, we've already been able to assign 36 of those delegates, 20 to Joe Biden, 16 to Bernie Sanders, 89 remain unallocated right now.
But, as you said, we were able to project this race. If - if Biden has a substantial victory here, he may be able to get more into his delegate lead. And look, just off the bat, he's already netted four delegates.
I know that sounds small. But as you're adding, through all these states, Missouri, Mississippi, Michigan, of the night, Joe Biden is adding to his delegate lead.
BLITZER: So, let's take a look at delegates to date right now with these three wins that we've not projected for Joe Biden.
CHALIAN: Plus the whole season thus far, right?
BLITZER: Right.
CHALIAN: The four, at least eight (ph) Super Tuesday, you need 1,991 delegates to win the nomination, Wolf. Now we have, Joe Biden, look at this, at 676 delegates, Bernie Sanders is at 579. That's 97 delegate lead for Joe Biden.
He is about to break into triple-digit territory of a lead, and perhaps have over a 100 delegate lead. That is substantial. That is hard for Bernie Sanders to make up with the way these contests are going tonight. So, 676 to 579, Joe Biden is adding to his delegate lead.
BLITZER: So, does that mean Biden is on track to win the nomination right now? Are both of them potentially still on track?
CHALIAN: Well let's take a look. This is exactly a chart that helps tell that story. So, look here again. This, right, this column here, oh man, OK, the first column here, 676 to 579, as I just mentioned, that's the current delegates.
Now I want to show you this next column. What you see here is what they've won so far. Joe Biden has won 49.8 percent of the delegates allocated so far. Bernie Sanders, as a percentage, is seven points behind him. He's won 42.6 percent of the delegates so far.
That's what they've won. What do they need to get to that magic number of 1,991? Look at that third column here.
50.2 percent is what Joe Biden needs of the remaining delegates, Wolf, to get to 1,991. Look at what Bernie Sanders needs. He needs almost 54 percent, 53.9 percent. He has a tougher hill to climb.
Now, we should note, go back to that previous column, neither of them have won more than they need, as a percentage, if you will. So, they are still underperforming where they need to be to get to 1,991.
But look at the Joe Biden number. Four - look at this. 49.8 percent, OK, to 50.2 percent of what he needs. I want you to look at that compared to Bernie Sanders.
[21:15:00]
Bernie Sanders has won 42.6 percent. It's like an 11 percent differential here. He needs 53.9 percent. He is significantly underperforming, right now, in the delegate race of what he needs to be doing to be the Democratic nominee.
Joe Biden is getting close to being right on track with his performance, and what he needs. This is significant and tells the story of why Joe Biden, Wolf, is on the march to the nomination at the moment, and Bernie Sanders is not.
BLITZER: Yes, Bernie Sanders worked hard from Michigan, not happening for him tonight. Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Wolf, thanks very much. A - really a major win for - for Vice President Biden. Governor?
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, (D) FORMER MICHIGAN GOVERNOR, BIDEN SUPPORTER: A huge win!
Yes, I'm so happy about it. And I think it tells you a little bit, if you look forward, about what it means about the general election, the kinds of voters that he was able to get in this primary.
You know, it is true that Sanders previously had done so well in Macomb County, and with White non-college educated voters, and in conservative parts of Michigan.
It looks like Joe Biden is running the table, even getting close in a County like Washington County, which is a - which is the County where University of Michigan has, and Bernie Sanders had a massive rally there.
So, it tells you, going forward, that the - there's a huge chance that he can put together a Coalition like the Obama Coalition. He's got more work to do in some pockets, obviously with Hispanics, with young people.
But I just think that this is a great signal going forward that people are ready to put somebody in there, who's going to beat Trump.
COOPER: Guv?
TERRY MCAULIFFE, BIDEN SUPPORTER: Yes, let me say. This is a very bad night for Donald Trump. He is watching the news returns.
GRANHOLM: Bad night for Donald Trump.
MCAULIFFE: And what Joe Biden has been able to build, this Coalition, which I've been talking about for a long time, not only the African- American community, he won women by 20 points tonight in Michigan.
GRANHOLM: Women, women, tell it.
MCAULIFFE: He - tell it. He won--
GRANHOLM: Come on, Terry.
MCAULIFFE: Yes, yes, he won women in Virginia by over 60 percent. That is a warning sign to Donald Trump. The biggest games we had after 2016, to win those House of Representative seats, are the places there, people are showing up to vote in these primaries.
GRANHOLM: Exactly.
MCAULIFFE: Joe Biden is bringing them out. He is building that Coalition. I'm so excited. I mean we now have the United States Senate in play. Why did Steve Bullock decide to run in Montana? Because he thought with Joe Biden at the top of the ticket--
GRANHOLM: Exactly.
MCAULIFFE: --we're going to move it. So, we, as Democrats--
GRANHOLM: And--
DR. ABDUL EL-SAYED, SANDERS SUPPORTER: I just want to make a point.
MCAULIFFE: --got to come together.
COOPER: Yes.
GRANHOLM: Yes. MCAULIFFE: We got to take on Trump. We got to keep our focus on Trump.
GRANHOLM: And those suburban women, men--
MCAULIFFE: And keep ourselves--
GRANHOLM: --I - I think a lot of more--
COOPER: Doctor, I mean, you're obviously saying--
MCAULIFFE: Oh, go ahead.
GRANHOLM: Yes, go ahead.
MCAULIFFE: Come on, do it, go ahead.
COOPER: --you're a Sanders supporter. Is there a--
GRANHOLM: I'm sorry.
EL-SAYED: Look, I--
COOPER: Is there a path ahead?
MCAULIFFE: Excited.
EL-SAYED: Obviously, obviously--
(CROSSTALK)
EL-SAYED: --obviously disappointing night. I mean the campaign pulled out all the stops, brought in the Reverend Jesse Jackson, which was a huge win.
But I will say, in order to build that kind of Coalition, let us not forget that the ideas that Bernie has been running on for the past four years-plus, these ideas are ascendant, government healthcare, fundamentally changing our economy, and the reason why they're so ascendant is because these are the ideas that young people are voting for.
And I will say, if we want to beat Donald Trump, in 2020, we've got to think about how it is that we embrace the ethos of these ideas, how we speak to the pain that a lot of young people are facing.
GRANHOLM: Totally.
COOPER: Yes.
EL-SAYED: How we speak to the challenges that - that are facing us. The fact that we've got climate change barreling down on us, and the fact that too many people, like think about the context of Coronavirus, too many people are worried about what will happen if they get sick or a loved one gets sick.
COOPER: But I mean just for viewers who are watching at home, and does this race continue between them? Does--
EL-SAYED: I mean I think like--
COOPER: --I mean I've--
EL-SAYED: --like every candidacy, we've - we've got to give the candidate a chance to make their own best decision. And I - there are a lot of good reasons why Bernie Sanders might want to stay in.
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And if you look - if you look - if you look at these--
(CROSSTALK)
EL-SAYED: --able to make the contrast with - with Joe Biden on the debate stage. And I think, no, he's been really, really strong in these debates. There's ample reason why, and there are more states left to go. But this is a big win.
COOPER: No, right, but I mean--
AXELROD: Bernie - Bernie Sanders was - Bernie Sanders was on television, on Sunday, and he said, "I'm not a masochist." He said, "I will not stay in this race if there's not a path."
You look at the four states, big states that are going to vote next week, almost 600 delegates, and he didn't win any of them. Most of them he lost by significant margins four years ago, and he's clearly not improving on his performance from four years ago.
So, look, I've been on the winning side, and the losing side of campaigns. It is a painful thing to have to reconcile with these numbers. And I think it's important how this ends, in terms of rallying those young voters, who feel - who are going to feel a little bit disenfranchised by this.
But if you're making--
EL-SAYED: Right.
AXELROD: --a judgment based on the numbers, it clearly, the numbers are--
COOPER: Gloria?
AXELROD: --dramatically bad for Bernie Sanders at this point.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well and if you look at the story from four years ago, Michigan was the place that kind of resurrected Bernie Sanders, and started him on a real trajectory. And there was a sense he could - he could stop the Clinton Train, God he was going to stop the Clinton Train.
And then, now--
VAN JONES, FORMER OBAMA ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL: Yes. BORGER: --here we are.
JONES: Not so much.
BORGER: And Bernie Sanders is stuck.
[21:20:00]
It wasn't so much that Michigan was going to be his firewall, but it was going to be kind of the backstop, in case things didn't go so well on Super Tuesday, and things didn't go so well on Super Tuesday. But it turned out that he couldn't put together that kind of Coalition that he really--
JONES: And I think--
BORGER: --needed.
And I think, it may not be the end, it may be the beginning of the end, but Bernie Sanders is a realist, and want, and has said, to his credit, over and over and over again, he wants to unite the Party because he wants to defeat Donald Trump.
And if you look at the results in Michigan, where Joe Biden, you know, was winning with - he's still not winning with young voters, let me - let me point that out, as Abdul was saying, did not win with young voters.
JONES: He's getting creamed by Sanders.
BORGER: Getting creamed by young voters. But the - the places where he's had problem with - with White non-college educated voters doing - doing well with those voters, so you have to wonder whether this is a signal.
JONES: Yes, let me just say - say I - I think this is a very dangerous moment for the Democratic Party. You have now an insurgency that's about to be defeated. What do you do with the people that you defeat?
There was a hope on the part of a lot of young people they had a champion. You got young people who are graduating with a quarter million dollars in debt, you got young people in it with a lot of pain, and they had a champion.
And that they thought that they were going to be able to surround the divided Establishment with their movement, crush that divided Establishment, and move forward. Instead, the Establishment united, and stopped them. Now, what do you do?
Last time Bernie Sanders got beaten, there was an assumption that all those people were just going to fall in line, and vote against Trump, and there was not enough care for the concern and the pain of his base.
I think, tonight, there's going to be a lot of crowing, a lot of relief on the part of the Establishment, but keep it temperate, and turn, turn to those people, and say, "We want to be your champion."
MCAULIFFE: No.
JONES: If you don't do that, you're going to have a pyrrhic victory in there.
MCAULIFFE: I - I--
COOPER: There - there were a lot of Sanders supporters in key states who did not end up voting for Hillary Clinton.
MCAULIFFE: Yes.
JONES: It's exactly my point.
BORGER: Right, right.
ANDREW YANG, (D) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, BIDEN SUPPORTER: I - I agree. Biden should pivot to the general, and reach out to young people, in particular, who supported Bernie, and let them - let them know, "I'm going to be your candidate," and that he understands the fact that we have left the next generation a real house of cards.
BORGER: Yes.
YANG: In terms of a path forward. College being 250 percent more expensive, most jobs are temp gig or contract jobs that don't have healthcare benefits or a path forward.
Joe has not done an excellent job of making it seem like he relates to young people in those situations. So, he or his surrogates have to make that case very, very quickly that he's going to be their candidate too.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, POLITICO: 1,000 percent.
BORGER: You know, at a rally the other night, he had some hecklers. And they were either Sanders' supporters or and he - or he thought they were, and people were trying to take them out of the - of the stadium.
And he said, "No, no, no, no, no, first of all, I'm not Donald Trump. We don't - we don't do that around here." But secondly, he said, "I need you. I need you to come into the Party."
JONES: Yes.
BORGER: He needs to do more of that in a more direct way, not just off-handed like.
AXELROD: But it's not just - it's not just those gestures though.
BORGER: Right.
AXELROD: It is - it is understanding that these are - these kids are driven by ideals.
BORGER: Yes, and ideas.
AXELROD: I mean they - they have a - they have a vision of a country in which you can get an education without taking on this ton of debt with it, where you can get healthcare as a right, where inequality is not a growing reality that no one seeks to address.
They - they have real ideals. And - and the important thing is not just to embrace them, but to embrace the ideals.
BARRON-LOPEZ: I think--
AXELROD: You may not embrace Bernie's - Bernie Sanders' recipe for how to deal with them. But you need to at least address--
GRANHOLM: But this is - this is a moment that could do that.
COOPER: Laura? Laura, care for?
AXELROD: --the spirit of their concerns.
BARRON-LOPEZ: On - on some of the numbers that are coming out of Michigan, I think there's two interesting points, which is that White men shifted.
They supported Sanders in Michigan, in 2016, by 62 percent. And now, they've moved, Biden has slightly edged him out, in certain places. He still has a little bit of the edges right went into Michigan, lost them in Missouri.
But I think that from 2016 to now there was an anti-Clinton sentiment that appeared to really help Sanders.
He hasn't been able to deliver young voters in the way that he wanted to, and his campaign has acknowledged that. And they, in recent - in the last week said that they were trying to do more outreach to older voters.
Congressman Khanna, who's a Co-Chair of Sanders Campaign, actually said that "I think that we need to distinguish more, our attacks on the Establishment mean attacks on, quote, special interests, on insurance companies, and the like."
GRANHOLM: Yes, yes.
BARRON-LOPEZ: "And praise where the Democratic Party has helped make great strides."
So, it'll be interesting to see if Sanders stays in beyond tonight, and there's no indication that he won't, so far. How he tries to change that message, heading in to states--
COOPER: Yes.
BARRON-LOPEZ: --like Arizona and Florida. COOPER: Joe Biden scoring three impressive wins so far tonight, adding to the string of victories. We're standing by to hear from the former Vice President. That's coming up after a break.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We're standing by to hear from the former Vice President, Joe Biden. He's getting ready to speak. We'll, of course, have live coverage of that.
David Chalian, he's the winner in Mississippi, Missouri, and Michigan, three important states, and he clearly - clearly has done very impressively.
CHALIAN: Hugely important, we have three more states to go, of course, but hugely important states for Joe Biden. Take a look. I want to show you, Wolf, where we are in the vote counting, and what that may mean for delegates.
So, take a look first in Michigan. You know there are 125 delegates at stake. You see Joe Biden, 53.1 percent of the vote. He's got a 116,000, almost 117,000 vote lead over Bernie Sanders, who's at 40.7 percent.
Now remember, you need to be above 15 percent to collect delegates Statewide, and above 15 percent to collect Congressional district based delegates. Obviously, Bernie Sanders is well above the 15 percent there.
But that 13 percentage point spread, it means that Joe Biden with 55 percent of the vote in, and remember, this is going to change as the vote comes in, is going to get the lion's share of those 125 delegates. They're not going to split evenly, if you're winning 53-40.
Take a look at a different picture, more substantial for Joe Biden, over here in Missouri, 68 delegates at stake. Joe Biden at 57.1 percent, 26,000 votes ahead of Bernie Sanders, who is at 28.4 percent.
[21:30:00]
Now, it's only a 11 percent of the vote that is in so far in Missouri, we've projected, of course. But it's not as big of a delegate prize as Michigan. But look at that. That's a 30-point margin for Joe Biden in Missouri. He's going to get a - the lion's share of that 68 delegate prize.
BLITZER: What about Mississippi? Has - Biden has also won in Mississippi.
CHALIAN: So, take a look here in Mississippi. This is the most dramatic example at all - of all. Look at this.
80.1 percent, with 15 percent of the vote in, in Mississippi, that 31,000 vote lead over Bernie Sanders has Sanders down at 15.4 percent, Wolf, he is just barely above the viability threshold to earn any of the statewide delegates out of Mississippi.
So far, we've only awarded delegates in Mississippi to Joe Biden because of precisely this. We have to see if Bernie Sanders will get any of the 36 delegates out of Mississippi, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, thanks very much. You know, John, as we look at this, impressive so far, still three more states to go.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: But so far, three and 0 for Biden.
KING: Well let's put an exclamation point on three more states to go, especially if you're a Bernie Sanders supporter, or working in the Sanders Campaign, he simply now must, must win Washington State.
It's the second biggest prize of the night. And we're still waiting to get votes there. Obviously, as we go West, Bernie Sanders is being shut out at the moment. This is a prize he won four years ago. He very much needs to win it here.
BLITZER: 80 - 89 delegates in Washington State.
KING: 89 delegates there. Yes, these are smaller delegate prizes. But if you're Bernie Sanders, and you're seeing Joe Biden stretch out that lead, you need wins, and you need delegates.
20 of them in Idaho, Bernie Sanders needs to win in Idaho, and then North Dakota, only 14 delegates at stake.
But if you're in the Bernie Sanders Campaign, or if at home, you're a Bernie Sanders supporter, you're watching what's happening in Mississippi, Missouri, and Michigan, it's a painful night, a very painful night.
In terms of the margins, and the math, you definitely need these three contests. So, we have a ways to go in the night. We've had elections that swinged before.
We'll see if Senator Sanders, who has a history, remember, go back four years ago, has a history, doing very well out in the West, and in the plain states. So history, if Bernie Sanders can repeat it, maybe he can at least ease some of the pain with some wins out this way.
And it is painful, Wolf. It's just - there's no other way to put it. Sanders had a big upset in Michigan four years ago. Joe Biden with a - just shy of a 13-point lead at the moment, a 117,000 votes and change, 56 percent of the vote in.
Just look at the map, want to turn this off here, you see the Congressional district lines I had over that. I'll come back to that in a minute. But just look at four years ago, see all the Sanders light blue up here, Sanders light blue throughout the central part of the state.
Come forward now, it is almost all Biden blue. This is just a stunning turnaround in the State of Michigan. Joe Biden going into the state that Bernie Sanders won four years ago.
Bernie Sanders says, "He's Wall Street. He's corporate. He's Establishment. He's not for you, the blue-collar guy," the colors tell the story, the voters of Michigan just deciding.
Again, Wayne County, now up to 17 percent of the vote, 13-point lead there, little - just little shy of that 12 and change in the city, and the suburbs right around Detroit, Macomb County, a 10-point win, blue- collar battleground right here, the place that gave us the name in the study of Reagan Democrats, Oakland County, more over to the suburbs, and even bigger win there.
Just the formula for success that we saw at Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, down into Texas, repeating itself, in the State of Michigan tonight.
Missouri used to be a battleground state in presidential politics, now a Red state, come general elections, for the most part, and we'll see if anything changes this year. That's most unlikely.
But just take a look again. Take a look again, one County of Bernie Sanders. And this matters. This matters when you get to the delegates. Not only is Joe Biden winning big Statewide, but he's winning with the population centers.
Our Democrats award more delegates in the areas where you have a higher African-American population, in St. Louis City, Biden winning there, move out to St. Louis County, again, look what happens when you go out to the suburbs, just look what happens as you start moving toward the suburbs, the Biden numbers go up.
You move out even more, let's come out here to St. Charles County. St. Charles County is a place that Bernie Sanders actually won four years ago. More affluent suburban area outside of St. Louis, Bernie Sanders won it four years ago, not this time.
Joe Biden's suburban success has been key as you go through the map. And then, if you come just down, pull it back out, to the other win tonight, down here in Mississippi, again, you could see just surrounded, just surrounded, and that is the blowout.
And again, Bernie Sanders, after 2016, spent a lot of time courting Black voters, a lot of time courting Latino voters. If you look to the Western parts of the country, Nevada and California, it has worked among Latinos. Sanders has been performing better among Latinos.
Among African-Americans, Wolf, you just look at this map right there, this is the heart and soul of the Democratic electorate, African- American voters in the Democratic primaries. That is all Biden blue. That's a big night.
BLITZER: I'm just curious. How much better is Joe Biden doing in Missouri and Michigan compared to how Hillary Clinton did against Bernie Sanders four years ago?
KING: It's an excellent point because you get into - now we have, essentially, what we had in 2016, a two-candidate race. We have that now in 2020 that just about everybody else has dropped out.
Tulsi Gabbard's still effectively in the race, but she's not polling well anywhere.
So, look at this, look at the margin here, all right? 18 points right there, this was a very close State in the margin, in the decimals, in the decimals. So, a very close race, four years ago, not close at all, not close at all now, in the State of Missouri.
[21:35:00]
Move up to Michigan, this was again, this is where we are right now, 12-point lead and change for Joe Biden, nearly 120,000 votes right there, four years ago, about as close as you can get, right there.
And so, that's the statement that Joe Biden is making tonight. One, you're winning by big margins. Number two, that gets you more delegates.
Number three, if you pull out the map, and you come forward to 2020, we all know, come November, the Campaign is going to be fought here, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, states that either Trump flipped, or were very close, when you go back four years ago.
Michigan, we all remember very well, bring it up. You go back. You bring it up here. This is the one of the reasons Trump is President, right? And the weaknesses we saw in Hillary Clinton, and Bernie Sanders' win four years ago in Michigan started to show us Hillary Clinton's weaknesses with those--
BLITZER: By 10,704 votes.
KING: 10 - 10,000 votes, right?
And so, then you move over here, to Minnesota. 44,000 votes there, the Trump campaign thinks, believes it can put, interesting to see a lot of the Trump campaign calculations based on the economy of a few weeks ago, and the Coronavirus, and all the turmoil we shall see.
But Joe Biden can now make the case, to Democrats, in the Industrial Heartland, where Trump won the Presidency, "I'm the more competitive candidate."
BLITZER: Right.
KING: Doesn't necessarily translate to the general election. But that's the argument he can make to Democrats right now.
BLITZER: Key battleground states.
Anderson, back to you.
COOPER: Wolf, John, thanks very much.
Andrew Yang, I see you've been writing on your paper a lot. We haven't heard from you a little bit. You haven't - where do you see the race right now? Where do you see this going for Joe Biden?
YANG: I believe that Joe Biden will be the Democratic nominee. And I've always said I'm going to support whoever the nominee is. So, I hereby, am endorsing Joe Biden to be not just the nominee for the Democratic Party, but the next President of the United States.
And I say this, having supported Bernie Sanders in 2016. Bernie was an inspiration for me, inspired my run. But the math says Joe is our prohibitive nominee. We need to bring the Party together. We need to start working on defeating Donald Trump in the fall.
I've had many personal conversations with Joe about the impact of the fourth Industrial Revolution on the middle-class. I believe that he's the right man for the job to help us not just defeat Donald Trump but govern the country in the years ahead.
BORGER: And the question is, I guess I have for you, is what does he need to do to bring the Yang Gang and the Sanders' folks--
COOPER: Yes, I mean--
BORGER: --to him?
COOPER: And what do you say to your supporters who - who might--
BORGER: Yes.
COOPER: --support Sanders still?
YANG: What I'd say is that we need to start doing the work of improving Americans' lives in the ground because too many Americans have seen their way of life disintegrate over the last number of years.
And Bernie has been calling out those problems and tapping in to the frustration in the right way.
And so, if Joe says this is going to be return to business as usual, he's in danger of losing many of the young people that came out for Bernie that supported my campaign.
He has to show that look, we know that this economy is not working for many, many Americans, millions of Americans who feel left behind, and you can't just say we're going to swing the pendulum back to the Obama-Biden years.
We have to actually start doing the work that activated people to vote for Donald Trump that activated people to get out for Bernie Sanders.
I believe Joe is open to that message. His heart's in the right place. He's a really, really patriotic public servant, decent man. He wants to do right by the American people.
To me, a lot of it's about getting real solutions in place that more and more Americans feel like we'll actually improve their day-to-day lives. AXELROD: And--
COOPER: Have you had - have you had conversations with the Biden Campaign about an endorsement?
YANG: I have. Joe called me last week. You know, we had a really great conversation. And it was hard to say "No" to Joe, at that time.
But I have such admiration and respect for Bernie, what he's meant to so many Americans, I think Bernie has called out the real problems in a very powerful and necessary way.
So, I wanted to let the democratic process play out. And I believe it has. At this point, you can see very clearly that Biden is building a delegate lead that's only going to grow in the days ahead. And so, we need to come together, as a Party, starting tonight.
COOPER: What would you say that to - to Sanders' supporters who, you know, obviously are going to be unhappy if Sanders drops out of the race? For you, as it is, as Senator Sanders has said himself, defeating Donald Trump, trumps all of that.
YANG: I would say I get it, and that I believe that Joe gets it too, even though you may not feel that in the same way. I get the frustration. I get the desire for a revolution. I get the fact that it seems like our institutions are failing us right and left. I get all of that. It's why I ran.
But we have to defeat Donald Trump in order to make progress on the climate, on any of these problems, in a bigger way, and you have to believe that Bernie, and Elizabeth, and I, and other people will have a voice in the Biden Administration to start solving these problems.
AXELROD: This is - this is - what Andrew's saying is the dynamic you're going to see set in, in the next few days. They're the - the person who looms largest in this Democratic primary process has been Donald Trump.
[21:40:00]
And a lot of Democrats have been searching for the candidate they think has the best opportunity to beat Trump. And Biden emerged as that candidate, when Bloomberg faded away, and so on.
And now, the verdict is - is clear. The danger is not to - is not to continue the primary, if you're Biden, in your own head, and make the turn to the general election, and give people a sense of enlistment in this cause of restoring decency, and the other themes that he is so comfortable.
He was great in South Carolina on this. He needs to strike that tone tonight more than a triumphal tone about winning the primary.
COOPER: That - that's what you want to hear tonight?
AXELROD: Yes. BORGER: Yes. And I think he needs to draw a distinction with Donald Trump. He has to take a turn, and start acting like a President, because now people will start comparing him to - to the person who is in the Oval Office.
And that will be, for example, on how you - how you would handle the Coronavirus.
If you had been in the Oval Office, would you have gotten rid of the Office that would have been in charge of this in 2018, if you had been President? Would there be more testing now? What would you be doing, right now, if you were President of the United States?
I think you have to give people an opportunity now to look at you as President and compare you to Donald Trump.
AXELROD: But I would not do that.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Well not necessarily you do.
COOPER: Van, go ahead.
BORGER: You can do both.
JONES: Hey, listen.
BORGER: You can do both.
JONES: I - I think his main appeal, Biden, is that he wants to bring the country together, and heal it.
BORGER: Yes.
JONES: And I'll tell you, when you got a pandemic going on, somebody who's a healer, has a lot of appeal, but the first thing you got to do is bring this Party together.
If you want bring America together, your first test of that is can you bring this Party together?
And I'm going to tell you right now, as just happy as a lot of people are up here tonight, there's a lot of people whose - whose hopes have been crushed tonight. I don't think a lot of people get it. There are people who are - they don't know how they're going to make it.
They're in the gig economy. This whole pandemic is throwing them completely out of work. They - they can't get - they can't go from - from point A to point B, and they don't see the passion yet from Joe Biden.
MCAULIFFE: Yes.
JONES: For their pain.
MCAULIFFE: If I can--
JONES: They don't trust him yet to fight--
COOPER: Let him finish, let him finish.
JONES: --until the last dog barks for them. And they trust Bernie Sanders to do it.
If Bernie's going to be ushered off the stage tonight, and - and Biden's going to stand up there, he's got to pull those people close to him, and the empathy that he has, for everybody else, he's got to have for these Bernie kids.
COOPER: We got to take a break when we hear more, and we're waiting for Joe Biden to speak. We'll be right back.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And we're waiting to hear from Vice President Joe Biden. He is going to be speaking in Philadelphia. We'll obviously bring that you to live any moment on what has been a very good night, a decisive night for him.
Governor Granholm, just before the break, Van Jones was talking about what Biden needs to do in terms of reaching out to - to the pain and stepping into the pain of many supporters of - of Sanders, who are not only heartbroken if that there's not a path forward for him, but also just the issues that he has championed.
GRANHOLM: Right. I mean Van is so great about speaking their pain. And I really appreciate that, and Andrew, for you to say the same thing about yours, and Abdul, for you to say it as well.
And I just hope that all of the people who have been Biden supporters, like Terry and I, are aware of this, hear this, see this, and recognize that there will be a period of grief, no doubt, that will ensue, and that there has to be a really overt way of reaching out to young.
I mean I think of my family. You know, my kids are all Sanders kids. And I have no doubt that they are feeling really angry, and frustrated, and don't know exactly how to channel that yet.
So, for all Biden supporters, I think it's really important for us to take it upon ourselves, to reach out, and say, "We want you in our movement to help to shape this"--
COOPER: We should point out--
GRANHOLM: --"election."
COOPER: --there's still a debate on--
GRANHOLM: Right. He's not done yet. Right, of course-- COOPER: --on Sunday between - between these two.
GRANHOLM: --that candidacy is not dead. Yes.
COOPER: What should Sanders do in that? I mean how--
MCAULIFFE: Well, first of all, Senator Sanders is not out of this race.
GRANHOLM: Right, exactly.
MCAULIFFE: So, nobody should assume he is. You know, I remember 1992, Paul Tsongas got out of the presidential race. He was out of the race and he ended up winning a primary a couple weeks later. I mean he's not out, and no one should assume.
But let's assume he does get out. I agree with Jennifer. We, you know, Biden has to have a campaign that reaches out. This is not the first time. We've all been in races. You win some, you lose some. You got to reach out to the other side. You got to bring them in.
I remember 2008. I was Chairman of Hillary's campaign. The day after the election, Barack Obama called Hillary, called myself, we met with him immediately. Then, the three of us actually did a huge rally, if you remember, in Washington. There are practical ways that campaigns will come together.
The other thing is how do you reach out to the folks who you got to bring in for the general election? But I will say this for, you know, everyone say that "He's got to do this, he's got to do this," which he should, if he does end up getting this nomination.
It has been very impressive what Joe Biden has done.
JONES: Agree.
MCAULIFFE: This is the fastest nomination we have seen--
JONES: Agree.
COOPER: Well.
MCAULIFFE: --since 2004, much quicker than Barack Obama, much quicker than Hillary Clinton, he coalesced a lot of people.
Now, this is about addition. But folks, we should understand what Joe Biden has been actually able to put together. This is a very quick nominating process.
COOPER: Doctor?
EL-SAYED: I do, you know, I want to - I want to provide some context for this. I was in Grand Rapids for the rally with Bernie Sanders, and - and Reverend Jesse Jackson.
And a young man came up to me, he said, "Look, you know, I've taken $100,000 in debt. My parents just lost their jobs. And I don't know what I'm going to do with healthcare because I was covered through them."
That's the reality in which so many people in our country are facing. And if we're not serious about solutions to those problems, if we can't speak to their pain, with a level of empathy, and a level of respect, I worry a lot about what it means to beat Donald Trump.
Now, we lost Michigan by 10,000 votes in 2020. And, in some part, it was because there was this assumption that, on the Left, we did not see that pain.
[21:50:00]
We've got an opportunity to come together, and say, "We understand and appreciate what that looks like. We have real tangible solutions to solving it. And a vote for us is a vote for a future, not the past."
Because for a lot of these young people, that past was the moment in which they saw the crack showing on - on the cliff of where we were headed.
So, the last point that I'll just make on this is that, right now, we have an opportunity, whatever happens in the next week or so, we have an opportunity to choose what we will take forward, to take on Donald Trump.
I think everybody recognizes the existential threat that he poses to our democratic norms. I mean, we see it with Coronavirus every single day.
But if we're more focused on beating a Bernie Sanders or beating down the will of young people, right, and telling them, "See, we were right all along," I worry that the focus will be this primary--
YANG: Right.
EL-SAYED: --rather than the general.
YANG: Yes.
BORGER: Well, and don't forget, in the debate coming up, they're going to have Bernie Sanders taking on Joe Biden, and he's been doing it very frontally these days. He hasn't been just saying "Oh, I'd like to beat him."
He's been talking about issues on - on - upon which they disagreed, not only healthcare, but he's talking about his - his vote on the Iraq War. He's been talking about trade. He's been talking about Social Security.
And he and Sanders, of all things, have gotten into a Twitter war over the question of whether, I know that sounds weird but, two septuagenarians, but they've been getting into a Twitter war over who - Sanders saying that or intimating that Biden would take away your Social Security, and Biden saying "Let's get real Bernie. I'm never going to do that," that's going to continue for a while until it doesn't anymore.
And maybe the math, as Andrew points out, is - is there. But Sanders, I believe, is going to continue until he decides, as he said, he's not a masochist, and doesn't want to do. So, I think part of it is up to Bernie Sanders as well, and the way he decides to proceed going forward.
AXELROD: You know, I just think back to 2008 and, you know, everybody has kind of a romanticized idea of what happened back then. That was a hell of a tussle.
BORGER: Right.
MCAULIFFE: You bet.
AXELROD: And it went on for quite a while.
MCAULIFFE: Until June.
AXELROD: And there were some--
GRANHOLM: Go on.
AXELROD: really - real blows landed.
MCAULIFFE: Yes.
AXELROD: Some of them on some of the same issues that these guys are debating about like the war in Iraq. And - and yet, there was a coming together, I think that the - the longer the period there is to - to effectuate that.
And let me - let me suggest that I think that one person who may be important in this process is AOC.
BORGER: Yes.
AXELROD: She - she has emerged as a really important figure among these young Americans, who are yearning for real serious solutions to these problems. And yet, she's shown herself to be a very pragmatic yet principled figure.
COOPER: We've - we've also never seen a situation like this, certainly modern times, in terms of a potential pandemic influencing--
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: --the next couple of months in a way that's kind of hard to even imagine.
JONES: Yes.
COOPER: I mean obviously there's the difference on healthcare between Sanders and - and Biden. But if, you know, if hospitals are overwhelmed, if, you know, the military--
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: --is called in, if people are being--
BORGER: There's been rallies.
COOPER: --you know, triaged in school gymnasiums on respirators or whatever - however bad it may get--
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: --and let's hope it doesn't.
YANG: Nothing makes you appreciate a functional government like a global pandemic.
BORGER: Right.
AXELROD: Yes, I've always said that.
YANG: Yes, no, that's in--
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: No, you're right.
COOPER: I mean, none of us - there's very few people who have seen what happens when a society, you know, has the potential to really burst at the seams--
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: --in--
YANG: No. Joe Biden's argument has been about sort of a return to moral normalcy. But it's also going to begin to look like a return to competence because Trump and the Republicans--
AXELROD: Yes, yes, yes.
YANG: --have been running the government in sort of an--
BORGER: Right.
YANG: --anti-government frame, which is not what you want when you're dealing with a health crisis.
And we all know, when Joe becomes our President, he's going to bring back many of the Obama alums who are really, really competent, and technocratic. And that - there's going to be real hunger for that in the days to come among many, many Americans, if the Coronavirus crisis--
GRANHOLM: Yes.
YANG: --continues to grow. BORGER: Well it's also an issue of trust in government because we've been hearing for the last couple of years everything about how you shouldn't trust your government, how you shouldn't trust the CIA--
GRANHOLM: Right.
BORGER: --how you shouldn't trust the FBI. And on--
GRANHOLM: The Deep State.
BORGER: --and on and on.
And now, people are looking to the government to help. And post 9/11 - before 9/11, trust in government was low. After 9/11, if I recall, trust in government went up because people saw first responders--
EL-SAYED: Depends on who you were.
BORGER: --who the first responders - well who - well--
EL-SAYED: You know, in my community, trust in government didn't go up.
BORGER: Well but--
EL-SAYED: Because we were being surveilled and assumed to be terrorists.
BORGER: But--
EL-SAYED: And the point that I'm making here is that this idea about moral normalcy, right, it hasn't always benefited everybody, right?
[21:55:00]
We've got to be serious about the fact that we have one of the most unequal moments and one of the most unequal high-income societies in the world. And fixing that means taking on, not going back, but taking on those challenges, and being full-throated about what the solutions look like.
MCAULIFFE: But--
EL-SAYED: And I just I think it's important to remember that.
COOPER: Let - let Gloria finish here the - her thought.
BORGER: Well my, you know, my point was, and - and I - that the polls did go up, and maybe - maybe it was pockets it - that in which it didn't, and I will - I will grant you that.
But people saw the way first responders reacted, running into the flames, and trust in government, and trust in your, you know, your state officials, and your local officials, really skyrocketed because people had to turn to them, to provide services. And that is going to be part--
JONES: Can I talk about--
BORGER: --of the debate.
JONES: Just one thing to add is that, you know, you talked about the impact on the election, I think, you mean in terms of like the issues set. But there's also physically how are people going to go to the polls could become an issue as well.
And I think that one of the things that - that Democrats should jump out on, and I think, you know, Biden has a chance tonight, we - people need to be able to vote from home.
One of the reasons why you didn't have as much disruption in places like Washington State is that people were able to vote from home. So, even though you've got a big pandemic happening in Washington State, the election proceeded because people could vote from home.
That's not true in all the other states. If we're going to be in a pandemic environment, in 2020, everybody should be able to vote from home.
AXELROD: Yes.
GRANHOLM: And that's not just a Democratic issue. That's Republican and Democratic.
JONES: Yes.
GRANHOLM: That's just an issue of safety.
AXELROD: I think I'm having--
(CROSSTALK)
MCAULIFFE: You know why--
GRANHOLM: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: --I'd love to see it in all 50 states.
GRANHOLM: All 50.
MCAULIFFE: You know why we don't have it in 50 states.
AXELROD: You know from a--
MCAULIFFE: It's just voter suppressions, holding folks down. We got to make it easier for people to vote.
GRANHOLM: You are right.
MCAULIFFE: You saw in Texas the other night, people waited seven hours in line to go vote. It's disgraceful.
AXELROD: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: This is the greatest democracy in the world.
AXELROD: As a strategic matter, when you look at a candidacy, you look at the comparative advantages of your candidate, as they match up with the weaknesses of the person that candidate is running against.
And when you look at Joe Biden, the most salient qualities that he has are empathy, you know, decency, humanity, connection.
BORGER: Trust, yes.
AXELROD: And that is a real deficit for Donald Trump. You could argue that that's the one that bothers people the most.
And the other one is that the - the result of tweets, and tantrums, and feuds, is this chaos that reigns around him. And now, the price of that chaos is becoming more apparent. And I think that is a real problem for him in this election.
So, yes, I think Biden has to stress competence, but I also think he needs to stress what is the - the qualities that people most identify with him, which is his just the thoroughgoing humanity.
COOPER: And Laura?
BARRON-LOPEZ: I just wanted to go back to the debate amongst Democrats, about how Biden could potentially win over Sanders' voters. His campaign has noticed, of course, that - that Sanders does well with young voters, but also that Sanders has done very well so far with Latino voters.
And Biden's Campaign is starting to invest more money in the Latino community. We're about to head to States, Arizona and Florida, where there's big Latino populations there.
And - and so, he's realizing that in order to win over some of those voters, either to make a dent in Sanders, or also to try to bring them over to his Coalition, he has to speak to them more directly because that is a weakness for Biden in that area. He has not been talking to them.
And again, it comes down to policy because Latinos in states like California, in Nevada, also in Arizona, they are very distrustful of the government because of deportations. They saw that under the Obama- Biden Administration.
So, it'll be interesting to see how he's able to bring them into the fold, and speak to them more directly.
EL-SAYED: I can piggyback off of Laura's point.
I think - I think there's a really important thing to recognize here. I have no doubt Joe Biden's a good man. He's got decency, and empathy in droves, and you love the picture with the aviators and the ice cream, right?
But the question is can he see outside of his own experience? Can he appreciate that the game has changed tremendously for a lot of
folks, and the things that are on the line, the Givens that used to be the case, when he was a younger man, in the moments when he was in his prime, those Givens aren't really there for a lot of folks anymore.
Back in his day, you could go to a college, get a great university education, and in the summers--
YANG: I--
EL-SAYED: --you could make back all the money that you needed to be--
YANG: I'm just going to say--
EL-SAYED: --able to pay your tuition.
YANG: --I've had conversations with Joe. I think he gets it like it's one of the things that--
(CROSSTALK)
YANG: --that I found compelling is that, you know, there's Joe, and then when you talk to him in - in private, he understands that we've set up like a really rough path for many, many people that - that is different than when he was growing up.
MCAULIFFE: I'll tell you, the one thing I love about Joe Biden, he listens. I mean, you can sit with him. I've spent lot of time with him recently. He will listen. He will act on the things you want. So, he doesn't go in predisposed against anything. So, he's open to suggestions.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Terry, anyone who sits with you listens.
MCAULIFFE: Yes?
EL-SAYED: The message - the message has to respond.
MCAULIFFE: What's that, Gloria?
BORGER: It's that anyone who sits with you listens.
EL-SAYED: I just want to see the message reflect that, right?
COOPER: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: I got it, OK.
EL-SAYED: The message, to embraces that, and engages that, because, you know, when you - when you call, you point to Kamala Harris, and Cory Booker, and say, "You're the future"--
BORGER: Yes.
EL-SAYED: --those folks are both in their 50s, right?
There's a very different future that's many years younger. And if you're not engaging them, and saying, "Hey look," right, "you need a seat at this table too," because your experience is fundamentally different than even those who are 20 years older than you, I just feel like it's incomplete.
