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CNN Live Event/Special
U.S. Coronavirus Death Toll Reaches 105; 5,700+ Cases. San Francisco Under A Shelter In A Place Order. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired March 17, 2020 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:06]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: The last polling places in Florida are about to close, as well as in Illinois. Look at this.
We have a CNN major projection right now. Joe Biden is the winner in the Democratic presidential primary in Florida, where 219 delegates are at stake, the biggest prize of the night. Joe Biden, the winner in Florida.
In Illinois, too early to call right now. Some of the areas in Cook County have an extra hour to vote. No projection in Illinois right now. We are 155 delegates are at stake, the second biggest prize of the night.
Let's take a look at all of these states that Biden has won, so far. Let's put it up on the screen right now. You see 17 states now that we include Florida as well.
I'll read them to you -- Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Idaho, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, and Washington, Washington state. You see all those states -- 17 states going to Biden right now.
It's a very impressive win projected in Florida for the former vice president.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Yes, two points. One is, this is the third time Joe Biden has run for president. He never won a primary until South Carolina, and now he is just rocking them up. I mean, it's like watching the hustler in that classic Paul Newman movie.
The second point is, we don't know how many people in Florida voted today. But this is a blowout. This is a huge, huge victory for the former vice president. And, again, we have to know how many people voted today, but the fact that we are in the middle of a huge crisis, an unprecedented pandemic in the United States, where the treasury secretary is talking about possible 20 percent unemployment, where everything is going on, people are sheltering in places.
And there is this turn out for Joe Biden, says something about why people are turning out for Joe Biden, because this is precisely the kind of thing that he was talking about doing the job to control the country and protect the country, to bring out a turn to normalcy. This is not a time when you're dealing with a pandemic, Dana, that you
are necessarily thinking about let's reinvent the entire economic model in the United States, however justified it may be or not. This is a time where people just want to be able to go to the restaurant or have their kids go to school.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's such a huge thing. The other thing is that Florida has 219. So, it is the biggest prize of the night when it comes to delegates.
Look, the Sanders campaign knew, even before everything happened with coronavirus, before Joe Biden did extremely well last Tuesday, this week the map was not great for Bernie Sanders. But this is beyond not great. I mean, this is the fact that we can call the state of Florida so quickly, especially with what's going on in the world, that says a lot.
And, you know, Sanders and Biden are standing not far from where we are sitting right now on Sunday night and having a really robust discussion about coronavirus, but also the issues that divide them on where they want to take the party and the country. And this is the beginning of a night where there is going to be a lot of soul searching inside the Sanders campaign, inside the party as a whole, as to whether or not in any situation, this is a primary that should go on, and this is a fight that should go on, especially given where we are with the coronavirus.
I mean, the conversations were already happening. Bernie Sanders also signaled last week, last Wednesday after his thumping on Tuesday that he was heading that way. We will see what happens after tonight.
TAPPER: Yes, and just one thing, we'll come back to this in a second, but I just want to make the point. There are a lot of people saying there shouldn't have been primaries today. And there are five states that have already delayed primaries. We will see in the coming months of holding these primary elections in Florida and Arizona and Illinois was a bad idea or not. Ohio canceled there's.
Wolf?
BLITZER: Very interesting.
David Chalian, we're taking a close look now, a blowout win for the former vice president in Florida. We've projected he has won. The all important delegate count is now exploded.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: That's right, Wolf. You may remember, David Axelrod mentioned before -- Joe Biden comes in with 150 lead in the delegate race, and then he made double that tonight.
Let me show you how he may do that. Take a look at Florida, 219 delegates are at stake tonight in the state of Florida, OK? Right now, just off the bat, we have been able to allocate 59 of them to Joe Biden. He has won 59 accordingly, 12 to Bernie Sanders.
That's a 47 delegate lead, that's the net lead, the take that Biden walks away with.
[20:05:01]
We still have 148 delegates to go. So, imagine if he collects delegates at this rate. He can net gain more than 100 delegates just out of Florida, nearly doubling his lead.
So, that's why winning big like this in a delegate rich state matters so much.
Let's take a look at delegates to date. You need 1,991 delegates to win the nomination. Now Joe Biden is closing in on that 4 digit figure, gaining close. He is at 912. He is 200 delegates ahead right now ahead of Bernie Sanders.
BLITZER: The way they award delegates, proportional, that may be a league that is insurmountable?
CHALIAN: I would call this a near insurmountable lead at this point. We have never seen anyone come from a delegate deficit of 200 and actually overtake the leader. That has not happened.
BLITZER: Give us a sense of what they have won so far and what each would need to do to win the race.
CHALIAN: This is a critical thing to watch. Let me show you. Right, now to date, Joe Biden has won 52.8 percent of the delegates allocated to date.
Bernie Sanders, as a presented, has won 41.2 percent. So, you see, just as a percentage, Joe Biden has 11 points higher of a delegate haul than does Bernie Sanders.
But this is what I want to show you. What does it mean about what they need from hereon out and this is critical. Look at Joe Biden's number. He now only needs 47.9 percent of the remaining delegates, Wolf. That means he is winning delegates at a rate faster and higher than he needs to for the remainder.
Bernie Sanders has a mountain to climb. He needs to win 56.8 percent of the remaining delegates. I just showed you, he has only won 41 percent of them. He is way behind the pace of delegate winning that he needs to be at if he is going to be competitive in this race, Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. David, thank you.
John, give us the big picture of the delegates right now -- the all- important delegate count.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Number one, what David is describing to you is where we are right now, if these numbers hold up. Joe Biden will stretch it out even more. David is being conservative, which is smart, as these things come in, you try to do it out. But here's where we are right now, as David says, it has never been done, can you overcome a 200-delegate lead? It's never been done, mathematically possible, politically improbable when you look at the Democratic Party rules and the margin by which Joe Biden is winning.
So, let's go back in time a little bit and play this out, 912 to 712 right now and we're still allocating delegates tonight. Let's go back in time. This is where we were after the first 4 contests, sleepy February, one at a time -- Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina. Joe Biden at 54. Bernie Sanders actually had a slight lead.
But the Super Tuesday, this is number three, have been very good for Biden. This is where we started the night. After February, Biden is slightly behind. He came in tonight with 153 delegate lead, you see a lot more Biden wall in the wall there, and then obviously what's playing out right now, Florida 200-plus delegates at stake. Illinois and Arizona to follow tonight.
And so, we come back to where we are as we at speak, 200 right now and we are watching the results in Florida come in. I can switch and go back to those. We'll come back out and take a look at them, as you watch these come in, by every indication as we watch the results come in here in Florida, you see the map filling in right now. That number in Florida, in Florida, that number is likely to even grow as we continue to count and allocate delegates when you have a 61 to 23 percent margin.
Again, I'm going to show you something here. We cannot do the math yet. But you see these lines? What you are seeing is the outlines of the congressional districts, right? We don't know vote by congressional districts yet, but you see the counties in these districts overwhelmingly for Biden.
A 200-delegate lead right now is likely to stretch as we continue to count votes in Florida. Turn it off and pull it back out, you see 912 to 712, 200 right now. It's going to grow. It's going to grow out of the state of Florida. And the question is, can Bernie do better in Illinois, better out west in Arizona to narrow it as the night goes on? Or is it going to continue to stretch? Because you're looking at the 200 delegate now, if that continues to build throughout the night, it doesn't mean senator Sanders will get out, but the math gets overwhelming.
BLITZER: And, of course, he knows that Hillary Clinton beat him in both Illinois and Arizona four years ago.
KING: Right, if you look -- look, we're going to have to wait, because Illinois is keeping the polls open. We would normally be closed, but they are keeping them up. And we have to wait an hour. But we know what happened here, let's bring out Illinois.
We do know what happened here 4 years ago. It was closer. This will be worth watching. Sanders did well in the Midwest last time. Remember, he won Michigan last time, not so this time. This will be a test. This will be a test.
And again, it's not just the candidates who understand where we. The voters know this. Yes, they know they're dealing with the coronavirus, but they also they're at inflection point, a tipping point potentially, in the Democratic race, these Democratic voters. [20:10:01]
Do they want this race prolonged? Or do the Democratic voters want to deliver a statement for Biden tonight? It was pretty close in Illinois four years ago. We'll see if it is tonight.
This would be critical for Senator Sanders, even if he didn't win Illinois tonight. To do something like this gives you a roughly even split of the delegates. When you get -- when you come out of that, then you are saying going over to Missouri, when you see this, if Joe Biden can do this again, what he did in Missouri on the other Super Tuesday over in Illinois, that's a whole different story.
The margins matter in these races. Let's just see. Some votes popped in there somewhere. Some votes did pop in there somewhere. So, somebody has reported votes. This is just a small percentage of votes.
One county has reported some votes in Illinois. That's why those numbers popped up. Polls are still open, that's why we won't get a big bump until later. When you see the Sanders blue in the map, it's encouraging if you're a Sanders supporters, but that's tiny.
BLITZER: What does it say that he is clearly getting a huge win, Biden, in Florida, a swing state, potentially, in a general election. Let's not forget the President Trump carried Florida four years ago.
KING: Right. And he has moved his residency to Florida since. He goes down to Palm Beach, in Mar-a-Lago quite a bit.
Just one quick point as we consider the question. You cannot necessarily read a big win into a general election. Joe Biden, for example, won South Carolina, the primary. I don't think many Democrats who think South Carolina is going to be competitive in the general election.
Joe Biden winning across the South. Many of these states will not be competitive in the general election. But Florida always is. And so, the fact that Joe Biden is winning. The fact that turnout in the middle of the coronavirus is at least good and maybe even better than good is encouraging for Joe Biden.
The fact that he can tell Democratic voters, I'm about to win every county in Florida, that's a huge deal. So, we go back in time in the Democratic primary, Hillary Clinton won big. This is one of the most competitive states in American politics. It always has been.
Bush v. Gore, we can go back in time as far as you want to go, always a very close, 112,000 votes, 113,000 if you round that up for Donald Trump. This was a big part of the Trump map, a big part of election night remember in 2016 when we start to count these votes, that is where you start to see Donald Trump actually does have the pieces to put together 270-plus, but it was close.
The third party candidates had an impact. That's a big question we don't know the answer to this year. But a lot of people say, look, at the governor's races of late, look at the Senate races of late, Florida has been trending red. That's the general belief in politics. I would just say this, anyway, because of volatility and coronavirus both from the public health standpoint and in economics standpoint, this state is going to be hard hit by coronavirus, because of the tourism industry, the shipping industry, the cruise line industry, Disneyland, Disneyworld, I'm sorry, in Florida.
So, always close, fascinating state in politics, and for sad reasons right now, I think there is even more volatility as we look to what will happen this year. But Joe Biden, any Democrat will try to compete there. Trump is hoping to keep this in his electoral basket. Joe Biden is going to look at this and say I was going to compete anyway if I'm the nominee, I feel a little better about it.
BLITZER: Eighty percent of the vote in Florida, the Democratic presidential primary is now, and look at this, 61.1 percent for Biden, 22.6 percent.
Compare that to where it was four years ago in the Democratic primary.
KING: So, you come over to the race four years ago, Biden's margin, not quite as big. Not quite as big, Hillary Clinton and 64 percent. Senator Sanders at 33 percent. She got 1.1 million votes.
Remember that as she come back to the other map. Yes, overwhelming, Sanders did win, a little more than a half dozen in the northern part of the state. Right now, we see Sanders leading nowhere. Sanders at 22 percent. Sanders at 33 percent.
Remember, early voting, there are other candidates here. Mike Bloomberg spent a lot of money on TV ads before he dropped. Out other candidates may have received votes in early voting in the state of Florida, so that's one reason.
So, Sanders percentage is actually down this year from 4 years ago. And that affects the delegate map, that affects when you go through those congressional districts, how many of those do you get? Number one.
And so, Joe Biden, it was a two-way race. Hillary Clinton's number was higher, but the fact that so many votes were cast for other candidates before this is a two-way race, that is a strong number.
BLITZER: Looks like numbers are coming in from the Panhandle right now. Polling is closed in the whole state.
KING: And so, move into Pensacola, almost everywhere we look, high fifties or sixties. These are more -- tend to be Democratic voters turning out. David Chalian noted, a less liberal electorate, if you will, than some of the other states. If you just poll this out a little it, this part of Florida across the top tends to be considered more southern, if you, will in character on voting, in culture and in voting. So, you start moving across this part of the state here and you have 62 percent for Joe Biden, 57 percent for Joe Biden.
Smaller counties, but you see it move across, this all adds up, 61 percent for Joe Biden as we go through the panhandle, 65 percent for Joe Biden. Think about down here. You're talking about industries along the cost, whether it's tourism, whether it's fishing, whether it's shipping, these are areas that have spent the last couple of weeks, if not the last couple of months understanding the impact of the coronavirus coming to them economically and will deal with it even more so.
[20:15:09]
And again, four years ago, there was a smattering of Sanders wins up here, especially in the panhandle, the northern part of the state, and over here in the panhandle is where Sanders did have limited success, limited success four years ago. As the numbers come in so far, it looks like, and we have seen this before, in the neighbors, again, in the neighbors, it's all Biden blue.
BLITZER: Let's take a look -- yes, let's take Illinois, some voters are actually coming in from Illinois, even though Cook County polling places are still open.
KING: All right. We just showed you a few moments ago when it was Sanders blue because of this county, so let's move up here in Kane County. Again, we are talking a small number of votes here. It is about 4 percent. Kane County, the state population, Biden, 64 percent to 28 percent there.
If you pull it out, and obviously, you just made the point, this is where -- this is where the bulk of your Democratic votes are. You could get a lead in Rockford, places to watch, places to watch, blue collar cities. This is where Sanders has tried to make the point, union workers, industrial workers, a lot of whom have had their cities and towns change so much of the last 20 years as the economy changes.
This is where Sanders has said, if we go back in time, let's just go back and take a peek. We go back in time, he had some success in this part of the state. Sanders, small town, an industrial workers' town, Sanders says, I'm your guy. This will be a key test.
Joe Biden proved the last Super Tuesday, he performs better than Hillary Clinton in a lot of these blue-collar towns. He has been performing. The test tonight is does he, when these votes come in, do you see Bernie Sanders winning in Rockford or do you see Joe Biden winning in Rockford?
BLITZER: Yes.
KING: And again, as Sanders tries to make his decision, how long do you stay in with an overwhelming delegate lead? How you are doing compared to last time matters, but you mentioned, polls are kept open. This is where the bulk of the vote comes from. Chicago is right here.
And one more point, Wolf, the suburbs, the Cook County suburbs, move up here to Lake County, these are the voters who have been driving Biden since the switch flipped, it's been the urban areas and the close-in suburbs. We have to wait until we see those, we see the margins here very early on count in Illinois.
BLITZER: We'll watch that closely.
Anderson, over to you.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Wolf, John, thanks very much.
Let's talk about the path ahead here because Alexandra is raising, you know, concerns about the health of people going out voting. That's only going to at least for the foreseeable future increase.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.
COOPER: So, if there is no, you know, path ahead, actually electoral model, you know, delegate math ahead for Senator Sanders, part of his calculation has got to be his own health, in terms of campaigning with other people, and also the health of people potentially voting and does he continue to remain in the race.
AXELROD: Well, also, and it also has to be his expressed priority to defeat President Trump, whether it serves that purpose for him to stay in the race. Look, we know how this race is going to end now. We just don't know when.
And Bernie Sanders will have a lot to say about that and he needs to consider these factors, because these primaries are going to be stretched out in ways that we even don't know. We don't know when it's going to be.
One of the reason these governors when today is because they didn't think it would get better for a long time and it made sense to try and get these elections in now. So, the question for Senator Sanders is, does it benefit the project of defeating President Trump for him to stay in this race, simply to make a statement? Or is it time to consolidate around Biden?
And he's going to -- I think there will be an awful lot of discussion about that in the next few days. I'm sure, Alex, there'll be discussion on the either side as well.
ALEXANDRA ROJAS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think there will be. I would say that I don't think it's a statement that Senator Sanders campaign is much more than a presidential campaign. It represents dozens of grassroots organizations, thousands of activists and organizers, Latinos, young people, millions of people that right now during this crisis, even before, it felt like they were in a crisis, right, because here in America, even before this pandemic it, we have 60 percent of Americans that can't perform $800 emergency bill if that happened tomorrow, right?
We have small business owners right now in the midst of the pandemic that aren't sure if they will have the support they need.
COOPER: But what does that mean moving forward? I mean, they have hurt feelings but if --
(CROSSTALK) ROJAS: What I think that means right now is that millennials just -- we want Donald Trump to be defeated too. I think there is nobody here that doest not want Trump to be defeated. And I think the question that I think Joe Biden as the presumptive nominee who needs to focus on also unifying the party, is the fact that millennials are going through their second recession right now. You have to be able to appeal to them and you have to be able to --
COOPER: Governor, what is the best way to get those voters?
TERRY MCAULIFFE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think what Biden has shown is this is been a multiethnic, multiracial coalition. He's got to show it's multigenerational.
And I think he has to reach out to young people. He has to do it immediately. You have to give Bernie Sanders tremendous credit. I've been involved in this a long time, this is by far the most progressive platform that we have seen in all of the primaries.
(CROSSTALK)
MCAULIFFE: Sanders has led on all these issues.
COOPER: We've got to continue this later. We've got have to break in.
As we await more results, we see developments on the coronavirus crisis, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
COOPER: We're going to have more of our primary coverage in a moment. Right now, we are following disturbing new milestones of the coronavirus emergency. The death toll in the United States climb into 105 as we have been on air. The number of cases now surpassing 5,700 as the pandemic spreads from coast to coast.
Now, tonight, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo told CNN there will not be a shelter in place order in New York City despite Mayor Bill de Blasio's suggestion earlier today it was possible. Again, according to the governor, there will be no sheltering in place order in New York City.
Also tonight, Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin warning that the pandemic could drive up unemployment to the United States to 20 percent unless dramatic action is taken quickly.
Meanwhile, the Food and Drug Administration is reassuring Americans there are no nationwide food shortages, although some stores may temporarily have low supplies. People are being urged to only buy enough food and essentials for the week ahead.
Also tonight, we learn the NBA superstar Kevin Durant is one of four Brooklyn Net players to test positive to coronavirus.
I want to check with our correspondents. First, we go to Shimon Prokupecz in New York.
[20:25:01]
Shimon, you're outside the Barclay Center. What's the latest there?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CORRESPONDEN: Yes, the latest here outside the Barclays Center, as you said, Anderson, Kevin Durant, a big superstar in the NBA, he has tested positive, three other nets players that play here behind me at the Barclays Center.
Now, Kevin Durant has not played this season. He has been injured since last year. He's not played. But he was in L.A. with the team during their last game against the Lakers, and then ever since then he was out and about in L.A. and just today announcing that he has tested positive, along with three other players.
Now, all of this, of course, coming as New York City and state are really on edge. The city in particularly over whether or not we're going to have some kind of a quarantine or shelter in place. The mayor today suggesting, telling city residents that they should be prepared for some kind of shelter in place.
It is not entirely clear what that means. As you said, Anderson, the governor tonight knocking all of that down, saying he does not want that. He is not going to allow for people to be confined in their homes. All along, the governor has said, he does not want people to stay in their homes, to be confined to their homes under some kind of rule, some kind of a law that city enacts, that the state enacts.
Obviously, they want people to stay home. They don't want people on the street. But today, the mayor is saying they are contemplating some kind of a shelter in place. But, again, it's not clear. The governor knocking all of that down tonight.
So, we'll see, we have yet to hear from what the mayor has to say, we will probably hear from him tomorrow. A lot of confusion over these two things, but for now, the governor saying that that is not happening. There will not be shelter in place.
COOPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thanks very much.
Let me go to San Francisco now and Dan Simon, who's standing by for us.
Dan, there is a shelter in place in San Francisco. I guess -- I mean, tell us what that means. I see people going out for runs behind you, walks, people strolling along riding bikes.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's, right Anderson. We are in downtown San Francisco. You can see the bay behind me. That's the Bay Bridge, which by the, way normally would be bumper-to-bumper traffic. It has less traffic, because what I will show you right here.
Sometimes a simple newspaper headline says it all. This is what the Bay Area woke up to this morning courtesy of "The San Francisco Chronicle". Stay at home. Six Bay Area counties ordered nearly 7 million to shelter in place.
Now, does this look like a shelter in place to you? Not exactly, because here we, are downtown. You see a number of people out and about, people walking, people getting exercise.
But we should tell you, that is perfectly acceptable under this order. People are allowed to go out, walk their dogs, ride their bikes, etc. What they are saying is, for the most, part they want you to stay at home. If there is not an essential thing for you to be doing, stay at home.
But you can go to the grocery store. You can go to the pharmacy, if you need to fill up your gas tank, you can do that. As for the workforce, the police department, fire department, all operating as usual. You do have public transportation.
Now, this is not a mandatory kind of thing, as we have alluded to. What the police department is saying is they want voluntary compliance. However, this is an order. So, they can issue a citation. They can issue a misdemeanor if they think it is necessary. Obviously, they say they don't want to do that.
Anderson, let's send it back to you.
COOPER: All right. Appreciate that. Thanks.
I want to go to Ryan Young who's in Willowbrook, Illinois, just outside Chicago.
Ryan, what's going on there?
RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, we're in DuPage County, which is about 30 miles outside the city. And today, we learned 22 new cases here, at a senior facility. We know how difficult that can be. From what we're told, 18 of the patients are residents and four are the caregivers.
Of course, we have seen this with devastating effect in Washington. Just in Seattle last week where we know they're trying to make sure people who are elderly stay away from this virus, not sure how people in this facility may have come down with the virus. So far, we are told, once again, 18 new patients here and, of course, four of their caregivers.
The governor is very strong in his conversation this afternoon, saying the government needs to step up and give them a way to test these folks. They are very worried about seniors, as you can understand. They already have things in place to stop people from coming and visiting the older ones so far. But that hasn't stopped this virus from spreading.
Of course, that is the big concern at this point. But 22 new cases here, Anderson, in DuPage County, which is about 30 miles outside of Chicago.
COOPER: So disturbing. We wish them the best. We'll have more from Ryan Young and all our correspondents throughout the evening.
Let's go back to, Jake.
TAPPER: Thanks, Anderson.
Joining me now is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
Sanjay, you saw Dan Simon -- he's (ph) from San Francisco. The mayor put out a shelter in place morning. There you see San Francisco's interpretation. There you see San Francisco's interpretation, this were live pictures coming in of a shelter in place, complete with jogging and shelter in place, complete with jogging and cycling, strolling, and we saw earlier roller blading. Now, the mayor, when I spoke with her earlier today, said that you were allowed to take a walk if you needed to or walk your dog. But I -- look, I'm no medical professional, but I don't know how effective this as a shelter in place could possibly be.
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Look, Jake, I'm with you on this. I mean I still get the impression despite what we're hearing from the White House and the distinct change in tone which has been good and necessary, I think -- that change in tone. I still really get the impression people in many places aren't taking this seriously. And I think that's a problem. I mean we have seen what has happened in places around the world where this has not been taken seriously.
I'm not sure what the right answer is, Jake, but clearly, you know, what we're seeing even in a place where people are being told to shelter in place, if that's what it looks like, then obviously in places where those sorts of orders or recommendations are not out there, I mean it's got to be worse. The thing that we keep hearing over and over again, in order -- that this inflection point, trying to decrease the number of cases and make sure they don't turn into a situation like they've seen in Italy, is people have to social distance. They're not doing it, Jake.
I mean I'm worried about this now, and I think, again, there's been a great change in tone and more specific recommendations coming from the government. But what needs to happen in this country is we need to break the cycle of transmission of this virus, and it doesn't look like that's happening right now. I'm worried these numbers -- they keep going up, and they're going to go up because of the testing, but I think they're going to go up as well because this virus continues to spread.
TAPPER: And, look, I mean the mayor said to me that people are allowed if they need to go out and get a, you know, go for a walk and get a breath of fresh air, they're allowed to as long as they --
GUPTA: Sure.
TAPPER: -- social distance. But that's not what we just saw. We saw people going for jogs, people going about their life as if it's normal. We're being told by the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institutes of Health that this is not normal. First of all, we see a whole bunch of people here who are not distancing. They're holding hands and walking down the street and, you know, normally I'd say bravo. But this is -- this is actually kind of enraging. The people of San Francisco -- or I shouldn't say the people, but many people in San Francisco have clearly not gotten the message.
GUPTA: Right. And, you know, look, I don't relish the decisions that have to get made here and the recommendations or maybe even mandates that need to get made. But all I can say is, you know, this virus is spreading around the country. And, Jake, you've known me a long time, I'm not someone who likes to be hyperbolic or shout these things from the roof. It's not my nature. But we know what needs to be done.
The government knows what needs to be done. Public health official knows what needs to be done. It's not happening right now.
Again, I applaud the change in tone. I applaud the seriousness with which this is being taken at the White House and a lot of the comments that came from the White House. But, you know, we're not seeing it translate into the action that is necessary right now. And I just -- I just want to be really clear on this because we've been talking about this almost since the beginning of the year. We've been talking about the testing. We've been talking about the need for hospital preparedness. We've been talking about the need for social distancing. And, you know, I don't think any of those things have been done yet, Jake. We're still way behind on testing. It's not at all clear to me that hospitals are prepared for what's about to happen.
And I think given that and the different sorts of, you know, patchwork of recommendations around the country, people just aren't taking this seriously. They're going out and buying things, sometimes even hoarding things for their home, but they don't understand, I think, fundamentally what is happening with this virus right now. Maybe because the numbers are so far behind, maybe because we're behind the curve. I don't know what it is. I've never seen anything quite like this. I don't think anybody has, but we are -- we're not doing what needs to be done right now.
TAPPER: Let me ask you also because we really are getting mixed message. I say that as a member of the public as well as a member of the media because while you have President Trump yesterday and today clearly stating what the CDC is recommending, 15 days of social distancing.
GUPTA: Yes.
TAPPER: Avoiding groups, staying six feet away from people, staying inside as much as possible, if you're old especially, staying inside as much as possible, not going to bars, not going to restaurants, not going to nightclubs. All of that is happening. Meanwhile, Arizona, Illinois, Florida had elections today.
GUPTA: Yes.
TAPPER: A lot of people thought that was a bad idea. And you see pictures from Florida where there is spring break as if they're either making a teenage movie from the '80s down there.
[20:35:02]
There is not the clear signal that everyone needs to abide by this. There's kind of a message of, we're telling you need to do this, but other people are doing that and other people are doing that and, you know, I mean what is somebody supposed to think?
GUPTA: I think what the message is that a lot of people are getting is that this is no big deal. I mean we don't -- it's not really here. It's not really going to affect me. you know, maybe the young and healthy people say, look, all I've heard is I'm not going to get sick from this. They're not taking into consideration that while the likelihood of them getting sick is low, they can pass it on to vulnerable people, people who are elderly or with pre-existing conditioning. Look, because we've been insulated, I think, from many other places in the world -- I mean I'm hearing from my colleagues in Italy and hearing what's going on there. And we have the opportunity to not go that direction, but I got to say tonight I'm not seeing it, Jake.
TAPPER: No, it's depressing. Sanjay, stay with us. I want to continue this conversation. We have to squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:40:10]
TAPPER: Welcome back to CNN's live coverage of Super Tuesday III as well as the coronavirus pandemic. I want to bring back Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay and I were, before the break, talking about images we were seeing out of San Francisco where supposedly there's a shelter in place going on. But in fact you see a lot of people from the San Francisco area and the city of San Francisco completely ignoring the shelter in place suggestion, order, whatever they want to call it.
The mayor told me earlier today that people were allowed to go out and take a walk if they really needed to, but we've seen people roller blading, cycling, jogging, people not taking this very seriously.
And, Sanjay, let's talk about something that you and I have talked about a lot over the last week and a half, which is the fact that the United States is pretty much mirroring Italy. We about ten or so days behind where they are, and their trajectory of how many people have been confirmed cases of this is basically we're following them by about a week and a half.
And I want you to take a look at this graph we have right here in front of me. This is the spread of coronavirus in the U.S. as of midnight last night, east coast time, there were 4,466. The most recent count we have now is 5,748, which means the trajectory continues to go straight up. It's going straight up. We haven't even really started this 15 days to bend the curve or flatten the curve program. I guess it started yesterday officially.
But this is horrifying because this means pain, suffering, and death in a way that we Americans could control more, but we are not.
GUPTA: That is exactly right, Jake. It's what I think most people in the public health community are really worried about. Maybe it's human nature to some extent not to pay attention to something until it's smacking you in the face. But I think that's what's happening here. I mean, look, some of the numbers are -- we know the numbers are going to go up because testing is now starting to finally catch up, right? There were 8,200 tests done, I think, over the last day or so. That was the biggest number of tests done in a single day. 60,000 total now tests that have been performed.
Still, far below, you know, many of these other countries, so some of that is going to obviously drive these numbers up. Also, you know, it's five days between the time someone's exposed to the time they start to show symptoms on average. So, you know, these numbers are going to be behind the curve there as well.
My point is this, Jake. these numbers are just going to continue to go up because it is spreading and because the testing is out there. And if you look at images of Wuhan, images of Hong Kong, images where people were truly actually socially distancing, it's very different than the images, Jake, you were just showing on television from San Francisco. The streets were bare. People were not outside. It wasn't like that forever. It was like that for a couple of weeks because that was the goal to break the chain of transmission.
Again, Jake, I don't think we're taking this seriously. There's a lot of things that need to be done. We need to make sure hospitals are prepared. We need to make sure there's enough breathing machines and ICU beds and overall hospital beds. But the individual responsibility, which is something, again, that we've been talking about for weeks if not months now, I'm surprised, Jake, at this point still there's a lack of seriousness being given to this, and it worries me, and it worries a lot of the public health officials I've been talking to.
TAPPER: Look, everybody understands if you have a doctor's appointment for an important procedure, you go to the doctor. If you need groceries or else you're not going to be able to survive, you go to the grocery store.
GUPTA: Right.
TAPPER: But this idea of people roller blading when this pandemic is going on, the idea of beaches in Florida being filled is outrageous, and it will -- it is -- first of all, it's ignorant, but it's also selfish because as you and I have talked about at great length, a lot of people -- most people will not die from this. A lot of people will suffer from it and perhaps have life-long injuries from it. And a lot of people -- a minority, but still many, many people are going to die from this. And it's actually the bigger group, the survivors, who are going to carry it and give it to the people who are going to die from it.
GUPTA: Absolutely. We're all in this together, and I think that the narrative, the message that I think a lot of people have been hearing is, look, it's not that bad. It's just another flu. Most young, healthy people are going to be just fine. Maybe they haven't really been paying attention to some of these other countries around the world that have been hard hit. Maybe they don't fully realize that they can still transmit this virus and make somebody, you know, a family member, somebody they love or a total stranger sick from this still.
[20:45:12]
This is a virus. It's -- I think, unlike anything that maybe many people in their lifetime have dealt with, certainly to this degree. So, you know, I'm not someone who likes to motivate through fear, inspire through fear, but we've got to -- there's lessons staring us right in the face when it comes to this. And, you know, for a country that does so many things well. And I think our public health system at times can do so many things well. Right now I think we're woefully underprepared, and I'm -- I don't know what our -- the talkbacks you and I are going to have next week, I don't know what we're going to be talking about, and I'm a little frightened to sort of thing about that right now, Jake.
TAPPER: There have been, by serious medical professionals in England and in the United States, projections that hundreds of thousands of Americans will die from this, if not millions, if not millions of Americans. Now, I understand there have been a lot of people giving false information out there, including President Trump although in the last couple days, he's completely been striking the right tone and talking about how serious it is. And including a lot of conservative pundits and a lot of people on a different channel, is talking about how this is just like the flu. But it's not. How bad do you think it's going to be in a month? What are we going to be talking about?
GUPTA: I've really tried to modulate, you know, I've looked at all these models and I've tried to modulate, I think, things to present things in a way that I think are digestible. But, look, I think when people listen to the message coming out of the White House today, which, again, was a much more distinctive and different tone, you heard the President say, look, stay home.
Look, this is -- it's bad. These are the President's words after he met with his public health advisers and they really convinced him of what they were seeing here. It's bad, he said. You know, I think people really need to heed that. Jake, you know, the numbers are -- I think it's hard to really wrap your mind around what the numbers could be. And I don't -- you know, I think maybe it's not helpful at this point to project what those numbers are.
But let me just say this. You know, you've heard from many people that 40% to 60% of the nation could be exposed to this virus. 40% to 60% of Americans. And you've heard that the fatality rate of this is 1% to 2%, let's say, and that might be conservative. You know, it's hard to know for sure.
But overall. I mean, look, you can do the math. And, again, this is -- I don't want to be alarmist. I want to be very careful here how I'm presenting this. But I think the prevailing message should be that maybe we are still at this inflection point and if we take heed, and we're not asking people to -- there's no therapeutic. There's no vaccine. We know that. We're asking people to stay home and not spread the virus. That's what public health officials are saying. Stay home and don't spread this virus. You won't know if you are. It's not like something you're going to feel or see or do intentionally, but it could happen anyway. Stay home and don't spread the virus. I think it's really -- it may be one of the most important things I've said.
TAPPER: Let's talk about some of the things that the viewers at home right now should be doing. First of all, if you're over 60 or you have an underlying issue in terms of your respiratory system or your immunity system, you should stay home. You should be home. You should not be leaving your house, period. You should not be having people over at your house to socialize, period. You need to be by yourself. You need to protect yourself. If you're married, obviously with your spouse. But you need to protect yourself.
Sanjay, you and I were talking about this yesterday. We both have kids who are home. Schools have been canceled. No play dates. We're not allowing any play dates. What other advice would you give people?
GUPTA: With your own personal hygiene, you know, your hands end up being a big potential transmitter of this virus. It can stay on your hand. You can touch yourself. You can touch someone else and spread the virus. So making sure your own personal hygiene with regard to hand-washing is clear. Every time you touch surfaces, you know, make sure you're wiping surfaces because again we know that virus can stick to surfaces.
If you're going to visit someone who is vulnerable or elderly, and again, like you said, Jake, you want to really minimize that. I was supposed to visit my own parents who are in their late 70s this past weekend. I did not do that trip. But if you have to, you got to act as if you might be carrying the virus. Act as if you might be carrying the virus.
My youngest daughter had her birthday yesterday. We canceled a birthday party. It was not an easy discussion to have with an 11-year- old. She understands, and -- but it's the right thing this do. We need to set that example. So there's all these things, you know, that are within our power and we're in this together.
[20:50:01]
I mean again, the good news part of this is that it is within our control, I think, to totally change the fate here or at least alter the fate of what's happening here. Maybe not totally change it but have an impact on where this thing goes. It's within all of us. How I behave, Jake, affects your health. How you behave affects my health. Never, I think, have we been so dependent on each other, at least not in my lifetime, and we should -- you know, we should rise to that occasion, I think.
TAPPER: Right. I mean this is an opportunity -- look, we're going to get through this. The United States will get through this.
GUPTA: Yes. TAPPER: There will be a period of time where this is really, really, really bad and we're all really upset, and we're getting there. But we're not even close. I mean we just passed 100. The death rate is going to get higher than that. Dr. Fauci, is going to say -- he said, the worst is ahead of us. Go ahead, I'm sorry.
GUPTA: Yes, right, and I think maybe it was Michael Osterholm or Thomas Frieden, I'm not sure who said this, but said look, this isn't a snow day. A lot of people are thinking this is a snow day with schools out and stuff like, this is a winter storm. We will get through it, Jake, absolutely. We're going to get through this and that's certainly something people can count on, but we've got to take this seriously now, because when we get through this is very much dependent on how we behave right now.
I think that the measures that are going into place, if they are going to work, they've got to be put in place strongly, early, consistently, honestly. People have to be really, really diligent about this. And again, I'm just not sure that we are. I'm not blaming anyone or anything because I think, you know, people -- maybe they don't know what to believe, maybe they haven't gotten clear messages, they're not taking it seriously. We got to take this seriously. We really do. We are all in this together.
I mean if people aren't taking it seriously, you're not just affecting your health anymore, you're affecting everybody's health. And there's not many things, I think, in our lives or society where you can say that.
TAPPER: And if you have questions, you can go to coronavirus.gov. That will take you right --
GUPTA: That's right.
TAPPER: -- to the CDC page that has a lot of details about how you can protect yourself and your family and your community.
Sanjay, when you look at the countries that have dealt with this most effectively, I think South Korea is probably one of the best examples, but I've also heard --
GUPTA: Yes.
TAPPER: -- other countries mentioned. What did they do that enabled them to flatten the curve and to lessen the incidents of contracting the virus and also of fatalities?
GUPTA: Yes. Well, look, Jake, it's interesting, because everyone always points to China, and the immediate next sentiment is, but we can't do in terms of what China did in terms of quarantines because of the autocratic government. Fair enough.
Let's look at Singapore. Let's look at Hong Kong which borders mainland China where they've -- where Ivan Watson was earlier today. They have had a very low number of cases over there. There is no therapeutic, there is no vaccine, there is nothing different they have that we don't. What they did was they acted early, decisively. I mean once you let the numbers of people who are infected get beyond a certain point, then the social distancing mechanisms which we can really count on early, they don't work as well. They did those things early, they did them honestly, they did them consistently and people were very diligent about it. They kind of got into it. Not everybody, but most people did.
Very different than what we're seeing here. We don't have to just look for China for evidence of success. It took a while for China. But there is evidence of success in other countries that we could absolutely emulate, I think, in terms of how we do things here. We got behind on testing and that was a real problem, but you know what? I think it's time to stop looking in the rearview mirror on this, because there's too much in front of us that we have to talk about. And right now hospital preparedness, social distancing, taking this seriously has got to be the name of the game.
TAPPER: And the other thing that Dr. Fauci keeps reminding us of is we think we are where we are, in other words, what we know today, 5,748 confirmed cases in the United States and more than 100 deaths, that's actually where we were a week ago. Because there was a delay in contracting the virus and then getting the symptoms, getting tested, getting the results back. So the steps that need to be taken today are steps for two weeks from now. Right? And two weeks from now, this death toll and this rate of contracting the virus is going to be exponentially higher.
GUPTA: Yes. I mean we can look at even the most conservative models with regard to this, and I think, you know, people have been sort of eased into a new sort of way of life over the last couple weeks. Every time something new happens with the NBA suspending its season, the NCAA, people that -- people know -- well-known celebrities or whatever contracting the virus, people are always sort of shocked.
[20:55:04]
But all along, Jake, the numbers have continued to trickle up. They -- we haven't seen them a bit as much as other places, because we didn't test as robustly, but they have been trickling up. And then all of a sudden people are going to be shocked at how high these numbers are and they're going to be in a state of disbelief.
But as they look at those numbers, they should know this, this was predicted. This was not a shock to public health officials who've been sort of following it. And, you know, I mean if there's any good news in it, it also means that there's probably a lot of people out there who are carrying the virus who aren't sick. We get that. Most people are going to get that sick with it. But a lot of people are going to get sick. And what happens to them, how -- many people get sick, how many people die -- dependent on what we do right now.
I mean not even --
TAPPER: Yes.
GUPTA: -- tomorrow. Certainly not next week. Right now, I mean I was looking at images from Italy last week, Jake, I'm sure you saw some of these, and there were people sort of walking, you know, close by to each other, really not taking this seriously at all in Italy, very much like the images you were just showing here in the states.
TAPPER: Yes.
GUPTA: I mean it was the exact same sort of thing, and now you got these stories in some of these hospitals where they got 1,100 patients, and they need -- and they have 800 beds. What do you do? What do you do?
TAPPER: And we focus a lot on the fatality rate, but I should just point out, a friend of mine, Matt (ph), who is strong, young, fit, the last guy you would think would be vulnerable to a disease like this, no preexisting condition, no contact that he knew of with somebody, he has it, and he has been in horrible shape for a week. Horrible shape. This guy is like a superhero if you met him and he's been in horrible shape.
Sanjay, I know you have a town hall coming up with Anderson Cooper. Is that tomorrow night that you're going to be doing that? I'm sorry, Thursday night. Thursday night at 10:00 p.m. eastern you're going to be doing another CNN global town hall talking about this. Thank you so much as always, we really appreciate it.
Dana Bash, to you now.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: I have been working with Sanjay Gupta for a long time, admiring him, listening to him for a long time. I have never heard him like that Jake.
TAPPER: No, he's the guy that says you're going to be fine.
BASH: I've never --
TAPPER: Yes.
BASH: -- heard him, seen him -- I mean frustrated, and as angry as Sanjay Gupta gets at the fact that people aren't listening. I wrote down what he said. Act as if you have the virus. Never have we been so dependent on each other and we should rise to the occasion. That should be words that everybody lives by, no matter if you are a baby boomer, if you are a gen-xer, if you were a millenial, no matter where you are, you know, generationally, listen. Because we -- you know, one of our colleagues Terence Burlij (ph), he's talks about the social contract, and I never kind of -- I mean understood what it meant, but I am living it right now.
This is about the social contract and making sure that we are living our lives in a way that we protect people we don't even know. It is so dire.
TAPPER: And look, I mean, my dad is turning 80 this month, you know? People out there who are millennials or younger and thinking, well, if you're 80 years old, you know, it only affects people who are in their 70s and 80s, which isn't true, although obviously the people in their 60s, 70s and 80s are most vulnerable to it. What are you saying, that my 80-year-old dad, therefore, is fair game?
BASH: Right.
TAPPER: I mean the selfishness of people who are not taking this seriously is -- it's just maddening. And I get that people don't understand it, but what bothers me is people who just think, well I'm young, I'm not going to die from it.
First of all, not necessarily true. Second of all, you could get really, really sick and you could be injured for the rest of your life with like scarred lungs, and third of all, who the hell are you to be walking around just giving this to old people and you just flippantly dismiss it?
BASH: And the key is what Sanjay said at the end there which he had said I -- you know, we can't -- we count the amount of times that he end and others including people in the task force, governors, mayors everybody has said it's about protecting people because our hospitals aren't equipped to handle the kind of sickness that could and will happen if people don't take personal responsibility and follow the guidelines.
TAPPER: Not to mention how much in danger they are putting the doctors, the nurses, the nurse practitioners, the ambulance drivers, the EMTs, the people who help out at hospitals, the people who work in hospitals who now have this surge of patients. And last week get ahead of it.
We're going to stay on top of the coronavirus crisis. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right back. Oh, we're not doing a quick break?
