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CNN Live Event/Special
Biden Wins Florida; Biden Wins Illinois, His Second Win Of The Night; Biden Speaking To Supporters After Winning Florida, Illinois. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired March 17, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER: Oh, we're not doing a quick break.
(MUSIC)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, THE SITUATION ROOM WITH WOLF BLITZER: All right, welcome back to our coverage, Super Tuesday III. I'm Wolf Blitzer, here on the CNN Election Center. Once again, we want to welcome our viewers here in the United States, and around the world.
We've got a key race alert right now. Joe Biden is the winner in Florida, 219 delegates at stake. The former Vice President of the United States wins decisively in Florida, the biggest prize of the night.
In Illinois, right now, with a 155 delegates at stake, we still believe it's too early to call. We are waiting for all the polling places in Cook County, Chicago, to close. Perhaps we'll be able to make a projection.
Let's take a look at the vote right now in Illinois. Let's start in Illinois. 10 percent of the vote is actually in.
Biden has an impressive lead over Bernie Sanders, 57.3 percent to 37 percent for Bernie Sanders. He's ahead by almost 33,000 votes, only 10 percent of the vote is in, in Illinois, but Biden has an impressive lead so far, with 10 percent of the vote in.
Let's go over to John King at the Magic Wall, who's watching all of this very closely. It's an impressive win in Florida. It looks like it - it's just really good for Biden in Illinois as well.
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Very impressive win in Florida, Illinois. The reason we have some caution here, if you look at the overall numbers, 10 percent looks like a pretty healthy lead.
I just want to take you through, be cautious, count the votes, right? One of the reasons, let's look at Cook County, obviously the largest voting pool in the State of Illinois, pretty close at the moment.
Early, this is early. That's a very low number, 18,718, 18,199, but Bernie Sanders running competitive right now in the City of Chicago. That would be out of the ordinary in the sense if you go through the
past races, Joe Biden has done very well in the urban areas, African- American vote, inner-city vote has been great for him.
Just to go back in time here, 2016, if you come in here, Hillary Clinton won, you know, just shy of 10 points there. So, we want to watch this. We want to watch this and see if Senator Sanders, for whatever reason, at the moment right now, he's ahead in Cook County.
When you come back here in - in Chicago, in the Chicago part of it right here, you have this Cook County suburbs, out here as well, you come into Chicago itself, right here, 13 percent, a very narrow lead for Bernie Sanders.
So, let's watch this, right? That would be a big surprise. We're early out in the night. This is why we count votes. Sometimes you have a little bit of a see-saw as votes come in.
You pull back to the state, if that stays that way, if that stays Bernie Sanders blue, then Bernie Sanders is at least keeping Illinois close. But if you look at the other, the rest of the votes tell you perhaps that will change.
But this is why we count them. You come to the rest of the state, you come down in here, Peoria County, Joe Biden winning 21 percent of the vote, healthy margin right there, as we watch it play out.
You're going to watch the rest of it fill in.
I just, again, Springfield down here, come on out, there we go, big, almost 60 percent there, 59 to 22, small number of votes there, as you watch it fill in. Again, the overwhelming majority of your vote is going to come right up here, Chicago and the suburbs.
And if you go back in time, again, for the most part, you see a lot of Bernie Sanders blue, right, small town America, some blue collar towns, Rockford, Illinois, Bernie Sanders did very well.
He won in Springfield. Joe Biden is ahead right now. So, you use this as your comparison when you come to the race at this time, and we're just going to watch it fill in.
And again, I just want to keep checking. This is Sanders still ahead, up to 23 percent now in Chicago, pretty close race there, Sanders on top, so we're going to watch.
This is - this is a bit of a surprise, right? It's not what it - it's not what has tracked in other urban areas around the country. But Sanders has run before here. It's very early.
As you noted, some polling places were left open, people in line, in part because of the social distancing, in part because of just to keep people from getting too close together inside, so we'll watch, obviously, maybe a little closer than we thought again.
BLITZER: What was the count of the margin four years ago in Cook County, Chicago?
KING: Here, just in the Chicago itself, the margin was very close, reasonably close, nine points, eight points there, if you look at it there, Hillary Clinton winning, Hillary Clinton winning there, and Hillary Clinton winning by a big margin in the suburbs as well.
But again, Sanders was competitive, if you look, competitive in the sense when you're looking at the other places we have seen, Florida tonight, other parts of the state, other urban areas in the state.
Sanders last time, remember, this was a 4-point race, that's a close race back four years ago, Bernie Sanders did very well in the Industrial Midwest, four years ago, surprised the Clinton campaign, first in Michigan, ran strong here in Illinois.
So, if we come back to tonight, and look at it, but again, if you look at the statewide numbers, at 12 percent, Joe Biden's lead looks comfortable. But, just remember, most of the votes come from here, we're up to 23 percent. That's - sometimes that fluctuates too, as things come in. We've had this.
BLITZER: Right.
KING: We've seen this in Florida as well. So, be a little bit wary of that number. But if you look at the numbers right here, 48 to 47, 48 to 48, if you round that up, but, you know, this is very competitive, more competitive than you would think in Chicago.
Again, we need to see the suburbs as well. The suburbs have been Joe Biden's wheelhouse, if you will. After the South Carolina primary, it is the suburbs that have made Joe Biden the presumptive nominee, or at least to pull away from Bernie Sanders--
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: It's interesting because they just closed the - the--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --polling places in Cook County.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: They kept them open for an extra hour because of the long lines.
KING: Right. And so, sometimes, the count takes a while. We've been through a few of these.
BLITZER: Right.
[21:05:00]
KING: And we've been few - through a few of these. And sometimes, the count takes time, especially if you left the polls open for an extra hour, especially we have heard some - some cases, you have fewer poll workers because of the Coronavirus concerns and the like.
So, we'll pull back out, just to check, still the same, statewide as you look. We're going to have to wait, and count on this. And again, you're looking - this is just a smaller County down here, not as - not as big as.
BLITZER: Let's go down to Florida right now.
KING: Yes.
BLITZER: We've projected that Biden is the winner in Florida. And now, 91 percent of--
KING: Yes.
BLITZER: --the actual vote is in. I think every single county with 91 percent of the vote is in is - is for Biden.
KING: That is all Biden blue. And again, Hillary Clinton won big in Florida four years ago. But there was a smattering all up here, Northern part of the state, over here into the Panhandle, there was a smattering.
Bernie Sanders got 33 percent. It was a two-candidate race, remember. So, Hillary Clinton in a two-candidate race gets 64, Bernie Sanders in the two-candidate race gets 33.
Now here, you look here, Joe Biden getting close to Hillary Clinton. That's a pretty powerful number, when you remember, the reason this doesn't add up to a 100 is Michael Bloomberg, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, some of the other Democratic candidates were still in the race when early voting, so some people may have early voted for other candidates.
The fact that Biden is running that close to Secretary Clinton in what is now a two-candidate race, but not when some of the early voting started, is pretty strong.
We're going to do - David Chalian will be with us all night doing the Delegate math. But if you're looking at 219 delegates, Joe Biden getting at least 60 percent, get the statewide total, then you go through the Congressional districts, so it's not an automatic 61 percent.
But we've looked at that map a little bit. We've looked at that map a little bit when you come through. And when it's all Biden blue, is it possibly, he doesn't quite get 60 percent, yes, but is it possible he gets more than 60 percent? That's possible too. 219, that means he's going to pick up 130-plus.
BLITZER: Yes.
KING: A 130-plus just in Florida.
BLITZER: And, as a result, his lead maybe--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --insurmountable going--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --going ahead, because we're taking a closer look at them.
KING: Right. If you come back to here, he started tonight about 150 - 153, I think, was the exact number of delegates ahead. He's 200-plus ahead right now.
This process will go on through the night, still allocating in Florida, obviously still waiting more results in Illinois, and then we go West to Arizona, another big price tonight obviously was Ohio. That primary was delayed. Big fight over that.
But we're up to 12 percent right now. And I think this has stayed static. I just want to check. Yes, it has. We're just waiting for more votes to come in, in Chicago, waiting for the suburbs around Chicago, and we'll count them.
BLITZER: Yes. This is the second biggest prize of the night.
KING: Yes.
BLITZER: 155 delegates, and we're still waiting for Arizona to close--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --at the top of the next hour.
KING: But--
BLITZER: They actually will wind up close the polls. But then, you got to wait an hour before they start releasing the number.
KING: Yes. Arizona takes a while, so we'll have to see how that happens. And again, if you look at the neighborhood, you'd say, "Oh, Bernie Sanders has done well out West."
But I just want to remind people, four years ago, Hillary Clinton won Arizona. It has similar map to it, Hillary Clinton won Arizona, and won it pretty convincingly.
This is an interesting question. Joe Biden's big win in Florida tonight tells you Bernie Sanders is not performing with Latino voters, as he has in Nevada, as he has in California, this year, as you come back to 2020.
You know, Bernie Sanders wins Nevada caucuses. California, they're still counting votes out in California, but he's ahead in California, very successful with the Latino vote.
Florida is a different story. It's a very different Latino population. We'll see how this one goes. Is it - is it a blow-out for Biden, as it was for Clinton four years
ago, or does Bernie Sanders' improved standing with Latinos help him out - out in Arizona, we will see this - we'll see this as we come out here, as we look at the map.
One of the ways you want to look at this, where as we get through this, this is Super Tuesday III, not as super as we thought, because Ohio about out.
But if you just want to look at the - go across the country, through the primary so far, this is by County, just an interesting way to look at the votes, especially when you go through, when we look at a general election perspective, we can do that as the light goes - night goes on, which counties voted for Obama, I mean, Obama and then flipped over for Trump and the like.
But if you look across the South, and Florida some people don't consider Florida in the South, but if you look at - look at the states down here, just overwhelming. It is just overwhelming.
Now, many of these states are not viewed as competitive states, come the general election, so they're very helpful to Joe Biden in building his delegate lead, very helpful in Joe Biden essentially flipping a switch on the Democratic race in the--
BLITZER: In the South, you see all that dark blue, that's Biden.
KING: It's all Biden blue here.
Now, when you move to the West, let me bring it back a little bit for you, bring this over, you move to the West, this is an issue. Does that mean Joe Biden, if he's the nominee, would have a problem in California in the general election? Don't go that far.
BLITZER: Yes.
KING: It does - it does tell you though that he has inroads to make among Latino voters, especially out West, younger voters. We've talked about that many times. Joe Biden has a problem with younger voters. That's a Sanders' constituency.
So, when you look at the map now, you're Joe Biden, you're very confident you're stretching your delegate lead. You're very confident you will be the Democratic nominee. We're not ready to go there yet. But you are in the Biden campaign thinking the math is getting there.
So, you look at this map now, and you see these are my strengths, and I want to shrink it - let me just shrink it back down a little bit, sorry for turning my back, this is my strength, a lot of that is African-American voters plus suburban voters.
Do not discount the power of suburban voters in giving you all this Biden blue. Just like Nancy Pelosi is Speaker because of the suburbs of America revolting against Donald Trump, Joe Biden has this big delegate lead because of the combination of African-American voters and suburban voters. So, if you're thinking about the general election, you're starting this map. You also have to look out here, and say, you have a lot of strengths, you have some weaknesses, you better deal with them.
BLITZER: So, Georgia and Louisiana, they haven't voted yet.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: Georgia was supposed to vote next Tuesday. They've delayed it.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: Louisiana's delaying it.
KING: Yes.
[21:10:00]
BLITZER: Because of the Coronavirus as well. All right, we got a lot more coming up.
David Chalian, you're taking a look at our primary poll right now, to get some insight on how this is unfolding.
TEXT: CNN PRIMARY POLL.
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: That's right, Wolf.
Remember, we didn't do in-person exit polling today due to the Coronavirus. We did assess voters' take on this election in a telephone poll, in advance of the election. I want to show you something in Illinois.
We asked voters how concerned they are about the effects of the Coronavirus outbreak, look at this number. A majority of Democratic primary voters, Illinois, 53 percent say "Very concerned."
What a difference a week makes? In Washington State, a week ago, that number was 38 percent, the "Very concerned" number. That is what has happened in a week here.
We also did ask, by the way, before I show you the next finding, I just want to say, we asked people, do you think Coronavirus is going to impact whether or not you vote? Not that many people.
About 6 to 8 percent in Florida and Illinois said "Yes, I'm planning on voting. And now that I hear about Coronavirus that may have an impact on my decision to vote."
But - but fewer than one in 10 voters told us that look here on the "Trust to handle a major crisis in Illinois." This is a huge number for Joe Biden. 64 percent to Sanders' 31 percent, who say he's the one they trust more to handle a major crisis.
Obviously, the country is in the midst of a major crisis. This 2 to 1 ratio on who can handle a major crisis is a huge Biden advantage right now in this context in this race.
We also asked about candidate qualities. Folks that are looking for the candidate that can unite the country, about 36 percent of voters in Illinois, look at this, Joe Biden is seen as the uniter, 74 percent, Sanders, 21 percent. Huge Biden category!
Now, looking for a change agent, it's a smaller slice of the electorate, about a quarter of the electorate in Illinois. But that is a Sanders category. He gets 55 percent of change voters, and Biden gets 41 percent, so not as big of an advantage among change voters for Sanders, but it is a Sanders' category.
Anderson?
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: David Chalian, thanks very much. Back now with our folks.
We are - I should point out, we're also waiting comments from former Vice President Joe Biden. He's doing a live stream event. We'll take that when it begins, so you can hear what he has to say. Obviously, very good news for him tonight, in - in the numbers.
It just - this is - I mean, again, we - it's a cliche. But it is uncharted waters, not only for how to deal with this virus, but also how do you deal with the what's going to be a very contentious presidential election in the midst of this virus.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: And - and when you cannot have contact with people, the candidate, for example, Donald Trump who just went over the - over the line tonight, as the official Republican nominee, I might - I might say, he's--
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I predicted that.
BORGER: Did you predict?
AXELROD: Yes.
BORGER: He is somebody who gets his energy from - from big rallies. Bernie Sanders is somebody who's always gotten his energy from big rallies.
And as Bernie Sanders now, first of all, looks at this overwhelming math, and looks at the fact that he won't be able to have those rallies anymore, the - the question is what does he decide to do?
If there is a sense that this country is in crisis, which it is, and there - and an existential crisis, the election becomes really important, more important even, because people believe it's a matter literally of life and death.
COOPER: But also if voting itself--
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: --is a danger--
AXELROD: Yes.
BORGER: That's right.
COOPER: --then do you stay in a race where you don't have a path. There may be other reasons to stay in the race for your message get - trying to convince the other candidate to come more to your side.
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: But possibly risking exposure--
AXELROD: Yes.
BORGER: Exactly.
AXELROD: Look, I think there's going to be an enormous pressure for him to - to call the race because it's over.
And the problem is, you know, because of the indefinite nature of what's going to happen, next, in terms of these other primaries, this thing could get prolonged for - for a very long time when, you know, there are a lot of Democrats who are going to feel the urge to unify.
Let me just say one thing about moving forward, however. You are right. This will rob Trump of his ability to do these large rallies. But he has one big platform right now. We saw today.
BORGER: Right.
AXELROD: He's the President of the United States in the midst of a crisis. It took him a long time to acknowledge the depth of that crisis. But if he consistently appears to be wrestling with that crisis, this is a country that likes to rally behind the leader and--
COOPER: Well it was also interesting to see him today sticking through the Coronavirus Task Force comments.
BORGER: Yes.
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: Normally, he wouldn't even be there at all. Then he was, and then he left, you know, the other day.
AXELROD: They obviously have had a big strategic discussion.
COOPER: Right.
AXELROD: --about the--
COOPER: This is the story of the time.
AXELROD: And--
BORGER: Well--
COOPER: And he wants to get--
BORGER: But I would argue--
AXELROD: Exactly.
BORGER: --but I would argue, he acts more like an MC--
COOPER: Right.
BORGER: --at these events then he is as a leader who's giving you information that you need as an American citizen. He says, "Let me introduce Tony Fauci. And let me introduce the Vice President."
[21:15:00]
I mean, the Vice President actually has been somebody who has seemed to be much more in command of this than - than the President himself, and he continues just to be the person who introduces people with knowledge. I don't know if that--
AXELROD: He said--
BORGER: --will end up healthy.
AXELROD: --no, no, no. But he - he - look, he was audacious today in trying to rewrite history about--
BORGER: Yes.
AXELROD: --how this whole thing began, and all of the time that he took kind of downplaying the - the threat. But I don't think we should underestimate the platform that he has here--
BORGER: Yes, absolutely.
AXELROD: --just as a pure political matter. And, you know, Americans should be rooting for him to get command of this situation. But, you know, if you're Joe Biden, you have to think about--
BORGER: How do you run?
AXELROD: --how do you run against a guy who's spending hours on television every day, talking to America - the American people about this mortal threat.
ALEXANDRA ROJAS, FORMER 2016 BERNIE SANDERS CAMPAIGN ORGANIZER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JUSTICE DEMOCRATS: I mean I think that - the thing that I think a lot about in this - the midst of the Coronavirus, obviously the Trump Administration's response has been delayed. And glad to see that there is some traction right now.
But I think that it sort of exposes a lot of the gaps that we currently, even before this crisis, have faced within our healthcare system, within our economic system, over the past 40 years, the total degradation of our social safety net, and what that means right now in moments of crises.
And when this primary, though it's very clear, right, I don't think Bernie or any of the groups that are supporting, they know that this path is - is hard, and there will be pressure, like you were saying.
But I think the conversation around two fundamentally different visions, one where it's literally called the back-to-normal plan with someone like Joe Biden, and someone like Bernie Sanders, who is calling for a political revolution, and fundamental changes, I think, crises like these show how necessary it is for Democrats to really go big in this moment, and--
COOPER: Let me ask though because earlier you said they shouldn't have voted today anywhere because of the danger to people.
Do you - do you want - is it morally responsible then, for Senator Sanders, who does not have a path forward to continue in a race with the expectation that people will go out, and have to, yes, I mean if they want to, will go out and be expected to vote, and perhaps, in your words, endanger themselves?
ROJAS: Sure. I think there's two things here. I think one, you should look at the candidates' responses in this moment.
Bernie Sanders, just an hour ago, was doing basically - a live stream all on the Coronavirus, and what we should be doing in this moment. He took a step outside of politics to do that. He did that - he's done that multiple times.
And I think the second thing is, is that Bernie Sanders represents millions of people.
COOPER: Sure.
ROJAS: Latinos, young people, and - and poor and working people, across this country that, again, felt like they were in a crisis before this very one, and are the ones that are going to be most deeply impacted.
Joe Biden has those people too. And so, I think, to have someone in the race that is constantly centering the lives of poor and working people is absolutely necessary.
COOPER: But should the race continue?
ROJAS: I think that the race - this is a Democratic primary.
I think that the Democratic leadership needs to take into account that in the midst of this moment of uncertainty and unprecedented moment, in the middle of a pandemic, how do we make it easier for folks to vote?
I think that the unification of our Party, right, is on Joe Biden, as the presumptive nominee, to figure out how to bring in progressives--
COOPER: Yes. ROJAS: --how to bring in young people.
COOPER: Governor, I mean, should this rates continue? And if - if you--
TERRY MCAULIFFE, (D) FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR, BIDEN SUPPORTER: Yes, listen, the map is virtually impossible now. Joe Biden is going to be the nominee of the Democratic Party. I think it's very important that he work very closely with Senator Sanders.
We are in a major crisis in this country with the Coronavirus. We have a President that yesterday said he deserves a 10 out of 10 on dealing with this crisis.
I mean, nobody in this country has faith that Donald Trump can lead us through this crisis. What you saw tonight, 74 percent people said Joe Biden is the one who can deal with a crisis like this. And I think that's what you've seen.
So, you know, Senator Sanders is going to have to make up his own decision. I will say he has moved the debate on free college education. He's moved the debate on the Bankruptcy bill.
You know, I remind you that back when Obamacare, when the Affordable Care Act was first being constructed, and they talked about a public option, that was no way we were doing, it's just too-Left, now the public option's in the mainstream. So, he's had a lot of great successes. But the math is the math.
And what we have to look at the broader issue, talking about elections, is we have to do a better job, as a country, on vote by mail. Only three states in America today do it. We've got Washington State, Oregon, and Colorado.
We today - the Congress today has to be appropriating money, so that they can print ballots, so that we can have free postage. We do it for the military and citizens outside the country. We need to do that for everybody. We need more people to vote.
And the Republicans, in fairness, for years, I dealt with it as Governor--
ROJAS: Right.
MCAULIFFE: --they have made it harder for people to vote.
BORGER: Well--
MCAULIFFE: We have to make it easier for people to vote.
COOPER: Is it - is that even logistically possible, I mean, in a general election to have vote by mail?
[21:20:00]
MCAULIFFE: Absolutely. (CROSSTALK)
MCAULIFFE: We've got to get to work on it.
ROJAS: Yes.
BORGER: But you have to - so you have the Congress now appropriating what $850 billion, and that's just stage one of this package, this kind of country bailout package for the entire country that has to do with the Coronavirus.
This is something they ought to be thinking about now. I'm sure the Parties are thinking about the fact that they're not going to have political conventions.
And the question is in the tone of this political debate. Here we have a country that is more divided than we've ever really seen in - in my lifetime, and it's been pretty divided, in the past, as we know.
But how do you then, in this existential crisis we are living through right now, how do you conduct a campaign with candidates who try and talk to the people, and say, "This is what I'm going to do to save you, and to help you, and to help your family, and we're giving you money to help your family," without sounding like you were so political that everything is so based that the country doesn't want to hear from you because they just want to get well?
MCAULIFFE: Well going to David's point--
BORGER: And I want the families to get well.
MCAULIFFE: --I agree with it a 100 percent. The President has the ability to go out to the Rose Garden or into the Briefing Room--
BORGER: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: --every single day. Nobody else can command the press. Now, to this date--
BORGER: Exactly.
MCAULIFFE: --the President, he's totally been a failure at this. He's confusing. He has lied about the Coronavirus. So, people are confused, so nobody has faith in him. But he does have that bully pulpit.
AXELROD: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: This is not going to be easy, I tell people all the time, taking on Donald Trump, he's going to have a lot of money, but this is a real crisis.
But Anderson, we do absentee ballots in all the states today. We can do it. The federal government knows every single person. They mail them Social Security checks. They - they have the data. We could do absentee for every person in this country.
COOPER: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: If there's a will.
COOPER: Somehow AARP knew my birthday, when I was turning 50, and alarmingly sent me--
AXELROD: But we did send--
COOPER: --a membership.
AXELROD: --we did send them a note.
COOPER: Yes, right. It seems there are - it seems ways to reach everybody. We're going to take a quick break. We are expecting comments from Vice President Biden. We'll bring those to you live.
[21:25:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: All right, we got a key race alert right now, take a look at this.
Illinois, 20 percent of the vote now in, the second biggest prize of the night, 155 delegates at stake, Joe Biden is ahead, and presently, 56.5 percent, to 38.3 percent for Bernie Sanders, he's up by almost 60,000 votes - votes right there.
Let's check in with Jeff Zeleny. He's working his sources for us right now. Jeff, what are you learning?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, one of the questions is what is Bernie Sanders thinking at this moment? And talking to some of his advisers, his fight for the Presidency is not over, but his campaign almost certainly is, and he knows the math here is essentially out of reach.
But one question facing the Sanders campaign, as they make this decision, is what would happen with his Movement.
And talking to one adviser, they say something that is very interesting, take a listen to this, says, "If he ends his candidacy, will someone else step into the void, and leave the Movement? Or is the best way to stay relevant by staying around for the rest of the race?"
So, that is one of the things, I'm told, that he is thinking about here. What is the next step for his Movement about these progressive ideals? There's no question, he has shaped this Party in so many ways, from policy positions and - and other matters over the last four years.
But I am told that if this pandemic was not gripping the country, he would almost certainly stay in, and push Joe Biden to be more progressive. But this is a different moment. And he, and his wife, Jane Sanders, are going to come to this decision
themselves at some point. No one around them or virtually no one around them has any sense of what they're going to do.
He believes he would be able to stay in and, you know, make his argument as this primary moves along. But there's no question, this is the last primary night, as we know it, of this campaign.
So, the decision facing Bernie Sanders, of course, is one about his Movement going forward, and will he be the leader of it, or if he leaves, would someone else? Wolf?
BLITZER: Well it sounds like you've - you're hearing from your sources, Jeff, that it's basically done as far as being an active aggressive candidate, in part, because of the Coronavirus.
ZELENY: I think we should be careful on this and let him make his own decision. The math is very, very difficult for him. But in these uncertain times here, he certainly would have the right to go forward, and move forward through these delegates.
But this is a different moment. So, this is a decision he has to make. But that is the thinking, the Movement here. This has always been something larger than a presidential campaign.
So the Movement, I'm told, is more of the question going forward, how will that be shaped rather than a presidential campaign because, again, the math is the math. And he knows this better than anyone. This is so much different than four years ago, Wolf.
BLITZER: It certainly is. All right, good reporting, Jeff, thanks very much.
ZELENY: Sure.
BLITZER: You know, Jake and Dana, mathematically, it's almost impossible for - for, you know, Bernie Sanders to have the delegates he needs to win the nomination.
TAPPER: Yes. Although there always is the question about whether or not he can still earn enough delegates to deny Joe Biden from getting 1,991 delegates before the Convention, in which case it's also possible that he stays in the race, as he did four years ago, to try to deny the nomination to Joe Biden, so as to exact some concessions on issues, on the Democratic Party platform, on the rules going forward.
I don't know what he's going to do, by the way. This is certainly very different from four years ago for any number of reasons, including the fact that Donald Trump is President, including the fact that there's this Coronavirus pandemic.
It's interesting because within the last week in the - in the - let me continue this in one second. But I'm told we need to go to Wolf Blitzer for a projection.
TEXT: CNN PROJECTION.
BLITZER: All right, we have a projection right now. Joe Biden is the winner in Illinois. He wins the Democratic presidential primary in Illinois, his second big win of the night, 155 delegates in Illinois.
He has won - tonight, he's won Florida. We projected that a while ago, and Illinois right now. Two big wins for Joe Biden against Bernie Sanders.
And Jake and Dana, we're waiting to hear from the former Vice President very soon. We're told he's going to be making a statement. We'll, of course, have live coverage - coverage of that.
But a very impressive two-state win so far.
[21:30:00]
TAPPER: That's right, two states. We're still waiting for Arizona. And we are expecting that this is not going to be a good night for Senator Sanders.
The point I was making before was that before the debate on Sunday, Vice President Biden already trying to make some concessions to Bernie Sanders, and to the Left, in general, knowing that he needs to win over their support, both Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders knows to - that he even more so needs to win over their supporters.
He adopted the free college tuition for public universities and colleges, plan of Bernie Sanders, adopted it as his own, and he adopted the banking proposal of Elizabeth Warren, even though that, you know, these are new positions for him.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. And the - the hope in the Biden campaign that that would - was that that would be a couple of olive branches that would, you know, help move, not just Bernie Sanders but, more importantly, his supporters towards Joe Biden, it wasn't how it played out here on Sunday night.
Bernie Sanders was very adamant in his criticism of Joe Biden, not just on the issues, but importantly on the issues. And you mentioned, before Wolf's projection of Illinois, about the notion of taking this to the Convention just because Bernie Sanders has leverage. That might be true.
But what's also true, you remember, is that now - and that was a couple of months ago, Bernie Sanders, when he was looking like he was ahead, said that he thought that whomever gets the - the plurality of the delegates would be the - would be and should be the nominee.
Well that, in this case, would be Joe Biden. So, he kind of boxed himself, if he's consistent on that, he boxed himself out of the - of the notion of challenging him, if nobody gets to 1,991.
Having said that, on Jeff Zeleny's reporting about the deep thinking that Bernie Sanders and his aides are doing tonight, and the question of what it means for the Movement, I still go back to what Senator Sanders said last Wednesday, after he had a big loss, which is him making the case that he needs to bring his Movement along, and the question is how is he going to do that.
TAPPER: All right, Wolf Blitzer.
BLITZER: All right, we're going to take a quick break right now. Joe Biden wins Illinois, wins Florida. We're waiting to hear from Joe Biden much more, right after this.
[21:35:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Joe Biden, the winner in Florida, very impressively a blow- out in Florida. CNN also projects that Joe Biden, the winner in Illinois, an impressive win there as well, the two biggest prizes tonight.
You know, John, normally we're - we're waiting to hear from Joe Biden right now.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: Normally, there'd be a big crowd. There'd be a celebration. We'd got to the - we'd see all the people cheering. He's going to be live streaming a statement right now because of the Coronavirus. No rallies.
KING: From home, in Delaware, which is just one of the many reminders tonight and, as we go forward, of the pandemic's impact on this campaign. The candidates are no longer out campaigning. The President's not doing rallies. Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders not traveling the country.
You know, Ohio didn't have its primary today. The Governor, at the last minute, decided to shut it down. That's where we are today. And we don't know where we're going forward.
We know that primaries of next week have been delayed. So, Joe Biden's going to pull up - open a big delegate lead tonight. But the delays in those other primaries will delay his clinch date, if you will, if this map Florida (ph) continue.
But let's look at where we are tonight. You mentioned this is a - Florida's a bigger lead, but this is a very significant lead too, more than 20 points in Illinois. We're up to - we're getting close to 40 percent.
So, what's happening here? This is again, when you go through this, especially when you look back at Sanders' 2016, you see how very different of a campaign this is with Joe Biden since South Carolina, since the switch flip, if you will, among Democratic voters.
First, you start in Chicago, relatively close here. Right here, Chicago, this is where most of your Democratic votes come in a Democratic primary. That's a 4-point race in Chicago, pretty much where it was four years ago.
So, if you're Bernie Sanders, you're saying, "I'm running strong in the biggest Democratic stronghold. I'm running competitive anyway. You're losing."
34 percent, we'll see if that holds up. We'll see if that holds up. But you look at it there, think about how this campaign has played out. Joe Biden normally wins by a bigger margin in urgent - in urban areas.
But again, Sanders was competitive in Chicago.
BLITZER: All right, hold on for a moment. Joe Biden is live streaming right now.
JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Last week, I had the honor of speaking to all of you from Philadelphia, the birthplace of the Foundational Documents of our Democracy.
Tonight, in keeping with the latest guidance from the CDC, to avoid gatherings of more than 10 people, I'm speaking to you from my home, in Wilmington, Delaware.
And I hope all of you are staying safe, talking and taking the recommended - the recommended precautions, and talking to the docs, if you have one, to keep your social distance, to slow the spread of this virus.
This pandemic has impacted every aspect of our lives and every aspect of this campaign.
But, most of all, my heart goes out to all of those of you who've lost a loved one, to those who have contracted the virus, to all the brave Americans who are working harder-than-ever to help their neighbors, and all those children that are home from school that are worried, and don't know quite why, doctors, nurses, EMTs and public health officials, as well as the frontline emergency workers, like firefighters and dedicated folks working to keep the shelves stocked in the grocery stores.
You know, tackling this pandemic is a national emergency, akin to fighting a war, and it's going to require leadership and cooperation from every level of government.
And it's going to require us to move thoughtfully, and decisively, to quickly address both the public health crisis as well as the economic crisis. It's going to require us to pay attention to the medical and scientific and health experts. And it's going to require each of us to do our part.
[21:40:00]
Yes, this is a moment where we need our leaders to lead, but it's also a moment where the choices and decisions we make as individuals are going to collectively impact on what happens, make a big difference in the severity of this outbreak and the ability of our medical and hospital systems to handle it.
You know, I know we, as a people, are up to this challenge. We always have been. I know that we'll answer this moment of crisis with the best that we find in all of us because that's what Americans always have done, and what we do.
That's who we are, ordinary people doing extraordinary things when the need arises. And today, we are moving quickly to adapt our routines to meet this challenge.
Americans in three states went to the polls today. I want to thank all the public officials and the poll workers, who worked closely with the public health authorities to assure safe opportunities for voting, to clean and disinfect voting booths, and to make sure the voters could cast their ballots while maintaining the distance from one another that was safe.
You know, it's important for us to get through this crisis, protecting both the public health and our democracy. And today, it looks like, once again, in Florida and Illinois, we're still awaiting to hear from Arizona, our campaign has had a very good night.
We moved closer to securing the Democratic Party's nomination for President.
And we're doing it by building a broad coalition that we need to win in November, with strong support from the African-American community, the Latino community, high school educated people like the folks I grew up with in my own neighborhood, labor, teachers, suburban women, veterans, firefighters, and so many more, and we're doing it with a common vision.
Senator Sanders and I may disagree on tactics, but we share a common vision for the need to provide affordable healthcare for all Americans, reduce income inequity that has risen so drastically, to tackling the existential threat of our time, climate change.
Senator Sanders and his supporters have brought a remarkable passion and tenacity to all of these issues.
And together, they have shifted the fundamental conversation in this country. So, let me say, especially to the young voters who have been inspired by Senator Sanders, I hear you, I know what's at stake. I know what we have to do.
Our goal, as a campaign, and my goal, as a candidate for President, is to unify this Party, and then to unify the nation. You know, it's in moments like these we realize we need to put politics aside and work together as Americans.
The Coronavirus doesn't care if you're a Democrat or Republican. It will not discriminate based on national origin, race, gender, or your zip code. It will touch people in positions of power, as well as the most vulnerable people in our society. We're all in this together.
This is a moment for each of us to see and believe the best in every one of us, to look out for our neighbor, to understand the fear and stress that so many are feeling, to care for the elderly, the elderly couple down the street, to thank the healthcare worker, the doctors, the nurses, the pharmacists, the grocery store cashier, and the people restocking the shelves, to believe in one another.
Because I assure you, when we do that, when we see the best in each of us, we lift this nation up, and we'll get through this together. That's how we've always done it.
God bless you all. And my special prayer for those of you in the frontlines of the crisis, doctors, nurses, healthcare workers, caring for the virus victims and their families, my prayers are going out for everyone.
My hopes are high because I believe, in times of crisis, Americans have always stepped up. We have to step up and care for one another.
Thank you all. Thank you all for listening.
COOPER: Vice President Joe Biden on a - a live stream from his home. He was saying clearly - kind of looks like it.
David Axelrod, I'm wondering what you make of what you heard from him, and moving forward, I mean if - if this is the way campaigning is going to be--
AXELROD: Yes.
COOPER: --they got some work to do just technologically and--
AXELROD: Well there's no doubt they need to invest in some production because this may be the way he has to communicate.
But the words, I think, were quite good. He spoke to the moment. I thought his tone was right. He looked like a guy who was ready to be President of the United States.
And, as of tonight, if you look at these delegate counts, he's - he's taken a big step forward to becoming President of the United States. But no one should assume that that's going to be an easy battle.
As I said earlier, the President is President, and he's President in time of crisis. That's an opportunity for him to - to solidify his situation. And - and he - we know is - is a wily candidate.
[21:45:00]
I just want to say one thing about what Alex said earlier. I have great respect for Senator Sanders and the issues that he's brought to the fore.
The thing that he has to think about tonight is he cannot campaign in the way that he would want to campaign. That Movement can't go door- to-door. It can't do the work that they had been doing.
He can't get coverage that he needs to get his point across because the coverage is going to be about this virus, not about - not about politics. We don't even know when the primaries are going to come.
And, as he himself said, he - he believes that the central issue is Donald Trump. If you look at these polls today, and every primary we've seen, what Democratic primary voters have said is their principal concern is to choose a candidate they believe who could beat Donald Trump.
It's one of the reasons why Biden has done so well. So, as someone who, I believe, does care deeply about the outcome of this, I think these are weighty issues for Senator Sanders.
Everything you said, I accept. He's - he's giving voice to people who need a voice. He's pushing Democrats on some issues.
But, at this point, the question is are you aiding the President by prolonging this process, rather than coming together, and trying to influence the process in a different way?
And I - I think these are going to be a really - a really profound couple of days for him, as he ponders what he should do going forward.
ROJAS: Yes. I mean there's no question that tonight is a really good night for Joe Biden, and it looks like he is going to be the presumptive nominee.
I just don't think that necessarily, in this moment of uncertainty, when there are millions of people that are filled with hope, and are really scared, just like the folks that voted for Joe Biden, that we need to shame them out of the primary, and not let them cast their votes. I think that's a personal decision that Senator Sanders is going to have to make.
And, like you said, I think he's not done. He understands the moment that this is in. But there are, like I said before, and I think it's a very, very valid point, this is a very big generational divide.
And this will be the second recession that young people are going through under the current leadership's watch. And those problems did not exist - are not just caused by Donald Trump. They are over decades of policies that have been instituted by Democrats and Republicans.
And there's this new generation of leaders, young people, grassroot - grassroots activists, like myself, that are working to try and really, you know, bring out the best in Democrats, present solutions that match the scale, scope, and urgency of the problems that we're facing.
So, as Joe Biden speaks to us, and attempts to unify the Party, I hope that he recognizes, especially in moments where we're in the midst of a pandemic, you know, sort of kicking the can down the road about the bringing things back to normal is not going to cut it.
We need fundamental change that matches and meets this moment. And I think that is what constantly people are excited about with someone like Bernie Sanders, who focuses on the 148 million poor, close to or above the - a little bit above the poverty line.
BORGER: But I - I think what we saw tonight was that there is no normal anymore. And I - I can't recall--
ROJAS: I agree, yes.
BORGER: --I can't recall a time when somebody effectively locked up his Party's nomination. And in the speech he was giving, said, let's put politics aside here, because there is so much more we need to talk about.
What he didn't do is appeal to Sanders' voters because he sort of took the turn towards appealing to the entire country. And I think that there is time for him to appeal to Sanders' voters, and to reach out because, I agree with you, that is really important for him to do.
But tonight, what Joe Biden tried to do was say this is how a President needs to behave, and I'm going to talk to you as somebody who could be President of the United States.
COOPER: So--
BORGER: And - and that's what he made his speech about tonight, even as he locked up the nomination, which is kind of extraordinary--
COOPER: So let me - let me just--
BORGER: --when you think about it.
COOPER: --on a presidential level, how does it--
BORGER: Yes.
COOPER: --I mean, how does this situation work? How do you - so you have Joe Biden. You have Senator Sanders.
At some point, do they get together in a room, and sort of look just, you know, person-to-person, or with staffs, and sort of say, "Look, you know, we know what the - we know what the reality is. How do we do this that - that we all meet the same objective," "We" meaning Biden and Sanders, "meet the same objective of defeating Donald Trump?"
MCAULIFFE: Yes. I've been doing this a long time. I've chaired a lot of unity events in my day.
What will happen now is, you know, it's clear. I think the first day of the general election will start tomorrow. I think the math sort of speaks for itself. I think it's very incumbent for Vice President Biden to reach out to Senator Sanders, and all of the supporters, to talk about the issues that matter.
I think the Vice President did some of that in the debate the other night about the Bankruptcy bill, about free college, but this is just the beginning of the start of the process.
But listen, as I said earlier, Senator Sanders brought a tremendous amount of--
COOPER: Of course. But is it a negotiation? I mean, is it Joe Biden, you know, is it Sanders saying, "I want this and this and this, and I want this in the platform?"
MCAULIFFE: Sure.
COOPER: How does it all work?
MCAULIFFE: That is all going to go on, I mean.
BORGER: Yes.
[21:50:00]
MCAULIFFE: You know, listen, 2016, our Convention, I'll be honest with you, it was pretty rough.
There was a lot of booing that went on. At one point, Michelle Obama had been booed. I mean we don't want any of that to go on in the 2020, lead up to the general election. We can't afford it.
The big difference we have this year, Anderson, is that we have Donald Trump in Office, and we cannot sit by, and allow Donald Trump to have a second term. So, that is a dynamic that we've never seen before. So, ultimately, everybody is going to do the right thing. We have to come together.
But Joe Biden, tomorrow, has to talk to this nation. He has to come out with a responsible plan to deal with the Coronavirus. He has to come out with a responsible plan to deal with the economy because so many people are hurting. And this is what he needs to do every single day, as we go forward.
It is, now, about beating Donald Trump.
COOPER: You say the general election begins--
MCAULIFFE: Absolutely, begins tomorrow.
COOPER: --now?
ROJAS: But how does he--
AXELROD: Yes. But I mean I think you can't say two things at once. You can't - I mean there - there is a process that has to happen here.
And what Alex is saying is that Sanders represents not just himself but millions of other people, particularly younger people, large number of Latino voters. And - and Biden does have to show some sense of connection and regard for those voters.
At the same - by the same account, you know, there - there's just - this is over. It's over. The election is over tonight. I think that is very clear.
And so, Senator Sanders has to consider what is best in this moment, in the midst of this crisis, in the midst of a Battle Royale with a very powerful President, who will do just about anything to win that election. Is - is the value of staying in to make a point greater than the value of - of coming together, and trying to unify--
COOPER: Do you believe it?
ROJAS: I think that to say that it is making a point--
COOPER: Do you believe it so?
ROJAS: --I think kind of dismisses a lot of the folks that are putting in a lot of work.
AXELROD: Can he win? Can he win the election?
ROJAS: I'm not saying as whether or not he can win. I mean it's just got called right now, so I think that decision is going to come in the coming days, and I am not the one to make that.
But what I can say is speak for an entire generation of folks that feel really left behind that feel like--
AXELROD: Yes, I hear you.
ROJAS: --have been let down not by just Republicans but also by Democrats.
And so, in this moment, does it feel like we are also fighting for our future right now to - to push the presumptive Democratic nominee to adopt some solutions that actually match the scale and urgency of the problems that we're facing--
AXELROD: If they - if they contribute - if they contribute - if it does--
ROJAS: --I think that that is a very reasonable perspective, yes.
AXELROD: No. If it contributed to the defeat of the presumptive nominee--
ROJAS: I think it will. I think that I exactly--
AXELROD: --would that be - would that be - would that--
ROJAS: --why we're pushing for it.
AXELROD: --would that be--
ROJAS: I think that we need the enthusiasm--
AXELROD: No, no, but if he - if - if--
ROJAS: --to defeat.
AXELROD: --if lengthening the race and continuing this debate were to contribute to the defeat of the presumptive nominee, would that be in the interest - would that be worth the fight? ROJAS: That is not the question I think that I can answer at this point.
AXELROD: Well it's my question.
ROJAS: Yes. I mean, I can't answer that because we're still in the middle of a Democratic primary, and Bernie Sanders has to make up--
BORGER: But doesn't he--
COOPER: But we're not really in the middle of it.
BORGER: We're not.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: --done.
ROJAS: Yes, according to - according - yes, I say according to me, it's--
BORGER: But when you have more leverage--
COOPER: But - but the middle implies there's a long road ahead of - of elections.
BORGER: Sure.
ROJAS: Sure.
COOPER: You're saying you don't want there to be any more elections in this virus. You just said it's irresponsible to have people vote--
ROJAS: I didn't say that there is not going to be anymore elections.
COOPER: You said there should not have been voting today.
ROJAS: I'm saying that, moving forward, I think that everybody agrees, like Governor just said, that Universal Vote by Mail is definitely something that we should consider.
COOPER: Right.
ROJAS: If, you know--
COOPER: But that can't be done in - in the upcoming states. Just on a practical lays, I don't understand your argument, which is logistically you said, irresponsible to have elections today.
ROJAS: It is.
COOPER: When is it responsible? I mean 45 days?
ROJAS: I think that this is an unprecedented moment.
COOPER: Three months? ROJAS: And I should - we should all expect leaders to be able to respond to it.
I think that Universal Vote by Mail, the ability to do absentee ballots, the federal government has all of our information, they can do that, if they don't want to postpone primaries, to be able to protect and preserve Americans that--
COOPER: I know.
ROJAS: --you know, are going to go to the polls.
And so, in this moment, what we care about, right, is defeating Donald Trump. And I genuinely believe that the way that we're going to do that is going to have to address fundamental concerns to the American people.
And I think, at this point, it is OK for Bernie Sanders to continue to leverage the millions of people in his base that support these policies to try and be able to get the--
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: You know, you - you raise good points about--
ROJAS: Yes.
AXELROD: --about young people who have supported Sanders in large numbers, probably didn't come out in as large numbers as he would have liked, but supported him in large numbers over Biden, who's done poorly there. In--
BORGER: Yes.
AXELROD: --in some states, not Florida apparently, did much better with Latino voters. But it's also true that Biden is beating Sanders pretty handily in places that Sanders won in - in rural - rural areas, in small town--
ROJAS: I don't dispute that.
[21:55:00]
AXELROD: --blue-collar areas in, you know, he has - he has big leads in these suburban areas that were the key to Democrats winning in 2018, and taking over the House. That is a message as well.
ROJAS: I don't doubt that. What I also would caution and I think that it feels very reminiscent of 2016 right now where you have, again, trying to call the Democratic primary right now, not letting - I know that it's slightly different.
But I think the genuine concerns about places like Michigan and other states, where we were just talking about, some of these states like Florida are swing states. We still have a tough general election fight ahead of us. BORGER: Right.
ROJAS: And we have to motivate all of our base to be able to turn out.
BORGER: So, wouldn't it--
ROJAS: So I think the enthusiasm question, whether or not translates into a general election, and I think a lot of that ties into issues, I think also--
BORGER: So--
ROJAS: --is a genuine argument.
BORGER: So, if the existential goal is to beat Donald Trump--
ROJAS: Yes.
BORGER: --and wouldn't - I mean, one could argue, tell me if I'm wrong, that Bernie Sanders now has a lot of leverage.
And if he were to unite with Joe Biden, I'm not saying tomorrow, I don't know what the timing of it would be, and say "Here's what I want from you. Here's what we need to run on.
Here's what's going to be in our platform," wouldn't you argue, and - and maybe the Governor can talk to this, that Joe Biden would actually listen to him a lot more now, if they went into whatever kind of Virtual Convention they end up having, unified, and then Bernie Sanders' supporters would get a lot out of it.
ROJAS: Sure. And we have to wait for the coming days. But to answer, right now, in this moment--
BORGER: If Sanders do that?
ROJAS: --I can't do that.
AXELROD: We want you to make the decision.
BORGER: So, I get that.
ROJAS: That's what I would say.
BORGER: I get that. I get that.
MCAULIFFE: Nobody's expecting Alex and Anderson--
ROJAS: No. I don't think. That's what the question--
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: I don't know why I said that. I totally--
ROJAS: --that's what the question felt like.
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: But Terry?
MCAULIFFE: Well one thing - the other thing we got to look at the map. I mean the only thing is we've got to look at the numbers. It is virtually impossible.
AXELROD: Terry?
ROJAS: I don't.
MCAULIFFE: The numbers are hard.
AXELROD: One thing I would just say to you though as--
MCAULIFFE: Let me just finish. The - the numbers are the numbers. Nothing's impossible in this business.
ROJAS: I don't dispute that.
MCAULIFFE: But the numbers are very difficult. I agree with Gloria. I think Senator Sanders, a opportunity now, however they're going to figure out, however they're going to get together, going to your point, Anderson, he has a huge ability to help us frame what we want to do in our platform--
BORGER: Yes.
MCAULIFFE: --and our Convention, we need--
AXELROD: But Terry, he's got - but Biden - but Joe Biden and his staff, frankly, have to be willing and - and--
BORGER: Yes.
AXELROD: --and able to receive that like after that debate Sunday--
MCAULIFFE: Yes.
AXELROD: --I thought was kind of strange to me because why - why get into it as they did before and after the debate--
COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: --in a - in a race that they had pretty much won? Why not begin that process of healing?
COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: It has to start.
MCAULIFFE: Yes.
COOPER: Let's go back to Wolf.
AXELROD: So, we got to be unified. BLITZER: All right, Anderson, thanks very much.
David Chalian, you're taking a very up-close look at the delegate count, with these very impressive wins tonight in Illinois and Florida for Joe Biden. He's really increasing that delegate advantage, the all-important delegate advantage, making it almost mathematically very difficult, if not impossible, for Bernie Sanders to win.
CHALIAN: In such a significant way, Wolf. This is the math behind that conversation you just heard. This is why we know Joe Biden is going to be the Democratic nominee, and taking on Donald Trump in the fall, not Bernie Sanders.
Just look at tonight, first in Illinois, 155 delegates at stake. So far, so far, we've been able to assign 31 to Joe Biden and seven to Bernie Sanders. We still have a 117 delegates in Illinois to allocate, but that's a 24 net delegate haul out of Illinois.
Look in Florida, 219 delegates at stake, 84 for Biden, 25 for Sanders. That's nearly a 60 - 59 delegate haul there, a net gain. We still have a 110 to go.
Joe Biden, who entered tonight a 150 - a 153 delegates ahead of Bernie Sanders, he's - he is already collecting, as a net gain, he's going to get more than a 100 delegates to add to that tonight, and much more. He's probably going to be close to doubling.
BLITZER: Yes. This is where it stands right now?
CHALIAN: Yes. You need 1,991 delegates to win the nomination. Look where Joe Biden is. 9,600--
BLITZER: 900.
CHALIAN: Sorry, 968 delegates to Bernie Sanders' 732. That is a 236 delegate-lead. That is - that is - there's no coming back from this.
BLITZER: Yes. And - and if you take a look at the percentages, you see what he's won so far to date, and what Sanders has won so far to date.
CHALIAN: That's right.
These are the percent of the delegates won to date that we've allocated so far in this contest, from Iowa through those first four early states. 53.7 percent of those delegates have gone to Joe Biden, just changed on us, but you saw that it was a 40-something percent that has gone to Bernie Sanders.
I mean, Wolf, this is a significant lead in the raw numbers, in the percentages there, 53.7 to 40.6, and look at the percent of delegates they need to win, to hit that magic number of 1,991.
Joe Biden only needs 47 percent of the remaining delegates. I just showed you, he's winning - already won 53 percent of them. He is way ahead of pace. Bernie Sanders needs 57.9 percent.
