Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Event/Special

Kamala Harris Makes History as Vice Presidential Nominee; Barack Obama Delivers Blistering Attack on Trump; DNC Night 3 Midnight Oil Analysis; Biden's Acceptance Speech Tonight; Plasma COVID Cure Controversy. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired August 20, 2020 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: You've got the dynamic duo here for the power hour, Chris Cuomo and D. Lemon and CNN's special coverage of night 3 of the DNC.

We are now less than 24 hours away from what has to be the main event, the presidential nominee himself, Joe Biden, delivering his convention address.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: His running mate, none other than senator Kamala Harris, really she was the star of the show on this third night, putting her name in the history books as the first woman of color to accept a nomination on a major party presidential ticket.

CUOMO: She brings a lot. I mean, obviously, being Black and Indian, her background and she is a straight puncher. She will go right at Donald Trump step-by-step and Joe Biden will need that. That is not his strength.

What really captured the moment tonight for the context of what a Harris-Biden ticket means was former president Barack Obama. We've never seen him this way before. He seemed troubled. He was grave in his assessment. He did a speech, alone, in a room in Philadelphia, in a museum. It was intentional.

LEMON: He was Dad. He said, kids, come into the family room, it's time for a family meeting.

CUOMO: It was a family meeting, it was a dad offering a talk where I cannot fix this for you. You are going to have to do this for yourself. It was a grave assessment of a grave time. Again we have never heard Obama or any commander-in-chief speak in this tone about a fellow president before a national audience.

We want you to listen to it because it is going to matter for days and weeks to come. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have sat in the Oval Office with both of the men who are running for president. I never expected that my successor would embrace my vision or continue my policies.

I did hope, for the sake of our country, that Donald Trump might show some interest in taking the job seriously.

But he never did. For close to four years now, he's shown no interest in putting in the work; no interest in finding common ground; no interest in using the awesome power of his office to help anyone but himself and his friends; no interest in treating the presidency as anything but one more reality show that he can use to get the attention he craves.

Donald Trump hasn't grown into the job because he can't. And the consequences of that failure are severe: 170,000 Americans dead. Millions of jobs gone while those at the top have taken more than ever.

Our worst impulses unleashed, our proud reputation around the world badly diminished and our democratic institutions threatened like never before.

So let me tell you about my friend, Joe Biden. Twelve years ago, when I began my search for vice president, I didn't know I would up finding a brother. For eight years, Joe was the last one in the room whenever I faced a big decision. He made me a better president and he's got the character and the experience to make us a better country.

[02:05:00]

OBAMA: And in my friend Kamala Harris, he's chosen an ideal partner who's more than prepared for the job; someone who knows what it's like to overcome barriers and who's made a career fighting to help others live out their own American dream.

More than anything, what I know about Joe and Kamala is that they actually care about every American. And they care deeply about this democracy. They believe that in a democracy, the right to vote is sacred, and we should be making it easier for people to cast their ballot, not harder.

They believe that no one -- including the president -- is above the law, and that no public official -- including the president -- should use their office to enrich themselves or their supporters.

They understand that in this democracy, the commander in chief doesn't use the men and women of our military, who are willing to risk everything to protect our nation, as political props to deploy against peaceful protesters on our own soil.

Black Americans chained and whipped and hanged, spit on for trying to sit at lunch counters, beaten for trying to vote, if anyone had a right to believe that this democracy did not work and could not work, it was those Americans, our ancestors. They were on the receiving end of a democracy that had fallen short

all their lives. They knew how far the daily reality of America strayed from the myth.

And yet, instead of giving up, they joined together and said somehow, some way, we are going to make this work.

Any chance of success depends entirely on the outcome of this election. This administration has shown it will tear our democracy down if that's what it takes to win.

So we have to get busy building it up, by pouring all our effort into these 76 days and by voting like never before, for Joe and Kamala and candidates up and down the ticket, so that we leave no doubt about what this country we love stands for, today and for all our days to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Never heard it. I think, even listening to it again in context, we were hearing sound bites before, it's more stark -- starker than the first time I heard it.

He was delivering a message, as I said, kids, I need to sit you down and tell you, you are off track. You to get your act together or else. And I think that resonated with a lot of people in this country. I hope people were listening.

CUOMO: If he is, you know, known as Captain Even Keel, you do have to ask yourself, why -- wow, why is he so upset?

What he so worried about?

And if you have a former president, who is worried enough about the impact of this election to give a call for you just to go out and vote the way he did -- and a little bit of a shame campaign there -- and none of this, I don't want to get sick or it doesn't matter enough, think about all the people who brought us to this point.

I have never seen him like that before; that significant. I've never seen a former president like that before. That is significant. It's another marker, we say to each other all the time. We have never ever lived through anything like this before. Tonight's performance by this former president is one more reason that's true.

LEMON: We have never lived through so many people living with such denial and such cognitive dissonance that they have to make every single excuse for this president but ultimately I think for them so that it can be OK that they are prioritizing racism and prioritizing misogyny, sexism, xenophobia, all for the possibility, maybe, of more money, you know, coming back from their taxes and so on.

[02:10:00]

LEMON: Really, the people, the bulk of his supporters are people who don't get the tax break, who vote against their own interests when it comes to health care.

CUOMO: That's why you can't undersell the culture.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And are the biggest identity politics players ever. There's an identity that goes along with Trump supporters. And they are trafficking in identity politics -- maybe even -- not maybe, even more so than traditional Democrats and Republicans.

They are trafficking in identity politics and they have become -- this president has led them down the road to the land of hypocrisy, I think, more so than any other --

CUOMO: There are a lot of culture warriors, Trump knows it. He reaches out to them. Those who back the president and say it's not about that, well, then you are ignoring it. If you ignore it, you empower it. And if you are a culture warrior, then you are complicit in every lie and deceit he tells.

LEMON: Tonight, what Barack Obama did is exactly the reasons that this president doesn't like him. This president could never deliver a speech like that. He could never be that presidential, never be that commanding and has not risen to the office as the --

CUOMO: Here's the tough question.

Would he bother Trump as much if he were white?

LEMON: No. Come on. As the former president would say, or a Joe Biden, come on, man. Of course not.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: That tells you everything you need to know. I will tell you, I would dislike you just as much as if you were white.

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: Let's get to break. Angela Rye and Paul Begala. We will be right back.

LEMON: I'm going to let that one slide. We will be right back.

(LAUGHTER)

(MUSIC PLAYING)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:15:00]

(MUSIC PLAYING)

CUOMO: D. Lemon and I are putting together the new version of "The Mod Squad" here with Angela Rye and Paul Begala to talk about the impact of the night.

So you've got history for sure, Angela.

It's not a Left/Right, it's just a reasonable thing. If we embrace diversity, you have to look at Kamala Harris as something that speaks to hope of the future of this country.

What is the significance on that level alone for people to take home, Angela?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it's major. I think it's something that's really important and that is, if you embrace diversity as something that's very important then, right, but the reality of it is -- and a lot of people, Kamala Harris does not spark hope, she sparks fear.

And nevertheless I say, welcome to the party, I am dressed for the occasion. It is a historic night.

LEMON: Oh, my God, Angela, me, too --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I was just going to say, Angela, you dressed up for it and I didn't know if you dressed up for it tonight or if you're going on a date, but you do look good, I have to say.

RYE: Honey, I am dressed up for Kamala and that vice presidential speech she gave tonight.

I want to tell Paul, tonight, you had yourself a convention. Now we are looking like we are ready to rock. Now we are looking like party time has started. Now they're looking like primetime. Now they are looking like they are trying to win.

I don't know what the last two days were. But today, Paul, you have yourself a convention.

CUOMO: Paul, correct me if I'm wrong because I had to go to work tonight and I did miss a little of it, were there any white men who spoke tonight?

(LAUGHTER)

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: You know, well, Joe Biden kind of wandered in for a little while at the end of Kamala's speech. But no, I don't --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I don't think I've ever seen that. It was women and mostly women of color. Women and --

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: My crowd, the white men have -- LEMON: There was one, right?

BEGALA: -- look this up, I'm an expert, 48 vice presidents in a row. We are 48 and 0 over a 230-year span.

So if we are going to even have equality, that means no white more men until the year 2251?

LEMON: No, I don't know.

BEGALA: Angela is in on that. So my point is --

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: -- this is what happens when you expand the talent pool, you get more talent. People think that guys like me, white guys who are Democrats, that we are for diversity for some PC, softy, touchy-feely -- no. I'm for it because you get more talent when you bring in more talented people.

CUOMO: You change your primary calendar so more of them have a chance to win.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: How do you think you are going to get diversity out of the three of the first four states you guys have in your primary calendar?

BEGALA: Oh, they should definitely change that. No question. But that's all --

CUOMO: Actions speak louder than words. It's the title of one of my favorite songs.

BEGALA: -- I'd like to start in South Carolina but Iowa did pick Barack Obama.

CUOMO: You got to pick diverse states if you want the electorate to respect diversity in the rolls. You guys are a step behind on that one. Actions speak louder than words.

You know who sang that song?

Angela Rye?

RYE: There you go, Chris Cuomo.

CUOMO: The Ghetto Boys sang that. I told you you didn't know the Ghetto Boys.

(CROSSTALK)

RYE: Listen. Your mind is still playing tricks on you. You guys -- somebody needs to get Chris delivered. You can't even get past yesterday.

Chris, do you know you have to do?

CUOMO: I'm being honest.

RYE: You have to go forward, Chris. Tonight, we have all of these women telling you the importance of going forward and, yet, you still are sunk in the past. You just need to push forward --

CUOMO: Change takes time. Change takes time.

OK, Paul Begala.

RYE: Chris, you need deliverance.

LEMON: Deliverance. "You sure got a pretty mouth."

CUOMO: So listen --

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: That's not what she meant.

Continue.

LEMON: I just had to do something to stop you guys.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: We are talking about diversity here, when you say bring more diversity to the tent, that -- because some in America might think that you are serious. That doesn't mean "no white men."

That means that there is a bigger tent. You include people. America looks --

CUOMO: You're kidding but Ted Cruz will say it 10 times tomorrow night.

LEMON: Oh, Begala, they will talk BS until the election.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: One second and -- but that means looking like the roll call from yesterday.

Go on, guys.

[02:20:00]

BEGALA: When 100 years ago they started the Negro Leagues because didn't let Black people play baseball with white people. To my generation, that's impossible, it's stupid. So you get Jackie Robinson, you get Hank Aaron, you get Willie Mays. Baseball got a whole lot better.

They didn't do it for PC reasons. They did it because when you let more talent in you get more talent. To me, it's a very simple thing. And I do want to talk about how

Barack Obama was deployed tonight if I can. I think that is really astonishing.

Usually you use your elder statesman, your former presidents, your beloved two-term president Barack Obama, last night your beloved two- term president Bill Clinton, you use them to validate.

This year, the Democrats are using them to eviscerate. And that is unprecedented. I think it's great because it allows then Kamala tonight to take the high road, which usually, the job of the V.P. is to --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Aah.

BEGALA: Barack did that. Bill Clinton did it yesterday to allow Joe Biden to be the good angel. So I think it's a really important shift in the way these conventions are managed. I know what President Obama said; he meant it. It wasn't simply strategic but that was not a speech. It was a 9-1-1 call. And I think we have to take it seriously.

CUOMO: Angela, I favor Kamala 'Harris ability to throw straight punches. Joe Biden needs the help with that. He could challenge people to push up-contests but he should really like never say that again.

And they are going to need a foil because you saw Trump's response. I believe he helped Obama tonight with what he was tweeting in real time, because he was showing himself to be exactly what Obama fears him to be.

But how necessary is that in a Kamala Harris?

I will stipulate the point to Begala that, tonight, nobody was more grave or heavier than Obama was. But the need for Harris to be a puncher or a fighter against Trump.

RYE: Well, I think that Kamala Harris demonstrated today that she can prosecute a case against anyone. And she did so without even having to say his name any more than one time, right?

It was about the immorality of the presidency and, as Paul said, it was nicely set up by Barack Obama.

But you know how else it was nicely set up?

The whole itinerary tonight started with Gabby Giffords. It was immorality and the unconscionability (sic) in white supremacy and bigotry that would have attacked Gabby Giffords in this way.

She said she's building back one word at a time and from that, we went to Elizabeth Warren, with the Sesame Street, woke Sesame Street (INAUDIBLE) because BLM was nicely placed in the Black background.

Oh, I said background! Even that, right?

And then Hillary Clinton comes in and says Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd and also says Black Lives Matter.

Do you remember, during the campaign in 2016, where Black Lives Matter had to force the way into the mouths of Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton?

Now it rolled off her tongue. I love this Hillary. Like I love her. It was amazing and they all set up this very, very nicely done speech by Kamala Harris. I just could not be more impressed with what happened tonight. I really couldn't. I feel like they touched climate change and health care and the economy. I mean, it was good.

LEMON: Can I talk to you guys about something?

Go ahead, Paul.

BEGALA: Angela made an important point. You have to get to the real lives of real people, not theory. So when Hillary said this -- remember back in 2016, when Trump asked what do you have to lose?

Well, now we know. Our health care, our jobs, our loved ones, our leadership in the world and even our post office. OK, that's real life for real people. That's not an abstraction.

LEMON: And dignity.

BEGALA: That's the cost of having this man in office. It's your life, your job, your health.

CUOMO: What are you working on, Don?

LEMON: Here's what I'm thinking about. We talked about the Wizard of Odds, Harry Enten, about the support of Joe Biden with Black people, that he's not polling at this moment as well as Hillary Clinton.

I thought of something very important that was in "USA Today,"

I'm not sure if you saw it, Angela, but they talked about Kamala Harris' private army, right?

I don't think we're talking about -- I'm going to preface it.

My mother, who's in Louisiana, talked to me the day after John Bel Edwards won in a red state. They thought he was going to lose. My mom said she could not go to a red light, a car wash, the Walmart, the supermarket, anywhere she was going, without seeing AKA or a Delta Sigma Theta, Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority sisters at the red light, giving a car wash, passing out pamphlets, saying get out there and vote, signing people up to vote for John Bel Edwards.

A Democratic governor in a red state. Kamala Harris will have that army behind her and I think people are underestimating it.

[02:25:00]

LEMON: And if you don't believe me, read the article that was in "USA Today," that talks about her secret army, the one that most people are not even thinking about.

Angela Rye.

RYE: She referenced the Divine 9 in her speech tonight as well, for those who do not know what she's talking about, the power of Black fraternities and sororities.

Absolutely, that is the case. I also don't want us to mistakenly believe that the Black base is monolithic and all is one at this convention. There are more people today who are more excited than yesterday. I'm one of them.

But I think there are still some miles to go. So when you talk about Joe Biden's support with the Black community, there is some reckoning that has to happen. So often in our community is a divisive conversation. Hell, Don, you and me (sic) have fought about it a little bit.

What does accountability look?

What does it look like and can we get to the point where real love, where real intention around winning, is pushing you to be your best?

We are not pushing you to perfection but we are perfecting you. I think that is an important distinction.

Accountability looks like growing, it looks like saying, you know what, maybe I didn't get this right, I am open to other ways of doing things. And I think that's where we have to go in order to get to a victory in November.

LEMON: But it's different, we disagree and we fight but we call each other afterwards like, look -- if we fight on television or even on the phone, it's --

RYE: Or on text.

LEMON: We just disagree. It's not like we don't love each other. It's the same thing with Chris. We don't agree all the time. If Paul and I disagree, it's over, I'm done.

(LAUGHTER)

RYE: Shut up.

BEGALA: It's a Louisiana-Texas thing, I guess, Don, right?

(LAUGHTER)

CUOMO: I believe you can't carry a grudge. I did block Angela Rye, though.

RYE: No you didn't, stop lying.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I tell people to send me their favorite song. You don't know the Ghetto Boys sang that song.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: It was one round, long fight.

RYE: Let's go, let's go.

LEMON: You are like an old vinyl record. You are stuck. Move the needle off the record. Just blow on it, it will move over.

CUOMO: Put the needle on the record --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Angela Rye, Paul Begala, thank you very much, have a good night.

Congratulations, Angela Rye, congratulations Paul Begala, I hope your team represents the kind of enthusiasm that meant it tonight. We will see how good a job they do. Be well, we will be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAR POONAWALLA, CEO, SERUM INSTITUTE OF INDIA: -- because no single company, including Serum Institute, will be able to produce everything that the world needs. Especially if we're talking about a two-dose vaccine.

So most probably, dare I say, the coronavirus vaccines that are been developed, I think 70 to 80 percent are going to end up being two-dose vaccines if we want long-term protection and real coverage to be sure that it's protecting you against the disease.

So I think we're going to reach out to as many partners as we can. Because if we license two or three vaccines, we can't make all of them at the same time. We're probably going to license out some of the other products later on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: All right. So now that the Democrats officially have their ticket and they have a call to action from former president Barack Obama, the likes of which we've never seen or heard before.

In fact, I would argue we've never seen Barack Obama as grave as he was tonight in a political context.

So what does it mean about the state of play? Let's bring in Kirsten Powers and Ron Brownstein.

Good to see both. I hope you and your families are healthy and doing well during this time.

It's good to see you. Honestly.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SNR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you too.

CUOMO: So, Kirsten, look, Kamala Harris is historic. Boom. No question about it.

She also give some added muscle to Biden's ticket in terms of the ability to go toe to toe with an opponent which I think he needs.

But in terms of what this party needs, how complete is this ticket?

KIRSTEN POWERS, "USA TODAY" COLUMNIST: Oh, well I think it's an incredible ticket if you're looking at it as a Democrat.

Because it's something that -- Joe Biden, I think, has this long history with democratic voters, he has the endorsement of President Obama who's incredibly popular with the Democratic base. Who I think gave him the best possible endorsement tonight that he could possibly wish for.

Saying that he was the last person in the room when President Obama made decisions. That this was a person he knows can do the job, and also knowing Kamala and giving her his endorsement as well.

And then I think she just brings -- she brings excitement. She brings her own -- I thought tonight she was incredibly warm. At the same time, she's very tough. Which is a very hard thing a lot of times for women to pull off.

And I think that she pulled it off perfectly.

CUOMO: Ron, as Kirsten was saying, Obama regards Biden as a brother.

He was also talking to the brothers and sisters tonight about the history of voting and what he fears is renewed suppression.

How important is that call to action? Meaning how important is it for the vote turnout among black and brown voters to be different than it was in 2016, if Biden and Harris are to win?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, particularly among black voters, it's important.

From 2012 to 2016, we saw the largest election to election decline of black turnout in the history of census records. It dropped seven points and it was critical in many of those states.

I thought -- and obviously the call to action has been a repeating theme throughout this convention -- I thought tonight was really revealing, though. Because what they did was very effective.

The issue may be more what they did not do, have not done that much of in the first three nights.

You look at Kamala Harris, her personal story is very powerful. The historic breakthrough she represents is very powerful and mobilizing and turning out the people who are moved by that breakthrough is a key part of how Democrats win, if they win.

But it's not the only part, Chris. And the one thing that still seems to be missing from the first three nights of this convention is very much the same thing that was missing in 2016.

Which is a direct economic message for blue-collar white voters in the Midwest. Who they still need to win to carry those key Rust Belt states who may not be as moved by the historic breakthrough, some of who may even be put off by the historic breakthrough.

And may not even respond to Obama's very strong and very legitimate arguments about the threat to the democracy.

That's the big piece that Hillary Clinton didn't do in 2016. It's been the big piece missing so far this year.

And it really falls to Joe Biden, Scranton Joe, tomorrow -- tonight, to show he's going to practically improve the lives of people who are struggling right now. And have been, maybe, voting for Donald Trump in 2016.

Kirsten, Secretary Clinton spoke to this tonight as well as a reminder of what happened in her election.

Here is her "Ghost of Christmas Past" message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D) 2016 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: And don't forget, Joe and Kamala can win by three million votes and still lose. Take it from me.

So we need numbers overwhelming so Trump can't sneak or steal his way to victory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:35:00]

CUOMO: Now she lost because she didn't get the turnout she needed in the places where she needed it. So it's not just about popular vote, it's about targeted vote as Paul [sic] was talking.

POWERS: Right.

CUOMO: You think the Democrats have learned?

POWERS: Yes. So, absolutely. There's just no question. And I think that the message through and through this entire convention has been the importance of voting and the importance of turning out. And I think part of President Obama's message tonight, and it was

pretty subtle, was towards a lot of probably younger voters of color who supported Bernie Sanders and also who are pretty disenchanted with America right now.

And pretty disenchanted with systemic racism and a lot of issues that haven't really been addressed before and we are seeing for the first time even being brought up in the convention, which is unusual.

But saying yes, America has this history, and there's a lot of things that are wrong with this country but really making the case that ultimately, you don't want to let down your ancestors who fought so hard to get us to where we are.

And I think that's a message that's very important because I think so many people have sort of lost faith in the American experiment. And coming from Obama, it's very powerful, a very powerful reminder.

CUOMO: A little bit of the reminder, the bromide. "You've got to be the change that you want to see."

Kirsten, Ron, thank you very much. For Ron, it's a little bit earlier but Kirsten, for you and I it's actually 2:30 in the morning.

But I have to tell you, this is an opportunity that I dreamed of being able to have again when I was sick. To have the energy to be back --

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

POWERS: Yes.

CUOMO: -- with great minds and great people like you guys. So it is really, really --

POWERS: We're glad you're back.

CUOMO: It is good to see you both.

BROWNSTEIN: Exactly.

CUOMO: God bless, stay healthy. I'll talk you both soon.

All right. Now, coronavirus. It's on my mind. Why?

Well, one I'm still struggling with it. Two, I'm learning all the time how many people are still struggling with it. These long haulers. All right.

We are too caught in the immediate in general in this country. Have you ever noticed that? How like we're all in when the fire's really hot and then the flame is still going, but we move on.

Flint, Michigan. Still jammed up, by the way, but we don't care, right? We don't go back to places.

COVID, I worry, is going to be the same thing. Five and-a-half million cases but that number's kind of like a fog now, right? Just keeps going up.

170,000 dead. Is that so different to you than from 160,000 dead? Will be that different to you from 200,000 dead? Right? But it should be, right?

Because this president's been part of his days suggesting that health officials in his own administration are playing politics.

The man who said to your face he takes no responsibility for what's happening with our response to the pandemic.

But here's what we have to stay with. It's real and the science tells us it will not go away unless we make it.

I want to bring in our expert doctor to talk about convalescent plasma. OK. What this president is calling politics may be our best practical answer to the situation. What Dr. Fauci is saying about a vaccine.

Where we really are. The facts from a doctor. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:40:00]

LEMON: Two words. Blood plasma. We have talked about it a lot as a potential therapeutic.

But new reporting from "The New York Times" now says the FDA's emergency approval for it as a treatment now on hold.

The recommendation was made by a group of top federal health officials including Dr. Anthony Fauci himself. They argue the data on its effectiveness is too weak.

In response, the president said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It could be a political decision. They want to do it after November 3rd. And you've heard that one before.

But I've heard fantastic things about convalescent plasma. And we should have it approved if it's good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: We all know Trump is no doctor. That's why I've got one here to discuss.

Doctor Amy Compton-Phillips joins me now. Doctor, thank you so much. Good to speak with you again.

So blood plasma has been used to treat other infectious diseases and it seems to have shown promise with helping COVID patients. So what do you make of Dr. Fauci and others urging caution. Is that

the right move?

DR. AMY COMPTON-PHILLIPS, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: I think it's a great move.

So what Dr. Fauci and the other docs are recommending is to actually finish the randomized double-blind trial that they are doing right now led by the Mayo Clinic. Because it takes a while to figure out what works and what doesn't.

If you declare victory before you have proof, you end up with the hydroxychloroquine craze again, right, that -- you can't just declare victory. You end up with pseudo-science and snake oil.

And that's not what we want. We want real treatments and we need to prove whether or not they work.

LEMON: Or oleandrin or whatever the next thing is, the weird thing is.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: (Inaudible) light (ph)?

LEMON: To the president, he can't see any other reason why we shouldn't rush this other than it being a political hit. So what's the harm in rushing something that shows promise?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Well, because you don't know whether or not it works. And we're all aghast at what Russia did, right? Approving their vaccine before it's proven.

But then now we want to approve a treatment that we haven't proven ourselves? So what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

So I think if we want to base our treatment in science than we need to let the science occur so that we can judge whether or not things truly do work.

LEMON: And then there's a vaccine. Speaking of vaccines, this is what Dr. Fauci said earlier.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Having a vaccine is very different from proving that a vaccine is a safe and effective.

We have six vaccines now. We haven't proven them yet. Before and until you prove it's safe and effective, you really do not want to be talking about having a vaccine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Now, it's going to be some time before we have a vaccine but there's a new poll from CNN that shows that 56 percent of Americans, 56 percent of Americans, say they would take it if it existed now.

Actually, Doctor, that's down from 66 percent just in May. What do you make of that? Would 56 percent be enough?

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: I think that we're going to have to tell the story, we're going to have to show people that it is effective.

And we need to actively counter the science-denying, vaccine-denying messages that get broadcast across social media and across all these channels of disinformation that surround us right now.

So I think it's up to all of our leaders, all of our leaders in government, from the CDC -- we need to take their muzzle off, allow them to speak -- and talk about the incredible benefits that immunizations have in our country.

LEMON: One problem that vaccine trials have come across is that they haven't enrolled enough minorities.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Yes.

LEMON: How important is it at creating an effective vaccine, Doctor?

[02:45:00]

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Hugely important. The vaccine has to be proven to work in everybody.

And right now, communities of color, minority communities, are suffering predominantly from the virus, more so, in an outsize way, than white people are.

Unfortunately, the history with the systemic racism that you all were talking about earlier in the country has hit medicine as well.

And so we have not earned, as a profession, the trust of communities of color as well as we have white communities. And so it's up to us. We need to do the work.

Make sure that we are working very tightly with communities to help them know that we're looking out for them, and that they need to design with us the trials that they would be comfortable participating in.

LEMON: One thing about the way we have been doing the news now. We've been getting to see a lot of the inside of people's homes. You have a beautiful home there, Doctor.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate.

LEMON: It looks really gorgeous. If I come to Seattle, I'll have to visit. Thank you very much.

COMPTON-PHILLIPS: You're welcome any time.

LEMON: Dr. Amy Compton-Phillips. We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:50:00]

CUOMO: You know, one of the advantages of working over the course of two days every time you're on television is that you move closer to major moments in real-time.

Don and I started working on Wednesday, but it is now Thursday morning. Meaning today, Joseph R. Biden will have a chance to meet the moment as he delivers his acceptance speech in the finale of the 2020 Democratic National Convention.

Now so far, we know he doesn't intend to make Trump a central figure in his acceptance speech -- and that's good because bashing him -- my father used to say any jackass can kick down a barn, it takes a good man or woman to build one.

What is he offering that's better, Don? That's the test for him or do you think it's got a few different sides to it?

LEMON: I think it's got a few different sides to it.

He's got to differentiate himself from the president not -- well, more than just, I'm a decent guy, I'm a good person.

He's got to say what he is going to do, how he's going to -- what he's going to do about health care. Quite frankly, what he's going to do about people who are unemployed and don't know where their next meal's coming from. Or if they're going to have a home come the fall.

What he's going to do about these payments to people because they've been on quarantine, can't go to work because of the COVID virus. He's got a lot to talk about.

What is he going to do? What sort of action is he going to take? How is he going to help all people in this country?

I was speaking to a group of friends tonight and I said this president is in the danger that he's in now because he has failed to increase his folks. Right?

He's failed to -- his tent. He has a smaller tent now and he's failed to remember that he is a president of all Americans. So Joe Biden has to tell people how he's going to be the president for all Americans.

And bring in young voters as well. Motivate them.

CUOMO: It's tough to fit more people into places called Yosemite (pronunciation) and Thailand (pronunciation). He gives you a lot to have to defend.

Now I do think there is a challenge for Joe Biden on a personal level. I think he has to speak to personal change.

One, because he's running against the guy who says he's never done anything wrong, he's never had to ask God for forgiveness and never admits a mistake. But he does have a disconnect with younger voters, especially voters of color.

And I think Joe Biden can use Kamala Harris in that decision as a coefficient of evolution, and how he's changed as a person.

Because he's got things to explain to people, especially younger minority voters. And that's going to be important for him tonight as well.

LEMON: Yes. He does, he does. He does and he doesn't.

I think that as a person who's younger than Joe Biden, let's put it this way and Kamala Harris --

CUOMO: But you're not a young person of color.

LEMON: And younger than you.

CUOMO: You are not a young person of color.

LEMON: Yes, I am. I'm 27 years old.

CUOMO: Doesn't matter how much (inaudible) you put on your face.

LEMON: I'm 27 years old.

CUOMO: Your tie is older than that.

LEMON: I know what you mean. But I think, people, here's the thing. I think that listen, there is nothing like time on the planet. That's wisdom. It gives you time on the planet.

I admire young people. Especially the young folks of all ethnicities who are out there on the streets fighting for rights for me and for you. For all of us.

But what young people don't have sometimes -is - well, most of the time is wisdom and a lot of the time is strategy. And so they look at things in a 2020 lens that happened in 2006.

Look at the 2004 speech that President Barack Obama gave. About this is not a white America, this is not a black America. This is a United States of America.

And we look at that now after what happened with this administration and President Trump and we go, oh, well, that was quaint.

Because we do have, whether or you like it or not, a black America and a white America and a Latino America who have never been more divided.

CUOMO: Well, don't you think that Trump is reaction formation to Obama?

LEMON: Yes, yes. But so I'm saying what young people have to do is give Joe Biden a chance. People do evolve. And, as I said, my analogy about public

transportation. You have to go with the person who gets to close as to where you want to go.

You cannot look at something that Joe Biden did in 1970, 1980, 1990, through a 2020 lens. That was simply --

CUOMO: But he's got to explain why that's so.

LEMON: That was simply a different time then. He's got to tell them if you're talking about the --

CUOMO: But he's got to state it.

LEMON: -- 1990 Poor Crime Bill, you've got to tell them all of the Black Caucus was for it, most of the Black Caucus. Most of the black politicians were for it.

He didn't have a crystal ball then. He didn't realize how many people of color it was going to put --

CUOMO: No, but he's got to say it. You're saying it --

LEMON: That it was going to put in jail --

CUOMO: -- but he's got to say it.

LEMON: -- in prison. It did sadly, and yes, he has to explain himself. But also people who are out there voting, young folks, have to remember, you lived through it. I lived through it.

The crack epidemic. So on and on and on. There's a difference with heroin and opioids, now it's a problem.

[02:55:00]

Then it was just, put these people in jail because they're are bad people.

CUOMO: Well, then he had crack.

LEMON: So -- right. And that's --

CUOMO: That's what started the push to put people in jail.

LEMON: So yes, I agree with you. But also people have to become more educated. And -- what's the word I want to say --they have to become more -- they have to become politically literate. Right?

And literate about culture and the times that we're in.

CUOMO: Well, and they have to have a practicality.

LEMON: I love fire and venom.

CUOMO: You can't let perfection be the enemy of progress. LEMON: Right. I love fire and venom but you have to have a

practicality. You're 100 percent right on that.

What was the other thing you said? You said something and I cut you off.

CUOMO: You can't let perfection be the enemy of progress.

LEMON: Yes. No.

CUOMO: That if he's moving you in the right direction, you have to take it where you find it. Or not. This is the decision they have to make.

And it's his case to make. He has been carried in this convention well. And I don't mean that a criticism, that is the job of the convention, to build up momentum for the nominee. Now he has to address where we are.

These are dark days.

Yes, we both know and as we both kind of sneer at, very often, the politicians are putting on you with these fugazi fixes and how everything is worse than it's ever been and this is the election of the generation.

And it's actually true this time. It's actually true this time.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: We're in a pandemic. And if we don't get better leadership, it's not going to go away.

LEMON: Yes. Oh, I --

CUOMO: And our kids are going to lose a year of their development.

LEMON: Well, all he's got to do is stand up there and say look, you don't think I'm the better president then you go out there and drink some bleach.

You don't think I'm a better president, then you go inject some bleach or sunlight inside the body. I rest my case. Goodnight.

CUOMO: If it's not short a speech, you and I are going to have a lot of time to talk.

LEMON: But it's the truth. And the truth will make you free.

CUOMO: All right, my brother. I love you, D. Lemon. It's always good. I wouldn't want to do this with anybody else.

LEMON: Can you give me a ride home?

CUOMO: Done. Thank you for watching, all of you. It is a blessing for us to be with you. The news continues here on CNN.

LEMON: Tomorrow night.

CUOMO: See you.

LEMON: At midnight. We'll be right back.

CUOMO: See you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(CNN SOUNDBITE)

DR. WILLIAM HANAGE, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF EPIDEMIOLOGY, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: I would suggest that masks need to be used alongside other things like just simple physical distancing.

We know that it's much less likely that transmission occurs if you're outside. If you're outside and you keep your distance, six feet or more from other people then that's going to do alone a great deal to stop the transmission of the virus.

So don't think that masks are the solution. They are a part of the solution.

There is no silver bullet that is going to destroy -- that is going to defeat this virus.

It is unquestionable that if you deny the virus the opportunity to transmit, that slows the pandemic down.

If you deny it enough opportunities to transmit, it will go extinct.

So everything that you can do.

[03:00:00]