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CNN Live Event/Special
CNN Special Live Coverage: RNC Night 1; Guilfoyle And Kirk Fire Up RNC; Wisconsin Shooting Hailed With Riots; How Have the Polls Changed for Trump Since 2016; Protests Spread After Police Shooting of Jacob Blake; Trump Continues Railing Against Mail-in Voting; Interview with Colorado Secretary of State Aired 1-2a ET
Aired August 25, 2020 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LAURA COATES, FMR. FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Involved shooting, that he is not, at this moment in time, deceased. His family is able to see him at some point.
His three children were in the car. He was going to an area where his three sons were in the car.
The idea (ph) that we're in this perverse state that we're talking about somebody who was shot seven times. And the question is what else could he have done? Well, de-escalation is the key.
Remember, the idea of using lethal force can be justified, but only if it's used to repel what would be a lethal attack against the officer.
And we don't have right now any indication whatsoever that there was going to be lethal force used, or that there was a weapon that he was reaching for. And the officers can't just presume this.
They have to be careful, that is true. They have dangerous jobs.
But they cannot assume that everybody is armed in the sense that they can shoot at will.
And so the idea of seven shots as opposed to having de-escalation to figure out what could've been used, could a taser could have been used, could a tackling have been used?
We watched a 19-second video, which means there are about 19 seconds in which an officer could have de-escalated.
And there were four officers initially, two we then in the actual screen, in the actual video in the shooting. And so you have to wonder about this.
But ultimately, it's going to come down to -- what's going to come down to the investigation. What will they find within this 30-day period? What did the witnesses say? What could the officer have done?
And most importantly, what would a reasonable officer in this situation have done? That's going to be important, Chris. Because the supreme court has
case law that suggests it's that reasonable officer standard.
Not what you and I would have done but because there are other officers on the scene we actually have in realtime. Did they shoot? What did they do? What was their perceived threat level and how did they act?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Laura Coates, thank you very much. As we get the facts, we'll fill them into the analysis.
No one better than you. God bless you and the family. Be well.
COATES: Thank you. God bless, thank you.
CUOMO: Welcome back to CNN special live coverage. The first night of the Republican Convention.
Chris Cuomo, D. Lemon. This is how we do, during the conventions. You'll have us for the duration.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: This is how we do it.
CUOMO: That was my jam. You should've seen me on the skates. You should have seen me on the skates going backwards.
LEMON: Wait, you could skate backwards? Oh, I was just --
CUOMO: No stoppers, no stoppers.
LEMON: You took the words.
CUOMO: No stoppers.
LEMON:. You didn't wear stoppers?
CUOMO: No, I was too cool.
LEMON: Oh, I had the stoppers. I had to have the stoppers.
CUOMO: A Cavaricci hyper color shirt, remember that?
LEMON: Oh. The Z --
CUOMO: Remember that? Can I touch your shirt --
LEMON: The --
CUOMO: -- and give you my (inaudible).
LEMON: Z Cavaricci. Now, did you have parachute pants?
CUOMO: Of course I did. Capezios, white, black and grey.
LEMON: Oh, you were -- you went there. I just had --
LEMON: Paper route money well spent, brother. Well spent.
LEMON: I had the members only jacket. And --
CUOMO: Course you did. You still do.
LEMON: It's back in, they're back in. C'mon now.
CUOMO: I seen you with the sleeves up.
LEMON: C'mon now, little parachute pants. Little --
CUOMO: So why are we talking about this?
LEMON: Because --
CUOMO: Because we're self-soothing. That's why.
LEMON:. Because --
CUOMO:. We were self-soothing.
LEMON: Because sometimes you just need some levity when things are so serious. You just covered that very serious story.
We just covered -- quite honestly, the Republican -- the first night of the convention. It really took a dark turn, don't you think?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: It was very ominous.
CUOMO: American carnage. That's how the president inaugurated his administration. And it continued tonight.
If you don't elect Trump, the blacks are going to come where you live. If you don't elect Trump, they are going to come and riot in your neighborhood.
If you don't elect Trump, this country's going to change for way you'll never recognize it again.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That's the message. Now, a lot of people are going to want to hear it. Here's the problem though.
You want to talk about what's wrong that's real, that's resonant? Talk about the pandemic. They were crazy light on that tonight because they have a president who ignored it for way too long.
LEMON: Well, and I would say 177,000 people dead and then this president and this party pretending the president has done a good job with that many people dead?
All you have to do is look at other countries and look at their death rate and look at how they've handled it and pretty have gotten behind it. This is not political.
If anyone is politicizing it, it is this president.
And I would say that they did a lot of rewriting of history, they did a lot of rewriting of the president as well, right. And they rewrote history as well, the long deadly history of race in this country.
For example, I want you to listen to -- and this is important because I interviewed her right after she took down the confederate flag in her state.
But this is former South Carolina governor Nikki Haley.
Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: In much of the Democratic Party, it's now fashionable to say that America is racist.
That is a lie. America is not a racist country.
This is personal for me. I am the proud daughter of Indian immigrants.
[01:05:00]
They came to America and settled in a small southern town. My father wore a turban, my mother wore a sari.
I was a brown girl in a black and white world. We faced discrimination and hardship but my parents never gave into grievance and hate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: What did you think?
CUOMO: Look, a personal story is very compelling. That's why she was seen as a transitional figure in that party before she sold out to Trump. She's one of the people who's going to fit under the heading 'she knew
better' what this man was about and what he was pushing.
And if there's no problem with systemic racism, why did she have to take down a confederate flag in her own state?
LEMON: Amen. I'm glad you said that. Because I was going to say the same thing.
The Nikki Haley who I respected and interviewed when she took the flag down -- I don't know who this Nikki Haley is. She never mentioned confederate, she didn't say the word confederate,
I don't believe --
CUOMO: No.
LEMON: -- in that speech. She didn't talk about the hardships that people are facing now.
Grievance? Why does being honest about this country, the history of this country, the president of this country, the stories that you just covered with Laura, how people are -- why is that grievance?
Why is telling the truth grievance, why is leveling the playing field so called reverse racism? Why is that? There's no such thing.
I keep telling this to you. What does reverse racism mean? That would mean equality. I hate it when people say that. It is the dumbest, stupidest thing.
To say that people in a sense are discriminated against reversing means they're getting equality right now. And just because the playing field is being leveled, just because space is being opened up for other people does not mean other people are being discriminated against.
It's just that they are finally understanding what it's like to really have equality as an American.
I don't understand why Nikki Haley would say grievance, I don't understand that whole grievance thing. It really annoys me and it's just a talking point.
CUOMO: Well, also -- I wish you were more right. I wish there were more space being made. I wish there were more opportunity being advanced.
LEMON: Not happening?
CUOMO: No. What phase are we in right now? We're in the grievance phase, which is we need to change this.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: This is embarrassing to us as a country that the world looks to because of our diversity is our strength. Because of a set of ideals that joins us, not some class system. And notice what she said --
LEMON: Were our founding fathers grievance -- founders, when they weren't happy --
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: -- with what was happening here?
CUOMO: Yes. They ran here --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- from people who were trying to kick their ass. I mean, that --
LEMON: Isn't it part of the constitution, if you have something -- if you think something's wrong with this country then you --
CUOMO: Redress of grievances.
LEMON: OK.
CUOMO: You go to the government.
LEMON: I'm just saying.
CUOMO: That's one of the freedoms that we have. That's fundamental.
LEMON: Didn't mean to cut you off. Sorry.
CUOMO: But -- please. So if you listen to her story, I take it word for word true.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Her parents never turned to animosity and hate. Yes, her parents were not the problem. Her parents were being victimized by people who did turn to animus and hate. Because it is natural for an unconditioned human being to fear what they don't know.
And that is why it is the job of leadership to bridge the unknown, to encourage experience and messaging that sparks the imagination in positive ways about what we should mean to each other as human beings.
This president is doing the opposite and he's doing it because it works for him.
And Nikki Haley knows that because she used to say it. What's changed? He's only gotten worse and more inflammatory. What's changed? That would be my question for the former governor.
LEMON: But listen, this president is the guardian of western civilization, did you know that?
CUOMO: No.
LEMON: That's what Charlie Kirk says.
CUOMO: I know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE KIRK, FOUNDER, TURNING POINTS USA: We may not have realized it at the time but Trump is the bodyguard of Western civilization.
Trump was elected to protect our families from the vengeful mob that seeks to destroy our way of life, our neighborhoods, schools, churches and values.
President Trump was elected to defend the American way of life. (END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, first of all, how can you be a bodyguard with bone spurs? But what -- I know, I'm sorry.
CUOMO: I feel bad for Charlie Kirk.
LEMON: What does it mean destroy our neighbor --
CUOMO: I feel bad for Charlie Kirk.
LEMON: Why?
CUOMO: One --
LEMON: Well, he's young.
CUOMO: I feel good for him that he got this -- that he got this kind of platform.
LEMON: He's young.
CUOMO: It really speaks to what they're dealing with in that party in terms of who they can get out there to give full-throated endorsements of what this president's about.
But I feel bad for him that he believes that that's the world he lives. That he's being kept from going to church. Why, because of a pandemic?
[01:10:00]
I want to go to church, I miss going to church. I understand there's a pandemic. You know who else does? My priest understands it.
Oh, but you can protest. One has nothing to do with the other.
You are dealing with people who are responding in this country to outrageous acts of social injustice.
To say well, it's the same as going to church. No, it isn't.
LEMON: You know who else --
CUOMO: If you told people they couldn't protest, if you invoked marshal law about these types of situations, you would have chaos. And he knows it. So it's said that feels that he has to stoke this kind of animus in this country.
LEMON: You know who else knows there's a pandemic if you go to church? God, he's all knowing. He knows. He knows your heart. So he knows if you can't get to church because there's something going on, I think he might forgive you for that. I'm pretty sure.
CUOMO: There's only man I know who's never had to ask him for forgiveness. LEMON: Oh. Is that the president?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: Why would I have to ask for forgiveness? I've never done anything to need God's forgiveness.
LEMON: Well, listen -- I don't know, you said you felt sorry -- but I don't know that I was young once, it was a while ago.
And I remember being in college and having certain beliefs. And then all of a sudden, you get some wisdom, time on the planet. And then you see a lot of things and you realize what's true and what's not.
CUOMO: Well, he's wise to what works. And it's why a certain slice of the evangelical community has gone from character counts to let's count judges instead of character.
He knows what sells at that convention. That's why he got the standing tonight. But I think -- I hope people heard his message.
LEMON: Why's that?
CUOMO: Because this is a real judgment on what you believe about this country.
If you really believe that people who don't look like you are a threat then time to make your stand.
LEMON: What is the American way of life? What is the neighborhood, what does that mean? What does that mean?
CUOMO: Well, look, at its most basic -- I don't love this definition -- but at it's most basic under law you do whatever you want to do as long as it doesn't affect my ability to do whatever I want to do. That is the most libertarian way to look at it.
I don't see us that way. I see us -- this is how I was raised.
That you look to one another for what you need and as brothers and sisters. You support one another, you learn from one another, you embrace one another, you cry with one another. Because there but for the grace goes one of us and not the other.
That's what I believe we're about. And that the more you embrace somebody as part of your life and learn from them and share, you grow and you get appreciation for things you would've never known on your own in your own experience.
But there is a fight in this country that what I just said should be rejected. Stay to your own.
If we do that in America, Don -- we don't have our own.
LEMON: Well, that's what we do.
CUOMO: But we can't do that. It's not --
LEMON: That's what -- well, not me and you. But that's what people do.
CUOMO: It won't work, it won't work. I'm getting yelled at. We got to go to break.
LEMON: Tell me something new.
CUOMO: This is our experience whenever we are on television. And you know what you guys always say? Why did you stop? Talk to everybody else.
All right. The Republican Party is absolutely a party of one.
You watch tonight Donald Trump knows what message he wants communicated. And if you're on that screen, that's the message you're given.
So what do Republicans think? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:15:00]
LEMON: Kimberly Guilfoyle getting a lot of attention tonight for what she said at the Republican National Convention and how she said it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE: You have the ability to choose your life and determine your destiny.
Don't let the Democrats take you for granted, don't let them step on you. Don't let them destroy your families, your lives and your future.
Don't let them kill future generations because they told you and brainwash you and fed you lies that you weren't good enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Who was she trying to convince? Who was she performing for?
A Trump campaign adviser tells CNN that Guilfoyle's shouting was weird and a separate source close to the Howard Dean's famous "Oh, we're going to Iowa, we're going to Michigan."
That was back in 2004, for those of you who don't remember.
Joining me now is a former Republican congressman Charlie Dent, Republican strategist Alice Stewart and Amanda Carpenter, she's a former communications director for Senator Ted Cruz and the author of "Gaslighting America: Why We Love It When Trump Lies to Us."
Good evening, one and all.
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hi, Don.
LEMON: I haven't seen you guys in -- Charlie, I saw you the other week but I haven't seen you two in forever. Good to see you, good to see you.
AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good to see you, Don.
LEMON: Thank you for doing this. So, Amanda, let's start with you -- as my mic falls off here. Let's start with you.
I have to get your reaction to Kimberly Guilfoyle's speech tonight. Listen, people perform the way they perform, but that was odd. What did you think? What was that?
CARPENTER: A lot of people are saying that the convention was dark and sad but I can't remember laughing out loud as much by myself ever in my entire life.
That was the most deranged public performance I have ever seen. People compare it to the (inaudible) scream. That was a Dean scream that was a full-length movie. I thought she was going to start speaking in tongues and we were going to see like a real Trump revival.
I still can't -- I almost have -- I couldn't remember what happened after it because I was just so stunned.
[01:20:00]
I will never forget that speech. It was maybe the most memorable event of the year. And I'm not kidding.
LEMON: Go ahead, Alice.
STEWART: Don, if I can say something? Look, I think you brought up what she said and how she said it.
I truly from a communications standpoint don't have a problem with that as much as the fact that that was taped earlier today. And why was it that someone didn't say stop, time out, hold up, let's do that again and maybe tone it down a little bit.
That's the real question as to why did that not happen?
But the reality is she's speaking to an audience of one, President Trump. And I'm sure she got a two thumbs up for this performance.
LEMON: You don't think it was an audience of two, though, Alice? Maybe President Trump and his namesake, her boyfriend, no?
STEWART: You're probably right about that. But then again, he also was pretty vocal and forceful in his speech as well.
But clearly -- look, I didn't knock any of the Democrats for the style and substance of theirs because the whole thing with no audience, it's weird and it's awkward.
But that one certainly, as Amanda said --
LEMON: I agree with you.
STEWART: -- is kind of right on up there as a meaningful, memorable moment.
LEMON: That's why I said people perform the way they perform and they have their own styles, but this one was really, really out of the ordinary -- unusual.
And I have to say, Kimberly is a communications professional. She was on the news for a long time.
She knows what works or at least -- and doesn't work but in this whole setting, zoom sort of setting and no audience, maybe -- who knows? I don't know. Maybe -- I don't know.
Anyway, Congressman Dent, how are you, sir? I want to bring you and talk about this.
And before we discuss, I just want you to take a listen.
This is some of the president supporters before he was the Republican nominee.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TED CRUZ, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to tell you what I really think of Donald Trump.
This man is a pathological liar. He doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. He lies, practically every word that comes out of his mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. RAND PAUL, (R-KY): Donald Trump is a delusional narcissist and an orange-faced windbag.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR: Donald Trump is everything I taught my children not to do in kindergarten.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Donald Trump the other day said that, quote: "If he tells a solider to commit a war crime, the soldier will just go do it." He said. "They'll do as I tell them to do."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICK PERRY, FMR. SECRETARY OF ENERGY: Donald Trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservatism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised and discarded.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, FMR. MEMBER OF FLORIDA HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: We have a con artist as the front runner in the Republican Party.
You all have friends that are thinking about voting for Donald Trump. Friends do not let friends vote for con artists.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. LINDSEY GRAHAM, (R-SC): I think he's a kook, I think he's crazy. I think he's unfit for office.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes. And we missed the one where Lindsey Graham also called him racist.
So Trump has not changed. If anything, he is worse and more off the rails.
So why do these Republicans -- why are they his biggest supporters now, Congressman? What happened?
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don, it's mystifying to me that the attacks that they leveled against Donald Trump back then in 2015 and 2016 were very personal in nature. They were not policy disagreements.
And so then to flip and say hey, I'm all on board with this agenda after making those statements is outrageous.
Now look, I had been very critical of President Trump when I was in congress and I didn't not use any of that rhetoric to describe him, frankly.
But I've tried to be consistent. I was not going to support him for many of the reasons they did. But I just don't know how one can flip. But look, a guy like Ted Cruz, he's trying to protect his seat in Texas and he needed the president. They were making accommodations for what they considered to be their political survival.
And I've always felt like -- I always liked the job in congress, it was a wonderful honor and opportunity and privilege to serve.
But at the same time, it didn't mean everything to me. I wasn't going to sacrifice what I believed in to support somebody who I felt was so glaringly unfit to hold the position that he holds.
So, again, it's a mystery. But some people, I think, are more interested in maintaining power or being close to power notwithstanding whatever criticisms or objections they have to the president.
LEMON: It's got to be hard to sleep at night for a lot of those folks.
Amanda -- let's see. Most Republicans, though, support this president still even though they may say that they don't like what he says or what he does or how he acts and they say some of the same things that these former Never-Trumpers or whatever said -- but they still support him. What is that?
CARPENTER: Politics is a team sport. But you think back -- look at all those clips you just played where Republicans -- people I admire, people I worked for were speaking their minds frankly about Trump.
And then he creamed them all. He won and so they tried to get on board. I think a lot of them are privately -- grumble about it.
[01:25:00]
But now going into the election we are seeing more defections than I've ever seen from a party since I've been around.
Certainly, we didn't see Republicans defecting from Trump like -- from Bush or Obama like they are Trump. This is really strange, what's happening. There are a lot of Republican voters, Republican staffers, former members of congress who are not supporting him --
DENT: Hello.
CARPENTER: -- who are openly putting their names and saying I'm going to vote for Joe Biden. And so --
LEMON: Charlie's raising his hand.
CARPENTER: And so -- you can't discount that. We've got one here.
LEMON: I got to go, Alice.
CARPENTER: It's crazy to think about.
LEMON: I got to go. But quick, I know you want to say it. Go for it.
STEWART: Yes, just real quick. One thing that's important to keep in mind. It's a little more than just the fact that he's the head of the party.
Look, Donald Trump was just as abrasive and abusive and offensive when he ran in 2016 as he is now. But the people supported him because they believed in his policies and his ideology. And that is exactly why people in the party --
LEMON: Well, I understand --
STEWART: -- are right behind him.
LEMON: I understand that answer. I understand that answer. But all those people up there knew what his ideology was and everything he stood for. And they still said really terrible things about him.
And then all of a sudden, none of that changed and they are -- their tunes are changing.
I understand about people in the party and judges and all of that. But for those people who we played, that had nothing to do with it.
And also one person that we did not talk about who you -- who was on this network, this program -- well, my program, a lot was Kellyanne Conway. The same flip.
And then -- now she's leaving, but there you go. I got to run. Thank you. Good to see both of you.
CARPENTER: You too, Don.
LEMON: You all look very nice and tanned and good.
DENT: Take care, Don.
LEMON: All right. Our next guest says the road for President Trump will be tougher for him this time around.
Tougher than 2016, is that true? And he'd know because he is the Wizard of Odds. And that's Harry Entin.
Oh, Harry -- shoot, I forgot. I have a baby picture of harry I got to put in the system so we can see what he looks like. He's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:30:32]
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Quick check. You know how many -- how many days we have until election day? 69 and counting. So, how is it looking? What kind of road does this president have to reelection on the first night of his party's convention.
Let's bring in the wizard of odds, Harry Enten -- what a nice looking hairdo. Let's see if your analysis is as good as your look -- CNN senior political analyst.
All right. Something that is shocking to me to remember, because I knew this back in 2016, credibility is Trump's biggest flaw, his ability to tell the truth in the American people's eyes.
Tell us though about your first slide about where he was in 2016 and where he is today.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think this is just so important, Christopher. Remember, you have to face off against somebody, right? So at this point in 2016 who was seen as more honest? Was it Trump or Hillary Clinton? It was actually Trump by five points.
Now you flip (ph) forward to this year, what do you see on that same question? In our most recent CNN poll, it's actually Biden favored by 11 points. So it's just a completely different picture than it was four years ago at this point around convention.
CUOMO: Now first, it builds on an argument that people expect so little from politicians. They are so disgusted and yet familiar with the perfidy and the lying that Trump is always forgiven for how he is because he's being compared to a group of what they believe to be liars.
Now, let's look a little deeper into it. How Trump does with seniors and uneducated whites and why do we care about these groups.
ENTEN: Here's the reason why we care about these groups. These are two groups that formed Trump's base, right. He won both of them. He won whites without a college degree by 29 back in 2016 in the final poll. He won seniors by five points.;
Now take a look here. Among seniors, Biden is actually winning by nine points. Democrats haven't carried seniors since my bar mitzvah. And whites without a college degree -- look, Trump is still ahead but his lead is smaller, right? it's seven points smaller.
And this is what we are seeing across the board, that is, Trump's margins with the groups he's winning with are smaller than they were four years ago. And Biden tends to be doing better with most of the groups that Hillary Clinton did well with four years ago.
CUOMO: All right. Look, that's a great point. And you've been making it for a while that it's all about the matchup. Don't look at Trump in a vacuum.
So voters who dislike both candidates is a great metric because again, people don't like politicians. It's probably at an all-time low. So how do we see this?
ENTEN: Yes. So this is so important, right? Remember Trump was the least popular nominee of all time four years ago. But here was the thing, Hillary Clinton was also really disliked. 29 percent of voters at this point back in 2016, liked neither of the candidates. And Trump was leading among them by seven. Now that proportion of the electorate is considerably smaller, it is just 13 percent of the electorate. And more than that, Biden is winning overwhelmingly with them, winning by 20 points at this point and that is the key nugget (ph). It sort of cuts off that road that Trump rode to the White House four years ago.
CUOMO: Now, if you want to know why the parties are so desperately trying to motivate their bases, you see it in your depiction of the metric of undecided, whose mind isn't made up. What do we know?
ENTEN: Yes. So many fewer than four years ago, right? At this particular point four years ago, 20 percent of the electorate was either going for a third party candidate or was undecided. That number has been chopped by more than half. It's only 7 percent now which means there really aren't that many voters you can sway to one side or the other. And keep in mind, Biden is already over 50 percent.
So in my mind what you saw tonight in the Republican convention was the idea that we need to motivate voters who might not necessarily vote, get them off the sideline, get them in to vote for the president because to be honest with you, Chris, that maybe his only path to reelection.
CUOMO: And obviously, they get that. And that is why this RNC is what we are seeing. The Republican convention is going to play to the base. Everybody's got to get out if he's going to win within that base.
Harry Enten, well presented and thank you.
ENTEN: Thank you, my friend. Return my text messages.
CUOMO: I will when I want to.
[01:34:55]
CUOMO: That's right. He texts me and he's like hey, where is your picture of your dogs. You know, don't make demands on me for pictures of my dogs?
ENTEN: I want them.
CUOMO: Yes, I know. Say please. So --
ENTEN: Please.
CUOMO: No.
All right. We'll see, Harry. I'll send you a picture in the break.
As we go to break, Wisconsin's governor had to call in the National Guard. Why? Because of what -- what you are seeing. This is live picture out of Kenosha, Wisconsin. Why? Because we've had another situation that when you see it, it doesn't make sense.
Why did the police need to shoot this man multiple times in the back. And you can look at this and say see, here's the problem. Look what they do. Why, why are people in this community this outraged?
If you don't deal with the outrage, if we don't deal with this almost status quo in too many places in this country, how can they not be angry?
We're going to go live to the story, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CUOMO: Another community in this country is outraged by what it saw between one of its citizens and its police. Buildings and cars burning in Kenosha, Wisconsin right now. Violence erupting.
29 year old African-American man Jacob Blake shot in the back by police. Alive, fighting for life in the ICU.
From Colorado to Wisconsin, from New York City -- demonstrators demanding justice for Blake, witnesses say he was breaking up a fight between two women before the police were called.
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CUOMO: According to the family's attorney, why was Blake so determined to get back into the car? The attorney says Blake had three kids in the car -- ages 3, 5 and 8.
Now, what is making people so angry that they are doing this on their streets where they live? What you are about to see right now -- it is graphic, it is disturbing but if you want to understand the situation, you have to watch. Here.
(VIDEO CLIP OF JACOB BLAKE'S SHOOTING)
CUOMO: Why did they have to do that? Why didn't he listen? That is a zero sum conversation in this country right now. We have to do better in an analysis than that set of expectations.
Joining us now from Kenosha, Wisconsin is CNN's Omar Jimenez. Omar, I see you are in full gear there for the anticipation of them using anti-crowd control stuff. What has it been like there?
OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Chris, it's really a tale of two cities when you look at what this place looked like in the early afternoon and in the early evening hours compared to what it became when night fell.
Now the early evening -- or afternoon hours -- and again early evening were defined by mostly peaceful protests. People coming to make their voices heard and then as night fell, things got a little more confrontational with police and then what we began to see in places across Kenosha here were these images. Cars on fire, buildings on fire and multiple locations across the city and all the while police, you noted the mask that I had here earlier. That was because all the while police were trying to clear some of these crowds, bring tear gas into those crowds, sending some of those flash bangs as those crowds and demonstrators tried to get closer to police. But they stood their ground, waving their signs but police were drawing heavy battle lines and made sure that those weren't being crushed.
You played that video. The source of so much anger here in this community and country wide for that matter, , this is someone who is clinging onto life right now with the support of a community behind them.
But also as questions swirl over what exactly led up to that shooting, and why Blake ended up with seven shots in his back from a police officer. Well, we're seeing some of that pain expressed in a wide variety of ways here, Chris.
CUOMO: Omar, any indication of what happens tomorrow? Is this something that the people who formed the protests are saying every night, every -- what do we really know?
JIMENEZ: Well, we can imagine at this point just, sadly we have a lot of examples to compare it to just based on protests, even just this year.
We know these two officers that were involved here, particularly the one that fired the shots, are on administrative leave. The Wisconsin DOJ is leading the investigation into this.
These people wanted to see these officers charged and they want to see justice over what happened here. A lot of these protests centered outside of the Kenosha county courthouse here and obviously that's symbolic because that's where they want these officers to be brought and again, brought to justice in this.
So you can imagine, as we have seen in places across the country, again from Minneapolis, even Portland, Chicago that protests are going to continue until there is some form of progress or some form of statement made by authorities here that what happened is not tolerated and what happened is not who they are. We haven't seen that just yet.
Governor Tony Evers did put out a statement saying that this was inexcusable and that this was compared to events and killings even that we've seen in the past involving black men and police. But as far as the system goes, these officers are on administrative leave, again waiting this investigation to play out.
CUOMO: Omar, thank you very much.
Don, I want to give it to you. It's very interesting, you know, a study of two cities -- a tale of two cities as Omar put it, obviously borrowing from that storied reference.
The Democrats are saying we've got to deal with this problem. That's what their convention's about, you know. Systemic inequality has to stop.
The Republican convention is looking at the pictures of those cars behind Omar and saying this is what black lives matter is about. DON LEMON, CNN HOST: Well, we have to do both. And I think -- I think
I said this to you, you know, when we were covering Minneapolis. It's that we need police reform and we also need justice, right?
So we can do all of it together if we would just get together and talk and work it out or at least try to figure it out or work it out. You always say do your job, that's what our lawmakers need to do.
Let's talk some law right now though, Chris.
I want to get Joey Jackson in on this, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. Joey, here we go again, right?
We don't know a lot about this case yet. We know what we see. But when you examine that tape, tell me what you see?
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JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes Don, you know, good to see you. Look, the bottom line is this. We don't know a lot and I get, reserve judgment, wait for an investigation. But we see what we see. And those who see what we see, it's not pretty and it's so disturbing.
From a tactical perspective, did police act properly. I say, they did not. From a strategic perspective did they act properly, I say they did not. Did they need to have the gun drawn, following him like that, that they have tackled him there? Could they have used other reasonable alternatives?
And so when you look at it, and I know all reserve judgment, but from the judgment that I see, it certainly looks like the police overstepped in a significant way.
And so, you know, if you want to talk law, you talk about three things, Don, that are very critical.
The immediacy of the threat. Does it look to anyone and any viewer who's watching this that this person who now is in critical condition, I hope he gets and pulls through? Did it look like he was an immediate threat to the officers who were pointing a gun at him? It didn't look that way to me.
Did it look like he had a knife or anything in his hand? It didn't look that way to me. Did it look as the issue that the seven shots in the back is proportionate to what he was doing? It didn't look like that way to me.
And finally, Don, from a reasonableness perspective, did you have to shoot him seven times? Did you have to shoot him one time? Could you have used anything else besides lethal force?
And that's why it's so disturbing and that's why we're seeing throughout the country, people marching of all persuasions -- black, white, yellow -- doesn't matter. People are coming together and saying Don, enough is enough. LEMON: A stun gun, a tactical move to taking out. Because remember we
were watching Atlanta and we were thinking my gosh, these two officers couldn't subdue this, you know, this one man and now you're thinking that I think two or three officers in that video and they could not de-escalate with this man.
But here's what I know. I know they're going to say the officers, when he's going in the car, the officers don't know what he's going in the car, what he's is going to pull out, who's in the car and what threat. That's what they're going to say. We don't know what threat was in that car. Am I wrong about that?
JACKSON: No, you're not wrong at all. And of course, they'll also say, ok, well now, we know his children were in the car but to your point, Don, it could've been anything in the car. It could've been a dangerous weapon. It couldn't have been a knife. It could've been anything he's going to use.
You don't kill someone predicated upon speculation. You need some basis to believe you are in fear. You don't think, wait a second, if he gets to the car, he has a gun, he's going to shoot me. He has a cannon. He's going to use it against me. You can't do that.
You have to practically act based upon what you know and what you perceive. And when you look to the perception of a danger -- and look, I get it, officers have a difficult job. I understand that. I salute those who are out there, Don, keeping us safe every day and twice on Sunday.
But you can't shoot someone because of what you believe they're going to do, you have to shoot someone based upon what they are doing. And based upon what we see here, it's an overstep. I see nothing right about what I'm looking at there. And here we go again. And that's a tough place for us to be in at this point.
LEMON: Yes. It comes down to training. It will come down to training, that's -- and for a domestic dispute, should someone be in jeopardy of losing their lives like this gentleman was? He's in ICU now. Let's hope he pulls through.
Thank you, Joey. Appreciate it.
JACKSON: Thanks.
LEMON: President Trump again making baseless claims about mail-in voting. Our next guest is a top election official in Colorado where the vote -- where they vote by mail, I should say. And she is calling out the President for lying.
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CUOMO: It's interesting. One of the big lines at the Republican National Convention here on night one was, don't just listen to what they say, look at what they're trying to do. All right. Let's do that with the president. He is continually railing against mail-in voting. He is promising you that it can't be done well. He is promising you that it will lead to a contested election. He is promising you that the U.S. Postal Service will mess it up.
Then there was this Trump tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a postal worker. I deliver to the senior community during COVID-19.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good. And we're taking good care of our postal workers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
TRUMP: That I can tell you. Believe me, we're not getting rid of our postal workers, you know? They like to sort of put that out there. If anyone does, it's the Democrats, not the Republicans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: My next guest is one of several officials across the country calling out this president and his attacks on mail-in voting. Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold joins us now.
It's good to see you, Secretary of state. Thank you for joining us.
JENA GRISWOLD, COLORADO SECRETARY OF STATE: Thanks for having me on, Chris.
CUOMO: First, you're taking legal action. Why?
GRISWOLD: Because I will not allow the president to suppress voters. And that is exactly what he's trying to do.
CUOMO: How so?
GRISWOLD: You know, this president is willing -- well, he's willing to lie. He's willing to cheat. You know, our lawsuit specifically was about the Postal Service. He's been attacking the Postal Service because he has told us that he thinks it will stop mail ballots. And he thinks mail ballots will allow Democrats to win. And that's just untrue.
We've seen in Colorado, all parties, Independents, Republicans and Democrats use mail ballots. In fact, in our statewide primary, a higher percentage of Republicans use mail ballots just this summer. So we're not going to allow the President to risk the lives of Coloradans to try to tilt this election into his favor.
CUOMO: So I hear what you say about this past election. The basic attack by the president is fraud. And favoritism, you guys are all Democrats who want to do this, you're going to send it only to the Democratic neighborhoods, not the Republican neighborhoods. You countered that by saying, oh yes, then why did the Republicans use it more than the Democrats -- fine. So what about the initial attack which is, you don't know who you're sending them to. And that's going to create fraud. Just show up in person.
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GRISWOLD: Well, we do know who we're sending them to. We have a statewide poll book (ph). And, by the, way it's not just this last election that Republicans used mail ballots in a big way.
We've had more Republicans use mail ballots in the last two out of three general elections than Democrats.
So the president is hurting Republican voters, he's hurting Democrat voters. And I think it's just a shame that he's willing to risk the lives of Americans, of you and me to keep his political power. You know, I know you know COVID. I was so happy to see you get on the other side.
My mom's a nurse. She's been working at a COVID ward. And I think we all can agree, at least, hopefully you and me that we shouldn't be forcing Americans into crowded polling centers in the middle of a pandemic. And that's why vote by mail is so important right now.
CUOMO: Do you have any concerns as to whether or not you will be able to officiate the election with accuracy and completeness?
GRISWODL: I have no concern whatsoever. Colorado, we have the highest percentage of eligible people registered. We often have the highest turnout rate in the nation and also we're considered the securest state to cast a ballot because Russia cannot hack a paper ballot.
In fact, Chris, President Trump's own DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen commended us for our leading national security. It all comes down to vote by mail and every American should have the access to vote in their homes safely during a pandemic.
CUOMO: And you believe the Postal Service can get it done?
GRISWOLD: Well, I do think that the postal -- the postmaster general, excuse me, has been complicit with the president. And we need to call on him to return all the equipment that he has removed. And funding from Congress would also be nice, but in general, I do believe here in Colorado, we will have a great election.
Our election withstands postmaster generals and pandemics. And what this nation can do is look towards us. We send out ballots about three weeks beforehand. We have hundreds of in person voting sites. We have early voting. We have hundreds of drop boxes.
We believe in accessibility and we're going to have a great election in November.
CUOMO: Secretary of State, thank you very much. Good luck in your state.
GRISWOLD: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right. It was a big night for the Republican National Convention. You now know the flavor of the message of what they want you to believe. What is it? Next.
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