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CNN Live Event/Special
Republican Convention Takes Dark Turn on Race; CNN Special Live Coverage: RNC Night 1: Cuomo, Lemon, Dale: Conversations and Comments; Wisconsin Riots A Page In RNC Playbook; RNC Muted On Trump's COVID Response; COVID-19: Questions Continue. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired August 25, 2020 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you know when you hear that music, right, it's election time in America. And when you hear it at 2:00 am, it's usually Chris and Don.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: Welcome back to our CNN's live special coverage of the first night of the Republican convention. I am Don Lemon, along with that guy, right there, Christopher Cuomo.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Good to be with you.
LEMON: Good to be with you, as well. Good to be -- I'm trying to keep my eyes open right now.
So the message from the Republicans, Chris, was really to their base, right?
Vote President Trump into a second term or Joe Biden and the Democrats, they're going to take down the country. They're going to take it down the tubes.
CUOMO: And we understand why. First of all, fear sells especially in America. Especially, right now. But also, there are just not that many open minds in this election. Or, let's say, undecideds. So you really have to turbocharge your base.
The president knows that. His party's going to reflect it. And that's what you saw tonight.
However, you've got to do it the right way. Otherwise, you're going to get checked by people like us. And speaker after speaker rewrote the history of this president's time and effectiveness and the White House.
They ignored that we are in the middle of a pandemic. They exaggerated his jumping on it, his ownership of it, in ways that are, really, just really, really, insulting, seeing that you have families out there dealing with 177,000-plus lives lost. They did it on race, too.
CUOMO: They did. Senator Tim Scott, right, South Carolina, the only Black Republican in the Senate, Chris. He went after Joe Biden. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TIM SCOTT (R-SC): Joe Biden said if the Black man didn't vote for him, he wasn't truly Black. Joe Biden said Black people are a monolithic community. It was Joe Biden, who said poor kids can be just as smart as white kids.
And while his words are one thing, his actions take it to a whole new level. In 1994, Biden led the charge on a crime bill that put millions of Black Americans behind bars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Hmm. Well --
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: -- there are some people out there who are saying the first part about, you know, the whole vote for me or you're not Black or whatever, I think many people got it as a joke. They understood what it was. He has, since, said, Joe Biden, he shouldn't have said it.
But there are a lot of Black people out there going, well, where's the lie?
CUOMO: Well, it's -- look. I hear you. Also, I think there is a material distinction between the two men's gaffes. There is no question that we are not dealing with the two most accurate speakers in political history.
But when Joe Biden, in our experience during this election, when he says something that's a gaffe, it doesn't seem as though it is calculated to hurt someone; whereas, when this president gets called out for things, and, oh, yes, he misspoke. You know, tonight, I heard Rick Santorum say, when Anderson was pushing him about, what's up with the why Cory Booker's going to bring more Blacks to your neighborhood?
Why did he pick Cory Booker other than the fact he's a Black guy?
CUOMO: You know why.
CUOMO: Rick Santorum just says, you know, it's just the kind of thing that makes me scratch my head and makes me wish I wouldn't say it.
[02:05:00]
CUOMO: You know what, I've said it to Rick directly and you got to say it about him. No, it doesn't make you scratch your head. You know exactly why he is saying it.
Oh, I can't get inside the mind of the man.
Oh, please. If you were running against him, you'd go after him for that in a second.
And you know Rick is just symptomatic of what you see, too much, on that side. And then, after that, they say, well, I wouldn't say it. And it really just makes me just sick in my stomach.
Then, say, Mr. President, I'm a Republican. Stop lying. Stop hating. Stop saying these things. You're embarrassing your party. But they won't say that.
LEMON: There is always the outline.
Well, I don't know what's in somebody's heart.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Yes, until you're running against him and then, you seem to know everything about the man or woman.
LEMON: Do you really know what's -- I don't know what's in your heart, except for like a bunch of French fries.
CUOMO: Right now, a few cobwebs. It's about a third the size it should be. Not enough blood flow.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: But that's an excuse. Of course, you never know what's in someone's heart. You know their actions. You know the way they treat people.
You know, "where is my African American?"
"What else do you have to lose?"
They're coming to your neighborhoods we're saving.
What do you think all those things are?
"Cory Booker led by" -- what is that?
Do you -- come on.
CUOMO: Race baiting.
LEMON: That's telling you what's in their heart.
CUOMO: It's race baiting because he knows it scares people.
And why does it scare people?
Because you are playing on ignorance. You know, this society, you said it so beautifully, so long ago.
And you said, hey, white people, talk to your Black friends.
Don't have one?
Find one.
Black people, talk to your white friends.
Don't have one?
Find one.
You know, when do people go sideways?
Look. You had to grow up with this.
When do they go sideways?
When they've never met anybody like you, when they have only been exposed to media portrayals and scary, negative tales of people. That's what this president's playing on and Rick Santorum and all of them know it.
LEMON: Yes, but there's certain truths I don't want to say cop to but that you have to own up to, right?
About the history of this country. About where we are right now. You have -- you have to own up to those things or it means nothing.
If -- if we're in a relationship, if you're -- with your wife, you got to -- if you are going to couples therapy or you're talking to somebody, they're going to say, well, this is what you do. Here's the truth. You got to own up to it, right?
You got to say, well, that's the truth of our relationship. Yes, I did do that.
CUOMO: I'm well aware.
LEMON: So you have to do that with people you are not in a romantic relationship with as well. In a friendship or just in a neighbor or someone who is just a fellow American, you have to own up to those truth -- truths.
You cannot keep putting them off, saying that doesn't matter, are you ever going to be satisfied?
When's that going to be over?
Oh, slavery, oh, affirmative action, whatever. Those were all excuses that people, when they don't want to own up to the reality.
But it was -- Tim Scott wasn't the only African American who spoke tonight. There were a number. Herschel Walker spoke this evening. Let's listen to what he has to say and then, we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HERSCHEL WALKER, FORMER NFL PLAYER: One time, I planned to take his kids to Disney World with my family. At the last minute, Donald said he would like to join us. So there he was, in a business suit, on It's a Small World ride. That was something to see.
It just shows you what a caring, loving father he is. It hurt my soul to hear the terrible names that people called Donald. The worst one is racist. I take it as a personal insult that people would think I've had a 37-year friendship with a racist.
People who think that don't know what they're talking about. Growing up in the Deep South, I've seen racism up close. I know what it is and it isn't Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, let me tell you something. OK?
Let me tell you something. I've had friendships. I've had relationships with people who were racist. I've had friendships with people who didn't show their true colors until now, who, maybe, that I may -- I may have overlooked a whole lot of things about them.
But this administration and their -- their tendency, their reflex to make an excuse for everything this president does, to spout off talking points from this president and from the state television, state TV, about -- about issues concerning race and about issues concerning people who look like me in current events.
Yes, I may have been friends with you in the '80s, may have been friends with you in the '90s and early 2000s. I'm certainly not going to be friends with you now, when you are delusional because that's what it is when you continue to make excuses for racism.
And guess what?
If you're not a racist and you traffic in racism, what does that make you?
If you're not a racist but you don't prioritize issues that concern your fellow Americans, who look like me, what does that make you, as well?
[02:10:00]
LEMON: If you are concerned about a paycheck or a tax cut or any of those things and you prioritize that over my right to live the way that I deserve to live as an American, free and full under the Constitution, not to be killed or shot in the back seven times by a police officer.
Then, what does that make you?
So Herschel Walker, fine. I'm sure Donald Trump, it was great going to Disneyland with him and It's a Small World. But I have friends, yes, in my life, who I have been friends with since high school. I am no longer friends with them because they have shown their true
colors. And that true colors, those true colors, are racist. And, at some point, you have to let them go.
I said this to you last week, Chris. It's like an addiction. People, until they hit -- when they hit rock bottom and they realize they're wrong, if you truly want to be my friend, then you should listen. You must listen to me when I tell you there is a problem the same way that I will listen to you.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And It's got to go more than just one way. Over the last, however many years, if it just goes one way, you continue, you never change, you keep saying the N word, you keep doing this, you keep making excuses, at some point, I'm going to go, OK, bye.
Go on. Sorry.
CUOMO: No. No. No. Its an important point, obviously.
The -- look. Herschel Walker can be right. Donald Trump's always been nice to him. Yes, of course. You made his football franchise. You're famous. You're one of the best running backs and athletes in America's history.
LEMON: Preach it.
CUOMO: And you're a celebrity to him. So he's going to be nice to you.
But what about all the people that they wouldn't rent to?
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: What about the things that he had said about people of color in general?
What about his niece telling you that this is the way the guy is, this is what's in his heart?
This is what she heard around him his whole life.
And why else would he say the things that he does, that he knows are just dynamite to the situation of racial justice and balance in this country?
Why?
Why would he want to give the Black Lives Matter movement, which is the putative fight for social justice --
LEMON: To the Democrats?
CUOMO: -- to the Democrats?
LEMON: Makes no sense. Makes no sense. Chris, let me say this to you as well before we move on.
I grew up in the Deep South, too. There are many people down there who believe that being racist is saying the N word, actively doing it. It's also passive, as well. It's, also, unintentional, sometimes. Right?
It's, also, unconscious bias. Racism can be different up north as well. You can face racism up north that is completely different than the way -- many times, it's a head game, right?
Or it's just not done in the Southern way, where you have people walking around and you know, you have the good ole boy then you've got the -- it's not always that way. So you may think it's that way. Maybe, you have not -- maybe what your definition of racism or what you have experienced as racism is not the way it is all the time.
It's not just actually, as the former President Obama said, walking around, calling people the N word and saying how much you hate Black people and maybe you're carrying a tiki torch. That's not -- that's not exactly what racism is all the time.
CUOMO: But you do have to ask yourself why do people that ascribe to that kind of extreme animus back this president?
LEMON: Why do people ascribe to what?
CUOMO: Back this president. You know, when you get the real neo- Nazis, the real white supremacists, the real white nationalists.
Why do they like him?
Why do they back him?
LEMON: What do you think?
CUOMO: They don't back you. They don't back me.
Why?
LEMON: Well, you answer the question. Maybe, Herschel Walker can answer it, too.
A night of revisionist history from the president and the RNC. It may play well with the base. But independent voters.
Are they buying it?
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:15:00]
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CUOMO: Look, we all know it's part of politics that politicians say things to get your vote. OK?
But there has to be a line. And you can't allow any politician, not even the president, to say absolutely anything to invigorate the base because a lot of it is pushing ideas that are dangerous for us.
Like what?
You can't gloss over the inadequate response to the pandemic. We've lost 177,000 Americans. I know that number's starting to wash over you. But imagine if one of them were in your family.
And why else is it dangerous?
Because he's not changing his disposition. Sure, he doesn't say the don't wear the mask stuff anymore. But we still don't have the rapid testing that is the key to you and me getting our kids back in school for real, not this hybrid BS.
So let's bring in Ron Brownstein, Alice Stewart and Bakari Sellers. I will not -- author of "My Vanishing Country," by the way. Want to get it up there. Very nice. Bakari, good to see you.
Alice.
Professor.
That's what I call Ron.
Good to see each and all. I will not drag you into my school woes but I am not happy with what's happening in my state, in my community, in these expensive private schools. I'm not happy with the lack of innovation here.
So let's talk about how it plays out, at the convention level.
Professor Brownstein, there are not a lot of open minds on who to vote for. Harry Enten just gave us our latest number. It was about 20 something percent in 2016; 7 percent, as of right now. That's why we saw the base play we did tonight.
What's the plus-minus on?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look. The convention was -- the evening was kind of strange, right?
It oscillated between -- most of the night was kind of bouncing between this Donald Trump as the last line of defense.
[02:20:00]
BROWNSTEIN: The human wall between you, in the suburbs, and all of this violence and chaos in the cities with all the very thinly veiled racial overtones of that counterpoised against all of these, you know, paeans to Trump's benevolence and that he's not racist.
And then, Tim Scott and Nikki Haley, in pretty effective performances, not really talking about Trump but trying to say American society is not systemically racist and so, creating a permission structure, trying to win back some of the suburbanites who have drifted away on COVID.
But I agree with you. Overshadowing all of this for most people was the president's refusal and the convention's refusal to acknowledge the reality of what the country is going through on COVID.
And I think that just compounds the problem. You know, 60 percent of the country say he is not listening to experts and 60 percent says he cares more about himself and his politics than the country.
I don't see how it benefits him to deny what is the reality in everybody's lived experience on a day-to-day basis.
CUOMO: Alice, what's the play?
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look. Clearly, Chris, I'll acknowledge the administration and the president might have been a little slow out of the gate with their response to COVID.
But they have certainly risen to the occasion and are doing everything they can to -- to provide the necessary testing, to work on contact tracing, to work on finding us a vaccine and work on encouraging people to follow the CDC guidelines.
But also, at the same time, while we're working on the safety measures and dealing with COVID-19, also opening back stores, opening back government opening back schools and doing it in a safe way. And that is key and that's imperative to the message, here.
But look, Chris, as you know, how these conventions go. This president is not going to lose any votes by those who are watching and tuning into this RNC. His base is his base. They're not going anywhere. The same with Joe Biden. His base is his base. They're not going anywhere.
But the goal and the objective, for both of them, is to reach out to those swing voters and those independents and convince them that they not only have the right solution and policy to deal with COVID but also with the economy and national security.
So that is the key thing I will be looking for in the next few days is, what is Trump and this administration doing to reach out to those people, that are not already in the fold, that are, basically, 90 percent of the base that stands behind Trump?
How is he going to work and reach out to the swing voters and those who aren't -
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: So Bakari, how you feel about litigating the pandemic with independent voters?
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that's a failing strategy for Donald Trump. I hear my good friend, Alice Stewart. But there's nobody that can say that this administration has done anything right when it comes to the pandemic.
They were slow to react. They didn't follow guidelines. I mean, for Christ's sake, he didn't even wear a mask for the first two, three, four months of the pandemic. And then they reopened too soon in places like Georgia and Florida.
So I think what we saw is the president's strategy, his political strategy, has always been one of subtraction and division. But we all know -- and Ron is probably a better expert at this -- that politics is about multiplication and addition, something the president does not do well.
I mean, for those people who watched the RNC last night, you got what you went there for. Alice made a legitimate point. Nobody's watching the RNC, trying to figure out if they are going to vote for Donald Trump or not. They're not just going to waste two hours of their lives.
That is what they are going to do. And so, it was very red meat. It was -- that was the purpose of it. That was the goal of it. And, you know, it was pretty weird.
CUOMO: Let's play Nikki Haley because I thought there was an interesting demonstration of what was not said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: After that horrific tragedy, we didn't turn against each over. We came together. Black and white, Democrat and Republican. Together, we made the hard choices needed to heal and removed a divisive symbol, peacefully and respectfully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: That divisive symbol is called a Confederate flag, Alice. Nikki says that she couldn't stop saying it, at the time, as governor. Now she doesn't mention it. Now Trump Jr., gets up there -- and I know his son. It's his son.
But he should've stuck to saying why his father's a good daddy and not gotten into the politics of it. And it's odd that he didn't talk about him as a good daddy. But he then says we're not going to tear down our founders.
It's not about tearing down the founders. The Confederate flag isn't the foundation of America.
Why didn't Nikki mention it?
Why does Trump Jr. conflate it?
STEWART: I think it's important to note, first of all, that Nikki Haley made the right decision in taking down the Confederate flag. Being born and raised in the South, it is a hurtful symbol.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Why can't she say that at the convention?
STEWART: -- Don Jr. was trying to make more than anything is tearing down a lot of these statues is virtually rewriting history and taking away --
CUOMO: No, it's not. It's making a decision about whether or not to celebrate -- Alice, Alice.
[02:25:00]
CUOMO: Alice, I don't believe that you accept that, intellectually. Forget, you know, I'm not talking about morals. I'm not talking about values. We don't need to.
You can't believe that taking down a statue of a Confederate leader is rewriting history. It's making a decision about what you do and don't value.
You understand that distinction, do you not?
STEWART: Absolutely, Chris. And my point being is that, yes, there are a lot of these statues that have come down, that should come down.
But overall, if -- if the -- if we take this too far and we're just, anytime someone is offended by something, automatically, removing it whether, by force or by choice or by vote, that's not the way to go about doing it.
Some of the statues that have come down, absolutely, should have. But moving forward, we need to make sure that we're doing this, in a way that addresses people that are offended and want to take these down for all the right reasons and not do it simply to rewrite history.
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: Alice, I'll tell you what. When the bases aren't named after people -- and I'll tell you what, Alice -- the day that we start going past when all the people who are -- all the bases that are named after people, that wanted to treat Bakari Sellers' family as property, when they're all gone and people still want to go on and get rid of statues of George Washington, you come on the show. And let's say they went too far.
But we got a long way to go. I got to jump. I am out of time.
Ron, Bakari, Alice, thank you very much for having the discussion.
You know, it's not just -- it's not just tax, anymore, is it?
It's not just trade anymore, is it?
These are fundamental, definitional premises. I don't understand how you could make a compelling argument to Americans that getting rid of Confederate leaders is going too far. Oh, no, they want to go farther than that. Yes, but you're resisting
that move, Mr. President. You don't want us to change the names of bases that are Confederate leaders.
What is the good argument for that?
Don't conflate it by saying "and go too far by getting rid of everything." Don't bring cancel culture in, when it's a legitimate question of valuing the right things in our history. Big difference.
So there is a lot to fact check at the RNC tonight. We're going to bring in CNN's resident fact checker, Mr. Daniel Dale.
Daniel, we heard, tonight, that the president has kept all his promises. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I didn't back down from my promises and I've kept every single one.
We are going to appoint justices of the United States Supreme Court, who will uphold our laws and our Constitution.
As long as I'm president, I will never defund your police. That, I promise you. It's time to deliver a victory for the American people. We are going to start winning, again. It's called promises made, promises kept.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: So they always say they kept their promises.
But here?
DANIEL DALE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's kept some. I mean, he cited his promise to appoint conservative Supreme Court justices. He certainly has. And there's a bunch of others he's kept.
But every single one, Chris, just obviously not true. He promised that Mexico would pay for the border wall. That hasn't happened.
He promised to repeal ObamaCare. He did try, to some extent; didn't succeed.
He promised that the U.S. would hit 4 percent, at least, economic growth, per year. That hasn't happened.
The fact checking website monitored 100 promises. They found that he's broken 49 percent. So whatever you think of the calculation, certainly, not every single one kept.
CUOMO: All right. I want to play another piece of sound. This is from a local politician, Vernon Jordan, African American, Black politician, supports the president. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. VERNON JORDAN, (D-GA): He delivered historic criminal justice reform. He ended, once and for all, the policy of incarceration of Black people, which has decimated our communities, caused by, no other than, Joe Biden.
Democrats wouldn't do it. Obama didn't want to do it. And Joe Biden and Kamala Harris, definitely, wouldn't do it. But Donald Trump did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Vernon Jones, Democrat, Georgia, supports the president says why, right there.
What do you think?
DALE: Well, I don't know if this was a verbal stumble or a deliberate claim. But it's obviously false that Trump has, once and for all, ended a policy of incarcerating Black people.
Black people continue to be incarcerated, continue to be incarcerated disproportionately. What Trump did do was sign a relatively modest but real, criminal justice reform bill called the First Step Act that did reduce some sentences, that did change some conditions in prisons.
But it's important to know that this was a federal law, affecting federal criminal sentences in federal prisons. That's a small proportion of the entire incarcerated population, it's mostly state and local people incarcerated.
So yes, this was a real change. No, Trump did not, of course, stop the incarceration of black people.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: And look, we know in the polls he's not doing well with blacks. But Joe Biden is not doing as well with minority voters as Hillary Clinton was in polling in the last election.
So it's an interesting space that Trump is trying to occupy here with very strong representations like we saw from Representative Jones.
Daniel Dale, thank you very much.
CUOMO: Now what's the real issue to be talking about? If you want to talk to about the state of race in America.
Take a look at what's happening in Wisconsin. Once again in this country. Violence.
Now when you see this, do you see this is as the problem?
"Look what they're doing, look what they're doing, look what they're doing to these communities. The blacks and their allies, look what they're doing. This is the problem." Is it?
Or do you have to recognize that when a black man is shot multiple times in the back and they say well, we thought he was going for a weapon but there is no weapon. And there seemed to be no space in between doing nothing and shooting, that it's going to make people outraged.
And tonight, athletes like LeBron James are using their platforms to speak up about this.
This is the issue with race in this country right now. How is the president on this? Next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: If we didn't have a convention, Chris, this would be the main story, don't you think?
This violence that has broken out in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Second night, second night in a row.
[02:35:00]
It's following the shooting of a black man. His name is Jacob Blake. Shot by police officers. Sorry -- it's your turn.
CUOMO: And look, the reason -- we have to talk about what happened. Because at the Republican National Convention tonight, this, this image of the buildings on fire.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That's how they want to describe Black Lives Matter. This is Black Lives Matter; violence, destruction of communities, lawlessness.
And that the opposition to the Republicans, this is what they want your world to be.
But they forget what is driving the outrage. And that part matters otherwise you'll never stop this part if you don't address the source.
Jacob Blake, shot multiple times in the back. Hospitalized, stable condition. Amazing, after what happened to him.
The two officers involved are placed on leave. Now when you look at the video --
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: -- it is painfully obvious -- they say wait till we see everything.
OK. Here's the standard. Would a reasonable police officer do what they did in this case? Is this a reasonable use of force?
The guy was breaking up a fight between two women. Whatever happens, who knows? Is somebody drunk, are they not drunk, is there substance -- I don't know. But it's all going to come out. But at the end of the day, you have multiple police following a guy
around a car and they can't come up with another way to stop him from going back in the car, not listening to their instructions, other than following him, waiting for him to open the door and shooting him.
And they say well, we thought he was going for a weapon. There was no weapon.
There were three kids inside under the age of ten.
LEMON: Let me put it this -- athletes have been empowered now, right, and speaking out about this. Let me just play -- this is Lebron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEBRON JAMES, NBA PLAYER: Jacob Blake. It's what we've been talking about and it's what we're going to continue to talk about.
Having two boys of my own and me being African American in America and to see what continues to happen with the police brutality towards my kind, continue to see with the -- what goes on with the -- just the injust (ph). It's very troubling, it's very troubling.
Now my prayers go to that family and hopefully we can have some change. And it starts with -- I believe it starts with November.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Yes. So he believes it starts in November. Let me tell you this.
It's happening now and it's happening on Trump's watch. So he can't blame Joe Biden for what's happening while he is president.
CUOMO: And he won't discuss the problem.
LEMON: And he won't --
CUOMO: You've heard him discuss --
LEMON:. That's where I was --
CUOMO: -- systemic inequality.
LEMON: That's where I'm going. But no matter what, OK, you say -- you look at the video, the training whatever.
What's happening on the streets is not going to stop unless we come to some sort of consensus about what to do.
I don't know if Lebron -- maybe Lebron is right about it happens in November. Because this president won't talk about it.
The minion (ph) in his party are just -- don't want to deal with it.
But you have to deal with the issues with policing. Again, I don't believe most people want police defunded, they think
that we need police. They just want them to be trained properly. They don't want them to shoot people in the back or people who are unarmed.
Listen, there are going to be issues, outliers, people are going to make mistakes. But we have to figure out, Chris, how to come together and solve this problem or we're going to be right back here again.
We just finished talking about it with George Floyd. We just went through the summer of unrest and protesting and me and you talking about it, talking about it.
We're going to be back here again unless we do something, unless we come -- we've got to come together on it.
CUOMO: You've got to move past the place of hey, if you don't listen to the cops, you're asking for it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: That cannot be a justice mentality.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: You don't get the death penalty for refusing to listen to police. We've got to be better than that.
And we've got to take a break.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:40:00]
LEMON: Well, it's the first night of the GOP Convention -- well, it was last night, today's the second.
But on the first night of the convention, Republicans really glossed over President Trump's many, many failures in the battle with COVID- 19.
Let's discuss now. Dr. Celine Gounder is here. Dr. Selene Gounder is an infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist.
It's so good to see you, I hope you're doing well.
DR. CELINE GOUNDER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Good to see you.
LEMON: Thank you. Yes, absolutely.
Dr. Gounder, so today the president teases possible breakthrough for vaccines. Let's listen and then we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The vaccines are going to be, I believe, announced very soon.
Yesterday night -- we did it last evening, we announced a very, very big therapeutic and the therapeutic -- it's something that really has been an incredible thing.
This would have taken -- I wouldn't say years, maybe not many years, but it would have taken a long time to have gotten it approved.
We got the FDA to do it very quickly. So now we have another therapeutic and it's really been effective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: OK. So a senior official close to the task force told CNN that the timeline for a vaccine hasn't changed at all.
This weekend, we saw the FDA announcing emergency authorization of blood plasma treatment for COVID-19.
What's the president doing here?
GOUNDER: Don, this is very concerning. Because, essentially, the scientific process is being short-circuited here.
So with the convalescent plasma emergency use authorization that was announced on Sunday, this has essentially prevented researchers from being able to enroll patients in clinical trials of convalescent plasma.
Why is that? Well, if you are a patient who is being offered the option, well, you're dying, you're close to death's door. You could either get this treatment that may or may not work through the emergency use authorization or you could enroll in a clinical trial and maybe you'll get the plasma, maybe you'll get placebo.
That becomes a very emotional decision. And I can guarantee you that decision is not going to be made, 99 times out of 100, to enroll in the trial.
So what you've done is you've slowed down enrollment in studies that will actually give us data on if this works. So this is Operation Slow Down, this is not Operation Warp Speed.
LEMON: So this is the new guidance from the World Health Organization. Kids who are five years old and under should not wear masks and kids who are over the age of 12 should wear masks.
[02:45:00]
So the school year is just beginning. And this guidance, what is this? It just keeps changing.
GOUNDER: Well, I think especially in those youngest kids, we still don't have a lot of data. We're still learning day-to-day.
What we have seen, both at the basic science level as well as the epidemiological level that kids under 10 do seem to be at lower risk of transmitting the infection to adults.
And so we are slowly, over time, adjusting our recommendations as we learn more and more about those differences.
LEMON: OK. So, as you know, it's very confusing to parents, right? Because I saw kids in my neighborhood, little kids, wearing masks.
And then some of the older kids not. And you say it's kind of -- well, the guidance says it's the reverse, right? younger kids shouldn't, older kids should. It's confusing.
GOUNDER: Well, so -- yes, younger kids are at lower risk of transmitting to adults. And so therefore, it's less essential that they be the ones wearing masks.
Whereas older kids behave more like adults and so it's more important that older kids be wearing masks.
LEMON: Got it, got it. With school coming up, we'll see.
So researchers had their first confirmed coronavirus reinfection. So -- I thought people had the antibodies, they weren't supposed to be re-infected. What does it say about immunity?
GOUNDER: Well, we're still learning what that means about immunity. There is one case out of millions of cases that we've had of coronavirus in the world. And this is the first case of documented reinfection.
So we still don't quite know what this means.
We do know from other coronaviruses that cause the common cold, for example, that immunity may last only about three months or so. So it's possible that this is the earliest sign of shorter term immunity.
We just don't know if it's really common yet or not.
LEMON: Dr. Celine Gounder, always a pleasure. Thank you.
GOUNDER: Have a good night.
LEMON: Yes. Jerry Falwell -- Jerry Falwell, Jnr., I should say his position at Liberty University in question tonight after he acknowledged an affair with a Miami man, pool (ph) boy, supposedly with his wife, Jerry Falwell Jnr.'s wife.
All the sordid details, we'll talk about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:50:00]
CUOMO: Liberty University says Jerry Falwell Jnr. agreed to resign today as the school's president, but withdrew the resignation.
He is currently on a leave of absence due to questions about his personal behavior. And now there are new revelations.
Here's CNN's Athena Jones.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY FALWELL, JNR., PRESIDENT LIBERTY UNIVERSITY, LYNCHBURG, VIRGINIA: I'm going to vote for Donald Trump because I believe he's the best qualified to be president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jerry Falwell Jnr. lending a helping hand to then candidate Donald Trump in October 2016 after "The New York Times" reported allegations that Trump touched women inappropriately without their consent.
A claim Trump denied.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALWELL: I'm one of the 85 percent or so of evangelicals who supported him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: One of Trump's most prominent evangelical supporters standing by him again in 2018.
Tonight, the president of Liberty University may be in need of his own defenders.
A man, John Carlo Granda confirming to CNN that he had a year's long extramarital affair with Falwell's wife after the couple met him on a trip to Miami eight years ago.
And that Jerry Falwell enjoyed watching from the corner of the room while the pair had sex.
Jerry Falwell admitting his wife had an inappropriate personal relationship in a lengthy statement to CNN. But denying being involved at all, let alone having watched.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"Becki had an inappropriate personal relationship with this person, something in which I was not involved."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
In a statement that referred to a quote, "fatal attraction type situation," and included multiple references to scripture, Falwell said the affair led to "stress, weight loss and reflection."
He said he has forgiven his wife and is "seeking professional help to address the emotional toll."
Reuters first reported Granda's side of the story also publishing texts supplied by Granda who told Reuters the liaisons happened multiple times per year at hotels in Miami and New York and at the Falwell's home in Virginia.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REBECCA FALWELL: Anybody should get applauded and should get standing ovations for what he's accomplished.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: In one from 2012, Becki Falwell, who serves on the board of "Women for Trump," allegedly writes to Granda:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"Right now I am just missing you like crazy. Have you had this effect on all of your lady friends? "
(END VIDEO CLIP)
A June 2020 exchange published by Reuters shows how the relationship between the Falwells and Granda had deteriorated, sometime after the couple and Granda invested together in a local property.
Granda allegedly writing to Falwell:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
"It really is a shame because I wanted to reach a peaceful resolution and just move on with our lives. But if conflict is what you want then so be it."
Jerry Falwell allegedly replying:
"You should by now understand that I will not be extorted. I have always treated you fairly and been restrained in response to
your threats because I did not wish to ruin your life. Going forward, stop contacting me and my family."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
Granda denied the blackmail accusation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALWELL: We must unite behind Donald Trump and Mike Pence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Falwell, whose January 2016 endorsement of Trump helped him win the support of white evangelicals, a key voting bloc, had already been on an indefinite leave of absence from the staunchly conservative university. After posting this photo on Instagram with a woman he says is his wife's assistant. Which he later said was meant in good fun.
A troubled moment for an influential conservative voice who nailed (ph) a coveted speaking spot on the final night of the Republican convention in 2016.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROWD: (Applause)
FALWELL: Thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: And who told out front in 2018 --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FALWELL: We're all sinners. Nobody understands that better than evangelicals. That's why we're Christians --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So --
FALWELL: -- because we believe we all need forgiveness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Athena Jones. CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Makes me uncomfortable.
CUOMO: Yes. I don't want to hear it.
LEMON: Just talking about people's personal lives. It just makes --
[02:55:00]
CUOMO: Yes. I don't want to hear it, we got way bigger problems.
Look, does it matter? Yes, it matters. Because he's relevant. And he's put himself out there as a moral authority.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He is right. We're all flawed, we're all in need of forgiveness. And that's why his brand of politics is dangerous. Because he's about judgment of others.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: And he's about being more right than you because he's coming from a place of godliness.
LEMON: Right.
CUOMO: And we should be just dealing -- you want to talk religion, fine.
Love, mercy. Love, mercy. Love one another as God loved us. Boom, there it is. At the end of the day.
We're not doing it.
LEMON: I think people have a right to privacy. Whatever they did, they thought they were -- they thought it was between them. And now it's out in the public.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: So. But my only thing is don't be a hypocrite. If you are going to talk about how people should live their lives, gay people, family values, gay people are bad and sinners and all that, then don't be a hypocrite.
But if you have an arrangement, you want to do something, you want to have an affair, whatever, you watch, that's your business.
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: I don't really like it being on the news. I just think it's weird.
CUOMO: I don't like it, I don't care about it.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: He's forced himself into a position of moral relevancy.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: I just think we've got to just focus on the problems we have. And the better we are to one another and the less judgmental we are --
LEMON: Salacious text messages? Who cares. People write -- you know what I'm saying?
CUOMO: Yes.
LEMON: Yes.
CUOMO: We got things to talk about. Look, Senator Scott. OK. I believe that he is carrying water for this president and saying things that he doesn't mean.
It doesn't have to be a personal attack, we can respect each other enough to criticize and move forward. And we'll do it all week.
LEMON: And I think him and Nikki Haley and Herschel Walker and a lot -- I think that they --
CUOMO: They know what he is --
LEMON: For people of color --
CUOMO: -- they know what he's about and they're saying something else.
LEMON: -- they should think more than twice about what they're saying. Say goodbye, Chris.
CUOMO: All right. D. Lemon, I love you.
LEMON: I love you too.
CUOMO: Thank you for being up late with me and doing this job. I wouldn't want to do it with anybody else. And we'll be doing it the full convention. Thank you for watching.
LEMON: Oh, my gosh. My gosh.
CUOMO: Our live coverage of the RNC will continue.
LEMON: Good night.
SONA JOBARTEH: My name is Sona Jobarteh, the Gambia's first professional female kora player.
I'm currently in London but one of the ways I make sure I reconnect is by playing my kora and teaching my son.
This is the way that we maintain our tradition and culture.
END
