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CNN Live Event/Special

Trump-Biden Chaotic Presidential Debate Analysis. Aired 10:30- 11p ET

Aired September 29, 2020 - 22:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[22:35:00]

CHRIS WALLACE, 2020 PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MODERATOR: The two vice- presidential nominees, Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris will debate at 9 p.m. Eastern that night. We hope you watch. Until then. Thank you, and good night.

(APPLAUSE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Clearly, this was the most chaotic presidential debate I've ever seen, and I suspect most of you, if not all of you have ever seen, the most chaotic presidential debate. And it will certainly raise a lot of questions, raising a lot of questions about the future of a presidential debate between these two candidates.

I wouldn't be surprise by the way, if this is the last presidential debate between the President of the United States and the former Vice President of the United States. But we shall see fairly soon.

Joe Biden clearly showed up today. He went head to head with the President of the United States who was often put on the defensive interrupting the vice president repeatedly.

This will certainly be a relief to a lot, a lot of the Biden supporters who are going into this debate fairly nervous. The former vice president clearly showed up.

[22:40:03]

Jake, a lot to analyze and discuss.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Wolf, that was a hot mess, inside a dumpster fire, inside a train wreck. That was the worst debate I have ever seen. In fact, it wasn't even a debate. It was a disgrace. And it's primarily because of President Trump who spent the entire time interrupting not abiding by the rules that he agreed to, lying, maliciously attacking the son of the vice president.

When asked to condemn white supremacists, he brought up the name of a neo-fascist far-right group and said stand back and standby. I -- we'll talk about who won the debate and who lost the debate. But I can tell you one thing for sure, the American people lost tonight because that was horrific. DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You just took the words

out of my mouth. You used some high-minded language. I'm just going to say it like it is. That was a shit show. And you know we're on cable. We can say that -- apologies for being maybe a little bit crude -- but that is really the phrase that I'm getting, you know, from people on both sides of the aisle on text and it's the only phrase that I can think of to really describe it.

And I couldn't agree with you more, Jake. The people who have been hurt the most by that are the people who are genuinely looking to see what each candidate stands for and who they should vote for. There are still people out there who haven't made up their mind, either on which candidate to vote for or whether to vote.

And I'm not sure that particularly on the ladder point that that performance and that the theater there, the reality TV show. The bad reality TV show is going to help them in the least.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, it was a complete disaster on all fronts. And I think if you came into this thinking that, you know, two men in their 70s who want to be the leader of the free world for the next four years could have, you know, reasonable exchange of ideas.

You came away from this debate thinking that's not possible because you could hardly even hear them at certain points. There was so much crosstalk, one over the other.

But Jake, as you pointed out, we should be really clear here, this is not both sides type of situation.

TAPPER: No.

PHILLIP: There was one party on that stage, interrupting, yelling over the moderator. And from the very beginning, I think what was so striking to watch was that usually these debates build. And they build and they build to the end. We started at a 12 on a scale from one to ten. The president was really -- you know, I think in a very agitated state, very early on in the debate and the tone was set from that.

BASH: And can I --

TAPPER: Yes.

BASH: I've heard already from people who very much support the president. Want him to do well as this was going on but he was way too hot. They knew that he was going to be aggressive. They knew, as we talked about beforehand, that he was going to try to be on offense as much as possible. But this took it too far even for Donald Trump.

TAPPER: And think about, think about if you're an undecided voter. Right?

PHILLIP: Yes.

TAPPER: And you don't like the president's style but you like some of his policies. OK? And you come in tonight and the president -- look, I don't know if Joe Biden won the debate per se. He had some nice moments but, you know, I thought he was kind of flat. But that's almost irrelevant.

Because the way the president behaved, again, the Anti-Defamation League is already out there asking the president to clarify why he didn't condemn white supremacist. And why he told this far-right neo- fascist group stand back and standby.

The way that the president behaved on the debate stage is the way that the president has behaved in American politics. Yes, he's dominant and if you like that, great. But he was rude. He didn't abide by any standards of decorum or decency. It was really frankly embarrassing.

And just to clarify something, when I said when it was almost entirely Trump. I wasn't talking about Joe Biden as the part that I was unsure about. I was talking about the moderator. The moderator who did not have control of the debate stage --

BASH: Yes.

TAPPER: -- for much of the evening, who didn't remind the president that he was violating the rules until one hour and 13 minutes into the debate.

BASH: Look, the whole thing was disgraceful. The whole thing was disgraceful. And when you talk about the fact that, you know, that the president took it to a new low, there was one part in particular. It's hard to pick out because there were a lot of lows. That was really unbelievable, which is when Joe Biden was talking about his son who died who he was incredibly close to but talking about him in the context of being a war hero and somebody who was in the military.

And what did the president do? He shot at him about his son who is living as a drug addict. And that was a moment I'm told that Joe Biden didn't prepare for. He was trying to pivot away from the talk about his family.

[22:45:04]

But in that moment, he turned to the camera and said, you know what, my son did have drug issues like many of you out there. And that wasn't something -- and we talked about this as we were watching.

TAPPER: Yes.

BASH: That he talks about very much. And that was a moment where Joe Biden was able to shine as the president was incredibly low, much lower than even his people got into that.

(CROSSTALK)

PHILLIP: Well, look, there are political attacks and then there are things that completely lack decency. And I think in that moment it was obvious the president was trying to shoe horn a political attack against one son, while Biden was talking about another son who served in the military honorably and died.

And I think that that comes across. I mean, the American people are not stupid. But it also just goes to show another thing that seemed very clear to me. Really from the beginning was just the lack of control that the president had over his own strategy, over -- you know, the plan that he had going into this.

What did he want the American people to take away from this? You could not tell. Because in so many instances you couldn't even understand what he was trying to say because he was yelling over people.

TAPPER: And it -- one final thought before we throw to Anderson. At the end there Chris Wallace was pressing the president ably on the idea of would he concede if he loses. Joe Biden said yes, of course, I will. The president wouldn't. And what occurred to me is the thought that the president does not think he's going to win this election. And he wants to bring the rest of us down with him.

Anderson?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Jake, thank you very much.

David Axelrod, I mean, I don't think we've ever have seen a President of the United States completely lacking in shame. I mean, just shameless and obesely immoral. I mean, there's not a moral fiber in this man. And I don't know what came out of this debate. I don't know what side won. I don't know what voters want.

But you cannot have watched that debate -- I would think, and be proud of our president. The way he thinks of us as viewers as Americans who are trying to decide about the future of the country. Can anybody come away from that debate knowing what Donald Trump wants for the next four years?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Does this -- does any of this surprise you? And --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: No. But to see it on such full display in this moment --

AXELROD: The guy who is on that stage tonight is the guy we've seen for four years. Rick Santorum predicted what he would do. The question is, Rick, whether he over torqued it and went overboard. I would say way overboard. And I don't think that he is going to profit from this. I think Donald Trump may have ended his presidency tonight with his performance.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Rick, are you --

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I thought the president was going to come out hot.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: He did. SANTORUM: And I predicted. And he did come out hot.

COOPER: But no, but it's not even funny. I mean, are you actually proud of the president of the United States?

SANTORUM: Look, I think the president overplayed his hand tonight. Look, here's what I saw on stage tonight. What I saw was the president who -- and he -- and you can just hear it by him reciting the things that have happened to him throughout the presidency. This Durham reports all things that are going on. He feels like he has been mistreated and by the prior administration.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Yes. All the narcissist and all psychopaths feel that.

SANTORUM: But I'm just telling you.

COOPER: But it's not -- doesn't that make it true.

SANTORUM: I'm just saying that this is a president who came out hot and because he is feeling aggrieved and I'm just telling you. And he felt like this is his opportunity to sort of turn the table on them.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Well, here's --

SANTORUM: -- and sort of turn it onto to Joe Biden, sort of give Biden the grief that he has been given over the last four years. I don't think it worked for him tonight.

BORGER: Right. Here's the thing.

SANTORUM: I mean, if that's -- to answer it correctly. I think he came out way too hot. I don't think Biden particularly did a great job to be honest with you. But I think that was over shadowed by the fact that Trump just was over doing it.

BORGER: Well, it was -- you know, here you have a president playing victim when 200,000 plus people have died from COVID. We know this is a president full of grievance. But tonight, he took the presidency and the Office of the Presidency to a new low.

The American people who have suffered for the last six months plus with this pandemic, deserve a better debate and better explanations from the President of the United States. And what I heard from him was contemptible, was out of control, was almost monstrous at points when he was talking about Hunter Biden on a personal level, when he refused to denounce white supremacy.

COOPER: And said standby.

BORGER: Standby.

COOPER: I mean, what does that mean? BORGER: What was that? He's so full of grievance that he can't get

passed himself. And you know, if he was looking to change the mind of any women voters out there, I think a lot of women would look at this and be frightened by it.

[22:50:04]

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I want to tackle a couple of things. First of all, Jake said that this was a circus. Circus workers actually reached out to my team. They say actually we take offense. We are careful and respectful people. And we work very carefully. The circus workers are taking offense. This was worse than a circus, number one.

Number two, only three things happened for me tonight. Number one, Donald Trump refused to condemn white supremacy. Number two, the President of the United States refused to condemn white supremacy. Number three, the commander-in-chief refused to condemn white supremacy on the global stage in front of my children, in front of everybody's families.

And he was given the opportunity multiple times to condemn white supremacy and he gave a wink and a nod to a racist Nazi murderous organization that is now celebrating online. That is now saying we have a go ahead. Look at what they're take -- look what the proud boys are doing right now online because the President of the United States refused to condemn supremacy. That's the only thing that happened tonight. That's what happened tonight.

AXELROD: The only thing that I would say in response to, Van, is what about this surprises you? This is exactly what he's done throughout. He's been asked these questions before. The only difference is he was asked about it at a presidential debate. This is how he's led.

And you know, Joe Biden, I thought Joe Biden did fine tonight. He hung in there, it was like riding a bucking bronco. But, you know, it strikes me that, and he showed his fundamental decency which I think is what people are yearning for right now in contrast to this -- contrast to this president.

But it strikes me that, you know, everybody was critical of Biden during those months when he was relatively quiet. And he gained during those months. And I think the same thing happened tonight. I think the time that he didn't get to speak because the president was interrupting him, was time that actually worked for Biden.

BORGER: Right.

AXELROD: Because of the way Trump debates himself.

COOPER: Should there be other debates?

BORGER: I don't know.

COOPER: Should there be, I mean, there's supposed to be -- the vice- presidential debate is next and you know, and then there is supposed to be two more presidential debates.

AXELROD: I must say I don't think the country is going to be yearning for another one of these. I think that Biden has a decision to make. You know what will happen if he says I don't want to -- I'm not going to -- I'm not going to Biden says he doesn't want to dignify this with another debate that the president will attack him for running away from debates. But I'm not sure the country will feel that way having watched the spectacle.

BORGER: Well --

JONES: And the critical matter Trump had stuff he had to do tonight. He just failed across the board. Trump had to figure out a way to get women back on board with him. That kind of kindergarten level behavior is not going to attract female voters.

He's trying to, allegedly, grow this Republican Party to include, you know, African-Americans. He just put something this weekend saying he was going to reach out to African-Americans on the economy. He didn't even speak about it. He didn't even talk about it. He had an opportunity to brag on his black record, instead talk about Portland. And then won't condemn white supremacy.

So, as a clinical matter, I'm upset. And everybody I know is either disgusted, sad or angry. I don't know a single person, even my Republican friends are disgusted. But it's worse than that. Just as a clinical matter, I don't know what he was doing up there. But there was not a single thing he needed to do tonight that he did, except for, you know, offend a lot of people including Republicans who were embarrassed tonight by the President of the United States.

BORGER: Well, you know, and he was a total bully. I mean, he was not paying attention to his own rules. That his --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Well, I mean, --

BORGER: Right, well, but that his people agreed to it. The thing is that, what Biden did, I think, effectively was sometimes do these throwaway lines where he said, well, it's hard to get a word in with this clown or just shut up. At some point he was so frustrated.

COOPER: I think Biden -- Biden missed, I mean, Rick, a lot of opportunities to, you know, interrupt the president. If you noticed, there were a couple of times when Biden did interrupt the president and actually threw the president off --

SANTORUM: Yes.

COOPER: -- and those were real missed opportunities. I mean, you know, but perhaps one of the other things the president did is by being the person he is, we're talking about how he did, as opposed to -- I mean, Biden just standing there ends up looking better than anybody.

SANTORUM: Yes. I thought there were a couple of moments that Biden did poorly actually. When he talked about not giving an answer on packing the court, I mean, I thought that was an incredibly bad moment for Joe Biden not to basically come out and say, no, I'm not going to do those things.

But it was just -- it was lost in the cacophony of this debate. It was really interesting though, I know it because he did come out hot and it got -- I don't think Chris Wallace, I mean, I understand Jake said he didn't step in, I think Chris Wallace was overwhelmed by what --

[22:55:03]

BORGER: Yes.

SANTORUM: You know, again, you are in there in the moment and you're just trying to -- you don't expect this. I thought Wallace actually did a pretty good job shutting him down. I think he was very helpful to Joe Biden on many, many occasions in shutting the president down.

And by the end, even before he said, you know, it's two minutes and you agreed to it, the president, at least from what I saw, had calm down. And we actually -- the last half hour or so, it was somewhat of a reasonable debate. But I think that at that point, it was -- the die was cast. I think the president got hurt tonight.

BORGER: How about when they were talking at the end about the potential for a rigged election? And the president was, I'm going to use the word again, frightening, threatening when he talked about the election. He said, this is not going to end well. What does that mean to the American public? That if you go and either you vote in person or you vote by mail, that something is going to happen? What is going to happen? Was he predicting violence? I just --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: No. I don't think that's fair.

BORGER: What kind of a -- what kind of a --

SANTORUM: I think that's taking it too far.

BORGER: Well --

SANTORUM: What I think what the president is saying is --

BORGER: How else are you supposed to take it, Rick?

AXELROD: it did happen in the same debate where he told white supremacists to standby.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Rick, if you're talking about a fascist armed group to stand down and standby.

SANTORUM: I am. (CROSSTALK)

JONES: Listen --

COOPER: And talking about poll watchers going in --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: I don't think he's telling them that. But I think what he was -- he did not answer the question directly and he should have and it was wrong and I have no idea why he didn't. He's done it before.

COOPER: Well, he did. He actually did answer the question directly --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: He's done it before.

COOPER: -- by his silence.

SANTORUM: But he is -- he is --

COOPER: That's exactly what he has done.

SANTORUM: But he has condemned white supremacist group before. Why he didn't do it when directly asked that, I have no idea and it was a huge mistake.

AXELROD: I don't know, Rick. You know, when he was asked about the young man who shot the people in Kenosha, he defended --

BORGER: Right.

AXELROD: -- the young man. He refused to condemn the group that came into Portland by caravan. He has given aid and comfort to these groups because he feels that they are on his side. And all you need is to be on Donald Trump's side and he'll be on your side.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: He's a larger QAnon conspiracy theorist.

BORGER: Right.

AXELROD: Right. Exactly.

COOPER: Because he believes that they are on his side. That it's the first thing on record he said about QAnon conspiracy theorists, who by the way are trafficking in age-old anti-Semitic anti-Catholic stereotypes about, you know, Democrats and Hollywood celebrities drinking the blood of children.

AXELROD: Yes.

COOPER: I mean, these are like blood libel old Nazi things.

AXELROD: Yes.

BORGER: Right.

COOPER: He said, they say, I hear they say very nice things about me.

AXELROD: Yes. Yes, and that's all it takes.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Because it's about him.

AXELROD: But here's the thing about Donald Trump. And this was part of why he got elected in a way, but he is someone who has spent his life and he spent his presidency basically slandering rules, laws, norms and institutions.

And so, is it surprising that in this the most important debate of his life, that he's slandered the rules and trampled over the rules in this debate? What you saw tonight was the reason that Donald Trump's going -- has the problems that he has. And it has as much -- has much to do with who he is as a person as any of his -- as any of his positions although those are very -- those are areas of vulnerability as well.

JONES: I want to say a couple of things about Biden. First of all, there were a lot of people on the left and the right who weren't sure if Biden had enough gas in the tank to get through the night. Those questions have been put to bed. He was able to stand and deliver and to deal with all the harassment and all bullying. And he stood there. So, to the extent --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And remain a human being.

SANTORUM: He wasn't -- he wasn't -- he surely wasn't a powerful figure on stage.

COOPER: But at the end of the debate, you felt he was a decent human being --

BORGER: yes.

COOPER: -- which cannot be said of the President of the United States.

JONES: And so again, I just want to call this stuff fair based on what we are seeing before and where we are now. So, there was a concern. Can Biden take it? Can he make it? Can he deal with the body blows? is he going to fall apart? Biden did not fall apart. That is a significant development. Nobody is ever going to put that against him again.

So, Trump was wrong saying all this stuff about him. The other thing I think about Biden. Biden did get asked the tough question around the law and order and that kind of stuff. And when he was pressed, he said I'm for the rule of law. I'm for it. Both times, when Trump got tough questions, whether it's about are you

going to honor the election results or are you going to condemn white supremacy, he couldn't do it. He wouldn't do it. He didn't do it. So, if you are looking for peace, stability --

SANTORUM: Packing the court?

JONES: Look, packing the court, he ducked. He ducked on that.

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: That's a huge issue.

JONES: So, one, he ducked. But if you are looking peace and stability, and how do you get back to it, you've got to compare the performances here besides all the other stuff and Biden answered the tough questions more than he didn't and Trump ducked.

COOPER: Yes. Let's go back to Wolf.

BLITZER: You know, Anderson, people who are watching this debate around the world here on CNN and more than 200 countries and territories.

[23:00:02]

Clearly, this debate was an embarrassment for the United States of America, a clear embarrassment.