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CNN Live Event/Special
Awaiting Start Of Pence-Harris Debate; Plexiglass Barriers, 12- Foot Distance Between Candidates; Pence and Harris Expected To Spar Over Trump's Coronavirus Response; Climate Change, Police Reform And The Supreme Court. Aired 8-9p ET
Aired October 07, 2020 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[20:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Mr. Trump's illness is driving home the advanced age of their running mates and their duty to step up if needed. The pandemic is having an impact on the debate even before the candidates are asked about COVID-19 and the administration's handling of it. Those two Plexiglas barriers you see on stage or evidence of that.
The Pence team agreed to the barriers after challenging and mocking them, all while a COVID outbreak was spreading through the Trump-Pence White House with more and more aides and allies testing positive.
I'm joined tonight by Wolf Blitzer. Wolf, walk us through the other new measures put in place for this debate.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Yes. Several measures, Anderson. The Debates Commission is trying to improve the safety of this event.
President Trump may already have been infected during his debate with former Vice President Joe Biden last week and the status of their next debates -- right now, the status is up in the air.
Tonight, Senator Harris will be seated at a desk 12 feet away from her opponent instead of seven feet as originally planned. The viewers will see her on the left of their TV screens. They'll see Vice President Pence seated to the right.
With those clear barriers between them, moderator, Susan Page of "U.S.A. Today" will be 12 feet away from the candidates as well.
The Debates Commission says everyone in the hall must test negative for coronavirus in order to be allowed and including those on stage and in the limited -- very limited audience. The Commission says it will remove anyone in the audience who refuses to wear a mask during the debate as members of the Trump family did last week.
Turning to the format tonight, the 90-minute debate will be divided into nine 10-minute segments and Vice President Pence will get the first question based on a coin toss.
We're covering every moment of this debate with Daniel Dale fact checking the candidates, CNN's Sara Sidner is with a group of undecided Arizona voters who will be watching the debate. And David Chalian will have the first word on who won from a CNN instant poll.
Our correspondents are getting late word of the candidates missions tonight. Let's go to Kyung La first. Kyung, what can we expect from Senator Harris?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What we're hearing from the campaign, Wolf is that she is not here to eviscerate Mike Pence. She is here to connect to the pain of real Americans who are suffering through this pandemic.
She wants to offer a stark contrast and it's going to be immediately apparent. She is a woman of color making history tonight by stepping onto this debate stage. By focusing on that, they believe that gender is actually going to be a powerful tool here being a woman taking a softer approach and connecting emotionally to people at home. That is a message that they are going to continually drive home tonight.
It's something that she actually deployed very effectively when she was running for President. She was able to take policy and really turn it into kitchen table issue saying that if you needed to buy tires for your family vehicle that affected the savings of a working family, so that's something she is going to continue to return to -- gender and race optics. Absolutely an issue especially when we consider that she is the first woman of color to hit the debate stage in a general election. But they say this is not new territory for the senator -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Kyung, thank you. Let's go to Ryan Nobles right now. Ryan, will Vice President Pence be on offense or defense?
RYAN NOBLES, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's no doubt, Wolf, that Mike Pence is prepared for attacks that will come from Kamala Harris specifically related to the fact that President Trump has already tested positive for the coronavirus, but also the overall administration response to the coronavirus pandemic.
And while he is prepared to defend the administration's response, in his own personal role as the head of the Coronavirus Taskforce, he is also ready to return fire and the Trump campaign feels that they have an opening here when talking about the coronavirus to extend the conversation out to a broader talk about healthcare in general.
Expect Mike Pence to remind voters that during the Democratic primary Kamala Harris was in support of Medicare-for-All, something that the Trump administration argues is a path to full socialized medicine. They will then take it even a step further and talk about Kamala Harris's connection to the far left elements of the Democratic Party. They believe that this is a broad vulnerability for the Biden-Harris ticket and it's something that Vice President Pence plans to hone in on tonight in a big way -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Interesting. All right, Ryan, thank you very much. Jeff Zeleny is also working his sources. Jeff, how do the campaign view the stakes -- the stakes for tonight's debate?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, whether President Trump acknowledges this or not, the Trump campaign and indeed senior Republicans on Capitol Hill believe that this is one of the last best opportunities to reset and potentially change the narrative of this race.
For months, the President and the Vice President and Republicans have been trying to brand Joe Biden as part of the liberal left, the radical left in their view. If you talk to Democratic operatives in every battleground state across the country, they say that is one of their biggest challenges that are just simply the identity of this Democratic Party.
But Republicans tonight know that this stakes are incredibly high.
Wolf, if I talked to a senior Republican senator on Capitol Hill a short time ago. This is how he framed the stakes tonight.
[20:05:10]
ZELENY: He said, if we don't stop the bleeding tonight, the remaining weeks could be very grim for the Republican Party. So that is what the stakes are, not just for the presidency, but also for the control of the Senate.
So there's no question that the Vice President has been preparing for this for weeks. I'm told since at least September 14, has been doing mock debate sessions. He is going to try and prosecute Senator Harris's record and try and tie her to some of those positions she held during the Democratic primary.
Wolf, there's no question. The most important person in the audience, of course, is watching from home right behind me here, President Trump, but he has made the Vice President's job so much more difficult because of his conduct over coronavirus for the last week.
So the question, will any of these even breakthrough because certainly, coronavirus and the President's own catching of it, and the White House handling of it is certainly front and center now -- Wolf.
BLITZER: It certainly, Jeff Zeleny, thank you.
As the candidates prepare to take the debate stage, huge questions remain about the outbreak over at the White House and what we know about President Trump and Vice President Pence.
Let's go to Jake, Dana and Abby. Jake, the stakes are really amazing what's going on right now, a unique moment in American history.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Absolutely, Wolf and Dana, as if the Plexiglas isn't enough of a reminder that not only the health officials say that the administration's response to the coronavirus pandemic has been inadequate, and in some cases, reckless.
They actually now have an outbreak in the White House, the Oval Office and the West Wing are a hot zone. And the big question, of course, that the White House refuses to answer time after time is when did the President last test negative? In other words, when did he catch it? And has he been abiding by all the health protocols that the White House has been saying he did. Because if he had it and then went to the Goldstar Event two Sundays ago, went to Minnesota, went to New Jersey, went to Ohio, then that's the ultimate and reckless behavior.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: The question is whether the President is Patient Zero with the White House outbreak, and we don't know the answer that for all the reasons that you just laid out.
You know, we need to know, as American citizens, but most importantly, the people who he was in contact with, when he actually thinks that he possibly could have gotten the coronavirus, and you talked about all the people who went and saw outside the White House. What about the people who, you know, about this time last week, we were talking about his debate prep.
Almost all of the people in that room inside the White House map room have COVID, and they all got tested beforehand. So it is really an open question whether they got it from the President.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. And this all raises a big question. Can anyone, any of us, any people in the Biden campaign trust what this White House is saying about their testing regimen, and who has been exposed and who has not? That's why this matters both for tonight's debate in which Vice President Mike Pence says repeatedly, he doesn't have to quarantine. He has given us letters from his doctor saying he wasn't exposed, but he was at that Rose Garden event. We know that.
And the White House is being cagey about when people tested positive, when they were tested, and just sort of what the situation is altogether. If you are in the Biden campaign right now, and I've spoken to people around that campaign, today, there is a lot of nervousness over there, because it's kind of an -- it is still kind of an honor system.
They have to expect that people who say that they are negative are in fact negative, and I'm not sure that anybody can be sure about what happened. A lots going --
BASH: And people say they took tests -- actually took tests. And the President --
PHILLIP: Yes.
TAPPER: Yes, and that's the point because first of all, there are health experts who would say, even if Vice President Pence has tested negative, which he says he has, Kamala Harris should not risk it. Susan Page, the moderator should not risk it, they should not be going into a room where there is air circulating that Pence is exhaling that's A, and B, I really think at this point in the crisis and four years into this administration, you have to ask yourself, Dana, do you believe them? Do you believe the White House when they say Vice President Pence tested negative? Really? Would you bet your life on it?
BASH: No. I mean, but at this point, you know, since we're watching a debate with one of our friends and colleagues moderating there, and our other colleagues, you know, covering it, we certainly hope so. And that there was a lesson learned that Mike Pence isn't Donald Trump, despite the fact that he has been serving at his side for four years.
But you know, the other the other question is whether or not we really can rely on not just what the Vice President is saying, but the fact that the tests are actually accurate. Stephen Miller who was also in that debate prep room, obviously was around the President a lot, he had five negative tests until just last night, based on what they told us, so just last night.
So it's not unlikely improbable that we see the same thing with the Vice President.
PHILLIP: And that is not necessarily something that is out of the ordinary. What public health experts are saying is that you can test negative and still have the virus.
[20:10:10]
PHILLIP: The way that this starts to impact tonight's debate is going to be the whole argument that the Pence-Trump campaign has been making is that this is all under control. We've got testing. We've got therapeutics. That's going to be put to the test tonight.
And, you know, speaking to someone close to Harris, they said this could not have been served up better for what she is trying to accomplish tonight.
We are living in a moment in which everything that the Pence campaign has said about the virus is being put to the test based on the outbreak that's at the White House, and you're going to see the Harris campaign and the Biden campaign trying to take advantage.
TAPPER: Exactly. And to use a phrase that's not said very often to Stephen Miller's credit, he isolated himself as soon as there was an obvious outbreak. That is not what Vice President Pence has been doing -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Interesting indeed. Still ahead, the White House is going to extremes as it struggles to protect staffers from a contagious President. We're taking a closer look behind the scenes.
And our fact checker Daniel Dale is warming up for tonight's debate by breaking down the President's newest claims about the pandemic. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:15:06]
COOPER: And welcome back as we standby for the Vice Presidential Debates to get underway. You're looking at a lot of pictures at the Debate Hall in Salt Lake City. We are waiting tonight's debate that is going to be perhaps the most important vice presidential debate in history of this country. It's a good chance that President Trump will be watching as well
tonight while he is somewhere in the White House. I was going to say holed up, but unclear where he might be tonight with COVID-19. Let's go back to CNN's Jim Acosta.
So Jim, the President returned to the Oval Office even though he is infected and contagious. What more are you learning?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, a new video produced and released by the White House, President Trump is calling his bout with the coronavirus, a blessing pointing to the experimental medications he has been on for days. But sources close to the President say he continues to have trouble breathing at times and White House staffers are not very comfortable having Mr. Trump back in the Oval Office today.
Some aides are flat out fearful of being here being sick because of the President having the coronavirus on White House grounds. And we observed other employees gathering in full view of our cameras earlier today not wearing masks, not social distancing, not getting it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I feel great. I feel like perfect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): The White House released a new video tonight with President Trump saying it was a blessing that he caught the coronavirus.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think this was a blessing from God that I caught it. This was a blessing in disguise. I caught it. I heard about this drug. I said let me take it. It was my suggestion. I said let me take it. And it was incredible the way it worked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): But hold on. Mr. Trump's experimental treatment is not available to most Americans. Yet he claimed it was a cure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now they call them therapeutic. But to me it wasn't therapeutic. It just made me better. Okay, I call that a cure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): With a Marine standing outside the West Wing, President Trump returned to the Oval Office today White House officials say with two close aides nearby. The advisers to the President claimed White House staffers will be protected from a contagious Commander-in-Chief, a job that could be difficult after some administration officials were seen outside the Eisenhower Executive Office Building today maskless with no signs of social distancing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARK MEADOWS, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Obviously, with the President, he continues to work. We've got a number of safety protocols with full PPE, mask, goggles, and the like for any direct interaction with the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): Positioned just outside the Oval Office is a so- called isolation cart, stock with yellow medical gowns, respirator masks and plastic goggles. And any aide, staff or Secret Service who comes near the President is required to don the protective garb and staff has been cleaning spaces throughout the West Wing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEADOWS: We continue to have a number of areas where we have disinfectants for hard surfaces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): It's been two days since Mr. Trump returned from Walter Reed Hospital taking off his mask on the balcony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I know there's a risk, there's a danger, but that's okay and now I'm better. And maybe I'm immune. I don't know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): Sources tell CNN the President has had some difficulty breathing since returning from Walter Reed with one adviser saying he has had trouble taking in a full breath at times.
Still, the President has been making phone calls and tweeting policy decisions from his third floor residence. The residence normally has 90 full time and 250 part time staff. There are now only approximately eight to 10 employees rotating in shifts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN MORGENSTERN, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: We can interact with somebody with coronavirus. It's not a death sentence or they're not a leper. He still has the virus, but we can -- it doesn't mean that we can't interact with him in a safe way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): But the administration has been taking some risks. CNN has learned the President is not tested every day. White House officials instead use the term regularly while noting people around Mr. Trump are tested daily.
The White House outbreak now includes at least 20 people and three journalists who have tested positive for coronavirus and administration officials are looking into debate prep sessions and the Rose Garden event nominating Amy Coney Barrett as likely spreaders of the virus late last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, we gather in the Rose Garden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): The potential super spreader event included several attendees who have tested positive. The following day, the Trumps attended a Gold Star family ceremony in the Blue Room at the White House.
Vice Commandant of the Coast Guard, Admiral Charles Ray has since tested positive, while other military leaders present like General Mark Milley have tested negative, but are self-quarantining.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLEIGH MCENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Obviously, there was an outbreak here in the White House. But we've been checking on staff following necessary contact tracing procedures.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA (voice over): It's not just top officials becoming infected, military aides to the President have also tested positive. There are other workers at the White House who are also at risk, from landscapers to janitors, all vulnerable.
That reality has some staffers afraid to even step foot on White House grounds with one Trump adviser admitting quote, "it's all bad."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ACOSTA: And the President, I am told, wants to get back on the campaign trail and yes, hold rallies or some kind of rally type event in the near future in the coming days. One adviser told me earlier today there is no way the President is going back to the hospital, Anderson, unless it's an emergency. This adviser said the only way the president returns to Walter Reed, and this is how the adviser put it, is if he is on a stretcher -- Anderson.
[20:20:07]
COOPER: And Jim, just to be clear, the White House continues to refuse to say when the President last tested negative, is that correct?
ACOSTA: That's right. And one admission that we got from White House officials today is that the President was not being tested on a daily basis prior to his positive test results last Thursday. They will only say he has been tested regularly.
COOPER: So they have admitted that?
ACOSTA: They have now admitted that, that's right. It doesn't help us pinpoint exactly when he caught the coronavirus, but they are now saying unlike what they were saying earlier this year, that he was not being tested every day. That's right -- Anderson.
COOPER: Jim Acosta. Thanks.
The President's illness apparently has not cured his penchant for spreading misleading information about the coronavirus. Our fact checker, Daniel Dale joins us.
So Daniel, as you get ready for tonight's debate, I assume you've had a lot of coffee, give us perspective on what we've been hearing from the President just in the last few days.
DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Well, Anderson, the President has only spoken to us in prerecorded videos and in tweets since he left the hospital on Monday, but he still managed to make a whole bunch of false or misleading claims.
He claimed in that video released earlier this evening that the Regeneron medication he took himself is a quote "cure" for COVID-19. That just false. There is no cure for COVID-19. This antibody cocktail may prove to be an effective treatment, but not a cure, and it has not been approved for widespread use.
Trump also tweeted yesterday that COVID-19 he said is far less lethal in most populations than the flu is. Now, Anderson, his grammar was a little vague in that tweet, but come on. He personally admitted to Bob Woodward in February that the coronavirus is generally several times more lethal than the flu. And we've had as many coronavirus deaths this year already more than 211,000 confirmed almost certainly far more than that in reality than the estimated flu deaths for the last five flu seasons combined.
Now Trump also said in that same tweet that the number of flu deaths per year is quote "sometimes over 100,000." We haven't hit 100,000 flu deaths in a year since 1968. According to C.D.C. estimates since 2010, has been between an estimated 12,000 to 61,000 per year.
Now Trump also promised in a Monday video message that vaccines are he said coming momentarily, that is a large and important exaggeration. A moment has already passed this Monday. It is true we might well have a vaccine approved at some point this year, but we know according to all of the credible experts, it almost certainly won't be distributed to most Americans until at some point in 2021. Not immediately.
So we have a debate tonight. And at that debate, we're probably going to -- we are going to hear from two candidates who frankly don't lie nearly as frequently as President Donald Trump does. I hardly had time to take a breath trying to keep up with the President's dishonesty at the debate last week. I expect tonight to be a little more chill. But that doesn't mean Vice
President Pence or Senator Harris is going to be perfect. Pence, for example, has a history of parroting some of Trump's own false claims and will repeat the same language.
He also has a history of like Trump offering overly rosy assessments of the state of a pandemic, and like Trump, Pence has repeatedly attributed positions to former Vice President Biden that Biden does not actually hold.
Now Harris since she began running for the Democratic presidential nomination unsuccessfully last year has sometimes inaccurately described her own record, both in the Criminal Justice System as District Attorney and Attorney General and in the Senate, and she has also sometimes been inaccurate about President Trump's record.
So in summary, I expect this debate to be easier on the fact checkers, thankfully, then the last one last week, but I'll certainly have some work to do after the debate -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Daniel Dale, thanks very much.
Let's go to our folks. Gloria, I don't even know what to ask.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, let me say --
COOPER: I don't know what to expect.
BORGER: I just want to take a moment to sort of say how bizarre this whole thing is right now. We have two vice presidential candidates who have to talk to each other through Plexiglas. We have a Vice President who is technically violating C.D.C. protocol in even being there.
We have a President of the United States who is eager to get back out on the campaign trail, having just contracted COVID, and people who want to talk to him, he insisted on being in the Oval Office have to wear yellow gowns and goggles to go see him.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, but what else?
BORGER: Right, but what else? So this is the context into which we have a vice presidential debate. I don't see any other way other than it's going to be dominated by COVID because what Pence's message has to be is, don't worry, we've got it all under control. Here we are. We've got it all under control.
And you had Donald Trump just tonight saying, well, maybe I'm cured. This was a great thing and the other day saying, you know, don't let COVID dominate your life. And so this is --
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That was one of the single worst --
BORGER: Yes.
JONES: Single worst, you've heard from a President to say something like that, when you have people who are literally grieving people they can't even attend the funerals for so -- Trump is blowing this. Pence has to come out here and try to save this President because he is falling down the stairs. Trump is falling down the stairs and listen, there was a moment where Trump could have gotten the country on his side.
[20:25:09]
JONES: Had he allowed himself to be human in this moment and connect with the American people, but he just doesn't have that capacity. And so what you're going to have tonight, is Pence is going to go out there, try to rescue this President but he is trying to rescue a President who literally, I guarantee before the night is over had done more things to alienate himself from the country.
AXELROD: That's the problem. That's the problem. You know, I'm not a doctor, I'm not going to play one on TV. The President says he feels fine, fine, but I am qualified to judge campaigns and his is in deep distress.
He stood on the debate stage last week and blew himself up, and Republicans, I'm sure Rick will confirm this were hoping that maybe Mike Pence could do what the President didn't and make the case that the President didn't make for himself last week, and he won't get off the stage.
The fact that he released a video hours before this debate guaranteeing that this would be front and center, you know, it's tragic for the country. It's suicidal politically for him.
RICK SANTORUM, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Which means that we walk into this debate and all this commentary and anybody who is paying attention to what's going on with the expectation that Kamala Harris is going to clean up because how can she not?
I mean, just listen to what was just said, how can Mike Pence do anything other than just, you know, pick up a gun and shoot himself in the head because it's over? But that's not going to happen.
And so and all I'm saying is, the expectation right now is, how does -- how can this not be a huge win for Kamala Harris? That you are right.
AXELROD: The expectations are a trap for Kamala Harris.
SANTORUM: Yes.
AXELROD: They've been for some time. The question is, can Mike Pence do anything to change the trajectory of this campaign, when the President seems intent on taking himself down?
SANTORUM: Right? No, look, and the answer is that Mike Pence knows this issue better than Donald Trump, and is better communicating on this issue much more, much more reassuring.
JONES: Let me say where Kamala -- but Kamala can hurt him thought. SANTORUM: Much more factual and scientific. I mean --
BORGER: But he can't disagree with Donald Trump.
JONES: Well, he won't have to.
SANTORUM: He won't have to. He'll just lay out --
BORGER: What do you mean?
SANTORUM: He'll lay out what he's been doing as the head of the Taskforce.
COOPER: But then you made a point before, which is Kamala Harris has not -- she has done, you know, debates with 10 other candidates on the stage, which is a completely different thing than one-on-one with somebody who is an experienced debater and radio host.
JONES: Who is a really skilled debater and where Kamala has one advantage is that she is a woman, and it's women who are suffering like nobody can believe in this country, because the women, especially single moms who are trapped now, they keep their kids home so kids don't get sick, they can't feed them, they can't go to work.
And this, I think, the vise grip that women are in, if she chooses to be relatable, I don't think that he should go after her. You said it earlier, don't be the prosecutor tonight. First of all, Pence is tough. He is tough.
He has got to be hard. Don't underestimate him. But you be that mother, that woman who understands who's going to fight for the women in this country right now, who I think have been abandoned. It's the working moms. It's the teachers who are mostly women who have been crushed by this Vice President's failures.
COOPER: Gloria, and we've got to go.
BORGER: She has to be more like Joe Biden. That's what she's got to be. She's got to have that empathy that you see at the top of the ticket. It's got a trickle down.
AXELROD: And talk to the country.
COOPER: We have President Trump's increasingly difficult path to 270 electoral votes. Oh, they said that a lot four years ago, as I recall; also undecided voters will give us a sense of what they're looking for in tonight's debate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[20:31:29]
BLITZER: As we get closer to tonight's vice presidential debate, let's take a fresh look at where the race for the White House stands right now. John King is back at the magic wall for us. So John, break it down. JOHN KING, CNN HOST: Wolf, a big development as the vice president prepares to debate tonight with a lot of pressure on him not only from President Trump, but from Republicans who are worried also about losing the Senate. We are changing our electoral outlook tonight our path to 270.
And for the first time we now have Joe Biden above 270. It takes 270 electoral votes to win the White House. We now have Joe Biden at 290 electoral votes, the dark blue states that are solid blue, solid for Biden, the light blue states that are leading by. And how did we get to 290? What's the big change in our map?
Number one, we have moved Pennsylvania from toss up to lean blue more than a handful of recent polls there, show Biden not only with a lead but with a healthy lead. We have moved Nebraska (INAUDIBLE) congressional district, the second district there Nebraska does electoral votes by CDs.
It has been a toss up we are moving at lean blue because of recent polling. And we are moving Iowa we have this one as lean red leaning Trump's way we're now making that a toss up because of recent polling showing Joe Biden competitive some polling actually showing him ahead.
So look at the state of the race with 27 days to go a lopsided advantage for Joe Biden. Now, people are saying I remember we went through this in 2016. Yes, we did. So rule nothing out. But this race is different. Number one, look at the toss up states left Maine second congressional district. Again, Maine, like Nebraska, doesn't buy CDs but Iowa, Ohio, North Carolina, Georgia and Florida.
They have a toss up still on the map. We'll look at the recent polling from the states. Bring this up and move it off the map. You're going to have to throw this away here. Here we go. Let's bring it up and look at it here. In Ohio, a very competitive race, a very competitive race, perhaps an advantage for Biden.
In Iowa, the reason we move this to a toss up, Biden at 50. Trump at 45. In Georgia, it's a toss up with statistical tie but advantage Biden. In Florida polls showing an increasing lead in a state Donald Trump simply has to win. There's no way Donald Trump gets reelected if he loses Florida. North Carolina, a tough race here but still advantage Biden and all the toss up states Biden is competitive or on top and this is why we move Pennsylvania. The polling has shifted there.
So, what are the Democrats think 27 days out? They are dreaming. Remember, Joe Biden has more money. Joe Biden is on the campaign trail. The President is confined to the White House. Democrats think it is possible. They could sweep that they could have a blowout and if they have a blow up.
It won't just be your take the White House, the Senate would without a doubt flip as well. This is the Democratic dream. They also think they get this electoral vote in May. Now, can the president come back? Yes, he can. But it's very important as you think about this race. People say 2016, this is not 2016. Let's take a look at the polling. One thing to look at, yes, yes, Hillary Clinton was up eight points nationally at about this same point in the last campaign up eight points. She won by about one or two. If you look at the national poll, she lost in the Electoral College. She won the nationwide vote. Joe Biden is up by a bigger margin nationally up by 11 points in our polling average right now.
So, a slightly bigger Biden lead. But it's when you go into the bones of the polling that you see that this race is simply not 2016. Joe Biden does as well or better than Hillary Clinton among all the groups Democrats need. Look at this lopsided gender gap, Trump at 32 percent nationally among women, Joe Biden more than 30 points ahead of that.
People of color that's a 47-point advantage among African-Americans and Latinos across the country. College graduates 35-point lead for Joe Biden in our poll. This is where it's different from 2016. Look at non-college graduates. This is a key part of the Trump base.
In our national poll. Joe Biden is a little bit of ahead. If you look at the battleground state policy is very competitive. This is a constituency Hillary Clinton did not do well with Joe Biden is running well. And senior citizens the most reliable voters in the country at critical to Republicans. Look at that lopsided Joe Biden lead.
[20:35:02]
So, this is not the same race. Can Trump win? Yes, Ohio has Republican DNA perfectly conceivable. The President carries that, perfectly conceivable. He comes back in a state like Iowa. Watch the numbers change over there. North Carolina voted for him last time. It's a Republican leaning state. It's purple but leading, you could see Trump winning there.
You could certainly see Trump winning Georgia. And you could certainly see Trump winning Florida. There's a resource question here because so many states where you're behind your short money from Joe Biden, you could see all that happening. If all that happened, Joe Biden is still well ahead.
This is the challenge, Wolf in these final 27 days, Trump will have to flip Pennsylvania or Flint, Michigan or flip Wisconsin and get or get Arizona back. Can he win? Yes, he can win. But this is not 2016. You look at this map. And you look at the recent trends right now.
It is lopsided, and Joe Biden's favor, which puts a lot of pressure on the vice president tonight and raises big questions about when if can the president get back on the trail?
BLITZER: Great to have John King back at the magic wall. John, thanks very much. Let's dig deeper into the race and tonight's debate with our political director, David Chalian. So David, what are you looking for tonight?
DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, watching John, just take you through wolf, the sort of Biden coalition when he showed you the strength that Biden has against Trump, especially with seniors and women, really important constituencies. What I did was look at our national poll to say how does that translate to the issues that are most important to voters? Because I think that is going to be a roadmap for what you hear Mike Pence and Kamala Harris talking about tonight.
So take a look from our most recent national poll this week. And how the issue matrix if you will split between Biden voters and Trump voters. It's like two different universes. Coronavirus 66 percent of Biden voters say it's extremely important to their vote. Only 21 percent of Trump voters. Healthcare 58 percent say a Biden voters that it's most important, 25 percent safe but so for Trump voters, race relations and even bigger gap between Biden's voters and Trump voters in what is important to their vote.
So expect Kamala Harris to lean into every time coronavirus healthcare race relations is the topic of discussion. She's going to press an advantage. The flip side for Mike Pence is when the topic is the economy, when the topic is crime and safety. You see that -- those are the issues most important to Trump voters.
Look at the very top line Wolf, Supreme Court nominations. It's about equally important to voters on both sides. So if the Amy Coney Barrett nomination comes up, you can expect each side wanting to spend time on that and scoring some points there. But it's just two different universes of what issues are driving Trump voters and Biden voters.
BLITZER: Very interesting indeed. David Chalian, thank you. CNN has put together a focus group of undecided voters in the battleground state of Arizona. They'll be watching the debate tonight and sharing their reactions in real time. Our Sara Sidner is with them.
Sarah, so what are you hearing from these undecided voters?
SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A lot of different things on a lot of different issues. This is an important debate to them. And we should mention that this is actually the very first day of early voting, starting today here in Arizona.
All right, let's get to these undecided voters here. We have 10 people here who have given us our time, and they're going to give us their honest opinions. We're going to start with Joseph. Joseph, you've identified as an undecided voter.
JOSEPH (ph): Yes.
SIDNER: And so with everyone else here. Americans, many of them cannot believe that anyone is undecided in this such polarized time. Why are you still undecided Joseph?
JOSEPH (ph): Because I really want to know what the candidates true plans are and how they're going to reach across the aisle to really get things done. We're such a crucial time in our country. We need people that are willing to talk to each other.
And for Trump, I want to see what he what his plans really are to make that happen. And I want Biden to tell me how he's going to be able to reach across the aisle because the vide has gotten so large. I want to know how they can work together to make the country better and not just make one liners.
SIDNER: You're looking for unity.
JOSEPH (ph): Yes.
SIDNER: All right, Cody, I'm going to come over here to you. Now, Cody, you first time voter, is that right?
CODY (ph): Yes. First time.
SIDNER: OK. Tell me why you are still undecided. This is going to be your first presidential time voting for presidential candidates.
CODY (ph): Right.
SIDNER: What makes you unsure?
CODY (ph): (INAUDIBLE) or undecided currently, just to see what both candidates have to offer. Trump's been in office for four years currently, Biden's been in office for 47 years. So I just want to be able to see what Biden has been able to do and what Trump is (INAUDIBLE).
SIDNER: OK. All right, so you hear the question about being undecided and a lot of people you know are very much have to very much they are going to vote.
All right. I think the next thing that we'd like to ask folks how important the vice president is during this particular debate. We would like to start with Vanessa, who I think is way over here. Vanessa, is the vice presidential candidate -- in this particular debate, more important to you than, for example four years ago or not?
[20:40:17]
VANESSA (ph): Definitely (INAUDIBLE) four years ago, I was in a different spot in my life and I feel like so was America. So now, I feel like there's a lot more to lose. I'm definitely interested to hear what (INAUDIBLE).
SIDNER: OK. So, it is important to you the vice president not just the president?
VANESSA (ph): Definitely.
SIDNER: OK.
VANESSA (ph): Absolutely.
SIDNER: OK. All right. Let's go ahead and go overcome Morgan. Morgan, you work in healthcare. Correct? How important is it to you the fact that this is a historic election because one of the candidates Kamala Harris, Senator Harris, is a woman of color, she is for the very first time on a major presidential ticket. She is of Jamaican and Indian descent. Isn't that important to you?
MORGAN (ph): Absolutely. And to be honest, I think it should be important to everybody. I think representation matters. And I think though it's not the only thing, it's definitely a big thing. I think we should all be paying attention to that with where we're at in our country right now. With how things are going with there being so much division, how incredible would it be to see unity in presidential and vice presidential seats?
SIDNER: You guys are starting to hear a theme unity seems to be a theme here. Let's go to you Sam. Sam what do you think about the fact that there is on this ballot, for the very first time someone who is of color and a woman? And we haven't seen that before in our in our history in a major ticket?
SAM (ph): I think it's great. We haven't had a ton of diversity in the office, ever. So I think it's I think it's great.
SIDNER: All right, I just want to give you a hint about exactly what is going to happen going forward. All of these lovely folks have one of these. It's a cell phone that has our IT department has fixed up so they can tell you while the debate is going on exactly what they think and how strongly they feel about what the vice presidential candidate whether it is Mike Pence, or whether it is Kamala Harris, what they're saying how they feel about it.
And then they will they will make her votes, either they're going to say, look, we are strongly, strongly agreeing with what they're saying, or we're strongly disagreeing. Some people will be in the middle. We'll have to wait and see.
BLITZER: We certainly will. Sarah Sidner in Phoenix for us. Thank you very much. So, we're just minutes away, Jake, from the start of this historic debate.
TAPPER: That's right Wolf. And, I have to say, this is the most important vice presidential debate in history, because whoever wins November 3rd, will be the oldest president in the history of the United States.
PHILLIP: And one of them would have had coronavirus (INAUDIBLE) --
TAPPER: And one of them -- will hopefully only one of them will have had coronavirus. So yes, I mean is important who wins. And of course, we should take a moment to acknowledge the trailblazing manner of one of the nominees on the stage tonight, Kamala Harris, the first African-American woman, the first South Asian woman, on that stage ever.
PHILLIP: Yes, I mean, it's you, you know that tonight, Kamala Harris is feeling that weight of history on her shoulders, not just because of what we just talked about the fact that Americans are going to be looking at this debate to see who the potential next generation of each of their parties could be, but also looking to see whether these two people have what it takes to be in the in the chair, so to speak. But I think Kamala Harris understands the pressure of being a woman,
the pressure of being a black woman in this political environment. I think her team is interested in seeing how Mike Pence deals with that. I am not sure that Mike Pence, he probably has not ever had been in a situation where he's had to go toe-to-toe in a political setting against someone like with that kind of biography. And I think we will be we're all just looking to see, I don't know that I have an answer to how Pence is going to handle.
BASH: It's interesting. So, the former Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker, who played Tim Kaine, the now vice president's opponent four years ago, is involved in his debate prep now and told me that he's convinced that the Vice President will just will acknowledge it will acknowledge in an overt way the historic nature of her of her candidacy and how important it is. The question though, is, after that moment, how he moves around and maneuvers around her and whether it will be any different.
The other thing is that I'm told from people around the Harris debate prep is that they are cognizant of the fact that she is a woman and, you know, yes, it's 2020. But women are sometimes perceived differently by voters, not that they're changing anything. I mean, she is who she is, and she's confident in who she is. And she's done pretty well so far. But that is something that they're thinking about when it comes to perception.
TAPPER: And then of course, there's the whole angle that and this is Republican talking points that even if you think Joe Biden is the centrist or a moderate Kamala Harris is not. That's their pitch. And that Joe Biden is this empty vessel for the AOCs and the Kamala Harris's of the world.
[20:45:11]
And what's interesting, Dave Weigel had an interesting piece like about this on the Washington Post, is that when presented with the more progressive aspects of the party, Joe Biden tends to distance himself well, that's not me. I'm not a socialist, you know who I am. And Kamala Harris, to be honest, even though she could sell herself is more of a centrist more of a moderate, she tends to run for it, she tends to embrace the more progressive part of her party.
PHILLIP: She has in the primary. I think this is the pickle that she's going to be in tonight. She took a lot of positions in this Democratic primary in order to stay in the game that put her very far on the left. And frankly, we're kind of different from her political identity prior to that moment.
Tonight, Pence is going to try to put her in a box on those issues. I'm going to say, well, you had this position eight months ago, 10 months ago, how is it different now?
BASH: They're definitely ready for the radical left.
PHILLIP: Yes. BASH: Attack, no question about it. I wouldn't be surprised if she tries to put it back on him to say, well, which is it? Am I too far to the left or if a tax or on crime too far to the right.
TAPPER: And as we keep an eye on the debate hall, let's talk about the pandemic safety measures that are in place at the debate Hall and whether they're sufficient. Dr. Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Jonathan Reiner are both joining us right now.
Sanjay, let me start with you. You can see these live pictures of the debate stage now sign of the times. The seats are 12 feet three inches apart. Plexiglass dividers between the two candidates. If God forbid, Vice President Pence is actually a carrier of coronavirus, and he's tested negative though that doesn't necessarily mean that he's not a carrier. Will that plexiglass do anything?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the plexiglass will help with you know, the basic respiratory droplets, you know, which is a concern in terms of spreading coronavirus. But as you know, Jake, and as you know, the CDC now has on their website, we've been reporting on this for some time.
There's also evidence that this virus can spread via aerosols, I think of that more like, like smoke. So, if it's aerosolized the virus, then the plexiglass isn't really going to do much in terms of preventing that the. It can travel around the plexiglass can also travel further than, than six feet.
So you know, I mean, you look at these types of events, Jake. And I think, you know, we'll look back historically and say, we're in the middle of a pandemic, the viral transmission was growing. And we brought, you know, presidential vice presidential candidates together for a debate.
It's not a good idea. I mean, obviously, I understand the desire to do it, virtue will be much safer. Doing it outside would be much safer. They're trying to make the best of this situation. So the plexiglass offers a little bit of protection. But doesn't guarantee it by any means.
TAPPER: I agree, this is not going to stand the test of time. Particularly well, when future generations look at this. Dr. Reiner, audience members tonight have to have to take a coronavirus test. And they have to wear masks, that was the rule last time too although it was by the honor system, and that, of course required people to have a sense of honor.
And a lot of members of the Trump team who were guests, including members of the Trump family either refused to have masks on or took them off as soon as they got there. Is there a risk for people in the audience?
JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Of course, there's a risk because we're in a pandemic. You know, in -- at our hospital, we haven't had a meeting with more than a handful of people, you know, since March, because we're in a pandemic. And as Dr. Gupta just mentioned, we now know with really greater
clarity, that this virus is transmitted not just by droplets that can be blocked by plexiglass barriers, but also by aerosols, which can hang in the air and travel on the air conditioning current. So, there's really no reason to have an audience in that room. They should meet electronically.
And, you know, there is precedents for this. In 1960, the third debate, Richard Nixon was in California, JFK was in New York, the moderator was in Chicago, this was 60 years ago. It should be done now.
And not to mention the fact that the Vice President is really under quarantine now, he should be home, locked at home for not, you know, for another several days until he fills the 14-day period. There's no reason to have an audience there. There's actually no reason to have anyone there.
TAPPER: And Sanjay, that's kind of a question I have about. This is in the hands of the Commission on Presidential Debates and the Cleveland Clinic. The Harris campaign said today that it's the Cleveland Clinic's job to ensure the health and safety precautions tonight and quote, we fully expect that the Cleveland Clinic is going to do their job. To be frank they didn't do it last time. And I just wonder if you trust that the Commission on Presidential Debates and the Cleveland Clinic based on what you saw a week ago are up to the challenge of saying no, we have to do it this way.
[20:50:08]
GUPTA: Yes, well, you know, it's interesting. I'm concerned about this. And I'll tell you why. First of all, we reached out to the Cleveland Clinic about their protocols, which I'll tell you about in a second. And they said they're sort of taking their cues from the Commission on Presidential Debates, talked to the Commission on Presidential Debates, they say, we're relying totally on the medical advice of the Cleveland Clinic.
OK, so there's a lot of this going on. But when you look carefully, to your to your question, Jake, about what are the protocols, at least with regard to testing, Dr. Reiner brought up some of the other things, but with regard to testing, they said, you have to show that you have had a negative test within the last 72 hours.
And just you have to sign an affidavit, you don't have to actually show the test, we're not reviewing the test. So there's that honor system. Seventy-two hours is sort of a strange time frame, we know that you can test negative three days ago and test positive, a day later or two days later.
So in this case, they did take PCR test yesterday, but Cleveland Clinic recommendations only three days. And also, the type of test, they said you can have any FDA authorized tests, emergency use authorized test, which includes not just the more gold standard PCR test, but also the antigen test. So, there's -- it's a really porous system here. And you get the impression that it's not really designed to necessarily catch people who are positive, it's more designed to sort of check some boxes.
So, I understand what they're saying. I mean, this is the medical protocol Cleveland Clinic put forward, we've reached out to Cleveland Clinic all day to have them explain better explain to us why they would choose this system. They haven't really gotten back to us on this. But this is the system they have in place. And it's not going to catch everybody by any means.
TAPPER: And Dr. Reiner, this is also a problem because let's face it, the Trump administration, the Trump White House, they're being opaque about the President's current health situation. And they're still refusing to say when the President last tested, negative, this is important because he theoretically contracted the virus on September 26th, the Saturday when they had that event inside and outside the White House for their new Supreme Court nominee.
And after that date, on the Sunday he had an event with Gold Star families on Tuesday, he went to Ohio on Wednesday, he went to Minnesota, on Thursday, he went to New Jersey, and we have no idea when he tested positive and for some reason. The White House refuses to say when he last tested negative.
REINER: Right. And I have no confidence that he acquired it on that Saturday that the 26th, he might have acquired it earlier. Look, if you look at the President's clinical presentation, he got really sick on Thursday. Typically patients get really sick about a week after they develop symptoms.
Look at that, a week after they develop symptoms. He was certainly infected and infectious two days earlier at the debate. There's another interesting point. The President met with the RNC chairperson, Rona McDaniel, on Friday, September 25th. Five days later, she tested positive.
Now it's possible -- she could have infected the president that Friday. But it's also possible he could have infected her. So, we really need to know from Dr. Conley because he knows the date of the President's last test. We don't have to dig through the National Archives for this. Just tell us when the President last tested negative. It's very important. It's important from a public health perspective.
TAPPER: I've never seen anything like this. And I just have to say, I was told today by an official in the office of the governor of Minnesota at the White House has yet to reach out to the Department of Health in Minnesota. Anderson.
COOPER: Jake, remarkable. David Axelrod, should the next debate take place?
AXLEROD: Well, the question is, if it does take place, should it take place as planned a town hall meeting with citizens asking questions of the candidates, even if the President is somehow cleared to appear? Should that just go to as Dr. Reiner was suggesting, a more remote debate just that out of an abundance of caution? That seems like the wise thing to do. COOPER: So tonight? I mean, in the final minutes now up to this, it seems like there's a lot of both sides can make obviously a lot of mistakes. What do you think, Vice President Pence it has to do?
BORGER: Vice, you know, Vice President Pence has to say that Kamala Harris is a common law is a stalking horse for radical leftists in this country and that Joe Biden is just going to do whatever they tell them. And, you know, and I think she's got to say COVID, COVID, COVID.
COOPER: As you just saw a shot of Karen Pence, also saw Kamala Harris's husband at the debate halls.
[20:55:00]
BORGER: She's got to say, you guys miss manage this. You lied to us. More than 200,000 people are dead and this would not have happened under a Biden administration. And she has to be able to defend Joe Biden, because Pence is going to attack Joe Biden is going to attack his 47 years in public service. He's going to attack his record. And she has to be the greatest defender of Biden.
COOPER: There's now introducing the moderator there.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I just want to just stay down there may be obvious, we're saying this is a moment of great pride. Great pride for a lot of people. There are a lot of women of color. A lot of black folks, a lot of Asian folks are sitting around the TV tonight.
You know, Kamala Harris has done a lot of stuff that people don't really know, behind the scenes, you know, the African-American community has rallied behind her in a way because she went to a black college, because she's a member of a Greek letter organization. There's a massive sort of support system that's locked in place behind her.
She's representing an awful lot of people tonight, people are very proud of her. People saying she's too liberal, we are proud of the fact that she's sticking up for people who don't have health care, we're proud of the fact that she's concerned about climate solutions. She's been a fighter for us in California. She's my senator. She's somebody who I think a lot of people tonight are going to be proud to see her walk out there and make (INAUDIBLE).
He has to -- I agree with glory, he has to make the case that Kamala Harris is not a stalking horse. She is the vanguard, she is the likely successor. You know, people are looking at both these presidents now as older man and that this is a serious these are many times you get a rush of joy. I wish, you know, I wish maybe it was these two instead of the two at the head. Well, you may get your wish in this case.
AXELROD: Yes.
SANTORUM: And I think people are looking at this more seriously. And so Mike Pence has to show he's in command and tone is going to be very important for him, because he's going to go after her on her record, he has to do it in a way that doesn't turn people off that, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: That's a big thing. And secondly, for Kamala Harris, there's a reason as the front runner in the Democratic Party, that she didn't make it to Iowa. And she has to reverse course, of someone who had very uneven debates going, going into Iowa, and that's why she fails, can she execute, and deliver a composed confident message, or she going to do what she did. And during the other, she was all over the place. And you just didn't know what she thought --
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: -- that's a little issue for her.
AXELROD: You know, as you step back, I think we also had a note, we're going to have someone on the stage who represents the emerging American majority in politics and someone who rep, you know, a white evangelical former radio talk show host from the center of the country from rural America. And it is very striking to see them, the two of them sitting next to each other. And that's one of the subtext of this debate, because they do represent the future.
JONES: And they both have demands that this tone stuff in other words, if the black woman, she comes on too strong, oh, she's angry. Obviously, if Pence comes on too strong, he could come off as sexist. But I think she's going to be able to thread the needle on things she's done over and over again,
BORGER: But Pence really has to defend Donald Trump, but this may be where you and I disagree, Rick, but I think he does. You know, how many times have we heard Mike Pence say we stand on his broad shoulders? Like he said, if my shoulders we stand on his shoulders, and he's got to defend --
SANTORUM: No, I -- if he goes out there and defends Donald Trump, like he has for the last four years, you can mail this in it. He does. Look --
(CROSSTALK)
SANTORUM: No, you know, Mike Pence is running for president tonight. Because the question is not -- you know, whether these guys are potentially going to be the president. It's when they're going to be the president, right?
BORGER: When they're going --
SANTORUM: Because these are older men who are not well. And so, that's the -- that if I were Mike, that's how I be thinking. I'm running for president right now. And I've got to be my own guy. And if he's out there just apologizing for Trump, he's number one --
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: What do you think can do? AXELROD: That's very tough. He is the running mate. I understand. And then he's not at the top.
SANTORUM: He got to make the case that Donald Trump didn't effectively make on COVID. And he's got to prosecute the case on Kamala Harris, being for recent, you know, stalking the court before eliminating private health insurance. Those are big issues that he can hammer.
COOPER: We're just seconds away. Let's go back to Jake.
TAPPER: Well, we hope that coronavirus is only figuratively present in the debate hall this evening, and not literally present. But it's certainly going to be a major subject to the smog of it all and the administration's mishandling of it both when it comes to the national response and also to the fact that the White House is a hotspot.
PHILLIP: Yes. Let's just say seeing those pictures that we just saw. I'm happy to see that it seems that everybody is following the rules this time, they are wearing their masks. In their seat, which is a far cry from what we saw last week. But that those atmospherics are going to really frame this debate.
[21:00:08]
The job for the Pence side is going to be, how do you get the attention off of COVID, and on to some other things? We're going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: With plexiglass right there.
PHILLIP: With plexiglass right in front of you.
We're already seeing Pence, you know, signaling, he's going to be aiming for something that could be a weakness for Kamala Harris -- foreign policy. She's not as experienced in that area as he has become, since becoming vice president.
So, this is going to be a game of cat and mouse here between the two of them.
BASH: It will. What's interesting is that in talking to sources in both camps, of course, coronavirus is, as you said, the other, you know, kind of entity on the stage there, unfortunately. And things have changed a lot since the president and his wife and so many other people in the White House have gotten COVID.
But when it comes to the substance of what they have been preparing on both sides, it hasn't changed that much. Kamala Harris was always planning on hitting coronavirus incredibly hard, particularly the fact that he is the head of the coronavirus task force. He has culpability. She's going to actually question his confidence, of course.
And then vice versa. He was always planning on hitting her on her, you know, radical left positions, you know, whether or not that's true, and other things like law and order.
And so, I think we're going to hear a lot of those issues come up, despite the fact that it feels like we are in such a different world based on everything we've seen this week here in Washington.
TAPPER: And, again, I have to say -- I mean, we are all living through coronavirus, right? We all have kids doing remote education. We all have parents that we haven't seen in months.
And, you know, there are questions that Senator Harris could ask Mike Pence that we can't get answers to that illustrate how much the White House has not been straight with the American people.
Vice President Pence, when did President Trump last test negative? Because that's relevant, because he's been traveling all over the country, including at the debate a week ago, and in new -- and in swing state Minnesota, and in New Jersey, and in swing state Ohio. When did he test negative last? Because that's how we contact-trace.
Why are you violating CDC guidelines? Why haven't you isolated yourself?
BASH: Or why aren't you wearing a mask ever?
TAPPER: Yeah, why don't you wear a mask? You're the head of the Coronavirus Task Force.
PHILLIP: Right, yeah.
I mean, I do -- I do think that, you know, this was brought up a little bit by Kyung Lah earlier in the program, talking about Kamala Harris as a woman, speaking for women, right? This is the election of -- this enormous -- potentially, 30 percent gender gap.
And one of the reasons for that gender gap is the perception among women that this is an irresponsible administration, and you will see Kamala Harris trying to drill into that tonight repeatedly, and really tapping into her sense as a stepmom, as an aunt, as a woman herself.
That's going to be part of the challenge that Pence is going to have to face. And he can't just bat it away. She's going to be representative of that constituency.
TAPPER: And let's throw it back to Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, guys. Thank you.
The first and only vice presidential debate of 2020, in the shadow of the coronavirus, a very deadly pandemic, and President Trump's own infection. The vice president, Mike Pence, and Senator Kamala Harris, they are set to take the stage for what is going to be a truly, truly historic exchange -- perhaps the most important and significant vice presidential debate in American history, in the midst of a very, very significant crisis election.
Here's Susan Page from "USA Today".
