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CNN Live Event/Special

Trump Campaign Said to be Preparing to Declare Victory on Election Night; Texas GOP Activists to Ask Federal Court to Toss Thousands of Drive-Thru Votes; Interview with Jaime Harrison (D) about Senate Candidacy in South Carolina; Interview with Wisconsin Secretary of State Meagan Wolfe about Mail-in Ballots; Battle for Pennsylvania. 9-10p ET

Aired November 01, 2020 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[21:00:03]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Good evening. Picture this, a few hours until election night and neither candidate has the 270 electoral votes they need to win. But one of them, the president decides to declare himself the winner anyway.

It may sound absurd. But tonight, as you look at the four to five campaign stops of the president today you should know that insiders on his campaign tell CNN that is exactly what might happen. Remember the president continues to say that only votes that count should be the ones counted on election night. We'll bring you what the president has to say about our reporting.

Meantime, Joe Biden made several stops today in and around Philadelphia where he tore into the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He's done a lot of really stupid, mean things. But I think there's nothing worse that he's said or done than the way he'd spoken about those of you who served in uniform.

Guess what, man? He talks about you being losers and suckers. My son Beau Biden, who was attorney general of the state of Delaware, gave up that job to volunteer to go to Iraq for a year. He won the Bronze Star that could speak to his service in Iraq. He was not a loser. He was not a sucker. He was a patriot. Just like your sons, your daughters, your parents, your grandparents who served.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Earlier about the reporting that the president might claim victory before he's actually won, Biden said, quote, "The president is not going to steal this election."

More now on the story itself and the president's late reaction to it from Jim Acosta at the Trump rally in Rome, Georgia.

So what are you learning and how's the president reacting? JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, I

talked to a Trump adviser earlier this afternoon who said, listen, if the president is on the verge of clinching those 270 electoral votes needed to win the election, they may go ahead and declare a victory knowing that many ballots are to be counted in the days to come.

The president was asked about some of this earlier this evening. He said no, he's not going to declare victory prematurely. But in almost the same breath, he said, we're going to send in the lawyers on election night to start fighting this out in the courts if that's what's to come.

I will tell you, Anderson, a couple of things. One is the president cannot declare victory. He can't declare a victory on election night, no more than he can declare himself president for life or the pope for that matter. Just because the president says something doesn't make it so. And of course, we're going to be looking to election authorities across the country in making that final determination of who wins the presidency. The president is not going to make that call, Anderson.

COOPER: And what has the president zeroed in on in his closing appeals to voters today?

ACOSTA: Anderson, I will tell you, talking to people inside the campaign, close to the campaign, they believe these rallies are going to get out the vote on election day. They believe there's going to be a late surge on election day that will hand Donald Trump another four years in office. Of course, a lot of that is wishful thinking. He's not in Rome, Georgia, just because he likes to visit this part of Georgia this time of year.

It's because they are facing some very long odds and a lot of very important parts of the country right now in terms of that electoral map. But the message has been very much the same over the last couple of weeks perhaps kicked up to a level that we haven't seen so far. The president tearing into immigrants, declaring that parts of the United States will become refugee havens, going after former president Barack Obama, calling him Barack Hussein Obama. Going after Congresswoman Ilhan Omar.

Some of the same rhetoric that we've seen throughout this campaign but again ratcheted it up a notch earlier this evening at that rally in North Carolina. He reprised a reading of "The Snake" which is something we heard during the 2016 campaign, you know, really just seen by many people as just being a racist, racist thing to do on national television reading from that song and really making a connection to immigration in this country.

And, Anderson, the other thing that we're hearing from the president is just more denialism when it comes to this pandemic, saying again and again that we're rounding the turn when that's just not the case. And I will tell you here at this rally in Rome, Georgia, tonight, Anderson, again, another potential super spreader. Trump supporters not wearing masks, not social distancing, not being careful, and quite possibly spreading the virus as we speak, as they stand behind me right now, Anderson. COOPER: Yes. Jim Acosta, appreciate it. Thank you.

Joining us now, three people who don't need reminding that it's not over until it's over, CNN senior political commentator and former top Obama adviser, David Axelrod, CNN chief political analyst Gloria Borger, and former Republican presidential candidate and U.S. senator Rick Santorum. He, like, David, is a CNN senior political commentator.

David, how do you see things unfolding if President Trump -- you know, if they are close to 270, they don't have it but he declares himself winner?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think that everyone knows history back in 2000. George W. Bush declared himself a winner in Florida. And the theory was, you grab the real estate and it's harder to take away. And that will be his theory. The danger is that people will believe him. His supporters will believe him. And when these votes come in from Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin, if they ultimately add up to a defeat for the president, he will then leave the impression that he has been cheated out of the presidency.

[21:05:11]

And that is a terrible thing for the country. So, you know, that's my concern. I'm sure the Biden campaign will be out there aggressively making their own declarations on election night. But, you know, the president's supporters will listen to him, will believe him. And I think the consequences of that could be very, very bad.

COOPER: Senator Santorum, as a supporter of the president, would it be irresponsible for him to declare himself winner if he doesn't have 270?

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think it'd be irresponsible for either side. And, you know, I'm concerned about both sides. And I'm concerned about how supporters of both sides will react. You know, I understand, you know, that the story is about what the president will do and, you know, we've seen the president do intemperate things in the past. And let me put it this way. I'll directly say it. I mean, that's a very bad idea. And it's something that is not going to change the outcome of this election.

George Bush declaring himself the winner on election day of Florida didn't ultimately determine who was the winner. The votes determined who the winner is. And that's ultimately what's going to happen. So there's just -- there's nothing good to come of a premature announcement of winning for either side.

COOPER: Yes. But only -- I mean, I understand what you're saying both sides. But only one side so far is actually talking about declaring victory if 270 isn't called.

SANTORUM: Well, all I can say is, I think both sides will be very aggressive in trying to frame the vote on Tuesday and Wednesday and maybe Thursday and Friday. And there'll be a lot of activity on both sides if this is a close race. And I think we just have to play it down the middle and say that, you know, let the numbers decide, not the candidates, you know, trying to spin those numbers.

COOPER: Gloria, if you look what President Trump's closing argument is, I mean, he's telling his supporters doctors make more money when people die of COVID so they're faking the numbers, that the pandemic is rounding the corner, it's going away. He's alleging counting ballots after election day is fraud.

I mean, the list of lies goes on and on. It's no longer a persuasional election for President Trump. Was it ever a persuasional election or has it always been just about his base?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think it's always been about his base because I -- what I'm seeing is a rerun of 2016. And that is the campaign that President Trump is running. Except this is 2020. Not 2016. There is COVID. He is an incumbent president who can be judged on the past four years. Joe Biden is not Hillary Clinton. He is a lot more popular than Hillary Clinton.

But the president seems to be reaching still to his base which as you point out just loves him. And no matter what he says, they're going to applaud it. And that's what he needs. He needs the adulation. And I think that's what gets at these rallies.

COOPER: Gloria, "The Washington Post" is reporting that some of President Trump's advisers had said that what the president says isn't as important as the fact that he's holding rallies, that voters will be swayed by his energy. Do you buy that?

BORGER: Well, first of all, I don't buy it all the way. There is no doubt and there is saying this, that the rallies help energize voters to get to the polls. We know that. That is why Joe Biden is out there. That is why Donald Trump is out there. And that's why he's out in states that he won last time and seems to be polling behind this time.

So overall, yes, that's true. Rallies do help. But in this particular case, it also depends on what he is doing and what he is saying. Now you're in states in which COVID is going in the wrong direction. It is going up. You're having super spreader events. And you have to wonder how many people are looking at that who either might be undecided or who might like Donald Trump and say, well, why is he endangering us?

And if you look at his message, it hasn't been a coherent, this is what I'm going to do for America and for you for the next four years. Instead, it's been a list of his own grievances. He is not talking about your grievances as voters. He is talking about his own grievances and he's saying things like well, I wouldn't be here if I didn't have to run for reelection. Why would I be in Iowa? Saying things like that --

COOPER: I believe it was Erie. Yes.

BORGER: Right. It was in Erie. Sorry. Why would that enamor you to any voters who are standing out there in cold weather, waiting to hear words of wisdom from you?

COOPER: Yes. BORGER: And that he'll never return if he doesn't win.

COOPER: David, as someone who occasionally makes a speech, I'm not sure it's great to, like, tell the crowd you're speaking to you really don't want to be there.

BORGER: Yes.

AXELROD: Yes.

COOPER: That you wouldn't be there. Peter Baker, David, of the "New York Times" wrote an article today arguing that President Trump's constant and fervent lying has eroded public trust in just about everything to the point that even if he loses we have crossed a point of no return, that the trust is essentially gone. Do you think he is right?

[21:10:09]

AXELROD: Well, I think it's a really, really difficult challenge. And, you know, one of -- if Biden wins election, if he wins, he will take over not just a country that's riddled by a virus, not just a country that is in a deep economic slump, but a country that has a crisis of trust in our democratic institutions, in the media, in the sources that people once relied on for information, including the president of the United States.

He's going to have to rebuild some of that. And it's not going to be easy. You know, the president is -- he sees this as a means to an end and the end is the perpetuation of himself in power. But there are real consequences to the institutions themselves. These rallies, by the way, I mean, you know, I think his theory is that he needs to pump up his base as hot as he can get it now and get the biggest turnout that he can get.

And so, you know, he's just feeding them constant streams of red meat. You know, Biden's corrupt and the lock him up chants, Omar and AOC should be prosecuted, and so on. And we'll see if that works. But they shouldn't just be giving out masks at his rallies. They should be giving out Staten because it's red meat from start to finish.

BORGER: But then he says things like, you know, doctors are profiting off of the -- off of COVID. And you kind of wonder how that's going to play in communities across America. Lots of people know doctors. Lots of people go to hospitals.

SANTORUM: Yes. I can tell you what conservatives are concerned about. And I understand it, and you've heard me talk a lot about the -- you know, the prevacation of the president and how it undermines the office and hurts the country. And I stand by that. But what Republicans and conservatives are seeing from the other side is, these are people who are willing to do anything -- you're saying lie to win.

They are willing to do anything like change the structure of our government, change the filibuster to get rid of minority rights in the United States Senate. Stack the court. They are willing to, you know, bring the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico into statehood so they can stack the United States Senate. I mean, these are foundational changes to our country that the Democrats are flirting with right now if they take power back.

And that, at least to conservatives, is much more threatening to really the long-term institutional stability of the country than a president who admittedly lies and shouldn't do it, and is a problem, but he's not trying to change the very institutions of our country.

AXELROD: Than a president who has talked about jailing his opponents.

BORGER: Right.

AXELROD: And cheering --

SANTORUM: Look, I agree. I think he's wrong. I do.

AXELROD: And cheering on mobs that go after campaign bus of his opponent?

BORGER: Or says his attorney general should indict Barack Obama and Joe Biden, and that if they don't do it, then --

SANTORUM: I don't think we want to go to attorney generals and investigating people on the other side. I mean, Eric Holder made a living doing that, going after Republicans and, you know, the IRS and the whole -- look, both sides play those games when it comes --

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Well, but the president is ordering his attorney general.

SANTORUM: And they're both wrong.

BORGER: Yes. Well --

AXELROD: That's really -- that's not true, Rick. No president -- President Obama never said, I want you --

BORGER: He never ordered it.

AXELROD: I'm going to be disappointed if my attorney general doesn't prosecute my opponents.

BORGER: Yes.

AXELROD: That is not what --

SANTORUM: He may not have said it --

AXELROD: That never happened.

SANTORUM: But did he it.

AXELROD: That is a conversation that occurred between your left ear and your right ear. That is not a conversation that happened in the White House, I can tell you that.

COOPER: David Axelrod, Gloria Borger, Rick Santorum, thank you.

Next, the court battle with 127,000 votes at stakes, ballots cast by people trying to stay safe in a pandemic. Why some Republicans in Texas wanted them tossed. Why a panel of Republican judges just said no. And yet, they are still challenging it now in federal court tomorrow.

Later, South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham, one of the president's biggest supporters on Capitol Hill, even though he used to call comments the president made racist, is working to fend off his toughest campaign challenge. I'll talk to his Democratic opponent, Jaime Harrison.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:17:50]

COOPER: Just a few hours from now nearly 127,000 ballots already voted, already cast in a hotly contested state, will face their second big court challenge. They are drive-thru votes from in and around Houston. Republicans want them thrown out. They'll be in federal court tomorrow morning to try after a judicial slap down today from the state Supreme Court.

Ed Lavandera now joins us from Houston with the latest.

So it's the second time the all Republican state Supreme Court in Texas has blocked this Republican attempt to challenge the drive-thru voting in Harris County which has already taken place. On what grounds are the plaintiffs arguing these ballots are a problem?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, essentially what this group of Republicans here in Harris County, which is Houston, Texas, is arguing is that the Harris County clerk, Chris Hollins, is essentially rewriting Texas election law by creating these drive-thru ballot locations in various locations around the county. They say it is illegal, it is not a proper way to cast ballots.

They say they are arguing and pushing for the integrity of the election process here. But critics say they're really just doing the opposite of trying to muddy the waters in Harris County, which has been overwhelmingly voting Democratic in recent elections. And essentially these critics are saying that they're afraid of how this election is going to turn out here.

We spoke with the lawyer filing the lawsuit on behalf of that group of Republicans and we spoke with the Harris County clerk earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JARED WOODFILL, GOP PLAINTIFF: Why is this the first time and why is this the only county that's allowing drive-thru voting? It's because what Collins is doing is against the law. CHRIS HOLLINS, HARRIS COUNTY CLERK: We know that we should be

protecting these votes, making sure that all of our residents here can have their voice heard, can have their say in our democracy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: And Anderson, the real-life effects of all of this, even though the Supreme Court has shot down the Republican push tonight, is that these election officials are having to reassure these 127,000 people that their votes are OK, that they are going to count in this election.

COOPER: And so what are you learning about the emergency hearing in federal court tomorrow?

[21:20:04]

LAVANDERA: So this group of Republicans is trying on two different paths. The Texas Supreme Court down the state path, but they've also filed a complaint in federal court. There's an emergency hearing scheduled for Monday morning. They will hear essentially these same arguments. So this is not over yet. And essentially, what the lawyer the Republicans was telling me earlier today is that this gives them a couple of different paths if it needs to go that far to get to the U.S. Supreme Court.

So far, they have been slapped down here in state court. We don't know how the federal judge is going to rule. And top Texas Republicans aren't saying much about this, being very quiet. Only a handful of Republicans here in the state have come out to criticize this Republican effort. One state lawmaker here in the Houston area said that this was harmful and patently absurd.

COOPER: And just to be clear, I mean, these drive-thru locations were approved by officials. How many of these drive-thru locations were there and what percentage of early voters cast their ballots at them?

LAVANDERA: Well, this drive-thru program started off on a small scale in a pilot program during a primary run-off back in July. So it's not new. But it is new on a general election of this scale. Just to give you a sense, we are at the Energy Football Stadium location. And this is six rows of tents. There's about 30 bays for cars to drive inside. And essentially the way it would work is they would drive inside this tent.

There will be election officials in the voting screens here. You can stay in your car. The election officials will put the screen in your car. You can cast your ballot. And that's the way it gets tabulated. These 10 locations across Harris County are in locations right next to what, if you will, traditional voting locations. And that's why officials here say it is legal, it is safe and it is secure.

COOPER: Ed Lavandera, appreciate it. Thanks.

Like Texas, Ohio set record for early voting which must make our next guest especially proud, former Ohio Governor John Kasich. He's a CNN senior political commentator, Republican, and a Biden supporter.

Governor, thanks for being with us. We're about 36 hours or so away from polls opening across the country. I know you're bothered by what Republicans are trying to do in drive-thru voting in Texas. Do you think they don't realize how bad it looks or just don't care? Or are just trying to sow confusion even if doesn't work?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, everybody who is driving through, they're checking out, they know these people are legitimate, and they want to vote. And the arguments against that are just pure bunk. And I am pleased that the Texas Supreme Court said no. I'm glad to see that there's some -- a few Republicans that are condemning it because this is very, very bad.

I mean, you get a situation where they're going to say the people who have legitimately voted, their votes don't count. I mean, that is -- that's potentially explosive. And I am only saying that because it's a serious matter. We have so much anxiety, so many people on edge. And it's a dangerous precedent to start throwing things out like that. I just hope the federal judge tomorrow will make a decision like that if it -- you know, you just can't do this.

You just can't all of a sudden turn around and delegitimize people who have voted. And, you know, shame on the Republicans that are behind this. This is not right. Look, you win an election fair and square. You don't win an election by trying to prevent some people from being able to vote. This is not coming out of the mouth of a Biden supporter. I'm a Republican and I think this is just -- it's terrible.

And, you know, what we're all hoping for is that this will get settled by one -- you know, by a wider margin so we don't have to go through all the courts and all the fighting to figure out what votes would count and what votes we don't count.

Because, Anderson, every vote should count and every vote counts. As long as it's legitimate. And down there in Texas through this drive- thru voting, it should count. It's legitimate. There's no excuse for this.

COOPER: Yes. I mean, we've seen really just unprecedented efforts by the Trump administration frankly to make this vote -- to delegitimize this vote, whether it's, you know, an effort like this in Texas or to attack mail-in voting or to say that votes shouldn't be counted after, you know, anything arriving on a certain date shouldn't be counted.

I mean, it's not a good look for the Republican Party to be the party trying to limit Americans' access to voting. I mean, you would think every party would be happy that turnout is so high and that so many people are involved.

KASICH: Well, Anderson, I think we've talked about this, you know, a couple of months ago. The fact is, is that you can't have an election here where 20 percent of the people say it was not legitimate. I mean, think about what that would be like in the United States if 20 percent or 25 percent of Americans said, well, the result was not legitimate and we're not accepting it. That is like -- it's impossible to even believe in our precious country.

COOPER: Yes.

KASICH: And it's not about Republican or Democrat.

[21:25:02]

For Republicans, they're going to have to be able to come out and say -- and I said this earlier today -- that when this is decided, that it's legitimate. And that's the leaders of the Republican Party. If something happens the other way, then the Democrat leaders have to say it. And throughout our history, we've had people who have called it like they've seen it. They put country first. Both Republicans and Democrats. Republicans shouldn't get in the habit of doing this. That's for sure.

COOPER: Yes. Governor Kasich, appreciate your time.

KASICH: Thank you.

COOPER: Next up, I'll speak with Jaime Harrison, the Democrat who hopes to unseat one of President Trump's staunchest defender, South Carolina's Senator Lindsey Graham.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Few Republican senators are closer to President Trump than South Carolina's Lindsey Graham. As chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, he pushed through the confirmation of Justice Amy Coney Barrett in record time even though he had promised on tape that he would not do precisely that this close to a presidential election.

Democrat Jaime Harrison raised a record-amount of funds in the most recent quarter, $57 million, as part of an effort to unseat Graham. South Carolina is not a battleground state. And according to the most recent "New York Times" polling published two weeks ago, Harrison is trailing Graham by six points.

Jaime Harrison joins me now.

So, Mr. Harrison, with less than two days to go, how are you feeling about your chances?

JAIME HARRISON (D), SOUTH CAROLINA SENATE CANDIDATE: Anderson, I'm really excited. And for the last few days, I've been going across South Carolina on a bus talking to people about bringing hope back.

[21:30:01]

There's so much excitement. There's so much momentum that we have here in South Carolina. And we see it. We see it in the results so far in terms of the early vote in this state. We have broken the record for the early vote here in South Carolina. Now 1.2 million people have voted early. And 30 percent of those African-Americans where African- Americans only make up 26 percent of the electorate here in South Carolina. So we feel really good about where we are. COOPER: This new CNN reporting that the Trump campaign may be prepared

to declare victory on election night if the president is close, whatever that means to them is unclear, to 270 electoral votes even if large numbers of ballots have yet to be counted. The president disputes the report tonight but is also saying we'll look at what happens. What's your reaction to that?

HARRISON: Anderson, I -- you know, I sometimes don't even pay attention to all of that stuff because we just got to focus on getting people to the polls. And at the end of the day, when all the ballots are -- have been cast and they can be voted, then we will know who will be the winner for the presidential election but also the Senate elections.

You know, one of the things that we have to be very vigilant about is making sure that every eligible person in this country who wants to vote can get their vote counted. We are pushing on that here in South Carolina. We got about 2,000 ballots right now for folks -- you know, we went back and forth. The Supreme Court ultimately decided that you needed a witness signature. But there's so many folks who submitted their ballots because when they submitted it, they didn't need a witness signature. So we got to be vigilante about staying on top of it.

COOPER: What happens to those votes?

HARRISON: Well, we want to make sure every vote gets counted. And we believe that they should have an opportunity to cure the mistake if there is a mistake that happened. But you got Republicans like Lindsey Graham who are fighting against that. And that's why, you know, Anderson, I'm telling folks, this is time now that we need a new South. And we need somebody who can represent a new South, a new South that is bold, that's inclusive, that's diverse.

And Lindsey Graham has demonstrated that time and time again that he is an old relic. He is a relic of the old South. And he doesn't appreciate the diversity that we have in this great nation. And so, you know, we're going to continue to push forward. And I would love any help.

If you want to get rid of Lindsey Graham, come and help me. JaimeHarrison.com. Go on, we'd love to you volunteer. You want to give $5, whatever. We want your help because it's time to get rid of some of those feckless leadership we have in this country. And Lindsey Graham is the perfect example of fecklessness.

COOPER: What do you say to voters who might be concerned about election day itself, going out to vote on election day? They're worried about intimidation or whatever.

HARRISON: Well, you know, we have one more day of early voting here in South Carolina, Anderson, and we're encouraging everybody to just go out on Monday and just have your ballot cast. And then you can sit at home on Tuesday and watch and wait for the results or encourage other folks to go out and vote. But it's important that they just continue to go out early, avoid the chaos that may happen on Tuesday. We don't know. But we want people to go and vote and have their voices heard.

COOPER: Jaime Harrison, appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

HARRISON: Thank you, Anderson. Take care.

COOPER: Up next, a look at the other tight Senate races across the country and if President Trump will bring candidates down with him or lift them up if he wins.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:37:09]

COOPER: Along with the presidency, of course, control of the Senate is also at stake on Tuesday. Republicans and the president have a 53-47 advantage. To gain the majority, Democrats would have to gain a net of three seats from the Republicans and count on Joe Biden winning the election. If President Trump wins, Democrats would need a net gain of four seats.

Perspective now from Bakari Sellers, CNN political commentator and author of "My Vanishing Country," and we're back with former Pennsylvania senator, Rick Santorum.

So, Bakari, you hear Jaime Harrison's point of view as we quickly approach election day. How do you see the South Carolina Senate race shaping up?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, the fact that we're talking about South Carolina 48 hours before the election is a win. And someone who's run statewide in South Carolina, I mean, Anderson, I raised $750,000. Rick probably will laugh out loud at the fact that that's all I raised. But I raised $750,000 which was a lot of money. Got 42 percent of the vote. And Jaime Harrison is just running -- he's eclipsing that by leaps and bounds.

It's not just the money he's raising or the messaging he'd had but the fact that he is running one of the best campaigns we've ever seen in South Carolina. But the problem that the Republican Party has is Trumpism. And it's allowing us to expand our base because it's not just South Carolina. It's Ossoff and Warnock in Georgia. It's Espy in Mississippi. I mean, it's people who -- in states who you would not think we have an opportunity to win that people are watching closely.

COOPER: Senator Santorum, what states are you watching closely around the Senate?

SANTORUM: Well, I mean, you know, I think there are seats that Republicans are -- incumbents are struggling to hold on to. Obviously Colorado is one that looks really tough. But what I have seen in the last few weeks is that Republican Senate candidates have actually come on a little bit, just like the president has. You know, the numbers are tightening. Races like Arizona that looked to be a little bit too far have now come back. And you're seeing a couple of polls recently within the margin of error and Martha McSally is surging there. Same thing with Susan Collins in Maine. So Thom Tillis in North

Carolina. So you have several incumbents that -- you know, those are the ones you want to hold on because they generally have an -- incumbents generally have an advantage. And you lose incumbents, it's pretty hard to hold onto the Senate. So those are the ones that I'm probably focused on the most. Then we have a couple -- obviously we should pick up a race in Alabama and the other two pickups are potentially Minnesota and Michigan. And again we have polling in both those states that have it within the margin of error against incumbent Democrats.

COOPER: Do you think, Senator Santorum, that Democrats will take the Senate?

SANTORUM: You know, if I was looking at it straight out right now, I'd say the answer is yes. But a lot of races are still close. And if you believe what certainly the Trump campaign and Republicans that I talk to across the country believe that there is a surge. That they are feeling like, you know, election day is going to be a huge day for Republicans.

[21:40:01]

And if that's the case, if Trump is able to turn out those big numbers in Michigan and Minnesota, and, you know, Iowa and places like that, you know, those races could come back into play and Republicans could pick up some of those seats.

COOPER: Bakari, if Lindsey Graham wins reelection despite, you know, all the bad headlines that he's had, despite having a record-setting amount of money thrown at him, what message does that send? I mean, he'll be certainly Teflon for a while.

SELLERS: Listen, I mean, the message that it sends is that we're getting that much closer. I mean, you have to recall before Bill Clinton, California was a Republican state for six, eight cycles. South Carolina is taking its time to get there, North Carolina, Georgia or Virginia, Texas. These are all states that are turning. And so if Jaime Harrison is able to get to 45 percent, we have something to build off of.

The biggest problem that Rick Santorum, who's a friend of mine and many other Republicans, you know, the Nikki Haleys of the world, the Tim Scotts of the world, the Marco Rubios of the world, they have to contend with is the fact that this is now Donald Trump's party. And he is really limiting their growth. He is limiting their expansion. And so all of the major cities, whether or not it's Charleston, South Carolina, or Houston, Texas, they are outwardly rejecting the Republican Party.

What used to be a party of economic growth and development is now more associated with xenophobia, bigotry and racism than it is with American expansion and growth. And that's something they have to deal with. And what we're going to see on Tuesday, I firmly believe Democrats are going to take back the Senate. I'm not somebody who's sitting here bedwetting and worrying like the rest of my Democratic colleagues that the foundation and fundamentals have been set, I'm comfortable in where we are. And I just feel really, really good about going into Tuesday.

COOPER: Senator Santorum --

SANTORUM: Well, let me just --

COOPER: Yes, go ahead.

SANTORUM: Yes, go ahead. No, I was just going to say that I agree on one remark that Bakari said, which is Donald Trump has changed the Republican Party. But I don't think in the way that Bakari suggests. Yes, there are certainly elements that Trump's personality and character that are problematic. And I talk about them all the time here at CNN. But the other thing that he's done is he's really -- there's been a great realignment.

You know, the Republican Party -- Joe Biden always talks about, you know, I'm from Scranton, not Park Avenue. Well, the reality is that the Democratic Party has become more of the party of the suburbs and Park Avenue than they are of blue-collar America. And the folks who are supporting Republicans right now across the board are blue-collar folks. And I think a lot of the Trump rhetoric has kept away frankly blue-collar people of color to that message.

But the message is real. And the attraction of the policies, whether it's trade, whether it's taxes, whether it's growth, whether it's, you know, the other things that Donald Trump has done, manufacturing, energy, have great appeal across the board to a huge swath of middle America. And the Democrats are losing them right now. And I think post Trump, the Republican Party actually is in very good shape when it comes to a broad swath of the American public they can appeal to.

The big problem, and you're seeing it in South Carolina is the money now is clearly aligned with the Democratic Party. They are the party of big money. They are the ones who are going to outspend Republicans two, three, four to one. I'm talking to -- you know, congressional candidates in Pennsylvania and they are getting swamped. I mean, incumbents are getting swamped. There's so much money because big tech and all of the urban and suburban money is now Democratic money, not Republican.

COOPER: Bakari?

SELLERS: Yes, I mean, I hear Rick Santorum. And it's a good boogeyman to have. I mean, every election cycle we have, a boogeyman who's either big tech or it's some woman that the Republicans want to choose, whether or not it's Hillary Clinton or AOC. That's not the case at all. The country is changing. Whether or not Republicans want to realize that or not, the country is changing. It's becoming browner, it's becoming younger, it's becoming more progressive. Right?

And that drives Republicans insane. Because Donald Trump's party is not keeping up with that. The reason you have a young black man from Orangeburg, South Carolina, raised by a single mother, able to go to Georgetown and Yale and able to achieve these things and push Lindsey Graham to the edge is because the country is changing finally. And Jaime Harrison is going to have a fighting chance because the country is changing and the Republican Party has to catch up.

COOPER: Bakari Sellers, Rick Santorum, appreciate it. Thanks.

Just ahead, a check up on the state of the race in two battleground states, in particular the slowing rates of vote by mail in the states where the election could be decided, a worrying trend there. We'll have that when we continue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[21:48:29]

COOPER: New documents filed in federal court say on time delivery rates of ballots in key battleground states are slowing. That just as legal fights over whether states can extend their deadlines to receive ballots is gearing up.

Wisconsin, one of those states, its on time rate now below 90 percent. Already state officials have lost their challenge before the Supreme Court to maintain its extended deadline for ballots by mail.

According to those same court filings, it's the third day in a row that the U.S. Postal Service has moved fewer ballots on time in these battleground states than it did in the previous day.

I'm joined by Wisconsin's top election official, Meagan Wolfe.

Miss Wolfe, thanks for being with us. How concerned are you about this delay in the Postal Service deliveries especially given the Supreme Court already ruled Wisconsin can't accept mail-in ballots past election day?

MEAGAN WOLFE, WISCONSIN ELECTIONS ADMINISTRATOR: Well, first, thanks so much for having me. And thanks for that question. You know, we've really been focused this year on voter education. In this case, advising voters that it could take up to a week for their ballot to be returned by mail. Our local election officials have also expanded their ballot return options, including drop boxes and drive-thru options. And as we get closer to election day, voters are utilizing these alternatives.

We also work closely with local post masters and election officials to coordinate the delivery of ballots to get them to the polls as quickly as possible. But if voters still have a ballot at this point, they should return it to a drop box or directly to their local election official to ensure it is returned in time to be counted.

COOPER: So at this point if you're in Wisconsin and you have a ballot at home, do not put it in the mail, you're saying.

[21:50:06]

WOLFE: Yes, right. Exactly. Return it directly to your local election official. COOPER: So if less than 90 percent, if the delivery rate is less than

90 percent, it seems to be dropping over the last couple of days. Do you have any idea at how many thousands of ballots you're talking about possibly not being counted?

WOLFE: You know, we haven't seen any trends to indicate that there is any part of the state where ballots are being delayed. We also know that our local postal branches are really making efforts to hold local mail and route them directly to local election officials. And so I think as we get again closer to the election, we are also seeing that voters are utilizing other alternatives to get their ballots back in time to be counted.

COOPER: Can somebody track their ballot that they've sent in by mail to see if it's been received in Wisconsin?

WOLFE: They can. Yes. They can actually track their ballots when they're sent to them and then upon return to make sure that it made it back to the local election official on time. And these are just some of the improvements that we've made to our system since our April election and since this new surge of absentee voting.

COOPER: So if come, say, by tomorrow or election day, somebody is tracking their ballot and they see that it hasn't been received, what happens? Can they go then to vote in person? Can they go to the clerk's office, you know, tomorrow and get another ballot and do it there?

WOLFE: Yes. Thanks again for that question because I think that's also a really important clarification. Now every state is different. But in Wisconsin, there is a specific law that says if you've returned your absentee ballot, you're not eligible to vote at the polls on election day. And so that's why it is so critical to get a ballot back in time by a method where you'll be most successful. Because once it's been returned, you're not eligible to vote in person.

COOPER: So at what point over the last couple of days -- I know you said today people should not be mailing in their ballots. When was the last time people should have been mailing in their ballots? So, like, anybody who's watching who mailed it in a ballot, you know, yesterday, should they be concerned? Or mailed it in on Friday, should they be concerned?

WOLFE: Our messaging really focused around, you know, a week out from the election being the practical deadline for getting those ballots back. And so if somebody has mailed their ballots back within the last few days, again, I know that our local post masters and our local election officials, they're working really closely together to coordinate getting those ballots back to be counted.

COOPER: All right. Meagan Wolfe, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

WOLFE: Thank you.

COOPER: Now the race in Pennsylvania a focal point for both campaigns. Joe Biden spent the day specifically in Philadelphia after President Trump did a tour of the state yesterday.

More now on that from Sara Murray.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Do you know what's looking good? Pennsylvania is looking good.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's crunch time in the Keystone State.

BIDEN: My message is simple. Pennsylvania is critical in this election.

TRUMP: And if we win Pennsylvania, it's over. It's over.

MURRAY: President Donald Trump eked out a victory by roughly 44,000 votes in 2016. The first Republican to carry Pennsylvania since 1988. The crumbling blue wall shocked Democrats as Trump went on to the Oval Office.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I love you, Philadelphia. Honk if you're fired up. Honk if you're ready to go. Are you fired up?

MURRAY: This election season, both sides are unleashing their loyal foot soldiers in the hopes of notching a win.

CHRISTOPHER NICHOLAS, PENNSYLVANIA GOP STRATEGIST, PRINCIPAL, EAGLE CONSULTING GROUP: They know they need this to win and I think that's why they've been here a lot. And both parties go to bed at night thinking they left a lot of votes on the table here in 2016.

MURRAY: For Joe Biden, it's personal.

BIDEN: I live in Delaware but I'm a Pennsylvania boy. Born in Scranton.

MURRAY: The former vice president was born in Scranton and raised there until his family moved to Delaware when he was in grade school. His Pennsylvania roots stuck and some dubbed him Pennsylvania's third senator while he was in Congress.

This year officials across Pennsylvania are preparing for an election unlike any other. For the first time, everyone can vote by mail and more than three million applied to do so. Officials say they most likely won't know election night who won the state.

KATHY BOOCKVAR, PENNSYLVANIA SECRETARY OF STATE: The speed cannot outweigh the importance of the accuracy. My staff is working around the clock. I'm working around the clock. None of us are sleeping now.

MURRAY: By law, mail-in ballots can't even be opened until the morning of the election day. And ballots received up to three days after November 3rd are allowed to be counted.

TRUMP: November 3rd is going to come and go and we're not going to know. And you're going to have bedlam in our country.

MURRAY: The state's rules have sent the president into tirades as his rhetoric draws a jab from the state's Democratic governor.

GOV. TOM WOLF (D), PENNSYLVANIA: If you don't think you're going to win, then, you know, I did this in little league. You call into question the rules.

MURRAY: And a sharp warning about voter intimidation from Philadelphia's district attorney.

[21:55:03]

LARRY KRASNER, PHILADELPHIA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This is the cradle of democracy and I do in fact have something for the president if he wants to send people here to break the law. I have a cell. I have criminal laws. And I have a jury, a very diverse jury, that is going to want to hear why these people came to steal our votes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And Sara Murray joins us now.

How concerned, though, Pennsylvania officials about the ballots that will come in after election day and possible confusion over last- minute changes?

MURRAY: Well, they certainly are concerned. I mean, look, we heard the president talking all day today about these ballots that come in after election day being a problem. As of right now, they still count if they're received before November 6th. They're still going to be counted. But they are going to be segregated because officials here say that they know that there can be future legal challenges. They say they know the Supreme Court could decide to take this up again. And that's certainly weighing on their minds. I mean, much like we just heard in Wisconsin, they're saying get your ballot in now. Do not put it in the mail.

COOPER: Sara Murray, thanks very much.

Next, vote by mail issues in the battleground state of Florida when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Tonight we reported extensively about the problems of slowing on-time delivery of ballots for election officials in critical battleground states. There's breaking news out of Florida about that right now. Postal Service officials in that state say they'll add more inspections at facilities in South Florida. This comes after ballots were found in a backlog of mail in one post office. And a federal judge ordered daily updates on the situation as part of an ongoing lawsuit against the U.S. Postal Service.