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Trump Campaign Prepared to Declare Victory Even Before Counting of Ballots Completed; Trump Tries to Raise Doubts on Counting Ballots after Election Day; Trump and Biden on Last Day of Campaign; FBI Investigates Alleged Harassment of Biden Bus Campaign by Trump Supporters; Republicans Take Election Fight to Courts; Trump Threatens Legal Action Over Speed Of Vote Count; Source: Trump Campaign Prepared To Declare Victory Even If Many Ballots Have Not Been Counted, Trump Denies Story; Latino Voters Could Play Key Role In Battleground States; Trump Suggests Me Fire Dr. Fauci If Rejected; Trump Holding Rallies As COVID-19 Cases Surge. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired November 02, 2020 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Donald Trump trying to sow doubt, new reporting on his possible plans for election night, and the court cases that could also keep us waiting long past that.

Hello everyone, I am Kate Bouldan. It's 2:00 a.m. here in New York. You are watching CNN Special Live Coverage of the Countdown to Election Day in America.

We begin our live coverage of this hour with President Donald Trump denying reports of his plans for Election Day. CNN has learned that the Trump campaign plans to be, quote/unquote, "very aggressive" Tuesday night. And by aggressive, they mean preparing to declare victory before he hits the threshold of 270 electoral votes.

Apparently, they think getting close is enough, even though it is not, and even though potentially millions of ballots could still have not been counted.

The president, at the moment, calls the reports false. And speaking of false, there was a lot of that at the president's rally on Sunday. He repeated the false claim that only votes counted November 3rd are valid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF America: The Supreme Court gave the more time, more time. So, what does this mean? Does this mean we go and we wait? So, it's not November 3rd. it's gonna be much later than then. No, no. We should know the results of the election on November 3rd, the evening of November 3rd.

(CROWD CHEERING) That's the way it's been and that's the way it should be. What's going on in this country? What's going on?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOULDAN: That is just simply not true. It is also not possible, and it's really never been true. As for Joe Biden, he's making it clear that he knows his path to victory, runs through Pennsylvania. Here is what he had to say at one stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D) 2020 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In two days, we could put an end to the presidency that has divided this nation. In two days, we could put an end to a president that has failed to protect this nation. In two days, we could put an end to a presidency that has fanned the flames of hate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Biden not only spent time campaigning there in Pennsylvania Sunday. Biden and his running mate, Kamala Harris, will also be there today. And President Trump and Vice President Mike Pence will also be in the commonwealth.

The path to 270 appears to run through this Rust Belt states for vote campaigns we've been talking about and their travel plans make it apparent as well.

Every campaign stop today is critical, as it is really the final pitch before the candidates themselves stop talking, and the voters have their say.

CNN's John King shows us how it could come down to one state to decide the outcome.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF U.S. CORRESPONDENT: Crunch time now in the 2020 race. Monday will be the last full day of campaigning, a very busy day on the trail Sunday, and we have some indications.

First, let's just look at Monday travel, watch the candidates on where they're gonna be, where they're gonna close out on Monday. Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, North Carolina for Donald Trump. Pennsylvania, for Joe Biden. Pennsylvania for Kamala Harris. The Democrats have made it crystal clear. This is not subtle. Pennsylvania they view as essential to this campaign. The Vice President Mike Pence will also help the president, and Pennsylvania as well.

Why all the focus on Pennsylvania? Let's walk through some of the late polls. Opportunity for Biden to have a big win. But also if the president has a big Election Day turnout, a possibility, that this all comes down to Pennsylvania.

Let's choose the 2016 map. Let's just go through a few of these late battleground polls. These came out on Sunday, New York Times Sienna College Poll shows Biden up 3 in battleground Florida. But Washington Post ABC poll shows Trump up 2 battleground Florida.

Those of you who follow our politics know, Florida, it's always tight like this. If you average them all out, a slight lead for Biden, but essentially a statistical dead heat, very competitive race in the state of Florida right now.

Let's move up the coast a little battleground of North Carolina. Like Florida, Joe Biden doesn't need it. Like Florida, Donald Trump does. He has to win Florida, has to win North Carolina if he he's going to have a path to reelection.

And if you look here, again, 6 point lead, 51 to 45, narrow lead, not outside of the margins for Trump to come back and win, but Biden poised to flip North Carolina. That would be a huge deal.

Now, let's come up here to the industrial Midwest. Wisconsin, one of the states that made Donald Trump president, Democrats hadn't lost since 1992, but they did lose it in 2016, 8-point Biden lead in the final days in Wisconsin, very significant. If Joe Biden can hold the state, he is on his way to building the coalition, the path of 270 electoral votes.

Trump campaign says it will overcome it, but 8 points is a big margin. At the end, even bigger, the margin for Biden in Michigan, another one of those industrial states that helped made Donald Trump president. Again, the incumbent president at 41 in the final days of the campaign, that's trouble, 53-41 there.

[02:05:03]

Let's lastly look at the state I mentioned, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And again, if you look at the polls here, some new polls out on Sunday, Biden plus 6, New York Times Siena College; Biden plus 7 Washington Post ABC News. If you average them all out, which is smart, don't invested anyone poll, Biden plus 6 in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Why is that state so important? Let's come here and look at the race from this perspective. This is Donald Trump's map 4 years ago, right? If Joe Biden, if all of these polls lately hold, Joe Biden has a good Election Day turnout.

Joe Biden can change the map. He can win Florida. He can win North Carolina. He can take back Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin for the Democrats. He is competitive. He could win in Arizona, and more. There is even more where Biden is competitive, but let's just call it a day there, 330 there. Biden could go even higher. Some say, possible 350 or more. Some Democrats even dream of taking Texas.

But you get the point. If it breaks late and the poll state Biden's way, he can have a big win. But what if there is a china Election Day turnout for the Republican? What if, for example, the president holds Arizona despite those polls, holds Florida despite those false, holds North Carolina, keeps Ohio, keeps Iowa? Then, it comes down as it did four years ago to the states here. That Wisconsin lead for the vice president -- Former Vice President Biden was pretty comfortable. Let's give him that. The Michigan lead was even bigger. Let's give him that.

In this scenario, where the president holds, then what happens? Well then, we get down to this. If Donald Trump can hold Pennsylvania, he wins reelection. If Joe Biden can take Pennsylvania away, he wins reelection.

So, in a pessimistic scenario for the Democrats where Donald Trump hold some of the states where Biden is ahead right now, both campaigns acknowledging and the Monday schedule is proof of this, this race could come down to one state, Pennsylvania. It's 20 electoral votes. And if it does, it is possible we would have to wait a day, or two or three to know the winner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: John, thank you for that. And as John is pointing out in this final stretch, both the Trump and Biden campaigns are focusing on these must win swing states, these must-win battleground states.

One of them is Wisconsin, which Donald Trump captured in 2016. The president will be campaigning there in the coming day, along with the other battle -- critical battlegrounds that you see right there in yellow.

Bill Weir is on the ground in Wisconsin, finding out what is on the minds of Wisconsin voters.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Madison, there are so many signs of a vibrant democracy, even as they braced for Election Day like an approaching hurricane. Some are more worried about a repeat of what happened in Kenosha. Others, threat more by COVID-19, tearing through the state at nightmare rates, and the president, who refuses to take it seriously with every visit.

TRUMP: We're rounding the curve. We're rounding the corner.

JOHN BORGWARDT, WISCONSIN VOTER: I don't understand how he can downplay the seriousness of this. It totally escapes me.

WEIR: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's wrong.

ANN HEASLETT, WISCONSIN VOTER: I think Biden will win this state. I think it has strongly affected the way that I would vote. I think Trump has handled this abysmally.

WEIR: They are among the thousands pouring through this coronavirus testing center in Madison each day as deaths top 2000, new cases set records, and hospitals near overflowing. But in Trump's Wisconsin, from farm country up north to the suburbs of Milwaukee, there is a very different level of COVID concern.

Did it affect the way you think about this election?

MICHELLE ANDERSON, WISCONSIN VOTER: Not at all. Just stay safe. They have lots of hand sanitizer and they have lots of alcohol wipes. They have glass protection. It's very safe. My biggest reason for voting for Trump is Biden -- I don't believe he is going to live that long. And I am a female, but I just -- I'm not really comfortable with two females in office. And I don't care for Nancy, so.

BIDEN: Donald Trump waved the white flag, surrendered to the virus.

WEIR: After nearly 2 million absentee ballots were sent out, less than 200,000 are still outstanding. But those could mean the difference. So, both sides wonder, how many are stuck in the mail?

Election mail had gotten so slow in Wisconsin. A federal judge this week ordering the postal service to do a statewide sweep, starting tonight. And if they find any ballots, take extraordinary measures to get them in a time. But that's just getting them in.

Back in April, 23,000 absentee ballots were rejected because of voter didn't know to sign the envelope or put the address of their witness on. Now, at actual polling places like this, there are friendly folks to help you avoid mistakes. But Donald Trump won Wisconsin by less than 23,000 votes. So, mistakes matter.

BEN WIKLER, WISCONSIN VOTER: The thing is that because we had a dress rehearsal in Wisconsin of how to do a pandemic election, we know how to do it now. And I think we're gonna see a much more effective election apparatus than our state has ever seen in these final two days.

WEIR: And for those worried about Tuesdays crowds, take heart. After testing a quarter million people, so far not a single worker here caught the virus.

[02:09:58]

KEN VAN HORN, MADISON & DARE COUNTY EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS COORDINATOR: On any given day, one of our tester is probably exposed to about 80 positive cases and they are wearing a mask and a face shield, and that's keeping them safe.

WEIR: So, knowing that, what do you think when you see these big political rallies with thousands of people without masks?

VAN HORN: I worry whenever I see a large gathering without masks because I know the virus is gonna -- is going to spread in that community. And I worry for them. I wish people would just wear masks.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDUAN: Bill Weir reporting on the ground in Wisconsin for us. Bill, thank you so much. The FBI says that it is launching investigation into a confrontation between Trump supporters and a Biden campaign bus in Texas. You remember we brought you this story, the first reporting, and these image -- images yesterday.

This is the Biden campaign bus heading to an event in Austin, Texas. You're seeing a caravan then of pick-up trucks and other cars displaying Trump 2020 flags surrounding the bus. What we learned happened is really forcing the bus to slow down to about 20 miles an hour on the interstate.

Neither Joe Biden or Kamala Harris were aboard and no one was hurt. But still after this, the FBI made its -- after the FBI made this announcement that it has launched an investigation.

The president once again defended his supporters, talking about what happened there in Texas, tweeting this, in my opinion, these patriots did nothing wrong. Instead, the FBI and justice should be investigating what Donald Trump says are terrorists, anarchists, and agitators of antifa who run around burning down our Democrat-run cities and hurt our people. We'll have much more on that a little later in the show.

Still ahead, they could be one of the most powerful voting groups in this election. How both campaigns are counting on and still trying to convince Latino voters.

And this campaign isn't just being fought on the trail. It's already being fought in the courts. Legal battles across the country and their impact on this election.

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[02:15:00]

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BOLDUAN: It is the final day to campaign. It is the definition of the final sprint. And where the candidates and their campaigns and surrogates are focused in, where they are traveling to, that really tells the whole story at this point.

Let me bring in right now Ron Brownstein. He is a senior editor of the Atlantic, and a CNN political analyst.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Ron -- hi, Ron. So, where Donald Trump, he's gonna be hitting up a bunch of states again today just like you did yesterday --

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. Joe Biden and everybody that Joe Biden knows, apparently, is -- they are posting up in Pennsylvania today. BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Where they are going on this final day of campaigning, what does it tell you?

BROWNSTEIN: Not only the stakes, but there's something really interesting in the counties. Well, first of all, the fact that Biden and Harris are converging on Pennsylvania. You know, she kind of spent the last week on the Sun Belt tour, right? I mean she did Nevada, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Florida, North Carolina, and Georgia again, kind of states the Democrats want to have, don't need to have in many ways reflect the future of the party.

Look at where Joe Biden has been for the most of the last week. I mean it is what he was hired to do, win back some of those Rust Belt states, three blue wall states in particular that tip to Trump, and he's been in places like Iowa and Minnesota and Michigan, and Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.

But there's one little further detail that I think is unbelievably telling. Look at where Biden is tomorrow. He is in Beaver County, Pennsylvania. For that matter, Harris is in Luzerne County, Pennsylvania. What's so interesting about both those places? They are both places that Donald Trump won by 19 points.

We've both been covering politics for a while. How often the day before the election is a candidate in a county that it's party lost by almost 20 points rather than one where they know they have a big vote and they're just trying to whip it up and turned it out?

I think that is very reflective of Biden's belief that the key to winning this race is not only to max out the places that have turned even more away from Trump since 2016, the places Hillary Clinton won like Philadelphia where she ended the campaign. But the key for him, Kate, is to sand down the margin just a little bit in a lot of blue- collar Trump country, like Beaver and Luzerne, Pennsylvania.

BOLDUAN: That's a great analysis. You're taking about kind of the shifts in that state and what --

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: -- what they're trying to capture. Another state where there are shifts happening is Arizona.

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah.

BOLDUAN: And there's brand new polling out from the state that shows Joe Biden with a 6-point lead. And you point out, Ron, the polling in one county, Maricopa County, of course, where -- that's where Phoenix is, is particularly important. What do you see there?

BROWNSTEIN: Yeah. I know. Maricopa is the other side of the ledger. Like a lot of these states like Pennsylvania or Florida, if Biden wins, it's not going to be doing -- it's not going to be by doing anything flashy. It's going to be like losing places like Erie and Beaver by 3 or 4 points less, or you know, the blue collar counties in Central Florida.

Arizona is different. No Democrat has won Maricopa County since 1948. Harry Truman was the last Democrat to win it. And Maricopa, in fact, was the largest county in the country that Donald Trump won last time. He only won 13 of the 100 largest counties. Maricopa, center (ph) on Phoenix, was the biggest of all.

But in 2018, as you saw those white collar voters pull away from Trump's vision of the Republican Party, Maricopa flipped, and Kyrsten Sinema, the Democrat, won it in the Senate race. That's the principal reason she beat Martha McSally.

Now, you are seeing in 2020 polling consistently all year Biden ahead in Maricopa because now he's got -- you got two forces. You got reinforcements, the cavalry. Not only do you have college educated white vote that has moved away, and Biden was leading among them in both the CNN Poll and the New York Times Poll in the last couple of days in Arizona. But now, you have a new element that wasn't there in 2018, which is seniors, of which there are no shortage in Maricopa county.

So, you put those two things together, Biden is in position to win Maricopa. I've said for 2 years that is the single county that I think Trump cannot survive losing. If he loses Maricopa, it is highly likely that Joe Biden this president.

[02:20:04]

BOLDUAN: All right. Another county to put on the list to watch but a good one.

BROWNSTEIN: That is one to watch. Yes, good night.

BOLDUAN: Thank you so much, Ron. It's great to see you. Thank you so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you. You bet.

BOLDUAN: So, the election will be decided at the ballot box. In many places across the country, it is also already being fought in the courts. Remember, more than 93 million votes have already been cast.

In Texas, a federal appeals court is set to hear a case today with more than 120,000 votes hanging in the balance as Republican are pushing to have all of those votes invalidated, all coming from the Houston area, because of what you are looking at your screen right now -- because the votes were cast using a drive-through method, set up, tested and previously approved by the county.

The Texas Supreme Court just decided with the county to say the votes are valid. But Republican are promising to continue this fight as far as the U.S. Supreme court. The debate isn't just about how you vote, but when that vote is counted. President Trump had this to say on that on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: I think it is a terrible thing when ballots can be collected after an election. I think it is a terrible thing when people or states are allowed to tabulate ballots for a long period of time after the election is over because it can only lead to one thing and that's very bad.

You know what that thing is? I think it is a very dangerous, terrible thing. And I think it is terrible when we can't know the results of an election the night of the election in a modern-day age of computers. I think it is terrible thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The president was speaking there about a Supreme Court decision allowing mail-in ballots received up to three days after the election in Pennsylvania to be counted. There is a lot to get out here.

Let's get more right now. Let me bring in Franita Tolson. She is a CNN election law analyst and vice dean at USC Law School. Thank you so much for getting up and joining me or staying awake, whichever one it is.

What happened at the Texas Supreme Court -- with the Texas Supreme Court? First and foremost, why are Republican challenging all of these ballots?

FRANITA TOLSON, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: Well-- so, Texas is -- has become a bit of a battleground state. So, Democrats are -- at least some Democrats are optimistic that they can win the state. And so, of course, anytime you have the state that is approaching battleground status, you're going to have more litigation over ballots and legitimacy of certain ballots.

And so, here, you have a challenge towards ballots that were cast through the drive-through voting. Now, keep in mind, Kate, this is a process that was approved under Texas state law. And so, really, the result out of the Texas Supreme Court today was no surprise.

These voters, they cast their ballots, in accordance with state law. They have a reliance interests, right? They expected their ballots to count. They did what they were supposed to do. So, had the court decided it differently, that actually would've been quite radical.

So, tomorrow, there's a hearing on -- in federal court where the plaintiffs are trying to go through federal court now to challenge the legality of these ballots. And hopefully, the outcome will be the same because there is a doctrine in federal law that really frowns on the ability of plaintiffs who have lost in state court then try to litigate the same issue in federal court. So, hopefully, it will be the same outcome.

BOLDUAN: So, standby on that one. Let's also go to Pennsylvania because that's the -- that is the -- the commonwealth is one that we must talk about all the time because that's where -- when you're talking about battlegrounds, that's really the battleground to be at. The latest there is that the Secretary of State is telling all counties that they need to keep separate all mail-in ballots that arrived after Election Day. She is also saying that those ballots are to be counted.

The Trump campaign put out a statement Sunday night about this kind of -- she was clarifying the guidance on. I'll read you just part of the reaction that they put out. They put out -- they say this, Secretary Boockvar's new guidance, a mere 36 hours out from Election Day, confirms Democrats true motive, stealing this election from President Trump with late illegal ballots.

Is that what is happening in Pennsylvania at all?

TOLSON: Honestly, I will never understand that rhetoric. So, on Election Day, essentially, what you have a projections, right? The idea of it counting past Election Day means that the ballots are fraudulent or they shouldn't count is just -- is just not how our system works.

You have military voters, you have overseas voters, you have people who mail-in their ballots, and states receive them and they count them well after Election Day. In the days after Election Day, states will certify the results, and that is when you get the official winner.

And so, this idea that Pennsylvania by segregating certain ballots after Election Day, well, that's an anticipation of the inevitable litigation. Minnesota is doing a similar thing in part because the Trump campaign and Republicans have been challenging these ballot receipt deadlines.

[02:25:02]

And so, in some ways, it's smart for them to do this because they are separating out ballots that are likely to be challenged in litigation. It doesn't mean the ballots are illegal or should not be counted.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. And I will say from my reporting, all of the officials in Pennsylvania know that everyone is watching their every move because they are the battleground of the battleground. So, trying to sneak something in under the wire does not seem like it's going to go unnoticed or caught --

(CROSSTALK)

TOLSON: They are not in an enviable position at all.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. That's definitely one way to put it. I did want to ask you also about this reporting that we have coming into CNN, Jim Acosta's reporting, that the president is, according to a campaign adviser, planning and preparing to declare victory before they reach the threshold of 270 electoral votes on Tuesday night, before all the votes would be counted.

I just -- could you just spell out what election law allows because he can't declare victory. TOLSON: He can say whatever he wants to say. That doesn't mean it has any legal effect. It's the equivalent of refusing to concede, right? The law does not require a concession just like the law will not prevent him from declaring victory. But it has absolutely no legal effect, right?

The counting will continue. The ballots will continue to be tabulated until we get an official winner of this presidential election. I think the concern though, Kate, is that his rhetoric could have some impact on his voters who think that he is the winner because he says he's the winner by then.

And as there are increasing concerns about violence surrounding this election, that rhetoric becomes especially dangerous. But generally speaking from a legal standpoint, it doesn't really mean anything.

BOLDUAN: Yeah. The more we talk about what the law lays out though, hopefully, the more it informs everyone how they take in that rhetoric if and when it comes. Franita, thank you so much for coming on.

TOLSON: Of course. Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Still ahead for us. It could be days or even weeks until we know the outcome of this election. But a source does tell CNN as we were just talking about with Franita Tolson, the president is preparing to declare victory on Election Day, the night of the election, even if the full results aren't in. What the fallout from that could be, that's ahead.

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[02:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Welcome back to our viewers here in the United States, and around the world, you are watching CNN special live coverage of the countdown to Election Day in America. I'm Kate Baldwin, thanks for joining us.

President Trump is denying reports that he is preparing to declare victory on election night, even if the complete result is not yet in. Donald Trump is denying that but the Trump Campaign Adviser tells CNN that he is likely to declare victory, on Tuesday night, if he gets anywhere close to that magic number of 270 electoral votes.

At the same time, the president continues to try and sow doubts in then election. Railing against the time it is going to take to count the unprecedented number of ballots, especially mail-in ballots, this cycle. He is also reeling against the Supreme Court decision that allows Pennsylvania to count votes received after Election Day per state law. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Supreme Court gave them more time. So, what does this mean? Does this mean we go, and we wait? So it is not November 3rd, it is going to be much later than then. No, we should know the result of the election on November 3rd the evening of November 3rd. That's what it should be, and what it's going on this country? What's going on?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now, CNN's Senior Political Analyst, John Avlon, and CNN Senior Political Commentator, Margaret Hoover. Margaret you hear that from President Trump, but what is the reality of what he is saying?

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTOR: I mean, what he is doing is he is sowing discord, and distrust, in the electorate. It strikes me I've spent a little bit of time reviewing, on air, election interference.

Foreign adversaries, AKA, looking at a Russia is trying enormously hard to sow discord in the electorate. The truth is they don't have to have massive disinformation campaigns that are well-placed overall social media when the President of the United States is doing their work for them.

And it just strikes me Kate because the criticism the Obama Administration came under in 2016 was that they weren't transparent with the American public soon enough. They waited until October to lead Americans knows that Russians were trying to meddle and interfere in the election.

Because they didn't want to do the Russians work for them that was the excuse. Now, you have a President of the United States, who has no qualms about saying the exact same thing that Russian propaganda television is saying right now.

BOLDUAN: Yes, we've been seen reporting from the great David Singer who says that the main unit he was in charge of that Russian misinformation campaign, they just need to - they don't literally just taking Donald Trump's words, and pushing that out. He is doing the work for them.

John, you have been looking into how this election is going to look? The results, how the night is going to go? The day afterward is going to go? How it is going to be different? Why is it expected that vote counting is going to take longer in key states?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: First of all, let's be clear that what the president said about we always find out on election night is not true. Votes are always counted past election night. Sometimes, the projections of the margins are big enough that you know which way the story is going to go?

But the reality is, whether its military ballots, or every state has got its own rules, and it takes time to count ballots. That is before adding in a pandemic, with an unprecedented amount of early voting, and mail-in voting.

In many states, as a result of their lockdown laws, they don't even begin counting those until election, day or election night. So the president is just spreading more misinformation, but that is what we have come to expect from him?

What is new is this idea that he may, though he's denying it, but his campaign is saying it out loud to supporters, declare victory regardless of the outcome on election night because that is the kind of chaos that he wants to create.

BOLDUAN: Margaret, he is wrong, not, John but the president we're talking about.

AVLON: I appreciate that Kate.

BOLDUAN: The president is wrong. But, it is pretty un-brand for Donald Trump. I mean, he has been creating out of thin air conspiracy theories of widespread voter fraud in the 2016 election, since the moment that he took office.

[02:35:00]

BOLDUAN: Does this, what he is doing now, does this have a different impact though?

HOOVER: I think it's more severe. It's more severe because of these are completely unprecedented times, and unprecedented moments voting unprecedented in the context of voting in the middle of a pandemic. We haven't done this for 100 years, since 1918.

And so it does have a different effect especially because there are social media and all of these new technologies that help to divide and really exploit our divisions and leverage our divisions in ways that really do make a very brutal electorate and a very brutal country potentially more ignitable.

And so he is playing with fire, Kate. The president is playing with fire. I hate to say that it's not something that makes me comfortable to say or it certainly makes me happy to say. But I think Americans have also known who this president is and have seen it?

As John said, we have come to expect it as you, said it is on brand. So, my great hope is that there is sort of more of a quieter majority of the country that is decent, and patient, and understands that votes take time to be counted in a pandemic, and will wait.

It is my great help also that the media organizations will tell the story straight. So, any candidate doesn't have 270 electoral votes, they may declare victory, but nobody else will. Then, your party has won well, you haven't won.

AVLON: Sometimes I tell our eldest son Jack just because somebody has a banana in their hand, and calls it a gun, doesn't make it a gun. The president can say whatever he wants, but the law is going to take precedent over whatever fantasia he is living in.

BOLDUAN: And just on practical manner, John, do you think when it comes to, as Margaret was saying how news organizations are going to be reporting on election results, regardless of what the president is saying, do you think there is an element to just kind of after 2016 that people and organizations will be I don't know if you want to call it gun-shy or maybe appropriately cautious, I'm not sure which it is because of 2016 expectations and results?

AVLON: Absolutely. Absolutely and I don't think it is just the county. I think the entire run up to the election. Look, the national polls ended up being proven largely right in the 2016 race. But the state polls were off and a lot of people were shocked.

And I think it created a sort of almost a self protective approach to the election. Even before COVID, frankly, I thought that President Trump was in trouble for reelection because his numbers suggested that he has never been about 15 percent approval ever and that's the problem especially you know before COVID we had unemployment in 3 percent range.

But a lot of reporters and a lot of journalists both healthy dose of humanity, a healthy dose of skepticism and we are being self protective in saying, you know he is going to find some way to get reelected.

Obviously, in Trump world a lot can happen in a very short period of time. But I think we should be cautious, we should be skeptical we should verify everything twice. We shouldn't believe anybody's anecdotes, but we also should believe lies and spin just because it comes from one side.

BOLDUAN: Great to see you, guys thank you.

HOOVER: Thanks Kate.

BOLDUAN: They are a powerful group of voters, and they are voting in large numbers in several crucial battleground states when we come back, Latino voters, and their impact on this election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[02:40:00]

BOLDUAN: Welcome back. You're watching CNN's special live coverage of the countdown to Election Day in America. Latinos make up 17.5 half percent of the U.S. population. So far, this election only 11 percent, they have only made up 11 percent of the early vote.

For Joe Biden, Latino voter turnout is key, because a majority supports him. Biden has a 33 point lead in a new NBC News Wall Street Journal Telemundo Poll, of Latino voters. But, only turnout can of course turn that supports into votes so that could make the difference in close states like Arizona and Florida, as both Biden and President Trump are well aware.

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TRUMP: One of the problems with Florida for the other side for sleepy Joe and the Democrats is that they say what happened to the Hispanic Americans and that voting? What, they're not coming out for sleepy Joe? (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now CNN Political Commentator and Democratic Strategist Maria Cardona. Maria thanks for getting up again to join. You've heard the president said this evening, last night about Latino voters. We have seen some reports that early voting turnout among Latinos is lagging. Does that concern you?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, let's just say that we are never overconfident on this and that we are not going to take anything for granted ever. But I got to tell you Kate, I'm actually really excited about the early vote numbers that we are seeing.

So far, Kate, 8 million Latinos have showed up to the polls early. You know what the number was in 2016 at this point in time before the election? 3.5. And so this is a number that focuses on the enthusiasm, on the excitement of Latino voters coming out of this election, because these past 4 years, Kate, has been absolute hell for the Hispanic community.

And there are so many issues that literally focus on the lives and livelihood of Latinos and that is where everybody is coming out for right now.

BOLDUAN: And, Pew Research says that Latino voters are 32 million voters strong, Latino voter's eligible Latino voters. They are the largest non white voting bloc for the first time this cycle. And it is not just the numbers it is also where they are.

They are in states that you and I have talked about often Florida, Texas and Arizona. But I think it is also worth pointing out, they are a large enough slice of the electorate in places like Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania that they can make a difference in a lot of battleground states. Do Latinos feel that power this election?

CARDONA: Well, I hope that they do, Kate. Clearly, for the last 4 years, that is what has been demonstrative for so many nonprofit organizations. And Latino voter advocates to say look these are my people, right?

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CARDONA: Focusing on the fact that we have so much power, but if we do not come out and show that power in the polls, we're leaving all of that power on the table. What I am seeing though Kate is that you know who is propelling this enthusiasm and this focus especially in the early vote are young people.

60 percent of the Hispanic population is millennials. The other thing we need to take into consideration is if you look at the polls and again, they look great. You mentioned some of them right before this piece that young voters first-time voters which are a lot of them right now, in terms of the Latino community, they do not really get registered.

Meaning, they don't really get noticed in polls because as you know, if you are a likely voter, those are the ones that pollsters really look at. First-time voters are not considered likely voters. Because you will have had to vote in past elections in order to be considered a likely voter.

The other point I would say Kate, is that COVID-19 as you know has ravaged black and brown communities disproportionately. That is a huge focus of young Latinos, older Latinos, because we have felt it in our communities.

We all know people, even sometimes in our own families, where we have lost loved ones, lost dear friends to COVID-19. So, when you see the President of the United States, who makes fun of the pandemic, who has never understood how to really deal with it in a way that puts the lives, and the livelihoods of Americans first and foremost?

This is a group of voters who are saying, who is this guy? This is not somebody that we want to be President of the United States. You also have a big pole is going to come out tomorrow the - poll Kate that shows that up to 78 percent of Latinos think that either Trump is hostile to Latinos, or that he does not care about Latinos.

So, all of these numbers to me point to the fact that we will have record turnout that record turnout is going to be a big majority for Joe Biden. But up until the last poll closes, Joe Biden, and all of the allies that are focused on getting the Latino vote out are going to be doing exactly that because we can't take anything for granted.

BOLDUAN: It's great to see you Maria, thank you.

CARDONA: Thank you Kate.

BOLDUAN: Dr. Anthony Fauci, once again a target of Donald Trump's supporters, at one of Trump's final rallies. But, it is the president's response to them that is raising concerns. Also, a new warning from a Former FDA Commissioner about what Americans should expect next from the Coronavirus pandemic?

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BOLDUAN: Welcome back to our special live coverage of the countdown to Election Day in America. There is now a new and troubling warning coming from a Former FDA official December could be America's toughest months in the fight against the Coronavirus.

Here is where the nation stands at this hour. According to Johns Hopkins University, the country now has more than 9.2 million cases. And as we head into November, it is very clear looking back, that October was a very rough month. At least 31 states reported at least one record high day of new infections this far into the pandemic, still breaking records in so many states.

And then, this happened just a short time ago the president, at a rally in Florida, hinting that he is going or could fire Dr. Anthony Fauci if he would get a 2nd term. The president was complaining about how focused people are on the pandemic when he was talking to his supporters? Listen to what happened next.

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TRUMP: Don't tell anybody, but let me wait till a little bit after the election.

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BOLDUAN: Joining me right now CNN Medical Analyst Dr. Esther Choo she is a Professor of Emergency Medicine at Oregon Health & Science University. Thank you for coming in. That happened at his last rally of the night. The president is hinting there that he could fire Dr. Anthony Fauci or try to, should you get a 2nd term. I just wanted to get your reaction to that, Dr. Choo.

DR. ESTHER CHOO, PROFESSOR, EMERGENCY MEDICINE, OREGON HEALTH & SCIENCE UNIVERSITY: I mean Fauci has been the one consistent and strong presence and voice of science in public health in the White House and on the Coronavirus Task Force. Trump is basically saying over there, we are willing to let go of the science and scientifically based approaches to this pandemic.

I think it is just a statement that he is really letting go and giving up on really fighting this pandemic in any way that makes sense.

BOLDUAN: And, you can almost see a direct ripple effect from how you very eloquently put it, to people who are in the crowds at these large rallies. At first, when you would say midway, when they were picking back up with rallies, Dr. Choo, they would at least have put - have people with masks be behind the president when speaking. Now, if you look at that rally in Florida, it was a largely mask-less crowd. When you see that now - go ahead sorry.

DR. CHOO: No, I agree. I notice that it has been so striking and really just over the course of a week or maybe even a few more days from that. But at first they tried to at least put the pretense of the wall of mask wearers behind him acknowledging that it might be too shameful to not have that, even though when you scan over the rest of the crowd, it's clear that many of them were not masked.

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DR. CHOO: Now, that wall is gone and it is like they are realizing that this plays better, demonstrating otter disregard for any safety measures is apparently what is really invigorating the crowds. It is really shameful to see.

BOLDUAN: You know the president's top advisor now on Coronavirus on COVID, Dr. Scott Atlas; he is now apologizing for doing an interview with RT which is a Russian news agency that the U.S. government has labeled a registered foreign agent.

Beyond that very clear oversight, what Atlas said in the interview also deserves attention. At one point and I will read for you Dr. Choo, he says the public health leadership have failed egregiously and they are killing people with their fear inducing shutdown policies. And he calls in the interview lockdowns an epic failure of public policy. That goes so directly against what we have heard from so many others, it is striking to me.

DR. CHOO: I am not sure why this person has that kind of voice and platform that he does. This is a nerve radiologist, somebody who does not touch patients. Someone who seems very susceptible to believing conspiracy theories, and we are science found somewhere on the internet.

There is not a lot of rationale to what he is saying. There is just no way to take his seriously, against someone like Fauci, who is a career public servant and internal medicine doctor and an immunologist, and actually one of the foremost published scholars in the world, really just an unparalleled person.

And we are saying, we should listen to this other random person, Scott Atlas just does not - you know he doesn't factor in here in this conversation. He has been given a weird amount of voice in his platform. It is not helpful.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and he still has the president's ear. Especially alarming when you hear that Dr. Anthony Fauci says in an interview that the last time he spoke directly with President Trump, was in the beginning of October which I thought that was just terrible, yes, exactly. Dr. Choo, thank you for coming on. I really appreciated.

DR. CHOO: Thank you Kate!

BOLDUAN: Thank you. Our special live coverage of the countdown to Election Day in America continues. We're going to tell you what CNN has learned about President Trump's possible plans, for election night even before millions of votes have been counted? That is after a quick break.

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