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CNN Live Event/Special
The 2020 Presidential Election in America; President Trump Falsely Claims Victory Despite Several States Still to be Called; No Winner Has Been Determined in Presidential Election; Trump Falsely Claim Victory Despite Several States Still to be Called; President Trump Going to Supreme Court to Stop Counting; Nail-Bitter Election Comes Down To AZ, GA, PA, MI, WI. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired November 04, 2020 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[03:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, it's 3:00 a.m. here on the East Coast, but we are just getting warmed up. We do not know the winner of the 2020 presidential election, and that is not a surprise. Not to me, Chris Cuomo, not with my brother Don Lemon, and not to any of the team or any of the people who have been watching with what reasonable expectations are for tonight.
So, welcome back to CNN's continuing coverage of "Election Night in America." Votes are still being counted in key states, and that was always going to be the case. And yet President Trump is falsely claiming victory.
Let's move past the noise, focus on poise and the facts. We have key race alerts for you, OK? Let's start with Pennsylvania. You see there right now, those 20 electoral votes still up for grabs. But the president was right. He has a big lead, 670,000 votes, 55.6 to 43.
But how many votes are outstanding? Wait for us, and we'll take you through it. But first, the headlines. Michigan, 16 electoral votes. Again, the president is ahead 288,000 votes, 52.7 to 45.5, 70 percent of the estimated votes. But that can be misleading. What are we waiting on and when will it come in? Those are our two big questions. We'll answer them for all these states.
Next, North Carolina -- sorry, Wisconsin, 10 electoral votes, the president there is 116,000 votes ahead, 51.1 to 47.1, 81 percent of the estimated vote there. Again, the question will be, well, are these early votes, day of votes, what about the absentee ballots? Those are all ballot questions. We'll take you through it.
Next state, Georgia, 16 electoral votes, the president there is 117,000 votes ahead, 50.6 to 48.1, 91 percent of the estimated vote there. What is the trick on this state? You have to look at the areas that haven't come in yet because some of them are the most populous. We'll take you through it. Next, North Carolina, 15 electoral votes, 76,000 votes ahead, 50.1 to 48.6. That is a tight race, 95 percent of the vote. The president is in good position there. We'll show you why in just a second.
Next, Arizona, 11 electoral votes, 51.8 to 46.8, Joe Biden up 130,000 votes. As you've heard all night from John King, this was the big flip. Eight-two percent of the estimated vote is in. So why hasn't it been called? Good question. And it hasn't been called for good reason. It has to do with counting all the votes.
The president and his campaign arguing in Arizona it shouldn't have been called until all the votes are counted, but then said, none of the counting should continue anywhere else.
Last state, Nevada, Joe Biden 26,000 to the positive, 50.3 to 47.8. What's going on there? Again, 79 percent of the estimated vote. Again, the key on all of these, as we go over to Phil Mattingly at the magic wall, we're going to take you through each of those.
But let's look at the wall here, all right? Two-twenty to 213. That's where it stands right now, and we're still early, OK? Why? Let's start discussing why.
Phil Mattingly is at the magic wall. Let's start from west to east about what we're watching and let's just start with the macro point. Have we just stopped? Did things magically stop at any point or what is going on with the process?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Votes are being counted. Votes are being counted. It's entirely normal. It happens every four years, it happens every two years, it happens with every election. They count until they are done counting.
As we move west to east, you are going to see several states with outstanding votes and they're in the process of doing the counting. Some states, particularly as we move east, lot slower than others.
Let's start out west. Let's start where you finished off. That is state of Nevada. This is a crucial state for Democrats to hold on to. Right now, Joe Biden with 26,940 vote lead.
Here's all Democrats are really focused on any time. You're talking about the state of Nevada. That is Clark County. This is their firewall. They want to keep this margin above 10 points. That's when they start to feel a little bit more comfortable. Right now, it is above 10 points. There are 75 percent reporting right now.
So there still some vote to come in, still some vote to come in, but this is the home of Las Vegas, the largest county in the state. Seventy-two percent of the population comes from right here. Again, it's a firewall. They want to keep this above 10, somewhere between 10 and 11.
[03:05:00]
MATTINGLY: Right now, Joe Biden is doing that. So Democrats are starting to feel more comfortable. However, still about 21 percent outstanding. You see a lot of the red here. This is the rural counties coming in, has come in strongly Trump. But this, I think, is also a big deal for Democrats.
Washoe County, kind of the swing county in the state, second largest county in the state, 15, 16 percent of the population, Joe Biden with the lead. Let us go back to 2016. Take a look at Washoe Country, narrow win, narrow win in the country for Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden doing better. That is giving Democrats some optimism with the state as the vote continues to come in. So that's Nevada.
I want to keep going and moving down into Arizona. This is probably the biggest state right now that's furthest along because this is the lone potential flip that's still on the map right now for Joe Biden.
The state of Arizona back in 2016, Donald Trump won this state by about three and a half points. Everybody going into this year was focused on one county, 2020, the presidential, right here, right here, Maricopa County. Sixty percent of the population lives in this county. This is the county where you make or break the state of Arizona. Look at this margin right now. Joe Biden with 53 percent to 45 percent lead, 81 percent reporting.
Flip back to 2016, where was this county sitting? Donald Trump won this county. This is a county, Phoenix, suburbs, demographic shifts over the course of the last several cycles. Democrats thought this was moving into their direction. It did in the 2018 Senate race. Right now, it has. We'll see how it holds as the rest of the night pans out.
Republicans, as you noted, have been urging, wait, don't call the state of Arizona. Count all the votes. Contrary to what we're telling you about the East Coast. So we'll have to see how this comes in right now. But Democrats feel good, not comfortable. It's not done yet. We haven't called it yet.
But because of Maricopa, because of their strong hold down here in Pima County, obviously big margin here, flip back to 2016, better margin to Hillary Clinton in Pima County, Democrats thought the Arizona can flip, they're putting up the margins right now to do it, we have to see --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: But also as a reminder, in 2016, president or then candidate Trump won Arizona, but he didn't win it on election night.
MATTINGLY: Right.
CUOMO: It took days to count because that happens almost every time, which is why we've been saying from the beginning, you almost never know the winner on election night. Let's keep going.
MATTINGLY: One final point to make on that. If you flash back to Arizona in 2018, the Senate race took several days, if not weeks, to finally count. Now, Arizona changed how they did mail-in ballots this time around. That's why they moved a lot quicker. But they used in 2018 a process somewhat similar to what is being used out east. It took a lot longer to count. Again, it's normal. It's part of the process. Nobody is counting new votes. These are votes that came in throughout the course of the day.
I want to flip over to Georgia real quick. We've all been paying close attention to Georgia throughout the course of the night. It looked like it was heading firmly to Donald Trump's way. Right now, Donald Trump with 91 percent reporting has 117,000-plus lead. So why is this not being called yet? Why is this not in the red column firmly?
Take a look right here, right in here. I'll start walking through biggest democratic counties, largest counties in the state, democratic strongholds, Fulton County in particular, largest county in the state, almost 10 percent of the state's population. You look at that margin. You say vote coming in here is almost 3/4 democratic. That is only 72 percent reporting.
That is why people are waiting. Keep moving around. DeKalb County, fourth largest county in the state, about seven percent of the population, only eight percent reporting.
CUOMO: Eighty percent.
MATTINGLY: Eighty percent reporting. The Democrats knew going into Georgia, they've obviously been talking about it all cycle, was this the moment that Georgia would finally flip? If Georgia is going to flip, it had to come from right here, and right here is where the majority of the outstanding vote sits right now.
So until we get those results, it's difficult to say which way Georgia is going. President Trump said in his remarks that he thought he had won Georgia. Georgia has not been called. The reason Georgia has not been called is because democratic strongholds with a tremendous amount of democratic vote are still outstanding at this point in the night.
Keep moving on. Got to look at North Carolina, you talked about North Carolina, 95 percent reporting. Donald Trump with a 76,000 vote lead as it currently stands. That's narrowed a little bit over the course of the night. We're still waiting to see how this comes in. Republicans have started to feel fairly comfortable about North Carolina, particularly in the Senate race, as well. We'll see how this comes in over the course of the next couple of hours or so.
Let's check in on a couple of counties. This was a democratic stronghold, Wake County, obviously Raleigh, Durham area, Research Triangle, 94 percent reporting. There will be more democratic vote here. There will be more democratic vote here. Check out the margin. Doing better than Hillary Clinton did back in 2016 when she lost the state of North Carolina. That's not a ton of vote left.
Still stuff to wait and see as more votes comes in in North Carolina. Not a ton of outstanding vote. Where there is a ton of outstanding vote, well, right here, right here, Pennsylvania and the Midwest. This was the blue wall. This is where Donald Trump flipped back in 2016. This is what led him to the presidency. If you look at all three right now, they are red, they are red. In the state of Pennsylvania, Donald Trump has a 673,000 vote lead. However, look at this, 74 percent reporting. There is a lot of vote outstanding right now. Let's just top lined it. John mentioned this in the last hour.
[03:10:00]
MATTINGLY: Right now, we're told it's about 1.4 million outstanding mail-in ballots. Now, look, 673,000 votes is a heavy, heavy margin to overcome. He would basically -- Joe Biden would have to basically break about 75 percent or so in that 1.4 million outstanding votes.
However, the mail composition, vote by mail composition, if you look at the polling going into this night, if you look at exits going into this night, has broken very heavily democratic. It doesn't mean it's an easy task, but it means, right now, we still have to wait and see what comes in.
Where does that 1.4 come from? Well, various different places, but obviously Philadelphia County, largest county in the state, obviously urban population pushing out into the suburbs, only 48 percent reporting right now. Look at that margin. You want to look at this top line right here, 289,000 votes for Joe Biden. That's pretty good. Hillary Clinton had 584,000.
So if you want the sense of either there is a massive turnout drop off in the city of Philadelphia pushing outward or there is a ton of vote outstanding. Guess what? The answer right now, there is a ton of vote outstanding and it moves in to these counties, as well.
These are democratic strongholds that for the most part have definitely moved heavily democratic over the course of the last cycle or two. Montgomery County, only 70 percent reporting. Joe Biden with a good margin there.
Move over here in Chester County. This is traditionally a democratic county. What happened back in 2016? Hillary Clinton won this county by nearly 10 points. Right now, Donald Trump with an edge, 70 percent reporting. However, remember, the composition of the mail-in ballots leans heavily democratic.
Does that mean this county is going to flip? We don't know that yet but we know there's a ton of outstanding vote. We know that vote leans heavily democratic. We know traditionally this is a democratic county.
So, Chris, to your earlier point, we know there are a lot of unanswered questions right now, we know what we don't know, but what we do know is that there are almost a million and a half outstanding mail-in ballots here. Those have skewed heavily democratic. We don't know where this number is going to end up, where this number is going to end up, until this number turns into 100 percent in the state of Pennsylvania.
CUOMO: Wisconsin and Michigan, we've been watching them. Right now, we're both showing them as red. The president's supposition was that they just stopped counting there, as well. Michigan is known to have a slow count. Wisconsin, frankly, was rumoured to have a quick count this year.
MATTINGLY: Right.
CUOMO: It hasn't happened so far. What's the state of play? Let's start in Wisconsin -- let's start in Michigan.
MATTINGLY: We will start in Michigan. You talked about Michigan sometimes to being a slower count, being known for that in particular right here, Wayne County, home of Detroit, and pushing outward. Again, you kind of talked about the same thing with Philadelphia County, 43 percent reporting. Joe Biden is with a high margin right now, 18 percent. Democrats, I think, would want that to be higher.
In 2016, Hillary Clinton did better there. But again, look at the top line number for Hillary Clinton. This was in a turnout fall off for Democrats. Barack Obama back in 2012, 576,000 votes, Hillary Clinton only 519,000. Where is Joe Biden right now? At 240,000.
Again, there is outstanding vote that will change the composition of this margin, will change this top line, and will add a lot of vote here. Move up here into Oakland County, kind of the suburbs of Detroit, flipped pretty heavily democratic over the course of the last couple cycles. Hillary Clinton back in 2016 won this by eight points. Where is Joe Biden tonight? Doing better, winning by 12, 85 percent reporting. That means there's more vote to come in here.
Flip over here to Macomb County. This is one of the shockers of 2016 when Donald Trump flipped Macomb County from President Obama back in 2012. Again, look down here, 58 percent reporting. Maybe, maybe the outstanding vote is heavily republican. Maybe it's heavily Donald Trump. Maybe this margin holds.
However, they need to count the votes. That's what they're waiting for right now in the state of Michigan. It's a similar story as what you saw in the state of Pennsylvania. It's a similar story in Michigan. We can move over to Wisconsin, as well, and take a look.
CUOMO: Wisconsin, we just got some information that would be helpful. By the way, after Phil and I go through the magic wall here and looking at the individual states, well, Kristen Holmes takes us through what we are waiting on in each state, the early vote, the absentees, what the timing is. That's the essential unknown right now.
But we just got news on Wisconsin, that they believe that at about 4:00 Eastern this morning, so, whatever that means, like an hour, not even, they're going to have a lot more information about Wisconsin. That will be really important. What's the state of play?
MATTINGLY: We can talk about where we've been told that information is coming from. And not unlike Wayne County in Michigan, not unlike Philadelphia County in Pennsylvania, let's pull up Milwaukee County, obviously democratic stronghold. Hillary Clinton back in 2016 won this county by 37 and half votes. Where is Joe Biden today? Smaller margin but there's a lot more to come in. What is top line right now? 146,000 votes. Hillary Clinton back in 2016, 288,000. And this was a drop off for Democrats, as well, from 2012. I think Democrats thought they would do much better in Milwaukee County. The bottom line here is there's a lot more vote to come in here.
CUOMO: When you say come in, again, just to clarify the president's context, it's not that they're going to look for votes they may not have seen before, votes they know were put in already and it's just counting.
[03:15:01]
MATTINGLY: Yeah. Let me clarify that. That's actually a really good point.
CUOMO: You're saying --
MATTINGLY: I'm waiting --
CUOMO: -- disrupted by the president.
MATTINGLY: What we're waiting for is for votes to be counted --
CUOMO: Right.
MATTINGLY: -- not for votes to come in. Votes are in. The votes have come in. We are waiting for election officials to count the votes as they do every single election. Also want to point out here, we've been told -- Brown County, home of Green Bay, only 66 percent reporting right now. This is kind of more republican county. Flip back to 2016, Donald Trump won this by 10 points. Presumably Donald Trump would want them to keep counting.
CUOMO: Mm-hmm.
MATTINGLY: A county that Donald Trump won by 10 points. Margin a little bit higher right now for the Trump campaign. Right now, 66 percent reporting.
So again, I think the bottom line is, particularly when you talk about a coronavirus election, an election of pandemic, particularly when vote by mail surged to a level nobody had ever seen before, nobody imagined was even possible and you recognize the composition of those ballots, when you look at the top line, if Donald Trump being 118,000 votes ahead here or 650,000 votes ahead in Pennsylvania, and you recognized what's still outstanding, it doesn't tell us who is going to win or who is going to lose.
What it tells us is we don't know the answer yet until we count the votes.
CUOMO: The god forbid is that you give a state to somebody and they didn't earn it.
MATTINGLY: Right. CUOMO: And then you have to reverse it and people have misgivings and rightly so. Again, the example this year is Arizona. The president's campaign is rightly upset that the state was called before all the votes were counted there. And they make a good argument, which is why we have it.
Another organization projected Arizona. Trump's campaign got very upset. We haven't done it, not because they were upset, but because it would be the wrong thing to do because not everything has been counted. That's the principle. And it would be uniform across the country and that's the way we'll do it because it's the right way to have it done.
Now, the X factor that Phil keeps referring to in all these different states, it gets confusing this year. Why? It is because we have an abundance of turnout. We have congratulations necessary in this country in a way that we've never seen it before.
In the middle of a pandemic, when, let's be honest, there's not a lot of reason for optimism, not a lot of people making you feel good about yourselves in this country in a way that was going to send you out into a virus to vote, and yet you did. In numbers we've never seen before.
So what does that mean? Not only is it about everybody who came out today, but who voted early, who voted by mail. It's complicated this year.
So, Kristen Holmes, you've been sorting this through for us. What are the high points? I mentioned Wisconsin. They say they're getting their hands around the different amounts they need to count. Give us some context to what we're dealing with this year and where.
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So, I want to start in Pennsylvania because -- I want to start in Pennsylvania because I think that that is the most important place to go. Yes, Donald Trump is right. He is winning by a huge margin there because that is not the entire story.
Take a look at this. Only 39 percent of mail-in votes have been counted. That leaves about 1.5 votes left to be cast. This is a state that had 2.5 million mail-in ballots sent in and the state was not allowed to process any of those ballots until 7:00 a.m. today. We knew that we were not going to have any results in Pennsylvania because of this process.
Take a look at the map. As Phil said, can we say that everyone who is a Democrat who requested a mail-in ballot is going to vote democratic? No. But we do know about 70 percent of this huge number of mail-in ballots went to registered Democrats. And the places where we're still waiting on so many results are traditionally more democratic strongholds, one, of course, being Philadelphia.
Now, I want to go through those numbers for you here. The last time we have heard on where they are in the count, they had only had 76,000 out of 350,000 mail-in ballots counted. They say there has been an update but they're not going to actually give us that number until 9:00 a.m. We do know they are nowhere near the 350,000 mail-in ballots counted because they're still at only 48 percent.
The other part to look at is Bucks County here. This is traditionally a democratic area. They have only counted 20,000 of 155,000 mail-in ballots. So, again, huge margins here. The other one is Allegheny County. That is the Pittsburgh area. They are working through the night. We know right now they had 348,000 mail-in ballots that came in. They've only scanned about 125,000.
So, again, very big margins, a democratic stronghold. Does that mean that Joe Biden will win every single vote? No. But it does mean that this race is a lot closer than it appears right now on paper.
The other one to look at is Montgomery County over here. Now, where they are in their ballots, I want to take a look at this because I want to make sure I get the numbers right, they had received 239,000 mail-in ballots and they've counted about 103,000 here. So, these are all traditionally democratic areas.
[03:19:59]
HOLMES: We know that there are outstanding mail-in ballots. And that is why Pennsylvania is just too close to call. And, Chris, on top of all of this that we see here, there are nine counties in the state that decided that they were not even going to start counting absentee ballots until tomorrow.
Now, many of those counties are republican counties. But again, we know that the breakdown was 70 percent to 20 percent in people who are requesting those mail-in ballots. So at least some of those votes will go to Joe Biden. Again, a much closer race here.
I want to take a look at Michigan because there are three big areas that we're looking at here. These are basically the different counties. Two of them being ones that Trump flipped. But we know there are a lot of votes outstanding. One of them, of course, is Detroit. Now, when it comes to Detroit, there are at least 92,000 mail-in ballots that we still don't have.
So when are we going to get an answer on that? They're telling us probably early in the morning. That is what we know about Detroit coming in. Of course, democratic stronghold. Macomb County, 250,000 mail-in ballots still unaccounted for. We're not going to have any information on that until 7:00 a.m. So, keep that in mind. Again, going to be a long night. We need to count every single ballot here.
The other one is Kent County. That is the county right over here that went to Donald Trump. It was flipped to Donald Trump in 2016. They still have about half of their mail-in ballots that haven't been counted.
Some of these counties are working through the night. We know that Detroit is. We know that Macomb County is. Some of them are starting again in the morning. This is a long process. We are counting every single ballot. Now, Wisconsin, you talked about that. This is really where we're focused on Wisconsin right here. This is Milwaukee. There are about, what, let me see here on my notes, 169,000 votes that are unaccounted for mail-in ballot. We aren't going to get answers there until 4:00 or 5:00 in the morning which I guess is like basically right now. So, we'll get answers there soon.
And this is what Democrats are watching very closely. They needed a big turnout in Milwaukee. We just don't have those numbers right here. The other one is Brown County here. They're still counting through there. They only have 66 percent of their vote in. And that is a swing county.
So some of them are breaking down what percentage was mail-in or absentee, what was in-person. But others are coming out at the same time. That makes it very confusing particularly in Wisconsin. This is a state where some of the counties do it one way and some of the counties do it another way.
So, keeping in mind we're looking at Milwaukee, that one we know will come out with all of its ballots, all of its totals around 4:00 to 6:00 in the morning.
Last one, talking about Georgia, now, this is really fascinating. Again, all of the counties that we're looking at here, democratic strongholds, Phil mentioned this, all around the Atlanta area. Here's where it gets really bizarre. Fulton County, most populous county, it is Atlanta, they just stopped counting at 10:30 p.m. They stopped counting their absentee ballots. They said they'd pick it up in the morning. We believe there is a minimum of 48,000 ballots there.
These are all areas -- these are all outstanding areas here around the Atlanta area that had democratic strongholds. They're democratic strongholds and they are missing a huge chunk of their absentee mail- in ballots. DeKalb County, it is 80 percent in, but we know that they've only counted 79,000 of 168,000 mail-in ballots.
So this is why we haven't called the election yet, Chris, because there are so many ballots. This is a very different-looking election. It was not show up, vote in person, have a couple of provisional ballots, a big section of mail-in ballots here or there.
This was an entirely different structure for most of the country. And that's why it's taking a longer time. And we know that these election officials who belong to both parties are doing everything they can in their power to count every single ballot and make sure that this is a legitimate election and they are right when they make those calls.
CUOMO: All right. Listen, you've got a tough job because you are controlling the understanding of the X factor tonight. And it is new and it is a little bit of a blessing because we have more votes that came in in different ways because of people's sense of activism this cycle. So, it's a good problem to have, but it is a problem nonetheless.
Thank you, Kristen, for taking us through it. And you're right, at the top of the hour, it's 24 minutes past 3:00 in the morning on the East Coast here. At 4:00 a.m., we believe we will have information from Wisconsin. Wisconsin is going to be a challenge for Biden. That means it's an opportunity for Trump and it leaves both of them in the same position. Here is where we are in this election right now. Here's what we know for sure, OK?
[03:25:00]
CUOMO: This nation is divided, and we have to start focusing on what we agree on in this country. And I'm not being Pollyannaish. This is not pie in the sky. This is about existence. This is about survival. We all want the vote to be counted. God forbid, we don't count them all the right way, and Biden gets a state he doesn't deserve or Trump gets a state he doesn't deserve, and we have to change an outcome.
We all have to agree that the votes that have come in by today need to be counted. If states have different rules and a lot of them do -- by the way, over a dozen states have rules for allowing ballots to come in after Election Day for purposes, including, by the way, military ballots.
We don't want to disenfranchise our men and women who are fighting overseas, right? That's a federal law that allows them to come in up to seven days after Election Day. They all have to be counted. This all takes time.
I get the frustration. I get why the president would be nervous. I get why Biden would be nervous. That's their problem. Our problem is getting it right. And we will track it all through the night. The next big update is in 35 minutes. Right now, my partner in this practice of accuracy, Don Lemon.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: And I think we have to get it right. I think we --people are at home and they're watching and they're not as -- they don't follow it as much as we do, and they just want to know and get it accurate.
Chris, stand by. Is Kristen there? I want to ask her a question. Kristen, I think it's really important. Here's what people are asking me. They are saying, unaccounted for or not counted, because those are two different things. Unaccounted for, in their minds, would be just for people who are watching at home, means where are the ballots, no one knows, or just these ballots are not counted.
HOLMES: They just haven't been counted, Don. I mean, all of these ballots that we've heard are accounted for. It's just a lengthy process. Again, remember this about Pennsylvania. This is an envelope, inside of an envelope, signatures have to be matched. They can't do any of this, any of this counting, any of this processing until 7:00 a.m. on Election Day, and then they have to put on another entire Election Day election.
So, this is a lot to balance, especially for some of these smaller counties. So when we say that they're not counted, they are there. We have heard very little reports of any sort of -- any kind of missing ballots, anything like that. It is just that it's taking time. And we expected that. And we expect that in Michigan and in Wisconsin because it's just a different process this year.
LEMON: Yeah. Great. Thank you for clarifying that because I am getting people asking me, is she saying unaccounted for or not counted? So thank you for clarifying that. Kristen, we will get back to you. Kristen has probably the most important job explaining to you and to everyone at home and to us here, as well, as to what is going on, what to look for, what is not counted at this point.
So let's bring in some folks who can talk about that, as well. John Harwood is here, Jennifer Granholm, and also Alice Stewart. Good morning to all of you. Here we are. I don't think we would have thought, anybody would have thought, at 3:27 in the morning, we would be in a position that we are now.
We did tell the viewers. We have been telling people. Things are so different this time around because of the pandemic, because of some new rules in certain places that we may not know. But, man, at almost 3:30 in the morning to be in this position.
John, I want to go to you first because if you listen to Kristen and she said, these ballots are not counted, and as Chris said, you've got to count all of them, there are so many different rules this time.
For the president to come out and say, well, you know what, stop the counting. Stop the counting in certain places, except for the places where he wants the counting to continue to go on. What did you make of that when he spoke from the east room tonight?
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: It was outrageous. It was a lie when he said, we have won the election. He obviously has not won the election. And it's the kind of behavior you expect from an authoritarian leader in a nondemocratic country.
So, I think it's clear that what he said was out of bounds. In fact, you can see that it was clear because Vice President Pence said something totally different when he went to the microphone. He said, you know, we're on a path. He said we're going to let the votes be counted and be vigilant and watchful, that sort of thing.
That's perfectly appropriate. That's what Joe Biden said earlier in the evening. And you can tell by the fact that Mike Pence felt compelled to say it that he was separating himself what President Trump -- from what President Trump did. But what President Trump did is important because he's the president.
I think what we know now, as you were discussing with both Phil and with Kristen, is that we have not gotten the sort of decisive early results that would have put to rest some of the fears people had about unrest and protracted litigation.
[03:30:00]
JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We do not know the winner of the election. And we do not know whether or not we will have a clear result. We could still have a clear result. Joe Biden, if he holds Arizona, if he wins Georgia, which is still a possibility. If he ends up winning those blue wall states, he could have a comfortable electoral victory.
Donald Trump could also win. But those are the things that the uncertainty over that is a little bit reminiscent of 2018 when we had a protracted count, where Democrats ended up doing better at the end than it looked at the beginning. But we don't know if that's where we're headed.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: We want all of it to stop, we want all of them to stop, all voting to stop. Alice Stewart, listen, considering the number that's up and by the margin that the president is ahead in a number of states, these battleground states, he could very well win by just allowing them to count.
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Exactly, Don. And, look, both President Trump and Vice President Biden do have a viable pathway to 270. So there is no need to muddy the waters. Let the process play out. I think every American can take great pride in the fact we had record numbers of people coming out to vote, for whatever reason. Whether it was referendum on this president or whether it was the candidate of your choice because there is such a stark contrast.
And with that, it goes to show how phenomenal and how great our democracy is. But following that with questioning the integrity of our election is very problematic. Look, we had millions and millions of people come out to vote and let their voice be heard. And I think it's really important. Part of that is to let the votes be counted.
I served as Deputy Secretary of State in Arkansas. I know how this process works. County elections officials across the country are counting every vote and making sure that it is done accurately and fairly and in due time. And the winner is announced when all the votes are counted and this president is a powerful person, but he does not have the power to tell secretaries of state to stop counting.
And I do have concerns about him already talking about the Supreme Court. That's a little bit premature. We don't see any activity of fraudulent behavior here. So I think it's important to -- let's have trust and faith and confidence in the state election officials. Let them count the ballots. And as we have heard, there are many reasons why it is taking this long. It can be because of absentee, early voting, military, overseas votes, and there's all very time consuming. It's important for us to be patient.
Look, we all want our person to win. We all voted for the person we think is the best. They both have the opportunity to do so. But it's important to take time, use patience and get this right. Not just right now, but get it right. And we can -- either candidate can get a home run here, but you can do it with the base on ball, you can hit it go yard. But this takes a lot more time and we have to be cautious and do it with accuracy and not with expediency.
LEMON: Jennifer Granholm, you know a little bit about Michigan, one of the battleground states still up on the board. Last check, 72 percent of the vote is in. About a difference there, Trump is winning about 200,000, a little bit, well, close to 300,000. Take us through the process in Michigan and where we are in that process right now. Is there still a chance in your belief, having won elections there, is it your belief that the president still has a chance? Or is it Joe Biden's to lose?
JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Absolutely. I think that Joe Biden -- I mean, if I had to guess right now -- and I'm not putting on my partisan hat and saying that I just -- I believe that Joe Biden will win Michigan when all the votes are counted. And this is why, it's because, number one, in Detroit the Detroit clerk had said that Detroit's turnout was a record turnout, which means that it was significantly above 2016.
2016, Hillary Clinton lost by 10,704 votes, a very tiny amount. If Detroit alone, we're not even talking about Macomb County or Kent County. That alone is a big number, that 90,000. And that is overwhelmingly Democratic. This is not a surprise. None of this is a surprise. Even what the president said tonight, it's just not a surprise.
Democrats encouraged their voters to get people to vote by mail. We know that in Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, the mail-in votes were going to be counted last. So, those who voted first, their votes are counted last unfortunately and Donald Trump has been making this noise about these mail-in votes for months.
[03:35:00]
So, this is -- none of this is a surprise. But the good news is that Donald Trump doesn't get to call this. It's not his call. It is the call of the election officials --
LEMON: You weren't surprised when he came out tonight and said what he said? He said, listen, what happened to the election that they couldn't win, he believed? It's a fraud on the American public. It's an embarrassment to our country. You weren't surprised by the president of the United States coming out and casting doubt on the electoral process in this country?
GRANHOLM: Were you really surprised, Don? I mean, after all that he's been tweeting all of these months, he's been leading up to this for months to say this exact thing. Forget about it. He doesn't get to say. Now, I know he appointed a Supreme Court justice and ultimately this might end up in the Supreme Court.
But, you know what? The Supreme Court also has to consider their legitimacy. Those justices may end up -- certainly there are partisans on the court. But if it is clear through this process that these votes have been counted and counted in the right way and that everybody is doing the right thing, they can't just toss them out.
This is an election. And if we can agree on anything, it is that the process matters, and in this, in Michigan I can tell you that, you know, the Secretary of State and the thousands of people who are -- who have not just cast a ballot, but who are working in these polls to make sure that it's done accurately, they are ensuring the proper count.
They are not -- I mean, you know, this is all done aboveboard and with witnesses. That every vote has a, you know, a tracking device so you know who it came from and who it belongs to. The votes had been tossed out, that where you didn't have a signature match. So, the what's that are left are people who voted and they voted before the deadline. So their votes count in America. And if we can agree on anything as Democrats and Republicans, it's that this process is sacrosanct.
LEMON: Well, thank you, guys. Stand by because we will get back to --
GRANHOLM: And can I just say one other thing on that, Don?
LEMON: Yes, absolutely, go on.
GRANHOLM: Just quickly, is that Michigan, you know, Michigan's vote by mail was larger than their in-person vote. And this is why -- you know, obviously there was a huge number in Wisconsin in 12. Pennsylvania is a little bit less.
LEMON: What does that pertain to you? You think that those votes will skew Democratic?
GRANHOLM: Oh, I know they will because that was the strategy. The strategy of the Democrats was to get people to vote by mail, the strategy of the Republicans was to get people to show up in person. Those remaining votes are skewing Democratic and this of course is why the president is saying what he's saying.
LEMON: Yes. The question is -- stand by, guys. We'll get to you. The question is, Chris, during the lockdown, right, during the quarantine, Republicans and the president's folks did not stop there on the ground efforts to get to sign up voters, new voters, door knocking, what have you.
The Democrats abiding by the rules did not do that. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays into -- how that factors into whatever the outcome of this election is. We see it playing into the early part of this clearly because at least the polling is off. Maybe that factors into it. I don't know, but we'll see over the coming days and weeks.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: I think it's a provocative question. I think that this was always going to be a battle of intensity. This is a country in search of itself. And you have two choices here that are very different definitions of the soul of America. And I think that it's not just about who did what during the lockdown.
It was always going to come down to which side wanted to make its point more vigorously. And what we found out was both sides delivered, right? Because turnout is the likes of which we've never seen, which is why the counting is a little bit more extenuated. So, we'll see.
LEMON: You know what Chris, I got to say --
CUOMO: Go ahead. LEMON: -- very pleasantly surprised earlier, I think most people
were, Democrats and Republicans, whatever. I think people were surprised the president was very moderated. You know, didn't say anything, right? And then came out and said, you know, just giving a fairly run of the mill speech, not declaring victory, but then towards the end, went off the rails a little bit. Not a little bit, a lot.
Saying we're going to get the courts involved. We're going to go to the Supreme Court and so on. I think that was shocking obviously to most people including our very own Rick Santorum who is a Trump supporters.
CUOMO: It may have been surprising to him. I'm surprised at how measured Rick Santorum is when he describes this president, and I think it really is about what people want to define themselves by. Rick Santorum has made his choice. Everybody in this country is making their choice. And I think the difficulty is if Trump wins, he's going to have to figure out how to bring people in this country, at least half of it, that is repulsed by who he is.
[03:40:02]
LEMON: How to govern a divided nation, even more divided.
CUOMO: If Biden comes in -- yes, but it's divided along the lines of him. It's not to tax or not to tax. It's not go to war or not go to war. It is him or not him. And he is going to have to see or Biden is going to have to see that the answer to this country is not in them, it's in us. And they're going to have to tap into what this country shares and it's going to have to happen fast because we're in the middle of the pandemic.
So, let's take that question to better minds, my brother. I'll be back -- right back to you. Nia-Malika Henderson, Mark Preston, Harry Enten, one of the mysteries of the night to unravel. So in Arizona we're talking about demographic shift where you have an influx of Latino people in key counties like Maricopa County that is changing red to blue. But in Florida we see the Latino or the Latin ex vote undoing Joe Biden in a big way. How do both of those things happen?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, they're different Latinos. If you look in Florida, you've got Cuban-Americans, you've got Venezuelan-Americans, you got Evangelical Puerto Ricans as well, and Dominican Republicans too. And you also have a situation in Florida where Rick Scott has been very good at courting Latino voters and doing very well with them. He speaks Spanish. So they have that history there and that showed up.
And if you think about what's going on out west it's a different population. It's Mexican-Americans. And so that is what we are seeing and we've seen this in another state like Nevada, like Colorado, like New Mexico that increased presence of Mexican-Americans in the electorate has really benefited Democrats. And you saw that happen in Arizona. We haven't called Arizona yet. I think some other people have called Arizona. But Biden certainly feels good about Arizona.
CUOMO: Right. But we haven't called it.
HENDERSON: Right.
CUOMO: Because it ain't ready to be called.
HENDERSON: Exactly.
CUOMO: And that is benefiting the president and that's why his comments about wanting to stop counting elsewhere is just not how a democracy works.
Harry, let me jump to you for a second. We just heard the Governor there, Granholm, making the case for why she thinks Michigan goes the right way for Biden whom she supports. Michigan is not the issue. Wisconsin is the issue, isn't it?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER AND ANALYST: Yes, I mean, I think if you were to sort of layout the states and what's left out there, I mean, we know that there are plenty of votes left in Milwaukee, right, Milwaukee City. But as I look at the numbers, I think that's the most uphill climb for Biden at this point. It doesn't mean he can't do it, right. But for me looking at the states with no Pennsylvania, for example, there's still a lot of vote by mail. We know Biden is winning that vote big. So we're going to really have to wait on that.
But I think the key point here is when I'm sort of doing the math, right, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, Biden in my mind probably has to win two of those four states. Can he do it? There is the vote left to do it, but it's tough. And we have to actually see him jump into lead in one of those states eventually, right?
CUOMO: Yes, otherwise it gets to 2016, doesn't it Mark, I mean, were we sat around until about what, 11:00, 11:30, saying doesn't she have to win somewhere? Doesn't she have to win -- isn't that kind of what we're doing right now?
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. And totally -- what really concerns me is what we just saw like 45 minutes ago where the president comes out and delivers the speech, where he is just so in discord and chaos. Look, most of America right now is in bed. Or you would hope that they're in bed trying to get some sleep. They're going to wake tomorrow and there's going to be a decision about what exactly happened.
But at the same time, what we're seeing right now because of this rhetoric, because of this indecision or because we don't have any kind of -- any result yet is that we've seen the stock market, we've seen the futures tumble.
But more importantly world leaders right now around the world are waking up and watching this insanity that is happening here in the United States. That is not good for a super power as the U.S. Which is always talking about building up democracy when in its own self can't hold up its own democracy. CUOMO: Well, you have two things going on at the same time. The
insanity part would be that we have someone who is saying stop it here. I like it where we are, let's get off this ride, which is why we send monitors to other countries so that an autocrat can't do that. But our system taking time and us, you know, kind of embracing the suck of the grind, that's democracy, right?
HENDERSON: It's right and listen, you want an accurate count. It might take a little longer. We've seen this in previous elections, where you don't get the full vote total maybe until a couple days after the actual election. And that's what is going on now.
Listen, it's not a surprise that the president did what he did, but it is shocking, it is appalling. It is anti-Democratic as well for him to say stop the voting, saying that he's going to SCOTUS -- essentially declaring victory tonight. He certainly primed the public for his actions tonight but it was a terrible thing for him to do.
ENTEN: There is nothing unusual about counting votes that have been cast after Election Day, right? Those votes come in and sometimes it takes some time to count those votes, right.
[03:45:00]
And it is so much more important to get that count accurate and to get it fast. And those secretaries of states, those boards of elections, those county officials, they are good public servants. We should give them the time that they need to get an accurate count.
PRESTON: Chris, just one day to keep in mind, January 20th, 2021. That's when the president gets sworn in. There's plenty of time to get there.
CUOMO: Right. You got a safe harbor period, counting takes time. We've seen it every election. All right. So, let's do this. What are the big issues here? You really have Michigan and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. We have been through them. Let's go over the magic wall.
And, Phil, the idea is we have two main questions. These two are gray marks because the votes are just starting to come in. The president's supposition is, but I'm ahead. It's kind of over. They just don't want it to end. Why is that not true?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, votes are still being counted. I think I want to top line it first.
CUOMO: But are there enough votes to be counted that the outcome can be different that it is right now?
MATTINGLY: We'll wait and see. There are. Yes, if there weren't, the race would be called. There are, the big question is the composition of those votes. And the answers that we don't necessarily have is because of the votes, a lot of them are vote by mail, we don't necessarily know, it's a different election, a different year. The vote by mail is skewed heavily towards Vice President Biden and his campaign. We don't know how that is coming in. So, let me just kind of start and layout some pathways here and
explain why Michigan and Wisconsin, Pennsylvania to some degree have become everything at this moment in time. Which to be frank we can't predict what is happening. Guess what, we're here. So, if you want to start and this (inaudible) called, just for sake of argument, you say Joe Biden is leading in Arizona. Joe Biden's leading in Nevada right now. Joe Biden is likely to win the state of Hawaii. Joe Biden likely to win the state of Maine.
I'll go ahead and go in here and take off Maine too, the single electoral vote there, because that's still up in the air. You can go ahead and give Alaska to President Trump. Where does that out him right now, go ahead and give him North Carolina. It hasn't been called, again, we're just trying to game things out to underscore pathways to the extent they exist.
Where does that lead things? 244 electoral votes for Joe Biden, 231 electoral votes for President Trump. Obviously we are focus right in here. So what are the actual pathways? If these are the states that are left. Say Donald Trump wins the state of Pennsylvania --
CUOMO: What about Georgia? You don't have it next?
MATTINGLY: We'll get there. We'll get there. Say Donald Trump wins the state of Pennsylvania, it's possible he's up by 650,000 votes right now. So, he wins the state of Wisconsin. The vote outstanding is not enough to make up for what he needs. That doesn't get him over 261 electoral votes. Then all of a sudden you're talking about state of Michigan and the state of Georgia. Again, we don't think we're going to have the results for Georgia until a couple more hours from now. Wait and see on that one. But what I'm pointing out here is really all coming down to these four states, right now. These four states right now there are --
CUOMO: What happens if Biden gets Michigan and Georgia?
MATTINGLY: Biden gets Michigan and Georgia, Biden is over 270 electoral votes. So, the pathway for Joe Biden is some combination of these four states, but keeping in mind where the vote is right now. So, I want to kind of show pathways, give people some ideas of maybe best case scenarios for Biden, best case scenarios for President Trump. And then let's go in and look at the vote. Let's actually see what's outstanding right now.
And I want to start with Wisconsin. Because we think we're going to start finding more out about Wisconsin pretty soon. Let's dig in here right now. Donald Trump 108,000 votes ahead, 83 percent reporting. We've talked about Milwaukee. We've talked about Milwaukee, Milwaukee County. Milwaukee itself pushing outward, only 48 percent reporting.
So, how are we baselining this right now? If half of the vote is in, about half the vote is in. 278,000 votes, maybe there's 275,000- 280,000 votes left roughly, roughly. How does that break? Here's the biggest unanswered question that we have right now. We know that it's going to come in big Democratic because it is a Democratic County. But the composition of mail-in. The composition of mail-in ballots which we know have been submitted, are being counted should come out soon. How heavily Democratic is it? How heavily? Is it a 60/38 split? If it's a 60/38 split --
CUOMO: What about registration of the ballots? Do we know?
MATTINGLY: We don't.
CUOMO: OK.
MATTINGLY: We might. What I have on the wall right now is what (inaudible) --
CUOMO: Also in the control room, you know, that's what Kristen Holmes is taking, she knows the composition of the registration of the requested ballots in Milwaukee County. Just give me the answer, pop it in my head, I'll pretend I knew it, make me look a little smarter. But the audience will certainly be better for the information. So, let's keep going. Let's do this. Do me a favor, that's two apples to apples 2016 to now just to see what it looked like then.
MATTINGLY: This is where you're going to see how big of a gap there is right now. So, back in 2016 Hillary Clinton 288,000. Donald Trump 126,000. Shift in about 18,000 -- 19,000 for the third parties there. So, you know, put it up to 100,000.
CUOMO: Like 400,000.
MATTINGLY: Like 400,000 -- up here we know turnout is higher. We know turnout is higher this time around. We know there's about 50 percent left here. And we know it's going to be heavily Democratic.
CUOMO: That's significant.
MATTINGLY: It's significant. There is enough outstanding vote for Joe Biden to win the state of Wisconsin. Again, the question is, it's not just Milwaukee that's outstanding right now. It's also Brown County. Now, this is in 2016, Donald Trump won this County by 10 points, almost 11 points. You look at the margins right there. Obviously there's more vote to come in here, 66 percent reporting.
[03:50:09]
CUOMO: It could be another 40,000 - 50,000 votes.
MATTINGLY: Here's the question, here's what we don't have the answer to right now. Is all of the majority of the vote that came in here that we knew was going to break Republican, was that all in-person in Election Day and already counted? And everything that's coming in via mail, would skew heavily Democratic.
And so, what I'm trying to underscore here is I'm laying out questions we don't have answers to, which help answer why these states have not been called yet, and why even though Donald Trump has 108,000 vote lead, we don't have certainty in terms of where this is going. You know, 83 percent reporting there's not a ton outstanding. I'll take this down and show you what that kind of leaves. This is the problem if you're the Biden campaign. You know, we've
talked about this many times. You know Milwaukee County is going to come in big for you. We know there is a lot of vote outstanding here. So, obviously the Biden campaign is looking at that. But look at the other counties where there's 15 percent or less outstanding vote. Red. Red. Red. Red. Red. Now, they're not necessarily huge counties. Let's dig in here. You know, this is --
CUOMO: Whatever, they're all red in disposition. Now, a fact here, frequently asked question is. So, this vote that you say is outstanding, is this inclusive of the absentee ballots.
MATTINGLY: Yes.
CUOMO: So, this is where people asked for ballots so that they are part of the mix.
MATTINGLY: This is by how our team is estimating outstanding vote --
CUOMO: Right.
MATTINGLY: -- which includes all.
CUOMO: Includes everything.
MATTINGLY: And again, I think the wild card here when you talk about the state of Wisconsin and the state of Michigan and the state of Pennsylvania is just because they're Republican counties is the 10 percent, 15 percent that's left over tracking with traditional Republican/Democrat split or is it more heavily Democratic. And I want to move over to Michigan too and talk about the same thing.
Look, again, similar type deal. We know that a huge amount of vote is outstanding in Wayne County. Democrats feel more comfortable with Michigan right now because again, look at the top line vote here. 240,000, 166,000 and more than 400,000 votes so far. Go back to 2016 where there was a massive turnout drop off. There is a huge amount of vote here outstanding and is expected to come in heavily Democratic.
You heard Governor Granholm talk about the expectations that Wayne County might set, turnout records. They are very, very short of turnout records there. So, there is vote to come in here. But, but this is another key point. Take this down, look what's outstanding right now. You see a lot of red. You see a lot of red.
Now, one of the questions -- and I'm bringing this up because I want people to understand kind of how we're thinking through this right now and how our very smart math people who are working at our decision desks are kind of going through things too, as we wait for more results to come in. Kent County, Donald Trump back in 2016, won Kent County by three points, right.
In the 2018 Governor's race this moved towards Democrats. Kent County was considered one of those counties that wasn't going to swing heavily toward Democrats but Democrats were starting to get a little of an edge in. Donald Trump has a much bigger margin in this county than he had in 2016. Does that mean with 29 percent of the vote outstanding that the vast majority of the outstanding vote is, in fact, skewing heavily Democratic because it's mail-in?
Those are the things that we're trying to figure out right now. Those are the unanswered questions. So, those are the things if you're the Biden campaign, you're looking at Kent County and you're saying, we know a lot of that outstanding vote mail-in. We know it skew Democratic mail-in. We thought we were going to do much better in Kent County. The margins look off to us and therefore we think more of the vote that's coming in will come our way.
CUOMO: But you know what Trump's campaign is thinking. Since 2018 what happened in Michigan? You got Whitmer. You also got the pandemic and the people there were up in arms about what was happening in terms of the lockdown. So maybe that's why he's doing well in Kent County.
MATTINGLY: There's no question about it. And I think again, if you want to know why people want to finish the counts, if you want to know why you should finish counting the votes, it's because you don't know, Michigan might go more heavily towards President Trump.
CUOMO: Yes. It answers the question. That's why you count the votes.
MATTINGLY: It doesn't seem like it. And again, we're going off of what we know and what outstanding, and mail-in is largely outstanding. But that's why you count the votes. So, there's Michigan. Let's go to Pennsylvania as well. Again, right now that is a very large lead for the president with 74 percent reporting. It is a heavy lift. It is a heavy lift. We know that this whole area right here is both expected to be blue and is expected to come in heavy blue.
We know last check and it might still be shifting right now, 1.4 million ballots outstanding. We know that they are supposed to by base on polling, based on exit skewed heavily towards Democrats.
However -- however, when you look at that margin -- when you look at that margin and you factor in the fact that this is heavily Democrat, Allegheny County home of Pittsburgh right now, still with about 25, 30 percent outstanding, it's still going to have to be a major, major Biden win in the outstanding votes to be able to make up that gap. Be able to make up that gap.
So that brings me back to what I was initially pointing out. If you were the Biden campaign right now, if you're Democrats, you're looking at a pathway that maybe is a little more skeptical Pennsylvania, is unsure right now where Wisconsin is because we just don't know the composition and we should get answers to that fairly soon. I want to keep an eye on that. And maybe your pathway is Michigan and Georgia.
[03:55:09]
CUOMO: Right.
MATTINGLY: If you hold Nevada, if you hold Arizona, and you win Michigan and you win Georgia, that's 270 electoral votes. So there are pathways here. There are pathways here that we aren't necessarily going to have immediate answers to. The state we are going to have the earliest answer to, is right here.
CUOMO: Right.
MATTINGLY: It's the state of Wisconsin where we will start to get (inaudible).
CUOMO: That's in like, how long?
MATTINGLY: Soon.
CUOMO: It's like a casino in here, there are no clocks. And like 15 minutes or so, we will have an update from Wisconsin with a lot of its reporting. And that will be very helpful. Your head is swimming. Your stomach feels weird.
That's OK, OK. This all matters tremendously. You don't do the counting, we don't do the counting. But we will do the accounting for you. We will make sure that the numbers make sense, that people are doing their jobs. You know, slow and low. That is the tempo, all right. We'll all ignore the noise, we'll keep going with the facts as they come in. Stay with CNN.
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CUOMO: Election night in America continues. We don't know the winner. The president claimed victory. He said he wouldn't, then he did. None of that is a surprise. In fact nothing happening right now is a surprise except this.
