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CNN Projects Biden Wins Michigan; Biden Widens Lead Over Trump. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired November 04, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:00]

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Obviously, these outstanding ballots, which we -- we must count, are all in heavily Democratic areas.

You're going to see the same result, I think, in Pennsylvania and in Nevada and in Arizona. The outstanding ballots are disproportionately Democratic ballots.

So, I feel like, with the calling of Michigan and what we know about Arizona and Nevada, I feel like there's a collective -- at least on my side, I will say, a collective sigh that -- and with that speech that Joe Biden just gave, a sense of calm, a sense of, let's let the votes count. It's going to be OK, America. We are going to get back on track. We are going to respect the Constitution.

I am -- I feel it already that we are headed to be able to restore some normalcy in this country and perhaps giving people a chance to sleep at night.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Scott Jennings, you used to work with Mitch McConnell, close to him.

If the president continues the kind of rhetoric that he has been using, do you think McConnell will talk to the president about it? Does he step in, in some way?

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I -- look, I just want to be clear, I don't speak for him. I can kind of reflect what I think could be on people's minds.

And that is, number one, if you're an American citizen, and you cast a legal vote, it should be counted, whether that's in Pennsylvania, or Arizona or any other state. Number two, I think he thinks courts and judges exist to handle issues. And if they're frivolous, they will be kicked out. And if they have merit, then they will be dealt with.

And there's appropriate legal processes, and everyone can avail themselves of those processes. And they should. And the final analysis of it is though, once all those things are adjudicated, votes will be counted, a result will happen, the Electoral College will meet, and we will have a president. It will either be Donald Trump or it will be Joe Biden, and then the government will move forward from there. So, I think it's, frankly, as simple as that.

I think both campaigns, if they feel like issues need to be addressed in the courts, should be able to do that with the lawyers that they have. But no one should expect any of these judges, whether they're at the state or federal or Supreme Court level, to cast political decisions here.

And I think the people that are on the Supreme Court, because of this new petition, these are judges that were put here because they follow the letter of the law. And so I have every confidence that, if these are frivolous complaints, that they will be treated as such. That's my view.

COOPER: Michael Smerconish, what do you make of the charges the president is making in Pennsylvania, and, frankly, across the country in any states where he's not doing well?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: So far, there's no beef.

You got to show us the beef. If you're going to make the allegation that there's fraud, you have got to have something to back that up before you cast such aspersions.

Look, I respect the way he ran, especially at the end. He left it all on the field. He's entitled to a fair count. He's entitled to, in some circumstances, if he's willing to pay for it, a recount.

But you need to back up the sort of assertions that he's now making. Here's a Philly fact; 1.2 million requests were made for mail-in ballots in the city of Philadelphia and the surrounding Southeastern Pennsylvania suburbs. Last Friday at 5:00 was the deadline for any challenges to those 1.2 million applications.

Do how many application challenges there were? Zero. There were none. So this is the sort of thing I'm talking about. Show us something, if you're going to make these assertions and allegations. Otherwise, you just can't take them seriously.

COOPER: Nia?

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: No, I think that's right.

The president clearly telegraphed what his strategy was going to be going into this, discounting the mail-in ballots, casting aspersions on some of the big urban centers that are yet to report, particularly in Pennsylvania.

We will see what somebody like Mitch McConnell does. But I think the problem is, Mitch McConnell doesn't really have any standing with the people who listen to Donald Trump. He hasn't had any standing with those folks for a long time, with the sort of a core base of people who believe what Donald Trump tells them. And I think that's the real danger here, that there could be millions

of Americans who believe Donald Trump, who believe that there is fraud that is going on in some of these cities, in particular in some of these Rust Belt states it looks like Joe Biden is on to course to win.

The other thing is, Joe Biden looks like he did what he was hired to do, which is to get more white voters to vote for him and flip states, particularly those blue wall states.

So, in some ways, I think Democrats are looking at a victory here. It's yet to be determined. But Biden seems to be on course to win this thing.

[16:35:10]

GRANHOLM: Totally agree with what Nia said.

And I think two points, quickly. Number one, the Supreme Court and Amy Coney Barrett and her, when she replaced Justice Scalia, they are all about the letter of the law. And to Michael Smerconish's point, if the state courts -- and the state courts are the ones -- or the state legislatures are the ones who decide these things -- if they have made it clear what their scheme is for -- not scheme, but their process is for counting votes, then the Supreme Court, we should trust that they are going to not write the law, to not be activists, but to follow the state court law.

And, second, when he -- when Donald Trump does this, when he flails, when he makes allegations that's -- that are conspiracy theories, or I'm going to stop the counter go to -- he looks weak. It looks like he understands that he is losing. He sees these numbers, and he's flailing.

And when you compare that with how statesmanlike Joe Biden was just a minute ago, the contrast, I think, is stark. We can see where this is headed. Let the process unfold.

COOPER: We're going to have more on Joe Biden's...

SMERCONISH: He outperformed the polls.

COOPER: Go ahead.

Sorry. We're going to have more on -- we will be back with our team a little bit later on.

We're going to take a closer look at Joe Biden's win in Michigan. We're also going to look at what is ahead. He's now even closer to 270 electoral votes.

We will show you the path forward for him and a path for the president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:34] JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to CNN's election coverage.

CNN has just declared that -- or projected, rather, that Joe Biden will win Michigan and its 16 electoral votes. Combined with the other states that we have projected, Vice President Biden, former Vice President Biden will win, that's 253 electoral votes to President Trump's 213.

Again, you need 270 to win. There remain several states that we do not know enough to call them or project them, including Arizona, Nevada, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina.

Let's bring in Jim Acosta, who is with team Trump at the White House.

Jim, obviously, this race remains too close to call. We do not know who will be the president of the United States elected this year. What are you hearing from the Trump campaign?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Yes, Jake, talking to my sources inside the Trump campaign, they are starting to sound increasingly pessimistic about the president's chances. I mean, outwardly, they're saying, we're going to win Pennsylvania.

In fact, you have the president's son, Eric Trump, and the White House press secretary on her personal account declaring victory in Pennsylvania. Obviously, that has not occurred. That is misinformation.

But that that is the mind-set outwardly from the Trump campaign. Inside, though, I have talked to a Trump campaign adviser in just the last several minutes. They are pinning their hopes, I'm told, at this point on Arizona. They would like to see Arizona flip back to Donald Trump.

Of course, here at CNN, we haven't called Arizona for Joe Biden. Other outlets have. Of course, they have been fixated on that for hours now, almost a day now since that occurred last night with other outlets.

One adviser I spoke with about Arizona described that state as the O.K. Corral, a reference to the infamous gun battle in the Old West in that state back in the 19th century.

And so, at this point, what can the Trump campaign do? They can launch legal challenges. They're trying to take Pennsylvania to the Supreme Court over its counting of mail-in ballots after Election Day. They're talking about a lawsuit in Michigan to try to halt the balloting there, because they say they don't have sufficient access to observe the ballot counting process.

I talked to a couple of Trump campaign advisers about Wisconsin, and the Trump campaign saying earlier today that they would like to see a recount in Wisconsin. The campaign sounds like, Jake, they're already giving up on that option. Two Trump campaign advisers telling me that that recount is not likely to pan out for the president. There just aren't enough votes available in a recount process that would swing back to President Trump.

And so it sounds like, Jake, that this map is shrinking for Donald Trump. He is running out of space on the map to somehow pull this out -- Jake.

TAPPER: Jim, as you know, there are, in any campaign, the numbers- crunchers, the bean counters, and then there are the spinners and strategists.

Obviously, the people that you just mentioned who are out there declaring victory in states where there remain hundreds of thousands of ballots to be cast are not people that we should be listening to or taking seriously right now.

ACOSTA: Right.

TAPPER: What are the people inside the campaign who are actually the experts on votes, what are they saying about Pennsylvania and Arizona?

Because what I'm hearing from Democrats in those states is that they feel pretty confident.

ACOSTA: You talk to Trump campaign advisers, they will say they believe that there are enough votes out there in Pennsylvania that would hand the state, hand the commonwealth to President Trump.

They believe that, as Arizona and all those returns come in, because we don't have all the returns in from Arizona, that that lead for Joe Biden will shrink just enough to put Donald Trump over the top. Of course, we don't know that to be the case at this point. It is a tall order for that to be the case.

But they believe at this point that their best chance of securing the presidency, securing reelection for Donald Trump goes through the state of Arizona, which, of course, means pulling a state off the map that's already been called by other news outlets.

They're essentially giving up on Wisconsin. They're giving up on Michigan. They need to see North Carolina come home. That is something an adviser just said to me a few moments ago. They need North Carolina to hold.

But, increasingly, they are looking desperately at Arizona, Jake, to somehow come back -- or come into the Trump column. It never was in the Trump column. But they desperately want to see that state in the Trump column, Jake.

TAPPER: Arizona, where they want votes counted, and Pennsylvania, where they want votes to stop being counted.

ACOSTA: That's right.

TAPPER: Jim, do we have any idea if we're going to see President Trump today? We have not seen him.

ACOSTA: Yes, that's a good question. I just asked a White House official about this. They're -- they're

saying at this point no scheduling updates to tell you about. As a White House correspondent, Jake, you would know what that means.

[16:45:01]

That means that anything could happen at this point.

But given the doom and gloom that we're hearing privately being expressed by Trump campaign advisers, that may not happen. We're just have to wait and see whether or not the president surfaces. Obviously, he's on social media, posting all kinds of misinformation on the former tweets, but we have not yet seen the president publicly and we're not sure we're going to see him tonight.

And I suspect, Jake, unless things are moving in his direction, we just might not see him at all.

TAPPER: All right. Jim Acosta, thanks so much. We'll come back to you as news develops.

You know, one of the things that's interesting here, and, look, I'm sitting here and we don't know who is going to win. We don't know who has the majority of votes in Nevada, in Arizona, in Pennsylvania. We are still waiting to hear.

I still am of the mindset that anything could happen. Either Biden or Trump could be elected. The difference is Trump is acting like a loser. Trump is acting like he is somebody going to lose with the flailing, and count votes here, and but stop counts here, and I want a recount here, and lawsuit here, and that to me is a tale of sorts. Even though I'm willing to believe, having covered a lot of these, that maybe the Trump people are right. Maybe there are enough votes in Nevada, Arizona, Pennsylvania.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.

TAPPER: I don't know. But then why act this way?

PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, strategically it makes no sense but in keeping with the president's behavior in general. I mean, he typically -- one of the things that often happens with President Trump, he often likes he has done something wrong even if he might not have done something wrong. He often acts as if he is going to lose even if it's not clear that he is going to lose. He won the presidency and then claimed there was fraud because he lost the popular vote.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly.

PHILLIP: I mean, just -- this goes all the way back to his story as a political figure and I don't necessarily think we should over- interpret that to say that he is definitely going to lose.

TAPPER: Right.

PHILLIP: But I do think it doesn't make any logical or political sense and I do think it suggests that the campaign is actually just trying to keep hope alive in as many places on this map as they can. They really need to keep some avenues open in Nevada and in Arizona. They need to keep the count going in Georgia even and in North Carolina and in Pennsylvania because if they lose really in any of those places, it really narrows their path so dramatically that I think they don't want to be in that position.

So, I get that they are trying everything, but at the same time you talked about logic. You know, the state of Nevada, they sent ballots to all registered voters in the state of Nevada. The president swore up and down for months that that would lead to widespread fraud.

Now he is competing in that state. He thinks he is going to win in that state. So, logically, they are going to the courts and said widespread frauds but one of the states where there is widespread fraud, he thinks he might win.

It doesn't make sense. And I think that as these cases, if they end up being adjudicated, go forward. We're going to see these contradictions over and over again.

I think -- I'm not a lawyer but my person opinion it will make this much more difficult for them. There is not any consistency from east to west on this map in terms of how the campaign is approaching this.

BASH: Yeah. I mean, so much of it is political and not legal. So much of it is taking the stance and having the posture of a winner in Pennsylvania, maybe in Arizona, maybe even in Nevada.

And if you have the posture of a winner that is in the kind of American psyche and, therefore, that is what is going to happen. They will kind of will it that way --

(CROSSTALK)

BASH: No, I was going to say, which I just want to finish this saying that is not how it works. Go ahead.

TAPPER: Well, just -- you talk about the posture of a winner.

BASH: Yeah.

TAPPER: But going on Twitter when there are hundreds of thousands of ballots to be counted and saying we won this state, even though that state has not been declared and they are still counting. That is not how winners behave.

BASH: I agree. I agree. And I just heard from a Republican source saying, you know, if -- who has been an elected official and has been on the ballot saying, you know, generally speaking, if you feel that confident, then you let the votes be counted and if you don't feel confident, then you scream and yell and say we are winners.

Having said that, this is not a typical politician, this is not a typical campaign and this is not a typical group of followers that Donald Trump has which we talked about last night and say it again, there are people who absolutely love this president, a lot of people, millions of people in this country and they hang on everything he says. They believe when members of his family tweet out things like we won, which is just not true.

And so, they are trying to set up a situation where there is just frankly unrest if this false notion of him winning now which he might at the end a place like Pennsylvania, if it doesn't come to pass.

[16:50:12]

And it is -- it's not good.

TAPPER: I know Pennsylvania Republicans. I'm from Pennsylvania. I know a ton of Republicans there. The ones I've spoken to today thinking we need to count all of the votes.

BASH: You're talking about state or -- what did you say, commonwealth Republicans?

TAPPER: Commonwealth Republicans, Pennsylvania Republicans.

BASH: Commonwealth Republicans but not the Trump campaign, very different.

TAPPER: We are tracking the votes in Arizona right now. Joe Biden is currently ahead.

When will a winner be decided in Arizona?

We are going to talk to the secretary of state of Arizona, next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Welcome back.

Joe Biden is getting closer and closer to the magic number of 270 electoral votes needed to win the presidency. As you can see, he now has 253. Trump has 213. He has 253 because we just projected Michigan, a major, major projection for Joe Biden.

[16:55:07]

He still needs some Electoral College votes.

I want to go out to Arizona. Kyung Lah is in Phoenix for us right now.

Arizona is getting closer and closer to finishing up this. What is going on?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We may certainly understand a little bit more about where the state of Arizona is after this evening. We are now hearing, getting this update from the Maricopa County elections department that there will be two releases of ballot information tonight. It will be at 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time and 12:30 a.m. Eastern Time, sometime after that. So, those two bits of data we are going to get. We are not getting any

estimates of how many ballots will be counted and released to the public as far as those numbers. That will certainly give us a better picture of where Arizona is.

This is Maricopa County which includes Phoenix, the most populated county in Arizona. So, you have as to win it here if you're going to win the state.

What we are seeing here at the elections department is a very diligent and careful process. You can see these cardboard boxes over here. These are ballots that are already counted, and the hardworking people behind there, who we saw working through the night, early into the morning, they are going through each of these ballots very carefully.

How many are left to be counted? Statewide, we have about 615,000 to 635,000 that have yet to be counted. They are going through that as we speak.

Here in Maricopa County, they are looking at around 450,000 ballots that are carefully going to be looked at. Some of these have to be opened and signature verified, Wolf, so this is going to take time -- Wolf.

BLITZER: That's very important. Let them do it but let them do it right.

Kyung Lah in Phoenix for us, thank you very much.

Let's go over to David Chalian right now.

He's got a 93,000 vote lead right now in Arizona, David. Biden has a 93,000-vote lead. That's very significant.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: It is significant. Obviously, a state that Donald Trump won four years ago, that 93,000-vote lead translates to 51 percent of the vote for Joe Biden right now, 47.6 percent for Donald Trump. That's with 86 percent of the estimated vote in, Wolf.

But we are taking a look what is left to be counted. This is just a rough estimate back of the envelope stuff, but we think there are some 600,000, roughly, ballots still uncounted. And so, we are doing what both the Biden and Trump campaigns are doing, trying to figure out what each candidate would need of those uncounted ballots in order to win Arizona in their column.

Joe Biden would need 43 to 45 percent in our rough estimate of those uncounted ballots to maintain the current lead he has and flip Arizona and keep it in his column, where he is leading right now. Donald Trump, on the other hand, would need 52 to 55 percent of those uncounted ballots in Arizona in order to overtake Joe Biden's lead and hang on to Arizona like he had four years ago.

But, look. He's at 47.6 percent of the vote right now, the president is. He needs a lot more of that from this last share of vote, these 600,000 uncounted ballots. That could be a tall order for him -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Very -- potentially a very tall order.

You know, John King, let's take a closer look at Arizona right now, Arizona and Nevada. Those two states, if Biden were to win both of those states, he gets 270 electoral.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. If he wins both of those, he is leading in both of them right now.

You see here, I just want to show to our viewers if you're watching at home, you'll see some states on this map. We show you who is leading. They're not called yet. Nevada and Arizona are not called yet.

But Joe Biden is leading right now, and Wolf makes the point, if Joe Biden protects the lead in Nevada, protects that lead in Arizona, he will get to 270 electoral votes, even if he doesn't win the commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

So, let's look at what's happening right now. What did David Chalian just go through -- 600,000 ballots still out, 600,000 and change. Kyung Lah just told us, 400,000 from Maricopa County. That's consistent, right? It's 60 percent of the votes. So, you're going to get about two-thirds of the vote out of here that they still have to count.

Joe Biden is getting 52 percent in Maricopa County right now. If you come on, he's getting 51 percent statewide. You pretty much track Maricopa County, this is the biggest basket of votes.

And so, tonight, Kyung Lah says we'll get two batches of votes. That will tell us if there's any -- if there's a Trump comeback? When you get the votes, they'll come from Maricopa County, this is where the overwhelming number of the votes are going to come from. So, if there's going to be a Trump comeback in Arizona, those votes will tell us.

But David just went through the math and at some point, you have to believe your eyes. We'll watch -- we'll watch this play out.

But the president of the United States needs between 52 and 55 percent to come back. You see, he is getting 46 percent in Maricopa County. He's getting close to 48 percent if you round that up.

So, is that outside the realm? No. It's not what he is getting now. He has to well overperform where he is in the vote count right now, as they count these additional ballots.

[17:00:00]