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CNN Live Event/Special
Presidential Race Narrowing in Pennsylvania; Expecting New Totals in Arizona and Georgia; Protesters Gathering outside Arizona Voting Site. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired November 05, 2020 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: All right. Welcome back to CNN's breaking news coverage, Election Night in America, continued. I'm Chris Cuomo with the OAO, Don Lemon.
What a night. We are due information, any minute, from Arizona.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: An exciting night. You never know what is going to happen. And that's what we have been saying the entire time. I hate to say in these overnight hours, Chris, because I feel like everybody's up with us watching, right?
We're continuing to count the votes. They're counting the votes. We're bringing the information. The president's lead over Joe Biden in Georgia, as you have been talking with Phil there at the wall, it's shrinking, Chris, and still more votes to be counted in Georgia.
CUOMO: Look, this has been unique. We have come out this year, in this country, in ways we've never seen before. It's a blessing and a problem. The blessing is people want a hand in their future. The problem is there are a lot of votes to count.
And many of the states that are vital didn't even start until after polls closed or the morning of Election Day. So as real issues come up, we'll take them one at a time. But we're going to ignore the noise.
And it's long past time we made that decision. So we're going to stand by for a large batch of votes to come; specifically, in Arizona. We are literally told it is imminent. That's not a sell. That's what we are being told.
There, the former V.P. has a narrow lead over Trump but it is narrow and growing narrower. Therefore it is time for a key race alert.
Let's take a look here. Arizona, 11 electoral votes, 84 percent of the estimated vote is in. But there is an emerging story here, Maricopa County, where Joe Biden is winning, is also where Donald Trump did well in 2016 when he won Arizona.
And in the latest couple of batches of returns, Trump has done better, comparatively, over Biden, shrinking the lead to under 80,000 votes.
Will that continue?
If it does, the president could win in Arizona and change the landscape of the race.
Next, Georgia, 16 electoral votes; 95 percent of the estimated vote is in. But that 5 percent is deceptive.
Why?
Still, big population centers that break blue in a big way to be counted. This lead has been shrinking hourly. It's gone down almost 10,000 votes on our watch, 49.6 to 49.1. You are getting very close to this being a guarantee of asking for a recount.
Next, Nevada, six electoral votes, very important and also a little frustrating.
Why?
We just spoke to the AG there about potential litigation but we don't know anything. And they told us this morning that we're not going to know anything until tomorrow. The lead had been chewed down to 7,600 votes there.
The question is can the president chew down that lead even more?
Hard to put meat on the bones because we don't have the information. But Nevada matters, based on what else happens. These could be a key six votes, especially for the president. So we'll keep an eye on that.
Next, Pennsylvania. OK, this is the one that everybody seems to like to talk about.
And why?
Well, we'll take you through it. This was a huge lead. The president has used this state a couple of different times. OK?
He used it, most recently, by saying I was up so many votes in Pennsylvania. We're going to win Pennsylvania. It's over.
And I understand why he said it. One, no respect for facts.
But two, he was up over 600,000 votes. Not anymore. This is why you #KeepCounting. He is down to 164,000. There are huge-population centers at play, that could break blue.
[02:05:00]
CUOMO: So we're watching. As that happens, we will get a better sense, 89 percent of the estimated vote in. He is also using it as his linchpin for "I don't like the way they handled early mail voting there," mail-in voting. It's been to the Supreme Court twice but we will keep an eye on it. Next is North Carolina. OK, this has been a quiet story here. The
president is up. He has been up 76,000 votes.
Is it worth waiting for this other 5 percent?
Maybe, if it comes disproportionately from the Research Triangle and that breaks unusually blue. But we have no indication of that, at this time.
That is the key race alert. Let's look at the big map here, the electoral map, my favorite thing, 253-213. It keeps staying there.
Why?
Because we're not calling states. It's -- there are too many votes. You can't get this kind of stuff wrong. The assuredness is going to translate into how we move forward, together. So let's break down the state of play.
Phil Mattingly, magic wall, my friend, we are waiting on Arizona. We are seeing trickles from Georgia, unannounced.
What are you impressed by?
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN U.S. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I want to talk to you about Pennsylvania.
CUOMO: Please do.
MATTINGLY: Because you seem skeptical of some of the things I have presented, that I have attempted to present to you over the course of this night.
You have made a very clear case and very clear point. This is a significant lead, at 164,000 votes. However, let's keep in mind, I will even take you back. Let's take you back to 12:00 am, midnight, November 4th. The lead was 548,000 votes.
CUOMO: We were together.
MATTINGLY: We were together.
CUOMO: I'll never forget your eyes.
MATTINGLY: It was a beautiful time -- 548,000 votes.
Move up to 2:00 am, 709,000 votes. Again, this is when Donald Trump, in Pennsylvania, was mostly Election Day vote, where Donald Trump crushed turnout in Western Pennsylvania, appeared to hit his margins in a lot of places in northeastern Pennsylvania.
Let's keep going, 10:00 am, all of a sudden, starts to go down. They start counting absentee ballots. They start counting vote by mail; 3:00 pm, 435,000; 6:00 pm, 276,000; 195,000 by 9:00 pm.
Where do we sit right now, 182,000. Turn this off. The point being, this is shrinking. It's now at 164,000..
Now what's outstanding?
What's outstanding?
What's the biggest place that's outstanding right now?
Philadelphia County, look at the margin and look at the top-line vote for Joe Biden. There's 30 percent outstanding and Joe Biden's already at 457,000 votes. You are talking about not 5,000-15,000 votes here. You are talking about six-figure votes.
CUOMO: Harry Enten, how many votes are we waiting on from Philadelphia?
Do you know?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There are different estimates but certainly well more than a 100,000 we are waiting for there. And my guess is those would be even more Democratic than those votes right there, especially given the 2016 results for Clinton.
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CUOMO: -- 120,000 votes outstanding.
MATTINGLY: That is a single counting. So Harry makes a key point here.
CUOMO: Well, it's the biggest county.
MATTINGLY: It's the biggest county. Back to 2016, that was the margin in 2016. It was a good margin for Hillary Clinton.
Let's flip back to 2020. There is a lot more vote to come in here. There is a lot more vote to come in here. And the margin's going to grow and Harry makes a key point. This is a Democratic county. It is a very large margin right now.
The margins on the mail-in vote in Michigan, Wisconsin, a similar type of pathway we have been following in Pennsylvania as well, skewing even more heavily Democratic. So the expectation is it could come in 79-80 percent Biden, 20 percent Trump.
CUOMO: So you're saying you like the way Biden sits in Pennsylvania better than Trump at this point?
MATTINGLY: It's not whether I like or dislike something. What I am telling you is what's outstanding and what numbers are. So that's the biggest county and that's the most vote that's outstanding and what that means for the state of Pennsylvania.
Here is what is also important. Look, you got a couple counties here. You have Allegheny that's still outstanding here. What I want to show you is the red counties here. OK, fine, you've got a couple big, Democratic counties out here. These are red counties. So Trump's got to have vote in these. Naturally, that would be where that would come in.
Couple things here. One, yes, it's true; Crawford County. It's a red county, 72 percent reporting. There will be a couple thousand here. That's not going to match up with Philadelphia.
Here is the biggest issue right now that Donald Trump is facing. These are Republican counties. What we have seen come in, in Republican counties across the state over the last six or seven hours, has been Democratic vote.
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MATTINGLY: No, no, no, I'm just talking about Pennsylvania right now.
CUOMO: I'm just saying, just a point of contrast for people, as we wait on Arizona. Arizona's been a different story. But I hear you. Even though it's red, it's been breaking blue because of the types of votes there are.
MATTINGLY: Here's the best example. Take a look at Luzerne. Back to 2016, a little better than Hillary Clinton was doing. So what Joe Biden is doing, in places where Donald Trump did very well in 2016, he is holding down margins with votes still outstanding.
Now look at the margin if you go back.
[02:10:00]
MATTINGLY: It was a bigger margin at midnight. The margin starts to shrink, even in a Republican county.
Why?
Because Democratic vote is more heavily mail-in. They are counting mail-in vote. So even in red counties -- we look at the blue counties and say that's got to be big Democratic. That's going to go heavily towards Biden.
As these margins shrink over the course of the last seven or eight hours, what it's telling us is that even the mail-in coming into strong Republican counties is skewing towards Democrat.
So my point here is that, yes, 164,000 votes ahead is a wide margin. There is a lot of outstanding vote. There is a lot of outstanding vote in strongholds, whether it's Philadelphia or whether it's Allegheny County, home of Pittsburgh.
But also, the outstanding vote in Republican counties has been whittled away. The margins toward Donald Trump have been whittled away, to where a couple things are apparent.
One, a lot of the outstanding vote, even in Republican counties, is leaning Democrat.
And, two, if you take the overall composition of Pennsylvania and compare it to 2016, even in Trump strongholds, his margin is missing. His margin is missing the mark. It's coming underneath how he performed in 2016.
All of that put together tells you that Joe Biden has a clear pathway in Pennsylvania, even if he is down by 164,000 votes.
Now we have made this clear, over the course of the last 15 hours we've spent together in the last two days. Anything can happen. We wait for the vote to be counted.
But I want to -- I wanted to walk through why Pennsylvania, right now.
If you are looking at Pennsylvania and you watched what happened in Michigan last night and you watched what happened in Wisconsin last night, we saw the same type of thing occur. Pennsylvania is now ripe for that to occur as well, when votes start to come in Philadelphia County, Pittsburgh and across the state.
CUOMO: All right. So three things.
One, the question of, well, why is Pennsylvania taking longer?
Well, there is no reason. We don't have any, you know, reason. The rule about counting mail-in ballots was that they didn't count them right away. And these are big areas, where they have their staffing concerns and they're taking their time. There has been no problem.
Two, you know, you move very fast in the state, it makes it very hard to counter any of the points that you are making.
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CUOMO: The third thing is, you're right. Our adage is, our only care is that it's fair. The outcome, you know, that's going to be something you'll have to be OK with or not. But it does start to get more of a dicey proposition as you have more and more of the vote in.
How much room is there?
Is there enough for it to happen?
You make a very cogent case. Now the reason I point this out, let's go back to Arizona because it is in opposite state of play, as you said, the inverse state of play, where, Maricopa County, which Trump won. Right now, it's blue.
But this is a flip situation, potentially, Maricopa County, which is where we are waiting for information and we'll get it any minute and bring it to you right away, Biden is winning but Trump won here the last time. And we are seeing the opposite phenomenon here, where, as the later votes that come in.
Here is the question, are the later votes coming in Maricopa County, were they mail-in votes?
Or were they people who handed -- you know, are they mail-in votes, still, in Maricopa County?
But they are breaking for Trump and not for Biden?
MATTINGLY: So composition is a combination of late mail and late dropoff.
CUOMO: So late mail is what it sounds like, it came through the mail. Dropoff is where you put it in the box.
MATTINGLY: But here is the difference here. And you make a great point about why this is different than what we have seen in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. The late mail, over the course of the last six or seven hours, has actually leaned Republican. That's why the Trump campaign wanted to ensure that everybody counted every single vote in Arizona. They knew what vote was outstanding. They knew how their voters were coming in. And they believed the late batches coming in, in Maricopa, would go in their favor.
The question -- and we have been chewing over this all night as we wait for this data, hopefully, finally, to come in from Maricopa County -- what is the margin there?
We know, based on what's outstanding right now, Donald Trump needs to hit somewhere around 57-58 percent from here on out.
CUOMO: He'd have to overperform but he's been doing it.
MATTINGLY: The last batch, he hit it. He may hit it again and that's going to whittle it even more. So we will see how this happens. But this is why we've been kind of waiting on a pin here.
CUOMO: Sometimes, when you do this, it feels like an eventuality. You're just waiting for confirmation. I don't feel like this about this state. I really feel like this could be anybody's state. We have to keep watching. Kyung Lah has been preparing us for when the data comes in.
It's an important guide. Nobody wants to say, hey, rush them, they're taking too long. They are doing God's work. They're doing democracy's work.
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CUOMO: They had said around 2:00 am. We're past it, now.
Any indication of if there is a delay or just taking the time it takes?
Or is there a problem, is there a problem with the machine?
The protest?
Anything going on or are we just waiting?
What's the latest word?
KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT: We're just waiting. I mean, that's really the bottom line here. And because we're not in the Elections Department, I can't you know, talk to people, face to face, and find out exactly why. Although, they have been texting us. The spokespeople there have been very forthcoming about why there have been just a few delays.
And we want to point out that these aren't hard deadlines. They are reporting as everything comes in. So it was supposed to happen around 2:00 am Eastern time. There was a delay because of some of the uploading of the data.
A reminder, that when you are talking about trying to scan ballots and gathering all of that, that does take time. If you think how much time it takes for your computer to upload data. That was the first delay.
Then there was a second delay because there was a review of some of the audit logs. That's just taking time.
I'm going to refresh my screen one more time because I'm in a parking lot. And normally, we've been seeing they've been running us papers and telling us, oh, wait, no, sorry, things did not change. I'm sleepy. So, yes, we still don't have any updated numbers.
But I can tell you, from after spending almost two solid days with Elections Department in Maricopa County that, as they get it, they are sharing it. And it is on a publicly available site. They have told us to keep refreshing the page. When they have it, they will let us know.
What I can tell you about the first bit of data that we got, was that it was about 76,000 ballots that were processed and released. So what we're looking for, is to see if it is another number like that. There's about 450,000, minus that 76, that we were waiting to see how long it was going to take to process.
And they're whittling it down. One other thing, Chris. After this ballot information that we're going to get tonight, it's not going to be until tomorrow night that we get more information because they're going to be processing so many ballots.
And then, it's going to get to the point where they're going to have these mail ballots, these mail-in ballots, that were delivered in person. The ballots have to be taken out. The signature has to be verified. It's going to slow down. It's going to take some time to get that process done.
So it is not unusual here, in Arizona, for a close race, for it to take many days. It is something we saw in 2018 in this state, in the Senate race between Martha McSally and Kyrsten Sinema.
CUOMO: We saw in 2016, also, there was a delay. You keep refreshing your phone. If this is you when you are tired, I'm even more jealous of your aptitude because you tired is me on a six-pack of Red Bull. Thank you very much for giving us the latest. When you get the numbers in, Kyung, we'll come right to you.
Let's take this opportunity to take a little bit of a break. And as soon as we get the information, we'll come back after the break. We'll give you the latest data, as we start moving towards a point where this country will say this is who leads us next.
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LEMON: So we're watching the votes come in, when they do come in -- Nevada, Arizona, North Carolina, Pennsylvania. But what we're watching closely right now, really, is Georgia. Georgia really getting close in the count between the former vice president and the current president of the United States.
I want to get to State Farm Arena, down in Atlanta, Georgia, in the basement. And this is a supersite where they are tallying up the early voting. Nick Valencia's there.
Nick, last we spoke, you were speaking with Fulton County Elections director Richard Barron. He said there were 14,000 outstanding ballots.
Has he given you an update?
What do you know?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, hey, Don. We just got an update, a short time ago. That's now 13,000 absentee ballots remain to be counted here in the county. At one point, they were moving at about 3,000 votes per hour. That has, since, slowed down.
But these workers behind me, Don, I mean, there is a sense of urgency. You feel it, the vibe in the room. You feel it, there is a lot of pressure and a very important job. I wanted to introduce you to one of the poll workers here, Louise Herbert.
You are just so special. We have been talking about you guys and everyone's watching the work that you do here.
What's your experience been like?
And did you think Fulton County would be this close?
LOUISE HERBERT, POLL WORKER: First, in my experience, it's a long- term experience, I have been doing elections for a while. But this experience is new to me.
VALENCIA: But you came here tonight at 8:30 because you saw they needed help and you got sworn in.
HERBERT: Yes, I did. It -- it was good. I just got into the flow. I learned what I was supposed to do and I did the job to the best of my ability, until this hour, right now.
VALENCIA: So you're finished and how many ballots would you estimate did you go through tonight?
HERBERT: A thousand, a little less than a thousand. Maybe between 500 and 600.
VALENCIA: Did you encounter any issues, at all, Louise?
Tell us about that.
HERBERT: The only issue that might happen is the machines, you know how machines are. You push the paper through. They may jam a little.
VALENCIA: As you are scanning them, after you process them?
HERBERT: Yes, that's about it.
(CROSSTALK)
VALENCIA: -- explained to us last hour a little about what this center is. Just so you can remind our viewers who are maybe tuning in the first time. What's going on because you're not actually counting them here. This is the first step in the process.
HERBERT: Yes. They're going to be processing through --
VALENCIA: You open up the -- you open up the envelope.
HERBERT: Yes. So we open the ballots. We count them. We put them through a machine. They're counted. And that's how the process is done.
VALENCIA: I spoke to you -- it doesn't -- it seems very simple but this is a lot of pressure that you guys are under. I spoke to you earlier this evening.
[02:25:00]
VALENCIA: You seem to be taking things in such stride, considering how much of a spotlight and focus is on Atlanta right now.
HERBERT: I know. It's -- it's my personality. I take things in stride, my whole life.
VALENCIA: We know a lot of people here, you guys have been working tirelessly. You got here last night at 8:30. Some at 8:30 this morning. Describe the atmosphere and the mood for those who aren't here in this room.
HERBERT: It's -- everybody almost seems to have the same vibe like me. OK, let's just do this. Those who are here longer days, they're a little more tired, a little more fatigued. But they're still pressing on.
VALENCIA: We know you have got to be tired. You spent a lot of time here. Thank you so much for your contribution to this country.
Democracy, in action, right here tonight, Don. Things are too close to call; 24 hours ago, Don, when I was reporting, President Trump had a 102,000 margin lead. That has considerably shrunk. About 23,000 margin lead that he has right now.
And I mentioned 13,000 absentee ballots to be counted here. Earlier, we were told by the secretary of state there were 90,000 absentee ballots across the state. We haven't got an update in these overnight hours. But still, a lot of focus right now, here, on Atlanta.
LEMON: Just to be clear, Nick, they're going to continue to update.
They're not going to wait until the morning?
VALENCIA: They are going to continue to update those numbers on the secretary of state's website. But they're not going to come out to make a statement on camera. We shouldn't expect to hear from any election officials if they are not in this room. So we're going to keep an eye on those numbers but secretary of state is not going to address the media until later this morning.
LEMON: Nick Valencia down in Atlanta for us. Nick, thank you very much.
Nick just spoke with Louise Herbert. Those are the real patriots out there. Here it is, almost 2:30 in the morning. Many of those people are volunteering their time. Some of them are paid; they work for the election or the secretary of state's office.
But many of them are volunteers just doing their civic duty. So they deserve to be commended.
Let's bring in some other folks that deserve to be commended, Bakari Sellers, Alice Stewart and Ryan Lizza.
Bakari, I understand you will be donating your services tonight so you will be giving our salary to me. Not happening.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Listen, no, I still got student loans to pay.
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SELLERS: Definitely, not donating anything.
LEMON: But they do deserve to be commended. And they're taking part in a process that is unique, in many ways, and it's a sacred right and a constitutional right for Americans.
Ryan, I want to start with you because it's incredible to see people out there, getting this processing done in the middle of the night. You must admit that.
RYAN LIZZA, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. It's great to see. I thought that was a great interview.
And, look, it's sad that these are the people who are coming under attack. I mean, these are volunteers, low-paid workers, you know, under an intense national glare. I think a lot -- you know, a lot of these people probably didn't expect to have cameras in the rooms watching them do this work.
And, you know, I'm always impressed with people, who are not used to being on TV, not used to doing interviews, just get up there, you know, with that kind of poise and grace and explain what's going on.
And I think the fact that political operatives have sicced protesters, you know, outside some of these places is really disappointing. And, you know, from what I have seen from online, on social media and some other news networks, I don't think that we've seen the last of that, unfortunately, especially, if these remaining states start trending towards Biden.
And I -- I think we may -- we may see some more of that, unfortunately.
LEMON: That is unfortunate.
I want to ask you, Bakari, and I saved this question for you because I really want to hear what you have to say about it, because we have been hearing, as results are coming in, right?
The president is obviously watching very closely. Our Jim Acosta is reporting that sources are saying the president is bleeding GOP support.
How do you see this playing out?
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SELLERS: That's a loaded question.
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: I see democracy playing out.
LEMON: Especially, since the current leadership, really, I mean, no checks and balances on the president. They've just sort of let -- he's just run over them, run ramshod (sic) right over them.
SELLERS: Well, I see democracy playing out. You know, Marco Rubio, Mitch McConnell, the Republican Party, they will see that the ship is sinking. They will see that, in Arizona, it's getting bleaker. In Nevada, it's getting bleaker. In Pennsylvania, it's getting bleaker. And they will run away from him quickly.
I mean, they won't -- they won't stay with the person who brought them to the dance. I think we will realize that there is absolutely no loyalty in this game. And Donald Trump is used to being a bully. But what he will realize, really quick, is that he was a cheap four-year date for a lot of these individuals. And they will move on and they will attempt to.
[02:30:00] SELLERS: They will attempt to make sure that they ensure their longevity in the Senate or whatever it may be or their future ambitions. But what we're seeing tonight, Don, and you asked me to point this out, there are two things.
One, this is democracy at work. Shout-out to Tony Ressler, who is the owner of Atlanta Hawks, which is why we have State Farm Arena and why we have these amazing people coming on camera tonight and doing God's work, counting these ballots throughout tonight. It's amazing how all of this works. That's number one.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And for a lot of athletes who stood up and really forced their team owners to use the facilities as polling places and such.
SELLERS: It's all -- listen -- it's all interconnected. Like, you know, you use your voice and things like this happen. Usually, you don't have State Farm Arena. But this year, we do because democracy works, only because we understand it's participatory and we use our voice. That's number one.
Number two, quickly, America is what we always thought America to be. And I think there are a lot of people, myself, who were Pollyannaish -- and I heard the panel earlier with Mark Preston and others who I agree with, who thought this country was changing faster than it is.
I think what we're realizing is Barack Obama was more of an aberration. And Donald Trump is who we thought America was. And that's why you have this tendency of Democrats to be so sad and depressed and upset.
Even though it looks like Joe Biden may actually get to 270 electoral votes, people wanted a blowout so we could push back on xenophobia, bigotry and racism. But what we got is a lot of people saying, ehh, that racism, it ain't all that bad. You know, we can take a little bit of it.
And so, I think that people will realize the reason that Donald Trump was as successful as it was -- as he was is because a lot of us underestimated and we thought we were further along in this country than we are. But progress takes time and I'm just happy that the arc of justice is always bending, slightly, in our direction.
LEMON: Well, this is a conversation after we got off air this morning, Chris and I had about the two different Americas. The president, getting more support, even during a pandemic, even during the racial strife that we have been seeing in the country over, really, the last four years but really has ramped up in the last couple of months.
That even pollsters and people who -- who watch what happens in our -- society watchers and newsmakers, thought that the country was in a completely different place. And how Black people and white people in this country really have a whole, completely different perspective on what's happening in the world. It's like that "SNL" skit after 2016 with Hillary Clinton, where you
have Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock at a party and all the white people are going, I can't believe our country wouldn't, you know, it's so racist.
Like, really?
What country have you been living in?
SELLERS: Listen. I truly believe that we're going to get there. And that may be my youthful naivete. But I firmly believe -- and tonight, in Georgia, with C.T. Vivian, with John Lewis, with all of these luminaries that are watching over this process, even John McCain in Arizona, I believe we'll get there.
I think that there are people who believe in the better angels of our nature. However, I will tell you that we may get there but we damn sure ain't there, yet. And that's what this election showed us.
LEMON: The thing is we really can get there. There are people, like- minded people, who have the country's best interest at heart and their citizens' best interest.
Alice -- Alice, I want to get to you and talk more about this GOP support that Jim is reporting here, that the president is bleeding GOP support. That's what the reporting is. We have not seen that. We have not seen any -- any Republicans come out and say the president, at least publicly, should not be saying that. Folks in office, you have people like Chris Christie and Rick Santorum saying it on television but you don't have leaders saying it.
DCOP officials see the president's complaints -- and this is a quote -- ambulance -- an ambulance-chasing routine.
How do you see this?
ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look. I think when we have, for the last several weeks, the president questioning the integrity of the elections and the potential outcomes and then, right out of the gate, he says, last night, that he potentially will get the Supreme Court involved with regard to these election results.
That did cause concern for some Republicans, speaking with many of them, and also, declaring, without having gotten to 270 Electoral College votes, that he is the winner. And that caused some consternation among Republicans.
LEMON: But they won't say it publicly, will they?
STEWART: Some have but some, certainly, have not. Obviously, we're still in the thick of things and we need to let every vote count. And this is one of my issues. I said it last night. He was rather premature in a lot of what he said last night. Talking about the Supreme Court involvement.
[02:35:00] STEWART: It was almost as though it was a solution in search of a problem, because we had not seen any evidence of irregularities at the polls.
I do think there are some things that need to be looked at now. But coming right out of the gate, saying that, I felt, was rather premature. Look, it's important if he is going to barnstorm this country and Joe Biden is barnstorming the country over the last several weeks and say every vote counts, then, let's count every vote.
And that's why it's really important to do what we're doing in Georgia and all of these states and making sure that we get the numbers right.
LEMON: OK.
STEWART: I'm -- we just heard there's a sense of urgency in Georgia. There's, also, a sense, amongst Republicans, that Joe Biden might actually win Georgia. And I find that really hard to believe. But we will know that when we take our time and patiently --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- sense of urgency in Georgia, maybe there's a sense of urgency among people who are saying, let's get this over with. But the people who are working down at the -- at the State Farm Arena, they just want to get it right. That's the urgency that they feel.
And they said they don't have to be first. They're not trying to go fast. They just want to get it right.
But Ryan, what I want to ask you is, you know, she said the president jumped the gun, so to speak. I'm paraphrasing what Alice said. It was a bit premature. OK. I'll give you that.
But there's a difference between being premature and then undermining the integrity of the election and saying that people are trying to steal the election from him and, then, not wanting people's votes to be counted. That's a horse of another color.
LIZZA: Yes. I like that expression.
Look. He said -- some of the stuff is just absurd and silly and can be ignored. You know, what a candidate says, oh, I won Pennsylvania, I mean, it doesn't matter what the candidate says. Doesn't matter what the campaigns say. They are just observers, like we are, at this point. The count will go on.
So I -- I dismiss that, to a certain extent. The legal challenges are more serious. What they've done in Pennsylvania and what they've said publicly is they want ballots thrown out. And they want the U.S. Supreme Court to take another look at this.
Now as we -- as was reported before on CNN, it's likely those votes aren't going to make a difference anyway. But they could. If this whole thing comes down to Pennsylvania and those votes are the deciding factor, that would be kind of a legal nightmare scenario, where the Trump campaign would try and take this back to the U.S. Supreme Court.
They now have an extra vote on the court from the -- from the last time that the -- the court reviewed this issue. And the entire race would be decided by Barrett. Now we're a long way from that kind of thing.
So -- and then, the final thing is the public incitement against the officials.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Ryan, I have to go because we're getting some votes in. Thank you, guys. Stand by. We'll be back to you.
Chris, I just gave away what we were talking about a little bit this morning. But we'll talk about that later, as I understand you have some vote totals coming in.
CUOMO: Yes, my friend, we got a lot of time but let's go to Kyung Lah.
Kyung, first of all, thank you so much. We know you had to get moved out of the building and you guys are set up in the parking lot. And you are working different phones. I mean, you're a professional, in every situation. But this is tough duty and the accuracy matters. So thank you so much for getting us the information.
What do you got?
LAH: OK. We have new numbers for Maricopa County. And before we go into these numbers, remember, Maricopa County encompasses the city of Phoenix. It is the most populous county in Arizona. If you win Arizona, you will win the -- if you win Maricopa, you are most likely to win Arizona.
So we just got a ballot count of 62,000 ballots that were just counted. That is the count that has come out. And here is the spread now. And I am going to go through these numbers.
Joe Biden has 912,585, 912,585 votes. He is at 51 percent. President Trump is at 838,071, 838,071. He is at 47 percent. That is a 4-point spread.
So as we are getting more of these numbers, you can see that that is continuing. The point spread in the data release of ballots we got earlier this evening showed a point spread of 85,000, approximately 85,000. That has shrunk, slightly, to 74,514.
So when we talk about the race tightening here in Arizona, this is what we're talking about. The race has tightened about 10,000 votes. So it is tighter and tighter with each of these releases.
Can we read into this?
Do we know what this is?
No.
[02:40:00]
LAH: What we do know is the Maricopa County elections department says what they are processing these ballots that are brought in, they are early votes from Saturday, Sunday and Monday. So these are the late voters and that's what's being processed right now.
So the race tightening here in Maricopa County, certainly. We haven't processed what it looks like across the state. I'm going to leave that to Phil. But here, in Maricopa County, it is a tightening race.
CUOMO: All right. This is really helpful. One quick thing and, also, start with a thanks; 62,000 just came in, in this batch.
Any indication from them about how many more they have and when they might dump?
LAH: OK. So now, it gets a little more complicated. We started this process here, in Maricopa County, with approximately 450,000 votes that had to be counted. And this is just Maricopa County. This is not the entire state of Arizona.
The entire state of Arizona is closer to 650,000. So 450,000, so minus the 76,000, plus the 62,000 that have just come in -- somebody, pull out a calculator. I didn't do very well in math.
CUOMO: All right. Just give me the numbers. We'll get it.
LAH: And then, you just take that and subtract it. OK. So 450,000. You subtract out the 76,000 ballots that came in. And then, this latest ballot -- it's on my producer's phone -- it's like 62,000, 62,000 votes that came in. So if you add those two together. Then, subtract it out from 450 and you're at about 320 or so?
So that's what they're working through and that's still a lot of votes out here in Maricopa County.
CUOMO: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Let me know what else, if you have any timing information or anything, but appreciate it, Kyung. You advanced the understanding. Let's get to the board and figure out what it means.
LAH: This is the last data. This is the last time they are going to give us data for tonight.
CUOMO: OK, great. Get some rest. We got a long haul. Thank yourself and the team. Appreciate you both. Take care.
All right. So headline; 79,000 was the spread. Now it's 68,000.
MATTINGLY: Yes. About a 10,000-vote gain. The beauty of this is I don't have to do what Kyung was trying to do and map it out in her head. I was trying to write it on the wall and then it showed up. We and Harry were trying to talk what this batch would actually include and what it led to, what came in, is about a 10,000-vote gain for President Trump in terms of the current margin. Now we know.
CUOMO: Almost 11,000.
MATTINGLY: Almost 11,000. We know what's outstanding, based on what Kyung was reading out, probably about 313,000 votes in Maricopa County, biggest county. So margin shrunk a little bit.
The big question is, is he on track?
Is that enough?
Is he hitting 56-57 percent of what he needed to stay at the margin that he was going for?
CUOMO: How do we know that?
MATTINGLY: Do you have the numbers written down?
CUOMO: I do.
Do you have 'em, Harry?
ENTEN: I believe he won that batch by about 18 percentage points. So that should -- that puts him there, in that batch. If that continued, which we obviously don't know if it would, but if it continued in that pace, he would be on the track.
CUOMO: So if the president continues to perform the way he is right now, with each batch, he would meet and beat Biden's lead.
MATTINGLY: At least meet. At least meet. And so, here is the wild card. This is why we've been telling everybody to keep watching this. This is why the Trump campaign has been telling everybody to keep watching this, is the compilation of the last couple of batches.
President Trump has been meeting the thresholds he needs to meet to at least pull even with Joe Biden. That is why you have seen the margin come down. Just came down 10,000, 11,000 votes again. The biggest question is the composition of what's left and not just in Maricopa but also, we have been waiting for votes to come in from Pima County.
My understanding, about 17,000 votes in from Pima County as well, which we expect to be more Democratic. So Biden campaign says they feel good about the latter or final batch.
CUOMO: What do they know about the batches that we don't know?
MATTINGLY: Actually, both campaigns have a pretty good understanding of what the outstanding vote is and where it is. They can match it with voter files; they know when people voted, how people voted. They should have it, via their contact program. They should have a good sense of where, if they are good at what they're doing and, frankly, they're presidential campaigns. They're good at what they're doing, they should have a good idea of where things stand. It's why campaigns -- it's why the Trump campaign was saying, do not
call Arizona. We think we have outstanding vote in Arizona that's going to get us there. That's been the reason why and we have started to see that's exactly what happened.
CUOMO: Fair point. I get why the president's campaign didn't like that it was called, not just because it's bad news for them but because they were right. I mean, if you count the votes, things can change.
Harry --
ENTEN: I was just going to say, I would be a little surprised if that rate continued.
[02:45:00]
ENTEN: Based upon what I am understanding is still out there, I would be surprised. I think these votes tend to be the ones that are not the drop-off votes but are the vote by mail that came in over the weekend. Those are supposedly more Republican than the drop-off votes that came on Election Day.
Now we don't know that, for sure. Let's see what happens. But I would be surprised if the president continued on this track, at least at this point.
CUOMO: All right. So let's do it this way. I don't understand. Help me understand why you don't think he would continue on this pace and what the difference is between what types of ballots they are.
ENTEN: So we know the party registration of the people who were voting by mail, late, was much more Republican than those who were dropping off their ballots late.
And my belief and sort of what we think was coming in first and then second, the last batch, I believe, will be less Republican-leaning than this particular batch and the first batch that came in. That is my understanding, at this point.
MATTINGLY: From a numbers perspective, what Harry's saying is, instead of whittling down 10,000-15,000 votes per batch that comes in, all of a sudden, President Trump is getting 2m000 or 3,000. And then, you add in Pima as well.
So while he might narrow this a little bit more, it won't be enough. Instead of hitting 56 or 57 percent, he is hitting 51-52 percent and that falls short.
But we have to wait and see what the composition is and what it's made up of. And we're talking about Maricopa. There's still outstanding vote in Pima as well and a couple other counties.
CUOMO: So we've had a change of play, a change in the state of play here that benefits the president. And yes, this gets a little complicated. But one, lucky for you, you have better minds than mine that are chewing on the information and understanding what it means.
But here is the simple version. OK. It ain't over in Arizona. You have to count all the votes. Sounds simple. But it takes time. And as we see in Arizona, the state of the race could change there. Joe Biden is holding on. It may be enough. There's a lot more to learn and we'll take you through it. Quick break. And then, we'll get to it.
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[02:50:00]
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LEMON: We're continuing to look at the vote count that's coming in. Chris is in the other studio and they've got that part of it. I want to get some perspective on where we are. Let's bring in our presidential historian Douglas Brinkley.
I know it's a rote question but have you ever seen anything like this?
And can you compare it to any moment in our election history at least?
DOUG BRINKLEY, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: It brings back the year 2000, where Al Gore conceded at one point and then called George W. Bush and said, I take it back. And, of course, it went on for 36 days until we finally got a winner declared by the Supreme Court. Florida was what everybody was talking about back in 2000.
Right now it's all Pennsylvania, in my mind. You can see, it does astound me, Don, that Joe Biden's got 71.5 million votes. Nobody running in U.S. presidential history has gotten as many votes as Joe Biden.
And right now momentum in these last states, as you've all been covering so well, really does seem to be edging Biden's way. I know that's too early to say but it seems to me right now that we're looking at Donald Trump, blowing his fact that he was an incumbent.
Since FDR all the way until now there have only been three previous times, 1976 with Gerald Ford, 1980 with Jimmy Carter., 1992 with George Herbert Walker Bush, when an incumbent president lost and it looks like it may be heading in that direction.
LEMON: Listen and, rightfully so you point out, the votes are still being counted. We don't know what's going to happen in those states.
But I thought about 2000. With 2000, we were keenly focused on Florida, remember, and it was a recount. So we had that night and then, as you said, one person was the winner and then the other person conceded and then they had to do it all over again.
But this is spread all the way across the country. It goes from Nevada west all the way to the east, North Carolina or Philadelphia -- excuse me, Pennsylvania. So this is the entire country. It's not just one state we're focused on.
BRINKLEY: Yes. And it's part of this divided America narrative.
I mean, keep in mind, in 2004, John Kerry almost won. He could have had Ohio, if he put John Glenn on as his vice president, the senator from Ohio, instead of John Edwards of North Carolina, he may have been president in '04. We've had close ones before.
But this is particularly odd. It's so razor thin. And Georgia being the talk of the night just tells you that, as Bakari mentioned, you think about John Lewis, you think about Selma 1965, this vote, vote, vote. You think about Barack Obama saying, don't boo, vote. It may make the difference.
African American vote in Atlanta and the Latino or Mexican American vote in Arizona. You know, Yuma, Arizona, Don, is where Cesar Chavez was from. And one of Cesar Chavez's last protests, in Arizona when he was fasting, took place there. He kept thinking someday Arizona was the Latino vote would matter. This may be the year.
And then Biden being the third senator from Pennsylvania. The fact he's been able in his career to make Scranton his headquarters. Imagine if he did not have that side of his persona as a candidate, the Pennsylvania guy, it very well may have been a Trump victory.
LEMON: Well, let's talk about something you said really quickly here before we have to get to the break and back to the vote count.
[02:55:00]
LEMON: When you look at -- you said Joe Biden is going to receive more votes than anyone in history, in American history, for president. And then you look at our process. Because this is all -- the reason we're talking about this is because of the Electoral College.
These states we're talking about, these battleground states, hold the key to whoever wins the presidency. And that means the person who got the most votes, maybe the most votes in American history, may not end up being the president.
Do we need to look at the way we elect presidents in this country?
BRINKLEY: Of course we do. And we always do at election time. And then we never change it. There's just never enough momentum.
The good news is that it looks like right now that the person who won the popular vote will become president. I think Democrats would be so disillusioned if they lost two in a row when they have the popular vote. But the Electoral College is antiquated but I'm afraid it's here for a while.
LEMON: Douglas Brinkley, our historian here at CNN, we appreciate it. Good luck to you. Stay calm.
BRINKLEY: Thanks, Don.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And that's good advice --
BRINKLEY: You're doing great, Don.
LEMON: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And that's the same advice for you folks at home. Stay calm. We've got you covered here. We'll be right back.
