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CNN Live Event/Special

Biden Takes Lead in Pennsylvania, on Verge of Presidency; Biden Lead Narrows in Arizona; GOP Asks Supreme Court to Block Late Votes in Pennsylvania; A Look at Trump's Legal Strategy; How the Biden Campaign is Handling Trump Election Challenges. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired November 06, 2020 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes, and we're watching this vote by vote as the votes come in.

We have reporters on both ends of the state of Pennsylvania where outstanding ballots remain. CNN's Kate Bolduan is in Philadelphia. CNN's Brian Todd is in Pittsburgh.

Let's start with Kate in Philadelphia.

Kate, what's the latest?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN HOST: Hey, there, Anderson. The counting continues. That is the latest we are hearing inside this convention center from Philadelphia election officials.

The latest is there will be updates to the count, 2,000 to 3,000 votes. But then that leaves 20,000 mail-in votes to still be counted.

That includes some of those mail-in ballots that have issues, that require an extra review, a secondary look, like date issues or signature issues, or simply could be overly creased and need to be fed into the machines manually.

On top of that, there's also 20,000, which is an estimate they're giving, 20,000 provisional ballots they will be looking at.

So that's the update on the count.

But that press conference that we had a couple hours ago left quite a few questions, Anderson, including how much longer will this counting take.

City officials, officials in charge of this election, they are not saying. The estimate they're giving is it could take several days to have them all counted.

And they say there's no problem to report in the process, but the process has definitely slowed. What they attribute it to is that this whole process with the ballots

that have issues, with the provisional ballots, it takes time.

This process has definitely slowed down -- Anderson?

COOPER: Just to be clear, the ballots you're talking about, the 20,000 mail-in ballots in Philadelphia, the 20,000 provisional ballots still to be counted, that is just for Philadelphia and the surrounding county, correct?

BOLDUAN: Yes, that is just for Philadelphia, Philadelphia County. And that also does not include the segregated ballots, the ballots received here after 8:00 p.m. on Election Day and can be received until today, the final day.

They're didn't offer a clear count in the press conference earlier. But we have been told previously they're looking at an estimate of 1,000 segregated ballots by the end of today.

But that's only for Philadelphia and Philadelphia County, the largest county in Pennsylvania, dealing with all these mail-in ballots still.

COOPER: Just for our viewers, provisional ballots are essential ballots of people who showed up on Election Day, there was some problem at the poll of finding their signature, something like that. They were allowed to vote.

Those votes are set aside to be rectified if necessary.

BOLDUAN: Yes, a perfect example of a provisional ballot would be they requested a mail-in, the ballots didn't arrive, so on Election Day, they show up to a polling place and said I'd like to vote.

You're giving a provisional ballot which is held until they check that you didn't vote by the mail-in ballot. It's a provisional ballot. They're reviewed. And then they will be counted if there's no issue with it.

But it's safe to assume with those 20,000 mail-in ballots, those provisional ballots that will be reviewed, not all of them will likely be counted.

COOPER: All right.

Kate Bolduan, appreciate it.

Let's go to Brian Todd, who is in Pittsburgh.

Brian, explain how many outstanding votes there are being counted where you were.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: About 35,000-plus outstanding votes are being counted and will be counted throughout the afternoon and possibly into tomorrow here in Allegheny County.

Where we are in Allegheny County, in Pittsburgh, in the western part of the state, and where Kate is in Philadelphia, those counties around here, that's the ball game in Philadelphia.

This is where Joe Biden will try to drive up the margins and possibly put himself over the top in Pennsylvania.

We spoke to the county executive of Allegheny County, Rich Fitzgerald. He said they're gone though so far about 3,000, counted about 3,000 of the 35,000-plus ballots they have to go through.

He did not give us results. He's promises to us those maybe in about two and half hours. Those first results will start trickling in about then.

But he said they are going to work through the night. They're committed to staying here. They're at least work until last tonight, possibly into early tomorrow morning.

And they really are committed to drive this through and get this down.

We talk about transparency and what observers will get access to at these places here in eastern Pennsylvania and other states.

What's cool about this is we're getting great access. This is the elections warehouse in Pittsburgh. This is where all the counting for the mail-in battle for Allegheny County is being done.

[14:35:07]

These are ballots mailed before Election Day, on Election Day, and some got here after.

So I'm going to have my photojournalist zoom past me here. These election poll workers are getting briefed on the next round of ballots they'll be counting.

They just counted some damaged ballots, a little over 2,000 of those. Then they'll start to count about 3,000 or more ballots from military members and overseas voters. That's what they're about to do right now.

We're talking about transparency. In the foreground, these people are observers. These are bipartisan observers who have between looking over counters' shoulders all day long. They'll be doing that throughout the night.

Talk about transparency, the county executive, Rich Fitzgerald, told us they have cameras everywhere.

Jay is going to zoom over to those screens.

You can see they've got cameras over the shoulders of a lot of these stations, including where they're storing them, where they're counting them, processing other votes.

Look at those screens right there. They have cameras all over this room.

So you talk about access to the count, observers being allowed close to where they're counting. That's all happening here.

Rich Fitzgerald, the country executive, told us a short time ago they've had no complaints, no problems with anomalies, anything like that.

Right here is where we have observed, just inches from where I'm standing -- they're taking a break right now -- but these people are counting damaged ballots and observers were like five feet behind them, just behind the fences there.

So a lot of access, a lot of transparency here. It seems to be working well.

It's a slow slog. Kate was talking to you about that in Philadelphia. It takes time. They have to open these ballots, check for anomalies, make sure they're above board.

They've got 35,000-plus to go through. They say they'll go overnight, possibly into tomorrow. So we'll start to get some results trickling in, in a couple hours, hopefully.

And hopefully, we'll bring those to you tonight, tomorrow morning. We'll see what the final count here in Allegheny County, which is a crucial county here for Joe Biden.

He spent a lot of time here, Anderson, in the latter stages of his campaign.

COOPER: Yes. It's good to see just how close those observers in Allegheny County, in Pittsburgh are, allowed to get to watch, how closely they are, just about five feet, as you said.

Brian Todd, appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Right now, on where the race stands and how it got that way, let's go to Phil Mattingly.

The margin just got a little bit tighter in Arizona, I believe. Is that right?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's underscoring the fact that this is a live ball in several states right now.

Joe Biden has a lead in several states, but Arizona is one of those places where, unlike Pennsylvania, unlike what we saw over the course of the morning in Georgia, the lead is actually narrowing.

Right now, Joe Biden, round up with 50 percent to 49 percent, 41302. The big question is: Is there enough vote outstand for President Trump to catch up?

COOPER: And the lead has been shrinking a little bit in drips and drabs as more votes are counted?

MATTINGLY: Yes, it shrank substantially over the course of about a 24- hour period. Now it's starting to shrink a little bit less.

However, President Trump, if you were trying to gauge where things stand right now, the vote that came in, came in from Mojave County.

I want to pull this out on where things stand. What we know about what came in from this vote is President Trump got 3,171 votes. Joe Biden got 694.

From a percentage perspective, President Trump is a little over 80 percent, Joe Biden at 17.5 percent.

A couple things to put in as you look at the top line. President Trump making up about 2,477 votes here.

But the bigger issue is Mojave County is about 3 percent of the population, but this is not where the outstanding voting is.

This is a Republican count. Look at the margin. You expect that margin to be higher when that vote comes in.

The big outstanding question and what everybody in the campaigns is looking right now is Maricopa County. Largest county in the state, about 60 percent of the voting population. We know there's roughly 142,000 votes outstanding for Maricopa.

Here's where it gets dicier for the Trump campaign. The last batch of votes that came in for Maricopa, President Trump had a lead in that batch of votes, but it wasn't the type of lead he needed.

I'm trying to say here is President Trump needs to be hitting a specific ratio -- a specific margin every time votes come from, especially large batches of votes from counties like Maricopa to have an opportunity to close this gap.

This gap right now he's falling short of that a little bit.

What he had in Mojave is good. And 80 percent would be great. If he could do 80 percent in Maricopa, he's not just in the ball game, he's on track. But he hasn't been based on the most recent in the largest county.

That's what we're keeping an eye on, where those 142,000 votes come in from Maricopa. That's the ball game.

[14:40:03]

COOPER: In Maricopa, what is the difference between them, generally?

(CROSSTALK)

MATTINGLY: This is the interesting thing. What we've been seeing in Pennsylvania and Georgia is the late vote was all counted as mail-in. And it was leaning so heavily Democratic, Joe Biden has been making up huge margins repeatedly over the course of the last 24 hours.

Arizona has been a bit different. Maricopa, the mix of the composition of the vote that comes in, in terms of when it was dropped off or mailed in, Maricopa, while Joe Biden is leading now in Maricopa, you can flash back to 2016 and get a sense of the county.

Again, largest county in the state, 60 percent of the population. Donald Trump won this county back in 2016. It has been moving towards Democrats. Home to Phoenix, push out into the suburbs, shifts in the demographics as well.

But even though Joe Biden is leading right now, President Trump needs to do better than this. He needs to be hitting somewhere between 53 and 54 percent in everything that comes from here on out.

In the last batch, he was not able to do that.

So you're looking at Mojave numbers in the Trump campaign. You're very happy with those.

But the real ball game is Maricopa. And today, Maricopa, so far, has not done enough for President Trump.

COOPER: With 142,000 votes outstanding, it is within the realm of possibility this batch of 142,000 will radically favorite President Trump, but if the recent example is any indication, I mean, the odds are it will be similar to this current --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MATTINGLY: Yes, I think that's a great way to put it. We don't know the composition of the vote, Republican or Democrat. We have a decent idea of registration and where it stands right now.

We know the Trump campaign felt like the late votes gave they have a chance. But from talking to two Republicans in the state, the last batch that came out, he missed his margin. They were pretty down after the last batch that came down.

It would be a heavy, heavy lift for him to close the gap. But they're still counting. There's still votes outstanding. There are areas for President Trump to pick up. We'll see if he has the time or runs out.

COOPER: With 142,000 uncounted ballots in Maricopa, that is the biggest batch of votes left.

MATTINGLY: To simplify it, that's the ball game . Whatever margin President Trump gets in what's remaining in Maricopa will decide whether or not he has a chance.

As I said, based on the last batch, both sides have been saying this seems to be heading Biden's direction. However, we'll count the votes, see how it comes in. We'll wait and see as those votes come in.

COOPER: All right. We'll have more, Phil, shortly. We'll keep counting the votes here.

Let's go to Erin.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: All right, Anderson.

We have news just coming in. Republicans in Pennsylvania are seeking more relief from the Supreme Court related to these ballots that were cast, received after Election Day.

Let's get to our Pamela Brown with the latest.

Pam, what is this? What does it mean?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: This has been an area under dispute for a while now, Erin. Now lawyers for Republicans in Pennsylvania have gone back to the Supreme Court.

What they're asking right now is for the high court to, quote, "log, segregate and otherwise not take any action for ballots receive after the Election Day."

They essentially want the Supreme Court to weigh in and order Pennsylvania to not include those late-arriving ballots, including today, to be counted toward the vote totals.

What they're doing is citing the secretary of state's guidance as the idea of why this order needs to happen.

They point out initially the secretary of state in Pennsylvania released guidance saying that they are late-arriving ballots in Pennsylvania that were sent by Election Day but arrived after would be segregated.

She updated that guidance before the election and said they could be segregated and counted but not go to the vote total.

What we're seeing with the vote totals, my understanding, is it does not include the late-arriving ballots. In places like Philadelphia, they separate them, and put them in shrink wrap and mark them for security reason.

So that's what you're seeing in some of these counties.

But Republicans are not convinced that this is happening across the board in the state.

BURNETT: Right.

BROWN: That's why they want the Supreme Court to weight in for this order.

BURNETT: So let me, Pam, a sense of where we are in terms of the significance of this. You look at the margin in the state. Obviously, there's plenty of votes still outstanding, 13,662 in favor of Biden.

How many ballots were received after Election Day? My understanding it's somewhere in the order 2,000 to 3,000. So it's a much smaller number --

BROWN: Right. BURNETT: -- than we're actually talking about here, correct?

BROWN: Right. That's absolutely right. The secretary of state has said that number is marginal. In other words, it will not determine the outcome.

The Republicans in this argument to the Supreme Court, they said otherwise.

This is what they said, "Given the results of the November 3rd election, the vote in Pennsylvania may well determine the next president. And it is currently unclear whether all 67 county boards of election are segregating late-arriving ballots."

But that aside, you're right. It's a small amount, according to the secretary of state, compared to the valid mail-in ballots that did arrive by Election Day, the provisional ballots and the military ballots.

[14:45:03]

So this is -- this appears to be part of this overall legal strategy we're seeing from Republicans and from the Trump campaign to file various lawsuits to muddy the waters on issues on lawsuits that really aren't going to move the needle very much in their favor really.

BURNETT: Pam, thank you very much.

I think it's important what Pam said, as we try to de-muddy the water when we can, that the vote total there, at least in terms of what we're looking at now, right now, the margin is about 13,600 votes between Biden and Trump.

If 35,000 are still outstanding in Allegheny County are still be counted, that 2,500 to 3,000 at this point does not seem like something that will move the needle.

But it is part of the strategy we're seeing from this White House. And we have some developments on the front in terms of the legal strategy.

Let's go to our own Jim Acosta.

What are you learning, Jim?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Erin, I think the big headline coming out of the White House is that the president is digging in.

He is telling people around him that he would like to see these challenges of the count in these various states to continue perhaps into December, when the electors would certify their votes for president in these various states.

That has the potential to drag this out for several more weeks.

Now, obviously, these states are going to certify the results. Pass them on to news organizations and so on, and we'll be able to report who we believe to be the winner in these various states.

But the president is not accepting that at this point. He's telling people around him that he wants to fight this out for a few more weeks.

I will tell you, talking to my sources, Erin, there are many people around the president who think it's just over.

I talked to a senior adviser to this White House, who told me earlier today, it's over for the president.

But at the same time, they have to be delicate about this because he has the biggest megaphone of all. And they're trying to be careful to not disturb the delicate bird, if you will.

I'll also tell you, talking to my sources, there are people inside the Trump campaign and inside the White House that are quietly backing away from the president.

They're mindful of the fact that what happened last night was an absolute disaster for the president. He offered no evidence to back up the claims of election fraud and so on.

And there are people nervous inside the White House, nervous inside the campaign that he is simply going too far.

And at this point, you're going to see perhaps some officials not running to get behind the president, to stand behind him at some press conferences that he may have over the next several days.

Erin, I think the sense I'm getting from people over here is the president wants to fight this out. But not everybody is on board with this.

The other question that's been raised from people I'm talking to inside the campaign is there's just a lot of concern about the voices the president is sending out, people like Rudy Giuliani, people like Pam Bondi, people like Corey Lewandowski.

They're not seen as people who will calm down sine of these folks inside the Republican Party, elected officials inside the Republican Party, who are raising questions about the president's concerns.

I was told by a senior adviser that there are some people inside the campaign, inside the White House who would like to see more credible voices out there speaking on the president's behalf, making these kinds of claims.

So for now, it sounds like the president is not in any mood to concede. He wants to drag this out. He wants to dig in his heels right now.

BURNETT: Yes.

ACOSTA: And that is what he's instructing aides to do -- Erin?

BURNETT: All right, Jim, thank you very much.

So what does this mean? How long does something like this go? And does it have any chance of changing anything in the outcome?

Rich Pildes is with me, along with Franita Tolson, both election law experts.

Rich, let me start with you with this breaking news out of Pennsylvania. State Republicans going to the Supreme Court and saying they want to make sure these ballots are segregated.

I was trying to give a sense of the gap, the size of the ballots. It's about 2,500 to 3,000 of them, which is much smaller than the margin is right now between the two in the state. And that margin, of course, is going to change.

When you look at it as, is this something that is legitimate and can move the needing, where do you fall?

RICHARD PILDES, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: It definitely can't move the needle according to all current appearances.

You can understand why, as a form of insurance, they're going to pursue these claims, if they think there's any possibility those ballots could make a difference.

But we knew that these would be a very small number. We're getting data on that now. They seem to be an incredibly small number.

It doesn't look like they're possibly going to affect the margin of the outcome in Pennsylvania.

So, even if the legal claim prevails -- and I think it's a plausible claim with this Supreme Court. It could be accepted on the merits by the court. The number of ballots here is not significant.

BURNETT: And that is important.

So, Franita, what about when you look at the strategy, as Jim is saying, right now, is sort of like spaghetti, take it and throw it against the wall legally, just try absolutely everything you can.

[14:50:09]

Do you see everything right now that's both legitimate and could move the needle?

FRANITA TOLSON, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: Does it have to be both legitimate and move the needle, Erin?

If you look at the legal strategy, it's hard to understand. I don't see anything happen now that will change the trajectory of this race.

For example, the Trump campaign brought a lawsuit in Georgia, where they accused a poll worker of commingling ballots, unprocessed absentee ballots with processed absentee ballots. A judge threw that out.

They brought litigation in Pennsylvania and Michigan arguing their observers should be able to get closer to monitory the vote count. OK, fine, it doesn't change everything.

It just seems the Trump campaign is trying everything that they can in order to cast doubt on the outcome of this election when, in fact, this litigation does nothing to change the trajectory of the race.

BURNETT: Richard, right now, since we're looking at a ballot cam, I want to make a point with that. The president is trying to say this is being done in secret, it's hidden, it's corrupt, all the words he's used.

Yet, we've shown again and again these ballot cams. We just saw out in Allegheny County, ballot cams, people standing five feet away, able to look over everything that is being done.

The concept this is not being done in a transparent manner is completely and utterly false.

PILDES: Yes, it's a great thing we have, all this transparency. Transparency is what helps show people that sinister stories actually aren't true.

And so I'm amazed that public officials in some of these places have done this job of actually putting web cams in there.

It's about as interesting as watching paint dry. I have watched some of these.

But you can sit there and actually watch the election officials processing these ballots.

And, of course, as you saw, there are observers from both parties in those sites being able to monitor what's happening. So we have a great deal of transparency.

You know, there are some arguments at the margins, that Pennsylvania appellate court accepted a complaint from the Trump campaign that they should have a little more access. I think that's been given at this point.

But overall, we are running an incredibly transparent election process. And you can see it on the screens right there.

BURNETT: It's incredible for the whole world to see that we are able to show these things and do these things. It's so important. And obviously with these false claims being alleged, so important that we can all see it.

Thank you both very much.

How is the Biden campaign handling these legal challenges right now?

Jeff Zeleny is with the Biden campaign in Wilmington where the former vice president is preparing to make an address tonight.

What is their response, Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Erin, it's so interesting. After going through a long campaign of the Biden campaign responding bit by bit to everything the president said, they are taking a moment of calm.

And not responding litigation by litigation because they believe there's no merit to all of these claims. And they believe it simply would give it oxygen.

What they are doing instead is looking ahead.

As you said, the former vice president is scheduled to give an address here to the nation this evening from Wilmington.

He's going to, I'm told, really going to continue some of those themes.

And his first test is tonight. He ran on a pledge of unifying the country. So his first test is doing that in a post-election period.

I just spoke a few moments ago with a very close and long-time friend of the vice president, Senator Chris Coons, from right here in Delaware.

He said he believes the former vice president will take a bit of time and a bit of patience for Republicans and for the president to accept the reality of this election if it turns out to be that President Trump is not successful here.

He said this to me. He said he "recognizes the healing the country is going to need. It's going to be very, very hard. I think he will be patient."

So the question is how patient and how long will that go.

Since we are coming up on a Friday evening here, going through the weekend, it's the hope of allies of Joe Biden that, come Monday, come next week, if they're still locked in the same position, that party elders and Republicans and others begin speaking out about the need to move on and focus on coronavirus, focus on the deep challenges facing the country here.

So this is a bit of a first test for Joe Biden in his ability to unify the country here.

Obviously, you know, some of it is out of his hands. But how he handles his transition, his speech tonight --

BURNETT: Yes.

ZELENY: -- will really set the tone for that going forward.

So that is certainly interesting. Also, if the race is not called by this evening, will the speech happen? Aides have not answered those questions, Erin.

BURNETT: Yes --

(CROSSTALK)

ZELENY: As of now, they're planning on a speech in prime time tonight.

BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Jeff Zeleny.

[14:54:52]

And we are waiting for a press conference out of Georgia. All eyes on Georgia. We know there will be a recount. That's coming up, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: There's a lot going on in a lot of different places, and we're watching it all.

We're waiting to hear from election officials in Georgia, with the race there razor thin. And the president is tweeting about ballots there. That and new votes coming in.

All the close races you see there on the right of your screen.

[15:00:01]

Let's start with Phil Mattingly.

A number of tight races that are important to look at right now. What do you want to show us?

MATTINGLY: First, let's look at the big picture. Obviously, we're paying attention to Pennsylvania.