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CNN Live Event/Special
New Votes Coming In From Arizona; Biden Closes In On Presidency As Lead In Pennsylvania Grows To 27K Votes; Biden To Speak Soon In Wilmington As Vote Count Continues. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired November 06, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: New vote totals are about to drop in the state's largest county. Whatever happens tonight, we're nearing the homestretch of this election.
Biden needs only 17 more electoral votes to get the - to the winning number of 270. Trump is stalled at 213, and hard-pressed, very hard- pressed, to find a way forward.
Let's get a key race alert right now.
And Arizona, where it could be very dramatic moments from now, we're expecting lots of votes to come in. Joe Biden maintains his lead right now. He's got a lead of 36,816 votes over Donald Trump, 49.8 percent to 48 percent. 94 percent of the estimated vote is in. Arizona has 11 electoral votes.
Bill Weir is joining us now from Phoenix.
Bill, we're about to get a lot of numbers, I take it, in Phoenix. Looks like you're--
BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
BLITZER: --beginning to count. I know you're great in math. Update our viewers.
WEIR: No, I proved that I'm not last night, Wolf. So, I got the calculator this time. Joe Biden picks up 31,000 votes out of Maricopa County with this new dump. And let's see here. Donald Trump, 950,503 minus 912,115 equals 38,000.
So, it's not the kind of blowup that the President was hoping on as he chips away. He's been chipping away at Joe Biden's lead here in Arizona like with a rock hammer. What he needs is dynamite, and this is not it.
And this means there's probably one more big information dump tomorrow, at 70,000 or so votes remaining here, in Maricopa County. Again, the differences on these guys, Joe Biden holds on to his lead in a way that it probably makes him sleep a little bit better tonight, Wolf.
BLITZER: Yes. But it looks very, very good, at least the votes coming in right now. Bill Weir, stand by over there.
John King?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
BLITZER: You wrote down the numbers. 38,000, approximately--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --for the President, 31,000 for Biden.
KING: And we just saw the numbers change right there. That's 7,000 votes, right? That's 7,000 votes. So, Bill Weir is right. The President needs a big body blow, but he's chipping away. He's chipping away. Biden's lead is now down to 29,861. That's statewide.
I just want to come in, to Maricopa County, to show what has happened, here, when you add in, these new numbers here, it's 51 percent to 48 percent. And Maricopa County is 60 percent of the vote statewide. So, those numbers are very significant.
And again, Bill is asking the right question, which is, we have seen repeatedly, again, Maricopa County is blue, but it's highly competitive.
President Trump carried it four years ago. It is increasingly leading to the - leaning to the Democrat suburbs because of the revolt against President Trump in the suburbs. But he's getting fair amount of votes here.
So, the question is, is it enough, right? Is it enough? Is this trajectory in Arizona enough for the President to catch up?
I'm just going to pull out the notes, so I can find from this morning. I mean, Joe Biden's lead, there, has been going down throughout the day. The question is is it going down enough, right? This is chipping away.
And again, we're counting the votes everywhere. So, the President is complaining about what's happening in other states. This is a state where, as they count more votes, he has been slowly narrowing the gap, modestly.
That's 7,000 votes in one dump of votes. The question is, you're up to 97 percent of the vote in now, are there enough to chip it away further?
BLITZER: Biden still has a nearly 30,000-vote lead right now.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: So, the question is how many votes are actually still outstanding, and how many votes, and when we get that count, we're probably not going to get it tonight.
KING: Right. BLITZER: We'll probably get it tomorrow.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: At some point. But he still has a 30,000 - nearly a 30,000- vote lead.
KING: He does, but he had a 47,000-vote lead at 9 A.M. this morning. And so, again, you're running - you're starting to run out of votes to count. So, if you're in the Biden campaign, you're "You know, can we get this over with?" because every time more votes come out, it's coming down some.
But you started the day at 47,000 ahead. Now you're inside of 30,000 ahead. That doesn't mean that continues. And again, Maricopa County is competitive. This is where the bulk of the votes is, the key question is when do they get to the finish line?
BLITZER: We're told that tomorrow we should get another 65,000 vote count--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --out of Maricopa. That's - that's right there.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: So, we'll see what that - what that is, what the result is. But it's going to be hard, I suspect, even with 65,000 votes coming in.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: Unless Trump does incredibly well, to narrow down that nearly 30,000-vote lead that Biden has.
KING: Yes. To your point, you mentioned, you know, so you're going to get it slightly bigger than this. And so, this would not be good enough. This would not be good enough.
Again, if you're just looking at one installment, if you're a Trump supporter, you say, "Great! Great! Look at that. We made up 7,000 votes." But this is, you know, this is, right there, this, you got 69,000 right here. And so, if you get - if you get 60,000-something tomorrow, and the President does the same thing, he'll make it closer, but close doesn't count.
BLITZER: Now, you're beginning to appreciate - I think our viewers are beginning to appreciate--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --why CNN has not projected Arizona over these past few days. Others have.
KING: Others have. And again, in the end that may prove right. I get their math in my head. However, the President has made steady progress, again, 47,000 votes this morning. The Presidency of the United States is at stake here.
[21:05:00]
There's a couple of ways Joe Biden can get there. Arizona and Nevada would get him to the finish line right there. And so, if you make these calls, or these projections, you're making a statement that you're certain.
And I've - I've done - crunched these numbers myself off-camera. The likelihood is that Joe Biden holds on. But likelihood doesn't matter. Let's count votes, why not, right?
And again, let's be fair to the President of the United States. He is making up ground here. This is 7,000. This is not a road - rate of growth that's enough. He needs to do better. If the President is going to catch up, the next batch of votes comes in, he needs a more lopsided advantage. But he's making up ground.
BLITZER: He would need a huge advantage.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: If 65,000 votes--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --are still to be counted in Arizona, it would be an incredible lopsided vote--
KING: Absolutely.
BLITZER: --for the President in order for Biden to lose that lead.
KING: Right. And so, statistically, it is unlikely because, as you see, they're roughly splitting the vote right now, and the President would need, quantitatively, more than that to do it. However, the trend lines have been in his way. And so, it's sort of a simple posture, what's the harm in counting the votes.
BLITZER: And you're like - and you made this point several times, John. The President sees Arizona. And they're counting and counting. He says, "Great! Keep on counting these votes."
KING: Right.
BLITZER: Because the lead is diminishing for Biden. In other states, where his lead is diminishing, he doesn't like counting the votes.
KING: No, the President has said this himself. So, I'm just quoting him essentially back. He essentially says, "You know, if I don't win, there's cheating." That's his position on democracy. It's not the way it works.
BLITZER: Not a good-- KING: Yes.
BLITZER: --not a good position.
KING: Right, right.
BLITZER: Arizona, right now, remember, Arizona, 11 electoral votes.
KING: Yes.
BLITZER: And as you point out, Arizona and Nevada alone, just those two states would put Biden over the top.
Let's go to Pennsylvania right now, because Pennsylvania has 20 - Pennsylvania alone would put Biden over the top as well.
KING: Right. And this is the flip side. I just told you, one reason we're being cautious about Arizona is Joe Biden begins the day with a 47,000-vote lead. Now it is shrinking.
Well, Joe Biden began the day with a modest lead in Pennsylvania, 5,000 votes and change, I think 5,500 it was. Now, he's up to 21,705.
And if you go way back, Tuesday into Wednesday, the President's lead here was over a half million votes. Why? Because they counted people who voted on Election Day first, that was the President's support.
They're counting mail-in ballots last, and that has trickled in over the last 24 hours, now 48 hours. And over those hours, Joe Biden has not only caught up to the President, but now passed him, and we've just got - we went through three counties in the last hour.
Throughout the day, we've had smattering of votes come in, 2,000 here, 5,000 here, sometimes, 10,000, here. And just about every time, there have been one or two occasions in these small rural counties, where the President gets a few more votes than Joe Biden, but this has been just a methodical build.
And again, 3.3 million to 3 - 3.32 million to 3.30 million, so you just look at 21,700 votes, that's not enormous. It's not. But it's a lead, and it has been a steadily growing lead throughout the day.
And we're still waiting. I believe it's about 100,000 ballots, maybe a little shy of that now because some ballots have come in, in the last couple of hours, still to be counted in Pennsylvania.
BLITZER: It would be very difficult for Trump with, let's say, 100,000 ballots out there.
KING: Right.
BLITZER: The fact that Biden has been doing so well, especially with the mail-in ballots, it would be very difficult for Trump to overcome that lead that Biden now has in Pennsylvania.
KING: Correct. Two sets of ballots left. One, we know are, mail-in ballots. There's just no doubt. We've been through this now. We're on our third day of counting the mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania, and Joe Biden consistently runs up big numbers there.
There is also a separate subset of approximately 100,000 so-called provisional ballots that, for whatever reason, people requested a mail ballot then showed up at a polling place.
They showed up at a polling place, their address didn't match. The poll workers give you a ballot. You fill it out. And then they just double-check and triple-check to make sure you didn't vote twice, to make sure you're in the right place.
That happens after every election. It's getting a lot of attention in Pennsylvania, right now, and in other states, because these margins are relatively close.
And so, you have the mail-in ballots that they're counting. We might - we may get more of those tonight. And then, there's, provisional ballots which they're counting, and I believe there's two separate pools of about 100,000 votes.
BLITZER: Yes. So, still a significant number of votes. But our people are looking very, very closely at Pennsylvania right now to see whether or not it looks like it's almost impossible for Trump to overcome that lead that Biden has right now, that would enable CNN to make a projection.
KING: Right. And the Biden camp certainly feels that way. And again, both of the campaigns, we know what we know. They have people on the ground. They have their own data analytics teams. They know, in many cases, whose ballots are waiting to be counted.
And we also just know from the empirical evidence and the math we've done in the last few days, again, in the mail-in balloting, Joe Biden is winning by an overwhelming margin. That's why the Biden campaign is convinced that that lead is going to grow to the point where it is insurmountable.
BLITZER: The 21,700 vote lead that Biden has over Trump, right now, just show us what Trump's lead over Hillary Clinton was--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --four years ago, some context, some perspective.
KING: Right. The Biden lead, right now, is about half, right, 44,000.
Donald Trump carried Pennsylvania. And again, look how close it was, 49 percent, if you round up, to 48 percent, if you round up. This, again, we call them battleground states for a reason, an incredibly competitive race in Pennsylvania four years ago. President was 2.97 million votes. Hillary Clinton was 2.92 million votes.
[21:10:00]
I mean, it's remarkable, the high turnout in this race. 44,292 then. The Biden lead right now is 21,705. And the expectation, in the Biden camp, is that it will grow, and it'd probably grow to about the 40,000 or more that the President won by four years ago.
BLITZER: We spoke with a Democratic Senator Bob Casey, a few times, over the past few days. He thinks it could grow to as much as a 100,000-vote lead.
KING: He does. He is quite confident, not only about the remaining mail-in ballots to be counted, but about the provisional ballots to be counted. He believes that there won't be a big difference in terms of the percentages there.
We're waiting for them to count the provisional ballots. It's one of the reasons you wait is you want to see at least a sample of those provisional ballots to be counted, from different places, around the state, so that you can say, "OK, it matches up with what we saw in the other sets of ballots," because the provisional ballots are different, and we haven't - because they count them last, we haven't seen a sample yet.
We know, in the mail-in ballots, because it's just been overwhelming, Joe Biden is winning by convincing margins in the mail-in ballots. We know that because we have seen it. So now you know it is statistically valid to project those ballots, because we've seen it now over three days.
The provisional ballots haven't been touched yet. When we get a sample, we'll have a better idea.
BLITZER: I love the fact that they're not only counting the provisional ballots, the mail-in ballots, the day-of ballots, but Americans living abroad, they're going to count those votes.
And U.S. Military personnel, living all over the world, they can vote, in their home state of Pennsylvania, and those votes are going to be important as well.
KING: Right. And they're always counted. They're always counted, as they should be.
Those serving in uniform around the world, or just Americans living overseas, the Americans serving in embassies, or Americans who work for international companies overseas, their ballots, of course, should be counted. They don't always get as much attention, if a race isn't close.
If a race isn't close, if that's a - if that's an 80,000-vote lead, and we know there are 1,000 ballots or 2,000 ballots, coming in from overseas, not that they're not important, and they don't figure into the math, but they're not going to determine who the winner is.
BLITZER: Our friend, the Secretary of State of Arizona, Katie Hobbs, is joining us right now.
Secretary thanks so much for joining us. As you probably heard, Bill Weir got the numbers. Now we just got about 70,000 new votes from Maricopa County, the largest county in Arizona.
How many votes are left out there, how many votes do you still need to count?
KATIE HOBBS, ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE: So statewide, 173,000. Maricopa has 92,000.
BLITZER: A 173,000 votes still need to be counted. And of that, Maricopa, what did you say?
HOBBS: 92,000.
BLITZER: Now, does that include the number we just had? The nearly 70,000 votes that we just reported?
HOBBS: No. That does not include those.
BLITZER: That's separate?
HOBBS: Right.
BLITZER: Does that include the provisional ballots?
HOBBS: Yes. That includes provisional ballots.
Total statewide, there are about 47,000 provisional ballots. We can't count those until Tuesday, because counties have five business days to resolve those, and make sure that they're eligible to be counted.
And so, at the end of the day, not all of those provisional ballots actually will be counted, because they're not all going to be eligible voters.
BLITZER: So, there's - so just to confirm, just review the numbers one more time, I want to make sure we have it right.
HOBBS: Yes. A 173,000 ballots statewide. 92,000 ballots in Maricopa County. And that includes 47,000 provisional ballots, which we won't count until Wednesday, and not all of those will actually end up being counted.
BLITZER: So, there's fill-ins (ph) as far as regular ballots, what, about 126,000, is that what you're saying?
HOBBS: Yes.
BLITZER: And when do you think we'll get those numbers?
HOBBS: We should, I think, get most of them by tomorrow, if not Sunday.
BLITZER: Do you think we're going to get any more tonight?
HOBBS: Maricopa usually would have let us know that by now, and they haven't, so I don't think so.
BLITZER: Because Maricopa is the largest county.
HOBBS: I do know they're--
BLITZER: Yes.
HOBBS: They're counting around the clock.
BLITZER: John King has a question for you, Secretary.
KING: Just in the sense as--
HOBBS: Thank you.
KING: --as you've watched the trajectory here, the provisional ballots, we're dealing with the same issue in Pennsylvania, so I just want to make sure that I'm describing them correctly.
These are people who either maybe requested a mail-in ballot, and didn't get it, or were afraid to put it in the mail, so they show up to vote, and people give them a provisional ballot. You just need to check the books to make sure they didn't vote twice.
Or they show up, and maybe they moved, or maybe they're new to your State, and somebody says, "Well you're not from this polling place," so they give them a provisional ballot, and then they just check again, to try to find them.
Is that correct? Am I describing those correctly, things like that?
HOBBS: Yes, for the most part. Also, if somebody comes, and they don't have the right ID with them, they would vote a conditional provisional ballot, and then they have to go back, and show their ID, before that ballot can be counted.
BLITZER: Do you have any reason to believe, Secretary that the provisional ballots could cut the lead that Biden right now has?
HOBBS: Well, provisional ballots tend to skew Democratic, for the most part, in - if you look at Arizona's history.
So, I don't - I really am not comfortable speculating what they're going to look like this year because honestly, nothing in terms of voting patterns has gone according to what we've seen in the past.
BLITZER: And most of these ballots, you say, are coming from Maricopa County?
[21:15:00]
HOBBS: Yes, there's about 15,000 or 16,000 provisional ballots in Maricopa County, and about 18,000 provisional ballots in Pima County.
BLITZER: What about military ballots and Americans living abroad?
HOBBS: Yes, we don't - they're not - those aren't separated out. We'll know that number towards the end of the month. BLITZER: Oh, really? So, that's going to be a while, to get those
numbers in.
What's good, Secretary, you're counting all these ballots. We appreciate that very, very much. These elections have consequences, and we're grateful to you and your team, once again, for what you're doing.
Katie Hobbs is the Secretary of State of Arizona, thanks so much for joining us.
All right, John, so that's - that's the latest from Arizona. It's an important state, a 11 electoral votes.
KING: Right. And just key - she said this is the biggest county, and those provisional ballots, probably both of those - some of those won't be counted. So, this number in Maricopa County, what we're looking for next, is about half that, all right, about half that are ballots that we know are legitimate ballots to be counted.
Then, the question is, as she noted, in historically, provisional ballots have skewed Democratic in Arizona. She was reluctant to make that prediction this time just because it's such an unusual election because of the COVID pandemic, and people voting in different ways.
But again, if you're inside the campaigns, you know if you're the Trump campaign, you got to win an enormous percentage of these votes, to catch up, even though it doesn't look like a giant lead, when you're getting - when you're at the numbers of remaining ballots, right now. But we'll see. We'll keep counting them.
BLITZER: We just got 70,000 votes in from Arizona.
KING: Yes.
BLITZER: Biden's lead went down a bit, 29,861. We'll watching Arizona, watching all these states.
Jake, back to you.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Thanks, Wolf.
And I know there are a lot of viewers out there, who are frustrated that we are not calling these states. And, just to remind you, we are just waiting for the data to justify confidence in projecting this.
This is very high stakes. It's very important that the people in the media and the people in the election centers get it right. And that is what people are trying to do.
And, of course, you at home, whether you're rooting for Donald Trump or Joe Biden, you want an answer, you want to know. It's been dragging on for a long time. We get it. We hear you. We just want to make sure we get it right.
Some people might remember, in 2000, when the media awarded the State of Florida to George W. Bush, Al Gore saw that, conceded, and then people in the media retracted Florida, and Al Gore had to call George W. Bush, and retract his concession.
No one wants to go through that again. Everyone in the media wants to get it right. But, of course, you're frustrated. Imagine how the two men running for President feel! Let's check in with them.
Let's start with Arlette Saenz, who is covering the Biden campaign. And she is in Wilmington, Delaware.
And Arlette, Joe Biden and his team thought by now that major media organizations were going to have called this race, and he was planning to give a speech tonight. What is he planning to do now?
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, Joe Biden is still expected to speak tonight, regardless of whether this race has been called.
Aides, early in the day, were hopeful that the race would be called in Joe Biden's favor today. But they have now recognized the reality that that is not going to happen for a little bit longer, potentially.
And so, we are still waiting to hear what exactly the format of Joe Biden's speech tonight will be, whether it will be here at the Chase Center.
And the speech is likely not to declare victory in any way, but to talk about the current state of the race, and his growing lead that he has seen in states like Pennsylvania, a state that is very personal to Joe Biden.
He also, over the course of the past day, it was a little - almost 29 hours ago that we last heard from Joe Biden. He urged that people stay calm and patient as this vote count plays out.
And that is something that we are seeing the campaign lean on again today. They are very eager for a call but they are having to practice patience, as the counting continues, as they are still waiting to hear, whether they will top, officially, that 270 electoral votes, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Arlette Saenz, thank you so much.
And again, the Democratic officials, and Republican officials, and campaign officials with whom we and our reporters have all been speaking, especially the Democrats, in Pennsylvania, and Arizona, and Nevada, all do expect that they will be happy when the count is over.
Georgia is another question because that is likely headed to a recount. We knew that the race in Arizona was going to tighten.
[21:20:00]
We've said that to you yesterday. And now, it has, in fact tightened, and Donald Trump has built up his vote count there. And you just saw him net about 7,000 votes. But this does not mean that anything huge is going to change in terms of the trajectory of these races.
That said there is still hope on the Trump side of things. And Donald Trump, President Trump, is at the White House right now, and he's asking questions about how things are being handled by his team.
Let's bring in Kaitlan Collins, who is covering the White House for us.
And Kaitlan, what are you hearing about, what President Trump wants? What is his latest grievance?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a good question, Jake.
Of course, we've heard all day that the President has been pretty angry, pretty frustrated, as he's watching these numbers come in, watching Joe Biden edge closer to the presidency.
But on what you just said about Arizona, I'm just looking at what I tweeted a few days ago. Trump campaign officials told us, on the record, they expect to win Arizona by 30,000 votes. Of course, we have seen how that margin has changed there.
But the question of whether or not the President is going to get 30,000 votes ahead of Biden is going to raise a lot of questions about the math that the Trump campaign has been doing behind the scenes. So we'll see where that ends up. They're certainly still watching it.
But Jake, something else that we are now reporting on tonight, as you may have noticed, that the paid government spokespeople for the President have all but disappeared from the airwaves since Tuesday.
And we are now told that's for a reason, because White House attorneys advised White House spokespeople, these - and government - other government officials that they, should not be going and commenting on the drama that has been unfolding, surrounding the election, because they are concerned it will violate the Hatch Act.
Of course that law that prohibits federal government employees, from engaging in political activities, while they're acting in their official capacity, something that the Trump Administration has widely dismissed, something maybe they've--
TAPPER: OK.
COLLINS: --mocked at times, with people like Kellyanne Conway.
But it's interesting because the President likes to have his surrogates on TV, defending him, touting his accomplishments. And it's noticeable this week that you have not seen people from the White House.
The only people who have done appearances, Kayleigh McEnany did one, acting as a Trump 2020 Campaign Adviser, and we saw his Economic Adviser Larry Kudlow do another appearance today. But Jake, that is so rare, to only have two officials go on TV, since Tuesday. Typically we get two officials, on Fox News, every hour it seems like, at the White House.
And now we are told that White House officials have been advised by White House attorneys they should not be going on television and talking about what's going on surrounding the election.
So instead, they're relying on the campaign to book officials. They're the ones that you're seeing, defend the President, and not those paid government spokespeople instead, talking about the President, defending his claims - baseless claims about voter fraud, on television this week.
TAPPER: It's a curious time to suddenly start caring about the Hatch Act!
Kaitlan, I want to ask you about something you reported for us the last hour, which was President Trump expressing frustration that his legal team is somewhat wanting.
I heard from a source that Jared Kushner, the President's son-in-law, and a Senior Adviser to the President, had told President Trump, before the election that the legal team was all taken care of.
And that is one of the reasons why President Trump is frustrated, because he was told it had been taken care of, and then he looks up, and he sees it's not exactly the Algonquin Round Table representing him, out there, when it comes to the legal case.
Have you heard anything along those lines?
COLLINS: That's so interesting that a source told you that, because we had actually heard from a few people that there was frustration with Jared Kushner over the team that they had assembled that, of course, Jared Kushner is often seen as the de facto Chief of Staff. Certainly it's not Mark Meadows. He is that, of course in his official capacity.
But everyone knows that it's Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump who are the ones who are the closest advisers to the President, in the West Wing, with Jared Kushner often taking a lead, when it comes to things related to the campaign, and related to the President's reelection effort.
And so, we had heard there was frustration with Jared Kushner. We hadn't heard that he had told the President they had everything taken care of. But clearly, we're seeing how they weren't as well-prepared as they thought they were going to be.
And we saw this play out with impeachment. Remember, they added attorneys at the last minute because they were worried about what that was going to look like, Alan Dershowitz, Ken Starr, Pam Bondi, that kind of legal crew that came in.
And we're seeing a similar situation play out here. But, of course, they're not relying on the Republican Senate to keep the President in office this time. They're relying on voters. And it may not have paid off for them with the way we're seeing the numbers play out, in places like Pennsylvania.
TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.
So, what do you think? I mean it's got to be frustrating for both President Trump and former Vice President Joe Biden tonight. They want some sort of resolution to this.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean I think certainly, Joe Biden, they had planned to celebrate tonight.
TAPPER: Yes.
PHILLIP: And they're probably not going to be able to do it.
[21:25:00]
But you will see Biden come out and try to fill that space that we've been talking about, the sort of president-in-waiting kind of space, so that with President Trump kind of at the White House, and he's tweeting a little bit, but he's not really out there. There's a lot for Joe Biden to do.
On the legal front, I do find it interesting that they have suddenly discovered that they're not prepared.
And I wonder if it could be because this map that they are defending is probably a lot bigger than they imagined, that perhaps they thought they would be waging legal battles in one state, maybe two, not four.
And now, they are trying to claw back in two states that are red states, that they have lost ground to Joe Biden in, in Georgia and in Arizona.
So, both of those scenarios, I think, are - were possible, prior to Tuesday, right, like, you know? I think everybody imagined that there would be some states that were competitive that maybe had not been four years ago.
But I'm not sure that that really sunk in for the Trump campaign team, and even for Jared Kushner, who, Dana, as you know, is the numbers guy. He's the guy who has so much confidence in the Trump campaign's numbers and believed this race was going to be a win for the President.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And it's so surprising that there's finger-pointing going on about why there is not a proper legal team set up for the President to be ready right now. I mean we've seen this movie before. And I'm hearing similar things.
But what I'm also told is, the word that has been used a couple of times with me is "Process." It is a process that people around the President are trying to get him to, and his supporters, as we talked about earlier. But they can't get him in the next step of the process until they see numbers. And although we're all watching, you know, all four of these states, Pennsylvania seemed to be the one that was on the cusp of really giving us the answer.
The one that I'm told the President is really watching the most closely right now is Arizona, because it is such a red state. And if that is really clearly out of his reach, people around the President feel much more confident that they can move that process along, a little bit further with him, when and if the time comes.
TAPPER: But it's not as though if he wins Arizona, he wins the presidency.
BASH: No, no. No, the opposite.
TAPPER: Right.
BASH: Meaning if he loses Arizona--
TAPPER: Right.
BASH: --it will be easier to convince him.
TAPPER: And what about Joe Biden? What do you think is going through his mind, as he watches this unfold? The votes have been going in the right direction for him, in Pennsylvania, in Georgia, in Nevada. He only needs one of those, Pennsylvania.
BASH: Yes.
TAPPER: Or he could do Georgia and Nevada. They've not been going in his direction in Arizona. But, all things being equal, I'd rather be Biden than Trump in terms of this.
BASH: Yes.
TAPPER: What do you think is going through his mind?
BASH: I mean I was actually trying to figure that out. And one of the things I thought if I were him, I would think, "Well I waited four decades, what's four days?" You know? I mean, this is the third time he's tried to run, and the most, you know - obviously the closest he got by far.
But it's hard. It's hard. I can't even imagine being in that position. But it's better to be, as you said, in that position, than in a position where you think that the votes will finally be counted and you might lose.
TAPPER: All right, everyone, stay right there. New numbers are coming out of Pennsylvania. And the big question about, will Pennsylvania propel Joe Biden to the White House.
We're standing by for new numbers from the Keystone State as Election Night in America continues. [21:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: All right, we're getting new numbers in Pennsylvania. Brian Todd is out there on the scene in Pittsburgh. Update our viewers, Brian.
RICH FITZGERALD, ALLEGHENY COUNTY, PA EXECUTIVE: We're announcing the total vote of 9,288 votes, for Joe Biden, 7,300, Donald Trump, 1,875.
Let me repeat that. Total votes, 9,288. 7,300 for Joe Biden. 1,875. That's a mix of military votes as well as a part of those 29,000 votes that they're reconciling that has come out before.
The rest of the votes that will be coming out, at this point, would be all mail-in ballots, the typical mail-in ballots from Allegheny County. They've been running about 80/20, and then there's the biggest two more provisional ballots that's--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rich, just to be clear, that 9,000, is that the entire--
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I? Can I?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: --entirety of today? Or is that you're watching that unfold?
(CROSSTALK)
FITZGERALD: Since the last time we spoke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, 9,288 since the last time we spoke?
FITZGERALD: Since the last time we spoke, that's correct, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So that's in addition, by the way--
FITZGERALD: In addition to what we did last time, yes.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And do you know when we're going to get the rest of the totals?
FITZGERALD: I don't know. They're working on it right now. Maybe in an hour or two, I don't know. But they're working on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that 9,288, that's made up of the remaining military ballots and--
FITZGERALD: The remaining - yes, the military ballots are now all finished. And then the remaining of those - partial of those 29,000, if they're reconciling?
TODD: Will they be working through the night, Rich, to do this?
FITZGERALD: Oh, they'll be-- TODD: Or will they take a break?
FITZGERALD: Yes. They're working as much as they can. And we'll try and get as much vote as we can.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you repeat those numbers one more time, please?
FITZGERALD: Yes. 9,288. Joe Biden, 7,300. Donald Trump, 1,875. The other ballots would be like the third-party candidates.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And those ballots, again, include the damaged and the--
FITZGERALD: No. No, the damaged ballots were all redone before.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
FITZGERALD: We announced those, I guess, a couple of hours ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, these are the overall numbers of the mail-in?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 29,000?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 29,000, OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Rich, how many of the--
TODD: And Rich?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: --29,000 those were or no?
FITZGERALD: I don't know. I don't have the answer to that.
TODD: How many ballots are left to count in Allegheny County?
FITZGERALD: I don't have the answer to that either. We'll have to get back to you.
TODD: All right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you able to say that the military and overseas are--
FITZGERALD: Those are done. I don't know the break - I don't know the breakdown of that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the military ballots will still be accepted till Tuesday, right?
FITZGERALD: Yes, it is correct. That is correct, yes. So, those are going to maybe a few more votes.
TODD: These are the totals, including the, excuse me, the damaged ballots, the military ballots, and part of the 29,000?
FITZGERALD: Yes.
TODD: This is - these are totals right at this moment?
FITZGERALD: That's right. That's right.
TODD: Got it.
[21:35:00]
FITZGERALD: Thank you, guys.
TODD: Thank you.
All right. So, you have it, guys. I'll read - I'll read the totals again from Rich Fitzgerald, the Executive from Allegheny County. 7,300 votes for Joe Biden. 1,875 votes for Donald Trump.
Joe Biden - these are totals, now. These are the total number of those mail-in ballots that they are counting, not cast on Election Day. These were mail-in ballots that they are counting in Allegheny County.
They started out, we should say, today, with about 35,000-plus votes left to count. So there are still tens of thousands of votes left to count in Allegheny County. We don't have that exact number. But a total of 9,288 votes have been cast - counted tonight, excuse me, and for Joe Biden, 7,300, for Donald Trump, 1,875.
So Joe Biden, his lead in Allegheny County mounting tonight, Wolf.
BLITZER: An important lead, indeed, Brian, thank you very much. Thank Mr. Fitzgerald for us as well.
So, it looks like a dramatic net gain right now, John, for Biden. We haven't tallied that yet in our official number. The old lead was 21,705. That's going to go up to close to what, 27,000?
KING: It's going to go over 27,000. Here's the math Brian outlaid for you. So, it's a net gain of 5,425 votes. Again, not yet reported into the system. As you see this, our net gain of 5,425 votes.
Excuse me for walking across and flipping my back here on you. So, if you add that in, if you add that into this, you get a new statewide lead of, it's 27,130.
Sorry about my scribble. I'm doing this on the side here. But that's a "2." 27,130. Let me do that a little bit neater for you. I'm going to try it again. I know. I've been doing this at home. I have a little fun with this.
27,130, which, from 21,000, you know, so 5,000-plus, right? And so, the whole question of the evening has been, does this lead keep growing, does it get to a point where it is statistically improbable, and near impossible, for Donald Trump to catch up?
We still have ballots remaining. You heard them in Allegheny County, they have some. There's more ballots to count statewide. But you're getting to the point now, where it's already difficult, increasingly difficult for the President of the United States to catch up. And every time, you get a lopsided add like that, it continues.
BLITZER: And he pointed out those were military ballots, other ballots, provisional ballots. There's still a whole bunch of mail-in ballots that they're waiting for. And those are lopsided in favor of Biden.
KING: They have been consistently lopsided in favor of Biden.
Let me throw this out of here. I got to turn this off first. Sorry about this. And turn this off, and get this out of the way.
They're consistently lopsided in favor of Biden anyway, and even more so in the counties like Allegheny, which is Pittsburgh, a largely Democratic area. You see Joe Biden is getting 60 percent of the vote, just shy of that, in that County. And what we've seen in the mail-in ballots is Joe Biden comes in disproportionately higher than that.
And again, when you come back out, to statewide, what just happened? The news there from Allegheny County quite significant, it's 5,000- plus added to the statewide lead.
Again, the official numbers, you'll see these change any second. The Allegheny puts them into the system, they go into the statewide system, and they'll change probably while we're standing here. But 21,705 is where the official count is right now. When they get out of there, it's going to be 27,130.
And again, that has been the story of the night. Can President Trump catch up in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or will Joe Biden continue what has been happening throughout the day which is a slow but methodical, steady build in that lead?
Again, 3.327 million votes cast. 3.305 million for President Trump. That's, you know, you see the math right there, 6.6 and counting. So, you see 27,000. It doesn't seem like a lot. But it's a sizable number now. It was 5,500 to start the day. It's now up to 27,000.
And as you've just watched it grow, consistently, that's what you're looking at. It's grown from the morning, consistent percentages when you count these mail-in ballots and a consistent build for Joe Biden.
BLITZER: And just for those viewers who may not necessarily be following this, as closely as you and me and a lot of our other viewers, there are 20 electoral votes from Pennsylvania. And if Biden wins, he goes from 253--
KING: Right.
BLITZER: --to 273. You need 270 to be elected President of the United States. And it's going to be - it looks really hard for Trump to overcome that 27,000-vote advantage.
Bob Casey, the Senator from Pennsylvania, the Democratic Senator from Pennsylvania is joining us right now. So, what do you think, Senator? We did some of the math. It looks like Biden now has a 27,000-vote lead in your State, Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.
SEN. BOB CASEY (D-PA): Wolf, that's a pretty substantial gain. And I know the counting statewide today was slower than everyone hoped. But now you're seeing a big jump.
Look, as you, and John, and others have played out, over several days now, especially the last number of hours, this is inexorable.
Every time there's a new report, Joe Biden is gaining votes, and adding to the margin.
[21:40:00]
And that's why I said, from the beginning, he's going to win Pennsylvania. I think he already has, in essence. But we'll see what the next batch of votes, bring. But it's a methodical process, and people have been very patient.
BLITZER: John King has a question for you, Senator.
KING: Senator, you don't have a Magic Wall. But you have run statewide several times, including in close elections.
One of the things we're waiting for right now, one of the sources of our caution, is that in addition to the mail-in ballots we're waiting for them to count, they're a ballpark, it's a ballpark number, but 100,000 provisional ballots to be counted.
We have - we know that a lot of those are from Philadelphia and the suburbs, around there, which, if you look at the map, you know we've watched this play out, a predominantly Democratic area.
But in the history of your campaigns, in Pennsylvania, can you make a conclusion about provisional ballots, or are they sometimes anomalies, are they sometimes - do they sometimes come in, in ways inconsistent with the other votes in those communities?
CASEY: Yes. It's hard to be certain. I've never done an analysis of, you know, the provisional ballots in previous elections.
But I can tell you, talking to a number of folks, including Brian Todd, just with Rich Fitzgerald, just within the provisional votes, good numbers for Joe Biden. Even when they had a batch of votes that included military and overseas ballots, still he's done pretty well.
Rich would know more about the mechanics of that, as would other County officials in Philadelphia and suburban Philadelphia. But I don't think there's much of a - doesn't seem to be much of a different pattern or a variance between the pattern with the mail-in ballots as opposed to the - at least the early provisionals we've seen.
So, we'll see if that - if that could change. But doesn't seem to be changing all that much. It may not be the high percentage of votes for Joe Biden in the - as we saw in the mail-in ballots, and still are seeing. But the provisionals don't seem all that different.
Now, earlier today, there was a lot of analysis of the provisionals from small Republican counties. So, the initial round of collection of those - or tabulation of those ballots may have led someone to believe that it was skewing in towards the President.
But I think as you look at more and more provisionals from these Democratic counties, it's going to - it's going to follow a similar pattern, maybe at a lower altitude or lower percentage.
BLITZER: Well the math is now official. John's handwriting, you saw, it was 27,130. It's now been updated. The system has been updated. Biden is ahead, Senator Casey, by 27,130 votes.
So, what do you anticipate? We spoke with you yesterday. We spoke with you today. You still think that number is going to go way, way higher, is that right?
CASEY: I think it will, when you get to the official count, because as many of - many Pennsylvanians know, often on election night, with the - in the - under the old system, so to speak, before mail-in ballot, you would have a count of maybe, maybe by the time the newspapers reporting on the race of 95 percent of the vote, similar to where we are now, and the tabulation would continue.
Even though they'd say, Candidate A won, the election, the tabulation continues, and then the numbers rise.
I was in a race in 2012. And I won - I was winning by I don't know, some 490-some thousand. I really wanted to go over half a million margin. By the time they stopped counting, two weeks later, my margin went up by like 512,000. So, you can see how much margin you can get, even over a short time frame.
But I think the best estimate that the voter project has is that the ultimate margin, meaning the official margin that is the margin they use to certify, will be in the neighborhood of 100,000 votes. And that would be - that'd be more - if it hit it - if it hit a 100, it'd be more than double the margin of 44,292 that President Trump won by.
BLITZER: Senator Casey, we'll stay in very close touch with you. Thank you so much for joining us.
And, once again, Joe Biden's lead in Pennsylvania now 27,130. We're standing by. We anticipate we'll be hearing from the former Vice President tonight at some point. We'll see what he has to say.
You're watching our special coverage. We'll be right back.
[21:45:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: And you're looking at the numbers out of Pennsylvania. Joe Biden has extended his lead as more of the votes are being counted. His lead is now 27,130 votes ahead. More votes still to be counted.
We are waiting to hear from Vice President Biden. We understand he is, in fact, planning to speak tonight. We'll obviously bring that to you live.
That's something we have been hearing about all day, and they have had the set-up, actually, made, for several days now. But we'll see exactly what time the Vice President comes out.
We also believe that Vice President-elect Kamala Harris or potential Vice President-elect Kamala Harris will also be speaking.
David, we talked about what they might talk about. And one of the things I think that Vice President Biden may reference, or kind of focus on, is just the images that we have seen over the last several days now of poll workers counting ballots.
Even today, seeing Sara Sidner--
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
[21:50:00]
COOPER: --outside a polling station, where the poll, you know, people had come to cure their ballots, by law, and they had had a - they've got a text message or a call from poll worker saying "Look, you got to be here by 5 o'clock," and there was this long line of people.
DAVID AXELROD, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: Yes.
COOPER: And it was - there was something just incredibly inspiring about--
AXELROD: It is.
COOPER: --watching these people.
AXELROD: And Van mentioned this earlier. This - there is - there is quiet heroism in this, just people who believe in this process.
COOPER: And one of the guys on the line was saying that he met a bunch of people there. None of them asked each other who they were voting for. They were just kind of getting along and talking about being part of the process.
AXELROD: Yes. I mean it's great. And I am just stunned, as I look at the, just the numbers mounting up on the popular vote, you know? Just - it's just a phenomenal number of people who have participated in this election in the middle of a pandemic.
COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: And that, you know, there are a lot of things that we brood about and properly so that are tearing at our democracy, the issue of trust being one of them. And then you have this, people investing of themselves in this system,
and spending their time, working long hours, for no real reward, because they think it is their civic duty, their responsibility, and they want to be a part of it.
And you're right. Not, you know, Republicans and Democrats working side by side. It's a very - that is the good news here.
COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: That is the encouraging part of what has been a very difficult year.
BORGER: When you think about how many people turned out, we don't have the final numbers yet, obviously. But it's possible Joe Biden, if he is elected, will have the highest popular total of anybody--
COOPER: To ever.
BORGER: --in recent history or ever to become President of the United States. And Donald Trump's numbers could be huge as well.
And so, people participated. They voted. And that is why this whole notion of "Stop the count" is so destructive and counterproductive in every single way, because, of course, you should not stop the count.
And that's what those people, getting in line, by 5 o'clock, because they knew that was that deadline, and they wanted to make sure, when we say, curing a ballot, there may have been something wrong with their ballot that they needed to change.
COOPER: They needed to bring in an ID in one place.
BORGER: Yes.
COOPER: The person being in--
BORGER: And the people who were interviewed said, "Look, I want to make my vote count this time."
COOPER: Well--
BORGER: "Not stop the count, but make it count." Yes.
COOPER: It was also interesting, because this were - this particular polling place was in Nevada, where Sara Sidner was.
And it was one of the places that Lindsey Graham earlier, when he was on Fox, was saying he didn't trust the vote out of Nevada, because undocumented immigrants were likely voting there. He's saying that without any particular evidence. He didn't present any.
But a number of the people online were people who had to come back, and present another form of ID, which is kind of the--
BORGER: That's why-- AXELROD: You know what? You know what else? Can I? This, as a complete aside, but you know what else is stunning about that? I'm old enough to remember when Lindsey Graham was one of the Republicans, who was a champion for immigration reform.
COOPER: Yes.
AXELROD: That's how far he's traveled from that point to where he is now, you know, saying these things without any evidence to do what we've seen from the President, which is to demonize--
COOPER: The irony of the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, making arguments without any - presenting any evidences.
BORGER: And talking about how crooked it is in Philadelphia.
COOPER: Yes.
BORGER: It's absurd.
And Rick and I were talking about this earlier, but it is interesting to watch how Republicans decide to walk this line, and those who jumped immediately in the President's corner, who may be running for President, at some point, and want him in their corner versus those--
COOPER: Or at least want his people there.
BORGER: Yes, his people, well--
COOPER: In their corner.
BORGER: --and he can bring them potentially.
And those, like Mitch McConnell, who are being a little bit more careful, and Mike Pence, by the way, saying, you know, just count every legal vote versus going to war.
And the Republicans are going to have to self-identify on those, along those lines, because the President - if I were - Rick and I were talking about it. If I were the President, and I were really going to go to war, I'd try and line up the troops for me. And I haven't seen that.
COOPER: Yes. Well the irony of the war analogy--
RICK SANTORUM, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can I do another aside? Do you have a minute?
COOPER: I got to - well yes, sure, go ahead.
SANTORUM: Yes, just - a little bit of hope because I know the Trump folks who are sitting there, hope that just in Pennsylvania, David and I have been talking about why we have such a big number of outstanding votes, because the mail-in votes are almost - look like there aren't very many.
[21:55:00]
There are about 115,000 provisional votes. And the provisional votes are by and large people in the primary, when you voted in Pennsylvania, you could check a box, saying "Send me a - send me a ballot, absentee ballot, for the general election." A lot of people did that and forgot.
BORGER: Right.
SANTORUM: Particularly Republicans. And then Donald Trump came around and said "Don't vote by mail." So, a lot of Republicans checked that box, didn't vote by mail, and went and voted in person, and as a result had to vote provisionally.
So there is the sense, at least, I'm hearing this from Republicans, in Pennsylvania, "Don't count out us yet because we have all these provisional votes that might skew heavily Republican."
COOPER: We are waiting for Joe Biden to address the nation as we expect more numbers from the State that could put him over the top, Pennsylvania.
Our special coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
