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CNN Live Event/Special

Biden On Verge Of Victory As Counts Continue In Key States; Biden Makes Appeal For Unity With Victory On The Horizon; U.S. COVID Cases Hit Disturbing New Record With Election In Flux; Soon: P.A. Ballots That May Put Biden Over Top In U.S. Election; G.A. Election Worker In Hiding After False Claims He Threw Out A Ballot. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired November 07, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:00:45]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman alongside Alisyn Camerota. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. An anxious nation's wait, may soon be over. Joe Biden is closing in on the presidential election.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Biden's lead over President Trump continues to grow in key battleground states and we do expect a new round of counted ballots this morning that could put Biden over the top. But the President is vowing to fight on in court while Biden is urging the nation to come together.

BERMAN: All right, this is the electoral vote count as of this moment. Joe Biden has 253 The President has 213. Joe Biden is potentially one state away from crossing that 270-threshold. That's where we begin with a "CNN KEY RACE ALERT."

So, these are the states that matter this morning. The state of Pennsylvania with 20 electoral votes, enough votes to give Joe Biden the presidency. He currently leaves by 28,000 votes. That number has been growing tens of thousands of votes outstanding this morning. We could be getting some of that in. It's coming largely from Democratic areas. His lead is expected to grow.

Georgia. We got new votes from Georgia overnight. Joe Biden now leads there by 7000 votes 16, 16 electoral votes up for grabs there. This is a razor thin margin. Again, Joe Biden has been expanding it. There will be a recount in this state.

The state of Arizona. 11 electoral votes. This is different. Joe Biden's lead has been shrinking. He leads now by 29,000 votes, well over 100,000 votes left account. Republicans will tell you that the President needs to win 60 percent of the remaining vote to win. He hasn't been getting that. So, stay tuned. More vote expected from Arizona this morning.

Finally, Nevada six electoral votes Joe Biden leading by 22,000 votes at this moment. Most of the remaining vote over 100,000 ballots left to count from Democratic, Clark County, which has been patting Joe Biden's margin. Again, we'll hear more from Nevada later this morning. Let's look at where things stand overall, at this moment. Joe Biden has 253 electoral votes. Donald Trump has 213.

The white states, they're the states we still are waiting to hear more from. One state we're watching very closely is Pennsylvania because with its 20 electoral votes, it could give Joe Biden the presidency. That's where we'll begin. When we walk over to Phil Mattingly at the magic wall. Talk to me about Pennsylvania.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, it's the anchor of the blue wall that Vice President Biden claimed he could reconstruct, and he's almost there slowly, steadily, surely his vote total in the state has been growing, over taking nearly 600,000 vote margins from President Trump.

And as things currently stand, as the few as the ballots that are outstanding, grow fewer and fewer, Joe Biden looks to be on a path to win the state. But it's not done yet. So, where is the outstanding vote? This is why Democrats have confidence in the state of Pennsylvania. Look down here, the blue of Southeast Pennsylvania, it's anchored by the City of Philadelphia.

Philadelphia. If you want to know how things stand right now for Joe Biden, look at this margin: 80.8 percent to 18.3 percent, 95 percent reporting. Our understanding right now is about 20 to 25,000 votes outstanding from Philadelphia. And those votes, they are all mail-in ballots, and mail in ballots in this county, they have been going 85 to 86 percent towards Joe Biden.

In other words, whatever margin you're looking at now in the top line, it's going to grow just from Pennsylvania alone, or just from Philadelphia alone. And if you push out from the city of Philadelphia into the collar counties, again Joe Biden racking up vote after vote after vote as those absentee ballots come in.

Those absentee ballots are counted. And without fail, those absentee ballots are going largely to Joe Biden. You can even move west in the state and you get to another Democratic stronghold. You get to Allegheny County, you get to the home of Pittsburgh, where about 29,000 votes are left outstanding. Those votes also mail-in ballots, those votes also going heavily towards Joe Biden. You pull up Allegheny County and you look at the margins.

A little bit tighter here than Philadelphia, however, 59.2 percent, 39.3 percent the reality of those mail-in ballots, which Democrats focus so heavily on in the middle of a pandemic, they have been going to Joe Biden in this county, roughly 75 to 77 percent. So, John, when you look at the outstanding vote right now, at least in terms of mail- in ballots, not just provisional but mail-in ballots, Joe Biden is looking mostly at places where he's picking up every single batch that comes in, including the outstanding vote that might come as soon as this morning.

[07:05:20] BERMAN: All right, so hang on one second. Leave this up. Leave Allegheny County up. Why? Because on the phone with us right now, I'm just hearing the County Executive from Allegheny County, Rich Fitzgerald. Rich, thank you so much for being with us right now. First of all, thank you for the work you're doing. Please, thank all the poll workers for us, give them a giant hug. If you can, can you tell us how many ballots you have left to count?

RICH FITZGERALD, COUNTY EXECUTIVE, ALLEGHENY COUNTY: We probably have somewhere in the neighborhood of a little more than 20,020, 22,000, or 23,000, something like that. But not all those ballots will be -- will be good, because some of them may be duplicates. So, they're going through those today. They're, they're, they're, they're painstaking because they have to be done by hand. So, they can match them up to make sure that those votes did not already get, get counted. But probably, you know, we're probably looking at about 20,000, I think that would get counted.

And in Allegheny County, the mail-in ballots have been running about 80-20. So, 80 percent, for Joe Biden, 20 percent for Donald Trump. So, they'll begin that process today in a few hours. And then we have about 17,000 provisional ballots that will be counted. They will probably trend similarly, maybe a little bit less, maybe more like 70- 75 to 25, but those are will be counted, probably be going early next week.

BERMAN: All right, that's important information, you just gave us. Information we didn't have clarity on. 20,000 to 21,000 mailing ballots that still need to be counted, although there might be some duplicates because of some certain circumstances that happen in your county, and additional 17,000 provisional votes. So, maybe more than 35,000 votes left account in Allegheny County. Rich, when do you think we'll be getting our next update from you? When do you think you're going to feed us more results?

FITZGERALD: I would say at some point, either late this morning or early afternoon. They'll begin this process a little after 9:00, and they'll upload the certain batch -- I don't know, maybe a few thousand at a time every few hours. And that's probably almost like what happened yesterday, last evening, that, that was similar to how things were going, I think we did one batch of about 5,300, then a batch of about 9,000. I think our last batch was a little over 3000.

MATTINGLY: Hey, Rich, Phil Mattingly here. Again, thanks for all the work you and your folks are doing. I think in terms of timeline over the course of the day, you guys move pretty quickly over the course of yesterday with the batches that you put out what's your expectation, you've got a batch moving a couple thousand out this morning, kind of throughout the course of the day, are you going to do several different releases? How are you kind of mapping that out right now.

FITZGERALD: I believe that's all that they plan on doing it. What I will tell you is though the deeper they go into that batch, the slower it will go. They went probably without I'll call it the easier ones first, and the more you go in the further down you go in that 29,000 those are the ones that really have to painstakingly be looked, at your monitor, check that for the duplicate check that it went to the right district. If it didn't go to the right district, then certain parts of the vote would have to be canceled out like for the State Rep or the State Senate. It wouldn't affect a presidential other than the fact that we'll just take a little more time.

BERMAN: Do you have any sense you said there may be some duplicates? Have you been able to see yet what percentage of duplicate ballots there are and the reason for this so people understand is you had to send two rounds out because of an error from a third-party contractor so you sent two rounds of mail-in ballots? What percentage of duplicates are you saying?

FITZGERALD: Very few to be honest with you, so that has been -- but they still have to check it, they still have to go through it. So, what people would do is they would they would most likely discard the, the incorrect ballot that they got and then send back the corrected ballot that had a bright orange slash on it. Yes, bright orange banner on it so that, so that they knew. But you still have to go through it, you know, ballot by ballot. Some people did send the wrong ballot, but, but not very many.

MATTINGLY: Rich, can you go into you know, given a lot of the, you know, misconceptions that are out there, perhaps allegations that are out there that have all been unfounded. Can you kind of talk about the access campaigns or parties have to the process that you're going through right now given the fact that you got to this place because as John was talking about with the duplicate ballots, what, what are the parties, what are the campaigns able to see and do during this process?

FITZGERALD: They're able to see all of it there they've been there. In fact, your cameras have been here or other, other media outlets have been there watching and monitoring the entire system. There are cameras everywhere, cameras, eye in the sky and on the on the ceilings, probably as many cameras as you have it at a casino or somewhere like that. So, it is well documented. It's well viewed by all parties, the Biden party that the Trump party, the Republican, and Democratic and Libertarian. I mean, it's, it's visible. So, you sit there and you watch these folks, as they open the ballot, as they go through the ballot, and look at it. So, it is, it is very, very transparent. And quite frankly, they've been praised at how transparent it is by all parties involved.

[07:10:29]

BERMAN: All right, rich Fitzgerald, we can't thank you enough again, for the work that you're doing for the work the poll workers are doing, and for giving us this update, because this is solid information right now that's very helpful to us to understand where things are and where they're going. Terrific work. Thanks so much, Rich.

FITZGERALD: All right. Thanks, guys. Have a good day.

BERMAN: Phil, can we just, just do the math here for one second. Let's just talk about the mail-in ballots so people know what we're talking about here. He said 20,000, largely coming in 80 percent, 80 percent for Joe Biden at this point. Just so people know, if it's 75 percent, or if it's 66 percent, it would be 15,000 to 5,000, which would be a 10,000-vote pad. You're going to see a 12,000-vote pad or so by his calculations from Allegheny County alone. Is that fair?

MATTINGLY: That's -- yes, I mean, that's, that's the math. And I think that it underscores and you're being very conservative there based on what he was saying. And so again, the, the name of the game right now is what's outstanding, and how can President Trump make up margins? And he's down by 28,000 votes, the reality of what rich was just describing which tracks with what we've seen in mail in, not just in Allegheny, but kind of across the board, even in some conservative counties, is that there are just such limited options for President Trump to start to pick up vote.

Instead, what you're seeing whether you're in Philadelphia, or whether you're in Allegheny County, is opportunities for Vice President Biden to pick up 10, 12, 15,000 votes. And I think it's largely why you see, when you talk to Democrats on the ground there, they predict that by the end of the day, or by the end of the count, it's not going to be 28,000, or 35,000, it's going to be 40,000 50,000, 60,000. And what that means probably most importantly, is this right here, 0.5 percent. That's recount territory. You get outside of that, it changes the dynamic, it changes willingness to call races, and that is where things are headed right now.

BERMAN: 0.5 is one number to watch. Another number to watch is this 28,000-44,000 is what Phil, it's the margin that Donald Trump won Pennsylvania by 2016. So, keep that in mind. We could pass that at some point this morning. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, we are standing by for all of that. Here to discuss this and so much more is CNN Senior Legal Analyst, Laura Coates. She is also a former Attorney in the voting rights section at the Justice Department. That seems to come into handy in handy right now, Laura. So, you're the perfect person to talk to. In your opinion from this slew of lawsuits that we've seen come from the Trump campaign, do any have merit, and in particular, the one that Justice Alito has ruled on in terms of those ballots that were postmarked by Election Day in Pennsylvania, but received for the three days after.

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Not a one is going to have any meaningful impact on the election results unless for some reason, the margin of victory for the person who is presumed to win Pennsylvania is somehow going to be impacted by the number of segregated ballots, the one that came in after election day until the deadline of Friday. If that narrow opportunity for those particular votes will actually sway the election, then it could have an impact.

Otherwise, we're talking about the Supreme Court, Alisyn, just weighing in to figure out in the long run, whether the Pennsylvania State Supreme Court, or any state supreme court can extend a deadline, theoretically, when the state legislature said that you could not. That's what they would look at. That the sort of narrow question the Supreme Court be looking at, not about who won the election, but whether there was somebody who usurped the authority of the people who were supposed at the time manner in place of elections.

CAMEROTA: We have heard in our reporting that President Trump is unhappy with his legal team, wants them to be more aggressive or thinks they're unprepared, I think. Do you know what the problem is?

COATES: Well, the problem is everyone hates their lawyers when they have no chance of winning, because the case just doesn't have the evidentiary support. A lot of what President Trump has been speaking about is the idea of drawing a conclusion, and then hoping to work backwards to somehow find an iota of evidence. But we're talking about election related matters. You actually have to gather that evidence of whatever fraud you are articulating, actual specific evidence about whether there's a clerical error, whether something about the mismanagement of the ballots, whether there's intimidation or other things.

Those are things you get in real time, it's very hard to go back and try to conjure up or figure out what might have happened after the fact. You can't have a backwards approach. And so, if he has none of those, and so far, we have seen nothing about that. And also, you have a breath of cases, a breath of states. Alisyn, we're focusing Of course on Pennsylvania because of the very high electoral vote count, but he's drawing, he's having cases, at least four different states. And so, the amount of financial investment, the amount of legal expertise, and then you also fall short on evidence. This is a huge uphill battle that, frankly, maybe too much to overcome.

[07:15:24]

CAMEROTA: You need evidence in court. Let me write that down. That's very interesting.

COATES: E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E.

CAMEROTA: Thank you. Laura, that is fascinating. But what about this the larger issue and that is that do these lawsuits and recounts, gum up the works somehow in terms of the transition. If, if Joe Biden wins, does all of this kind of postpone or somehow mess up the transition?

COATES: Here's how it could, if for some reason there was this essentially battled electoral count and you had some instance where perhaps you had two different slates of electors who were going to put their electoral college votes to separate candidates who's dueling elections and some sort, it could go to Congress, it could have Congress be the ones that ultimately decide who they're going to accept ballots from Electoral College counts from. That could delay if they somehow missed the deadline by which you have these electors already in place.

But realistically, that is something that's down the road, one that you shouldn't focus on yet. And here's why, because all about the numbers --basic addition is where we are right now, the tabulation. And there is a safe harbor period for each of the states, where if they certify their elections in time for a particular deadline, and they can't be legally challenged after that. That's why every single state is racing right now to get to that certification period. So, they can avoid the idea of maybe even the House having to decide as opposed to Electoral College members.

CAMEROTA: If there's something to worry about on the horizon, oh, I'll start worrying about it, Laura. But thank you very much for explaining all that and putting it into such great context for us.

All right, up next, we are live at Biden headquarters with a look at the thinking inside that campaign and what we may hear from the candidate today.

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[07:21:27]

CAMEROTA: All right, we're told the Biden campaign is working on a potential victory speech as he awaits word that his lead does last in the four states that have yet to be called. M.J. Lee is live in Wilmington, Delaware. So, M.J., what is that conversation going on inside those headquarters?

M.J. LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Alisyn. Well, it is Saturday and this race is yet to be called. That means the Biden campaign is in a bit of a holding pattern. But when you talk to the Biden campaign and people close to him, they think this is a done deal. They think it's just a matter of time before they get over the 270-threshold. And you know, when we listen to Biden give his speech here in Wilmington last night, he basically walked right up to the line of declaring victory without just saying those words, he essentially said, Look, the numbers do not lie.

I believe this race is going to be called for me. He said that he believes he is going to win states like Arizona, Georgia and Pennsylvania, all states where we are still waiting for the counts to be finished. And an important part of that speech was him addressing what is likely going to be one of his biggest challenges if he is in fact elected, and that is bringing the country together. He said there is a clear distinction between his opponents and enemies. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We may be opponents, but we're not enemies. We're Americans. No matter who you voted for, I'm certainly one thing, the vast majority of them 150 million Americans who voted. They want to get the vitriol out of our politics. We're certainly not going to agree in a lot of issues, at least we can agree to be civil with one another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEE: Now, even as the campaign is feeling confident that they're going to win, doesn't mean that there isn't a level of impatience. Biden also said in that speech last night, he gets that it's a little numbing to watch the T.V. rally slowly trickle in. He also said and sort of suggested, and I think this is clear and talking to folks around him, you know, look behind me, there's the stage that has been set up for a little while.

Clearly, this is a campaign that is eager to eventually make that victory speech. I will also finally note, one thing the Former Vice President said is that he wants to get to work even before this race is officially called an advisor say that one of those things that he will continue to monitor is the COVID-19 pandemic, that regardless of where we are in the vote counting process, this is something he is going to be looking at and monitoring very closely. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thank you for all that, M.J.

BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE)

CAMEROTA: John, you bring them in.

BERMAN: I'll bring him in. Joining us now: Margaret Talev, CNN Political Analyst, as well as Politics and White House Editor for Axios. and David Gregory, CNN Political Analyst. David, I want to start with you here. Why? Because, you know, 20 years ago or so you and I were covering George W. Bush. During a recount, which is a much different circumstance, there was uncertainty in that.

Right now, there's every reason to think that there won't be uncertainty that there'll be a fair amount of clarity here, but what is similar is that Joe Biden is doing something we saw George W. Bush do, which is to begin acting like a president right away. And it seems to me this has two purposes: one, it's helpful in this time of electoral uncertainty. It gives people confidence in the voting process, but also it lays the groundwork for what happens if and when you become president-elect. What do you see?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, you know, Biden has a unique circumstance that George W. Bush did not at that time. And that is, there is a crisis bearing down on the country, that are facing the country which is the pandemic, of course, and the economy. So, think about Bill Clinton in 1992, who told Ted Koppel in the wee hours of his victory morning, I'm going to focus like a laser beam on the economy. Biden can do that he can do it today has to do it today, because he has to hit the ground running when it comes to fighting the virus.

And dealing with the economy. The needle that I think George W. Bush was trying to thread at that time was he had a house divided, right, a deeply divided polarized country. That's what Biden has. Now, this is not a sweeping mandate. But he has, he is on the cusp of defeating a president after only one term, which is significant. But you remember, John, the advice of Vice President Cheney, which I think is also in the Vice President Biden's here, which is you move forward, you move forward fast, you don't pay attention to the division, you start leading. And again, with the pandemic and with the economy, I think Biden can do that in a in a very in a fast in a resolute way.

[07:26:01]

CAMEROTA: Here's the problem, Margaret, we've got two months, if Biden wins, we have two months until he's in place or more. And yesterday was the highest number of case count yet, 125,000 people in this country. The Chief of Staff in the White House, Mark Meadows has tested positive. He's in a high-risk group, 61-year-old man. And so, we can't wait for those two months. And that President Trump, I mean, we haven't heard from him or seen him in more than 24 hours. He's not tackling this, and it's just getting worse.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. Well, good morning, Allison. Look, I think when you heard from Vice President Biden, last night, one of the passages that stuck out to me was when he said that he had a mandate to govern and to begin moving forward. And you can argue whether or not a race this, this razor thin is a mandate from the Electoral College, certainly from the popular vote, it will be. But the reason he's doing that is to lay the groundwork for the transition that has to begin immediately.

And we already know that he is in conversations on a regular basis with the former Surgeon General Vivek Murthy, with folks like David Kessler and Zeke Emanuel, who we know for years dating back to the Clinton administration, that there's an assembly of you know, a dozen or so folks who are advising him on Coronavirus matters.

And that is going to be priority number one, during what we expect to be a Biden transition, shortly forthcoming, and he'll be moving forward assuming this raises called the way we all expect it to be called in the coming hours or days, moving forward on cabinet appointments and so on and so forth.

But it is exactly as you said that Coronavirus, that is priority number one because by the time of an inauguration, we know that the number of deaths potentially we've seen projections could have doubled. We know that experts believe that Thanksgiving may be a tipping point, an inflection point for a quick rise in infections and whatever comes with that, and that the, the pandemic and the problems that have expanded greatly under this administration.

The bill that's going to come due by the time of the next generation could be significantly higher than it is right now. And the, the way the two teams work together if it is a president-elect, Biden, will the Trump administration play nice with that transition? Will they do the kind of information sharing, laying the groundwork for a smooth transition of government? Those are real questions at this point.

GREGORY: And that's a critical point. I mean, Alisyn, I think you're onto it. We have we don't know what we're in for, but we can imagine with President Trump, which is no peaceful transfer of power in the sense, in this sense. I don't mean calling for violence. I mean, will he cooperate with the shadow government with the government that is in transition?

Will he block their efforts? Will he have Biden over? Will he confer with him on anything, we'll even go to the inauguration? We don't know any of that, but knowing where President Trump's head appears to be, we can assume that there won't. So, we could be a really volatile couple of critical months in fighting the pandemic and of course, in dealing with the economy. CAMEROTA: It's also -- I mean, just to, just to build on that for one second. It's also hard to imagine now, do we not know it? It's just hard to in your head? Imagine that level of cooperation from President Trump after this campaign.

BERMAN: This campaign after his life.

CAMEROTA: Sure, after these five years.

BERMAN: I mean, in any point in his life, you know, this is just how he behaves. But you know, the end --

GREGORY: But I could see people underneath him. I could see -- I could see underneath him cooperating unless he actively blocks it. But you know, because there's a lot of, there's a lot of levels at which that cooperation happens, but I could certainly see him being an impediment.

[07:29:44]

BERMAN: There's every reason to believe the apparatus of the government and the transition structure that snaps into place will continue to do so whatever nonsense you hear from the President United States. And the impact and all this is again on the American people. We've had more than 1,000 new deaths reported four days in a row for the first time in a very long time.

There's one issue about the issue of mandate and margins here, I think people need to know. Joe Biden is on path to win the same number of electoral votes that Donald Trump won four years ago, which Trump himself labeled a massive universal galactic landslide.

(CROSSTALK)

TALEV: Yes.

BERMAN: You know, more -- 306 electoral votes is more than George W. Bush ever got, it's more than Jimmy Carter got. It's a little bit less than Barack Obama got. In terms of the margin and the popular vote, Trump '16, Bush '04, Bush 2000, Carter '76, Nixon '68, and Kennedy '60, all had well less than the four percent or so that Joe Biden has right now that could keep growing. That's in the popular vote there.

And you alluded to this before, David, the mandate you have is the mandate you take, a lot of the times when you come into office.

GREGORY: Yes. Yes, I agree with that. I agree with that and I -- and I think, here is another way to underline that. If Biden wins, you know, Trump's a one-term president, it's very difficult to defeat a one-term president.

The only thing that I think argues against that is, look, there was a lot of energy. We know it. In the media, among pollsters, in the Democratic Party that they were going to run Trump out of town, and this wouldn't be a walloping. It was not, it's a close race in the Electoral College, there may be more distance, and I take your point about the past. We also are on track potentially to have divided government. The Democrats lost House seats.

So, there there's a lot of division in the country. But I don't think that means that as Biden that you tiptoe into office. I think any president stands up and leads and takes the American people with him or her to where the country needs to go. That's what leadership is, and he tries to build consensus.

This is a tough political environment to do that and it has been since 2020 -- I mean, since 2000 when we covered that tight race.

BERMAN: Yes. Margaret Talev, David Gregory, thank you both so much.

So, it is what? 7 30 on the East Coast right now.

CAMEROTA: I've lost all sense of space and time.

BERMAN: And it is Saturday, just in case you were wondering.

CAMEROTA: Is it? Are you sure?

BERMAN: Ballot counting has resumed in Pennsylvania. Joe Biden is edging closer to victory. Standby, we're going to take you to Pennsylvania and we're going to look at the record-breaking -- we've been talking about this, the record-breaking popular vote. No candidate has ever received 74 million votes or 70 million for that matter. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:36:35]

BERMAN: Welcome back to "CNN's SPECIAL LIVE COVERAGE". Let's take a look at two of the states where things are very close this morning. First, the state in Nevada, Joe Biden has a 22,000-vote lead, six electoral votes up for grabs, 100,000 plus votes left to count, most of them from Clark County, which has been leading heavily democratic.

Now, the State of Arizona, 11 electoral votes. Joe Biden with a 29,000-vote lead. That vote has been shrinking. Republicans will tell you, President Trump needs 60 percent of the remaining vote, more than 100,000 left in order to take the lead. He hasn't been getting that. Still, we're watching very closely.

Let's go over to Phil Mattingly at the magic wall to get a sense of where things stand and let me preface this by saying, what we're about to talk about doesn't matter, because of the constitution and the founding fathers, the popular vote, but it has some, I think moral significance.

MATTINGLY: Look, I think, I'll put it this way. So, I spend the vast majority of my time kind of digging into each state, digging into each county. And then, every once in a while you look up in the middle of going through Maricopa, or Allegheny, or Philadelphia, or anything else. And you look right here, specifically right here, the popular vote right now, the turnout that we've seen, it started an early vote with surges across the country.

And where we currently stand that more than 144 million -- 144 million votes that have been cast, and we are still eight percent outstanding. That is going to grow, it's going to grow exponentially over the course of the coming days and weeks as all of the count is finalized.

And you also look at Joe Biden's popular vote lead. More than 4.2 million votes he is currently ahead of President Trump, 50.5 percent to 47.7 percent. So, just to contextualize it a little bit, you go back in time, go back into 2016. Keep 144 million in your head, go back to 2016. Nowhere near that. Nowhere near that.

And again, still, eight percent, seven percent outstanding. Go back even to 2012, President Obama versus Mitt Romney, 125 million. Go back to 2008, which was a big turnout, at least, for modern era. Still, surpassed it enormously.

And you look at the top line, go back over to 2020, no individual in the history of the country has gotten more votes than Vice President Biden in a general presidential election.

And the other interesting element, no individual in the history of the country other than Joe Biden has gotten more votes in a presidential election than President Trump. And it's just -- it's this year, it's this moment, it's this willingness to participate. That is astounding.

BERMAN: And now you know what? Good on him, good on him, good on you.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, this was an election where people did came -- come out and participate. I do want to point out this margin here, 4.1 million. It's going to grow.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BERMAN: A lot of the remaining voters from California. Joe Biden has the potential to grow his popular vote lead to north of 5 million, which would be more than even Barack Obama in 2012.

Bill Clinton in 1992 was 5.8 million. Not impossible that Joe Biden gets there. So, when you think about the size of the victory from the national sense, it could be pretty big.

MATTINGLY: Yes.

BERMAN: It could be pretty big.

MATTINGLY: No, there's no question about it. And also, just one other quick fact to go back to turnout, there is a very, very real possibility that in terms of total percentage turnout, it surpasses the current high in modern era, which is 1960. Which is I think, actually, you know what? Real quick, I know we're on time here. 63.8 percent, 1960. On the path right now to pass that in modern era. We've seen several, several cycles now where turnout has gone down, something, something about 2020, something about everything that's going on in our country and in the world, it's a good thing.

[07:40:09]

BERMAN: All right, Phil. Thank you very much. Go back to crunching the numbers.

Up next, how the Republican Party is responding to President Trump's baseless claims of election fraud? We're joined by a former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania, next.

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[07:45:02]

BERMAN: Welcome back to "CNN SPECIAL LIVE COVERAGE". They have resumed counting ballots in Philadelphia, in the State of Pennsylvania. This is where things stand there. Joe Biden leads by 28,000 votes. Almost 29,000, 20 electoral votes up for grabs. If Joe Biden wins Pennsylvania, he will be the president-elect of the United States. Much of the voting, many of the ballots come from largely democratic areas, we are waiting from -- for some results over the next several minutes. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Let's bring in Charlie Dent, he's our CNN political commentator and former congressman from Pennsylvania. Congressman, what's taking so long in your home state?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, Alisyn. I'll tell you what's taking so long. The reason why -- this is the first time Pennsylvania ever did absentee voting without excuses. So, it's -- the volume is enormous because of the pandemic, the legislature passed the law prior to the pandemic, and so, and of course, and then, there was no authority for the counties to start to count those votes until Election Day.

And we, in Pennsylvania, put in perspective, there nearly 13 million residents of Pennsylvania, and there are 3.1 million requests for absentee ballots, and about over 2.5 million were actually returned, and now about a three to one ratio, Democrat to Republican, and so, they've been counting.

This is the first time they've done it. There's nothing nefarious going on here, it's just it's the first time, and they're getting through it.

CAMEROTA: Charlie, I just want to point out what we're seeing on the other side of the screen. This is a live shot of the counting that's going on. And I don't want to malign the counters, they are doing God's work, OK? But clearly, they're on a break right now.

They have not started because the entire room appears to be empty. I know they're tired, they've been at this for days, but it doesn't look like much is happening at this exact moment.

DENT: Yes. Well, I'll tell you, I'm sitting about three or four blocks from where they're actually counting. I'll go over there, and I wake them up, I guess, but, they're going to get through it.

CAMEROTA: OK, thank you.

DENT: They're going to get through it. And, you know, we're getting -- we're down near the end. By the way, Pennsylvania is -- take it to the bank, Joe Biden is going to win Pennsylvania conservatively by, at least, 50,000 votes, you know, maybe 100,000. This game is over, it's done, and people just -- I know all the networks have to be very cautious and conservative about calling it, but I can tell you, this outcome is not going to change.

CAMEROTA: In the meantime, Charlie, people supporters of President Trump and his surrogates really are casting aspersions on the counting in Pennsylvania and Philadelphia.

In particular, Senator Lindsey Graham, said Philadelphia -- Philadelphia's election counting is as crooked as a snake. And in fairness, Philly does have a history of some malfeasance, and so, what do you say to all that?

DENT: Well, it is true. There has -- there have been problems in Philadelphia over the years. I lived it, the 1990s when we -- when a state senator was ejected for massive absentee voting fraud in the city of Philadelphia in 1994, I remember it.

But the counting that's going on today, it's not just Philadelphia. My home county, Lehigh County, I voted by mail, my vote probably wasn't counted until Thursday. And so, there -- it's all these counties are slower than we like, because again, they couldn't start counting until Election Day.

And the general assembly and the governor couldn't reach an agreement. They didn't allow the county workers to start counting prior to the election. They should have given a week or 10 days. We wouldn't be in this situation had they just planned better.

And I think there was a deliberate strategy by some to have this situation where we knew there was going to be -- that Donald Trump was going to come out at the in-person voting with an advantage. And to watch it evaporate with the -- with the absentees.

And by the way, the fact that Donald Trump suppressed his own vote by telling voters not to engage in mail-in voting or absentee voting, he harmed his own campaign. It's an act of political stupidity.

(CROSSTALK)

CAMEROTA: Wait. Because you think -- Charlie, so, you think that he would have gotten more votes had he encouraged people to mail and vote? You think that not -- that not enough people showed up on Election Day for him? DENT: Well, it may have hurt him. I mean, I just know in this -- in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Republicans had historically even been better at absentee voting than Democrats.

I mean, we -- the Republican State Committee has a very aggressive program. That's how I voted by absentee, they sent me my application, my whole family. They're very good at it. And Donald Trump is out there bad-mouthing mail-in voting, and I think he suppressed his vote. I -- it may have cost him some votes.

I don't know. I can't calculate how many, but I think it absolutely hurt Republican candidates up and down the ballot. It was just an act of malpractice. It was stupid. I know there are plenty of Republican leaders in Congress who are mortified when the president went off on this issue of mail-in voting.

CAMEROTA: Congressman Dent, great to talk to you. Let us know what happens when you walk three blocks away, and when you figure out what the count is there for us. Give us a call.

[07:50:03]

DENT: I'll crack the whip. It's over, Pennsylvania's -- Biden won.

CAMEROTA: OK.

DENT: OK, thanks.

CAMEROTA: You heard it here from Charlie Dent first. OK, thanks so much. Congressman, great to talk to you.

DENT: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: Up next, an election worker in Georgia has been forced into hiding after a viral video falsely suggests that he tossed out a ballot.

We're live in Atlanta as the vote count there is almost complete.

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CAMEROTA: An election worker in Georgia has been forced to go into hiding after a viral video falsely accused him of wrongdoing. CNN's Nick Valencia is live for us in Atlanta. So, what happened here, Nick?

[07:54:56]

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, the unsubstantiated claims of voter fraud by President Trump have found a home on social media and they have turned dangerous for an Atlanta area man.

A viral video was posted on Twitter after, you know -- after the Fulton County votes were being processed, it has been viewed millions of times, and it falsely accused this ballot poll or this vote -- this poll worker of throwing away a ballot. Rick Barron, the elections director here in Fulton County called the claims, the false accusations shameful. He said they're flat-out dangerous. They have reviewed that video and it shows a young man working at a ballot cutting station, a ballot machine cutting station where the outside envelope separates the inside envelope of the mail- in ballot.

You do see him, at one point, crumble up a piece of paper and threw it away. In fact, that piece of paper is not a ballot, but a list of instructions that voters often or sometimes, I should say, return with their absentee mail-in votes.

That voter -- that poll worker, I should say, is now in hiding. He's not staying at home, but staying with friends, according to Rick Barron. And his personal information, including his driver's -- his driver's license -- or his license plate, I should say, is now public. Security is being --- there -- discussions right now to provide him security. But I mentioned, Alisyn, that it is very dangerous, these false accusations that are floating around the Internet right now. Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That's a nightmare, Nick. That is a nightmare. Thank you very much for reporting that.

VALENCIA: Yes, you bet.

CAMEROTA: Back to you, John.

BERMAN: All right, they have resumed counting in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. If Joe Biden wins Pennsylvania, he wins the presidency. We are expecting some more results in a few minutes. Stick around.

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