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Vaccines Administered in U.S. Now; Electoral College to Affirm Biden's Win; Trump Threatens States; Russian Hackers Breach U.S. Agencies; Russian Operation Trailed Opposition Leader. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired December 14, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Decade on the idea of mRNA technology is -- it's really -- it's really remarkable. I mean I could talk about it all day, Erin, but it is a really, really remarkable moment.

And, you know, just -- I hope people get to take a breath and just take this in.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I mean it is -- it is pretty incredible when you think about it, and also the -- that there is technology involved, right? This isn't some of the tried and true technologies, right, these are new technologies and the other vacs -- we have other vaccines coming, mRNA, pretty amazing to think of such innovation in a sector that, you know, to most people, until recently, was pretty staid, right? And that's -- that's not -- that's obviously not the case here.

So, Sanjay, while you're with me, I want to bring in former CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden as well, because he ran the CDC during the H1N1, Ebola and Zika emergencies as well.

So, Dr. Frieden, you know, interesting that -- that New York chose to do it that way. And I do think it was significant. We don't know if that's the first vaccine around the country that was administered. It well could have been. But it certainly was in New York State. But -- but for something so mundane to be so important to do like this I think is a significant statement.

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: This is a wonderful first step on a very long road to immunity from vaccination. It is a triumph, a scientific triumph. It's amazing that we have a vaccine that's this effective and appears to be this safe.

But we're not out of the woods yet. And for the next few months we really need to double down on protection protocols so that there aren't avoidable deaths while we're waiting to get the vaccine rolled out.

BURNETT: And -- and, Sanjay, that is the great tragedy, right? You've got 110,000 people hospitalized. Hospitalizations at a record. New cases at a record. Deaths, the CDC has said, are going to run 2,000 to 3,000 per day for the next 90 days. I mean a tragedy in that so much of this was avoidable had behavior been changed.

Sanjay, what do you think about what's been put out there as people, you know, mull over the vaccine and what they're going to do? Some have said, well, you should give everyone one dose and just give everyone a dose and give as much immunity as you can and then not worry about that second dose until everybody's had the first and then do a booster. Do you think that makes any sense given that the vaccine is obviously not been tested in such a way?

GUPTA: You know, I've asked so many people about this, including Albert Bourla, who's the CEO of Pfizer, asked him about that this morning. You've talked to the FDA about this, Dr. Fauci. And I think, you know, it's really interesting, I don't know if we have this graphic, maybe we don't, that basically shows how much protection people seem to be getting after a single dose. But regardless, what you hear from just about everybody is that what the data sort of points to is the efficacy of two doses. There was just a three-week time period in between the first and second dose, so it's really hard to read too much into this idea --

BENNETT: So -- so, Dr. Frieden, how long does it take -- you hear the governor of New York say next summer, you heard the Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Azar implying it could be much sooner than that, right, you could have by February. How quickly does this actually provide the vaccine induced herd immunity?

FRIEDEN: Well, first off, the top priority here, in addition to health care workers, are people who work or live in nursing homes, because that's where 40 percent of the deaths are. And if we can rapidly get people in those communities vaccinated, we can really knock down the number of deaths in the coming months.

But, remember, it's one vaccine, a second vaccine three or four weeks later and then maybe a week or ten days after that, the kind of protection that we're seeing that's very encouraging. There's a lot of bumps in the road that can happen, production problems, supply problems, distribution problems.

There may be signals that make people worried about it, acceptance and it's going to be many months before this pandemic begins to be over. But today's first step is a great one. It's worth celebrating but we should celebrate by being even more careful so that people don't get it avoidably and die just as a vaccine that can prevent it is so near.

BURNETT: Yes.

FRIEDEN: And one last thing that's so important, Congress must act. Billions of dollars spent to make this vaccine but no money allocated to make sure people get it. That's got to be in the next bill in Congress, or it will be a tragedy, because even a vaccine that's 100 percent effective will be zero percent useful if people don't get it.

BURNETT: Yes, that's the thing, you need the -- you need the public relations campaign and information.

Thank you very much, Dr. Frieden, Dr. Gupta.

And, Anderson, back to you.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and, Erin, it is just so extraordinary to watch this.

Thank you.

The president threatening states and election officials just before the Electoral College is set to vote. That is the other big story today.

Plus, Michigan closing its Capitol for the vote today after credible threats of violence. We'll take you there.

And why the president says he reversed a plan to vaccinate White House staff.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:39:51]

COOPER: Electors in all 50 states and Washington, D.C., are getting ready to gather today. They'll once again seal President Trump's fate as they cast their ballots, which will confirm, of course, Joe Biden as the next president and Kamala Harris, the next vice president.

[09:40:02]

CNN's John Berman is with us. He's tracking it for us. He joins us now.

So, John, let's just kind of have a constitutional explainer on how all of this is going to work today.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, what you're going to see today, Anderson, is the process laid out in the Constitution. Article II, Section I of the Constitution which says, each state shall appoint in such manner as the legislature thereof may direct a number of electors equal to the number of senators and representatives to which the state may be entitled in the Congress.

What does that mean? Well, take Michigan, for instance. They have 14 House members, two senators. They get 16 electoral votes today. How were those 16 electoral votes appointed? Well, it happened in that election we had a month ago. Remember that? The one that Joe Biden won in the state of Michigan by 154,000 votes.

Now, it's interesting, there's nothing actually in the Constitution which requires any state to hold an election. There's nothing in the Constitution which guaranties we get to vote for president, which is crazy when you think about it. But since 1864, every state has chosen their electors through elections. Who are these people exactly? Well, let's look at the state of

Delaware for instance here. We'll get a sense of, I can't get Delaware up here. Let's look at the state of Delaware to get a sense of who these people are. They tend to be party people, party officials.

They're either chosen by party convention, party committee, party leaders. And this is a good cross section. This is Joe Biden's home state. You can see the three electors there, a former state party chair, a former candidate for state house and Marla Blunt Carter, who is actually the sister of the one House member from the state of Delaware. These are the three people that will be voting for Joe Biden later today.

These people are picked by the party a month, two months often before the actual Election Day. They're picked for their loyalty, for their record of history, for their record of achievement with the party, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, John Berman, we'll be following this throughout the day.

Even as the Electoral College gets ready to vote and affirm Joe Biden's victory, President Trump is not giving up. He's been pressuring state officials to throw out the election results and declare him the winner.

John Harwood is live at the White House with details.

So, John, let's talk about the president's latest pressure campaign against states.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Look, the president's not giving up, even though the outcome is clear. We've had the Supreme Court thrown out that ridiculous case that the state of Texas and 17 other states brought. Electors are going to vote today.

But you still have a step on January 6th where the Congress certifies the results of the electoral balloting that occurs today in those state capitals. And then, of course, on January 20th is when you have the inauguration. And I would expect, Anderson, that right up until January 20th, the president will keep making noise.

The question is, how many people are going to be listening? I would think that today will be a significant pivot point for a significant number of people in the Congress, perhaps even Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader.

But you're going to have members of the House, you already have, who are threatening to try to contest the Electoral College results on January 6th when the Congress is supposed to certify. The president out today calling Georgia Governor Brian Kemp a fool for not taking a step, which the governor has already taken, but the president is baselessly attacking him anyway, linking the fate of his contest of the state of Georgia with the two Senate runoffs.

So it's a mess and much of the Republican Party is going along with it. The question is whether today marks a turn in the road that takes us in a significant way toward the acceptance of the transition to Joe Biden. The transition is going to take place anyway. The question is, does the Republican Party accept it and, at the end of the day today, I think we'll have a little bit clearer picture of how much and how rapidly they will.

CAMEROTA: John Harwood, appreciate it. Thank you.

A developing story this morning, hackers believed to be from Russia targeted multiple federal agencies in a major cyberattack. The Commerce Department confirmed to CNN that there was a data breach in one of its bureaus and "The Washington Post" reports Russian government hackers also targeted the Treasury Department and other government agencies.

Joining us now is former CIA Director John Brennan. He's also the author of the new book "Undaunted: My Fight Against America's Enemies at Home and Abroad."

Director Brennan, can you just explain the significance of this breach for us because this was going on before the public knew about it. It's been going on for a while and even before the agencies it seems that were being attacked knew they were being attacked.

JOHN BRENNAN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Well, Anderson, we still need to learn a lot of the details about what actually happened. But it sounds like it was a significant breach of the email networks of several government agencies. This is a major, major accomplishment for a foreign intelligence service. Even though these networks are probably the unclassified networks, they still contain a treasure trove of information that is very useful and very sensitive.

[09:45:02]

And so, therefore, I'm sure that government cyber experts now are skirting to find out exactly what was stolen, but also how to stop this very, very unfortunate breach.

COOPER: In your new book "Undaunted" you talk about your concerns regarding President Trump's approach of Vladimir Putin. We know the president's been very reluctant to criticize Russia for anything.

What should the president be doing or saying right now in regard to this situation?

BRENNAN: Well, again, we don't know who is behind this. It could be the Russians certainly and the SBR, which is the Russian foreign intelligence service, engages in these types of espionage activities. And so I think what President -- what Donald Trump needs to do immediately is to ensure that all of the cyber experts in the U.S. government are actively working to contain this very unfortunate breach of the networks.

At the same time, I think he needs to send clear signals to Russia that this type of activity is not going to get his approval. Unfortunately, he has been -- there's too much willing -- too willing to allow Vladimir Putin to, I think, have his way with the United States.

COOPER: I mean we've obviously seen hacks before. This seems very sophisticated. How difficult is it for a government, for anybody to guard against this?

BRENNAN: Well, it is very difficult because intelligence services find ways to be able to penetrate the cyber defenses that the networks have. And so, therefore, with whether it's spear phishing attacks or other types of attacks, they try to get individuals who have access to these networks to access certain links and do things that they're not supposed to do, which then allows these foreign intelligence services to get into the systems networks, access databases and bring out from those systems important information that the governments will use against us. And so, therefore, this is a very significant breach, it sounds like, and therefore the government needs to contain it immediately.

COOPER: Yes.

John Brennan, appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

BRENNAN: Thanks.

COOPER: Investigation by the group Bellingcat and CNN has uncovered evidence that Russia's security service, the FSB, formed an elite team specializing in nerve agents that followed a trailed opposition leader Alexey Navalny for years. Navalny, as you know, was poisoned with the toxin Novichok in August, very nearly died.

CNN chief international correspondent Clarissa Ward and her team have been working this story for months, have spoken with Navalny himself as he continues his recovery in Germany.

And Clarissa is in Moscow.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): August 20th, on a flight to Moscow, a passenger captures the awful wails of Alexey Navalny, the Russian opposition leader has suddenly fallen ill and he knows exactly why.

ALEXEY NAVALNY, RUSSIAN OPPOSITION LEADER: I get out of this bathroom, shown (ph) over to the flight attendant and said, I was poisoned, I'm going to die. And then I laid down under his feet and to -- to die.

WARD (on camera): You knew in that moment that you'd been poisoned.

NAVALNY: Yes. Yes.

WARD (voice over): Quick thinking from the pilots saves his life. Instead of flying on to Moscow, still three hours away, the plane diverts to Omsk. Two days later, Navalny is flow to Berlin, where the German government announces he has been poisoned with the nerve agent Novichok. Now an exclusive investigation can reveal a top secret mission

tracking Navalny, involving experts in chemical weapons who work for the FSB, the Russian successor to the Soviet KGB.

This non-descript building on the outskirts of Moscow was the headquarters of the operation.

WARD (on camera): We're staying in the car because we don't want to attract any attention, but this compound is part of the institute of criminalistics of the FSB, Russia's security service. And beyond that fence, an elite team of operatives has been tracking Navalny's every move for more than three years.

WARD (voice over): CNN has examined hundreds of pages of phone records and flight manifests that reveal the backgrounds, communications, and travel of the group. The documents were obtained by online investigative outlet Bellingcat, which two years ago identified the Russian military intelligence agents allegedly sent to England to poison former Russian spy Sergei Skripal.

The FSB toxins team was activated in 2017, just days after Navalny announced he would run for president in the election the next year. The team's leader, Stanislas Makshakov, an expert in chemical weapons. Several of the team are doctors, but they weren't recruited to save lives.

WARD (on camera): I just wanted to show you some photographs here, and ask you if you -- if you recognize -- if you've ever seen any of the men in those photographs.

[09:50:00]

NAVALNY: No.

WARD: You don't recognize them?

NAVALNY: I don't recognize any of them.

WARD: Would it surprise you to learn that some of these men went on more than 30 trips with you over the course of three years.

NAVALNY: This is absolutely terrifying. I don't know if terrifying is a good word.

WARD: I think it's a pretty good word.

NAVALNY: Yes, but the -- well, I understand how system work in Russia. I understand that the -- that Putin hates me. And I understand that these people who are sitting in the Kremlin, they are ready to kill.

WARD: Is it your contention that Vladimir Putin must have been aware of this?

NAVALNY: Of course. One hundred percent. It could have not been happened without direct order of Putin, because it's -- well, it's big scale. WARD (voice over): In the weeks before he was poisoned, Navalny and

his wife, Yulia, took a short vacation to a resort in Kaliningrad. Our investigation has uncovered that the FSB team followed. According to Bellingcat, the security cameras inside the hotel were mysteriously turned off while they were there.

Navalny says Yulia felt uncomfortable. She took videos and photos of men she believed were following them. This man I also don't recognize, she says. Hours after the FSB's toxin team left Kaliningrad, Yulia suddenly felt sick.

NAVALNY: She said, well, I feel really, really bad. Do we need ambulance? No. Do we have time (ph)? Is it heart? No. Is it stomach? No. Is it head? No. Could you describe it? No. And then we approach restaurant and she said, well, I feel like worse in my life. I never felt it before, but, unfortunately -- and, of course, I couldn't connect these dots. Now I -- now I realize how bad she was.

WARD: Yulia recovered, but the FSB unit was apparently not done with the Navalny's.

WARD (on camera): In the days after Kaliningrad, cell phone data shows that several senior FSB officials were in regular contact with a lab in this compound. It's called The Signal Institute and CNN and Bellingcat have established that it has been involved with researching and developing Novichok.

WARD (voice over): In mid-August, Navalny and his team travelled to Siberia. At least five members of the FSB unit make the same journey on different flights. In Tomsk, Navalny and his colleagues stay at the Xander Hotel.

We traveled to the Siberian city to retrace his steps on the night he was poisoned.

WARD (on camera): So this is the room that Alexey Navalny was staying in, and it looks like my room here is right next door.

WARD (voice over): According to Navalny, he went to bed at around midnight after drinking a cocktail with his team. The FSB's toxins unit was not far away.

WARD (on camera): Using a ping from a cell phone, we've been able to place one of the FSB operatives in this area, just blocks from the Xander Hotel on the night of August 19th, the night that the nerve agent Novichok made its way into room 239.

WARD (voice over): Navalny left the hotel early the next morning. He boarded the Moscow flight feeling fine. Three hours later, he was close to death.

Back in Tomsk, Navalny's team frantically collect any evidence they can from his hotel room, including water and shampoo bottles, a toothbrush and a towel. As they did, there was a surge in communications among the FSB unit and their bosses. If it was expected that Navalny would die on the flight, they were now scrambling to deal with a very different situation.

After much back and forth, Russian authorities allow Navalny to be transported to Berlin. What they don't know is that the items recovered from his Tomsk hotel room were also on board. Some later tested positive for Novichok.

Back in Moscow, we went in search of the FSB's toxin team.

WARD (on camera): So we're here now at the home of one of the FSB team and we're going to go see if he has anything to say to us.

WARD (voice over): We enter a rundown apartment building on the outskirts of Moscow, where operatives Oleg Tayakin lives.

WARD (on camera): (speaking in foreign language). My name's Clarissa Ward. I work for CNN. Can I ask you a couple of questions? (speaking in foreign language). Was it your team that poisoned Navalny, please?

[09:55:04]

Do you have any comment?

He doesn't seem to want to talk to us.

WARD (voice over): Toxicologists tell CNN that Navalny is incredibly lucky to be alive and that the intention was undoubtedly to kill him.

WARD (on camera): So you've said that you want to go back to Russia.

NAVALNY: And I will do.

WARD: You're aware of the risks of going back?

NAVALNY: Yes, but I'm Russian politician. And even when I was not just in hospital, I was in intense (INAUDIBLE) and I said publicly I will go back and I will go back because I'm Russian politician and I belong to this country. And definitely which I -- I -- especially now when these actual crime is cracked open, revealed. I understand the whole operation. I would never give Putin such a gift.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD: Now, to be clear, Anderson, CNN has not established that the men in this FSB unit, who were tracking Navalny, are the same people who actually poisoned him. We have, of course, reached out to the Kremlin, to the FSB. We've reached out, as you saw, to some of the members of the team. None of them have responded. And we can only hope, according to the FSB, to get some kind of reaction, they said, possibly in nine days. No criminal investigation, unsurprisingly, has been opened here, Anderson.

COOPER: Clarissa, this is incredible. I mean I'm just stunned by your reporting on this. How -- first of all, I mean, you went up to the door of a -- of a guy on this -- from this FSB team. I mean I'm just -- I just -- this is just an extraordinary report and I really hope everybody sees this. How would Navalny like to see the U.S. respond to the investigation?

WARD: Well, I think he's -- you know, he's been very disappointed with the lack of what he would call a robust U.S. response so far, from the U.K., from the European Union, we've seen them call it an assassination attempt. We've seen them come out with sanctions against some of the FSB's leadership and also Kremlin leadership.

And so he would like to see a robust response from the U.S. He wants to see the U.S. come out, quote, on the right side of history on this one, to take a stance against the use of chemical weapons and he would also like to see, Anderson, some strong sanctions levied against not just the leadership but against the wealthy elites that surround President Putin.

COOPER: You say in your piece that the intention was to kill him. How do toxicologists know that?

WARD: Well, this is interesting. Our Tim Lister (ph) has spent weeks talking with, you know, more than half a dozen of these experts, chemists, toxicologists and essentially, Anderson, it comes down to this, you can't dose a nerve agent like Novichok outside of a laboratory. So the minute you're using Novichok outside of a laboratory, the only possible intention is to kill. If you were only seeking to incapacitate, you would simply choose a different nerve agent.

And it is critical to remember that Navalny was supposed to be on that airplane for another three hours. Everyone, again, who we spoke to said the same thing, if it hadn't been for that pilot turning around, if it hadn't been for those medics on the ground who gave him atropine as he landed, it would have been a very different outcome for Alexey Navalny.

COOPER: And one of the things that's so striking about this story is not just the extent of the operation tailing Navalny and his wife, but also that the Russians seem clearly are still developing chemical weapons. I mean surely that's in contravention of international law.

WARD: It absolutely is in contravention of international law and actually in -- in contravention of U.S. law too, 1991 legislation. We've already seen a bipartisan group of senators come out and presenting that legislation as, you know, a reason why the U.S. should be taking firmer action and showing a firmer response to this poisoning. We have identified, along with Bellingcat, at least two, and quite possibly more, laboratories here in Moscow, also in St. Petersburg, other parts of the country, that continue to research, develop and produce Novichok, and not just Novichok, Anderson, other chemical agents too.

COOPER: Well, I mean, not only the bravery of Navalny saying he wants to go back, and his wife videotaping, you know, people who she believes are following them when they were on their vacation and also just, frankly, the bravery of you and your team is really just extraordinary.

Thank you so much for this report, Clarissa.

WARD: Thank you.

COOPER: Erin, back to you.

BURNETT: And I'm Erin Burnett, alongside Anderson. And we welcome all of you joining us now, our viewers here in the United States and around the world, because this is our special live coverage of two historic events unfolding right now.

[10:00:09]