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Voters Hitting Polls in Critical Election Senate Majority at Stake; Divided GOP Set for Fierce Showdown Over Biden Win; Trump Confident Ahead of Congressional Vote-Count; Ambulance Crews Told Not to Bring Patients with Low Survival Chance. Aired 9-9:30a ET

Aired January 05, 2021 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:00:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: The Senate, and how effective a Biden administration will be with its legislative agenda. Already more than three million early votes cast but we're not expecting to know the results right away tonight. Remember, it took days to project Biden's win in the state.

And, Poppy, it's expected this one will be close.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, patience is a virtue. All of this on the eve of what will be a fierce showdown tomorrow on Capitol Hill, a deep and growing divide among Republicans in both chambers of Congress over certifying President-elect Biden's electoral college win. Despite no proof and more than 50 failed legal fights, the president and his allies are still alleging voter fraud. The president is not just putting pressure on Congress, he is now also piling it on his own vice president to challenge the results.

We're following all of this and the latest across the state of Georgia. So let's begin with our national correspondent Ryan Young in Cobb County, Georgia.

Good morning, Ryan. Big day.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely big day. You can feel the energy here. Well, look, when we arrived here before 6:00 a.m. this morning there was already someone sitting at the door ready to vote. We saw poll workers arrive shortly afterwards and there was a line that kind of stretched around the building of this church as people lined up to go inside. So far that morning rush has been over, people have gotten on the inside, able to get in and out very quickly to do their vote.

We've been talking to people and they say they've been excited about this because they want all the ads to end. Let's not forget, more than $500 million has been spent just in this state to get out the election. Over three million people have voted early.

We saw this voter who was walking out and I just wanted to ask you the question, what brought you here today, especially with all the excitement centered around who may control the Senate?

JOE SWANEY, GEORGIA VOTER: Well, I think there are a couple of reasons why I came today. One, there's a responsibility I have as a citizen of the United States to come out and exercise my right to vote. There's many people around the world that don't have this privilege. So I want to do that. Two, I know that the entire country is looking at Georgia right now as to what our decision is going to be. So I needed to at least make my voice be heard through the exercising my right to vote.

YOUNG: Have you been disappointed at all with how just cantankerous this has been especially over the last few days?

SWANEY: I think it's been discouraging yet it shouldn't surprise us because the entire election system has been that way. I think there's a lot of misrepresentation of candidates out there, just going for the jugular, presenting everybody in the worst possible way they could be, and I've really tried to ignore that and look mainly at the issues and what are the things that I care about most and vote in that way.

YOUNG: Do you have any way you want to share with us, where you leaned, left, right, center? Where did you go?

SWANEY: You know, I hate -- it's interesting. I am -- have been a lifelong Republican, this is the first time I've ever voted for a Democratic candidate just because there are issues regarding our environment, regarding taxation, regarding diversity issues and so forth that I think need to be addressed, and I'm hoping they will be with a Senate that can actually help encourage and enact President Biden's policies.

YOUNG: Thank you so much for stopping by. I appreciate that.

One other note, everyone has been wearing a mask so far as they're going in. Let's not forget, one political candidate is quarantining at home, David Perdue, after being close to someone with COVID-19. Guys?

SCIUTTO: And yes, the voters are coming in record numbers and that's something to be celebrated.

Ryan Young, thanks very much.

Well, CNN's Gary Tuchman, he is in Atlanta this morning.

Gary, I don't have to remind you, it took days for Fulton County which encompasses Atlanta to tally all the general election votes from November 3rd. Are officials there expecting a similarly drawn-out count there with these runoff races?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim, a very valid question. Fulton County officials think that things will go smoothly tonight. They have processed early votes and they expect to start counting those early votes with the votes from today when the polls close at 7:00. There are 264 precincts here in Fulton County, and 263 of those 264 we've been told everything is going smoothly so far.

In the 264th, the one we're standing in, we can tell you firsthand since we've been here observing it the whole time at this Cathedral of St. Phillip in the Buckhead neighborhood in Atlanta things are going very smoothly. It was very crowded when the day began, 50 people rushed in to vote, relatively quiet now. But don't think that's because of apathy. It's the contrary. Here in Fulton County, the largest county in the state, 390,000, above that number, that's the -- 390,000 or more voted early.

And to put that in some kind of context, that 390,000 number is about 75 percent of the total votes from the presidential general election in November. So people here are very eager to vote. Everyone we're talking to, all the voters coming in, all very aware of President Trump's telephone conversation with the Georgia secretary of state criticizing Georgia voting, criticizing voting here in Fulton County.

[09:05:10]

The very first person to cast a ballot today was the chairman of the Fulton County Board of Commissioners, and I asked him about what the president said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBB PITTS, CHAIRMAN, FULTON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS: It's a little irritating to wake up and to hear people at the highest positions in the country talking, saying negative things about Fulton County when I know for a fact that is not true because if it were true I would be on top of it, and would have put a stop to it. It just did not happen in Fulton County.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Here is an interesting aside for you. To come in and vote, you know, we're all wearing masks obviously, and we haven't seen anyone come in without masks, the poll workers have masks all day. Today and in November, all across the country, these poll workers are genuine American heroes, but here in Fulton County and elsewhere there is no rule that you have to wear a mask to vote.

If you don't want to wear a mask they're told not to say anything about it. If you want to bring your pet in here, your dog, your cat, your goldfish, you're allowed to do that. They just want people to vote -- Jim and Poppy.

HARLOW: Gary Tuchman, it's good to see a big turnout. Hopefully people do wear the masks and keep it safe. Thanks very much.

We want to go to Savannah, Georgia, now, voting under way there. It's where we find our colleague Martin Savidge.

Good morning, Martin. Democrats hoping to repeat success that they found in Chatham County in November, right?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Poppy. Chatham County, especially Savannah, the city of Savannah where we're located just outside the Civic Center now, is one of those heavy Democratic areas. Just to give you an idea, it's the hometown of Reverend Raphael Warnock, one of the candidates that are running for the Senate. And then also the mayor of Savannah was one of the electors that voted for Joe Biden. So that gives you an indication of the community here.

Early voting like in many places in Georgia set records, especially when you're considering this is a runoff election. They had about double the turnout they normally would expect for a runoff election, but there was a line of about 10 people this morning when the poll opened. Now it's been pretty quiet. In fact, we're in that period which is considered one of the heavier voting times and yet the numbers of people going in and out has been relatively small.

That said, though, we've already pointed out they did record early voting. In fact, the early votes tabulated so far in Chatham County, about 69,600, and they anticipate that maybe they will add to that about 40,000 additional votes today when they start tabulating those votes, which is after the polls close at 7:00. They'll begin with the absentee ballots and then of course the early voting in-person ballots, and then they'll add in the day of voting.

And a lot of people want to know, well, when will they finally be done with all the counting? The estimate is here, Friday. The reason they say Friday is because there are a number of ballots, including the provisional and discrepancy ballots as well as military ballots that have until 5:00 on Friday to either be received or rectified.

So look to Friday, Poppy and Jim.

SCIUTTO: Typically day of voting favors Republicans and the early voting to this point has favored Democrats. We'll see if that's notable there. Martin Savidge, thanks very much.

So how did we get here with these two runoff elections deciding control of the Senate? Let's bring in CNN's Phil Mattingly for a breakdown on these two crucial runoff races.

And Phil, I mean, the reason we're here at this point, right, is that Democrats underperformed in Senate races in the general election. It was widely expect that they might gain more seats than they did.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's exactly right. Right now it's at 48 to 50 and these two races are going to decide who controls the United States Senate, but first let's take a look back to November. Obviously the big headline was right here, Joe Biden beating Donald Trump, first Democrat presidential candidate to win the state of Georgia in 28 years.

But dig a little deeper into the numbers and into those Senate races. We'll start with David Perdue versus Jon Ossoff. Again, in the middle of a repeat of that race right now, David Perdue outran Donald Trump, outran Donald Trump by about 90,000 votes, and beat Jon Ossoff. However, 49.7 percent that falls just shy of the 50 percent threshold, now they are in a runoff.

Take a look at the Senate special election as well. You can't necessarily glean the numbers too perfectly out of this, there are a number of candidates, four total, Raphael Warnock now running against Kelly Loeffler. If you put the totals of Democratic votes and Republican votes together, again, Republicans outrunning Democrats.

Now, the big question going into this day, guys, obviously is it's very difficult to model a runoff campaign. You are not going to see general election-type turnout, however, going into today 3 million more -- 3 million plus early votes in 2008, the last runoff that happened in Georgia, 2.1 million. So the enthusiasm is there.

I think the big question now is, what is it going to mean for this? Will it change this current balance of power? Right now, again, 50-48, the states are filled in. If they're red those are states that Republicans held in November, if they're blue those are states that Democrats held or won in November. Two are missing. Those two will dictate who controls the U.S. Senate.

[09:10:04]

SCIUTTO: Yes. It's remarkable that a tie is the best result for Democrats. With -- if that were to happen the vice president of course breaking ties.

All right, let's look at counties because when you look at these states you've got big differences in counties around the urban areas and more rural counties in Georgia.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Let's make one thing abundantly clear up front. This is not about flipping voters. This is not about persuasion. This is not about flipping counties from November, this is about running up your numbers and holding down the margins in the counties that you aren't favored in.

If you are a Democrat whether Jon Ossoff or Raphael Warnock, you are looking right here, you are looking at Gwinnett County, Jon Ossoff 58 percent, 56 percent. This was a county if you flip back to 2014, back to 2014 David Perdue won this county handily. Jon Ossoff won this county handily. However, Jon Ossoff underran Joe Biden by about two points. So if you're a Democrat you want that county to come in and Biden-like numbers.

Another county where Ryan was, Cobb County, again, Joe Biden this used to be a Republican county this, used to be in the suburbs of Atlanta where Republicans voted, Joe Biden blew out Donald Trump here. Take a look at what Jon Ossoff did here, underran Joe Biden again. So if you're a Democrat you're looking at those two key counties.

Now, if you're David Perdue, if you're Kelly Loeffler. where are you looking? A voter rich county, Cherokee County. Obviously you see the huge margin here. David Perdue actually outrunning Donald Trump in Cherokee County. Republicans need to bank major votes in Cherokee. But another interesting thing to watch, where was Donald Trump last night? He was in Whitfield County. He was in Dalton, Georgia.

You look at these numbers, it's 35,000, 36,000 votes. Not a huge number here, however, this is a barometer. David Perdue underran Donald Trump in this area. If David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler want to lock up Georgia, guys, they need to win right here, north Georgia, that is Republican stronghold and they need to run up vote big in those counties.

SCIUTTO: OK. So those counties, big ones to watch. Is there one specific area of the state that you're keying in on that could tell the story? Oftentimes you have areas like that. Bell-weathers for the larger result.

MATTINGLY: Yes. You know, I think the most interesting element right now, if you're a Democrat what you're watching right now is you're watching right here. You're watching right here. That's kind of the black belt of Georgia, it's rural, it's African-American, it's an area that, look, I'm going to pull this up. Counties that Raphael Warnock won, he basically swept through the black belt.

However, counties that Jon Ossoff won, you see a number of those counties disappear and a number of those counties Warnock won were actually Trump counties, were actually David Perdue counties. If Raphael Warnock's presence in this race can boost Jon Ossoff in these counties, if they can turn out black voters in these counties like they plan to do in Dekalb, like they plan to do in Fulton, that could go a very long way to deciding this race.

That has been a focus. Keep an eye on this area right here. It may decide who wins this race, who wins these races and who controls the U.S. Senate -- guys.

SCIUTTO: Phil Mattingly, we'll be watching closely. We know you will. Thanks very much.

HARLOW: Totally fascinating. Phil, thank you.

Still to come, a lot for us. Bracing for this battle tomorrow on Capitol Hill. Republicans divided over the push to fight Biden's election win. How will it all actually play out? We will tell you.

And devastation across Los Angeles. L.A. County ambulance crews now being directed not to transport patients with little chance of survival to the hospitals because of the just unreal COVID situation there. We will take you to California live.

SCIUTTO: That's just distressing in America in 2021.

And the National Guard is being deployed to D.C. where -- during pro- Trump demonstrations today and tomorrow. What they're expecting to see just ahead.

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[09:15:00]

HARLOW: It is supposed to just be a formality, but tomorrow's vote to certify the presidential election results is going to be a fierce and ugly fight.

SCIUTTO: Keep in mind, all 50 states already certified their votes --

HARLOW: Right. SCIUTTO: This is purely ceremonial to count them by the constitution,

but there's a deep divide growing among Republicans over challenging Biden's win, it's an effort that's almost certain to fail. CNN's Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill. Lauren, you do have a number of senators who are now public, a far greater number of members of the house, but still in the minority there. Tell us how we expect this to play out tomorrow with the normal caveats that you never know.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER: Exactly. I mean, I think, Jim, there's still a lot we don't know about how tomorrow will play out, largely how long it's all going to take. But look, this is a ceremonial effort, this is supposed to be something that most viewers back home probably don't even remember seeing on television because it's not typically a very big deal.

The challenges to the election have only come twice and they've easily been batted down. Now, we expect that tomorrow, there is going to be at least one objection to the state of Pennsylvania. Essentially, there is a joint session of Congress that starts tomorrow afternoon.

After that session starts, there will be a reading of each state's electors and there will be a tally made by the Senate and house tellers, those are the top members of the House Administration Committee and the Senate Rules Committee.

At any point, as a state is being read, an individual, a senator and a house member can issue an objection in writing. Once, that is submitted, the presiding officer who we expect is going to be the vice president tomorrow will essentially pause the joint session, the senators will go back to their chamber, the house will continue this debate in their own chamber, and what we expect is up to two hours of debate.

At the end of that debate -- and we don't know whether or not, any Republicans are going to be speaking up outside of these objections that they're going to be trying to convince their colleagues not to go through with this or not during that debate, but at the end of this debate, there will be a vote in each chamber, because the house is still operating under these pandemic procedures, we expect the house vote could take longer of course than the Senate vote. Then, they will come back together in the joint session and continue going through each state.

[09:20:00]

Now, like I said, we don't know how many objections there are going to be. Senator Josh Hawley has made it very clear, he's going to object to the state of Pennsylvania, I'm told he's still considering other states he could object to, and we know that Senator Ted Cruz and other members are looking at whether or not they want to object to other states.

Now, all along, Majority leader Mitch McConnell has been trying to discourage members to go through with this. Now that members are on the record saying they're going to file these objections, I'm told that the majority leader is giving members some breathing room to make a decision for themselves, whether or not they're going to vote to support these challenges or not. Jim and Poppy.

SCIUTTO: We should note, Hawley is objecting to Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania's own Republican senator has rejected that and acknowledged President-elect Biden as president. But here we are. Lauren Fox on the Hill as always, we know you'll be watching. Thanks very much. Well, the current President Trump seems to be hoping that Vice President Mike Pence will pull a hail Mary tomorrow despite what the constitution says, when Congress votes on certifying -- really counting the electoral college.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I hope Mike Pence comes through for us. I have to tell you.

(CHEERS)

I hope that our great vice president -- our great vice president comes through for us. He is a great guy. Of course, if he doesn't come through, I won't like him quite as much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Wow. Just think about that. Threat to his own vice president. Anyways --

SCIUTTO: Yes --

HARLOW: That is what the president said at that rally in Georgia last night, but Pence has no power really in the certification process, it's again, largely ceremonial. John Harwood joins us now. Good morning to you, John. I mean, were you even -- were you surprised by that direct pressure on Pence who has really stood in lock-step with this president the whole way through?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I wasn't, Poppy, because Donald Trump views everyone around him as serving his interest. He regarded his attorney general as his personal lawyer. He talks about my generals at the Pentagon.

And he not recognizing abstract concepts like law or propriety believes that, well, if Mike Pence is going to read the votes, he could change the votes or he could reject the votes. That's not the case, as you noted in the intro, all 50 states have certified their results, there's no getting around that. There will be debate and votes in Congress, but those votes will go against the president.

And you can actually see him in that comment putting pressure on Pence, anticipating that it would go against him. I hope that he will come through for us, if not I won't like him so much. It is predictable as the day is long, that when this doesn't work out, he will be criticizing all the people who did not come through for him as he said. He did it last night in Georgia about the Supreme Court.

He said the Supreme Court isn't stepping up to the plate. We all remember when the healthcare attempt to repeal Obamacare did not happen, he attacked the Republicans for not making it happen, and he will attack Mitch McConnell for not making it happen.

That we know all those things are going to happen and for Mike Pence, the challenge is to try to get out of this situation with minimal blow-back from the president and persuading enough Republicans that, well, whatever I could do, I did. So you can expect that he will voice some support for the debate, for the raising of questions about fraud without actually trying to reverse the votes, which of course he doesn't have the power --

SCIUTTO: Right --

HARWOOD: To do.

HARLOW: John, thank you very much, we appreciate the reporting at the White House. Let's bring in former Trump White House lawyer Jim Schultz. Jim, it's really good to have you here. And if we could put --

JIM SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: Yes --

HARLOW: You're a Republican, you worked in the Trump White House, but putting politics aside for a moment there is no question that this stunt tomorrow will further divide a deeply divided country in the middle of a crisis, right? In the middle of this pandemic, in the middle of this economic crisis. And I wonder if you have a message for your fellow Republicans in the house, in the Senate, who are going to do this tomorrow?

SCHULTZ: Look, I think tomorrow is going to come and go, and then the country is going to come together. But I also think for my fellow Republicans -- I think the senator from Pennsylvania, Pat Toomey has struck the right tone on this and the right message, so has Liz Cheney in the house.

They've done a very nice job with that. They have come out against -- on this issue as I think is appropriate. You know, there's -- this is not the place to be arguing about this past election. If you're going to go -- votes, you'll find -- and before the election -- through your ID and identification and to get out the -- now is not the time to be doing that.

HARLOW: Right --

SCHULTZ: That being said, I think state legislatures around the country have every right to look at making their elections more secure, having hearings, doing all the things that legislatures do when they look at how to protect the process.

[09:25:00]

HARLOW: Sure. They can do it in due course, like they can every year, right? And they can change their rules and their process, et cetera. You have been really supportive --

SCHULTZ: Yes -- HARLOW: Of Kelly Loeffler and -- Senators Loeffler and Perdue, and

you want them or you wanted them up until this morning at least, to hold on to their seats. I wonder now if you still feel the same, and if you are as supportive of them. After last night, they both joined this effort, they're both also, you know, going to oppose --

SCHULTZ: But this is what --

HARLOW: This vote-count.

SCHULTZ: We're going to have a difference of opinion on some things, we're going to agree on some things, we're going to disagree on others. That's what makes this country great. And yes, I support them both wholeheartedly and continue to support them both --

HARLOW: You think --

SCHULTZ: I helped them -- I helped them in fundraising, I'm going to help -- I would help them in any way, shape or -- any way possible. But I do think at the end of the day, it's better for this country to have a Republican Senate and Mitch McConnell to remain majority leader to hold this new administration coming in accountable.

HARLOW: Clearly, they're joining into this that you oppose doesn't change your view of them, you have a number of other reasons you support them. What about the call, the call that I'm sure you've read the transcript or listened to the whole thing that the president had over the weekend with Georgia Secretary of State? You were in charge of ethics, I mean, you were an ethics official in the White House. That was your role as a counsel in the White House. Do you believe that the president's call with Georgia's Secretary of State Raffensperger was ethical?

SCHULTZ: Look, there's no lawyer in their right mind that's going to recommend that, that call take place. Look, I was general -- I was also general counsel to a governor in a very large state in Pennsylvania, and when the president called the governor, that was a big deal. When the president calls the Secretary of State, that's unheard of.

That just doesn't happen. And in this context, there's no way the president should even be talking to the Secretary of State, that's something that staff and other folks should be doing. Let alone the message that he was conveying during that call. It just wasn't -- it wasn't the right tone, it wasn't the right message, it wasn't the right thing to say. There were so many things wrong with that phone call.

HARLOW: So given what you heard in that phone call, that you just made clear you oppose in every way, and given what you've seen in terms of the president claiming fraud that doesn't exist over and over again, and lying to millions of Americans about it, would you work for him again?

SCHULTZ: Look, I went into that -- I went into that job -- would I go and serve my country again and serve in the White House counsel's office, absolutely if asked to do it. It's an honorable job, it's something you want to go in and do, and quite frankly, as the lawyer in that office, you have a lot of responsibility to call balls and strikes if you see them, and that's what I did when I was in there, and that's what I'd do if I went back.

HARLOW: Jim, finally, I'm sure you saw Preet Bharara's tweet saying the odds of Trump declaring a self pardon just went up a bunch. He said that yesterday. Do you agree? You know, does the president preemptively need to pardon himself? Do you think he will here --

SCHULTZ: I don't know if the president is going to -- I don't -- sorry to interrupt you. It's --

HARLOW: No, it's OK.

SCHULTZ: No, I don't know if the president is going to -- is going to grant himself a pardon or not. I can't tell you --

HARLOW: Would you advise him to if you were his direct counsel?

SCHULTZ: Look, there are constitutional scholars that look at this a number of different ways as to whether he actually can do it or not do it. You know, does he -- does this particular instance make it more likely or not, I would disagree with Preet on that. I think if he was going to grant himself a pardon, that decision was made up some time ago I would imagine. I don't think this has any impact as to whether he does it or not. So, no, I don't think it really impacts it.

HARLOW: Jim Schultz, thank you for coming on this morning.

SCHULTZ: Thank you. Take care.

HARLOW: Jim?

SCIUTTO: We'll see if he's right on that pardon.

HARLOW: Right.

SCIUTTO: Right now, an American dies -- listen to this, this gets to the scale here -- an American, perhaps someone you know, dies from coronavirus every 33 seconds. Two, a minute. And medical resources are so strained in southern California that ambulance crews are now being told not to transport patients with little chance of survival. Think about that for a moment. We'll have more.

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