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Congress Convenes To Affirm President-Elect Biden's Win. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 06, 2021 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:00:00]

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Received the electoral college results. They got the boxes over there. The electoral college convenes. Let's listen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madame Speaker, the vice president and the United States Senate.

(APPLAUSE)

BLITZER: All right. So there you have it. The senators, led by the vice president of the United States in his role under the Constitution, he's also the president of the Senate if there's a tie. The vice president as president of the Senate breaks that tie. We're watching them walk in.

Let's talk a little bit, John, about what we're seeing. This is a significant moment in the vice president's history right now because he is clearly deviating dramatically from what the president himself said within the past hour.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. If you read the statement, and I was reading as Jim Acosta was reading some, but I read the vice president essentially saying, sorry, Mr. President, I have to do my job, I have to follow the Constitution, which means he understands now he is going to be at war with his boss.

Donald Trump holds grudges. We know that. We've watched it. We've seen that play out. So Mike Pence who's still has political ambitions of his own, whether it's to be president, whether it's to go back to Indiana and do something, knows now that his boss, the president of the United States, will oppose him.

BLITZER: There you see the vice president, who's the president of the Senate, and the Speaker Nancy Pelosi there leading this joint session, a historic moment, indeed, John. We've seen these moments before. Usually it's just a nice photo opportunity, a nice ceremonial moment, but today as we've pointed out it's not a normal day.

KING: It's not a normal day. And the toxicity, the dust cloud of conspiracy that is the Trump presidency, sometimes obscures, it's a remarkable moment in history. The next time we see a joint session it will be the female speaker of the House and the female vice president of the United States. Two women in the number two, in the number three positions, line of succession to the president of the United States. A woman of color as vice president of the United States.

This should be a historic moment. I know Republicans are mad. They lost. They have 2022 midterms and '24 presidential election to fix that, if they want, to organize and to vote. But what should be a celebration of democracy again becomes a toxic political environment because the president even just moments ago steps from that Capitol, steps from the White House, in the middle if you will, out on the ellipse, saying he won the election. He did not.

Joe Biden won the election fair and square. It should be done. This should be a celebration. Instead it's a controversy.

BLITZER: I'm sure it was not an easy decision for the vice president to so publicly and dramatically tell the president of the United States you are wrong. I have to do what the Constitution wants.

We're seeing the leaders of the House and the Senate. You see Chuck Schumer, he -- assuming the second Senate seat goes in the Democratic way, John, it looks like it will happen, Schumer is going to be the majority leader and Mitch McConnell is going to be the minority leader.

KING: He is. And that is a dramatic change in its own right. A big change in the dynamic of power here. Look, it'll be very narrow. The narrowest possible Democratic majority. But what a different world that will be for Joe Biden in the floor of the Senate.

You mentioned the one outstanding Georgia race. I was just looking, there are about 60,000 plus, a little over 60,000 votes outstanding, more than 50,000 of them come from counties that voted either by a decent margin or a bigger margin for Democrats. Jon Ossoff's lead is going to grow. It's just without doubt. So that if you will is a backdrop for this.

The Republicans are going to stand up and object to math. Object to democracy. Object to what the Constitution of the United States says today. They have to know that just yesterday in Georgia, again a state that has been ruby red for a generation, just said no and sent one and probably most likely two Democrats to Washington, including a black man in Senator-elect Warnock. And so the Republicans have to know that.

That's why you see this divide. This, instead of being a celebration of American democracy, and again sure, the Republicans lost, they have hard feelings about it, but this is supposed to be a day where you put all that aside and celebrate. Instead Republicans have to be looking over their shoulders a little bit.

This is a side choosing day. Do you stay with Trump or do you decide that chapter is going to be over and I'm willing to break from him? This is going to be fascinating.

BLITZER: We see those mahogany boxes that the result from the electoral college. And let's not forget, John, that Biden won this election and the national popular vote by more than seven million votes. All of 50 -- hold on a second. REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): -- order for this important historic

meeting. Let us remind that each side, House and Senate, Democrats and Republicans, each have 11 members allowed to be present on the floor, others may be in the gallery. This is at the guidance of the officiating attending physician and the sergeants-at-arm.

The gentleman on the Republican side of the aisle will please observe the social distancing and agree to what we have 11 members on each side so that we can -- responsibilities to this chamber, to this responsibility and to this House of Representatives.

[13:05:03]

Please exit the floor if you do not have an assigned role from your leadership. You can share with your staff if you want to have a few more but you cannot be that together on the floor of the House, with that many people in here. And I thank the Senate and the Democrat -- by the rule. Let's go. Let's just start. OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madame Speaker --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vice President -- Mr. Vice President --

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Madame Speaker, members of Congress, pursuant to the Constitution and the laws of the United States, the Senate and House of Representatives are meeting in joint session to verify the certificates and count the votes of the electors of the several states for president and vice president of the United States.

After ascertainment has been had that the certificates are authentic and correct in form, the tellers will count and make a list of the votes cast by the electors of the several states. The tellers on the part of the two Houses have taken their places at the clerk's desk. Without objection the tellers will dispense with the reading of the formal portions of the certificates.

After ascertaining that the certificates are regular in form and authentic, the tellers will announce the votes cast for the electors for each state beginning with Alabama, which the parliamentarians advise me is the only certificate of vote from that state and purports to be a return from the state and that has annexed to it a certificate from an authority of that state purporting to appoint or ascertain electors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vice President, point of order.

BIDEN: For what purpose does the gentleman from Virginia rise?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Point of order. Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Vice president, in order to follow with the speaker's instructions that only a limited number of people be on the floor, may I ask, how one would make an objection or make a parliamentary inquiry in the future if you're not on the floor but in the gallery?

BIDEN: Title 3 of the United States Code debate is not permitted in the joint session.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parliamentary inquiry, Mr. Vice President. I am not --

BIDEN: Gentleman's recognized.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not attempting to debate, I'm trying to find out how a parliamentary inquiry or a parliamentary point of order would be made in following with the speaker's request that most of us not be on the floor. How do you make one of those points of order when you don't know what's going to happen later?

BIDEN: Respectfully --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

BIDEN: The gentleman's parliamentary inquiry constitutes debate which is not permitted in the Joint Session under Section 18 of Title 3 United States Code. With that, Mr. Blunt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The House is not in order.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that is on?

BIDEN: I don't believe it's on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Try it one more time.

BIDEN: Is it working?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They think it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.

BIDEN: OK. OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you ready?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's get order.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They think it's working so try again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President?

BIDEN: Order in the chamber.

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): Mr. President, the --

BIDEN: Gentleman will continue.

BLUNT: The certificate of the electoral vote in the state of Alabama seems to be regular in form and authentic and it appears there from that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received nine votes for president and Michael R. Pence of the state of Indiana received nine votes for vice president.

[13:10:00]

BIDEN: Are there any objections to counting the certificate of vote of the state of Alabama that the teller has verified appears to be regular in form and authentic? Hearing none.

This certificate from Alaska, the parliamentarian's advised me is only certificate of vote from that state that purports to be a return from the state and that has annexed to it a certificate from an authority of the state purporting to appoint and ascertain electors.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Mr. President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Alaska seems to be regular in form and authentic. And it appears there from that Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida received three votes for president and Michael R. Pence of the state of Indiana received three votes for vice president.

BIDEN: Are there any objections to counting the certificate of vote of the state of Alaska that the teller has verified appears to be regular in form and authentic? Hearing none.

This certificate from Arizona, the parliamentarian's advised me is the only certificate of vote from that state that purports to be a return from the state and that has annexed to it a certificate from an authority of that state purporting to appoint or ascertain electors.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Mr. President, the certificate of the electoral vote of the state of Arizona seems to be regular in form and authentic. And it appears there from that Joseph R. Biden Jr. of the state of Delaware received 11 votes for president and Kamala D. Harris of the state of California received 11 votes for vice president.

BIDEN: Are there any objections to counting the certificate of vote of the state of Arizona that the teller has verified appears to be regular in form and authentic?

REP. PAUL GOSAR (R-AZ): Mr. Vice president, I, Paul Gosar from Arizona --

BIDEN: For what purpose does the gentleman rise?

GOSAR: I rise for myself and 60 of my colleagues to object to the counting of the electoral ballots from Arizona.

BIDEN: Is the objection in writing and signed by a senator?

GOSAR: Yes, it is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is. (APPLAUSE)

BIDEN: An objection presented in writing and signed by both a representative and a senator complies with the law Chapter 1 of Title 3 of the United States Code. The clerk will report the objection.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Objection to counting the electoral votes of the state of Arizona. We, a member of the House of Representatives and a United States senator, object to the counting of the electoral votes of the state of Arizona on the grounds that they were not under all of the known circumstances regularly given.

BIDEN: Are there further objections to the certificates from the state of Arizona? The chair hears none. The two Houses will withdraw from Joint Session. Each House will deliberate separately on the pending objection and report its decision back to the Joint Session. The Senate will now retire to its chamber.

BLITZER: All right. So there you have it. The first objection they're going to be separated now. The senators will go back to the floor of the U.S. Senate, they will debate for two hours. They'll have a limited amount of speaking opportunities for all these various senators.

John King, walk us through very quickly what's about to happen over the next two hours.

KING: So the Joint Session has broken up. So now you have the Senate will go to its chamber. The House will stay there in the House chamber. They have two hours. They have two hours in the process, and as you say, walk through it here. You saw what happened. Normally this plays out pretty quickly. The counting process is the tellers report the votes, they go to the vice president, and if there's no controversy this moves along very quickly.

Because you had objections offered by a House member in writing, signed by a senator in writing, that meets the process, that meets the test, for now they go off into their separate chambers and they debate for up to two hours. A member of the House or member of the Senate can speak for up to five minutes if they would like. And at the end of those two hours, the chair, the presiding officer in the Senate, presiding officer in the House, calls for a vote. They vote yay or nay, and then they come back and report it to the Joint Session.

We know what's going to happen. The Senate will reject this and the House will reject this but it is an opportunity for the president's supporters to gum up the process, to make their objection in this case to Arizona because they do the states in alphabetical order. You noticed there's no specifics cited there. They alleged there were these irregularities and fraud in the state of Arizona.

Again we have a process for dealing with this. It's called the courts. The president's team tried, the president's supporters tried, and at every step, Wolf, they lost. But we know at the end of the day Joe Biden will win the electoral college vote. His election will be certified by the Congress and by this Joint Session. But this is allowed. Now they go off for two hours. They will debate Arizona. Then they will come back. Again, it will be rejected by both the House and the Senate.

We'll see what the vote totals are but it will clearly be rejected by both and then they'll go back through the order, and we do know that when they get to the G's, there will be an objection about Georgia. When they get to the P's, there will be an objection about Pennsylvania. The Trump allies are debating, trying to decide if they have the support to do even more than that. But Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania.

So we will go through this at least three times today. Arizona first because they do this in alphabetical order. Again, this is supposed to be an affirming ritual, an affirmation of the election, instead now we'll have two hours of debate in each chamber.

BLITZER: Yes. You know, Jake, this is highly unusual what's about to happen. This debate two hours in the Senate, two hours in the House. We know the end result, they will fail, but they're clearly simply trying to score some political points with the president's supporters.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: That's right. And we should note that this is not unprecedented. This has been done before. Members of the House and one Democratic senator did this in January 2005 to protest what they saw as irregularities in the state of Ohio, but the context here is quite different.

Back then the losing candidate, Democratic Senator John Kerry, distanced himself from the process and distanced himself from the objection. What we have here is this comes in the context of a two- monthlong process by President Trump and his allies to actually try to undermine the results of the election and stage what is essentially a bloodless coup.

I want to bring back former Senate parliamentarian Alan Furman.

Alan, what would have to happen for this to work?

ALAN FURMAN, FORMER SENATE PARLIAMENTARIAN: In order for this to work both Houses have to affirmatively vote to sustain this objection. So each House will consider this for up to two hours. At the end of that, the presiding officer of the two respective bodies will put the question, shall the objection submitted by the gentleman from so and so and the senator from so and so, shall that objection be sustained? If neither -- well, the objectors need to have both Houses agree with the objection.

We think that that's unlikely. They may get the Senate to agree but I doubt it and I very much doubt they get the House to agree. After the two hours, the Senate returns to the Joint Session. The secretary of the Senate will make an announcement with respect to the vote that the Senate took, announcing that the Senate voted has no on the objection and then the clerk of the House likewise make that pronouncement.

After which the vice president will announce that neither House having sustained the objection, the objection is not sustained, and at that point I would certainly hope that they would move on to the next state.

TAPPER: Yes. And let me put it even more bluntly that you just did. It is not going to happen. The House of Representatives is controlled by Democrats and they would never vote to uphold this objection and the U.S. Senate is controlled by Republicans, Dana, but even though it is controlled by Republicans, most of the Republicans in the U.S. Senate including and especially the Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell opposes this farce.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right and that's why the reporting from our colleagues on Capitol Hill is that we will likely to hear from Mitch McConnell first when it comes to the Republican side to -- I'm sure he's not going to be as blunt as you just were but his message is expected to be as clear which is this is not what we do. This is not appropriate.

[13:20:02]

It is done. And let's move on. The debate is likely to continue a lot longer than that but that is probably one of the first things we are going to hear when it comes to the debate from Republicans in the United States Senate and the House are going to have a debate on their own at the same time.

One thing that we heard was an open mic situation which I thought was really telling, we all heard it, when the vice president was standing there, awaiting to go on. We heard the vice president ask an aide, did my statement go out, and we heard, yes, sir. The statement which we all got before this began where he went through all the reasons why he doesn't believe that he can interfere.

He put this out because he doesn't, as Alan Furman, said doesn't have an opportunity to say while he's standing up there. He is speaking largely to one person and that's his boss, and that's the president of the United States. He wanted to make sure before this started that this got out and explained why constitutionally he cannot interfere.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. He is speaking obviously or signaling to President Trump but notably in this letter that he wrote, President Trump isn't mentioned at all, not at all. And I did note that at the end of this letter, Pence says, "Four years ago I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution which ended with the words, "So help me God.'" That would be a completely unremarkable statement under normal circumstances.

Let's actually listen to Speaker Pelosi as she continues with this Joint Session.

PELOSI: Pursuant to Senate Concurrent Resolution 1 and Section 17 of Title 3 of the U.S. -- United States Code, when the two Houses withdraw from the Joint Session to count the electoral vote for separate consideration of an objection, a representative may speak to the objection for five minutes and not more than once. Debate shall not exceed two hours after which the chair will put in the question, shall the objection be agreed to.

The clerk will report the objection made in the Joint Session.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection to counting the electoral votes of the state of Arizona. We, a member of the House of Representatives and a United States senator, object to the counting of the votes of state of Arizona on the ground that they were not under all of the known circumstances regularly given. Signed Paul Gosar, representative, state of Arizona, Ted Cruz, senator, state of Texas.

PELOSI: Thank you. The chair will endeavor to alternate recognition between members seeking support of the objection and members seeking opposition to the objection. The chair recognizes the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Scalise, for five minutes.

Thank you, Madame Speaker. I rise today to object to a number of states that did not follow the constitutional requirement for selecting electors.

REP. STEVE SCALISE (R-LA): Madame Speaker, this is something that is clear that our founding fathers debated about as a fundamental decision of how we choose our president. There was a lot of back and forth. If anyone reads the founding documents of our country about the different versions they went through to ultimately come up with a process where each state has elections, each state has a process for selecting their electors and sending them to Washington.

And Madame Speaker, in a number of those states that constitutional process was not followed. And that's why we're here to object. If you look at what the requirement says, nowhere in Article II Section 1 does it give the secretary of state of a state that ability. Nowhere does it give the governor that ability. Nowhere does it give a court that ability. It exclusively gives that ability to the legislatures, and in fact in most states that's the process that was followed.

But for those states that this wasn't followed. Unfortunately this is not new. We've seen over and over again more states where the Democrat Party has gone in and selectively gone around this process. That has to end, Madame Speaker. We have to follow the constitutional process.

(APPLAUSE)

SCALISE: Now there might be reasons why some people don't like the process laid out by a legislative body.

Madame Speaker, I served on one of those legislative bodies when I was in the state legislature for 12 years. I served on the House and Governmental Affairs Committees where we wrote the laws for our state's elections. And I can tell you when we had to make changes, those were extensively negotiated. We would have people on both sides come, Republicans and Democrats, Madame Speaker, would get together to work through those changes.

[13:25:05]

Any minute change to how a precinct would function, to how a change would be made in the time of an election, signature requirements, all the many things that involve a clerk carrying out the duties in each parish in our case. You would see people come and give testimony.

Madame Speaker, both sides could come. Clerks of court were there in the hearing rooms. It was an open process, by the way. Not behind closed doors in a smoke-filled room where somebody might want to bully a secretary of state to get a different version that might benefit them or their party or their candidate. That's not what our founding fathers said is the process.

Maybe it's how some people wanted to carry it out. But they lay it out that process. And so when we would have to make those changes they were in public view. They were heavily debated and then ultimately those laws were changed in advance of the election so everybody knew what the rules were. People on both sides knew how to play the rules before the game started, not getting somewhere in the process and saying well, you don't think it's going to benefit you so you try to go around the Constitution.

That's not how our system works. It's gotten out of hand. And so President Trump has called this out. And President Trump has stood up to it. So many of us have stood up to it. And in fact, over 100 of my colleagues, Madame Speaker, asked the Supreme Court to address this problem just a few weeks ago, and unfortunately the court chose to punt. They didn't answer it one way or the other. They didn't want to get in the middle of this discussion.

We don't have that luxury today. We have to discuss this. We have to fix this. In fact, on our first full day of this Congress, many of us brought legislation on to the House floor to start fixing the problems with our elections, to restore integrity to the election process which has been lost by so many millions of Americans. And we had a vote. Every single Republican voted to reform the process. Every single Democrat voted against it.

They don't want to fix this problem but the Constitution is our guide. And it's time we start following the Constitution. It's time we get back to what our founding fathers said is the process for selecting electors. That's the legislatures, in public view, not behind closed doors. Not smoke-filled rooms. Not bullying somebody that might give you a better ruling. Let's get back to rule of law and follow the Constitution, Madame Speaker, and I yield back the balance of my time.

(APPLAUSE)

PELOSI: Gentleman's time has expired. For what purpose does the gentlewoman --

(APPLAUSE)

PELOSI: For what purpose does the gentlewoman from California seek recognition?

LOFGREN: To strike the last word.

PELOSI: Without objection, the gentlewoman is recognized for five minutes. LOFGREN: Madame Speaker, this day marks a crossroads for American

democracy. Those who object to the counting of the electoral college votes which reflect the votes of the American people want to substitute their preferences for the voters' choice. That's not what our Constitution requires and it's at odds with the American Democratic republic.

If Congress selects the next president instead of American voters we'll have no need for an electoral college, in fact we'd have no need for presidential elections at all. We'd be moving from a government elected by the people to a government selected by those already governing. That's not America.

In the United States, we abide by the choices of the people, not an elite few. The framers of our Constitution considered whether to have Congress select the president and specifically rejected it. Instead, they wrote Article II and the 12th Amendment. Article II creates the electoral college where each state appoints electors. Laws of all 50 states and D.C. require electors to vote for the winner of the state's popular election. Each state provides for the orderly conduct of elections including lawful challenges, recounts and the like.

The 12th Amendment is what brings us to today. It says the electors meet in their states. That happened December 14th. The amendment says the electors shall cast their votes, sign and certify them, transmit them to a seal, that's been done. The sealed envelopes containing the signed certified ballots from each state's electors reflecting the votes of the people were in those mahogany boxes.

The 12th Amendment directs the president -- the vice president as the president of the Senate to do only this. Open the sealed envelopes and then the votes shall be counted. Simple. It doesn't say count it in a manner that some members of Congress and the vice president might prefer, no.