Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Live Event/Special
CNN Projects Raphael Warnock Elected to the U.S. Senate; Perdue-Ossoff Virtual Tie; Biden Agenda in Washington Hinges on Remaining Georgia Race; Trump Pressures Pence to Thwart Electoral College Vote. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired January 06, 2021 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Breaking news. We can now make a projection in one of the two Georgia Senate runoffs. CNN will now project that Democrat Raphael Warnock is elected to the U.S. Senate. The pastor defeating Republican incumbent Kelly Loeffler.
This puts Democrats halfway toward their goal of retaking control of the U.S. Senate. It now all comes down to who wins the other runoff, Jon Ossoff, who is currently in the lead, or incumbent senator David Perdue.
That is your headline. We are projecting that Raphael Warnock has been elected to the U.S. Senate.
Now the question becomes, why and how and what does it mean for the other race?
That takes us to John Berman.
He came out early and said, thank you, thank you, thank you. I represent everybody. Wasn't premature.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: He came out for good reason, now leading by 40,000 votes. More to be counted which likely skew Democratic. Let's talk about the historic nature of this.
You have an African American pastor being elected senator from an Old South state. That is historic in and of itself and puts the Democrats one vote away from controlling the Senate. That Senate seat is still up for grabs at this point.
How did Raphael Warnock do it?
He ran ahead of Joe Biden. If Joe Biden is the baseline for Democrats, what you need to do to win in Georgia, Raphael Warnock ran better than Joe Biden in all these counties where there's color. He did it almost everywhere. OK?
Particularly, for instance, in a lot of these African American heavily populated counties, look at Bibb County, 62.8 percent of the vote. I can show you what Joe Biden did, 61.4. Just that little bit of difference in all those places adds up.
He was a strong candidate in those areas. He also benefited, frankly, from his opponent, Kelly Loeffler, not as popular, not as popular as David Perdue, who, as we said, has been elected to the Senate. Kelly Loeffler was appointed by Brian Kemp, the governor, had never won an election in Georgia. And that may have hurt her.
Raphael Warnock also Fulton County, let me point it out, he is a reverend at Ebenezer Baptist Church, Martin Luther King Sr.'s church. Deep roots, which are so important in Georgia.
In Fulton County, Raphael Warnock got 72.4 percent of the vote. Let me compare it in this case to David Perdue to Jon Ossoff. You can see Raphael Warnock got 4,000 more votes in Fulton County than Jon Ossoff did.
So you can see Raphael Warnock overperforming Joe Biden in some cases and also Jon Ossoff, who was also running in this election. So strong candidacy for Warnock across the country.
One other thing that happened yesterday, Donald Trump came to campaign against both Democratic senators. This is the county that he went to. You look at this and, say, oh, man, Raphael Warnock got shellacked, 29 percent of the vote.
But it wasn't really a change from what happened in the presidential race there. You can see Joe Biden got 29 percent. So Donald Trump's visit to Whitfield County last night didn't seem to make a huge difference. It didn't necessarily animate Republicans in the numbers that they needed to turn out, to overcome what Raphael Warnock was able to do.
CUOMO: You had a super motivated Black vote in this state; that made a difference in the presidential race and now made a difference in the Senate. I mean, they literally put their hand on history tonight, with Warnock, both for what he represents and how he won.
I mean, there are a lot of questions about the Black vote going into this election, about whether or not they'd come out, whether the Democrats still deserve them, boy, did they come out.
BERMAN: They came out and they came out early, which Harry can talk about more. They overrepresented in the early vote from what they were projected to do, which is also a huge change, a huge change from previous elections.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Exactly right, a huge change. Go back to the 2008 runoff, a year in which Saxby Chambliss, the incumbent Republican, was forced into a runoff by Jim Martin, the Democrat.
[02:05:00]
ENTEN: And you saw in that election Black turnout dropping from the general to the runoff. And that was held in December.
That is clearly not the case this time around. You had large African American turnout in that Black belt, running from Augusta down to the southwest portion. But the other thing I point out is Raphael Warnock also did particularly well in suburban areas.
Look at Gwinnett County, up by 21 points, a county, if I recall correctly, Mitt Romney carried by 9 points in 2012. A 30-point shift and that gives you an understanding those Atlanta suburbs were a big deal in the election and switching them from Republicans to the Democrats, at least in Raphael Warnock's case.
CUOMO: Harry, I want to bring in Mark and Kirsten.
Thanks for joining us.
Harry, you say that the suburbs made a difference.
But when you're looking at the headline of this in terms of why this happened tonight, how high on the register of impact are you going to have to put the Black vote?
ENTEN: The top. The top. I mean, this was the big question mark heading into this, right?
You saw that African Americans in the general election made up a lower share than they traditionally have. And a real question whether they would turn out but they are making up a larger share than they did in the general election. a
And although we don't have the exact numbers we'll have to wait and see. At this point, if you're looking at where the vote totals were down the least, relative to the November elections, it tended to be in places where African Americans make up a significant, either portion or even a majority.
CUOMO: Kirsten, huge turnout not just among Black voters but that is most notable. But in a runoff election like this, usually you have big falloff from the general. And here over 4.6 million, 5 million in the state during the presidential race. It's really strong turnout.
How big a deal is this for the president-elect if both of these races go his party's way?
KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, I mean it's really hard to overstate what a big deal it would be if both these races go his way in terms of governing.
But I also think for the Democratic Party, even just with this one race called, it shows us that Biden winning Georgia wasn't an aberration. So it suggests that there is something more going on there.
And this could become a state that Democrats could perhaps more rely on than in the past, because it was always seen as trending in that direction but now it suggests maybe there's been some sort of shift, which I think we have to acknowledge the role that Stacey Abrams has played in this, particularly in terms of changing how the Black turnout has been both for the President-Elect and now in this race.
So, you know, I think there are a lot of implications about this for the Democratic Party. And then also, you know, for the president-elect if he has a -- if he's in control -- if Democrats are in control of all three parties, I mean all three branches of government, that's going to radically change how he can govern.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: If I can jump in, let me ask a question, this became about not the right to vote in Georgia but the fight to vote in Georgia.
I think Democrats made a strategic positive by turning this into when Republicans in Georgia tried to suppress the vote. So what Democrats did was made it about the fight to vote. They're trying to steal your vote.
You have people like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and John Lewis, who fought for your right to vote, people who died. And I think that Democrats were able to turn that message over and use the president and also Kelly Loeffler, some of her own words against her. And that certainly appeared to help them in this race down in Georgia.
POWERS: Yes.
Is that directed at me, Don?
LEMON: Yes.
POWERS: Oh, sorry.
Yes, I think that is absolutely right and I think that, you know, and Kelly Loeffler also, let's remember, made a lot of really -- I don't know what the right word -- like lowdown kind of attacks on reverend Warnock. You know, really trying to tie him to Jeremiah Wright, trying to play sort of these -- sort of -- I don't know -- racial politics around Black churches, which we saw with Jeremiah Wright.
And she was doing the same kind of thing with him. And it obviously didn't work for her. And then I think we also would be remiss if we didn't talk about Donald Trump's role in all of this, of course.
You know, there was a lot of confusion I think sent by the Republican Party and by Donald Trump, telling people that you can't trust the vote, you know. So it was sending mixed messages about voting.
[02:10:00]
POWERS: And then also just creating general chaos around, you know, the check, $2,000 checks. And then you had Mitch McConnell denying it. So a lot of chaos created and then, of course, the infamous phone call that happened with, you know, Donald Trump, you know, calling in the day before the election and basically trying to, you know, strong-arm an office into helping him steal an election.
So he also played a role in this.
CUOMO: Absolutely. A failure has one father. It's going to be Donald Trump when this is reviewed.
The question, Mark Preston, is, if this changes everything, does everything include today when Congress meets?
Do you think that, if these two races seem determined at that point, do you think it changes the calculus for the ReTrumplicans in terms of their broadside on democracy?
MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: No, no, look, I think that if you have already stated, that you are not supporting the certification, which will happen in just a few hours, you're going to stay that course and cast the die on that.
But long term though, we are going to see some changes, you know, just not in how things are operating on Capitol Hill but both political parties. Democrats should be extremely happy, Chris. It's amazing what they've done in Georgia.
You know, I'll show my age here. I spent many years down in Georgia as a newspaper reporter. I'll also show my age. I was there when the last 50-50 happened in the U.S. Senate. I was a beat reporter on Capitol Hill.
It is extremely difficult to get anything done on Capitol Hill and liberals who think that just because they've got the Senate or perhaps will have the Senate by a tiebreaking vote doesn't mean they're going to get everything through, let alone much of anything through. It is still a very divided Washington.
CUOMO: And you have the filibuster.
PRESTON: And you have the filibuster. One of the most powerful people in Washington, which we haven't talked about, is Joe Manchin, a conservative Democrat, who will be somebody who is not going to be supportive of all of these liberal ideals.
Once you lose Joe Manchin, you may lose some other senators, Kyrsten Sinema from Arizona, she has shown herself to be more conservative; Mark Kelly, up in two years. And as we talk about this race and Raphael Warnock has made history, has done something we've never seen happen in Georgia.
But he has to run immediately again. He has to run again in two years. He was running against somebody who wasn't a politician. We have made that known.
He will run against somebody in two years, guaranteed, who will be not only well funded but will be somebody who has been a veteran politician. It will be a much harder campaign, I think, in two years.
LEMON: Mark, that's two years away. And you're right about that. But you and I are not old. We're just, you know, we're aged like a fine wine. PRESTON: We're gray.
LEMON: He made history, think about it, all of us, anyone can respond. Think about in the state of Georgia down South. If Jon Ossoff does pull this off, you will have a Black man and a Jewish man, who have been elected in the state of Georgia tonight. That is history. Discuss.
PRESTON: Well, let me say one thing about that and I'll go back to my Georgia newspaper days. There is a famous case that goes back to the early 1900s, where a Jewish man was hung in, I believe it was -- it was in between Atlanta and Milledgeville, accused of a crime he never committed.
And it just showed you, back then, that people could get away with it. Prominent citizens hung this Jewish man, who had run a pencil factory, became a big play on Broadway.
Look where we are now: as you note, we have a Jewish man, who very likely is going to represent Georgia and his seatmate will be an African American man. It is very, very historic.
CUOMO: Harry, you have history but also going to have practicality because if you have control of the Senate, the first thing that means for Biden is personnel. If he wants, let's say, Sally Yates as AG, you don't have control of the Senate, zero chance that happens. So better chance of getting his AG. Also $2,000 checks, you know, obviously Jon Ossoff has been talking about being on board with that.
I don't know -- Joe Manchin wasn't against $2,000 checks. He just couldn't get people there.
But how important is it for Joe Biden's agenda and what his first two steps is legislatively?
ENTEN: It's huge. It's huge. They now control -- they can get bills to the floor and actually discuss them, that he can get people in his cabinet. And Stephen Breyer is not a particularly young man as a Supreme Court justice.
[02:15:00]
ENTEN: Now if he wants to step aside in the next two years, they could have a majority where they could appoint and confirm a United States Supreme Court justice.
While certainly there are issues that you wouldn't be able to break the 60-vote barrier to break a filibuster, plenty of moves. If Jon Ossoff wins and obviously we have not called that one like we called Warnock.
But if, in fact, he is the next senator from the state of Georgia, this opens up a whole slew of avenues to Joe Biden and could make his presidency much more successful, at least give it the opportunity to be. CUOMO: You know who else it is huge for, Don -- you guys check me on
this in terms of whether or not she'll have has broad a mandate as I'm suspected she will -- is V.P. Kamala Harris because she -- the way this works is, if Ossoff wins and Warnock wins, then they are -- will have a 50-50 Senate, the tiebreaker is the vice president.
The president of the Senate is the vice president. So Kamala Harris will loom very large in every legislative dispute applied for and we don't usually see a vice president having.
LEMON: Potentially bigger than any vice president in, you know, in modern history, I would think. Check me if I'm wrong. But you know, a Black woman, right, who is vice president, who is Vice President of the United States, a former senator, who will have the tiebreaking vote, I mean, that's huge.
CUOMO: Right.
Kirsten, am I overstating it or will she have a different kind of juice than we would have anticipated?
POWERS: I guess so. I mean, she's representing the president, so it's whatever the president wants. And so it's -- I don't think it's like she's deciding, you know, what she's going to do.
She'll represent the White House. But I do think that it does make a difference. It's true things are still going to be -- it's not like the Democrats are -- have 10 extra seats or something in the Senate. So I mean it still is going to be close and still going to be, you know, hard at times.
But it's much better to have -- if you're a Democrat, it's much better to have Chuck Schumer be the majority leader and have Democrats being the ranking members on the committees and, you know, that's where the power is really practiced.
So it's not just on the votes;, it's who gets to decide what will be brought onto the floor, for example. So a lot of implications.
CUOMO: But there will be moments made and Kamala Harris will wind up being the capstone on things that wouldn't have happened --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- sitting it covering it in the middle of the night.
CUOMO: And waiting on Kamala Harris.
So let's take a quick break because we got wood to chop and more votes just came in and we'll take you through what's going on. CNN just projected Raphael Warnock defeats senator Kelly Loeffler.
What about the other race?
We have news next.
LEMON: Chopping wood!
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:20:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
CUOMO: This is a night where it is worth staying up because we are living history. We have major breaking news from the Georgia Senate runoffs that will help decide how much power a President Joe Biden has with his agenda in his first weeks in office.
We just made a key race alert and gave you some new information. Raphael Warnock, you see the check mark, we have predicted that he will have won the race against incumbent Kelly Loeffler.
There are still votes to be counted but his margin keeps growing and the counties where there are outstanding votes fall heavily Democratic. Warnock came out a couple of hours ago, suggesting he had won. We have predicted that's the way it looks at this point.
Georgia Senate runoff with Jon Ossoff, all eyes on this race now. He is now 9,527 votes ahead; in the last hour, he went from being down 1,300 votes to up 9,527. That race is within the margin of recall. There are still votes coming out and that's what just happened.
We just had a little change in that race so let's go to John Berman at the magic wall.
What just happened that changed the Ossoff race?
BERMAN: I circled the number, Jon Ossoff, 9,500 votes ahead. This is approaching Joe Biden territory, where he won by 11,000 votes.
Where did the votes come from?
It all came from Dekalb County, which is the county we've been watching. Dekalb County had a dump -- and I'll pull this up -- of about 6,600 votes, 6,600 votes in Dekalb County. This is how they broke. I'll start with the low number here, 333, 333 for David Perdue.
And then 6,300 for Jon Ossoff. That's 95 percent to 5 percent. Again, we've been saying all night long, in Dekalb --
CUOMO: That's one of the worst 5s I've ever -- will you make that a little bit better?
BERMAN: The handwriting is tough here. Phil Mattingly, by the way, has impeccable handwriting.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: But Jon Ossoff got 95 percent in this recent dump and 83 percent in Dekalb County in general. But this remaining vote is heavily Democratic which is why he's expanding his lead there -- Harold.
ENTEN: John, those are African American precincts. No doubt about it. And this just keeps getting at the last two months of politics, that are some of the worst politics I've ever seen, where you had Kelly Loeffler basically attacking the Black church in the state of Georgia.
What are you doing?
Oh, my goodness, gracious.
LEMON: Do you agree that was a strategic blunder?
I was talking to Kirsten about that?
Who does that?
ENTEN: Someone who is not a particularly good politician.
The Democrats won this race, don't get me -- the Democrats won the Warnock race. But Kelly Loeffler also lost that particular race. and that's why we're seeing not only large margins but we're seeing this large African American turnout.
And this, I think, gets at the larger point. Remember, even though Joe Biden won in the presidential race back in November, the Senate Republican candidates actually ran ahead of the Senate Democratic candidates. There was some sort of switch that happened over the last two months, where all of a sudden now, the Senate Democratic candidates are running ahead of the Senate Republican candidates.
[02:25:00]
ENTEN: Something went very, very wrong for Republicans and very right for Democrats.
CUOMO: Yes, and the name is Donald Trump.
What Loeffler was doing is a page right out of his book. You go to what's ugly and what scares people and you hope you keep them divided.
The problem in Georgia was it actually motivated people to come out as a rejection of Donald Trump. You see these candidates outperforming Joe Biden.
Why?
Because, as Harry is suggesting, John, it has to be the case.
BERMAN: These are all the counties where Jon Ossoff outperformed Joe Biden. It's a lot of counties.
CUOMO: A lot of counties.
BERMAN: A lot of counties.
CUOMO: And it's not so much Biden bad, these guys are better, it's that in this period of assessment of these candidates, in this time since the election, things have happened. Just that call with the Georgia secretary of state is such an insult. What's going on with ReTrumplicans, a broadside on democracy, that scares people who are worried about being disenfranchised already.
BERMAN: In some of these areas, where Jon Ossoff outperformed Joe Biden, is right here, which is where Donald Trump was last night.
ENTEN: No, that's exactly right. Look, if you have Donald Trump attacking the voting mechanisms back in November, what a surprise that perhaps a few extra Republicans might want to stay home because they don't believe in the legitimacy of the system, even though that's the way we elect our folks in this country.
And perhaps they didn't turn out while African Americans, who had to fight so hard for the right to vote in this country, decided to use that right while a lot of white rural voters decided, no, I'll stay home because I don't necessarily believe in the system.
LEMON: It was the fight to vote, not just the right to vote. It was the fight to vote and that's how Democrats strategized and used it. That was the messaging.
But John and Chris and Harry, there were billboards people down in Georgia that people were driving by in Republican strongholds, saying this is rigged. don't vote. Vote against the people who are not standing up for the president.
You're suppressing your own vote.
ENTEN: Don, I don't understand it, right?
Like, you know, all I do is I study elections for a living. And all of a sudden, when you have two elections determining control in the United States Senate and you need folks to come out and vote in runoffs, often about turnout, turnout, turnout, and give them reason to stay home, it's just piss poor politics.
And the results of that we're seeing in the results this evening.
LEMON: Chris, can I ask you a question -- Chris, you and John, you both watch. We watched the president the other night go down to Georgia. And he had one job and that was to turn out the vote for both the Republican candidates, both of them incumbents.
Instead of starting talking off about the candidates, he talked about his grievances, how the election was stolen.
How much did that hurt these folks tonight, one of whom has lost, the other on the verge of -- ?
CUOMO: I think he wound up falling into another song lyric, that is the devil coming down to Georgia. You come down to a state where people had to fight to have the franchise and he is speaking in no coded language that he wants to change that back to him deciding who gets to vote. If you needed any kind of confirmation of it, as an echo, we got a
statement out of the Perdue campaign. All right.
Do me a favor, put it up there so we can read it.
It's the same line of messaging. Do we --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: "We will mobilize every available resource and exhaust every legal recourse to ensure all legally cast ballots are properly counted. We believe, in the end, Senator Perdue will be victorious."
And I can't read --
(CROSSTALK)
CUOMO: You read it perfectly.
LEMON: I can't see.
CUOMO: The message is obvious a few words in. They have no reason to say that they believe they won. There is no substantial basis of anything that we have understood, of anything that has been reported by officials there, to give any credibility to the idea that the vote is wrong.
BERMAN: No. Right now Jon Ossoff leads by 0.2 percent. If he expands it past 0.5 percent, no recount. Below 0.5 percent, David Perdue can request it.
Donald Trump, what effect did his trip have?
It didn't help. It did not help David Perdue at all. Whitfield County, where Donald Trump was last night -- I can't even remember when the election was -- this was his final trip. He came and spoke for 90 minutes. David Perdue got 22,000 votes in the county.
What did Donald Trump get?
He got 25,000 votes.
So look, you know, might Perdue have received fewer votes if Donald Trump didn't show up?
We don't know. But it didn't boost the turnout.
LEMON: He didn't help turnout at all in Georgia?
Or was it just in that county?
BERMAN: Over all, in a runoff, turnout is down. But it's hard to see that Donald Trump drove enormous numbers in the place where he visited most recently. Look, Donald Trump turns out voters.
[02:30:00] BERMAN: One thing we've seen is Trump turns out voters. And it may very well be, without Donald Trump on the actual ballot, that hurt these candidates. But --
ENTEN: Jon, let me ask you what does that mean?
Donald Trump is not going away. Yes, he is not going to be president after January 20th but he's not going away in terms of the media. He's going to keep being out there.
If Donald Trump is no longer on the ballot to help Republicans out but still Democrats can use the messages that he puts forth against Republicans, you've seen a divided Republican Party within the state of Georgia. You saw the results of that tonight and seeing that just across the entire country.
I think this is just looking at the larger picture. It's something Republicans are going to have to deal with, where you have this Trump wing of the party pull in one direction and the more traditional Republicans pulling in another.
BERMAN: When are they going to have to start to deal with it?
Starting in a few hours. There is a moment of reckoning, that will happen in the U.S. Capitol, starting at 1:00 tomorrow when the electoral votes are counted out loud. That is the constitutional role that Congress plays.
And you have Republicans that are going to object. And I wonder if some of them might have a moment of soul searching and say, look, the wagon we hitched ourselves to isn't riding in the right direction. We just lost certainly one, let me put this up so people can see it, well -- well, they just lost one Senate seat right now for sure in Georgia and on their way to losing two Senate seats in Georgia.
That's the wagon they hitched themselves to.
LEMON: Chris, I know you'll get to the break. There's like 25 news cycles in a week here. Let's not forget, you're talking about the presence of the president going down to Georgia. But I think the real thing that really exposed this president and may have turned a lot of people off in Georgia, even his own supporters, was that phone call that we were talking about the other night, the desperation in that phone call.
And just being debunked of conspiracy theory after lie after nontruth after -- by the secretary of state, by the guy who handles the elections and just by -- by his own people. It is stunning. I don't think that helped those candidates down in Georgia.
CUOMO: No, but you never know with Trump because, you know what, that's not the first phone call he's had like that. Probably wasn't the first one he'd had in his campaign. He said the same thing to the head of Ukraine before he would give him aid.
Trump voters have such deep-seated frustration that they have clung to him way past his due date. We'll see. I don't think it goes away, that effect, after he does.
But we will go away. And when we come back, we're going to have more of breaking news, the developments in this campaign, this election, we believe has been decided. What happens with Ossoff and Perdue means everything. We have the latest information right after this.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:35:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
LEMON: So here's the breaking news at this hour. CNN projects Raphael Warnock defeats senator Kelly Loeffler in the special runoff election down in Georgia. We're now waiting for the final results in the runoff race between Democrat Jon Ossoff and Republican David Perdue.
So a key race alert right now. And if you look at the big board and look at the wall, you can see Jon Ossoff has pulled ahead of David Perdue by 9,527 votes. Still very close but it is believed -- again, we're not calling it -- if Jon Ossoff hangs on to this and votes come in tomorrow in the heavily Democratic counties in Georgia, that Jon Ossoff will be the winner. We shall see.
There is a lot to talk about with our guests.
Welcome back, all of you.
OK, we were talking about the strategy of the Republicans, including the president. What do you --
S.E. CUPP, CNN HOST: Strategy, yes.
LEMON: -- strategy.
Was it a smart move to get the president down there at the last minute, considering what happened days before and his state of mind and what he was tweeting about and trying to get done?
CUPP: How Trump bungled this, let me count the ways. Look, Trump has never really understood the value of turnout. We saw that in 2018, the midterms, when he kept saying over and over again, none of these elections are as important as mine was, which was like the opposite of the goal of turnout.
And so he, in this one, actually performed a hat trick of ineptitude; for one, for starters, he lost his own election, right, which automatically disadvantaged him as he would attempt to campaign on behalf of Loeffler and Perdue.
For another, he didn't campaign on behalf of Loeffler and Perdue. He dragged them over to a national election, to campaign for him, an outgoing president.
And, three, he kept telling voters the elections weren't to be trusted and they were rigged so that also didn't drive turnout.
So Trump so mismanaged this special election -- I'm sure he's heartbroken about it -- but for senators Loeffler and Perdue, who might be out of jobs, and for Democrats, who might now have control of the Senate, I think it's clear Trump is the main reason they have lost these elections, if, in fact, they do tonight.
LEMON: Democrats, one seat away from Senate control. It could have a dramatic major impact on the Biden presidency.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, I think that, you know, Joe Biden in Delaware and Kamala Harris, Kamala now becomes, you know, one of the most consequential vice presidents we've had in the history of this country.
And I don't say that lightly. I was joking; I sent her a note earlier tonight and said, you thought you were getting away from the Senate and now you're going right back. And she's going to have that privilege and honor of breaking a tie.
[02:40:00]
SELLERS: But this puts more pressure on the Biden administration. You got to go big. You have people who are counting on you to give them the relief or at least show you're fighting for the relief they need, whether or not it's COVID from a public health perspective or economic perspective or many issues we have been clamoring for.
Even when you think about Jacob Blake today and the lack of justice he received, you move back up to the forefront of criminal justice reform. And after elections like this in Georgia, you know what the Georgia state legislature will do. So you think about voting rights.
So all these things come to the forefront. Tonight, even just with Raphael Warnock, I just think that the role that -- the role that this history-making performance they put on played, it has to mean something for the Democratic Party; meaning they have to do something to ensure that there's a return on investment for Black voters across the country.
I think that's necessary and something that has to be done in the first 100 days.
LEMON: Scott, let's talk more about the Biden presidency when you talk about, you know, each of you have been talking about things that are getting done. Maybe there will be some bipartisanship, maybe. You talk about the $2,000 stimulus checks. That was part of the strategy that didn't work out for Republicans this time.
It's going to have major impact on, I believe, who he picks for some key positions, including the attorney general. This makes the path to getting all of the people he wants on his cabinet, it's easier, perhaps, to get them confirmed.
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's a lot easier to confirm people with 50 votes plus the tiebreaker than it would be with 48 or 49. So the most problematic nominees that have been announced so far are Becerra for HHS and Tanden for OMB.
They probably now will be confirmed. And whoever he picks for attorney general will likely be confirmed. As long as none of the Senate Democrats object to it.
So staffing the government now for Biden becomes a lot easier. Governing and trying to pass bills I don't think is as easy as Bakari is making it out to be.
Biden's burden is to manage expectations on his left flank and get some Republicans to join him in passing bills. I do think honestly there will be areas of cooperation between the two parties, infrastructure strikes me as one area.
And the other one, I think there is an emerging consensus or at least a bipartisan working group on, is tech industry issues, it looks like some of Biden and his people and some of the Republicans seem to have some areas of agreement on the tech companies.
So I actually do believe it's possible for some policy to be made between the 40 yard lines here. But the pressure on him from the Left, I think, as Bakari has said, will be huge and his ability to manage that, while Republicans are not going to go for it in the Senate, is going to define this first two years of the Biden presidency.
CUPP: It's worth remembering that having control of Congress is not a magic bullet. Obama had control of Congress for the first two years. He got stimulus passed and health care passed. He didn't get immigration, he didn't close Gitmo. He didn't do gun control and a lot of things he promised to do.
Trump had control of Congress for the first two years of his administration. He got tax cuts. He got Brett Kavanaugh.
You know what he didn't get, a wall. He didn't replace health care. Just having control doesn't mean everything else is aligned for you to get even your signature pieces of legislation over the goal line. So there are challenges ahead that will be from Biden's Left, from the middle and from the Right.
LEMON: Scott, take us inside the mind and the psyche of Republicans right now.
What are you guys thinking?
JENNINGS: I guess it depends on who you ask. The reality is, it stinks to lose and nobody likes to lose. You know, the sunny side says, we'll do it in two years and get to do it two years after that.
To me the biggest question for Republicans right now, are we going to continue to devolve into a party that is consumed with the idea that we can overturn an election tomorrow, which is an asinine idea?
It is pure madness and will be a stain on this presidency.
Are we going to use this as a learning experience? When you have a bad outcome in life, smart people, successful people use it as a learning experience.
What do we need to do to get better in the future?
It is apparent Donald Trump did some things that brought a few folks into the party and that he also did some things that drove traditional Republicans away. We need both of them.
How do we get those folks back?
What kind of candidates can do that?
Two straight national elections, where -- three really if you count the 2018 midterm -- where Donald Trump or Donald Trump-aligned party people couldn't get a majority or a plurality of the national vote.
[02:45:00]
JENNINGS: We may have squeezed all the blood out of the turnip that there is to squeeze and maybe time to move on to other personalities who can do both.
LEMON: In a short time, does that mean they have to jettison Donald Trump in order to do what Scott just said, to move on, to break up?
SELLERS: No, it's amazing to me that people thought when the --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: -- baseless claims already that he's making about this election.
SELLERS: -- that COVID was going to go away and life would be better on January 1st. And people think on January 20th at noon, Donald Trump is going to disappear. He's not. He's still going to be a looming figure and, even more, the cancer that is Trumpism is going to be around the Republican Party for a long period of time.
You know, it was fascinating to see in Georgia, one of the things we talked about was strategy earlier. The reason you had this turnout the way it was is that one of the strategies they employed was attacking the Black church. Like you can't do that in the South. And so --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You can't do it especially when it is Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s church, the guy is the pastor and John Lewis --
(CROSSTALK)
SELLERS: But Raphael Warnock had to thread an incredible needle because they tried to make him a radical Negro. That was the plan and it didn't work. It backfired.
so now you have a Morehouse alum going to the Senate and a Howard alum who is vice president and a Spelman sister who lifted them up. It's a great day in Georgia when you think about the context of history we're in.
LEMON: Thank you all. I appreciate it. I'll see you soon.
Democrats on the brink of flipping the Senate. One race down, one left on a night when everyone in America is watching Georgia. We're live all morning with the newest numbers for you.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[02:50:00]
(MUSIC PLAYING)
CUOMO: All right. You just saw President Trump and President-Elect Joe Biden both go down to Georgia to make a difference. For Biden, it means everything. It is history in terms of what he will have to deal with going forward.
Four years but it's all about the beginning for him, especially in the middle of a crisis. If he has control of the Senate, it will mean everything.
For Trump, it may be about nothing more than playing the spoiler. But now he's going to have to deal with a legacy of defeat. And he is the reason that this is not going the right way in Georgia. Here is a key race alert.
This is the state of play. Raphael Warnock elected to the U.S. Senate. That is the projection from CNN at this hour. He came out a few hours ago, saying, I won. I'm going to serve everybody. Let's go and do the things we need to do for the state of Georgia.
The key race now, because Democrats don't need one, they need both or it doesn't matter and Republicans stay in power. Jon Ossoff is now 9,527 votes ahead. Statistically, it's at 50.1 to 49.9, which means if it stays under 0.5 percent or at 0.5 percent of a percentage point, the incumbent senator, David Perdue, can ask for a recount.
But there's still more votes to count. So we have breaking news right now in Georgia but we cannot ignore what Donald Trump and his surrogates are about to attempt today in a few hours in the United States Congress.
Will these outcomes make a difference on the momentum of people trying to broadside our democracy just as a play of fealty to this president?
If he's blamed for these failures, might it change the state of play?
Here's what we know it's not going to change. It can't change the outcome. The procedure doesn't allow for it, even with the wall of shame we've been putting up with all of these ReTrumplicans who are going to vote against certifying the electors. There aren't enough. But you are about to see the ugliness of
Washington and the ugliness of where we are in this country on full display and in full force.
What's happening in Washington is reflective of this country. Yes, they are a grotesque example. Yes, the political culture has become perverse. But it's all an extension of what's going on in this country.
Now there are signs that even V.P. Mike Pence understands the reality. His role is largely ceremonial. It's ministerial. He's not going to change the outcome the way his buddy, President Trump, suggest he would to the entire country on live cameras.
I don't know why Trump threw Pence under the bus like that. Let's discuss with CNN election law analyst, Franita Tolson.
Thank you for joining us, especially at the hour.
Do I have it right that, while, if you have a member of the House and a member of the Senate that want to debate and take a vote on a particular slate of electors, that can happen but you've got to have the numbers, right?
FRANITA TOLSON, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: Yes. So, Chris, first, thank you for having me on. Let's be clear, that's part of the process. So the Electoral Count Act has a procedure in place for objections to be lodged at any particular slate of electors.
So if a Republican member of the House and a Republican member of the Senate decide to submit a written objection, then each chamber will debate the objection for two hours.
And then they decide whether or not to sustain it. Keep in mind that the control of the chambers is still split. And so it's unlikely that the objection will go anywhere. So really what we're seeing tomorrow is political theater.
I do think the outcome of the election tonight will probably decide how much of the political theater is extended. We may see debate over Arizona and maybe Georgia. But they may stop there if they feel like they've gotten what they need. This is also about fundraising, placating the base.
[02:55:00]
TOLSON: And so if they get what they need tomorrow, that will determine how much of this is extended out into late in the night.
CUOMO: Mike Pence, the president putting it out there into the ether, that he can make a difference.
What is the reality legally?
TOLSON: He cannot.
(LAUGHTER)
TOLSON: I know the president likes to say things. But the reality is the vice president is usually a rubber stamp in this context. The 12th Amendment says his job is to open the certificates. Even the Electoral Count Act is weighted towards making sure this is a streamlined process.
If states submit slates that are certified it by December 8th, which all contested states have complied with, they're supposed to treat those as presumptively valid. There's no grounds for an objection.
All of the objections that have been made public, in the sense of senator Hawley saying he's concerned about the Pennsylvania slate of electors and the generalized allegations of fraud, these things have been litigated for the last seven weeks.
The only thing that has changed is the forum. They have brought these issues to be debated in Congress tomorrow. But these have been litigated in courts of law over the last seven weeks.
Let's be frank, electing Brown people, voting in Atlanta, Milwaukee, Detroit, Philadelphia, that's not an election irregularity. That's not voter fraud, that's the face of American democracy. So if you want to compete for the votes, you need to come forward with some policies, not voter suppression.
CUOMO: There's going to be a message sent but this rejection yesterday. It's not just going after the vote. You are going after those that did vote. That will be remembered as well. That's why I'm wondering if this result in Georgia may make a difference in the wall of shame here.
These people should be remembered.
Why?
This is not where people are going to come out with tons of proof that motivate their objection. If they had the proof, they would have done it in the court of law. They tried and they lost dozens of times.
In terms of the context of history and under the law, what do these faces and names represent to you?
TOLSON: As an American embarrassment, right?
We have a process in place. Chris, I am an election law scholar. I believe people should vote. Far be it from me to paint the process as perfect. It's not.
Georgia voters in particular had to overcome years of voter suppression. I know we're holding the secretary of state out for his bravery in dealing with President Trump but it's also the reality that he spent a number of years making it harder for people to vote in Georgia.
There are things we need to work on in our process. To me, it makes it even more shameful that attention is being diverted on what, in effect, is a political stunt. This will amount to nothing tomorrow. And people need to understand and punish these folks for putting the country through this.
CUOMO: I understand the law. I understand how you lay it out. People will look at what happened in Pennsylvania today and say, they didn't seat that senator.
What if that happens tomorrow?
How do you contrast the two?
TOLSON: Well, I mean, tomorrow is different, right?
Tomorrow we have a process in place that's outlined in both the U.S. Constitution and in federal statutes to govern the process tomorrow. I think that people should just have faith in that, right?
Don't look at anything that unfolds tomorrow as some sort of aberration to the process. Even if we criticize the wall of shame for lodging their objections, the reality is they are the process for lodging the objections. This is all part of the process.
Even with the vote in Georgia, if Ossoff and Perdue stay within one- half of 1 percent, they are the process for the recount. That is not an aberration. Even when things don't go as cleanly as we would like them to, the reality is, the law has a procedure in place to govern the circumstances.
CUOMO: The flip side is, just because you have a right doesn't mean that it's a right to exercise it the way you want to.
TOLSON: This is true.
CUOMO: They have the right to object but the way they're going to object is objectionable in and of itself.
Franita Tolson, thank you for making sense, especially at 3:00 in the morning on the East Coast. We're living history and thank you for being part of it.
TOLSON: Take care.
CUOMO: We know who won the presidency.
But is Joe Biden about to have a huge roadblock lifted in terms of getting things done?
This is the race, Ossoff versus Perdue. Votes are coming in. What will happen? There's news on our watch -- next.
