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CNN Live Event/Special
Second House Speaker Vote Under Way. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired January 03, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[14:30:00]
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Bilirakis?
REP. GUS BILIRAKIS (R-FL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bishop of Georgia?
REP. SANFORD BISHOP (D-GA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Bishop of North Carolina?
REP. DAN BISHOP (R-NC): Jordan.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jordan.
Blumenauer?
REP. EARL BLUMENAUER (D-OR): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Blunt Rochester?
REP. LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER (D-DE): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Boebert?
REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): Jordan.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jordan.
Bonamici?
REP. SUZANNE BONAMICI (D-OR): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Bost?
REP. MIKE BOST (R-IL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bowman?
REP. JAMAAL BOWMAN (D-NY): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Boyle of Pennsylvania?
REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Bacon?
REP. Donald Bacon (R-NE): Jordan.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jordan.
Brown?
REP. ANTHONY BROWN (D-MD): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Brownley?
REP. JULIA BROWNLEY (D-CA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Buchanan?
REP. VERN BUCHANAN (R-FL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Buck?
REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bucshon?
REP. LARRY BUCSHON (R-IN): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Budzinski?
REP. NIKKI BUDZINSKI (D-IL): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries. Burchett?
REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Burgess?
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R-TX): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Balderson (ph)?
REP. BALDERSON (ph): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bush?
REP. CORI BUSH (D-MO): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Calvert?
REP. KEN CALVERT (R-CA): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Cammack?
REP. KATE CAMMACK (R-FL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Curbelo?
REP. CURBELO (R-FL): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Carbajal?
REP. SALUD CARBAJAL (D-CA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Cardenas?
REP. TONY CARDENAS (D-CA): For the first African-American speaker of the House, Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Cary? REP. MIKE CARY (R-OH): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Carl?
REP. JERRY CARL (R-AL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Carson?
REP. ANDRE CARSON (D-IN): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Carter of Georgia?
REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): Kevin McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Carter of Louisiana?
REP. TROY CARTER (D-LA): Carter of Louisiana votes Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Carter of Texas?
REP. JOHN CARTER (R-TX): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Cartwright?
REP. MATT CARTWRIGHT (D-PA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Casar?
REP. GREG CASAR (D-TX): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Case?
REP. ED CASE (D-HI): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Casten?
REP. SEAN CASTEN (D-IL): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Casto of Florida?
REP. KATHY CASTOR (D-FL): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Castro of Texas?
REP. JOAQUIN CASTRO (D-TX): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Chavez DeRemer?
REP. LORI CHAVEZ DEREMER (R-OR): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Cherfilus-McCormick?
REP. SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK (D-FL): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Chu?
REP. JUDY CHU (D-CA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Cicilline?
REP. JOHN CICILLINE (D-RI): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Ciscomani?
REP. JUAN CISCOMANI (R-AZ): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Clark of Massachusetts?
REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
[14:35:00]
Clark of New York?
REP. YVETTE CLARK (D-NY): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries. Cleaver?
REP. EMANUAL CLEAVER (D-MO): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Cline?
REP. BEN CLINE (R-VA): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Cloud?
REP. MICHAEL CLOUD (R-TX): Jordan.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jordan.
Clyburn?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: So we are going to break in for one second to note that once again Congressman Kevin McCarthy, who can only afford to lose four House Republican votes if he wants to become the next speaker, has lost five House Republican votes, six House Republican votes.
And this time, all of the votes are going to Congressman Jordan as opposed to first ballot when all of them went to Congressman Andy Biggs. So we have six votes for Congressman Jordan right now.
And what is significant for all watching, will there be more than 19 anti-McCarthy votes? Will Kevin McCarthy's vote totals stay at 203 or will it go down, will it go up, John King?
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And then the question is, what's next. This was plan B of the McCarthy opponents, who decided to rally around Jim Jordan, who was not nominated on the first ballot.
Kevin McCarthy is not going to win on the second ballot, on the second vote of the Congress. The Democrat will get the most votes again.
And so the Republicans have to at some point figure out what are we going to do here. We are supposed to be the governing party of the House of Representatives, and we cannot come to a consensus of what to do who is going to lead us.
So never mind what we'll do about immigration, about inflation, the border, America's place in world. This is about, can we find somebody to leader at least for a month or two? And they are failing at the moment.
KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Can we talk about Jim Jordan, and two things, because it is a remarkable address on the floor.
And, Dana, you have covered him on his time of the House. It is a more broadly inspiring speech, and I am not sure how the frame it.
But I have not heard him talk that way necessarily. And certainly compared to the conviction on display with the conviction that Kevin McCarthy does or doesn't routinely display around the issues, the contrast was striking.
And then to have Matt Gaetz get up to say that he made the point on the House, and saying that McCarthy was selling shares of himself, which is a remarkably pointed statement.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Just to add that, to explain to people what just happened here. This is McCarthy's best shot.
If Jim Jordan was going to be able to convince people who wanted to vote for him and people on the second ballot to switch to McCarthy, that would be the best-case scenario for McCarthy.
McCarthy and Jim Jordan, as he said today, they do not see eye to eye. They are not --
(CROSSTALK)
TAPER: What an interesting thing for him to mention.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: And they used to hate each other, and they made a political alliance that is being tested right now.
But it may not be up to Jim Jordan at this point. And I think that if this vote goes much the same way as the last vote, except for more people go to Jim Jordan's column, that is when we will see if there are some more "come to Jesus" conversations with Kevin McCarthy.
DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And the opposition is making the point for all Jim Jordan so far in the reporting of Manu and that all 19 are planning to vote for Jim Jordan before they split the vote.
And that is a message to Kevin McCarthy and Kevin McCarthy's allies, even if you have Jim Jordan out there to make a plea for somebody who he does not necessarily align with, that is not going to sway us, and that is going to leave them nowhere.
PHILLIP: It is not just public whipping votes, but privately, we will see what is going to work, because it has not happen happened so far that works.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And they used to hate each other and Kevin McCarthy brought Jim Jordan into the fold. Jim Jordan is trying to help him. Jordan wants to be chair of the Judiciary Committee.
TAPPER: Was it?
COLLINS: What?
TAPPER: Was it a smart move?
COLLINS: Well, maybe not a smart move, but you can see why Kevin McCarthy did that is my point.
As we are watching this and predicting what is going to happen next, and it is obviously anybody's guess. And Brian Fitzpatrick, of Pennsylvania, a McCarthy ally, he voted for McCarthy. He was saying who could be a viable alternative to McCarthy?
He said it is not somebody inside of the House, but outside of the House of Representatives.
TAPPER: Outside of the House of Representatives?
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: What is interesting about the speech that Congressman Jordan gave, it was officially a renominating speech for the second ballot for Kevin McCarthy.
[14:40:07]
But that was not an ardent explanation of why he loves Kevin McCarthy and thinks that Kevin McCarthy should be speaker of the House.
And it was as you noted, Kasie, an inspiring agenda-filled description of what he wants to do as a leader of the House. I don't think that was lost on anyone.
HUNT: No, I am getting the text messages from the sources who are saying that they are digesting it on the House floor and talking amongst themselves, that was remarkably good, and maybe I should change - I think about that --
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: And vote for Jordan perhaps?
HUNT: Perhaps. Nobody really knows.
(CROSSTALK)
HUNT: I am not saying that people think that he is going to go to 218, and I think that people listened to the speech, and were surprised how good it was.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: There's another group here other than the Freedom Caucus, and this is all of the other people who have been voting for Kevin McCarthy, and that is the moderates.
Who are sitting here and realize that the party is being humiliated. They cannot vote for a speaker, and they cannot organize.
To go back to what our colleague, David Axelrod, up in New York, so perfectly said, when is somebody going to go to Kevin McCarthy saying is, "Dude, they are just not that into you."
And so there a point that some folks may not want Kevin McCarthy.
TAPPER: Although, we should note, we keep talking about how this hasn't happened in a century, Manu Raju. And when it happened in 1923, the speaker ultimately was reelected.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. That was in nine ballots and several days. And that has not been lost on Kevin McCarthy.
And he said that the candidate who had the most votes became the speaker in the ninth round, which is why they plan to grind it out going forward.
The Republicans who are part of the opposition group are all aligning themselves behind Jim Jordan despite Jordan's pleas to support Kevin McCarthy. Right now, eight Republicans supporting Kevin McCarthy -- Congressman Jordan. We expect that number to grow to 19.
Now, what is going to happen on the third ballot, and that is the third question, and as long as Kevin McCarthy is in this race, and no viable alternative is going to emerge.
And this is the reality on the House floor, and there are people who are not going to run against Kevin McCarthy, including the leadership team, including Steve Scalise, and this is not going to happen if he continues to be in this race.
And he has not indicated that he is moving forward. So again, with rein the situation of unchartered waters the, and what is going to be happening here.
And the fact is that the conservatives are not swayed. And Bob Good said, that there's nothing that Kevin McCarthy can do to sway him and his vote. He said he is never going to become speaker with Kevin McCarthy, and that's what Good said about McCarthy moments ago.
TAPPER: And Lauren Fox, also on Capitol Hill for us, it does appear that the 19 rebels are unifying behind, instead of five candidates, they are all getting behind Congressman Jordan.
But it does suggest that there was no plan B among the House leadership, and no plan for, well, if Kevin McCarthy does not win on the first or the second ballot, then Steve Scalise is going to fall in line, and that is up to him.
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That is what you heard, Jake, from the McCarthy allies, is that they never had a backup plan.
And in fact, you have an awkward situation on the floor where you have Jim Jordan nominating Kevin McCarthy to be the next speaker. And you have these conservatives trying to rally around Jim Jordan, who made it clear he does not want the job, and repeatedly said that he does not want the job, and he would not have the votes.
And this is what the moderates have told me for week. And so who else is going to be getting the vote for this job? Kevin McCarthy is short 19 votes. But it is not necessarily that he would not get nothing.
And in fact, it is true that the others may not have the vote either. And Steve Scalise is somebody they could rally around, and it is what Manu Raju and I and others have been reporting on. It's not clear either.
So, Jake, lawmakers, really, are in this tricky box canyon because they don't want McCarthy, at least the conservatives don't, but they have nowhere else to go.
TAPPER: So, Dana Bash, we are watching these 19 rebels fall in line behind Congressman Jordan.
I remember having a conservation with a Democratic Congressman a year ago and we were talking about what would likely happen in the midterm, and how the House Republicans would likely win.
[14:45:10]
And she said that she didn't think that Kevin McCarthy was going to be speaker, and she thought that Jim Jordan had been -- she had heard the whispers from the colleagues that Jim Jordan would actually end up.
And that was just gossip. But it was from a member of Congress. And we are certainly watching something interesting play out now.
BASH: Yes. And the fact that he gave the speech nominating McCarthy, and they are now consolidating.
Now, it could be something as innocent as, what you were saying, Abby, and hearing, that Jordan is making a point of being public in the support and trying to get the dissenters along and the dissenters saying, no, no, no, we won't be with you, McCarthy, and we are going to support Jordan.
Or there could be something else going on behind the scenes, and that this could be a very, very clever game of chess as opposed to what appears to be happening before us.
I think it is unlikely, but why not?
HUNT: You mentioned gossip, and I have to say, Jake, the floor of the House is not unlike a high school cafeteria or hallway.
TAPPER: Right.
HUNT: Gossip becomes something, it can run out of control. What starts as rumors can become things that people don't expect.
I is important to pay attention to all of the moments, to that Jordan speech and the reaction it to, and how it is playing out.
Because the reality is that, yes, it is possible, Dana, that there are chess moves people are prepared to make that we don't know about.
But there's also a scenario that what is playing out is going to dictate the outcome, and we don't know how anything that is happening on the floor right now may ultimately influence who is going to become eventually the speak over the House.
TAPPER: John King, you and I have been in this town for a long time. What is your interpretation of the Jim Jordan speech? It sounded like a Jim Jordan nominating speech?
KING: It sounds like a Jim Jordan speech. Jim Jordan likes his role. He wants to be the chairman of the Judiciary Committee or the Oversight Committee. That's the role he likes.
As the speaker of the House, you have to manage the herd. And Jim Jordan knows as well as anybody he may be a member, sometimes an unruly member of that heard, he knows what it's like in the chaos of the House.
Do you want to manage that? Do you really want that number-one job because of the responsibilities of it. Or do you want to be the bulldozer to go after Hunter Biden and Joe Biden or cabinet members to impeach them?
It does conflict Jim Jordan. Is he ambitious? Does he want power?: Absolutely.
So he want -- has his dream always been to be bulldozer in chief investigator? Yes. So the question is, they have to look in the mirror. There's six or eight potentials.
Jamie mentioned the more centrist Republicans, more pragmatic governing conservatives. They don't want Jim Jordan as speaker.
GANGEL: Yes.
KING: They think he's trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: So can he get to 218?
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Would he like to get to 218? Everybody on the floor is ambitious and everybody on that flood might change their mind and, suddenly, I've got 50 votes for you.
But the challenge is going, coming from outside the House? Eventually, Kevin McCarthy's argument, the consensus is that you are embarrassing the party, you are embarrassing yourself, you're embarrassing the institution. You're making us look like clowns to the country. The problem for Kevin McCarthy is, if he loses again or on a third or fourth ballot, when does he have to look in the mirror and say, the math is not there.
And the longer, I hang on, I am embarrassing myself. I'm embossing the institution. I'm embarrassing the party. And I'm embarrassing the process here.
(CROSSTALK)
KING: Some grownup has to step up at some point and say, somebody has to get to 218 or why don't you just elect Hakeem Jeffries speaker and say the Republicans can't govern here.
GANGEL: I think that we will look back at the second vote as the ego vote for Jim Jordan. These are his votes. The math is not there for Kevin McCarthy. Will he get there down the road? We don't know yet.
But this is the vote of Jim Jordan's people for him knowing that the math is not there yet for Kevin McCarthy. And the move of these centrists has not happened yet to say to Kevin McCarthy that we need to look elsewhere.
KING: Can they then get Jim Jordan to go to Kevin McCarthy, I am not going to win, and you are not either. So figure it out.
BASH: And right now, the centrist and the more -- I don't know what we call them now, the extremes, they are saying opposite. They are telling McCarthy, do not give up.
(CROSSTALK)
PHILLIP: When you are looking at McCarthy's leadership team, it is not centrist team. You are looking will at people pretty to the right. In some cases, you could argue at the moment.
TAPPER: Let's listen in.
[14:50:00]
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
TAPPER: Oh, Jim Jordan voted for McCarthy.
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: Just keeping an eye. Keeping an eye on it. OK. Jordan voted for McCarthy.
(CROSSTALK
PHILLIP: So, to me, the question is, how long can McCarthy keep his people in line. The Scalises and the Jordans and the Stefanics. Keep them from coming to him and saying, hey, it's over.
(CROSSTALK) And I don't know what the answer is. I am not sure anyone does because any one of them I think could be that person to go to him and it may not be them who has their name put up in a nomination but how they decide that I think could determine how the rest of this --
TAPPER: Well, the votes are still coming in. There's no end as of now in sight to this speaker's standoff. An open revolt against Republican leader, Kevin McCarthy.
Stay with us to find out what happens next. We'll squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[14:55:23]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: We are watching events unfold in the House of Representatives, unlike anything that has happened in the last century. Members taking an extraordinary second vote to elect a speaker.
Republican leader, Kevin McCarthy, apparently losing again, this time to Republican hardlines who block McCarthy in round one are banding together to vote for Republican Congressman Jim Jordan.
That doesn't change the bottom line, however. The House still doesn't have a speaker. It's not clear how or when this open warfare among House Republicans may end.
Back with our team now as we continue to watch the counting of the votes and the roll call.
Alyssa, what do you see at play?
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So I suspect that the Freedom Caucus, the right flank blocking Kevin McCarthy right now, are running a 2015 playbook.
I was, at the time, the comms director. Ad what they were planning to do then, allow it to go to multiple ballots to show Paul Ryan didn't have the majority and that Jim Jordan couldn't be speaker before ultimately having, you know, the beleaguered tired folks unite around a consensus candidate.
Back then it was going to be Mike Pompeo. I'm curious if Jordan is a strawman for the right now and that they have someone else up their sleeves that they're going to put up to be speaker.
It's a long shot but there's a level of orchestration here that I actually think the Freedom Caucus deserves credit for that makes me think they have another play at hand.
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: They have more than that of McCarthy. Someone voting for McCarthy said as long as it takes, McCarthy. Which isn't really a plan, right? It doesn't very strong. It sounds
fairly thirsty and desperate at this point so we'll see what happens on the third ballot.
This small band so far of 19 people seems to be much more organized than McCarthy.
COOPER: Alyssa, if that strategy was the plan back in 2015, had Hillary Clinton won. What is the end goal, not to get Jordan across the line but have somebody else be speaker that's more to the liking of the right.
GRIFFIN: That's basically the case. There's a sense Jordan couldn't get to 218. That may be different. In the post-Trump era, he's emerged as this kind of rock star on the right.
I imagine the speech he gave on the floor nominating Kevin McCarthy shortly ago actually did more to flip more votes for them than Kevin McCarthy.
COOPER: It was a slightly different tone than or sort of a broader --
(CROSSTALK)
GRIFFIN: Sounded like a candidate. So perhaps the play is Jim Jordan but I wouldn't be surprised if it's basically teeing up anyone but Kevin.
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Can I say, we should note how ironic it is that two years after the January 6th insurrection Jim Jordan is a central player in this drama.
Who was the guy who was speaking to the president on January 6th who was referred to the Ethics Committee by the January 6th committee for his role, who was rejected for the January 6th committee because of his role.
And now he's described as a rock star. I accept that description, a rock star on the right, but, man, what a turn of events here.
This is exactly -- you know, in the election, voters, Republican, Democrat and Independent, came together and said we're done with election denial. We're unhappy with the insurrection.
And now here's a hero of that group of the insurrectionists who emerges as a central player.
COOPER: Also a possible future chairman of the Judiciary Committee.
AXELROD: Yes.
MONDAIRE JONES, (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Don't forget Kevin McCarthy was also referred to the House Ethics Committee on, which I served until a few hours to me.
It's not clear if you haven't been sworn in yet the members of the 117th continue to serve. We'll figure that out.
I think what you described as something of a long shot might have been true a few weeks ago. But I think it's clear they will not vote for Kevin McCarthy.
And so the purpose now that they seem to have is to establish their seriousness before them pivoting to another candidate.
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I feel like we'll be a standoff. Who bends first? Do the folks who are the only Kevin folks, do they say maybe we need to move elsewhere?
Or do these 19, do they decide, OK, they've made their point? Do they come back? I don't know right now.
COOPER: They're sort of the only Kevin-ish folks.
(CROSSTALK
[14:59:59]
AXELROD: Right.
DENT: Goes from --
(CROSSTALK)
AXELROD: Morally Kevin.
COOPER: You kind of agree with Alyssa that this is kind of -- there's a strategy here?
JONES: I think there's a strategy here. I think the idea that Jim Jordan and others
