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CNN Live Event/Special
Now: McCarthy Appears To Suffer Defeat In 4th Speaker Ballot. Rep. David Joyce (R-OH) Discusses Speakership Vote; 5th Speaker Vote Soon As McCarthy's Path Remains Uncertain. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired January 04, 2023 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: If ultimately it becomes clear that there just are not going to be enough votes for Kevin McCarthy, who would -- and I understand this is not your first choice, you don't want this to happen.
But is there a candidate that can step into the breach? It doesn't appear to be Congressman Donalds or Jordan or Biggs.
Is there someone you think might also be able to be an effective speaker?
REP. DAVID JOYCE (R-OH): Well, there's plenty of people in here who could be an effective speaker. But Kevin deserves the opportunity because he's been a hell of a leader throughout the process and put together with all of us and laid out the guidelines for the commitment to America.
He's the one that helped raise the money to help a lot of candidates voting against him stay alive in their races and he put this majority together. He deserves the opportunity to lead it.
You know, there are other people who can step up, sure. You know what, they keep playing games. It could be Hakeem. Let them keep playing that game.
But they're delaying all the things we told Americans we were going to do, all the reasons that if we took over the majority we would make happen.
And all we do is sit here and twiddle our thumbs while they continue to play games, beat their chest and fundraise off the fact they're blocking the natural progression of our leadership.
TAPPER: So we see on the floor right now, we see McCarthy allies, including Jim Jordan, including Congressman Mike Gallagher, Jason Smith, Barry Loudermilk, others, trying to negotiate with the rebels and trying to talk to Scott Perry, trying to talk to Matt Gaetz.
We see Byron Donalds, who just got 20 votes ,talking to Congressman Tom Emmer, another McCarthy ally and aide.
Are there deals being cut or are people just saying along the lines of what we just heard from you, you're just standing in the way of progress here, you're just standing in the way of a conservative agenda, cut it out?
JOYCE: Well, you know, yesterday, they said they had a group of eight candidates that -- potential candidates. They probably sprayed it out there in the first round.
Then they solidified on Jim Jordan who actively said he didn't want to be speaker and so had to go through a couple rounds of that. Then today, they were on Byron. Tomorrow, who knows. Maybe they'll put up Gaetz. But they'll continue to go down a list.
But anybody in their right mind would have to look at this situation and say, do I want to be the speaker? I mean, I would hope that sometime, knowing my dear friend Pete Aguilar and Hakeem Jeffries, they would do that.
I'm a Cleveland Browns fan and hope springs eternal. But it would start to get it moving and go back to the days of Tip O'Neill and Ronald Reagan.
You can talk to each other and you can have debate on issues and still come to the center of agreement where you're not getting everything. But in the majority, maybe get 80 percent, good, let's move forward.
Our country needs that and our voters demanded that. And that's what we were supposed to be doing with our majority.
TAPPER: Right now, there's a bipartisan event going on, on the Kentucky side of the bridge between Covington, Kentucky, across from Cincinnati, Ohio.
It is a bipartisan event with President Biden and Mitch McConnell and Sherrod Brown and a whole bunch of Democrats and Republicans who worked together to pass that bipartisan infrastructure bill.
When we do the split screen of it -- we're doing it right now -- you see Democrats, Republicans on the left side of the screen in Covington, then complete dysfunction in Capitol Hill among House Republicans on the right side of the screen.
What kind of message do you think that sends?
JOYCE: I like the message on my left better of what's taking place, progress being made in Kentucky. Obviously, that Brent Spence Bridge needed to be repaired for decades. Think of the amount of traffic that goes over there flowing up and down from Detroit to Florida. It's important and needs to be done.
That's the kind of thing that needs to be fixed around us. Our bridges, our ports, they just continue to get in a state of disrepair because we can't do simple things like elect a leader and move on.
We got to get back to having true leadership and making committees and things happen. And again, you know, Byron Donalds, this morning, I watched him as I
was working out, go across all the different camera screens in the gym.
You know, if you're going to fundraise off this tell people you want to be a fundraiser and get out of the business. This business is serious negotiation among real legislators.
And that's what happens when you put Democrats and Republicans in a room.
TAPPER: Congressman Dave Joyce, Republican of Ohio, always good to have you on. Thank you, sir.
[13:34:38]
We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to CNN special live coverage. Kevin McCarthy talking to someone on the House floor. No speaker still after four ballots so far.
Right now, a lot of McCarthy allies trying to corral the hardliners, lobby them to change their mind.
Joining me, CNN's Lauren Fox.
Lauren, what are you hearing?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are watching on the floor that after McCarthy tried to soft sell and then a hard sell, with no success, he is really fanning out those deputies on the floor of the House trying to get them to make their pitch to those rebel 20 still not voting for McCarthy.
One of the most interesting things we saw on the floor a few minutes ago, Jim Jordan, who used to sometimes be a foe of leadership, fighting for McCarthy on the floor in a heated and passionate discussion with Matt Gaetz.
Some of this color coming from our colleague, Annie Greer, who is inside the chamber and is sending some of this great reporting back to us.
You know, one other thing to remember, Anderson, is Jim Jordan is also talking to McCarthy, filling him in on what he's hearing from those rebels on the floor.
(CROSSTALK)
[13:40:01]
COOPER: We're seeing them literally talking right now. FOX: Yes, I mean, it shows something so different than what we saw
yesterday, Anderson, when everyone was really entrenched on their sides. Is there going to be a breakthrough? Is this some kind of -- we just don't know.
COOPER: Let's listen in.
(GAVEL)
CHERYL JOHNSON, HOUSE CLERK: Will the House be in order?
The tellers agree in their tallies. The tellers agree in their tallies that the total number of votes cast is 433. Of which the honorable Hakeem Jeffries of the state of New York has received 212.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
JOHNSON: The honorable Kevin McCarthy of the state of California has received 201.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
JOHNSON: The honorable Byron Donalds of the state of Florida has received 20.
(CHEERING)
(APPLAUSE)
JOHNSON: With one member-elect recorded as present.
No member-elect having received a majority of the whole number of votes cast, a speaker has not been elected.
For what purpose does the gentleman from Ohio seek recognition?
REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): Madam Speaker, I rise to nominate Kevin McCarthy as speaker of the House.
(APPLAUSE)
JOHNSON: The gentleman is recognized.
(APPLAUSE)
DAVIDSON: Now, why would I -- why would I as a conservative, as an Army Ranger, business guy, the first guy that the House Freedom Caucus backed in a congressional race, why would I nominate Kevin McCarthy to become the next speaker of the House?
Why would Jim Jordan? Why would other conservatives like Thomas Massie, Jim Banks, Kevin Hern and others support Kevin McCarthy as speaker of the House?
You know, something in our nature as humans causes us to dehumanize others when we engage in conflict. Dehumanizing others makes it easier to ascribe bad motives and to engage in the fight.
But it also makes it harder to understand one another. As actions push further disagreement, arguments tend to escalate rather than resolve. We're on the precipice of such a destructive argument today.
I plead with all, all of my Republican colleagues, let cooler, more rational heads prevail. Let us unite as Republicans to elect the next speaker of the House.
Unlike Democrats, nearly every Republican at least campaigns on some form of smaller, more accountable government. Once we get here, the bipartisan consensus keeps growing a bigger, less accountable government.
The American people know that the status quo is broken, that we become less free, less safe and more burdened by debt.
The American people are sick and tired of it. And they keep sending us reinforcements, reinforcements that today help make up our small majority.
But a majority is only a majority if we actually work together.
Now, lots of people back home don't trust anyone in this town. Perhaps we would be wise to listen to them and some wisdom from Ronald Reagan. Trust, but verify.
[13:45:04]
Trust is a fragile condition and easily broken.
As I've listened to my friends, 20 of whom have opposed Kevin McCarthy as speaker of the House, and others, the root issue is this. They do not trust Kevin McCarthy. What can heal that divide?
(APPLAUSE)
DAVIDSON: Right now, there are a lot of colleagues that don't trust 20 or more of my fellow Republicans.
(APPLAUSE)
DAVIDSON: Right now, though, we remain divided a majority, an actual majority of the House Freedom Caucus members do support Kevin McCarthy.
This summer, a unified House Freedom Caucus started the negotiations with a proposal for new rules. A different way to govern that empowers committees and regular members.
We proposed a set of tools could be structured to make trust more verifiable and allow recourse if that trust is ever broken. Following the election, Kevin McCarthy engaged in that negotiation. He
led the conference to adopt substantive reforms that will make our majority more effective.
Let me list some of them. Andrew Clyde's proposal to restore public access to the capitol. Lauren Boebert's proposal to reduce the linkage been NCCC and the Steering Committee process. Gary Palmer's proposal to cap spending on suspension bills.
Chip Roy's proposal to provide a five-day notice for suspension votes. Dan Bishop's proposal in privileged resolutions. Scott Perry's proposal for additional conference meetings ahead of key votes. Bob Good's proposal on stand-alone appropriations bills.
Andy Biggs' proposal limiting suspension waivers from committees. Chip Roy's proposal to make sponsored amendments in order, a firm 72-hour publication of bills before calling for a recorded vote and end to proxy voting, an afternoon end to remote participation and committee work by members of Congress.
The role and unblocked suspension votes and major reform worked out with Morgan Griffin, what we hope to call the Griffin bill, on single bills on orders of amendment. Diverse viewpoints on every committee.
Lastly, a Church-style commission was added to the Judiciary Committee focused on the abuses our own big government has unjustly collaborated with big business and big tech to silence, persecute or even prosecute our fellow citizens.
As Thomas Massie pointed out, Elon Musk bought a crime scene.
Now that we know in the public knows, the question is what in the hell are we going to do about it?
This answers that with oversight by our most effective member, my friend and colleague, Congressman Jim Jordan. We are a big and diverse conference.
It goes back to strategy. Can we accept incremental progress? Can we work for a victory, one first down at a time? Or can we only accept a high-risk trick play? Can we set about the hard work about winning debates with our colleagues, as we have done through this process.
Can we take a win every now and then and give hope to the forgotten men and women of America who no longer believe this place, this people's House cares about them.
Or having achieved nearly every concession we asked for, including a motion to vacate the chair with one privilege resolution, does it really boil down to in that 20 or more of my colleagues will never trust Kevin McCarthy as speaker?
I feel, at this time, we risk a worse outcome if we cannot unite behind the man that has helped us achieve these substantive reforms.
Reforms that offer all of us, this whole body, hope for change in this broken status quo, reforms that our voters have demanded, reforms that we've worked hard together to achieve.
And finally, reforms that we risk forfeiting if we do not work together as Republicans to elect the next speaker of the House.
Now is the time for deeds, not words. And I nominate Kevin McCarthy for speaker of the House. I humbly ask for your support.
(APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
[13:50:18]
JOHNSON: For what purposes does the gentleman from California rise?
REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): Madam Clerk, I rise to nominate Hakeem Jeffries as speaker of the House.
(APPLAUSE)
AGUILAR: Madam Clerk, the lead vote getter in the last four tallies, Democrats are united behind a speaker who'll work to codify the right to seek abortion into law.
Like all of us --
(APPLAUSE)
AGUILAR: Like all of us, Hakeem has spoken about, consistently, the disastrous Dobbs decision. He's spoken time and time again that it is well past time to codify Roe v. Wade.
And he knows that young women should not grow up in a world with fewer rights than their parents and grandparents.
(APPLAUSE)
AGUILAR: He will ensure that reproductive freedom is enshrined into law.
That's why, Madam Clerk, as chair of the Democratic caucus, I am directed by caucus to present for election Hakeem Jeffries, representative-elect from New York, as our next speaker.
APPLAUSE)
(CHEERING)
JOHNSON: For what purpose does the gentlewoman rise?
REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): Madam Clerk, I rise to nominate Congressman Byron Donald.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNSON: The gentlewoman is recognized. BOEBERT: I rise to nominate Byron Donald, my friend, an amazing man of Florida, an amazing leader, someone who almost took leadership in our Republican Party. He came very close to doing so. And it was a very brave run that he took.
He's a man who understands what tough times look like, and has comes out more stronger, more liberated and as a leader.
Now, we just heard from my respected colleague from Ohio and he stated amazing rules that we've been able to get an agreement on, I think.
We were threatened heavily in conference saying ,if we don't do as we ought, then, some of those rules may just go away. But, even naming the germaneness rule, which is fantastic, after Morgan Griffith, that is fantastic.
Why didn't the opposing leader of the Republican Party present these rules? Why were we fought so hard on these rules? The barrier that still stands in the way of these rules is the structure that prevents us from rolling over.
As my friend, Chip Roy, stated, we need the tools and the leadership to do our job correctly. And I believe that Byron Donald is the man to lead us.
To negotiate in good faith, to help unify our party on border security, energy security, debt reduction, term limits, ear marks among other many commonsense policies.
But, too often, our efforts have fallen on deaf ears. Our border is wide open. Inflation is out of control. The Senate just passed $1.7 trillion without our input.
So, let me be clear, our job is not to coronate the biggest fundraiser, or keep on going on to get along. It's to use our vote to elect a speaker who'll enable us to get our country back on track.
Getting the job done is what we were elected to do. And that starts with having a leader who supports Republican principles, builds consensus, and has a proven track record of success. Byron Donalds, is that leader.
Republicans, including many moderates, have been impressed by Byron Donalds. They're impressed by his ability to work together. They respect his leadership.
[13:55:09]
We see him as someone who can communicate what we're all wanting to do in this House to Americans.
And he represents so much more than just his district in Florida. Many, millions of Americans all over this nation praise the work and the leadership of Byron Donalds.
So, let's work together. Let's stop with the campaign smears and tactics to get people to turn against us, even having my favorite president call us and tell us we need to knock this off.
I think it actually needs to be reversed. The president needs to tell Kevin McCarthy that, sir, you do not have the votes and it's time to withdraw.
(BOOING)
BOEBERT: With that, I yield. Thank you.
JOHNSON: Yield back?
BOEBERT: Yes, ma'am.
JOHNSON: The reading clerk will again call the roll.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Adams?
REP. ALMA ADAMS (D-NC): Jeffries,
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Aderholt?
REP. ROBERT ADERHOLT (R-AL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Aguilar?
REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): Jeffries.
HCC: Jeffries.
Alford?
REP. MARK ALFORD (R-MO): McCarthy.
HCC: McCarthy.
Allen?
REP. RICK ALLEN (R-GA): McCarthy
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Allred?
REP. COLIN ALLRED (D-TX): Jeffries,
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Amodei?
REP. MARK AMODEI (R-NV): McCarthy,
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy. Armstrong? Armstrong?
Arrington?
REP. JODEY ARRINGTON (R-TX): McCarthy.
HCC: McCarthy.
Auchincloss?
REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS (D-MO): Jeffries.
HCC: Jeffries.
Babin?
REP. BRIAN BABIN (R-TX): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bacon?
REP. DON BACON (R-NE): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Baird?
REP. JAMES BAIRD (R-IN): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Balderson?
REP. TROY BALDERSON (R-OH): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Ballat (ph)?
REP. BALLAT (ph): Jeffries?
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Banks?
REP. JIM BANKS (R-IN): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Barr?
REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): McCarthy.
HCC: McCarthy.
Barragan?
REP. NANETTE BARRAGAN (D-CA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Beanz (ph) of Florida?
REP. BEANZ (ph): Kevin McCarthy.
HCC: McCarthy.
Beaty?
REP. JOYCE BEATY (D-OH): Jeffries.
HCC: Bentz?
REP. CLIFF BENTZ (R-OR): McCarthy.
HHC: McCarthy.
Bera?
REP AMI BERA (D-CA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Bergman?
REP. JACK BERGMAN (R-MI): McCarthy.
HCC: McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Beyer?
REP. DON BEYER (D-VA): Jeffries.
HCC: Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Bice? Bice?
Biggs?
Donalds?
Bilirakis?
REP. GUS BILIRAKIS (R-FL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bishop of Georgia?
REP. SANFORD BISHOP (D-GA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries. Bishop of North Carolina?
REP. DAN BISHOP (R-NC): Donalds.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Donalds.
Blumenauer?
REP. EARL BLUMENAUER (D-OR): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Blunt Rochester?
REP. LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER (D-DE): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Boebert?
REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): Donalds.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Donalds.
Bonamici?
REP. SUZANNE BONAMICI (D-OR): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Bost? Bost?
REP. MIKE BOST (R-IL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bowman?
REP. JAMAAL BOWMAN (D-NY): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Boyle of Pennsylvania?
REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Bakin (ph)?
REP. BAKIN (ph) (R): Donalds.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Donalds.
Brown?
REP. ANTHONY BROWN (D-MD): Jeffries.
