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CNN Live Event/Special
Now: McCarthy Appears To Suffer Defeat On 5th Speaker Ballot; Rep. Victoria Spartz (R-IN) Discusses Speakership Vote. Aired 2:30-3p ET
Aired January 04, 2023 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[14:31:13]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Hey, and welcome back to CNN's special live coverage. Pressure building on Kevin McCarthy as he falls short once more on the bid to become speaker. Now are there more and more having McCarthy's back or does support have a sell-by date?
Lauren Fox has been speaking to members on and off the record.
Lauren joins us now.
Lauren, Donalds is the alternative candidate at the moment. Just spoke to reporters. What did he say?
LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Very interesting. He told Manu Raju he has spoken to Kevin McCarthy and he does plan to speak to him again.
Pressed on whether or not he thought McCarthy should drop out of the race, Donalds said he wouldn't answer that question. I think it's interesting that he's really keeping people guessing here.
Here's what he said to reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Congressman, are you actually running for speaker or is this more about continuing the conversation and finding a place for Kevin McCarthy
REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): Well, they nominated me, didn't they?
(CROSSTALK)
DONALDS: Look, I think right now it's something, I told my colleagues, like, I didn't come to dc interested in becoming speaker of the House.
But I also understand that part of my responsibility is to make sure that our conference gets to a point where we're doing the things effectively and constructive way to campaign back home.
(CROSSTALK) DONALDS: I'm going to help anyway I can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FOX: Donalds was spelling one concession that he wants to see from McCarthy and that's lowering the threshold of a number of members it takes to call the vote for speaker from five oh just one. That is a key ask from Freedom Caucus members.
We will see if it makes a difference and delivers McCarthy the vote even if he did agree to it -- Anderson?
COOPER: Lauren Fox, appreciate it.
Back with the team in New York.
The idea of lowering the number to just one?
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Insane. I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: What with would that mean?
DENT: It's one vote on the floor, go to the floor, to move, to vacate the chair, in other words to fire the speaker. Under these circumstances, by the way, Kevin McCarthy handed the rope to his opponents to wrap the noose around his neck.
COOPER: Right now. there are people who would use that.
DENT: Even five is bad. And one is ridiculous. That was the rule when John Boehner was speaker.
The Democrats were smart. When they took the majority, they raised the threshold to 50. And McCarthy would like to bring it down to five.
But I don't imagine why they would concede to something like this. It's time to stop appeasing these people.
COOPER: And also is it about that rule even?
NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, this has been going back to where they were in the past, lowering it to one, they seemed to settle on five and be fine with it. And agree to that.
So, this is, again, it isn't about these minor, you know, sort of rules and the motion to vacate the chair. It's about they don't like you. Kevin McCarthy. That's it.
And you know, Lauren Boebert laid it out when she said we want the rules changed but we want a different kind of leader. What kind of leader? He suggested this might be the last time that he supports Kevin McCarthy for speaker.
May be, he was either the last time or maybe he'll do it again, but he's clearly open to changing.
Pete Sessions has been on our air, essentially saying the same thing, saying, what does the 20 want in terms of who would they accept as a speaker? Because it's clear they're not accepting Kevin McCarthy.
MONDAIRE JONES, (D), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: We have evidence that they're not serious about getting to a place on Kevin McCarthy because Donalds was a Kevin McCarthy supporter. And did not raise his proposition just now until recently.
COOPER: Let's listen to the end of the roll call?
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy?
Yakym?
REP. RUDY YAKYM (R-IN): McCarthy.
[14:35:01]
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Zinke?
REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
COOPER: They have to go back on the people that did not vote.
DENT: She has to go back.
CHERYL JOHNSON, HOUSE CLERK: The reading clerk will now call the names of the members-elect who did not answer the first call of the roll.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Armstrong?
REP. KELLY ARMSTRONG (R-ND): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Bice?
REP. STEPHANIE BICE (R-OK): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Buck?
REP. KEN BUCK (R-CO): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Cloud?
REP. MICHAEL CLOUD (R-TX): Donalds. HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Donalds.
Crenshaw?
REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Davidson?
REP. WARREN DAVIDSON (R-OH): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Garbarino?
REP. ANDREW GARBARINO (R-NY): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Grothman?
REP. GLENN GROTHMAN (R-WI): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Jackson Lee?
REP. SHEILA JACKSON LEE (D-TX): Hakeem Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Pelosi?
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Presley?
REP. AYANNA PRESSLEY (D-MA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Rodgers of Washington?
REP. CATHY MCMORRIS RODGERS (R-WA): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Salazar?
REP. MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR (R-FL): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Santos?
REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): McCarthy.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: McCarthy.
Schiff?
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Jeffries.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Jeffries.
Spartz?
REP. VICTORIA SPARTZ (R-IN): Present.
HOUSE CHIEF CLERK: Present.
COOPER: So, what is the significance -- Congressman Jones, what is the significance of Congressman Buck saying perhaps this is the last time he will vote for Kevin McCarthy.
JONES: Ken Buck, one of the more moderate, bipartisan members of the House GOP, saying --
COOPER: Someone who you've worked with.
JONES: Some who I worked with on the Judiciary Committee who, at times, will break from Jim Jordan when it comes to standing up to big tech for example.
[14:40:00]
In any event, the fact that he is saying that there's a time certain by which McCarthy has to secure his speakership is a really bad bellwether for McCarthy.
DENT: He wants to be a free agent is essentially what he said. I'm going to be open to somebody else. And that's not encouraging if you're Kevin McCarthy.
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I suspect that you will see the dam breaking quickly. Among Republican members, it's in Kevin McCarthy's best interest to keep everyone on the floor and keep going to multiple rounds.
Because once they break from the floor, they are going to have to break for a meeting and hash it out.
We can't do this forever. Let's talk about the implications.
We have no sworn-in House members. Say we had a national security crisis, there's no chair of the Intel Committee in the House. There's no speaker of the House right now.
This is an untenable position to carry on purely because Kevin McCarthy will not step down and try someone else like a Steve Scalise. I thought it was interesting that his name was the one floated by Ken
Buck. Because I worked with Ken Buck when he was in the Freedom Caucus. He's a pretty conservative guy. He's pretty aligned with some of the no votes here.
But he signaled that he would be willing to go to the next guy in line, which is Scalise, who, by the way, has a highly professional team, has a leadership office, and could pretty seamlessly transition into speaker of the House if it went that way.
HENDERSON: Listen, this has been a terrible day or Kevin McCarthy. He needs to hold people, he failed at doing that White House you saw the defection with Spartz there. And he needs to peel people away. He's failed at that.
The 20 only need to hold the line and they have done that over and over again. They put up Donalds. It doesn't matter who they put up. They could put up Peppa Pig and they could still hold up the line.
The strategy is simple, a small but mighty band of people who have done what they wanted do, which is to block Kevin McCarthy over and over again.
COOPER: What is the chance of an adjournment?
DENT: It's up to the Democrats. When the Democrats want to adjourn, that's when they'll adjourn. I suspect the Democrats will allow the Republicans to stew in their own muck a while longer.
They will have dinner at some point, may be at 5:30-6:00. They will have enough and agree to adjourn. And that's where we are.
And I suspect, right now, this merry little band of destroyers, they may win out on this in the short-term on McCarthy.
COOPER: How does it actually work? Does somebody then go to Steve Scalise and --
DENT: Well, what will happen is that it's incumbent upon Kevin McCarthy to make the decision to withdraw. Obviously, he hasn't done that yet.
COOPER: It has to be his step?
DENT: Yes. He would have to take his name out of consideration.
Now, how that happens? I suspect his key alleys will talk to him and say he needs do it for the good of the country and the institution. And if he were to step back, you may see more people, like Scalise, jumping in who wants to be speaker. But I suspect Steve Scalise seems to be the most likely candidate after --
COOPER: It seems highly unlikely. I mean, McCarthy has been wanting this for years and has debased himself continually to get this.
GRIFFIN: I think that the more likely scenario is that someone else nominates Steve Scalise without consulting, he gets a number of votes and ultimately, the conference decides to break and have that "come to Jesus" moment of,, Kevin can't get there, who is it going to be?
That will interesting. It's not a foregone conclusion that Stefanik wouldn't want to put her name up. So even that is not necessarily the case. To me, Steve Scalise makes sense, but this is a tough caucus to corral. And --
JONES: He would have to accept the nomination as well. Scalise could decline the nomination.
At this point, Kevin McCarthy has lost the speaker's race. The rest is gravy for his detractors.
Tt reminds me of the game, Mortal Combat, after you defeated the opponent, the referee is like, "finish him".
Yesterday, it was Matt Gaetz sending a letter to the architect of the capitol, saying, please advise how Kevin McCarthy can reside in the speaker's office having lost on three consecutive ballots?
This is embarrassment after embarrassment.
COOPER: As you say, he has 200-plus votes in his name. No one else has amassed those votes --
HENDERSON: Yes. I mean, at this point, 201 votes and $1.50 will get you coffee. It's not going to get you the speakership at this point.
You know, you hear his supporters coming on and saying, you know, they hope something happens and they hope they could bring these 20 folks on. But hope is not a strategy at this point.
And everything they've done so far hasn't worked. They thought that the break would help them and that hasn't helped either.
[14:45:03]
COOPER: Yes.
We'll take a short break. Our coverage continues in just a moment.
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JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Drama and dysfunction continuing, ruling the House floor. Kevin McCarthy suffering a fifth straight defeat in his bid to become speaker of the United States House of Representatives. In fact, he is losing votes in successive ballots.
Let's bring Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, of Indiana. She's a Republican who voted for Kevin McCarthy three times and, in the last two ballots, has switched to "present."
Why, Congressman? Why vote present?
[14:50:01] SPARTZ: Well, I think it's important for us as Republicans to address concerns and come to an agreement and not waste everyone's time.
And we need to have further deliberation to make sure we can elect a speaker, and we still need to have a discussion. Members have concerns.
We need to go back to the conference room and have this discussion, not wasting time on the floor because no one is going to budge. It's not going to change.
And I think we have a constitutional duty to elect the people. This body needs to learn to deliberate and come to an agreement.
TAPPER: Congressman Ken Buck of Colorado has voted for McCarthy five times, but he said this last vote for McCarthy is at was the last one McCarthy can count on.
He's pushing for there to be a resolution for this by today. And he's even suggesting even Steve Scalise should be next in line to try to become speaker.
What do you think of that?
SPARTZ: I think we should have discussions. Kevin needs to meet with people, see if we can get there. These are legitimate concerns people have. It's how the funding goes, and how really the floor functions. And so these are concerns we can address.
But we need to address them internally. We have to have deliberation, not accusing people, not really, you know, having people made into evils because everyone has an independent vote, and we're only accountable to the people who we represent.
No one is entitled to any vote, and Kevin will work hard. But he didn't make a case with some of the people. He needs to make a case and address some concerns. We need to go back because right now we are wasting time.
And, you know, it's not the first time that it took a while for us to get a speaker. So it's OK. It's normal process of deliberation. But it has to happen.
Instead of getting up on the floor and doing the same the same, it's not going to change the dynamics. That's why I felt like there was no one there on the Republican side that was able to get enough votes for the speaker. So we have to deliberate further.
TAPPER: You're right, it's not the first time. But the last time was literally 100 years ago, 1923. That went to nine ballots.
How many ballots do you think Kevin McCarthy should keep going before you adjourn and hammer something out with a clear candidate who can get 218 votes?
SPARTZ: I think we should be adjourning now. We should really instead of going home last night, we should have stayed up all night until we figured out, you know, how we can get a speaker or if you have the same one, it's OK, too.
We actually have a constitutional duty to elect a speaker, but to send them on the floor and just stand up and do the same thing is not getting us anywhere.
So we do need to recess and get to the vote to have a Republican speaker. But it can only happen if we talk to each other and address concerns and have discussion and not accuse each other of someone being evil, if someone is not doing that.
Everyone has different experiences, and we here have to be able especially in a tight majority, to be able to come to consensus and work with each other.
And that is some of the leadership skill the next speaker needs to show, and if Kevin wants to be the one, he has to do better working with people who don't agree and getting them on board.
TAPPER: McCarthy and his allies say they have met with these rebels and given into their demands over and over and over and acquiesced on many things. Should they have given more?
SPARTZ: It's about major issues. As I said, the appropriation process and amendment process is what members can do on the floor.
This is a legitimate concern that a lot of people have. American people have problems and we have uncontrolled spending and we can do nothing about it. And I think that needs to stop.
We need to have authorization. We need to set function as a proper institution right now. We just have showed this.
And this is theater because we have real problems asking American people, and we have to be able to help process this to fund the democratic institution.
Nancy Pelosi eliminated a lot of rules. And I think a lot of those rules need to be reinstalled. It's not a dictatorship.
The speaker of the House is not a king or queen. We need to make sure there's rules and processes and they're all addressed.
I think we have some good moves. I think our rules package pushes democracy and I think it's a positive move.
But I think until they agree as a conference to something we can all support, we should not continue all of this useless waste of vote that will get us nowhere.
[14:55:04]
TAPPER: Are you going to keep voting "present" until this meeting between all the House Republicans or between McCarthy and the rebels happens, or are you going to keep voting present until there's clearly somebody who can get 218 votes?
SPARTZ: I'm going to -- hopefully, the next time we have a meeting, we'll come back with a Republican speaker.
TAPPER: All right.
SPARTZ: I think that is very important and I'm sure we will.
TAPPER: Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, Republican of Indiana, thank you so much. Good to see you again.
Coming up next, more CNN special live coverage. Chaos among House Republicans. Stay with us.
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