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CNN Live Event/Special

Donald Trump Under Arrest And Awaiting Arraignment. Aired 2- 2:30p ET

Aired April 04, 2023 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST (voiceover): That lead to each door depending on where someone's coming from. The judge comes in a different door. A jury comes in even in another door. A defendant who's incarcerated comes in at different door. The public comes in the main door. So, there are many doors to choose from depending on, for security reasons, which way that sided Mr. Trump should go.

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (voiceover): I was going to say, Anderson, just this one thing I just thinking about right here's the irony of the situation. All those -- all those rallies where the MAGA crowd chanted lock her up, lock her up, lock her up. And Donald Trump is now locked up right now at this point in time. So, it's a -- it's completely ironic and sad at the same time.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Well, one other interesting point is in a criminal case, unlike a civil case, that Mr. Trump will have to make the court appearances each one, so he will have to keep coming back to this court to face this judge for every motion practice, for every time that the case gets adjourn, whether it's for a hearing or for a status conference or for a trial. So, he -- this is -- this is a -- doors he will be walking through more multiple times.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voiceover): And, Karen, all the people in this hallway at this point. I mean, these are all court officers, police officers, maybe some secret service?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes, this looks like -- security that we can see here and potentially some press. But this looks mostly like security, as Adam said. And there were the DA staffs that went into the courtroom, and they're going to go sit at the district attorney table in the well, which is where the courtroom -- where the -- where the judge sits and where the lawyers sit and where the jury boxes and where witnesses sit.

There's a -- there's a bar that then separates that from the public in the well, which is what that area is called. There will be at least two tables, one for the prosecutors and their staff, and then one for Mr. Trump and his lawyers. There will also be room for the Secret Service.

And the court officers and the court clerks will be -- there will be a court clerk who will be sitting behind a desk and that is the person who will arraign Mr. Trump and he will -- he will be given an indictment number. So, they will say calling docket -- or I'm sorry, indictment number 12345, which will be calendar number one today on the calendar. The people of the state of New York versus Donald J. Trump.

And the clerk will read him the indictment -- the charges, he will arraign him on the charges, and ask him, Mr. Trump, how do you plead and he says guilty or not guilty. He said he will plead not guilty. And the next thing that happens is the judge asks the prosecutor whether they have anything they want to file with the defendant and serve on the court. Those could be oral notifications that they file or written filings that they can do.

And is there any other -- is there any other information that the prosecution wants to give? They also give it to the defense attorney. And then they pick a date for -- you know, for motion practice. And the case gets adjourned for motions.

And motions are the time when his lawyers would make the arguments, raised the arguments of things like the statute of limitations has passed, or as Adam Kaufmann was just saying that the federal charges that bumped this from a misdemeanor falsifying business records to a felony aren't the appropriate charges to be relied upon.

Or also in the state, you can challenge the grand jury minutes, which is something federally isn't typically done. So, there are several motions that his lawyers might choose to make.

COOPER: And, Adam Kaufmann, would -- the former president's attorneys, would they already be in the courtroom? And given that it's 2:03 and the court is supposed to begin at 2:15, is it likely that the former president's attorneys already have the counts in front of them that they already know what the indictments the former president is facing are?

ADAM KAUFMANN, FORMER PROSECUTOR, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE: I think that is likely. I would imagine they've received a copy of the indictment from the prosecutors.

They're probably going over it probably more than anything to think about what public statements they might make on the record at arraignment to sort of voice almost politically for the -- on behalf of Mr. Trump their opposition or what they perceive as the weaknesses in the case, just to get something on the record to counter the show that is really the DA's show of having this arraignment occur. And the negative that that sort of is for Mr. Trump.

COOPER: And, Kaitlan Collins, you are in the hallway, I assume next to or near where our camera is. Talk about what you're seeing and what you're hearing.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): We have not seen the former president's attorneys yet, Anderson. Obviously, we're looking for a new face that added to that team, Todd Blanche. He knows this place well. And he works in the Southern District of New York. It's a little bit chaotic and loud behind me, Anderson because I'm standing in a scrum of a still photographer. [14:05:01]

There is only one TV camera I should note that is allowed in this hallway of the 15th floor to capture the former president's arrival. We are expecting it to come through those double black doors that you see ahead of you. But there has been a lot of movement of some of the officers who are on here.

They do seem to be lining up. It does seem to be finalizing. We were -- we just had the police chief says he's coming.

COOPER: Hold on, Kaitlan, one second. Karen -- I'm sorry, Karen, who's that?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: So, those are DA staff. That is the district attorney's security, the gentleman that we just saw who just went back in. So, one question I have is will the district attorney, Alvin Bragg, actually appear in court himself?

We saw his -- the attorneys who are handling the case, Susan Hoffinger, Peter Pope, and others who are assistant district attorneys. Everyone who works in the DA's office is an Assistant District Attorney. They -- there's only one district attorney and that's Alvin Bragg and so, one question is will DA Bragg actually attend the arraignment?

He -- this is a DA who actually does go to court proceedings. He watches people on trial, not just high-profile cases. He's a very supportive District Attorney.

COOPER: OK --

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: So, that's a DA -- that's the gentleman who typically --

COOPER: Can you --

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes.

COOPER: Let me just quickly go back to Kaitlan. Kaitlan, what -- do you have something?

COLLINS: I just want to note. We were wondering which doors exactly he's going to come through. We did see Trump's body man behind those double block doors that you're looking at there that Karen was just referencing where you were seeing DA staff come in and out of. If he goes straight to the courtroom, he would come through those doors and take an immediate left -- his left.

Of course, we were told he will come to the cameras. We will see if that happens. But we did see a Trump staffer behind those doors, so we do expect the former president is in that direction.

COOPER: OK, Kaitlan, thanks. Karen?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes, so just that gentleman that you see closest to the door in a suit right there, he works for the district attorney's office. And he -- and he -- one of his -- one of the things -- actually, he worked for the New York -- he worked for the NYPD. He is the detail, but that's the DA squad.

There's a actual precinct -- police precinct that the NYPD has in the district attorney's office. It's called the DA Squad where they have detectives. And one of the roles that they play is they are the detail that provides security to the district attorney himself and -- (INAUDIBLE) --

COOPER: And obviously, that detail has been beefed up just given what the threats that are being made and have been made encouraged by -- or the arguments the former president has been making about that district attorney.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes. I mean, all the -- all DAs, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Vance, and DA Bragg, they all have police protection and a police detail. So, it's not unusual.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST (voiceover): It'll be an interesting decision by the DA does he physically appear in court. On the one hand, it's the biggest case he will ever handle and he wants to give the imprimatur of his entire office, you know, their hands. Again, there's this challenge of treating this like any other case. And it would be very rare. Look -- you know, far fewer than one percent of all cases, that the actual DA makes an actual in-person appearance.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT & INTELLIGENCE ANALYST (voiceover): Well, this district attorney does from time to time go to court. This week, he was in a courtroom for a sex crimes case that you know, he wanted to show the district attorney had an interest in. So, appearing in this courtroom would certainly as Elie says there would be a logic to it. He is the name, the voice, the face of the office, and he is the reason this case went forward.

COOPER: There would also be political calculations, both for him and for the former president's team. The former president has been obviously very critical of this district attorney. So, him, appearing in the court might play into that in some respects.

MILLER: That's right. But I -- as we had mentioned earlier today, for those of us who are just joining, he has a press conference planned essentially for immediately after this arraignment where he can for the first time, because the grand jury investigation was secret, talking about the details of this prosecution.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: So, it appears more people are going into the courtroom.

COOPER: When we see the -- when we see the former president just to let our viewers know, we're not going to be speaking. We want to let you hear what is happening in that hallway at that time. So, soon as we see the former president, we will just let the natural sound. We anticipate we are about six minutes away from when the court is supposed to start. How likely is it that it would be on time? MILLER: That is a million-dollar question on a normal day. This is not a normal day. So, assuming that the processing went on time and that the judge is expecting a former president in his courtroom at a specific time, I think we have a better chance than normal today.

[14:10:08]

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: I think this is highly choreographed and arranged, for security reasons more than anything, exactly what's happening at what time.

COOPER: The former president, where would he be at this stage now?

MILLER: He would --

COOPER: I think there's -- there is Alvin Bragg.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: There's D.A. -- there's D.A. Bragg right there.

HONIG: There's Alvin Bragg, Anderson. And I should say, I worked with him for years as a federal prosecutor across the street. He ran for this office. He's been in office for about a year.

He beat a very crowded Democratic primary here in Manhattan very narrowly, in order to win this job. He is a deeply experienced prosecutor. I've known him to be nothing but a straight shooter, an honest prosecutor, a man of integrity.

He's a trailblazer. He's the first African American man or person to be the DA of this county of Manhattan. And so, he's already carved out a place in history. This will, of course, be another part of Alvin Bragg's legacy.

And I think it is not surprising that he's making an appearance in this courtroom. I think it would be an astonishing omission if he did not. This is the most important case he will ever be part of.

And by going into the courtroom here, he's making a statement. He has to stand behind this. He's the person who the citizens of Manhattan elected to this office, he's the one whose name is on the door, he's the one whose name will be on the indictment, and this will be the biggest part of his legacy.

COOPER: Adam Kaufmann is also with us. Adam, will -- would DA Bragg be speaking during this court proceeding, do you think?

KAUFMANN: I doubt it. To me, I think he would probably have the team that is going to prosecute the case, stand up, and do the arraignment. I think there's a fine line between sort of being the face of the office and showing up to support and letting it be known that you're the guy behind the prosecution.

And maybe speaking and taking over the arraignment would be a step too far and could be construed as sort of showboating. So, my money would be that he is present and supporting but not taking an active role.

COOPER: Karen?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Alternatively, he could also say, look, Donald Trump attacks anyone who is -- does anything with respect to him. He goes after people's wives. He goes after people, spouses, families.

And I could also see Alvin Bragg saying I don't want to put my assistants who aren't politicians who aren't elected, who bring these cases without fear or favor and bring no politics into this whatsoever. I could see him wanting to shield them from that as well. But I agree with Adam, it is typically not the instance. It at least will have been discussed whether or not to do that, again, just to draw that away from his assistant DAs.

HONIG: One of the challenges that he faces here is protecting his office. Protecting the integrity of his office, the independence of his office, and the people who work for him in that office. We've already seen him start to do that in his statements in response to the threats that have come through from Donald Trump. And in response to Congress, which is trying to intervene in this and interfere in this.

And Alvin Bragg has sent a letter back to them, essentially saying, butt-out, you have no jurisdiction over us. And so, that will be another challenge. In addition to actually prosecuting this case, he has to make sure to protect his people, protect his office, protect their integrity and independence.

MILLER: And I mean, the fallout from the verbal criticisms that -- or the written criticisms that Donald Trump has made, the verbal criticisms that he's made, whether on social media or to the press has been -- there's about six threats to District Attorney Bragg, his first assistant and the judge in this case.

And I've read through some of those threats that include extraordinary promises of violence and threats of violence and suggestions of violence. So, I think showing up in this courtroom is very important to Alvin Bragg to say I am not -- I am not hiding from anything or anyone staff here.

COOPER: Just two minutes now from when the court is -- (INAUDIBLE). We don't know if it will start on time or not. Look, the judge has hit that gavel, and the court is in session, Karen.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes. So, once that happens, the clerk will call the case into the calendar. The clerk sits in the well behind the desk off to the side. And the clerk will call the case into the -- to the record.

There'll be a court reporter sitting there taking down all the words that are said, typing in into a stenographer -- a stenography machine. And the clerk will call the case into the record. The case will have an indictment number and they'll say calling the indictment number XYZ.

[14:15:00]

COOPER: Look -- by the way, I'm sorry to interrupt. I -- of course, I should have asked you before. If the person -- his attorney -- assuming the former president's attorneys have the indictments in front of them, have they already -- do you think they've already -- are they able to be in communication with the former president or does the former president have his phone?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes.

COOPER: Like, does he have his phone taken away from him or anything?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: That's a --

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I mean he -- an ordinary defendant on a normal arrest, they would have what, everything, their phone, every -- keys, whatever taken from them?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes.

MILLER: Yes.

HONIG: There's have to have had a chance to actually sit down with Donald Trump and go through the indictment with him because he's going to enter a plea. And so, in order to enter a plea, he has to know what he's pleading to. In fact, the judge typically will ask, have you had a chance to review this indictment with your attorney? Before the judge takes the plea.

KAUFMANN: They may well be meeting in one of the back rooms behind those double doors right now. I mean, there's conference rooms, and there's -- you know, there are places for the council to meet with their clients. So, that could be what's going on now for all -- for all we know.

COOPER: So, that would explain why we may not -- why we have not seen the former president's attorneys entering the courtroom. We've now seen the prosecution team. We've seen the district attorney make -- opening through those double doors and turning left going into the courtroom. We have not seen obviously, the former president or his legal team at this point entering the courtroom.

HONIG: That's right, Anderson. And it could take a while. If there are 30-plus counts in this indictment, as we've reported, a lawyer would want to go through all of them with Donald Trump. And that could take time.

And he may be angry. He may have questions. He may want to talk it through. And so, we're already a little bit past 2:15 but that can take some time. And so, you know, we'll have to wait and see how much longer it takes. But a 30-plus count indictment is a long indictment.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Plus, if there is that conspiracy charge that Adam Kaufmann was talking about earlier, that could be pages and pages long. That is the speaking indictment Adam was talking about which will have a lot of language from a long period of time and lots of elements to it and acts that may not -- that wouldn't be there in the other 30-plus charges of falsifying a business record.

So, they would want to go through all the facts because it will also give an indication of what was the evidence that was presented to the grand jury. Because any facts that are in the indictment are facts that were given to the 23 grand jurors who sat and listened to this case since January. And they were all voted on by those 23 grand jurors.

So, the copy of this indictment that we will see, all of the elements in there, you will see that the -- that is the evidence that was presented to the grand jury, and they voted on each and every one of those.

COOPER: So, would the former president see the evidence that is behind those charges?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: It --

HONIG: Not -- well --

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Well, go ahead.

HONIG: Not at this moment. He would see the actual indictment. But within that 45 or so day period, prosecutors would have to turn over what we call discovery, which is essentially their entire file.

And it's important to understand this. In criminal practice, prosecutors, state and federal across this country, have an affirmative obligation to turn over all of their evidence, including evidence -- especially evidence which may be helpful to the defendant, which may suggest that the defendant is innocent. People sometimes call that Brady evidence.

But that is an important part of the job of being a prosecutor. He is owed that evidence as part of discovery, which will be within 45 days or so typically, under the state system.

COOPER: And, Adam, it -- would a normal defendant be given as much time as they needed in order to confer with their attorneys to go over the charges against them if the court was supposed to start at 2:15?

KAUFMANN: I mean not -- normally, it moves pretty quickly, and you're sort of on the judge's schedule and you move -- when the case is called, you're ready to go. You know, again, unusual circumstance. We don't know how long Mr. Trump has been possibly meeting with his counsel to go over the indictment.

You know, in state -- in state court, there's just a lot of cases to be called. So, things sort of move a lot more quickly than they tend to move in federal court. Arraignments are quicker, everything tends to move a lot more quickly, and a lot more volume in state court.

COOPER: But --

KAUFMANN: You know, one thing --

COOPER: I think -- sorry, go ahead, Adam.

KAUFMANN: One thing I'm wondering -- sorry.

COOPER: No, go ahead.

KAUFMANN: What I used to keep thinking about, Karen was speaking to that sort of idea of a conspiracy and a speaking indictment. I really -- I'm trying to think -- I'm sort of racking my brain. I'm trying to think what the -- what the conspiracy would be. A conspiracy to do what?

Because, you know, unless it's a financial crime, there's really no state conspiracy to violate a federal election law. And so, it'll be interesting. Again, I think we're all in the same position of waiting to see. But whether that 30-count indictment is again 30 counts of falsifying business records or something more interesting.

[14:20:01]

HONIG: Anderson, this indictment could have an awful lot of narrative detail. That is in the prosecutors' prerogative. Prosecutors write their own indictments. And I assure you, Alvin Bragg understands just how much attention will be on this case.

And this is the debut. This is when we in the public get and scrutinize their case. And so, if I'm in that position, I'm putting in as much evidence and as much detail as I can.

And another thing I'm doing is trying to refer to specific pieces of evidence. For example, if there are important quotes, in texts, in e- mails, and documents, I would put that in that indictment so that we in the public and the media can see that.

And so, again, this could be quite a lengthy document. We -- Alyssa knows Donald Trump better than any of us. I mean, if he's being read page upon page of accusation against him, I'm not sure he's the type of guy who would just sit there and nod and say, let's get this over with. He may have something to say to his lawyers.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: I think the other reason you would put it in as well is so that it -- you get to introduce that evidence at trial. You don't -- if it's not in there, the defense attorney could make the argument that this is -- this is a prior bad act. This is an uncharged bad act. And so, it's overly -- its probative value is outweighed by its prejudicial effect.

And so, you want to put it in there to make sure that you can get that evidence in at trial. If there -- if Adam's right and there is no conspiracy because there's no object crime -- there's no crime that they agreed to commit that counts.

Although I think there is -- if Adam's right, I think that the district attorney will also file a statement of facts in this case so that the DA's office, unlike Donald Trump is really bound by what they can talk about. All your -- all your speaking should be done in court and it has to be about things that have been done on the record. It's actually inappropriate for them to -- and it can be an ethical violation to talk about a case and to talk about something that is not in the court record. And so, I think the DA's office will want to put as much as possible into the record so that it can be -- they can talk about it publicly. And so, I think if we don't have a speaking indictment, per se, with a conspiracy charge, we will at least have a statement of fact filed with this indictment.

COOPER: Is it clear to you, Karen, at what point we and our viewers will learn what the counts are? I mean, is it -- when they come out of the judge's mouth, is it something that's released moments before?

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: So, there's different ways you can receive it. It'll be -- I'm sure that the district attorney's office will send it out publicly the minute it's unsealed, and it'll be available for --

COOPER: And it gets unsealed, what, when the judge speaks, or --

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes, at the arraignment is when it is unsealed. And this is -- this is done by statute. So, if there -- if somebody is just arrested and then the case is presented to the grand jury, which is actually what mostly happens in New York City with most felonies in Manhattan, to --

(CROSSTALK)

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: -- to proceed with these cases, typically you make an arrest and then an indictment. But in long-term investigations, where you're in the grand jury and the indictment comes first, the law actually makes -- has that indictment. That's called an NA indictment or a no-arrest indictment. And the law provides that that indictment is sealed until the arraignment and until it's an -- or unsealed by a judge.

So, that's why this particular indictment is unsealed but others might not be before the Supreme Court arraignment. And Supreme Court, by the way, is the lower trial court in New York State. It's the lowest-level trial court. It's not an appellate court.

So, this is where they are right now. They are in the Manhattan criminal court building. It's the name of the building. And in the criminal court building, you hear both felonies and misdemeanors. And the felonies are heard in Manhattan Supreme Court. And that's where they are right now.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR (voiceover): And this is presumably the first time that the former president is you know, reading the indictment and actually seeing what the grand jury had voted on. And I have to imagine having briefed him previously, whether it was you know, news outlets reporting allegations or legal documents that we've received, he's somebody who's going to want to go through all of it.

He's somebody who's going to want to push back and explain to his lawyers how he wants to respond to it, even though that's not part of this specific process. So, this could go on for an amount of time knowing that Donald Trump is going to want to go through each of these allegations and be prompt with his attorneys.

URBAN: It's also be -- I'll just say, it's also be interesting here if he come -- if he does come out and speak, what he's going to say? I mean, it's going to be incredible that --

COPPER: He will -- he will know what the indictments are against him.

URBAN: Right. Yes. We won't ever have had that opportunity to hear it. He'll be -- you know if it's -- if it's expansive, it's more than the four corners of the document. I wonder what he says if it's -- if it's what he expects, how does he -- how does he respond?

[14:25:02]

HONIG: But the fact that Alvin Bragg has called a press conference for later today, I think it's 3:30, tells me that he's going to put detail in this --

URBAN: Well, he's got -- he wants to try to control the narrative before Trump gets back to Mar-a-Lago, right?

HONIG: Sure. It's one of the -- it's one of the many advantages the prosecutors have. You get to go first. You get to lodge the allegation.

But when any prosecutor, any DA, or U.S. attorney, or Attorney General stands in front of the microphones, it is universally observed that you cannot speak about anything that's not on the record. That's not in the indictment. That hasn't been said in court.

Now, prosecutors know how to do this. Prosecutors are aware of that restriction. And so sometimes, we will put more detail in an indictment for specifically this purpose.

But I think that all indications are that there will be quite a bit of detail in this document. And that's why 2:15 is already not holding and it may be a bit.

VAN JONES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR (voiceover): I'm very curious to see how Alvin Bragg acquits himself. He's been talked about. He's been frankly you know demonized. The people have tried to make him the issue. And I know, you know --

HONIG: Yes.

JONES: -- yes. But I'm curious if you're right for him.

HONIG: Well, let me give you this insight into Alvin Bragg. He is not a big ego. We sometimes assume -- you know, think of prosecutors as being loud and pounding the podium and especially someone who runs for office in an extremely challenging district like this.

Alvin Bragg is a soft-spoken person. He's very effective in court, I think we'll see he's very effective behind the podium. He's determined, and he has a backbone. But he does not fit the stereotype of the prosecutor in a lot of ways. He is not a fire-breather. He's careful, he's deliberate, and he's modest. And I think we'll see that when he -- when he -- when he takes the podium in an hour or maybe a little more than that.

MILLER: I mean, he's certainly different. He's certainly been controversial. He ran on a progressive platform of criminal justice reform.

And on his first day in office, after being elected, there was a controversial memo called day one. And it said, you know, from here on out, the office policy is to not to prosecute these kinds of cases or those kinds of cases, basically, many low-level crimes, unless certain conditions were met, whether they were violent crimes. Not to seek bail in cases. And a bail reform law was on the books that was new at the same time.

So, he kind of made his entrance saying, not -- here's all the things I'm going to go after but here's all the things we're not going to do. And by doing that, I think what he was saying was, I am going to be a leader in criminal justice reform in New York City. This put him on the bad side of many police officers, some other prosecutors, a lot of politicians. So, he's stirred up a hornet's nest.

This case is on the far other side of that -- of that universe, which is it's a white-collar crime. It's a crime that's politically controversial, and it's a crime that is singular, in that its defendant is who it is.

COOPER: Let's see --

HONIG: Oh, and there's Todd Blanche right there. That is -- that is Donald Trump's new lawyer.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: That's Susan Necheles and Joe Tacopina.

COOPER: That's the -- that's the Trump defense team.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: Yes.

COOPER: So, obviously, we're about to see the former president.

FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO: That tells me that we're probably back there with him talking to him because he -- I think he's back there.

HONIG: And, Anderson, on the topic of Alvin Bragg and I was colleagues with him for a long time, also important in his history -- and we're looking out for the president here. I'll be quiet with --

COOPER: Actually, let's just focus on what's about to occur.

HONIG: Yes.

COOPER: Alyssa, it's very possible -- we don't know how much the former president -- let's just watch.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Let's just watch. Former President Trump entering the courthouse to hear the indictments read against him. An extraordinary moment in history, John.

MILLER: Yes. And, you know, there was some reporting that he would come through that door as we watch the replay, and come to the cameras and say something, and then go into court. Clearly, that is not in the plan anymore. The question is now -- and he's currently again technically in custody. So, he's got to follow instructions. But the question is now after he is released, which is anticipated from custody at the end of this hearing, will he come to these cameras and make a statement then?

COOPER: Kaitlan Collins, who's -- you're in the hall. I believe that was you yelling out a question. What did you see from your vantage point?

COLLINS: Yes. We were trying to summon him obviously over here. We -- to just give you a sense of what you can't see on camera, we're probably about 50 feet away from that door where former President Trump just entered. He took a left. He went into the same courtroom where you saw his attorneys go in.